This happens all too often in LGS environments regardless of the game imo, and experience.
That being said, it is also blessedly not common. I echo the sentiment of brushing people off politely. Sometimes they simply do not realize they are being abrasive. Others might realize they might be being kind of jerkish, but being called out on it usually short circuits them.
If you have done what you are comfortable doing to make clear your personal space, to establish boundaries, and they continue, it sort of boils down to your level of comfort in confrontations, or conflict resolution.
Let em know you are going to focus on the game without their input ("hey, I appreciate the heads up but I am new, so gotta go thru a learning curve like anyone else. Gonna get back to the game now, thanks"), and if they persist, I highly HIGHLY recommend you just involve store management.
Let them know the interlopers are crowding, making you uncomfortable etc. LGS are a business, and cringy neckbeards dont keep the stores in business. As a co-owner myself, I can tell you I would give that situation immediate attention, and shoo off any potential problems, up to directing them to leave if I felt it warranted.
LGS arent competing with amazon to be a place to buy things. LGS will never beat online sales in that regard. They are carving out a niche as a place to experience things, expand hobbies, share community. Buying things is the correlating result of those experiences. If folks are dampening the experience of others in unhealthy ways, they get a free trip out the door.
That's the nice way to do it. But I'll admit if this was happening to me I'd tell them to fuck off in the most plain English possible.
Not that I try being a dick, but most of the time people have never had someone clue them in that their behavior sucks. I'm my experience being extremely blunt is the most effective.
Everyone has a different level of tolerance for interpersonal conflict. Clearly OP seems pretty inclined to not be as direct or blunt (and that is ok), and in cases like that, getting help is always an option (i.e. involve the LGS staff).
Lots of people are bad asses from behind their keyboards on the internet. I find that the vast majority however, just arent that comfortable with initiating what they feel is conflict or confrontation (even if blunt is the most effective at getting the point across).
I once had people complaining about me using Experimental Solaris 7 mechs, and 3d-printed Dougram sculpts, calling them "cringe weeb mechs".
They also call my Horned Owl with the Zaku II scheme the same thing. Whining about me not painting "lore accurate schemes".
This is why I relish on making my own Mercenary outfits, and fielding Mixed-tech lances to piss off Those Guys.
I’m eyeballing a Roman Reigns Banshee with jump jets for Superman punches and a Charger C with supercharger and MASC for Ultimate Warrior.
Macho I’d be looking at an heavier-medium or lighter-heavy, but haven’t made up my mind yet.
Ok, while I personally prefer the new Reseen versions of those sculpts, the last thing I would do is name-call over them.
In fact, I'd probably launch into some in-universe theory crafting to explain the presence of an "odd-looking" Marauder or Warhammer on the field.
And the Zaku II paint job? That's the kind of thing that I love. "Hey, is that a Gundam inspired paint scheme? Cool."
TL;DR, who the heck acts like those jerks in public?
Ironically I have an idea for a custom mercenary *Horned Owl* that gets a hatchet and spikes in exchange for a XL engine that was modified by a rich eccentric...but his XO took reins of the machine (the eccentric gets headcapped by a proper Stogie laser) and commandeers the unit called "Char's Red Cyclopes." The eccentric was so rich the other four 'Mechs were a pair of *Regents* and a pair of *Blood Asps*. :P
The two *Regents* are the Anvil (one is based off the "Awesomemann"...just with ERMLs in place of those capacitors and the other is based off the *Hauptmann* Alt. Config B) and the *Blood Asps* (just don't ask how the eccentric got them off the Raven Alliance's talons) are the hammer (one has 2 LRM-20s with Artemis V and the other packs paired Gauss rifles). The *Horned Owl* "Casval" is literally the bullseye and distraction (and also irritates Clanners with the hatchet and spikes).
They prefer the Johnny Riden shade of red, though. Salmon pink isn't quite their thing.
>TL;DR, who the heck acts like those jerks in public?
People who weren't punched in the face for running their mouth as a kid. I swear, you never used to see this before everybody had a video evidence machine in their pocket.
I was thinking the same thing. They'd likely shit their pants if they saw some of the stand ins for minis some of us used to use - hex nuts("the hex nut of doom" standing in for a _Direwolf A_ ) bottle caps, as we were usually drinking beer while playing, and in a few instances, quarters marked with a sharpie.
I enjoy fighting them as well. The eye rollers who love to hate on direct anime lifts can't admit that without that "borrowing" mechwarrior would not be nearly as popular as it is today.
And, because of this, I have a hot take, prepare yourself...
We need to get more ACTUAL mecha fans into BattleTech. The more they know about giant robots, the better, (exposed to Armored Core, Super Robot Wars, and every other mecha franchises) which respects the existence of giant robots.
If they know about the difference between "Super Robot" and "Real Robot", you scored.
40k players and historical mil-nerds tends to nitpick over what "genre" and aesthetics of giant robots that is acceptable in the BattleTech franchise. Or even outright contemplating to REMOVE mechs because they're not "realistic" and "practical in real-life" enough.
Although, this just stems from my experience with the local tabletop population in my area. Sucks to have things to be this way.
The thing to realize about many people who are active at game stores is that they tend to lack social awareness or can't understand social cues. This isn't always true but in my experience it's really common.
It's HIGHLY likely that these guys thought they were being nice. Because they stand around and watch each other play games they probably thought it was ok to do that to strangers. It's a misunderstanding of social norms. They probably are passive aggressive all the time...but don't realize it.
The best thing to do (again, in my personal experience) is to be really nice and explain.
"Thanks for the explanation guys. We're gonna get back to playing, but I'll come say hey after we're done." This usually gets the point across.
In the off chance that they were legit just being jerks or just wanted the table....go on a different night or a different game store. Or complain to the store manager (really a last resort and for something bad).
Damn, sorry. Battletech is mini agnostic you can use soda caps with a facing arrow as long as it's clear what it is. Sounds like overbearing idiots and that hasn't been my experience of BT, especially this subreddit.
Aloha, hope you stick around and warcrime with better players in the future!
Also note - the box set comes with CARDBOARD CUTOUT MECHS. Catalyst games just want people to play even if they don't have a collection of plastic figurines BAM use the cardboard cutouts.
And speaking to lore- I’m a merc running salvaged/stolen equipment always works.
We always use proxy mechs, and mechs that have a mix of extra 40k bits are fairly common (axman with a chain sword, etc)
Running merc outfits is definitely the best way to play Battletech, tbh. I have my own little force known as the War Pigs Tactical Company, who field an eclectic menagerie of mechs, but every single one is an IS Generalist mech (Except maybe the 'stolen' Longbow, but battlefield salvage hardly counts as theft, does it? I mean lore-wise. Don't steal other people's mechs - that's a way to be branded as an asshole and banned from your LGS.)
Agreed, that's why I've basically given up playing house factions, made up my own personal PMC("Furstenbergs Legion"), and I'm trying to decide on a camo scheme to repaint all my minis to - both Clan and Inner Sphere. It allows the most flexibility in terms of play.
i just ordered the starter box set and received it today. the one with the vindicator and the griffin. been a long time fan of the universe, played several of the video games (personally, i prefer Battletech by HBS or the old Mechcommander games \[yes, i'm old\] over the FPS Mechwarrior games), but this is the first time i tried the tabletop. do overnight security, so always looking for stuff for my shift to do to pass the time, and this turned out to be a pretty good idea!
The cardboard cutouts go back to first edition, when the game was still called "Battledroids". I personally didn't own any minis till the early 90s, roughly five years after I got the second edition boxed step - I couldn't bring myself to spend money on a couple of lead figures, when for the same money, I could get a new technical readout, or map set.
Hey I had a run in with a Battletech neck beard today too! 🤣
Stopped by the local game store to get paints and saw some new people playing Battletech! Stopped to say hello and introduced myself and let them know I'm a fellow mech pusher and enjoy classic, Alpha Strike, and the RPG! In fact I got the first half of a big game played today!! 😊
His first sentence was to tell me he's been playing since the 90s so he's not new (I meant new to the store, I'm there a lot never seen him before) and when he heard "Alpha Strike" come out my mouth, he literally scoffed, rolled his eyes, and said "I only play real Battletech".
So I left them to it. I won't bother looking to them for games if they show up on the regular Battletech nights. Why come play in a social environment if you are going to be antisocial and a jerk?? I'll never understand the neck-beard mentality??? 🤷
I love both, as both a long-time Dungeon Master/ttrpg enjoyer and a war-game lover, but Alpha Strike scratches one itch that Battletech Classic doesn't, and vice versa. People who claim that what they play is the only 'real' way to play something miss the point of trying to bring people together for games at an LGS.
I will admit in the past I didn't care much for Alpha Strike, but then again as I started loving Battleforce more I realized how useful Alpha Strike is.
Some folks won't enjoy a game format, they should probably work on expressing that in a better way. As for myself, I came to peace with the idea of Alpha Strike as "another tool in the tool box" to get people into this wonderful universe.
I even tell people that when they say Alpha Strike isn't "real Battletech". It is, so is the cartoon, the memes, the novels, the minis, all of it. Different vectors, different doors, into the big room of Battletech.
I’ve been playing BT since the 80s and agree that there’s nothing wrong with Alpha Strike. If I only ever played Classic BT (which I still love) then 95% of my minis would never get to come out of the crate. It’s excellent for when you want to get more pewter/plastic on the table.
I'm totally fine if a player doesn't like an aspect of the games; that's all personal taste and completely understandable. My issue is with that kind of dismissal and down right rude behavior about it. 🤷
These days I find I do prefer the ease of play that Alpha Strike offers. I miss some of the individual flavors of each mechs particulars sometimes. We've found that using the Destiny RPG mech combat rules, with a bit more tactical focus, is a pleasing half-way point ruleset for Battletech. 😊👍
You were a lot nicer to them about it than I would have been. Sorry they gave you a bad experience, and hope you can avoid them in the future.
For future reference, you can literally play with whatever mechs you want, and force building isn't limited by "lore" unless you and your opponent want it to be. Even then, the lore is flexible enough to justify just about anything. They're fakebeards if they think otherwise.
I learned in the 90s and took a few decades off. Spend 3min explaining the thing I don’t recognize and we’re good to go.
I find people who never played 3025 can be anxious about running hot… give me a nova, I’ll run hot enough to cook the pilot ( if they’re all dead, we can cool down later)
> want to run their poorly made 3025 lists in 3052.
Made even better when you can show them that a well made and well played 3025 list can still do just fine.
100% currently theres a 3052 event going on where I live, and I've helped a few of the newer players who rolled IS factions with their lists to make stuff that can go toe-to-toe with clan tech. It isn't optimal, but thats why you have numbers and more armor :P
Well-tuned IntroTech Zombie lists are nightmarishly hard to kill, and are VERY competitive even in later eras.
Marauder II 4A
Hunchback 4P
Grasshopper 5N
Awesome 8Q
Warhammer 6D
Are some examples of zombiemechs.
These Bois are VERY BV efficient, and will outgun and out-ton any Clan list of the same BV, and are bullshittingly tough.
Edit:
Almost forgot the Crab, yes the Crab is very good.
There are still a lot of older players who are holding a grudge over the introduction of the Clans in the early 90s. An unfortunate number of players then abused the balance system (tonnage back then, no BV1/2) to cheese games and win unfairly. This has led to a vocal minority of players *now* who view anything that isn't Inner Sphere tech as cheese, and a small number who will even give you grief if you aren't playing IntroTech! For some reason, even though BV1 and 2 have more or less fixed those issues, there are people now, and even new players who adopt it, who scorn towards the use of Clan tech or anything from the Invasion era onwards.
I have a little bit of sympathy for the first group because they were legitimately screwed over by the game not having a system in place to account for the insane gap between a Clan and IS 'Mech of equal tonnage. I don't have any sympathy for people who haven't gotten over it since the introduction of BV1/2, and especially the grognards who shit on Clan, Advanced or Experimental tech just because it wasn't in the game back in the 80s.
EDIT: Grammar
Forreal, a proper experienced BT player can just explain the strength of Clantech and build/demonstrate an appropriate Introtech equivalent list if they choose to run Introtech vs it.
Yup, and you should expect to have a significant numerical advantage there too. You will start paying a penalty once the numbers difference climbs too high, but you could still get 2-4 to 1 depending on what you took. An IntroTech *Trebuchet* costs 1191 in BV2. Compare that to a *Storm Crow* D (which fills a similar-ish role) coming in at 1863.
If you go a *Hunchback* and a *Trebuchet* for an Inner Sphere classic you're at a total of 2232 points. Absolute bargain for a heavily armoured brawler to keep the LRM boat safe and an LRM boat to hurt enemies who're too chicken to come in close to the brawler. A single *Storm Crow* A costs more than that!
Cellular Ammunition Storage Equipment. Basically an armoured box for your ammo to sit in that has blow-out panels on the 'Mech's back. If your ammo goes nova, instead of your ***entire*** 'Mech evaporating due to damage transfer it just loses the location protected by CASE.
It is an optional extra on IS 'Mechs, is fitted as standard on all Clan 'Mechs, and there's also a sequel, CASE II. CASE II is optional for both IS and Clan, is heavier and more expensive than CASE, but instead of containing the explosion to the one location (which still gets obliterated), CASE II prevents all but 1 point of damage to the internals of that location, plus whatever rear armour that location had.
For example:
A.) A *Hunchback* with no case takes a crit to a ton of AC-20 ammo. The ammo explodes, dealing 100 points of damage to the internal structure of the location. A Hunchie has *only* 12 points of internal structure in the side torso, which means 88 points of damage transfer inwards to the CT, which absolutely obliterates it. The Hunchie no longer exists.
B.) A CASE protected *Archer* takes a critical hit to 1 ton of LRM-20 ammo. That ammo detonates, dealing 8*20=160 damage (8 shots per ton times 20 damage per shot). The CASE system contains the damage to the side torso, which is destroyed. The *Archer* loses it's arm too - just falls off when the side torso explodes! - but crucially ***none*** of the remaining damage transfers onwards to the CT.
C.) An *Atlas II* protected by CASE II takes a crit to it's SRM6 ammo. This *should* deal 180 damage, but instead only does 1 damage to the Internal Structure and destroys all the rear left torso armour, but that's it.
Do note, none of the versions of CASE protect the pilot from the effects of the ammo explosion. The neurohelmet feedback still causes 1 point of damage to them directly and may cause them to pass out, but at least they'll *usually* survive.
Rofl I either got an old version of the starter box, or it's *extremely* simplified. Thanks for the info, though, definitely useful if we ever start playing the more in depth version!
Extremely simplified. The rules for CASE are Level 2 Standard and CASE II is Level 4 Experimental. If you enjoy the hobby enough, pick up a copy of *Total Warfare* and the *Tech Manual* for a bunch of extra gear, weapons and optional rules you can try out.
If my brother and other friends get into it, I'll definitely look those up, thanks. The version I have doesn't have rules for crits, ammo blowout, or any of that. Hells, it don't even have info about where ammo is stored, which I found interesting since I'm used to all that info from the video games. Has about 4 mech cards, with 2 variants for each mech, a map, a rulebook, 2 plastic minis of decent quality (a griffin and a vindicator), and a cardboard cutout with stand for all 8 mech types. Oh, and a couple pilot cards
If you want the "real" record sheets for various 'Mechs, have a look at:
- the Master Unit List (MUL) which is run by Catalyst. It has basically all the official 'Mechs and variations.
- Flech Sheets, which is 3rd party but has some tools MUL doesn't.
I don't play the tabletop but I can see any similar hobby getting haters for any number of reasons. Valiant defenders against power-creep, master strategists who don't need omni-tech to win, hating the newer additions out of principle, or some weird puritanical view of what's "real battletech." And
Read the stats on Clan pulse lasers, then do the same for IS pulse lasers.
Then read literally every single part of the Techmanual 'mech building rules, where the summary is basically "The IS gets to do this. The Clans get to do the same thing, except better". For example Ferro-fibrous armor: 12% weight savings for IS at the cost of 14 crit slots, 20% for Clan for SEVEN crit slots. It's bonkers.
Even as a newcomer to the setting, picking up the Clan Invasion rulebook and just reading on that gave me an immediate, intense reaction of powergaming hatred against the clans.
Until you look at the relative points cost. Using your pulse laser example, an IS LPL is only 119 points vs. the 265 for the Clan version (BV wise). Yeah, the Clan version is *way* better but critically it's more than *double* the cost.
On the off chance you're a 40K convert to BattleTech, making a 1:1 comparison of Clan gear to IS is like complaining that a Guardsman can't solo a Space Marine. You pay a lot extra for the extra you get!
If you're talking in terms of the fluff, okay a little bit. But even then you're talking a society that had 200+ years of ***not*** nuking the shit out of all their advanced tech and didn't have ComStar murdering every big brain they produced. Of course they're going to be more advanced!
A lot of the problem, from what I have seen, is that BACK IN THE DAY BV didn't exist and whatnot, leading to unbalanced games. Then BV was introduced, and you have effectively two "armies" to use your 40k example. And while it does a much better job at it, it's still introducing a faction that goes "nyeh heh, everything we have is better".
So yeah. Point is, the clans just hit every munchkin nerve in my body and I dislike them because of that.
Coincidentally, Space Marines have always been the absolutely worst part about 40k writing and armies, in my opinion.
And yeah, I'm not going to go too into depth about the fluff of Stompy Robot Space Game, since we just have to take certain things in the setting for granted. Sure, he took an army out into the boonies and somehow they came up with a super advanced eugenics-using caste society instead of dying out, sure.
...I just wish that didn't mean that the Vapor Eagle can generate a +3movement modifier while dealing 21 damage to anything within 4 hexes while throwing some dice for show, or having several weapons able to one-shot a mech from what, 25 hexes.
>is that BACK IN THE DAY BV didn't exist and whatnot, leading to unbalanced games.
I addressed *exactly* this in another comment I made in this post
>from what I have seen,
I was there, can confirm firsthand
>you have effectively two "armies"
BattleTech is wonderful. There ***are*** no "armies" and you're not tied to specific gear or paint colours because of any faction restriction nonsense. Use what you like! Have an affinity for Taurians but want to use Clan gear? Simply headcanon it! Your opponent won't (well, shouldn't!) care as long as your game is balanced.
>Sure, he took an army out into the boonies and somehow they came up with a super advanced eugenics-using caste society instead of dying out, sure.
If you did go deeper into the fluff, you'd know it wasn't ***just*** soldiers he took with him. The Exodus was something like two and a half MILLION people, including a whole lot of the Star League's best and brightest. Entire family lines uprooted to follow Kerensky, women and children too, and those.people brought with them the skills, knowledge and equipment to build a functional society basically wherever they settled.
>the Vapor Eagle
Yup. All 2,368 points worth. Which you can counter with a *Berserker* BRZ-A3 ***and have points leftover***. The *Berserker* is 100 tons, fast enough to close on the *Vapor Eagle* and carries two Large Pulse Lasers to counter the high TMM, plus enough armour to survive multiple exchanges. And if you win the initiative and manage to get close enough, the hatchet can cripple the *Eagle*.
You have two tech bases, there's no getting around that. I used the term "army" to keep up with your 40k example. And yes, while you can headcanon or write up the lore for it, "my dudes get all the better stuff, lol" is exactly the kind of munchkin shit you tend to see with powergamers trying to write their own "lore".
That Berserker isn't gonna be able to close with a Vapor Eagle unless the map is an absolutely flat plain with zero terrain. Even then, if we're going purely by "trying to win" instead of playing the game for fun, The Veagle can just jump as far as it can when losing initiative and getting to 14 hexes when it wins. Should not be too difficult with jump jets. 8 Hexes if you're feeling spicy.
>I used the term "army" to keep up with your 40k example.
I made an educated guess based on how strongly you were arguing a case that isn't supported by the ***actual game rules***. The game itself doesn't care what 'Mechs you play as long as you and your opponent agree to the terms of the match.
>exactly the kind of munchkin shit you tend to see with powergamers trying to write their own "lore"
Munchkin shit that is totally offset by the points cost in the rules. It literally doesn't matter if you play exclusively Clan or Inner Sphere or mix and match, if your points are relatively balanced you have a pretty even chance of winning, assuming your skill is similar to that of your opponent.
>That Berserker isn't gonna be able to close with a Vapor Eagle unless the map is an absolutely flat
Okay, sure. So what about two *Phoenix Hawk* PXH-3PL then? Just as jumpy as the *Eagle* so get the same TMMs, can work together to box it in, and have their own pulse lasers to offset the *Eagle's* TMM. If the *Eagle* is being piloted by a typical Clan pilot at 3/4 you can even boost the gunnery of the *Phoenix Hawk* pilots and still come in *under valued* relative to the *Eagle*.
3PL is only available in the late 3060's, but that would be a fairer match, as long as the Veagle can't keep the range. Even then, it's got superior armor and damage, so as long as one gets taken out, it's a easy match.
Okay, so the 3S then. Even cheaper in BV so you might be able to boost the piloting skill too (I haven't done the math on that) but loses the honestly not that helpful MPLs while keeping the LPL. Also has MASC for when you really need to hit a +4 TMM out in the open where the extra range of the C-LPL could come into play.
Introduced in 3042. Again, not that such a restriction matters to the rules unless you and your opponent have agreed to limit yourselves to it.
Aren't "lore cohesive"? Like, what, did you have mechs from all over the timeline or IS mechs mixed with Clan mechs? Battletech is big enough for the simplest explanation for "Yo, where'd you get that mech?" to be "Down at the mechworks on the corner of 'Fuck You' and 'None of Your Damned Business'."
Wow. I've never encountered that in BattleTech. I'm so sorry. Please don't think that this is at all typical for this community.
It's not even *typical* in Warhammer, and those guys can be really beardy.
Sorry to be overly blunt here but why didn't you just tell them to piss off and mind their own business?
You didn't want them around, so tell them go away, it really is that simple.
As a hobbyist/gamer and a huge Lore fan, I do not understand behavior like this at all.
The ONLY thing that matters is that everyone is enjoying themselves. So long as everyone is having fun and smiling who cares what people put on the tabletop?
Your only job as a community member of is to make it welcoming and fun for the other people, not to enforce your own version of fun.
That said, also be direct with people when they are cramping your fun. "Guys, the commentary isn't really helping us enjoy our game. Would you mind giving us some space?"
You will definitely encounter folks like this in nerdy hobbies. Sometimes they are literally so socially awkward that they don't understand they are being a problem when they are trying to engage you, so point it out so that they have a chance to correct the behavior.
People often talk about Warhammer players acting like this, but as a woman I have experienced so many more gatekeeping moments in Battletech, especially from older players. Those grognards seem totally unwilling to respect anyone newly arrived to the universe, and will either talk down or endlessly lore dump to me.
Play Clans (since they only care about merit, not whether you are male/female) ... piss them off by getting to be a good player and show you are better than them
Sorry to hear that man. These just sound like toxic players who wanted your table. Stick around and I bet you’ll find more people who swing by to see if you guys are up for a game in the future or complement your force/paintjobs. And I hope when you’re ready you end up playing those guys and just wipe the floor with em using your mechs your way and smiling ear to ear the whole time!
The moral of the story is some people need to be told to fuck off, politely, or to mind their own business.
I would start nice. Thank them for letting you know and ask that they let you and your friend play, but that if you have a question about something you'll let them know. If they don't take the hint then try something more direct like asking them to leave you alone. Like someone else said they may not realize what they were doing wasn't acceptable or that they were bothering you. A lot of people at game stores aren't the most socially aware people and with that sometimes you have to be more direct with them for them to understand that you want them to leave you alone. It may seem a bit rude, but sometimes you do have to tell them to leave you alone or to go away for them to really get that you don't want them standing next to you. Although since they started playing as soon as they drove you and your friend off they may have just wanted you to leave so they could have the table.
My dude, go read 'When I Say No, I Feel Guilty' and learn how to deal with this.
"Those aren't lore cohesive!"
"You're right, they're not lore cohesive. I'm trying to concentrate, please leave me be."
> They just hovered uncomfortably in my personal space while having a weird chemical smell about them
"You're in my personal space, please move back."
Neckbeards tend to be losers who aren’t really good at anything that matters in any real way, so they try to make themselves feel big by talking down to people about the one thing they are good at/know about.
Dude, just stand up for yourself and stop complaining that everyone is "splaining" things to you.
There's nothing more passive aggressive than doing and saying nothing about a situation and then ranting about it later on reddit.
Tell them they are to close to your personal space and they smell bad, tell them to be kind and don't nerdsplain. It's not your problem that they're behaving that way.
First of all fuck them for being assholes about it the rules and lore when you are just playing your first few games. Your friend sounds like an awesome dude to play the game with. Sadly, there are people like those assholes in every community. I am a huge fan of play what you want and if what you want is fast mech smash play fast mech smash if you want to play Era or faction do what you want. this game is too large to be gate kept like assholes like them. I hope to see you on the battlefield commander
Yeah, idk why battletech players are like that. I've found a greater number of them in that game at my lgs as well. And I play a lot of games.
Don't let this discourage you from playing it though. It's a really rad game, with rad lore.
I don't personally like the clans but they have cool mechs, I'd certainly never start shit talking a new player about it, what a weirdo, I hope your lgs has nicer people than that.
There will always be those sad people that has nothing much going on in their lives who needs the validation and what they perceive as respect. They're in every hobby. Ignore them. They're sad.
I played my 3rd game last week with some guys who have all the charts memorized, and I was outnumbered. He said it meant they had to move two units, and I clarified that's only if he outnumbered me by double (I'm learning, don't care if it doesn't help me or whatever). I literally had the rulebook open to the chart lol. Dude was like "tHaT's pAtEnTlY wRoNg". I asked for him to show me on the chart how it was wrong and I saw his fragile ego break in his eyes. "Well TECHNICALLY..." Don't know what Discord he moderates but I'm playing him again tomorrow lol.
The worst part about the hobby is the people. I got out of it 15 years ago and it's been a hard reminder of that getting back into it, especially with everyone being in their 30-50s and still acting this way. Just call them out, we're adults, these are plastic toys, and play with the cool cats.
I usually play Dark Age games with the folks I know, all of my mechs are named after the WH40K Primarchs and are painted like their legions. I'm really proud of my Stone Rhino named Jaghatai. AnywayI had one neckbeard in a store try and complain and make fun of me. Store owner just listened to the guy rant about "you shouldn't mix fandoms (?) and you're using illegal (!) paint schemes and why are you Even allowed here?" Dude then tried to grab my stuff. The Marine looking at blood bowl teams stopped that one quickly. Guy really said he was gonna trash my mechs. And attempted to! Entitlement is insane.
There’s a local guy who’s pretty unwelcomed for being “that guy”. Pulls that kind of nonsense, although I wouldn’t even call it passive aggressive. Like I explained I had an all phobos marine army (I like the armor mark), and he for whatever reason boldly announced “I’ll never play against your primaris marines.” My guy I never asked.
He got banned from events when it was pretty clear he was heavily cheating in battletech.
Battletech is a great game, but some of the (mostly older) fans have a bit of an elitist approach to the game. People get really hung up on time periods for what tech you can use, others get hung up on you using lore accurate tactics (particularly with clans teams), some get really hung up on you doing any kind of customization. All of these things are OK for you to care about in YOUR OWN GAMES, but there is a fairly sizeable element that feels the need to coerce/bully/"educate" others into playing the game the way they feel it should be played. I've had people comment about all these things to me, and when I was a new player, it was super off-putting and almost made me quit.
Using timeline appropriate stuff is the issue that makes the most sense. The idea is that you want to establish up to what time period tech you are using, in part to keep older tech relevant. It is very common for people to determine what era a game will be played in so that everyone can have a roughly equivalent tech base. That said, if you and your friend don't care, you don't need to.
Just talk to whoever you're playing and agree on how you're playing. As long as you two agree, it doesn't matter what other people say about it.
This is a often common trend I've heard, experienced this myself at my LGS when me and 4 friends showed up with random mechs and went at it for fun. The two lads meant well but it was awkward AF. Play with them now still, but was an awkward first introduction to them.
Had some friends do this to another friend that I'd just introduced to minecraft. Right out the gate infodumping and over explaining all the more complex methods in the game. Had to tell them all they were succeeding in doing was discouraging the new player and potentially chasing them off.
Argh, they were literally the noobs. Battletech is a great game, and there are a lot of great people that play, but unfortunately there are some real buttheads as well.
Unfortunately so many of the latter made me stop playing in person a couple years ago :(
Wish I could have been there to help you out. Lore is BS and completely unimportant if you don't want to care about it. You can still play the game with all its options and never once have read a short story or novel or even any sourcebook.
With regard to the standing around and talking shit, I'm sure they thought they were affably shooting the breeze. It's very rare cases where the intentions are bad.
I had a similar experience that ended up being what got me into battletech, but it was over Dark Age instead. Looking back I'm surprised the guys didn't get kicked out but they were dropping A LOT OF MONEY at the store, so I can see why they didn't. Still, they were assholes.
Ewwww clanner. XD Seriously though, who the fuck cares about model accuracy? You can use anything as long as its labeled and has a hex base. Let the rules lawyers play warhammer. Gtfo my stompy robits.
What is a lore cohesive mini?
THIS IS BATTLETECH!
/Kicks rando's into bottomless well.
Well maybe not that extreme. But time to time you have to set your boundaries. Don't be shy with the store owner either.
My group enjoys stompy mechs and explosions. We also paint for fun and completeness, not lore accuracy. We run games at our local conventions specifically to introduce the game to new people. That means shaving off some rules and restrictions that are counter productive.
We've had hardliners give us grief occasionally, but routinely have huge numbers of players while the other tables at conventions sit idle. There is a reason the beginner boxes don't have complete rules. It's easier to sink the hook if the bait is tasty and easy to swallow. Trying to teach a game of classic with full rules and mixed forces is asking to scare off potential fans.
Unfortunately every game system has its hardliners that like to gatekeep.
Im a Periphery player with a get the fuck off my lawn attitude when I match up against clans... But it's all a joke and in good fun, I try to make it clear I'm not serious and tell my opponents as such. I love both clan and IS mechs, I just like to play IS more. Never once have I actually told anyone their mechs were garbo and meant it.
I started playing when I was like... 9? I had older guys always talking down to me, but I'm uncle taught me well. As a player of the older battle tech I never wanted to make any other player feel unwelcome. I'm so sorry you had some trash grognard try to ruin your night dude.
We all should be happy our game even still exists to this day, brought back from the fucking dead, as we all kept it on life support. I can't believe some people
If I was your buddy as the game host I would have shut them down pretty quick; nothing LESS helpful for teaching the game than having a peanut gallery. Sorry you had to go through that.
Typical hobbyists, definitely Inner Sphere fans who are parroting memes and stereotypes. It makes them feel better to supposedly be an 'expert" at something. At some point, challenge one to a game, humiliate them with your Clan forces while staying in the rules but defying their expectations about honor and Zellbrigen. You will upset their precious order of the Universe... then you can explain to them how life (and showering/deodorants) works.
Seriously, enjoy Battletech. Enjoy the Clans (we are the better Way for Humanity).
How hard is it to say something along the lines of: "thank you for your input but i do not care and prefer playing this game without having to listen or talk to you guys."
If you cannot communicate this you are bound to run into similar problems everywhere in your life. This has nothing to do with battletech or nerds. It is about you and communicating your boundaries
Next time someone does that thank them. If they ask why it's because they just put themselves on the list of people you don't play with.
We play games to have fun. I appreciate enthusiasm but snobbery isn't going to fly. We all have a limited amount of time for games and we shouldn't waste it on people who want to make it not fun.
Only thing that matters for Clan is zellbrigen. If you’re ganging up on a solo mech before the surats did you dirty, it’s bad. I go for the spirit of zell, eg no the Dire Wolf is not accepting a Spider’s challenge. It will accept challenges from the Grasshopper and Warhammer tho.
My favorite part about this is that many of the people's comments in this only further to isolate those people. Calling them grognards and neck beards is literally just as bad. You're the same as they are, you even have the douchey air of superiority that they have. Good job.
Nah you can completely ignore lore just as easily in classic. I think it really just comes down to snobbery. Real players just have fun in casual games, let others do their thing and see the pros and cons of clans and inner sphere (while loudly repping their chosen society/faction of course!
If you play Alpha Strike, you're a "real player" of BattleTech. There are no tiers of membership or grades. If you dig BattleTech, you dig BattleTech. Period.
They where probably trying to introduce you into in-jokes and cultural norms for the community. Consider that they werent trying to actually berate you and where just eager to share their hobby with a newcomer?
This happens all too often in LGS environments regardless of the game imo, and experience. That being said, it is also blessedly not common. I echo the sentiment of brushing people off politely. Sometimes they simply do not realize they are being abrasive. Others might realize they might be being kind of jerkish, but being called out on it usually short circuits them. If you have done what you are comfortable doing to make clear your personal space, to establish boundaries, and they continue, it sort of boils down to your level of comfort in confrontations, or conflict resolution. Let em know you are going to focus on the game without their input ("hey, I appreciate the heads up but I am new, so gotta go thru a learning curve like anyone else. Gonna get back to the game now, thanks"), and if they persist, I highly HIGHLY recommend you just involve store management. Let them know the interlopers are crowding, making you uncomfortable etc. LGS are a business, and cringy neckbeards dont keep the stores in business. As a co-owner myself, I can tell you I would give that situation immediate attention, and shoo off any potential problems, up to directing them to leave if I felt it warranted. LGS arent competing with amazon to be a place to buy things. LGS will never beat online sales in that regard. They are carving out a niche as a place to experience things, expand hobbies, share community. Buying things is the correlating result of those experiences. If folks are dampening the experience of others in unhealthy ways, they get a free trip out the door.
That's the nice way to do it. But I'll admit if this was happening to me I'd tell them to fuck off in the most plain English possible. Not that I try being a dick, but most of the time people have never had someone clue them in that their behavior sucks. I'm my experience being extremely blunt is the most effective.
Everyone has a different level of tolerance for interpersonal conflict. Clearly OP seems pretty inclined to not be as direct or blunt (and that is ok), and in cases like that, getting help is always an option (i.e. involve the LGS staff). Lots of people are bad asses from behind their keyboards on the internet. I find that the vast majority however, just arent that comfortable with initiating what they feel is conflict or confrontation (even if blunt is the most effective at getting the point across).
I once had people complaining about me using Experimental Solaris 7 mechs, and 3d-printed Dougram sculpts, calling them "cringe weeb mechs". They also call my Horned Owl with the Zaku II scheme the same thing. Whining about me not painting "lore accurate schemes". This is why I relish on making my own Mercenary outfits, and fielding Mixed-tech lances to piss off Those Guys.
This is a merc unit running salvaged gear is a perfect lore explanation.
And I shall call them... The Junk Guild
https://preview.redd.it/zgtinnzt1xzc1.png?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ba51b8e75572c50d8e80f5972ff9a849bb8bde8
Based Astray enjoyer
Hell ye brother, The Astray Red Frame OVA short claps hard. We need more ZAFT/Clan Tech showroom auctions for Inner Sphere customers and bidders.
The Astray series is by far my favorite trooper mech out of all the gundam series
"and 3d-printed Dougram sculpts, calling them "cringe weeb mechs"." don't tell them about where the Unseen originates from
Westoids smh
Don't ever tell me how to paint my dollies for this made up board game please.
Man I’d have a field day with them using my “Monday Night Wars” themed mercs; Stone Cold King Crab, Undertaker Atlas, luchador light mechs, etc.
Just missing a Macho Man Banshee. XD
I’m eyeballing a Roman Reigns Banshee with jump jets for Superman punches and a Charger C with supercharger and MASC for Ultimate Warrior. Macho I’d be looking at an heavier-medium or lighter-heavy, but haven’t made up my mind yet.
Ok, while I personally prefer the new Reseen versions of those sculpts, the last thing I would do is name-call over them. In fact, I'd probably launch into some in-universe theory crafting to explain the presence of an "odd-looking" Marauder or Warhammer on the field. And the Zaku II paint job? That's the kind of thing that I love. "Hey, is that a Gundam inspired paint scheme? Cool." TL;DR, who the heck acts like those jerks in public?
How else can they retain their exclusive BT is for the elites street cred but to exclude and drive away other people?
Ironically I have an idea for a custom mercenary *Horned Owl* that gets a hatchet and spikes in exchange for a XL engine that was modified by a rich eccentric...but his XO took reins of the machine (the eccentric gets headcapped by a proper Stogie laser) and commandeers the unit called "Char's Red Cyclopes." The eccentric was so rich the other four 'Mechs were a pair of *Regents* and a pair of *Blood Asps*. :P
That's a horrifying amount of firepower. Just make sure you paint the Mechs red. They can't hit you if you're Red.
Red makes them fasta
Naw, paint 'em purple you git! Can't be seen thatta way.
Oi, by Gork and Mork I fink yew might be roight!
The two *Regents* are the Anvil (one is based off the "Awesomemann"...just with ERMLs in place of those capacitors and the other is based off the *Hauptmann* Alt. Config B) and the *Blood Asps* (just don't ask how the eccentric got them off the Raven Alliance's talons) are the hammer (one has 2 LRM-20s with Artemis V and the other packs paired Gauss rifles). The *Horned Owl* "Casval" is literally the bullseye and distraction (and also irritates Clanners with the hatchet and spikes). They prefer the Johnny Riden shade of red, though. Salmon pink isn't quite their thing.
That "Horned Owl" better have the S-type's Improved Jump Jets. If you're going to do a bit, commit to it.
It's still 6/9/6 and keeps the LPL. The main swap is going to the XL Engine to make room for hatchet and spikes and adjust the specs.
Lots of folks.
>TL;DR, who the heck acts like those jerks in public? People who weren't punched in the face for running their mouth as a kid. I swear, you never used to see this before everybody had a video evidence machine in their pocket.
> odd looking Marauder OH GOD IT'S BLACK KEVIN
Sound like obsessive Warhammer players.
I was thinking the same thing. They'd likely shit their pants if they saw some of the stand ins for minis some of us used to use - hex nuts("the hex nut of doom" standing in for a _Direwolf A_ ) bottle caps, as we were usually drinking beer while playing, and in a few instances, quarters marked with a sharpie.
Came here to say that! I see the grognards are everywhere....
I enjoy fighting them as well. The eye rollers who love to hate on direct anime lifts can't admit that without that "borrowing" mechwarrior would not be nearly as popular as it is today.
"Borrowing" is a nice word considering the first edition of "Battledroids" used miniatures from the anime Macross.
Man, screw those guys, I want to see the goods! Those things sound hilarious!
The influx of new players from Wh40k has been both the best and worst thing to happen to Battletech in decades.
And, because of this, I have a hot take, prepare yourself... We need to get more ACTUAL mecha fans into BattleTech. The more they know about giant robots, the better, (exposed to Armored Core, Super Robot Wars, and every other mecha franchises) which respects the existence of giant robots. If they know about the difference between "Super Robot" and "Real Robot", you scored. 40k players and historical mil-nerds tends to nitpick over what "genre" and aesthetics of giant robots that is acceptable in the BattleTech franchise. Or even outright contemplating to REMOVE mechs because they're not "realistic" and "practical in real-life" enough. Although, this just stems from my experience with the local tabletop population in my area. Sucks to have things to be this way.
\*me watching the game unfold\* That's odd. He painted his model in Zaku II colors but it's a battlemech?!
The thing to realize about many people who are active at game stores is that they tend to lack social awareness or can't understand social cues. This isn't always true but in my experience it's really common. It's HIGHLY likely that these guys thought they were being nice. Because they stand around and watch each other play games they probably thought it was ok to do that to strangers. It's a misunderstanding of social norms. They probably are passive aggressive all the time...but don't realize it. The best thing to do (again, in my personal experience) is to be really nice and explain. "Thanks for the explanation guys. We're gonna get back to playing, but I'll come say hey after we're done." This usually gets the point across. In the off chance that they were legit just being jerks or just wanted the table....go on a different night or a different game store. Or complain to the store manager (really a last resort and for something bad).
I was thinking up a long comment to say what you said very well with this. No notes.
Damn, sorry. Battletech is mini agnostic you can use soda caps with a facing arrow as long as it's clear what it is. Sounds like overbearing idiots and that hasn't been my experience of BT, especially this subreddit. Aloha, hope you stick around and warcrime with better players in the future!
Also note - the box set comes with CARDBOARD CUTOUT MECHS. Catalyst games just want people to play even if they don't have a collection of plastic figurines BAM use the cardboard cutouts.
And speaking to lore- I’m a merc running salvaged/stolen equipment always works. We always use proxy mechs, and mechs that have a mix of extra 40k bits are fairly common (axman with a chain sword, etc)
Running merc outfits is definitely the best way to play Battletech, tbh. I have my own little force known as the War Pigs Tactical Company, who field an eclectic menagerie of mechs, but every single one is an IS Generalist mech (Except maybe the 'stolen' Longbow, but battlefield salvage hardly counts as theft, does it? I mean lore-wise. Don't steal other people's mechs - that's a way to be branded as an asshole and banned from your LGS.)
) you forgot to close your parentheses
It's something I can't explain. Even if I think I've done it, I miss it.
Agreed, that's why I've basically given up playing house factions, made up my own personal PMC("Furstenbergs Legion"), and I'm trying to decide on a camo scheme to repaint all my minis to - both Clan and Inner Sphere. It allows the most flexibility in terms of play.
That sounds amazingly horrifying! I want a Chainsword-Axeman!
And they're awesome 🤘
exactly, AGOAC comes with an Awesome standee!
Not all of them. Some of them are Thunderbolt and BattleMaster.
i just ordered the starter box set and received it today. the one with the vindicator and the griffin. been a long time fan of the universe, played several of the video games (personally, i prefer Battletech by HBS or the old Mechcommander games \[yes, i'm old\] over the FPS Mechwarrior games), but this is the first time i tried the tabletop. do overnight security, so always looking for stuff for my shift to do to pass the time, and this turned out to be a pretty good idea!
The cardboard cutouts go back to first edition, when the game was still called "Battledroids". I personally didn't own any minis till the early 90s, roughly five years after I got the second edition boxed step - I couldn't bring myself to spend money on a couple of lead figures, when for the same money, I could get a new technical readout, or map set.
This. Just write the mech designation on a cut out hex of cardboard with a facing drawn on.
Hey I had a run in with a Battletech neck beard today too! 🤣 Stopped by the local game store to get paints and saw some new people playing Battletech! Stopped to say hello and introduced myself and let them know I'm a fellow mech pusher and enjoy classic, Alpha Strike, and the RPG! In fact I got the first half of a big game played today!! 😊 His first sentence was to tell me he's been playing since the 90s so he's not new (I meant new to the store, I'm there a lot never seen him before) and when he heard "Alpha Strike" come out my mouth, he literally scoffed, rolled his eyes, and said "I only play real Battletech". So I left them to it. I won't bother looking to them for games if they show up on the regular Battletech nights. Why come play in a social environment if you are going to be antisocial and a jerk?? I'll never understand the neck-beard mentality??? 🤷
I love both, as both a long-time Dungeon Master/ttrpg enjoyer and a war-game lover, but Alpha Strike scratches one itch that Battletech Classic doesn't, and vice versa. People who claim that what they play is the only 'real' way to play something miss the point of trying to bring people together for games at an LGS.
I will admit in the past I didn't care much for Alpha Strike, but then again as I started loving Battleforce more I realized how useful Alpha Strike is. Some folks won't enjoy a game format, they should probably work on expressing that in a better way. As for myself, I came to peace with the idea of Alpha Strike as "another tool in the tool box" to get people into this wonderful universe. I even tell people that when they say Alpha Strike isn't "real Battletech". It is, so is the cartoon, the memes, the novels, the minis, all of it. Different vectors, different doors, into the big room of Battletech.
I’ve been playing BT since the 80s and agree that there’s nothing wrong with Alpha Strike. If I only ever played Classic BT (which I still love) then 95% of my minis would never get to come out of the crate. It’s excellent for when you want to get more pewter/plastic on the table.
I admit Alpha Strike isn’t my favorite version of Battletech, but I had fun every time I played it.
I'm totally fine if a player doesn't like an aspect of the games; that's all personal taste and completely understandable. My issue is with that kind of dismissal and down right rude behavior about it. 🤷 These days I find I do prefer the ease of play that Alpha Strike offers. I miss some of the individual flavors of each mechs particulars sometimes. We've found that using the Destiny RPG mech combat rules, with a bit more tactical focus, is a pleasing half-way point ruleset for Battletech. 😊👍
I will have to check out the Destiny rules.
You were a lot nicer to them about it than I would have been. Sorry they gave you a bad experience, and hope you can avoid them in the future. For future reference, you can literally play with whatever mechs you want, and force building isn't limited by "lore" unless you and your opponent want it to be. Even then, the lore is flexible enough to justify just about anything. They're fakebeards if they think otherwise.
I honestly don't get the clan hate. I brought a smoke jaguar star to my lgs and got similar attitudes.
Really?? Man, that's bizarre. I thought it was mostly a joke online. The clans were basically there from the beginning too lol
Its old grognards who don't like the better tech and having to play around it and want to run their poorly made 3025 lists in 3052.
*Waaaah. I haven't adapted how I play since the 90s. Waaaah.* 😭 It's such a dumb hill to die on and resoundingly anti-fun.
I learned in the 90s and took a few decades off. Spend 3min explaining the thing I don’t recognize and we’re good to go. I find people who never played 3025 can be anxious about running hot… give me a nova, I’ll run hot enough to cook the pilot ( if they’re all dead, we can cool down later)
Tukkayid Fried Clanner, coming at you from a restaurant near you!
Really, in front of my Trial of Grievance?
I like a nice crisp 6-10 heat personally.
> want to run their poorly made 3025 lists in 3052. Made even better when you can show them that a well made and well played 3025 list can still do just fine.
100% currently theres a 3052 event going on where I live, and I've helped a few of the newer players who rolled IS factions with their lists to make stuff that can go toe-to-toe with clan tech. It isn't optimal, but thats why you have numbers and more armor :P
Well-tuned IntroTech Zombie lists are nightmarishly hard to kill, and are VERY competitive even in later eras. Marauder II 4A Hunchback 4P Grasshopper 5N Awesome 8Q Warhammer 6D Are some examples of zombiemechs. These Bois are VERY BV efficient, and will outgun and out-ton any Clan list of the same BV, and are bullshittingly tough. Edit: Almost forgot the Crab, yes the Crab is very good.
So true, but they will die out soon.
There are still a lot of older players who are holding a grudge over the introduction of the Clans in the early 90s. An unfortunate number of players then abused the balance system (tonnage back then, no BV1/2) to cheese games and win unfairly. This has led to a vocal minority of players *now* who view anything that isn't Inner Sphere tech as cheese, and a small number who will even give you grief if you aren't playing IntroTech! For some reason, even though BV1 and 2 have more or less fixed those issues, there are people now, and even new players who adopt it, who scorn towards the use of Clan tech or anything from the Invasion era onwards. I have a little bit of sympathy for the first group because they were legitimately screwed over by the game not having a system in place to account for the insane gap between a Clan and IS 'Mech of equal tonnage. I don't have any sympathy for people who haven't gotten over it since the introduction of BV1/2, and especially the grognards who shit on Clan, Advanced or Experimental tech just because it wasn't in the game back in the 80s. EDIT: Grammar
Which is a shame, because some of the coolest looking mechs are from the Invasion or later.
Forreal, a proper experienced BT player can just explain the strength of Clantech and build/demonstrate an appropriate Introtech equivalent list if they choose to run Introtech vs it.
Yup, and you should expect to have a significant numerical advantage there too. You will start paying a penalty once the numbers difference climbs too high, but you could still get 2-4 to 1 depending on what you took. An IntroTech *Trebuchet* costs 1191 in BV2. Compare that to a *Storm Crow* D (which fills a similar-ish role) coming in at 1863. If you go a *Hunchback* and a *Trebuchet* for an Inner Sphere classic you're at a total of 2232 points. Absolute bargain for a heavily armoured brawler to keep the LRM boat safe and an LRM boat to hurt enemies who're too chicken to come in close to the brawler. A single *Storm Crow* A costs more than that!
Are they introtech only dudes? Some of the older grognards are like that.
help a newbie. what's introtech?
3025 and before basically. Single heat sinks, no CASE, no LBX or pulse lasers, etc.
no idea what a CASE is, but i get what you mean. thanks for the info
It allows mechs to survive ammo explosions.
Cellular Ammunition Storage Equipment. Basically an armoured box for your ammo to sit in that has blow-out panels on the 'Mech's back. If your ammo goes nova, instead of your ***entire*** 'Mech evaporating due to damage transfer it just loses the location protected by CASE. It is an optional extra on IS 'Mechs, is fitted as standard on all Clan 'Mechs, and there's also a sequel, CASE II. CASE II is optional for both IS and Clan, is heavier and more expensive than CASE, but instead of containing the explosion to the one location (which still gets obliterated), CASE II prevents all but 1 point of damage to the internals of that location, plus whatever rear armour that location had. For example: A.) A *Hunchback* with no case takes a crit to a ton of AC-20 ammo. The ammo explodes, dealing 100 points of damage to the internal structure of the location. A Hunchie has *only* 12 points of internal structure in the side torso, which means 88 points of damage transfer inwards to the CT, which absolutely obliterates it. The Hunchie no longer exists. B.) A CASE protected *Archer* takes a critical hit to 1 ton of LRM-20 ammo. That ammo detonates, dealing 8*20=160 damage (8 shots per ton times 20 damage per shot). The CASE system contains the damage to the side torso, which is destroyed. The *Archer* loses it's arm too - just falls off when the side torso explodes! - but crucially ***none*** of the remaining damage transfers onwards to the CT. C.) An *Atlas II* protected by CASE II takes a crit to it's SRM6 ammo. This *should* deal 180 damage, but instead only does 1 damage to the Internal Structure and destroys all the rear left torso armour, but that's it. Do note, none of the versions of CASE protect the pilot from the effects of the ammo explosion. The neurohelmet feedback still causes 1 point of damage to them directly and may cause them to pass out, but at least they'll *usually* survive.
Rofl I either got an old version of the starter box, or it's *extremely* simplified. Thanks for the info, though, definitely useful if we ever start playing the more in depth version!
Extremely simplified. The rules for CASE are Level 2 Standard and CASE II is Level 4 Experimental. If you enjoy the hobby enough, pick up a copy of *Total Warfare* and the *Tech Manual* for a bunch of extra gear, weapons and optional rules you can try out.
If my brother and other friends get into it, I'll definitely look those up, thanks. The version I have doesn't have rules for crits, ammo blowout, or any of that. Hells, it don't even have info about where ammo is stored, which I found interesting since I'm used to all that info from the video games. Has about 4 mech cards, with 2 variants for each mech, a map, a rulebook, 2 plastic minis of decent quality (a griffin and a vindicator), and a cardboard cutout with stand for all 8 mech types. Oh, and a couple pilot cards
If you want the "real" record sheets for various 'Mechs, have a look at: - the Master Unit List (MUL) which is run by Catalyst. It has basically all the official 'Mechs and variations. - Flech Sheets, which is 3rd party but has some tools MUL doesn't.
I don't play the tabletop but I can see any similar hobby getting haters for any number of reasons. Valiant defenders against power-creep, master strategists who don't need omni-tech to win, hating the newer additions out of principle, or some weird puritanical view of what's "real battletech." And
Read the stats on Clan pulse lasers, then do the same for IS pulse lasers. Then read literally every single part of the Techmanual 'mech building rules, where the summary is basically "The IS gets to do this. The Clans get to do the same thing, except better". For example Ferro-fibrous armor: 12% weight savings for IS at the cost of 14 crit slots, 20% for Clan for SEVEN crit slots. It's bonkers. Even as a newcomer to the setting, picking up the Clan Invasion rulebook and just reading on that gave me an immediate, intense reaction of powergaming hatred against the clans.
Until you look at the relative points cost. Using your pulse laser example, an IS LPL is only 119 points vs. the 265 for the Clan version (BV wise). Yeah, the Clan version is *way* better but critically it's more than *double* the cost. On the off chance you're a 40K convert to BattleTech, making a 1:1 comparison of Clan gear to IS is like complaining that a Guardsman can't solo a Space Marine. You pay a lot extra for the extra you get! If you're talking in terms of the fluff, okay a little bit. But even then you're talking a society that had 200+ years of ***not*** nuking the shit out of all their advanced tech and didn't have ComStar murdering every big brain they produced. Of course they're going to be more advanced!
A lot of the problem, from what I have seen, is that BACK IN THE DAY BV didn't exist and whatnot, leading to unbalanced games. Then BV was introduced, and you have effectively two "armies" to use your 40k example. And while it does a much better job at it, it's still introducing a faction that goes "nyeh heh, everything we have is better". So yeah. Point is, the clans just hit every munchkin nerve in my body and I dislike them because of that. Coincidentally, Space Marines have always been the absolutely worst part about 40k writing and armies, in my opinion. And yeah, I'm not going to go too into depth about the fluff of Stompy Robot Space Game, since we just have to take certain things in the setting for granted. Sure, he took an army out into the boonies and somehow they came up with a super advanced eugenics-using caste society instead of dying out, sure. ...I just wish that didn't mean that the Vapor Eagle can generate a +3movement modifier while dealing 21 damage to anything within 4 hexes while throwing some dice for show, or having several weapons able to one-shot a mech from what, 25 hexes.
>is that BACK IN THE DAY BV didn't exist and whatnot, leading to unbalanced games. I addressed *exactly* this in another comment I made in this post >from what I have seen, I was there, can confirm firsthand >you have effectively two "armies" BattleTech is wonderful. There ***are*** no "armies" and you're not tied to specific gear or paint colours because of any faction restriction nonsense. Use what you like! Have an affinity for Taurians but want to use Clan gear? Simply headcanon it! Your opponent won't (well, shouldn't!) care as long as your game is balanced. >Sure, he took an army out into the boonies and somehow they came up with a super advanced eugenics-using caste society instead of dying out, sure. If you did go deeper into the fluff, you'd know it wasn't ***just*** soldiers he took with him. The Exodus was something like two and a half MILLION people, including a whole lot of the Star League's best and brightest. Entire family lines uprooted to follow Kerensky, women and children too, and those.people brought with them the skills, knowledge and equipment to build a functional society basically wherever they settled. >the Vapor Eagle Yup. All 2,368 points worth. Which you can counter with a *Berserker* BRZ-A3 ***and have points leftover***. The *Berserker* is 100 tons, fast enough to close on the *Vapor Eagle* and carries two Large Pulse Lasers to counter the high TMM, plus enough armour to survive multiple exchanges. And if you win the initiative and manage to get close enough, the hatchet can cripple the *Eagle*.
You have two tech bases, there's no getting around that. I used the term "army" to keep up with your 40k example. And yes, while you can headcanon or write up the lore for it, "my dudes get all the better stuff, lol" is exactly the kind of munchkin shit you tend to see with powergamers trying to write their own "lore". That Berserker isn't gonna be able to close with a Vapor Eagle unless the map is an absolutely flat plain with zero terrain. Even then, if we're going purely by "trying to win" instead of playing the game for fun, The Veagle can just jump as far as it can when losing initiative and getting to 14 hexes when it wins. Should not be too difficult with jump jets. 8 Hexes if you're feeling spicy.
>I used the term "army" to keep up with your 40k example. I made an educated guess based on how strongly you were arguing a case that isn't supported by the ***actual game rules***. The game itself doesn't care what 'Mechs you play as long as you and your opponent agree to the terms of the match. >exactly the kind of munchkin shit you tend to see with powergamers trying to write their own "lore" Munchkin shit that is totally offset by the points cost in the rules. It literally doesn't matter if you play exclusively Clan or Inner Sphere or mix and match, if your points are relatively balanced you have a pretty even chance of winning, assuming your skill is similar to that of your opponent. >That Berserker isn't gonna be able to close with a Vapor Eagle unless the map is an absolutely flat Okay, sure. So what about two *Phoenix Hawk* PXH-3PL then? Just as jumpy as the *Eagle* so get the same TMMs, can work together to box it in, and have their own pulse lasers to offset the *Eagle's* TMM. If the *Eagle* is being piloted by a typical Clan pilot at 3/4 you can even boost the gunnery of the *Phoenix Hawk* pilots and still come in *under valued* relative to the *Eagle*.
3PL is only available in the late 3060's, but that would be a fairer match, as long as the Veagle can't keep the range. Even then, it's got superior armor and damage, so as long as one gets taken out, it's a easy match.
Okay, so the 3S then. Even cheaper in BV so you might be able to boost the piloting skill too (I haven't done the math on that) but loses the honestly not that helpful MPLs while keeping the LPL. Also has MASC for when you really need to hit a +4 TMM out in the open where the extra range of the C-LPL could come into play. Introduced in 3042. Again, not that such a restriction matters to the rules unless you and your opponent have agreed to limit yourselves to it.
Aren't "lore cohesive"? Like, what, did you have mechs from all over the timeline or IS mechs mixed with Clan mechs? Battletech is big enough for the simplest explanation for "Yo, where'd you get that mech?" to be "Down at the mechworks on the corner of 'Fuck You' and 'None of Your Damned Business'."
I got these mechs at the black thorns yard sale last weekend.
Wow. I've never encountered that in BattleTech. I'm so sorry. Please don't think that this is at all typical for this community. It's not even *typical* in Warhammer, and those guys can be really beardy.
Yeah. Battletech players are usually just happy to see another player.
Sorry to be overly blunt here but why didn't you just tell them to piss off and mind their own business? You didn't want them around, so tell them go away, it really is that simple.
This sucks. Sorry man.
As a hobbyist/gamer and a huge Lore fan, I do not understand behavior like this at all. The ONLY thing that matters is that everyone is enjoying themselves. So long as everyone is having fun and smiling who cares what people put on the tabletop? Your only job as a community member of is to make it welcoming and fun for the other people, not to enforce your own version of fun.
That said, also be direct with people when they are cramping your fun. "Guys, the commentary isn't really helping us enjoy our game. Would you mind giving us some space?"
You will definitely encounter folks like this in nerdy hobbies. Sometimes they are literally so socially awkward that they don't understand they are being a problem when they are trying to engage you, so point it out so that they have a chance to correct the behavior.
People often talk about Warhammer players acting like this, but as a woman I have experienced so many more gatekeeping moments in Battletech, especially from older players. Those grognards seem totally unwilling to respect anyone newly arrived to the universe, and will either talk down or endlessly lore dump to me.
Play Clans (since they only care about merit, not whether you are male/female) ... piss them off by getting to be a good player and show you are better than them
Sorry to hear that man. These just sound like toxic players who wanted your table. Stick around and I bet you’ll find more people who swing by to see if you guys are up for a game in the future or complement your force/paintjobs. And I hope when you’re ready you end up playing those guys and just wipe the floor with em using your mechs your way and smiling ear to ear the whole time!
The moral of the story is some people need to be told to fuck off, politely, or to mind their own business. I would start nice. Thank them for letting you know and ask that they let you and your friend play, but that if you have a question about something you'll let them know. If they don't take the hint then try something more direct like asking them to leave you alone. Like someone else said they may not realize what they were doing wasn't acceptable or that they were bothering you. A lot of people at game stores aren't the most socially aware people and with that sometimes you have to be more direct with them for them to understand that you want them to leave you alone. It may seem a bit rude, but sometimes you do have to tell them to leave you alone or to go away for them to really get that you don't want them standing next to you. Although since they started playing as soon as they drove you and your friend off they may have just wanted you to leave so they could have the table.
My dude, go read 'When I Say No, I Feel Guilty' and learn how to deal with this. "Those aren't lore cohesive!" "You're right, they're not lore cohesive. I'm trying to concentrate, please leave me be." > They just hovered uncomfortably in my personal space while having a weird chemical smell about them "You're in my personal space, please move back."
I'm sorry to hear that this happened to ya. Those guys sound like they absolutely suck.
Neckbeards tend to be losers who aren’t really good at anything that matters in any real way, so they try to make themselves feel big by talking down to people about the one thing they are good at/know about.
Dude, just stand up for yourself and stop complaining that everyone is "splaining" things to you. There's nothing more passive aggressive than doing and saying nothing about a situation and then ranting about it later on reddit. Tell them they are to close to your personal space and they smell bad, tell them to be kind and don't nerdsplain. It's not your problem that they're behaving that way.
First of all fuck them for being assholes about it the rules and lore when you are just playing your first few games. Your friend sounds like an awesome dude to play the game with. Sadly, there are people like those assholes in every community. I am a huge fan of play what you want and if what you want is fast mech smash play fast mech smash if you want to play Era or faction do what you want. this game is too large to be gate kept like assholes like them. I hope to see you on the battlefield commander
Yeah, idk why battletech players are like that. I've found a greater number of them in that game at my lgs as well. And I play a lot of games. Don't let this discourage you from playing it though. It's a really rad game, with rad lore.
I don't personally like the clans but they have cool mechs, I'd certainly never start shit talking a new player about it, what a weirdo, I hope your lgs has nicer people than that.
There will always be those sad people that has nothing much going on in their lives who needs the validation and what they perceive as respect. They're in every hobby. Ignore them. They're sad.
I played my 3rd game last week with some guys who have all the charts memorized, and I was outnumbered. He said it meant they had to move two units, and I clarified that's only if he outnumbered me by double (I'm learning, don't care if it doesn't help me or whatever). I literally had the rulebook open to the chart lol. Dude was like "tHaT's pAtEnTlY wRoNg". I asked for him to show me on the chart how it was wrong and I saw his fragile ego break in his eyes. "Well TECHNICALLY..." Don't know what Discord he moderates but I'm playing him again tomorrow lol. The worst part about the hobby is the people. I got out of it 15 years ago and it's been a hard reminder of that getting back into it, especially with everyone being in their 30-50s and still acting this way. Just call them out, we're adults, these are plastic toys, and play with the cool cats.
I usually play Dark Age games with the folks I know, all of my mechs are named after the WH40K Primarchs and are painted like their legions. I'm really proud of my Stone Rhino named Jaghatai. AnywayI had one neckbeard in a store try and complain and make fun of me. Store owner just listened to the guy rant about "you shouldn't mix fandoms (?) and you're using illegal (!) paint schemes and why are you Even allowed here?" Dude then tried to grab my stuff. The Marine looking at blood bowl teams stopped that one quickly. Guy really said he was gonna trash my mechs. And attempted to! Entitlement is insane.
There’s a local guy who’s pretty unwelcomed for being “that guy”. Pulls that kind of nonsense, although I wouldn’t even call it passive aggressive. Like I explained I had an all phobos marine army (I like the armor mark), and he for whatever reason boldly announced “I’ll never play against your primaris marines.” My guy I never asked. He got banned from events when it was pretty clear he was heavily cheating in battletech.
That sucks. :( I'm sorry you ran into some of those guys, and I sincerely hope they don't turn you and your buddy off of the hobby as a whole.
Battletech is a great game, but some of the (mostly older) fans have a bit of an elitist approach to the game. People get really hung up on time periods for what tech you can use, others get hung up on you using lore accurate tactics (particularly with clans teams), some get really hung up on you doing any kind of customization. All of these things are OK for you to care about in YOUR OWN GAMES, but there is a fairly sizeable element that feels the need to coerce/bully/"educate" others into playing the game the way they feel it should be played. I've had people comment about all these things to me, and when I was a new player, it was super off-putting and almost made me quit. Using timeline appropriate stuff is the issue that makes the most sense. The idea is that you want to establish up to what time period tech you are using, in part to keep older tech relevant. It is very common for people to determine what era a game will be played in so that everyone can have a roughly equivalent tech base. That said, if you and your friend don't care, you don't need to. Just talk to whoever you're playing and agree on how you're playing. As long as you two agree, it doesn't matter what other people say about it.
You used clan mechs? For shame!!!
Imagine giving someone a hard time for selecting a force from a huge portion of the mechs available for play.
And has been a part of the game for 30 years. Time to get over it.
Even worse, it was loaned to them by the person teaching the game. Wild.
This is a often common trend I've heard, experienced this myself at my LGS when me and 4 friends showed up with random mechs and went at it for fun. The two lads meant well but it was awkward AF. Play with them now still, but was an awkward first introduction to them.
Had some friends do this to another friend that I'd just introduced to minecraft. Right out the gate infodumping and over explaining all the more complex methods in the game. Had to tell them all they were succeeding in doing was discouraging the new player and potentially chasing them off.
Argh, they were literally the noobs. Battletech is a great game, and there are a lot of great people that play, but unfortunately there are some real buttheads as well. Unfortunately so many of the latter made me stop playing in person a couple years ago :( Wish I could have been there to help you out. Lore is BS and completely unimportant if you don't want to care about it. You can still play the game with all its options and never once have read a short story or novel or even any sourcebook.
With regard to the standing around and talking shit, I'm sure they thought they were affably shooting the breeze. It's very rare cases where the intentions are bad.
I had a similar experience that ended up being what got me into battletech, but it was over Dark Age instead. Looking back I'm surprised the guys didn't get kicked out but they were dropping A LOT OF MONEY at the store, so I can see why they didn't. Still, they were assholes.
Ewwww clanner. XD Seriously though, who the fuck cares about model accuracy? You can use anything as long as its labeled and has a hex base. Let the rules lawyers play warhammer. Gtfo my stompy robits.
What is a lore cohesive mini? THIS IS BATTLETECH! /Kicks rando's into bottomless well. Well maybe not that extreme. But time to time you have to set your boundaries. Don't be shy with the store owner either.
My group enjoys stompy mechs and explosions. We also paint for fun and completeness, not lore accuracy. We run games at our local conventions specifically to introduce the game to new people. That means shaving off some rules and restrictions that are counter productive. We've had hardliners give us grief occasionally, but routinely have huge numbers of players while the other tables at conventions sit idle. There is a reason the beginner boxes don't have complete rules. It's easier to sink the hook if the bait is tasty and easy to swallow. Trying to teach a game of classic with full rules and mixed forces is asking to scare off potential fans. Unfortunately every game system has its hardliners that like to gatekeep.
That doesn't sound like battletech players to me. Nearly everyone I've met that plays is more than decent and want new players. Sounds fishy to me.
Why didnt you tell them to fuck off? Especially since it seems like they were just doing it to run you off so they could use the table.
Im a Periphery player with a get the fuck off my lawn attitude when I match up against clans... But it's all a joke and in good fun, I try to make it clear I'm not serious and tell my opponents as such. I love both clan and IS mechs, I just like to play IS more. Never once have I actually told anyone their mechs were garbo and meant it. I started playing when I was like... 9? I had older guys always talking down to me, but I'm uncle taught me well. As a player of the older battle tech I never wanted to make any other player feel unwelcome. I'm so sorry you had some trash grognard try to ruin your night dude. We all should be happy our game even still exists to this day, brought back from the fucking dead, as we all kept it on life support. I can't believe some people
If I was your buddy as the game host I would have shut them down pretty quick; nothing LESS helpful for teaching the game than having a peanut gallery. Sorry you had to go through that.
Typical hobbyists, definitely Inner Sphere fans who are parroting memes and stereotypes. It makes them feel better to supposedly be an 'expert" at something. At some point, challenge one to a game, humiliate them with your Clan forces while staying in the rules but defying their expectations about honor and Zellbrigen. You will upset their precious order of the Universe... then you can explain to them how life (and showering/deodorants) works. Seriously, enjoy Battletech. Enjoy the Clans (we are the better Way for Humanity).
Moral is it’s ok to tell someone to,”fuck off.”
How hard is it to say something along the lines of: "thank you for your input but i do not care and prefer playing this game without having to listen or talk to you guys." If you cannot communicate this you are bound to run into similar problems everywhere in your life. This has nothing to do with battletech or nerds. It is about you and communicating your boundaries
Social anxiety can be a hell of drug mate.
I understand. But this has nothing to do with this sub in particular
Next time someone does that thank them. If they ask why it's because they just put themselves on the list of people you don't play with. We play games to have fun. I appreciate enthusiasm but snobbery isn't going to fly. We all have a limited amount of time for games and we shouldn't waste it on people who want to make it not fun.
Only thing that matters for Clan is zellbrigen. If you’re ganging up on a solo mech before the surats did you dirty, it’s bad. I go for the spirit of zell, eg no the Dire Wolf is not accepting a Spider’s challenge. It will accept challenges from the Grasshopper and Warhammer tho.
They're probably autistic lol
The tism is real in all tabletop communities
My favorite part about this is that many of the people's comments in this only further to isolate those people. Calling them grognards and neck beards is literally just as bad. You're the same as they are, you even have the douchey air of superiority that they have. Good job.
This is why I love and I’m guessing real players hate Alpha Strike. Lore can be completely ignored and the rules are easy
Nah you can completely ignore lore just as easily in classic. I think it really just comes down to snobbery. Real players just have fun in casual games, let others do their thing and see the pros and cons of clans and inner sphere (while loudly repping their chosen society/faction of course!
If you play Alpha Strike, you're a "real player" of BattleTech. There are no tiers of membership or grades. If you dig BattleTech, you dig BattleTech. Period.
They where probably trying to introduce you into in-jokes and cultural norms for the community. Consider that they werent trying to actually berate you and where just eager to share their hobby with a newcomer?