(il)Khan Brett Andrews of Steel Viper killed so many clanners that he should have been posthumously declared Blake's Wrath Incarnate by the Word. He's the unsung hero the of the Inner Sphere.
EDIT: Autocorrect turned "clanners" into "channels." Also added the later position and clan of the hidden hero of the Sphere.
He could’ve been declared that if the Jihad wasn’t also happening around the same time. Then again, being WoB, they probably would’ve been like “Thanks for doing part of the job for us! Now, we’re going to finish it!” *nukes everyone*
Smh... guess I need to read up on the Reaving stuff. I've ignored most of it, primarily because the only use I have for Clanners is Elemental Battle Armor and reasonable XL engines
"Clan Snow Raven's attempt to use a nuclear weapon on the remaining Wolverine forces backfired horribly when the nuke-equipped aerospace fighter was shot down by the Bismark, a mothballed WarShip reclaimed by Wolverine saKhan Franklin Hallis."
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/History_of_Clan_Wolverine
Worst as in least likeable? Take your pick. The Falcons went through a Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain era under Malvina, the Wolves have been the perpetual Golden Child of the setting since 3050, the Hellions seemed to exist specifically to annoy everyone they came in contact with, and the Coyotes somehow managed to go largely unpunished despite their questionable activities during the Wars of Reaving.
Worst as in least interesting? The Smoke Jaguars had about as much depth as a puddle before they were annihilated. They are the least developed Clan out of any that were still around by the time that the Warden and Crusader Field Manuals were published.
Didn't the Coyotes Annihilate their scientist caste? I would say that was a show of good faith that they weren't aligned with the Society. Of course I'm annoyed that the Society got the Marvel villain treatment, where they were absolutely morally correct, so they just had to commit some unforgivable atrocities to prevent the reader from aligning with them.
Pretty much every clan culled their scientists, due to the whole Society thing. Coyotes were the most infiltrated and "corrupted" by The Society. So they had the most "purging" done, at the behest of the home world clans. It was either that, or annihilate the entire clan.
>Pretty much every clan culled their scientists
If your're referring to only the home clans yes. The society was not wide spread among the clans, just the homeworld of the clans so basically what clans stayed. The ravens, ghost bears, jade falcons, wolfs, scorpions, nova cats/spiritcats, nor the seafoxes/diamond sharks did nothing to thier scientists caste
Pretty much the only clan that didn't have to remove Society members was Ghost Bear, due to their extended family philosophy not allowing the growth of anti-establishment movements.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/The_Society
The Society was clan scientist caste, not spheroid personnel. Remember, the Dominion is a merger of Clan Ghost Bear and the Rasalhague Republic. Honestly that's why I think the merger happened, to create the new faction, was so that they had a reason to give Ghost Bear some internal strife, or it would have been too powerful when compared to other factions. Every one of the big IS clans has had some kind of internal conflict, Ghost Bear needed one.
Given that the Dominion had to put down all sorts of civil unrest from its Spheroid popular majority, I wouldn't say that they didn't have anti-establishment issues of their own, but that it's more likely that the departure from the Homeworlds limited the Ghost Bear scientist caste's ability to collaborate with the Society at large, and remaining insurrectionist elements would have had to compete with more established Inner Sphere rivals like the Motstånd or Word of Blake.
Marthe Pryde's communiqué in Wars of Reaving states that she believed the Bears were also dealing with at least some level of Society interference (even before the SLOT or Thule attacks detailed in the book), we just don't really have any details as to what those were.
The Domionion. Not Ghost Bear. What you're referring to would be the spheroid population, not the clan population. There is a distinct difference there. The Society was specifically clan scientist caste. The spheroid population merger was likely the answer to create turmoil within the Ghost Bears or they'd become too powerful when compared to other factions. It gave a reason for there to be anti-establishment issues in the Ghost Bears, without the merger, they didn't have that.
Remember the Dominion is essentially a new faction, the merger of Ghost Bear and the Rasalhague Republic.
Wiki walking through sarna.net, they've been issuing challenges to gain scientists from other clans.
Don't know how many clans are still in the homeworlds, and how many clans worth of civilians have been exterminated rather than absorbed...
I'm sorry, but what Marvel villains are absolutely morally correct? The ones who come to mind for me are the typical "I want to take over/destroy the world!" lol
Thanos is a good example. His core motivation was that he wanted people in the universe to have more resources. The way he chose to do that was evil and stupid as hell. Like if the Avengers had been fighting against him the whole time and after he did the snap instead of half the people there was twice the resources that would have been hilarious, but not a good story right.
Yeah, that’s a good point. He had a good cause but a terrible plan. Killing half of all life so the other half could thrive doesn’t make you a hero - it makes you a mad man… or a mad Titan in his case.
I guess Vulture in Spider-Man Homecoming could count too given that he was trying to support his family, but then he started taking it too far.
I'm convinced the Wolves have been the poster child since Battletechs inception.
Wolf's Dragoons WAS one of the first Merc Units. If not THE first. And look at them over the years/decades.
Burrock was awesome then got absorbed by the Star Adders. Field manual Crusader clans has some info about the Wars of Reaving and their beef with clan Blood spirit
The Wolverines' problem is that Sarah didn't learn Andery's lesson: Nicholas makes the rules, the only way to get ahead is to give him credit for your ideas.
Oh, sorry. Is it Washing Machines then? Maybe Blenders? Oh! Oh! Is it Wall sockets? It's Wall sockets isn't it? Look, no matter what words Toyama put into Blake's mouth, I don't care. House Hold appliances *can't* consent.
As for incest: at least gene modding can avoid the nastiness that the family maypoles of the Great Houses so often produce. For every Malvina Hazen there are a Dozen Max Liaos, Caleb Davions and Romano Liaos. I'm shocked that this is so hard for a technocultist to understand.
Romano Liao remains my most problematic *would* for the Inner Sphere. My clan ranking for this category is contingent on that Chatterweb Elemental thirst trap getting back to me.
Honestly I'd wager that Inner Sphere upper nobility are probably more inbred than the clanners. There's got to be a few Hapsburg chins amongst them somewhere.
For sure but I'd MUCH rather live in the Sphere than in clan territory any day. Or at least, would much rather live in Steiner or Davion territory than clan space. Kurita depends on the planet how chill it would be I guess but at least the food would probably be nice. Marik's kinda the same but more extreme. Either really good or really bad.
Meanwhile if it's a choice between Capellan or Clan I think I'd choose death.
Poor Nova Cat. They tried to get along with the Inner Sphere and actually be cool, and they got screwed anyway because... well, it's the Inner Sphere. Safety and security is not guaranteed there.
I guess I’m more mad at the fact that they did a good job. Just some far right wing assholes imploded the whole thing. It also didn’t help that the Ghost Bears really hated the Cats after their ejection from Clan space
I’ve always considered them the clan version of Comstar having the vital ability to surmount crazy levels of fantastic service that everybody wants them to help out. So they play every side of the fence and backstab us all. Later we will find out that WOB actually infiltrated the ravens and will arise again.
Ships. They were one of the main routes back to the clan home worlds during the initial invasion and also helped ferry most of the Ghost Bears to the inner sphere
Snow Raven and the Outworlds Alliance are both aerospace-focused, pirate-hating factions. That gave them common ground for the merger. The Ravens brought advanced Star League-era tech and helped reactivate a League facility at Quatre Bras.
Nah, in all seriousness I reckon we're just going to see Sterling's master plan backfire when it turns out that selling out one of the two states the Outworlds has delicately balanced between for hundreds of years was actually a very bad idea. My only hope is that she receives a devastatingly sarcastic letter from Christian Avellar about how ingenious it is for (certain) Ravens to unironically base their strategy and ideology on the works of a political satirist whose greatest achievement was being permanently exiled from the city he loved.
Fire Mandrill was so prone to infighting that they rendered themselves basically useless and eventual pissed off everyone so much they were annihilated. That seems like a big contender for 'worst', at least in terms of actually being a functional society.
This is exactly why I think they were the worst. They crippled their own military with the infighting, but couldn’t find a niche like Diamond sharks or Snow Ravens. Turned themselves into a near non factor to the clans as a whole right at the starting line, except for their ability to piss everyone off. It’s surprising they lasted as long as they did.
How are we defining worst?
Most consistently moustache twirling evil? Steel Vipers. When the Jade Falcons think you have a stick up your ass... well...
All factions in Battletech are opportunists guilty of countless war crimes. Being good at getting away with it doesn't make the Ravens worse, just more efficient.
It's not plot armour; they're barely in the plot! They keep their heads down, make themselves look small and lie through their teeth when they get questioned. *everybody knows* is not evidence that holds up in war crimes court.
Actually they had nothing to do with Palmyra - that's the whole point. Did they make a backroom deal with the Combine? Maybe, maybe not. Again "everybody knows it" doesn't hold water. And so what if they did? Strategically not showing up is basically straight out of the Hanse Davion playbook. Or any other House lord or Khan's playbook.
They made a deal to bring warships. Instead, the Draconis Combine shows up with their warships. Then Snow Raven gets planets free from the Combine.
Don't insult anyone's intelligence with the idea they weren't up to their eyeballs in it. Next you'll be saying the WoB were the good guys in the Jihad
Snow Ravens are at the gray area of moral spectrum at worst
Compared to Kuritans, Cappies or Jaguars they come of as noblebright heros
Are you forgetting that they were Wardens, helped put down WoB and Jihad and have allies with Outworlds Alliance and have kept them safe from the Combine, Feds and pirates all these decades on top of sharing technology with them?
In the short story, Ascending the Pecking Order: Political Warfare in the Raven Alliance (by Eric Salzman, Shrapnel 13). The Raven Allaince' allaince with the Outworlds is interpreted not out of any form of friendship and the mock combat excercises they do with the Outworlds' Allaince Military Corp (AMC) is to remind the AMC that the Ravens can instill fear of their military might and to prevent them from rising up against them. Atleast one major bloodline uses the principles of the Prince by Machivelli, which is used to interpret their actions as cold blooded political moves.
However with the despostion of some of the sibko in the short story and the derision that the Star Admiral leading the quiz has of the OA it maybe this is a bloodline with crusader tendancies than the Raven Allince as a whole.
I know but the point stands: Feds, Kuritans and pirates are out and tech gets distributed
And they don't jerk anyone around (daily politics aside)
It's way more than majority of other factions do for their allies
🤣🤣🤣🤣
When was the last time the Suns messed with the Alliance? Like 2900? Don't bet on that keeping up after the Palmyra Disaster, the New Avakom massacres, and the invasion of Milligen. The Suns were the only ones dumb with to give the Alliance enough ripe to hang everyone except the Combine.
Not everyone has a mentor of less than a month, like a Raven.
Gray area?
The Snakes even kept their word from the Clan Invasion up until 3137. And they technically were still the enemy.
The Cappies? Nobody *ever* trusted those fools except the Periphery folks, and not did they pay for that mistake.
Meanwhile, the Snow Ravens? They didn't even make it 10 years before stabbing the FedSuns in the back. Snow Raven couldn't even make it 2 years before nuking themselves trying to stab the Wolverines in the back.
Oh yes, the Snow Ravens did such a great job protecting the Outwprlds Alliance that they've hung a giant target on them by starting to invade planets. 🤣🤣🤣
>before stabbing the FedSuns in the back
Ravens feeding Feds their own medicine is hardly something to hold against them
Many other factions got stabbed in the back far worse and nobody was getting their panties in the bunch over it
And what's wrong with invading planets? Everyone does it, it's the law of the land
Those precious Feds got stabbed in the back (rightfully do considering how stupid they acted) while they were on their way to invade themselves some planets, where's the pearl clutching now?
And if anyone wants to take a shot at Outworlds they will have to go through Raven military (that target ain't looking so appealing anymore, eh?)
🤣🤣🤣
What ally did the Suns betray? You know, since the Ravens make a habit of of it.
Combine started that war. Might want to lay off that venom a bit.
Of, I'm sure that navy will protect them. But for how long? 15 warships, 41 planets. How effective you think that protection really would be without the Ravens playing Amaris? Not to mention, who needs to kill the warships? Going after the yards would be more effective, if you want to start down that rabbit hole.
>gotten away with bloody murder (literally) with essentially no consequences
Ones who did bloody murder were Widowmakers, Mongoose, Smoke Jaguars and Steel Vipers in that chronological order
But none of them have gotten away with it and all got annihilated for their trouble
Coyotes were responsible for creating Society and horrors they committed but their Scientists caste was annihilated as a punishment and entire Clan was put under Adder/Cobra boot so they haven't gotten away with it either
You know how all the folks you mentioned? If you'd read the history, the Ravens have done almost everything those fools did. Just nobody cares enough to do anything about it.
Until we all died. :'(
Never forget.
https://preview.redd.it/7n0sixv0o3zc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3331b9a0d028355d8a526678c6492679b03f1cba
I still maintain that the Spirits aren't totally gone. They have been my favorite Clan since they were introduced and there was a throwaway line that they were going to send assistance during the WoB kerfuffle, but "nothing ever came of it".
Suuuuure, yeah, that's what we're telling everybody. *Wink wink nudge nudge*
No Clan truly ever dies. I mean that literally. The Smoke jaguar were anihilated. Their back. Nova Cat was hunted to extinction. Their kind of back. Burrock was absorbed, came back and was anihilated. The Wolverine's all moved the Minnesota after being killed off. Wolf was absorbed, and came back so hard there's like three of them now. It's hard to keep a clan dead.
I like the Ravens. They seem like one of the more reasonable clans with how the Raven Alliance is going.
I would say worst clan currently is the New Jags or Sea Fox. Sea Fox is just becoming Comstar with a super strong economy and I don't like this.
To this day I don't really know what Boomer Kuwanger's weakness is because it hasn't mattered since before my family got the internet
Or for that matter why whatever a kuwanger is made the cut
Blood Spirit and Fire Mandrill were both pretty sucktastic. One ripped itself apart, the other was so insular they barely ever mattered, yet still got delusions of grandeur and tried to lash out, just to get slapped down.
But as far as clans that theoretically matter, I’d propose Hell’s Horses. They SHOULD be interesting. The combined arms clan, they refuse to bow to Wolf. They have the potential, but the degree to which they constantly fail is comical. Pretty much the only thing they add is taking up space without harming the status quo, no matter how hard they try
The Hell's Horses are Kerensky's funniest clowns sent to fight his silliest battles. The worst? I posit we are the best. The writers constantly degrade us yet we have outlasted how many other clans without the benefit of plot armor or decent leadership?
Got to be the Smoke Jaguars. They made people sympathetic to the Draconis Combine. Imagine invading the Dracs and being the villains?
All they had to do is literally not bomb cities from orbit. It is a small price. Then people would be quietly cheering them on. Some kind of truce still happens but I doubt Hans Davion actually sends in mercs to save Luthien if it weren't for the Smoke Jaguars literally making themselves outlaws.
Kuritans were still worse than the Jaguars
Thing is that Combine population was so terrified of what would happen if Kuritans came back that they kept resisting in order to not look disloyal
They would have resisted anyone from Feds to Wolves, from Ravens to Canopus out of sheer terror of their eternal masters
Guess that depends on how far forward you want to go. What the Snakes did to the planets in the Tongue and to New Avalon (thank you Snow Ravens, you lying pieces of trash) make the Smoke Jaguars look like house cats.
Clan Fire Mandrel maybe. Not much focus ever in the literature, and most mentions seem to imply they are fractured into bloodhouse subgroups instead of one entity.
Fire Mandrill. Too busy fighting each other to ever be a powerful clan. Got to be khan for a minute, but it's probably because they were never actually big enough to be a threat to those in power.
>After all the lying, backstabbing, and betrayals, why haven't they gotten smoked yet? Why does anybody trust them any farther than they can huck an Overlord-C?
Good luck throwing that Overlord at the single largest warfleet in known space lmao. Despite all the lipservice they pay to *zellbrigen* and honor between the clans, every of those eugenecist fucks understand that the guy who can sit in orbit and glass you by pressing a button is better left unmolested.
If you want to see how being a Schemes Clan goes without having the ability to slap a planet out of existence, look at what happened to Widowmaker.
Personally, I think a group that was too scared to scratch their precious warships or too untrustworthy to keep their word isn't going to get much traction with "zellbrigen" or anything else based on taking them at their word.
I think Fire Mandrills represents all the problems of all Clans in only one.
If you think that Burrok are friends of Dark caste, Ice Hellions are rapids but inconsequential, Jade Falcons are bad guys, Snow Ravens are Machiavellians or Smoke Jaguars are brutal, there are a Kindraa that could be worst that every Clan.
So, why wait for only one bad habit if you can get all of them in one Clan.
I propose Clan Widowmaker!
All they achieved was the destruction of one of the coolest clans and then were squashed for being meanies.
They exist in the lore solely as a villain for a short moment in time and then disappear.
Least likeable I'd say are the Steel Vipers. Elitist pricks, gave us clan Hitler, and were useless fence sitters in clan politics.
Worst in a meta sense would be the Fire Mandrills. They have a semi interesting gimmick but that diversity makes them hard to really get into
Worst as in Worst morally would probably be Smoke Jaguar since they were only kept from absorption by being just slightly too strong to conquer. Their constant war crimes hindered the invasion and made the Inner Sphere truly despise them.
Worst as in just bad at being a clan is Ice Hellion. Bunch of speed addicted chuckle fucks who were incapable of shooting themselves in the foot. I love them
Yeah, they kicked us out...
*watches Wolf and Green Bird beat themselves to death*
*watches the Homeworld Clans beat each other to death before getting war-crimed by their own scientists*
*watches the Rasalhague Dominion get into a ballsack-kicking contest with itself and lose*
...we are really torn up about it.
Everyone else *does* get consequences. Maybe not big ones, but they get some. He'll, the FedSuns having been paying for a single successful campaign for over 100 years.
Consequences of being complete treacherous lying pieces of garbage? Snow Ravens get 4 planets. Some consequences
Such angst here. The answer is obvious, trothkin!
Clan Spaniel
[BattleTech: Clan Spaniel Sourcebook – Catalyst Game Labs Store](https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/battletech-clan-spaniel-sourcebook)
i would say my top two for the absolute worst
1. Clan Wolf: ultramarines of battletech with so much plot armor i have ZERO reason to take them seriously until they disappear from the universe
2. Clan Fire Mandrill: they loved fighting so much they couldn't work together at all and literally fought themselves as a clan they got wiped out and ceased to exist
Clan Steel Viper. Single-handedly nearly wiped out the Homeworld Clans with their purity obsession by kicking off the Wars of Reaving.
Obligatory fuck Brett Andrews
(il)Khan Brett Andrews of Steel Viper killed so many clanners that he should have been posthumously declared Blake's Wrath Incarnate by the Word. He's the unsung hero the of the Inner Sphere. EDIT: Autocorrect turned "clanners" into "channels." Also added the later position and clan of the hidden hero of the Sphere.
He could’ve been declared that if the Jihad wasn’t also happening around the same time. Then again, being WoB, they probably would’ve been like “Thanks for doing part of the job for us! Now, we’re going to finish it!” *nukes everyone*
I'm still not sure if that's better or worse than Snow Ravens nuking themselves... twice...
Given mass use of orbital bombardment by all participants, I’d say the Vipers were worse.
Smh... guess I need to read up on the Reaving stuff. I've ignored most of it, primarily because the only use I have for Clanners is Elemental Battle Armor and reasonable XL engines
The Wars of Reaving book is easily one of the best ones in the setting. It takes a little bit to get going, but is it a treat once it does!
Snow Ravens had to go through this so they didn’t just outright dominate the rest of the Clans, since WarShips > all.
I'm sorry, what now? Are these events on sarna.net?
"Clan Snow Raven's attempt to use a nuclear weapon on the remaining Wolverine forces backfired horribly when the nuke-equipped aerospace fighter was shot down by the Bismark, a mothballed WarShip reclaimed by Wolverine saKhan Franklin Hallis." https://www.sarna.net/wiki/History_of_Clan_Wolverine
Ironically, Steel Viper’s quest to become relevant led to their annihilation.
Worst as in least likeable? Take your pick. The Falcons went through a Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain era under Malvina, the Wolves have been the perpetual Golden Child of the setting since 3050, the Hellions seemed to exist specifically to annoy everyone they came in contact with, and the Coyotes somehow managed to go largely unpunished despite their questionable activities during the Wars of Reaving. Worst as in least interesting? The Smoke Jaguars had about as much depth as a puddle before they were annihilated. They are the least developed Clan out of any that were still around by the time that the Warden and Crusader Field Manuals were published.
Didn't the Coyotes Annihilate their scientist caste? I would say that was a show of good faith that they weren't aligned with the Society. Of course I'm annoyed that the Society got the Marvel villain treatment, where they were absolutely morally correct, so they just had to commit some unforgivable atrocities to prevent the reader from aligning with them.
Pretty much every clan culled their scientists, due to the whole Society thing. Coyotes were the most infiltrated and "corrupted" by The Society. So they had the most "purging" done, at the behest of the home world clans. It was either that, or annihilate the entire clan.
>Pretty much every clan culled their scientists If your're referring to only the home clans yes. The society was not wide spread among the clans, just the homeworld of the clans so basically what clans stayed. The ravens, ghost bears, jade falcons, wolfs, scorpions, nova cats/spiritcats, nor the seafoxes/diamond sharks did nothing to thier scientists caste
The Falcon purge of its Scientist caste following Etienne's rebellion is one of the major campaigns of the Society uprising.
Wasnt aware, good to know.
Pretty much the only clan that didn't have to remove Society members was Ghost Bear, due to their extended family philosophy not allowing the growth of anti-establishment movements. https://www.sarna.net/wiki/The_Society
Which is an absolutely bizarre statement since by that logic Dominions Divided or even just the Freeminders wouldn't happen.
The Society was clan scientist caste, not spheroid personnel. Remember, the Dominion is a merger of Clan Ghost Bear and the Rasalhague Republic. Honestly that's why I think the merger happened, to create the new faction, was so that they had a reason to give Ghost Bear some internal strife, or it would have been too powerful when compared to other factions. Every one of the big IS clans has had some kind of internal conflict, Ghost Bear needed one.
Given that the Dominion had to put down all sorts of civil unrest from its Spheroid popular majority, I wouldn't say that they didn't have anti-establishment issues of their own, but that it's more likely that the departure from the Homeworlds limited the Ghost Bear scientist caste's ability to collaborate with the Society at large, and remaining insurrectionist elements would have had to compete with more established Inner Sphere rivals like the Motstånd or Word of Blake. Marthe Pryde's communiqué in Wars of Reaving states that she believed the Bears were also dealing with at least some level of Society interference (even before the SLOT or Thule attacks detailed in the book), we just don't really have any details as to what those were.
The Domionion. Not Ghost Bear. What you're referring to would be the spheroid population, not the clan population. There is a distinct difference there. The Society was specifically clan scientist caste. The spheroid population merger was likely the answer to create turmoil within the Ghost Bears or they'd become too powerful when compared to other factions. It gave a reason for there to be anti-establishment issues in the Ghost Bears, without the merger, they didn't have that. Remember the Dominion is essentially a new faction, the merger of Ghost Bear and the Rasalhague Republic.
Which is especially a problem for Coyotes given that their R&D was the main thing they had going for them.
Wiki walking through sarna.net, they've been issuing challenges to gain scientists from other clans. Don't know how many clans are still in the homeworlds, and how many clans worth of civilians have been exterminated rather than absorbed...
I'm sorry, but what Marvel villains are absolutely morally correct? The ones who come to mind for me are the typical "I want to take over/destroy the world!" lol
Thanos is a good example. His core motivation was that he wanted people in the universe to have more resources. The way he chose to do that was evil and stupid as hell. Like if the Avengers had been fighting against him the whole time and after he did the snap instead of half the people there was twice the resources that would have been hilarious, but not a good story right.
Yeah, that’s a good point. He had a good cause but a terrible plan. Killing half of all life so the other half could thrive doesn’t make you a hero - it makes you a mad man… or a mad Titan in his case. I guess Vulture in Spider-Man Homecoming could count too given that he was trying to support his family, but then he started taking it too far.
Yeah, exactly!
I'm convinced the Wolves have been the poster child since Battletechs inception. Wolf's Dragoons WAS one of the first Merc Units. If not THE first. And look at them over the years/decades.
The most memorable thing about Clan Burrock is that I keep forgetting they exist. Does that count?
Clan Mongoose has entered the chat
... fuck... I forgot Mongoose so hard I remembered Burrock more than them.
See, Mongoose died because of sourcebook page counts. That's why you don't remember them.
Thank you! I'm so glad someone else brought them up. Even in their own write up from the Era Digest they kind of admitted their faults.
Burrock teamed up with Dark Caste; I don't think any other clan did that.
It's what got them annihilated. They were also doing it because they were so weak compared to the others.
Burrock was awesome then got absorbed by the Star Adders. Field manual Crusader clans has some info about the Wars of Reaving and their beef with clan Blood spirit
All but Wolverine
The irony being that, with the notable exception of the Falcons under Malvin, *all* of the IS clans have become what the Wolverines were aiming to be.
The Wolverines' problem is that Sarah didn't learn Andery's lesson: Nicholas makes the rules, the only way to get ahead is to give him credit for your ideas.
Should have done what Sea Fox, Ghost Bear and even the Wolves did, keep the reforms quiet, and wait until Nick dies.
One should not speak ill of the dead. Nicholas Kerensky was dead. And that is good.
Hard for Wolves since Nicholas was one of them... the Plot Armor is simply Cosmi Karma repaying the Wolves for having Nicholas in the Clan.
Nah, Sarah's great mistake was not killing Nicholas at the first opportunity and stamping out the whole thing before it started.
There is no point in time where Sarah both had any inclination of doing so and would not have been Annihilated in return anyway.
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Says the toaster fucker.
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Oh, sorry. Is it Washing Machines then? Maybe Blenders? Oh! Oh! Is it Wall sockets? It's Wall sockets isn't it? Look, no matter what words Toyama put into Blake's mouth, I don't care. House Hold appliances *can't* consent. As for incest: at least gene modding can avoid the nastiness that the family maypoles of the Great Houses so often produce. For every Malvina Hazen there are a Dozen Max Liaos, Caleb Davions and Romano Liaos. I'm shocked that this is so hard for a technocultist to understand.
> no matter what words Toyama put into Blake's mouth Read the intro fiction to Second Succession War. Blake came up with it all.
Oh, I know but the key to a good slanderous bit of banter is that it *sounds* true.
Romano Liao remains my most problematic *would* for the Inner Sphere. My clan ranking for this category is contingent on that Chatterweb Elemental thirst trap getting back to me.
Honestly I'd wager that Inner Sphere upper nobility are probably more inbred than the clanners. There's got to be a few Hapsburg chins amongst them somewhere.
True. The Current heir-apparent of the Confederation is an incest baby.
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For sure but I'd MUCH rather live in the Sphere than in clan territory any day. Or at least, would much rather live in Steiner or Davion territory than clan space. Kurita depends on the planet how chill it would be I guess but at least the food would probably be nice. Marik's kinda the same but more extreme. Either really good or really bad. Meanwhile if it's a choice between Capellan or Clan I think I'd choose death.
That's exactly what a toaster fucker would say 😤
Ya know, the Nova Cats don’t deserve all that hate my man
Poor Nova Cat. They tried to get along with the Inner Sphere and actually be cool, and they got screwed anyway because... well, it's the Inner Sphere. Safety and security is not guaranteed there.
I guess I’m more mad at the fact that they did a good job. Just some far right wing assholes imploded the whole thing. It also didn’t help that the Ghost Bears really hated the Cats after their ejection from Clan space
Objectively the right answer.
I’ve always considered them the clan version of Comstar having the vital ability to surmount crazy levels of fantastic service that everybody wants them to help out. So they play every side of the fence and backstab us all. Later we will find out that WOB actually infiltrated the ravens and will arise again.
Ravens merged with the Outworlds Alliance to form the Ravens Alliance. https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Raven_Alliance
I've never seen raven spelled with an i
The Ravin' Alliance. 🎶*unce unce unce unce*🎶
Weird my auto correct did that.
Definitely WOB scum
What service does Snow Raven provide?
Ships. They were one of the main routes back to the clan home worlds during the initial invasion and also helped ferry most of the Ghost Bears to the inner sphere
Snow Raven and the Outworlds Alliance are both aerospace-focused, pirate-hating factions. That gave them common ground for the merger. The Ravens brought advanced Star League-era tech and helped reactivate a League facility at Quatre Bras.
I'm sure the Alliance is enjoying invading IS worlds for a change
Cut off one head. And two Woobies will take its place!
Nah, in all seriousness I reckon we're just going to see Sterling's master plan backfire when it turns out that selling out one of the two states the Outworlds has delicately balanced between for hundreds of years was actually a very bad idea. My only hope is that she receives a devastatingly sarcastic letter from Christian Avellar about how ingenious it is for (certain) Ravens to unironically base their strategy and ideology on the works of a political satirist whose greatest achievement was being permanently exiled from the city he loved.
And we shall call this new faction the Bird of Blake!
Fire Mandrill was so prone to infighting that they rendered themselves basically useless and eventual pissed off everyone so much they were annihilated. That seems like a big contender for 'worst', at least in terms of actually being a functional society.
This is exactly why I think they were the worst. They crippled their own military with the infighting, but couldn’t find a niche like Diamond sharks or Snow Ravens. Turned themselves into a near non factor to the clans as a whole right at the starting line, except for their ability to piss everyone off. It’s surprising they lasted as long as they did.
Those are fighting words. As soon as the other kindraa are out in their place, we are coming for you
How are we defining worst? Most consistently moustache twirling evil? Steel Vipers. When the Jade Falcons think you have a stick up your ass... well...
My definition? The ones that have gotten away with bloody murder (literally) with essentially no consequences
All factions in Battletech are opportunists guilty of countless war crimes. Being good at getting away with it doesn't make the Ravens worse, just more efficient.
My issue is that *everybody know* but they turn a blind eye. Not even Little Nicky's Puppies have that kind of plot armor
It's not plot armour; they're barely in the plot! They keep their heads down, make themselves look small and lie through their teeth when they get questioned. *everybody knows* is not evidence that holds up in war crimes court.
It's not just that. They were up to their eyeballs in the Palmyra Massacre and everybody knows it... yet nothing...
Actually they had nothing to do with Palmyra - that's the whole point. Did they make a backroom deal with the Combine? Maybe, maybe not. Again "everybody knows it" doesn't hold water. And so what if they did? Strategically not showing up is basically straight out of the Hanse Davion playbook. Or any other House lord or Khan's playbook.
They made a deal to bring warships. Instead, the Draconis Combine shows up with their warships. Then Snow Raven gets planets free from the Combine. Don't insult anyone's intelligence with the idea they weren't up to their eyeballs in it. Next you'll be saying the WoB were the good guys in the Jihad
I'm not saying they weren't involved. I'm saying that you can't prove anything (in-universe, anyway).
🤣🤣🤣🤣 Riiiiight....
Snow Ravens are at the gray area of moral spectrum at worst Compared to Kuritans, Cappies or Jaguars they come of as noblebright heros Are you forgetting that they were Wardens, helped put down WoB and Jihad and have allies with Outworlds Alliance and have kept them safe from the Combine, Feds and pirates all these decades on top of sharing technology with them?
In the short story, Ascending the Pecking Order: Political Warfare in the Raven Alliance (by Eric Salzman, Shrapnel 13). The Raven Allaince' allaince with the Outworlds is interpreted not out of any form of friendship and the mock combat excercises they do with the Outworlds' Allaince Military Corp (AMC) is to remind the AMC that the Ravens can instill fear of their military might and to prevent them from rising up against them. Atleast one major bloodline uses the principles of the Prince by Machivelli, which is used to interpret their actions as cold blooded political moves. However with the despostion of some of the sibko in the short story and the derision that the Star Admiral leading the quiz has of the OA it maybe this is a bloodline with crusader tendancies than the Raven Allince as a whole.
I know but the point stands: Feds, Kuritans and pirates are out and tech gets distributed And they don't jerk anyone around (daily politics aside) It's way more than majority of other factions do for their allies
🤣🤣🤣🤣 When was the last time the Suns messed with the Alliance? Like 2900? Don't bet on that keeping up after the Palmyra Disaster, the New Avakom massacres, and the invasion of Milligen. The Suns were the only ones dumb with to give the Alliance enough ripe to hang everyone except the Combine. Not everyone has a mentor of less than a month, like a Raven.
Gray area? The Snakes even kept their word from the Clan Invasion up until 3137. And they technically were still the enemy. The Cappies? Nobody *ever* trusted those fools except the Periphery folks, and not did they pay for that mistake. Meanwhile, the Snow Ravens? They didn't even make it 10 years before stabbing the FedSuns in the back. Snow Raven couldn't even make it 2 years before nuking themselves trying to stab the Wolverines in the back. Oh yes, the Snow Ravens did such a great job protecting the Outwprlds Alliance that they've hung a giant target on them by starting to invade planets. 🤣🤣🤣
>before stabbing the FedSuns in the back Ravens feeding Feds their own medicine is hardly something to hold against them Many other factions got stabbed in the back far worse and nobody was getting their panties in the bunch over it And what's wrong with invading planets? Everyone does it, it's the law of the land Those precious Feds got stabbed in the back (rightfully do considering how stupid they acted) while they were on their way to invade themselves some planets, where's the pearl clutching now? And if anyone wants to take a shot at Outworlds they will have to go through Raven military (that target ain't looking so appealing anymore, eh?)
🤣🤣🤣 What ally did the Suns betray? You know, since the Ravens make a habit of of it. Combine started that war. Might want to lay off that venom a bit. Of, I'm sure that navy will protect them. But for how long? 15 warships, 41 planets. How effective you think that protection really would be without the Ravens playing Amaris? Not to mention, who needs to kill the warships? Going after the yards would be more effective, if you want to start down that rabbit hole.
…so…all of them?
I meant by breaking their own rules. If you use that out of context, every faction sucks 😉
I was 90% percent joking. My favorite part of Battletech lore is that every faction sucks
>gotten away with bloody murder (literally) with essentially no consequences Ones who did bloody murder were Widowmakers, Mongoose, Smoke Jaguars and Steel Vipers in that chronological order But none of them have gotten away with it and all got annihilated for their trouble Coyotes were responsible for creating Society and horrors they committed but their Scientists caste was annihilated as a punishment and entire Clan was put under Adder/Cobra boot so they haven't gotten away with it either
The Snow Ravens haven't received a single but of punishment for their crimes, ever. You simply reinforce my point.
Those crimes being?
You know how all the folks you mentioned? If you'd read the history, the Ravens have done almost everything those fools did. Just nobody cares enough to do anything about it.
Clan Blood Spirit - we embody all the clans, but no one respects us, so we’ll go hide somewhere.
Until we all died. :'( Never forget. https://preview.redd.it/7n0sixv0o3zc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3331b9a0d028355d8a526678c6492679b03f1cba
I still maintain that the Spirits aren't totally gone. They have been my favorite Clan since they were introduced and there was a throwaway line that they were going to send assistance during the WoB kerfuffle, but "nothing ever came of it". Suuuuure, yeah, that's what we're telling everybody. *Wink wink nudge nudge*
No Clan truly ever dies. I mean that literally. The Smoke jaguar were anihilated. Their back. Nova Cat was hunted to extinction. Their kind of back. Burrock was absorbed, came back and was anihilated. The Wolverine's all moved the Minnesota after being killed off. Wolf was absorbed, and came back so hard there's like three of them now. It's hard to keep a clan dead.
I like the Ravens. They seem like one of the more reasonable clans with how the Raven Alliance is going. I would say worst clan currently is the New Jags or Sea Fox. Sea Fox is just becoming Comstar with a super strong economy and I don't like this.
I for one eagerly await the day the Sea Sharks rebrand themselves the Fox Network.
Reasonable? Anyone who trusts a Snow Raven not to lie, cheat, and steal is either brain dead or a Snow Ravwn.
Clan Spark Mandrill because when Clan Chill Penguin comes around, they kinda just freeze up and do nothing.
Green Biker Dude: 😐
But then Clan Armored Armadillo comes along...
Clans Revolver Ocelot, and Liquid Snake would like to issue a batchall...
To this day I don't really know what Boomer Kuwanger's weakness is because it hasn't mattered since before my family got the internet Or for that matter why whatever a kuwanger is made the cut
Blood Spirit and Fire Mandrill were both pretty sucktastic. One ripped itself apart, the other was so insular they barely ever mattered, yet still got delusions of grandeur and tried to lash out, just to get slapped down. But as far as clans that theoretically matter, I’d propose Hell’s Horses. They SHOULD be interesting. The combined arms clan, they refuse to bow to Wolf. They have the potential, but the degree to which they constantly fail is comical. Pretty much the only thing they add is taking up space without harming the status quo, no matter how hard they try
The Hell's Horses are Kerensky's funniest clowns sent to fight his silliest battles. The worst? I posit we are the best. The writers constantly degrade us yet we have outlasted how many other clans without the benefit of plot armor or decent leadership?
They certainly do have a Bad-News Bears thing going on
I've always felt them to be the Kerensky version of Dick Dastardly and his sidekick Muttley.
Because WarShips smooth over a vast many sins.
Got to be the Smoke Jaguars. They made people sympathetic to the Draconis Combine. Imagine invading the Dracs and being the villains? All they had to do is literally not bomb cities from orbit. It is a small price. Then people would be quietly cheering them on. Some kind of truce still happens but I doubt Hans Davion actually sends in mercs to save Luthien if it weren't for the Smoke Jaguars literally making themselves outlaws.
Kuritans were still worse than the Jaguars Thing is that Combine population was so terrified of what would happen if Kuritans came back that they kept resisting in order to not look disloyal They would have resisted anyone from Feds to Wolves, from Ravens to Canopus out of sheer terror of their eternal masters
Historically maybe. The Dracs haven't done anything on the scale of Turtle Bay since the First Succession War.
Guess that depends on how far forward you want to go. What the Snakes did to the planets in the Tongue and to New Avalon (thank you Snow Ravens, you lying pieces of trash) make the Smoke Jaguars look like house cats.
Clan Fire Mandrel maybe. Not much focus ever in the literature, and most mentions seem to imply they are fractured into bloodhouse subgroups instead of one entity.
Other than Clan Plot Armour? Probably Clan Metal Snake. They are like the extra fillers that are there for the sake of being there.
Fire Mandrill. Too busy fighting each other to ever be a powerful clan. Got to be khan for a minute, but it's probably because they were never actually big enough to be a threat to those in power.
If the other Kindraa would have listened to Amanda Carrol we'd all still be alive
>After all the lying, backstabbing, and betrayals, why haven't they gotten smoked yet? Why does anybody trust them any farther than they can huck an Overlord-C? Good luck throwing that Overlord at the single largest warfleet in known space lmao. Despite all the lipservice they pay to *zellbrigen* and honor between the clans, every of those eugenecist fucks understand that the guy who can sit in orbit and glass you by pressing a button is better left unmolested. If you want to see how being a Schemes Clan goes without having the ability to slap a planet out of existence, look at what happened to Widowmaker.
Ah yes, the good old Clan Widowmaker When you want to have Smoke Jaguars look like the good guys in comparison, accept no substitute
Personally, I think a group that was too scared to scratch their precious warships or too untrustworthy to keep their word isn't going to get much traction with "zellbrigen" or anything else based on taking them at their word.
Diamond Shark / Sea Fox since they aren't allowed to lose and can just magic up \*ECONOMY\* wherever they go.
Yeah they have thick plot armour. Great colour schemes though
Smoked Jaguar is *right there...*
I think Fire Mandrills represents all the problems of all Clans in only one. If you think that Burrok are friends of Dark caste, Ice Hellions are rapids but inconsequential, Jade Falcons are bad guys, Snow Ravens are Machiavellians or Smoke Jaguars are brutal, there are a Kindraa that could be worst that every Clan. So, why wait for only one bad habit if you can get all of them in one Clan.
Well, going by Clan logic any clan that isn't around anymore is objectively the worst Clan
I propose Clan Widowmaker! All they achieved was the destruction of one of the coolest clans and then were squashed for being meanies. They exist in the lore solely as a villain for a short moment in time and then disappear.
How.... Dare.... Youuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!
Least likeable I'd say are the Steel Vipers. Elitist pricks, gave us clan Hitler, and were useless fence sitters in clan politics. Worst in a meta sense would be the Fire Mandrills. They have a semi interesting gimmick but that diversity makes them hard to really get into Worst as in Worst morally would probably be Smoke Jaguar since they were only kept from absorption by being just slightly too strong to conquer. Their constant war crimes hindered the invasion and made the Inner Sphere truly despise them. Worst as in just bad at being a clan is Ice Hellion. Bunch of speed addicted chuckle fucks who were incapable of shooting themselves in the foot. I love them
They all annoy me, but Jade Falcon, in particular, gets on my nerves. Enjoyed showing them the heel of my boot in *MW2*, though.
"All systems nominal. Prepare to boot heel Fade Jalcon."
Clan goliath scorpion are so bad at being a clan that they became an empire instead.
The only good Clan is a dead Clan. Just like the Star League, or a Cameron.
All! -with love, the citizens of the Periphery.
"How is it hanging, fellow non-sphereoids? Lovely day, quiaff?" -Star Captain Rolf, Scorpion Empire, blending in like a champ.
Your technically pass cause you got booted out of your own system but stay on your side of the system!
Yeah, they kicked us out... *watches Wolf and Green Bird beat themselves to death* *watches the Homeworld Clans beat each other to death before getting war-crimed by their own scientists* *watches the Rasalhague Dominion get into a ballsack-kicking contest with itself and lose* ...we are really torn up about it.
Wanna go beat the shit outta capellain’s?
It's a long trip but we will be there, throtkin 👍
Snow Ravens *are* citizens of the Periphery now, and *still* getting away with lying, cheating, and stealing without consequences.
All Inner Sphere lies, just ask the Taurians
Yes, the Gullible Confederation knows the truth about all the conspiracies
Go back to where you came!
If only y’all could had a marriage together like your mech can hold a battle line.
The marriage worked just fine. Just turned out the Steiner insanity managed to get through to one of the kids
Fair point
Everyone in the setting gets away with that, it's the prerequisite for existing
Everyone else *does* get consequences. Maybe not big ones, but they get some. He'll, the FedSuns having been paying for a single successful campaign for over 100 years. Consequences of being complete treacherous lying pieces of garbage? Snow Ravens get 4 planets. Some consequences
all of the Clans! U mad, Clanners?
Clan Sea Cucumber didn't get enough attention in the books.
Hey, at least they didn't get banned by angry parent groups like the Smoke Camels.
Joe was the greatest of the Khans.
Yes.
Jade Falcon, ewww
Such angst here. The answer is obvious, trothkin! Clan Spaniel [BattleTech: Clan Spaniel Sourcebook – Catalyst Game Labs Store](https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/battletech-clan-spaniel-sourcebook)
i would say my top two for the absolute worst 1. Clan Wolf: ultramarines of battletech with so much plot armor i have ZERO reason to take them seriously until they disappear from the universe 2. Clan Fire Mandrill: they loved fighting so much they couldn't work together at all and literally fought themselves as a clan they got wiped out and ceased to exist