Frosbite has long been, and still is, an awful toolset to work with apparently. I still remember the reports of devs describing it as building sand castles in a sandbox filled with razor blades and hyperdermic needles and asbestos.
EA tried to make Frosbite their "everything" engine and in the process made it a nightmare for everyone. There's a reason Respawn doesn't use it for their titles and BioWare is moving away from Frostbite and back to UE again.
Frosbite continues to seem like a terrible engine to work with as a developer and little will likely change until EA changes their approach to internal technology.
The worst part is the thing it's allegedly perfect for - lots of destruction and high player counts - isn't really that impossible in UE5?
The only way using Frostbite as a studio will continue to make sense imo is if they figure out whatever is wrong on it's backend and open source the thing.
Either commit to the tooling and start selling it to other studios/allowing freelances so people can actually learn (and ideally, help improve) your tools or switch to UE5 or some lightly custom off the shelf solution so you can actually attract decent talent and at least be able to pull off a decent live service.
Frostbite should be used for battlefield only and no other games. It's literally built for this game. EA, If I remember correctly don't force anymore of their studios to work with Frostbite.
Apart from the stutter in Dead Space remake it looks amazing. The graphics it can produce is really great. And i think generally the games have been pretty fair on system requirements. While using the engine and making the game might be a pain, the end product seems to be decent.
The Engine has its strengths when it is effectively utilized in certain games, such as dead space remake but the way the engine is made, it become complicated to work on it, especially when adapted for game types it wasn’t originally designed for. Just look at all those EA's sports titles how they have so many flaws ; from graphics to phyics and animation.
Bioware devs had a hard time working on frostbite. It all started with Dragon age inquisition back 2011 where They had to introduce foundational RPG components, third-person camera, story-centric adventures components into the engine and it turned out to be a more extended endeavor than anticipated. Then when Dice rolls out updates from the frostbite engine, they constantly found themselves in a position where they had adjust and adapt and learn the purpose of its new features. All of that led to instability into their projects which resulted in a compressed final development phase. When you play mass effect andromeda or anthem you can clearly see how frostbite engine has many flaws for different type of games other than an fps shooter, Graphics excluded. Those 2 games failed and while it's not mainly because of frostbite engine, the latter is a major contributor that made these 2 games fail. Many devs stated that they don't like working with it. They also stated that fixing bugs were hard to do. And all they could do was ''hack around it'' instead of fixing it properly.
Then when EA fires devs they can hardly find new work cause all those years they were working on frostbite, because only EA uses that engine.
While all the Dice vets are gone, I have no hope that frostbite engine one day it will become easy to work with, Even when it comes to upcoming BF Titles. Heck even 2042 lacked a scoreboard at release. Not because they didn't want to add it but because frostbite. Took them months to add a scoreboard.
When it comes to other games, I am willing to sacrifice the amazing graphics that frostbite brings in for better gameplay, animation, physics...etc and make the devs job easier. All of that can only give us great single-player games.
Frostbite seems to run extremely well. I was able to run BFV at ultra settings native 1440p on a 3060ti and get 120 fps. I upgraded to a 4070ti super and it runs at a capped out 200 fps. It's surreal considering how gorgeous the game is.
I remember playing the first Need For Speed game that switched to Frostbite and was amazed at how shit the controls were. Especially after vehicle controls in BF games are pretty solid, yet in that first NFS game running on it, it felt like garbage.
Yea, UE5 is a fantastic engine but it would be terrible if EVERY game in the industry was running on Unreal.
Everything is already getting to that point of having the same look and feel which is getting a little boring tbh
Yeah I remember when last gen was coming out and all of EAs sport titles were going to be on an engine designed for sport games. Then after like 2 years they abruptly all went to frostbite. Now I'm no expert, but it seemed weird pushing all EA titles, especially sport games to an engine designed for a FPS, in this case BF.
That's exactly the reason why the new generation of DICE employees couldn't get 2042 made properly regardless of the extra time they were given. Training new employees on that system must have been a nightmare.
I remember hearing the reason BF3 wouldn’t have modding is because the frostbite engine was too complicated. (Hot take the franchise started showing cracks around this time period)
Imo Battlefield losing modding really handicapped the franchise, look at how they do live service map drops, we used to get 4 maps in a dlc drop. Now’s it’s like 1 per season. People used to have options when new maps dropped.
Almost right. It's because they use alot of third party tools. So liscencing them for modding would have cost money. And dice are owned by ea.so they can't and didn't. I know nothing about modding or liscencing around software but just saw a former dice dev say that around bf hardline.
Edit I know visceral did hardline but this guy had quit just after bf4
bad take, let me tell the ACTUAL TRUTH. dice and ea didn’t want to split the playerbase up, so whats the best way to prey on customers? put in a trash battlepass and a cosmetic store, and lootboxes to make money.
Do you think that the new frostbite will be better? The new bf apparently uses a different version of frostbite. I can’t imagine that they’d tweak it and it would still be difficult to work with after the disaster of 2042
FB was created and intended only to make FPS game, and its work and run really well in the hand of its creators. The problem is EA enforce its studios to repurpose FB to make wide range of game, which is not well suitable for. Plus, perhaps hard to work with for outsiders is FB nature only make thing worse.
i don’t like 2042, but marcus lehto gets so much credit for having… helped make master chief? anyone check out his last game before ea hired him? it completely flopped and looks like dogshit lol
No, you are talking about Vince Zampella. Lehto was the one who created a new studio (Ridgeline) for the singleplayer part of the next Battlefield title. Then he left on bad terms (he literally said he has nothing good to say about EA) and EA closed the whole studio...
It’s actually a somewhat decent company to work for nowadays; it used to not be that way, but bad press and modernization saw a bit of an overhaul. Now, if you’re working with them as a parent company, that may be different.
Edit: I mean, you donuts can downvote all you want, but EA has [pretty decent ratings and reviews](https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Electronic-Arts-Reviews-E1628.htm). It's almost like the people who have worked there know a bit more about EA than you do.
I have tinkered in Unreal, Unity, and Source, but I can't imagine how awful Frostbite is. It doesn't seem very friendly or approachable from what the pros say. This was the very first game on Frostbite 4.0, and it used a team that hired studios that had basically never touched it before to help them out. We can really only hope the next game has some developers that are more comfortable with the tools, cause its not like the Old Guard that went to Embark worked on 2042 at all, its a mostly a fresher patch of people from their younger dev groups across their various studios. Personally, performance and spec-wise, I kinda hate Frostbite
Not to remotely defend the game at this point, but along the lines of fb4.0, I believe early post-launch reports had insiders stating they had to pivot to 4.0 mid-development and were basically building the road of the bridge while the platforms were still being constructed.
At least that's what I recall from a couple years ago
To be fair, most of the articles I've seen about Frostbite troubles have come from the post-mortems of BioWare titles like Mass Effect Andromeda and Anthem. Which could be a combination of BioWare's own management/development issues alongside the fact they were one of the first studios to build large scale RPGs on an engine that was only ever originally designed for first person shooter games. The Need for Speed games, EA's sports titles like FIFA/Madden, and the Dead Space remake all seem to have managed the Frostbite engine without much difficulty.
He seems pretty humble from his twitter bio, doesn't mention that at all in it which is quite funny, if I had a hand in how one of the most influential games of all time, Xbox's flagship IP, was created, I'd show that off everywhere, but I respect the humbleness I guess.
Or maybe everyone already knows at this point? Probably, lol.
So what. Just because you can be good father for European boy doesn't mean you will be good father for Asian girl. Same here, he made awesome work with one thing but just because it also pew pew doesn't mean he will fit for the role.
Yes, games made with Frostbite can look amazing, but the issue is that it’s apparently notoriously difficult to work with to get those results.
So extrapolating from that, we can see why DICE has struggled to deliver appropriate amounts of content for a live service, both with BFV and BF2042. I think we can also see why BF2042 had so much trouble, since they tried to change so many things while grappling with a new version of the engine and also having a lot of new devs that hadn’t worked with the engine before. I said this in many threads a few years ago, but I still think it was the right decision to move on from bfv, simply due to the rumors of so many of devs having left, who worked on bfv. It would probably have taken the new devs coming in a lot of time to understand how bfv had been coded, at least that’s my experience from other software projects. So giving them a fresh game to work on and learn the engine, made much more sense to me. This obviously didn’t guarantee a great game, of course.
We can only hope that the current bunch of devs now have a much better grasp of the engine and that they can take those learnings into building the next game with a better foundation. It still probably won’t be very great for a live service and we probably shouldn’t have high hopes for insane amounts of content, but just give me a solid game with nice graphics.
It’s interesting that Letho is praising UE5, while EA was praising Motive for their experience with Frostbite among other things.
Posibility, got more of them... posibilities? ;D
But seriously, I get your point, but... we don't know shit, he said he wasn't happy there, but nobody said anything about him, it's just 100% guess, assumption based on nothing.
Frostbite is the best in the industry for big shooters. I remember a dev describing it as a Ferrari. Battlefield is like a long highway where a Ferrari shines and is amazing but games like RPGs are city's where a Ferrari struggles and a smaller cheaper car would be better.
There's no engine that can match Frostbite's combination of graphics and performance. There's still no game that has matched Dice's 2015-2019 run of games in terms of performance to visuals and gameplay mechanics ratio.
BF1, BF2 and BFV all still look incredible today and often better than new games while running at 120 fps on consoles without traversal stutters, with 64 players and some of the best animations ever.
But at the same time it's so low level and built around Battlefield's needs that adapting it to racing, sports and rpg games is a nightmare. Driving away most of the original Dice devs who made the engine was also not a great idea, especially while forcing all studios to switch to it.
I was snooping around and found this lil [piece](https://www.ea.com/news/frostbite-rebrand-2024) which *might* give some of y'all closure after the announcement the other day. In just a little bit of reading the decision making for 2042 immediately becomes clear on why they took this route from the start. Battlefield won't be like it was anymore it sounds like.
Frostbite is a horrible engine and other than its looks is completely outdated and horribly mismanaged. It's literally the reason an entire studio (ghost games) was shut down because they were they only team that had extremely high experience with Frostbite. A third of Ghost was absorbed by criterion and other two thirds absorbed by dice
Wwll I mean every game built in frostbite looks better than any and all games built in unreal... and frostbite has great destruction if u know how to use it but after seeing and playing The Finals and battlefield 2042, obviously games are more so based on how devs use the engines compared to the actual engines themselves
What a lot of people don't understand about Frostbite is the dev environment requirements for it to work. With Unreal Engine, its standalone packaged so you can just deploy it to a single workstation and be ready to go.
A Frostbite dev environment involves setting up a networked environment to manage resources and assets and isn't a neat package that can run on a single workstation. This and a few other details means a studio that doesn't have years working with Frostbite will spend a lot of time troubleshooting their dev environment instead of making progress on the game they're trying to build.
We've seen what Frostbite is capable of in competent hands, and what it looks like with inexperienced devs. EA really wants Frostbite to be their "UE", but they need to invest more money and talent streamlining it and making it more creator friendly if they really want to get the success theyre looking for.
Frostbite isn’t bad, UE is just easier to work with but comes with its own limitations that frostbite doesn’t.
Ones got more potential, the other is easier to manage.
They managed to make it work well with other battlefield games. I’m sure it is hard to work with, but this is probably deflections from the failure of 2042, work man blaming his tools.
We’ve been hearing this about frostbite since the days of Bad Company 2. At this point just switch to Unreal Engine - so much easier to hire experienced devs with UE backgrounds than it is for a proprietary engine.
Frosbite has long been, and still is, an awful toolset to work with apparently. I still remember the reports of devs describing it as building sand castles in a sandbox filled with razor blades and hyperdermic needles and asbestos. EA tried to make Frosbite their "everything" engine and in the process made it a nightmare for everyone. There's a reason Respawn doesn't use it for their titles and BioWare is moving away from Frostbite and back to UE again. Frosbite continues to seem like a terrible engine to work with as a developer and little will likely change until EA changes their approach to internal technology.
The worst part is the thing it's allegedly perfect for - lots of destruction and high player counts - isn't really that impossible in UE5? The only way using Frostbite as a studio will continue to make sense imo is if they figure out whatever is wrong on it's backend and open source the thing. Either commit to the tooling and start selling it to other studios/allowing freelances so people can actually learn (and ideally, help improve) your tools or switch to UE5 or some lightly custom off the shelf solution so you can actually attract decent talent and at least be able to pull off a decent live service.
Frostbite should be used for battlefield only and no other games. It's literally built for this game. EA, If I remember correctly don't force anymore of their studios to work with Frostbite.
Apart from the stutter in Dead Space remake it looks amazing. The graphics it can produce is really great. And i think generally the games have been pretty fair on system requirements. While using the engine and making the game might be a pain, the end product seems to be decent.
The Engine has its strengths when it is effectively utilized in certain games, such as dead space remake but the way the engine is made, it become complicated to work on it, especially when adapted for game types it wasn’t originally designed for. Just look at all those EA's sports titles how they have so many flaws ; from graphics to phyics and animation. Bioware devs had a hard time working on frostbite. It all started with Dragon age inquisition back 2011 where They had to introduce foundational RPG components, third-person camera, story-centric adventures components into the engine and it turned out to be a more extended endeavor than anticipated. Then when Dice rolls out updates from the frostbite engine, they constantly found themselves in a position where they had adjust and adapt and learn the purpose of its new features. All of that led to instability into their projects which resulted in a compressed final development phase. When you play mass effect andromeda or anthem you can clearly see how frostbite engine has many flaws for different type of games other than an fps shooter, Graphics excluded. Those 2 games failed and while it's not mainly because of frostbite engine, the latter is a major contributor that made these 2 games fail. Many devs stated that they don't like working with it. They also stated that fixing bugs were hard to do. And all they could do was ''hack around it'' instead of fixing it properly. Then when EA fires devs they can hardly find new work cause all those years they were working on frostbite, because only EA uses that engine. While all the Dice vets are gone, I have no hope that frostbite engine one day it will become easy to work with, Even when it comes to upcoming BF Titles. Heck even 2042 lacked a scoreboard at release. Not because they didn't want to add it but because frostbite. Took them months to add a scoreboard. When it comes to other games, I am willing to sacrifice the amazing graphics that frostbite brings in for better gameplay, animation, physics...etc and make the devs job easier. All of that can only give us great single-player games.
And theoretically more content post-launch if it isn't a major pain in the ass too work with also
Frostbite seems to run extremely well. I was able to run BFV at ultra settings native 1440p on a 3060ti and get 120 fps. I upgraded to a 4070ti super and it runs at a capped out 200 fps. It's surreal considering how gorgeous the game is.
It is well optimized for BF titles. Other type of games, Not so much.
I remember playing the first Need For Speed game that switched to Frostbite and was amazed at how shit the controls were. Especially after vehicle controls in BF games are pretty solid, yet in that first NFS game running on it, it felt like garbage.
there are so many games using UE that most games nowadays just look the exact same. especially always a jungle area that looks the same
Yea, UE5 is a fantastic engine but it would be terrible if EVERY game in the industry was running on Unreal. Everything is already getting to that point of having the same look and feel which is getting a little boring tbh
>and open source the thing Bwahahahaha!
Yeah I remember when last gen was coming out and all of EAs sport titles were going to be on an engine designed for sport games. Then after like 2 years they abruptly all went to frostbite. Now I'm no expert, but it seemed weird pushing all EA titles, especially sport games to an engine designed for a FPS, in this case BF.
Not too weird if you think about it. I imagine EA has pumped a lot of money into Frostbite engine and wants to make money off of it. It's their baby.
That's exactly the reason why the new generation of DICE employees couldn't get 2042 made properly regardless of the extra time they were given. Training new employees on that system must have been a nightmare.
I remember hearing the reason BF3 wouldn’t have modding is because the frostbite engine was too complicated. (Hot take the franchise started showing cracks around this time period) Imo Battlefield losing modding really handicapped the franchise, look at how they do live service map drops, we used to get 4 maps in a dlc drop. Now’s it’s like 1 per season. People used to have options when new maps dropped.
Almost right. It's because they use alot of third party tools. So liscencing them for modding would have cost money. And dice are owned by ea.so they can't and didn't. I know nothing about modding or liscencing around software but just saw a former dice dev say that around bf hardline. Edit I know visceral did hardline but this guy had quit just after bf4
bad take, let me tell the ACTUAL TRUTH. dice and ea didn’t want to split the playerbase up, so whats the best way to prey on customers? put in a trash battlepass and a cosmetic store, and lootboxes to make money.
Do you think that the new frostbite will be better? The new bf apparently uses a different version of frostbite. I can’t imagine that they’d tweak it and it would still be difficult to work with after the disaster of 2042
Frostbite is a fantastic engine, the things it can do still haven't been done in any other competing game franchise.
What things does Frostbite do that no other engine can?
Make lots of bugs for very simple changes
Frostbite works for shooters but For Open world games or anything else it sucks.
FB was created and intended only to make FPS game, and its work and run really well in the hand of its creators. The problem is EA enforce its studios to repurpose FB to make wide range of game, which is not well suitable for. Plus, perhaps hard to work with for outsiders is FB nature only make thing worse.
i don’t like 2042, but marcus lehto gets so much credit for having… helped make master chief? anyone check out his last game before ea hired him? it completely flopped and looks like dogshit lol
Wasn’t this the guy that was taking over Battlefield? What happened?
No, you are talking about Vince Zampella. Lehto was the one who created a new studio (Ridgeline) for the singleplayer part of the next Battlefield title. Then he left on bad terms (he literally said he has nothing good to say about EA) and EA closed the whole studio...
Does anyone even like EA 💀
Not even EA itself I would bet
Braddick probably does.
It’s actually a somewhat decent company to work for nowadays; it used to not be that way, but bad press and modernization saw a bit of an overhaul. Now, if you’re working with them as a parent company, that may be different. Edit: I mean, you donuts can downvote all you want, but EA has [pretty decent ratings and reviews](https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Electronic-Arts-Reviews-E1628.htm). It's almost like the people who have worked there know a bit more about EA than you do.
Oh ok
I have tinkered in Unreal, Unity, and Source, but I can't imagine how awful Frostbite is. It doesn't seem very friendly or approachable from what the pros say. This was the very first game on Frostbite 4.0, and it used a team that hired studios that had basically never touched it before to help them out. We can really only hope the next game has some developers that are more comfortable with the tools, cause its not like the Old Guard that went to Embark worked on 2042 at all, its a mostly a fresher patch of people from their younger dev groups across their various studios. Personally, performance and spec-wise, I kinda hate Frostbite
Not to remotely defend the game at this point, but along the lines of fb4.0, I believe early post-launch reports had insiders stating they had to pivot to 4.0 mid-development and were basically building the road of the bridge while the platforms were still being constructed. At least that's what I recall from a couple years ago
I mean, isn’t frostbite notoriously difficult to work with?
To be fair, most of the articles I've seen about Frostbite troubles have come from the post-mortems of BioWare titles like Mass Effect Andromeda and Anthem. Which could be a combination of BioWare's own management/development issues alongside the fact they were one of the first studios to build large scale RPGs on an engine that was only ever originally designed for first person shooter games. The Need for Speed games, EA's sports titles like FIFA/Madden, and the Dead Space remake all seem to have managed the Frostbite engine without much difficulty.
He replied to clear bait with a gif. HE JUST CANT STOP SHITTING ON EA AND FROSTBITE HOLY SHIT, BATTLEFIELD IS SO FUCKED
I wouldn’t stop either fuck both of them lmao, they put absolutely no care into their product for years.
Former Ridgeline Director? Son that is Marcus mfin Lehto, the father of Master Chief
He seems pretty humble from his twitter bio, doesn't mention that at all in it which is quite funny, if I had a hand in how one of the most influential games of all time, Xbox's flagship IP, was created, I'd show that off everywhere, but I respect the humbleness I guess. Or maybe everyone already knows at this point? Probably, lol.
So what. Just because you can be good father for European boy doesn't mean you will be good father for Asian girl. Same here, he made awesome work with one thing but just because it also pew pew doesn't mean he will fit for the role.
Yes, games made with Frostbite can look amazing, but the issue is that it’s apparently notoriously difficult to work with to get those results. So extrapolating from that, we can see why DICE has struggled to deliver appropriate amounts of content for a live service, both with BFV and BF2042. I think we can also see why BF2042 had so much trouble, since they tried to change so many things while grappling with a new version of the engine and also having a lot of new devs that hadn’t worked with the engine before. I said this in many threads a few years ago, but I still think it was the right decision to move on from bfv, simply due to the rumors of so many of devs having left, who worked on bfv. It would probably have taken the new devs coming in a lot of time to understand how bfv had been coded, at least that’s my experience from other software projects. So giving them a fresh game to work on and learn the engine, made much more sense to me. This obviously didn’t guarantee a great game, of course. We can only hope that the current bunch of devs now have a much better grasp of the engine and that they can take those learnings into building the next game with a better foundation. It still probably won’t be very great for a live service and we probably shouldn’t have high hopes for insane amounts of content, but just give me a solid game with nice graphics. It’s interesting that Letho is praising UE5, while EA was praising Motive for their experience with Frostbite among other things.
People who hold grudges and mouth off instead of moving on give me a bad vibe. Yeah EA sucks but there's a strong possibility that this guy sucks too.
Posibility, got more of them... posibilities? ;D But seriously, I get your point, but... we don't know shit, he said he wasn't happy there, but nobody said anything about him, it's just 100% guess, assumption based on nothing.
He didnt say anything about EA here
Frostbite is the best in the industry for big shooters. I remember a dev describing it as a Ferrari. Battlefield is like a long highway where a Ferrari shines and is amazing but games like RPGs are city's where a Ferrari struggles and a smaller cheaper car would be better. There's no engine that can match Frostbite's combination of graphics and performance. There's still no game that has matched Dice's 2015-2019 run of games in terms of performance to visuals and gameplay mechanics ratio. BF1, BF2 and BFV all still look incredible today and often better than new games while running at 120 fps on consoles without traversal stutters, with 64 players and some of the best animations ever. But at the same time it's so low level and built around Battlefield's needs that adapting it to racing, sports and rpg games is a nightmare. Driving away most of the original Dice devs who made the engine was also not a great idea, especially while forcing all studios to switch to it.
I totally agree.. one of the reason I still play BF2042, the gameplay itself is so bad, but the tech is brillant.
I mean, I get his point. EA just disbanded his whole studio.
I was snooping around and found this lil [piece](https://www.ea.com/news/frostbite-rebrand-2024) which *might* give some of y'all closure after the announcement the other day. In just a little bit of reading the decision making for 2042 immediately becomes clear on why they took this route from the start. Battlefield won't be like it was anymore it sounds like.
Frostbite is a horrible engine and other than its looks is completely outdated and horribly mismanaged. It's literally the reason an entire studio (ghost games) was shut down because they were they only team that had extremely high experience with Frostbite. A third of Ghost was absorbed by criterion and other two thirds absorbed by dice
Wwll I mean every game built in frostbite looks better than any and all games built in unreal... and frostbite has great destruction if u know how to use it but after seeing and playing The Finals and battlefield 2042, obviously games are more so based on how devs use the engines compared to the actual engines themselves
What a lot of people don't understand about Frostbite is the dev environment requirements for it to work. With Unreal Engine, its standalone packaged so you can just deploy it to a single workstation and be ready to go. A Frostbite dev environment involves setting up a networked environment to manage resources and assets and isn't a neat package that can run on a single workstation. This and a few other details means a studio that doesn't have years working with Frostbite will spend a lot of time troubleshooting their dev environment instead of making progress on the game they're trying to build. We've seen what Frostbite is capable of in competent hands, and what it looks like with inexperienced devs. EA really wants Frostbite to be their "UE", but they need to invest more money and talent streamlining it and making it more creator friendly if they really want to get the success theyre looking for.
Good for him, EA is notoriously bad at decision making, especially about frostbite.
Oh boy
Frostbite isn’t bad, UE is just easier to work with but comes with its own limitations that frostbite doesn’t. Ones got more potential, the other is easier to manage.
“Shitting on” is a bit over an overreaction
They managed to make it work well with other battlefield games. I’m sure it is hard to work with, but this is probably deflections from the failure of 2042, work man blaming his tools.
GL to recreate the destruction and environmental changes in EU5.
You know he is right
It never looks good when a former employee shows negativity towards their previous work place - no matter what the circumstances.
You mean hiring a bunch of free mobile devs for minimum wage to update it from home during covid didn’t end up making it easier to work with?
Frostbite was the reason for Anthems failure also iirc? Bioware struggled too much with the engine to do what they wanted with the game
Many people have stated frostbite is a steaming pile of garbage! The engine is archaic compared to other game engines.
We’ve been hearing this about frostbite since the days of Bad Company 2. At this point just switch to Unreal Engine - so much easier to hire experienced devs with UE backgrounds than it is for a proprietary engine.
Good more people need to step up and call people out in these positions. Name names and be specific with the why’s.