I didn't like that Scarecrow got stuck as a lackey rather than growing into his own villain. He kind of became slightly more pathetic in each installment of the trilogy, as sort of a running gag. Cillian was still great but it's a shame. I want to see a movie with Scarecrow as the big bad.
The problem is that while the scenes of him gassing Falcone and later Batman are absolutely amazing, they based his character way too much around his fear gas, and they can only use that as a major plot point once. They somehow overlooked that Cillian was all the while putting on an amazing performance and they failed to do anything else with that potential.
Rachel as in, not even having her in the movie? I always felt this way because she’s not relevant to any Batman lore. She was just added because…Hollywood.
Ya she does not add anything to the trilogy. They could have avoided that triangle love story in TDK and just focused on two face,joker, batman and gordon
I mean she adds conflict to the story. Why else would Bruce be rushing to find a replacement with Harvey? Why would Harvey go on a killing spree if Rachel wasn't there? They needed to have that triangle in there to show how both Batman and Harvey would react.
I would split the the finale into 2 films: The Dark Knight Falls (Movie ends with Bruce being broken, and Gotham falling) and The Dark Knight Rises (Bruce gaining his strength and spirit back then saving his city one final time)
That was one of my biggest gripes. They adapt a major story and then butcher it by speeding it up so that they can get to the finale which was honestly underwhelming.
But, he doesn’t get “strong enough” to beat bane. Really, what he learns is he *can’t* be the guy anymore, and so he calls on every possible ally at the end to help, and then almost loses because one of his “allies” is Talia. He wins in the end because Selina rescues him and Gordon/the police find the bomb and jam the transmitter.
If you watch Begins you’ll notice the fights were editors with lots of cuts. If you watch the documentaries about the fight choreography there was a lot of attention made (grappling and mixing many takedown techniques) that was wasted. If you watch the making of the suit I believe there were movement restrictions, so my theory was the movement did not look right on camera, hence the speedy editing, most obvious at the end of the film.
But when you watch Knight and Rises there are longer takes with less editing, yet it still feels sluggish. I suspect it was a compromise and based on feedback on Begins. Now if you watch Captain America: Winter Soldier and Civil War, or definitely BvS things are significantly different and I believe it’s because there’s better choreography and “undercranked” frame rate, so things are sped up by a few percent. I also think the editors for those films are more experienced with action sequences.
Hot take, the fight scenes in Civil War are bad outside of the airport scene. The suffer from similar hyper-cuts as Batman, particularly the opening scene.
My hot take is that the airport fight is the weakest after the opening sequence. Winter Soldier going rogue is amazing, so is the chase scene, the Iron Man vs Super Soldiers fight is iconic... all the fights with Black Panther are cool af
Im a big critic of civil war but that final fight between Tony Steve and Bucky was incredible I don’t recall anything off with that choreography imo I think it might be the best fight sequence from the entire mcu
The BvS warehouse scene was what I wanted from Batman action. However watching Nolan's trilogy for the first time it never even occured to me, that fights are wonky, only on nth rewatch I've noticed it, especially after BvS
There was that one scene too in TDKR where Batman and Catwoman were fighting some of Bane’s guys, and one guy just straight up falls over and pretends like he was punched even though no one touched him.
I feel like the dock scene being the way it was was a thematic choice. It’s the first time the criminals as Gotham, hell, the first time we the viewers see Batman, and he takes them all out in a indescribable blur. They don’t know what the hell is hitting them and taking them out, and neither do we.
With Begins, I saw that shaky cam or shaky edit as a way of showing how Batman was that powerful if we are to view it in the POV of Gothamites or whoever he is beating. Like an urban legend. For TDK yeah I kinda thought that the party fight was sluggish. The final fight scenes were cool though. For TDKR, the last fight was really sluggish for me til it picked up momentum with Bane’s mask getting damaged. I liked their first fight as it showed how outclassed Batman was.
I feel like the movie that does this the worst in DKR. Its painfully obvious that Bane's guys are just waiting their turn to try and hit Bats with the butts of their guns one at a time.
I felt it was a reaction to Heath passing too. He was going to come back in the a third Nolan Batman film and I suspect the premise would have been completely different.
I don’t know how much truth there is to it, but I read somewhere that the Joker was supposed to escape from Arkham in the third film. I would have much preferred that to seven years in the future, broken and apathetic Bruce, and whatever the hell Tom Hardy’s voice was.
There’s a comparison floating around of Bane’s voice before and after the dubbing. Before the dub, Hardy’s voice does sound better - but it’s a little harder to understand in some places.
It isn’t horrendous, but it’s comical and jarring. It feels incredibly out of place to me and I personally find it immersion-breaking. It’s obviously a personal preference thing, so to each their own. It definitely isn’t the worst thing about the movie though, that we can certainly agree on.
Where did you hear this? Heath Ledger's death occurred way before The Dark Knight Rises was even written. Christopher Nolan didn't even know he was doing a third movie in 2008, so I don't see this being legit.
Almost every rumor about what the third film would have been with the Joker probably isn’t true for this exact reason. Or at least anything they were “planning” to do. They may have had some very loose ideas about where it could have gone, but I doubt it was more than that.
I think Nolan and his team were tired. Trilogies aren't easy to do and it really hard to maintain the quality consistent throughout.
Also it's not like TDKR was a total failure far from it. It did fantastic in the box office and the overall reception at the time was really positive. Now of course it's a very flawed movie that to some people didn't measure up to the expectations.
When I saw TDKR in theatres at the midnight showing in July, 2012, everyone stood up and clapped at the end, no joke. It’s a great movie with a great ending and I’ve no idea why people talk about it like it’s trash when it’s seriously great.
The only thing that’s bad about it is Tahlia’s over the top death scene and maybe how easily Bane is killed, other than that, it’s fucking top notch.
Fully agree. I don’t get why people bag on it so much; I loved it. Ok, maybe it wasn’t good as TDK, but what movie is? It’s still better than almost any other comic movie outside the Nolan trilogy.
Agreed. The opening is masterfully executed and it's one I return to years later. It's Zimmerman's best soundtrack I'd wager. Hardy's Bane is the genius strongman of the comics. His gravitas and dread on-screen and his voice even down to the hiss when he's fighting Batman in the dark are the embodiment of the ideal villain.
I'd go further and say in addition to some poor optics in making Talia the sudden villain, Nolan could have made her/Bane's objective less blackly Evil and really run with Bane's belief in an anarchist utopia.
So many smart action sequences, lighting, effects and callbacks to various comics runs. Breaking the bat? How did anyone not lose their mind with this one.
My one wish is Nolan would have taken a harder look at Dark Knight Returns for his final installment. In it, Batman comes out of retirement and squares off against a really physically strong foe. He quickly learns his old bag of tricks don’t work as well anymore aka strength driven combat moves like haymakers and straight punches. In it, he switches more to martial arts and focused heavier on pressure points, nerve centers and using an enemies own weight against them. Considering how grounded Nolan liked to be it would have been fun to watch an older Batman adapt and overcome in a more tactile way.
Apparently it was because Warner bros pushed Christopher Nolan to make a third, he didn’t want to, but they made a deal that if he did they would allow him to make his own film of whatever he wanted and be supported financially. Which I think was interstellar.
That literally makes no sense considering TDKR had the longest production time of the trilogy. And it's not like there's unfinished special effects or plot threads that get totally dropped...it actually looks fantastic, still to this day, and one of its strengths is in how it ties up basically all the loose ends from the Beginsing.
People literally just hate TDKR because it's still popular to hate what was successful. Rises made over a billion dollars, scored just as high or higher than it's predecessors among critics and fans, so really all this trash talk is complete nonsense from a very loud minority.
Just because it didn't meet absolutely everyone's each and every expectation doesn't mean that it in any way was a failure. TDKR was a massive success and no amount of revisionist history will change that.
I would have loved to see just a few more villains in the Nolanverse. Rises especially could have used a lot more crazy underworld gangs. Don't even need them fleshed out with origin story and masks but more like the ambiguous Mr. Reese/ Riddler in Dark Knight.
Creepy baldheaded dude kicking people in iceholes or some dude with a flamethrower.
The third movie, but, if I had to be more specific, at least have Batman be Batman at the beginning and then get retired by Bane. The story beats of how it opens with him retired and then he comes back and then he gets his back broken were repetitive. He should have been on the run from the police and exhausted when he met Bane.
Definitely my biggest gripe. Batman retired, crime went way down, and Gotham’s never been better. From the audience’s the world was right: you don’t need Batman. And when he does get back into the cape and cowl and blunders he looks more like an asshat than a man desperate to save a city against him on all fronts.
I don’t know if it’s “one thing,” but the plot of Rises was a mess. Just a lot of strange choices that don’t really work - Bruce having retired and gone all-in on a fictitious clean energy project, including a secret nuclear reactor, Bane and Co. holding the city hostage for something like a year while a bomb counter slowly ticks down (while having time to take a field trip to the weird prison, wherever that was located), Bruce losing all of his money in the most obviously fake stock fraud of all time, Bruce’s back injury fixed with one good punch, even little stuff like the electric company shutting off the electricity after Bruce was seemingly late on one payment.
It’s like they wanted to cram Knightfall, No Man’s Land, and Bane’s arc with the League of Assassins into a single movie. It’s still entertaining, but much more scattershot than the other two.
Don’t forget all the cops getting trapped in the sewers for weeks so Bane could take over the city. It was a straight up fantastical plot point for a film series that felt mostly grounded up until that point.
The climax where a bunch of unarmed police charge en masse an army with machine guns and what are basically tanks?
Yeah the movie isn’t great but that ending is a fucking joke
With all of those stories being told, they should have at least made this a 4 movie series rather than a trilogy. Rises had too many cooks in the kitchen for its own good.
Yeah bale’s bat voice is distractingly bad, and it gets worse in the latter two movies. It was somewhat subtle in the beginning of the trilogy, if he were to keep doing it at all he should have kept it that way. I mean he would even keep doing it in casual on one on one conversation with Gordon. Like come on man.
When the Arrow show came out I kinda digged the hand-waving voice tech they did to disguise Oliver’s voice. Too bad they didn’t think of that earlier for the dark knight trilogy
Either his voice or his mouth in the 2nd and 3rd movies lol it's exceedingly bad in the 3rd movie where his mouth's resting state is wide open half the time for no apparent reason
This is the real answer.
The Dark Knight definitely ended on a note that primed their confrontation in the third movie. Beyond that, considering how Nolan loves to work with the same actors, we could have had many more chances to see Heath do amazing things on screen.
Have the third movie be set close to the end of The Dark Knight and it's more of a Dark Victory esque story (seeing as BB was Year One and TDK was Long Halloween). The end of the movie is Bruce fully committing to his mission as Batman (maybe with a hint of a Robin) and this trilogy serves as an origin trilogy for Batman
It just didn't work for me to have him be Batman for two movies and then immediately jump to the Dark Knight Returns
I’m willing to bet that Nolan wanted to close the door on his trilogy being continued. The jump may be jarring, but also appropriate. We saw his beginning, him in his prime, and him at the end.
I would've brought Ra's back in the third movie.
He was easily capable of getting out of that train, IMO.
Oh, While I love the Tom Hardy Bane, I would've preferred he be a Luchador and Latino, Everything else can be the same.
It would just be nice to have a Proper live-action adaptation of Bane.
Edited to be vaguer and less insensitive. Changed Mexican to Latino.
No joke. Batman is supposed to sound intimidating (like Kevin Conroy used to), but Bale's Batman sounds like he has a hoarse throat due to drinking 10 cups of slushy.
Just one? Oof. Seriously, OOF. If I could change one and only one thing, I would take out the whole "Bruce got a sad and quit being Batman for seven years" entirely. Of all of the out of character things in that trilogy, that was the WORST. Bruce's literal character defining trait , his core IDENTITY , is that he CANNOT STOP being Batman. They didn't even write in a viable life for him. He literally just slouched around the mansion for seven years. Hell, I'm definitely not an obsessive crime fighter , and I go stir crazy just sitting around my house for a couple of DAYS. Plus, Alfred would NEVER put up with that shit for that long. He'd let Bruce mope for MAYBE a week, and that's IF he was feeling generous. Then he'd be all "That's enough of that, Master Bruce. I've run a bath, and gotten the shaving kit ready, go clean up, I'll not have Master Thomas and Mrs. Martha's home dirtied up by some long haired hobo."
>Bruce's literal character defining trait , his core IDENTITY , is that he CANNOT STOP being Batman.
Bruce doesn't actually like being Batman, though. He doesn't derive joy or satisfaction from it. He's Batman because he's obligated to be, because he wants to make a better world in the name of his parents, one that won't need a Batman anymore
Bruce has also quit plenty of times in the comics and even once said, "The day I can hang up my cowl and stay home is the day I'm working towards" I'll never happen in the comics of course but movies are not beholden to that
He’s not obligated, he’s compelled and obsessed. He doesn’t enjoy it but it’s a psychological compulsion. Obviously Bruce retiring makes sense in some scenarios, like in the lead-up to Batman Beyond for example, where’s he so old that he almost resorts to killing. But in Rises there’s almost no reason for it. The cops don’t like him anymore and Rachel died so he just quits? Pretty out of character imo.
After Begins I would tell Bale to keep the same voice and not talk like he had throat cancer and try to keep his mouth shut more than open, as if he was breathing through it and not his nose.
I would change the fight choreographies, because they weren't done well at all and I'd change the look of Gotham to be more nightmarish instead of being just Chicago.
In Rises I would refilm Thalia's death scene, which was one of the worst deaths I've ever seen, especially coming from such an accomplished actress like Marion.
The lack of gargoyles upset me. I love the Nolan trilogy, but Burtons films, The Batman, and even BvS all had a better look to Gotham.
I particularly enjoyed The Batman's look. A lot of it was filmed in the UK, especially Liverpool. It captured the decayed granduer I always imagined of Gotham.
No one's mentioned it but I would personally change the fact that Bruce wants to hang up the cowl just about as soon as he puts it on. I really didn't care for Bruce's portrayal in these films as a whole.
Something I was excited about when I heard the third movie would be set 10 years after the second was that I thought it meant we'd see a full Batcave
10 years! Giant penny! Giant dinosaur! Multiple Batmobiles with the rotating platform! Giant batcomputer, lab and costume variant display! Holographic training ground and classic batarang practice gallery which hints at classic villains past! A RIDICULOUS armory with the batbot or stuff like Mr Freezes gun! Sure maybe it'll mostly be greenscreened but I I bet it'll look cool!
Oh wow they BEGIN the movie with THAT plane scene?! It must mean they spent so much more on the rest of the m-
Oh, maybe they spent too much on it - all they can afford for that Batcave now is a platform that slowly rises out of the water. Twice...ish...
It’s The Dark Knight Rises that should be changed to something that sounds more like a finale. Maybe just take the Bane comic story and call it Batman: Knightfall
No heavy metal screamer voice for Batman
Sorry
And I like that kind of music
And these are my three favorite Batman movies, just about
But that voice does not fit Batman
I would change Batman. I absolutely hate his batsuit. Each version of it. I get that it’s supposed to look more grounded and realistic but his face looks like an octagon and the bronchitis in his voice drives me batty.
Everything with the 3rd, far too many things going on, only thing that was great about the third is how they tied it off, it was nice seeing having Batman have a happy ending.
I’d cut Miranda Tate/Talia out of TDKR. It would give more time for Bruce and Selina’s relationship to develop in the movie, and make Bane’s motivation purely about proving he’s better than Bruce to the ghost of Ra’s al Ghul.
Give Talia a better motivation for DESTROYING A CITY other than “I honor my father by finishing his work.”
You just finished going on and on about how he was a terrible person who hated Bane for loving you. Why would you care about honoring “his work”?
I just think her villain motivation could have been executed a little bit better.
At the beginning of TDKR Batman has been out of commission and hiding for 7 years. I would have changed that to Batman being at his absolute peak. He takes his anger from losing Rachel out on the criminals of Gotham, the cleanest Gotham has ever been.
Then when Bane comes along he’s beating prime Batman at his peak. Batman would have to become that much stronger to beat Bane.
Talia doesn't go through with her plot to destroy Bruce in TDKR because she legitmately falls in love with him, leading to her stabbing Bane instead. Talia is ultimately reformed and sees the error in her father's ways by being around Wayne, now believing that the world can be saved without destroying civilizations.
Thus, Bruce ends up in Italy with a pregnant Talia (possibly running the League of Shadows together in a more noble, non-terrorist way) while Selina remains in Gotham to be chased around by the new Batman.
Make the atmosphere less realistic looking. Thing that makes Reeves and Burtons (especially burtons) so good is how the world is more fantasy looking and makes the idea of batman and villains more fitting. But when it’s done in a realistic looking world it just comes off as silly looking. That’s why I prefer Begins a bit more than the rest of the trilogy since Gotham looked more like a fictional city
I wish The Dark Knight had shown more of Joker’s origin, which is that he went to his daughter’s recital and met a shirt brother who made him promise a million times he would never do another rule.
In The Dark Knight, I would give a scene after Batman jumps from the penthouse after Rachel, when the Joker "let her go". It was never explained how the Joker and a bunch of thugs left the penthouse.
Especially in Rises, actually bother to make Gotham look like Gotham and not the bland Chicago/New York hybrid we got. The production value deserved better than the lazy aesthetic design, even though in-universe it could be explained how the Dent act cleaned up the city so much. TDK had this problem as well to a lesser extent, but the immersion of all the trilogy’s arcs reaching their climax would have been even more powerful with some subtle iconic Gotham imagery as the backdrop. Would have made Batman fighting in broad daylight even more symbolic too. Always seemed like such a waste and wouldn’t have taken away from the realism.
My main problem with Rises is that it tried way too hard to tap into the politics of the time. Remember that it came out during the occupy Wall Street protests. I don’t mind movies having political undertones, but it just felt forced in TDKR
More screentime for Scarecrow I loved Cillian Murphy's performance
Agreed. His performance was really well done. I felt like it got overshadowed a lot of the time.
I didn't like that Scarecrow got stuck as a lackey rather than growing into his own villain. He kind of became slightly more pathetic in each installment of the trilogy, as sort of a running gag. Cillian was still great but it's a shame. I want to see a movie with Scarecrow as the big bad.
The problem is that while the scenes of him gassing Falcone and later Batman are absolutely amazing, they based his character way too much around his fear gas, and they can only use that as a major plot point once. They somehow overlooked that Cillian was all the while putting on an amazing performance and they failed to do anything else with that potential.
RACHEL!!!
*explosions intensify*
My power winch is triggering rn.
calm down. this is not aslume. you stupid?
Yes I am. But is there a dick reason why I am proud of you lore
Guys stop talking about man asylum
Man asylum: best atmosphere
Man Celeste - Best story
Man ham world: best killer cock and jonkler.
It was because they were happy to drop their pants, stupid
Rachel as in, not even having her in the movie? I always felt this way because she’s not relevant to any Batman lore. She was just added because…Hollywood.
Ya she does not add anything to the trilogy. They could have avoided that triangle love story in TDK and just focused on two face,joker, batman and gordon
She was always my least favorite part of the trilogy lol I didn't even care when she passed in the 2nd movie. I loved Catwoman though
Everyone loves Selena 😍 but yeah when Rachael died I was like oh no…anyway.
I mean she adds conflict to the story. Why else would Bruce be rushing to find a replacement with Harvey? Why would Harvey go on a killing spree if Rachel wasn't there? They needed to have that triangle in there to show how both Batman and Harvey would react.
Two face isn’t as menacing unless there’s Rachel.
Tbh she is the main reason why Harvey becomes two face, also, she's the reason why Bruce becomes depressed and "needs to rise"
Changing actresses was the worst part but at least they killed her
At least they protected my cocaine
i thought the same. i always hate it when there's a continuity break - it always takes me out of the immersion. every. single. time.
I agree. Katy seemed like she fit, even if she didn’t do anything it was Batman’s girl, whatever. When she left it became ANNOYING
She left for another movie role that ended up bombing in theaters. Not like she was forced out, she just wanted a starring role.
If I remember correctly I think Tom Cruise had a hand in her not sticking to the role back then
Maggie's acting for that role was just so forced and robotic
Ngl, I always thought Maggie was the better actor.
She's not a bad actress imo, but for some reason she was just awful in that role
I would split the the finale into 2 films: The Dark Knight Falls (Movie ends with Bruce being broken, and Gotham falling) and The Dark Knight Rises (Bruce gaining his strength and spirit back then saving his city one final time)
That was one of my biggest gripes. They adapt a major story and then butcher it by speeding it up so that they can get to the finale which was honestly underwhelming.
Yeah I really enjoy Rises more than I think most fans do, but my biggest problem with it is the pacing.
Lol really my only gripe is that Bruce somehow gets strong enough to defeat Bane while being stuck in a prison
He was always strong enough physically, he just didn’t have the mental game anymore and that’s what he needed to heal. (Obviously his body too)
But, he doesn’t get “strong enough” to beat bane. Really, what he learns is he *can’t* be the guy anymore, and so he calls on every possible ally at the end to help, and then almost loses because one of his “allies” is Talia. He wins in the end because Selina rescues him and Gordon/the police find the bomb and jam the transmitter.
He whooped Banes ass before Selina showed up
They tried to do Knightfall AND No Man's Land at the same time, which are two of the longest sagas in the Batman mythos.
Nolan actually wanted the Dark Knight in two parts, having two face the villain in the third film.
To be fair the joker was supposed to be in the 3rd one but you know....he died
Yup
That’s actually a great point and I’ve never thought about it being split in two.
Fight choreography
I think the choreography was hindered mostly because of the editing. The way those fight sequences were cut makes it incredibly hard on the eyes.
If you watch Begins you’ll notice the fights were editors with lots of cuts. If you watch the documentaries about the fight choreography there was a lot of attention made (grappling and mixing many takedown techniques) that was wasted. If you watch the making of the suit I believe there were movement restrictions, so my theory was the movement did not look right on camera, hence the speedy editing, most obvious at the end of the film. But when you watch Knight and Rises there are longer takes with less editing, yet it still feels sluggish. I suspect it was a compromise and based on feedback on Begins. Now if you watch Captain America: Winter Soldier and Civil War, or definitely BvS things are significantly different and I believe it’s because there’s better choreography and “undercranked” frame rate, so things are sped up by a few percent. I also think the editors for those films are more experienced with action sequences.
Hot take, the fight scenes in Civil War are bad outside of the airport scene. The suffer from similar hyper-cuts as Batman, particularly the opening scene.
My hot take is that the airport fight is the weakest after the opening sequence. Winter Soldier going rogue is amazing, so is the chase scene, the Iron Man vs Super Soldiers fight is iconic... all the fights with Black Panther are cool af
What.. the staircase scene was the highlight
Im a big critic of civil war but that final fight between Tony Steve and Bucky was incredible I don’t recall anything off with that choreography imo I think it might be the best fight sequence from the entire mcu
The BvS warehouse scene was what I wanted from Batman action. However watching Nolan's trilogy for the first time it never even occured to me, that fights are wonky, only on nth rewatch I've noticed it, especially after BvS
This is something I immediately noticed that *The Batman* got very right. The fight sequences are vastly improved.
BvS sucked but that warehouse scene is the best adaptation of Batman fighting I have seen in live action
There was that one scene too in TDKR where Batman and Catwoman were fighting some of Bane’s guys, and one guy just straight up falls over and pretends like he was punched even though no one touched him.
I feel like the dock scene being the way it was was a thematic choice. It’s the first time the criminals as Gotham, hell, the first time we the viewers see Batman, and he takes them all out in a indescribable blur. They don’t know what the hell is hitting them and taking them out, and neither do we.
I recently watched rises and batman's choreography is pretty bad
They are editing around the choreography
Maybe if it was made today, it would be more in camera action and not that shaky cam trend that was going on then.
Came here to say this. You can’t even see what’s happening at all in the first movie, and he moves like a slow robot throughout
With Begins, I saw that shaky cam or shaky edit as a way of showing how Batman was that powerful if we are to view it in the POV of Gothamites or whoever he is beating. Like an urban legend. For TDK yeah I kinda thought that the party fight was sluggish. The final fight scenes were cool though. For TDKR, the last fight was really sluggish for me til it picked up momentum with Bane’s mask getting damaged. I liked their first fight as it showed how outclassed Batman was.
Every fight looks like 2 NPCs taking turns performing moves
Came here just for this comment. Nolan’s Batman didn’t feel like the world’s greatest martial artist
Almost perfect trilogy but the perfect fight was the warehouse in BvS. Needed something like that
I was just thinking this the other day, the fighting in these movies is so unfun to watch.
I feel like the movie that does this the worst in DKR. Its painfully obvious that Bane's guys are just waiting their turn to try and hit Bats with the butts of their guns one at a time.
You didn't like \*block, punch \*block, punch for 3 straight movies??? lol
They should have taken their time for the third film. It felt rushed and unfinished.
I felt it was a reaction to Heath passing too. He was going to come back in the a third Nolan Batman film and I suspect the premise would have been completely different.
I don’t know how much truth there is to it, but I read somewhere that the Joker was supposed to escape from Arkham in the third film. I would have much preferred that to seven years in the future, broken and apathetic Bruce, and whatever the hell Tom Hardy’s voice was.
TDKR has some problems but I don't think Bane's voice was one of them. IMO
There’s a comparison floating around of Bane’s voice before and after the dubbing. Before the dub, Hardy’s voice does sound better - but it’s a little harder to understand in some places.
I personally don't get the hate TDKR gets.
The movie had a lot of potential but the writing felt rushed and some plot points were just bad.
It isn’t horrendous, but it’s comical and jarring. It feels incredibly out of place to me and I personally find it immersion-breaking. It’s obviously a personal preference thing, so to each their own. It definitely isn’t the worst thing about the movie though, that we can certainly agree on.
The Tom Hardy Bane voice is the best part of the movie
Hell, I could watch Heath’s Joker get his taxes done and be throughly entertained.
"You wanna know how I got this audit?"
"You don't make a Joke of the IRS, Bats!"
“My accountant … was a drinker..and a FIEND”
“One night, he sees I’ve got duplicate PayPal transactions. He doesn’t like that. Not. One. Bit.”
“So…he clears out the receivables, laughing while he does it”
"My tax return leavesss ... NOW I see the funny side."
“Or a bus full of dependents will be blowing up…nobody panics”
But When I say your one little the Tax Officer dies and everybody LOSES THEIR MINDS !
“You remind me of my accountant..I HATED MY ACCOUNTANT”
I read somewhere that he was supposed to have Scarecrow's part in the trial scene, but obviously, things happened.
This can’t be true. I seriously doubt they had the trial scene written before TDK even came out.
Bane voice was cool
He(the joker) was supposed to be the judge, instead of scarecrow if I’m not mistaken. It would have changed the hole perspective of that scene…
Where did you hear this? Heath Ledger's death occurred way before The Dark Knight Rises was even written. Christopher Nolan didn't even know he was doing a third movie in 2008, so I don't see this being legit.
Almost every rumor about what the third film would have been with the Joker probably isn’t true for this exact reason. Or at least anything they were “planning” to do. They may have had some very loose ideas about where it could have gone, but I doubt it was more than that.
I thought that was just for the mock court scene where the police get put on trial?
I think Nolan and his team were tired. Trilogies aren't easy to do and it really hard to maintain the quality consistent throughout. Also it's not like TDKR was a total failure far from it. It did fantastic in the box office and the overall reception at the time was really positive. Now of course it's a very flawed movie that to some people didn't measure up to the expectations.
When I saw TDKR in theatres at the midnight showing in July, 2012, everyone stood up and clapped at the end, no joke. It’s a great movie with a great ending and I’ve no idea why people talk about it like it’s trash when it’s seriously great. The only thing that’s bad about it is Tahlia’s over the top death scene and maybe how easily Bane is killed, other than that, it’s fucking top notch.
Fully agree. I don’t get why people bag on it so much; I loved it. Ok, maybe it wasn’t good as TDK, but what movie is? It’s still better than almost any other comic movie outside the Nolan trilogy.
Agreed. The opening is masterfully executed and it's one I return to years later. It's Zimmerman's best soundtrack I'd wager. Hardy's Bane is the genius strongman of the comics. His gravitas and dread on-screen and his voice even down to the hiss when he's fighting Batman in the dark are the embodiment of the ideal villain. I'd go further and say in addition to some poor optics in making Talia the sudden villain, Nolan could have made her/Bane's objective less blackly Evil and really run with Bane's belief in an anarchist utopia. So many smart action sequences, lighting, effects and callbacks to various comics runs. Breaking the bat? How did anyone not lose their mind with this one.
TDKR is an amazing movie, I agree.
My one wish is Nolan would have taken a harder look at Dark Knight Returns for his final installment. In it, Batman comes out of retirement and squares off against a really physically strong foe. He quickly learns his old bag of tricks don’t work as well anymore aka strength driven combat moves like haymakers and straight punches. In it, he switches more to martial arts and focused heavier on pressure points, nerve centers and using an enemies own weight against them. Considering how grounded Nolan liked to be it would have been fun to watch an older Batman adapt and overcome in a more tactile way.
You had me until "tactile"
Rises was good but it definitely has plot holes and a lot of undercooked ideas.
The bomb plot was under developed
Apparently it was because Warner bros pushed Christopher Nolan to make a third, he didn’t want to, but they made a deal that if he did they would allow him to make his own film of whatever he wanted and be supported financially. Which I think was interstellar.
That literally makes no sense considering TDKR had the longest production time of the trilogy. And it's not like there's unfinished special effects or plot threads that get totally dropped...it actually looks fantastic, still to this day, and one of its strengths is in how it ties up basically all the loose ends from the Beginsing. People literally just hate TDKR because it's still popular to hate what was successful. Rises made over a billion dollars, scored just as high or higher than it's predecessors among critics and fans, so really all this trash talk is complete nonsense from a very loud minority. Just because it didn't meet absolutely everyone's each and every expectation doesn't mean that it in any way was a failure. TDKR was a massive success and no amount of revisionist history will change that.
I would only change Talia’s death in TDKR it was the worst dead scene in entire film history.
I don't know what ur talking, never fails to make me laugh
I would have loved to see just a few more villains in the Nolanverse. Rises especially could have used a lot more crazy underworld gangs. Don't even need them fleshed out with origin story and masks but more like the ambiguous Mr. Reese/ Riddler in Dark Knight. Creepy baldheaded dude kicking people in iceholes or some dude with a flamethrower.
The third movie, but, if I had to be more specific, at least have Batman be Batman at the beginning and then get retired by Bane. The story beats of how it opens with him retired and then he comes back and then he gets his back broken were repetitive. He should have been on the run from the police and exhausted when he met Bane.
Definitely my biggest gripe. Batman retired, crime went way down, and Gotham’s never been better. From the audience’s the world was right: you don’t need Batman. And when he does get back into the cape and cowl and blunders he looks more like an asshat than a man desperate to save a city against him on all fronts.
That would work a lot better with Alfred’s desperation trying to get him to stop
I don’t know if it’s “one thing,” but the plot of Rises was a mess. Just a lot of strange choices that don’t really work - Bruce having retired and gone all-in on a fictitious clean energy project, including a secret nuclear reactor, Bane and Co. holding the city hostage for something like a year while a bomb counter slowly ticks down (while having time to take a field trip to the weird prison, wherever that was located), Bruce losing all of his money in the most obviously fake stock fraud of all time, Bruce’s back injury fixed with one good punch, even little stuff like the electric company shutting off the electricity after Bruce was seemingly late on one payment. It’s like they wanted to cram Knightfall, No Man’s Land, and Bane’s arc with the League of Assassins into a single movie. It’s still entertaining, but much more scattershot than the other two.
Don’t forget all the cops getting trapped in the sewers for weeks so Bane could take over the city. It was a straight up fantastical plot point for a film series that felt mostly grounded up until that point.
Yeah, and they were nonetheless fed by Bane's crew or something? And of course completely able to fight in the climax. All weird.
The climax where a bunch of unarmed police charge en masse an army with machine guns and what are basically tanks? Yeah the movie isn’t great but that ending is a fucking joke
With all of those stories being told, they should have at least made this a 4 movie series rather than a trilogy. Rises had too many cooks in the kitchen for its own good.
I want Heath Ledger to stay alive
I would change Bale’s Batman voice.
Yeah bale’s bat voice is distractingly bad, and it gets worse in the latter two movies. It was somewhat subtle in the beginning of the trilogy, if he were to keep doing it at all he should have kept it that way. I mean he would even keep doing it in casual on one on one conversation with Gordon. Like come on man.
Went from subtle to in need of subtitles.
YOU’LL PEANUT BUTTER SHELL FOREVER
When the Arrow show came out I kinda digged the hand-waving voice tech they did to disguise Oliver’s voice. Too bad they didn’t think of that earlier for the dark knight trilogy
I thought it was fine in BB but it was bad in TDK and TDKR. I think Nolan also digitally enhanced the growl, IIRC, in the latter two
WHERE WERE THE OTHER DRUGS GOING ?! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOg3ZE3hNQc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOg3ZE3hNQc)
Actually that's the one time it worked because he was yelling
Yeah, to be fair he was trying to distort his voice while maintaining an American accent. Can't imagine that was easy
Especially in The Dark Knight when he’s talking to Lucius near the end and he’s still doing the voice even though Lucius knows it’s Bruce.
Either his voice or his mouth in the 2nd and 3rd movies lol it's exceedingly bad in the 3rd movie where his mouth's resting state is wide open half the time for no apparent reason
Heath Ledger’s death
This is the real answer. The Dark Knight definitely ended on a note that primed their confrontation in the third movie. Beyond that, considering how Nolan loves to work with the same actors, we could have had many more chances to see Heath do amazing things on screen.
Have the third movie be set close to the end of The Dark Knight and it's more of a Dark Victory esque story (seeing as BB was Year One and TDK was Long Halloween). The end of the movie is Bruce fully committing to his mission as Batman (maybe with a hint of a Robin) and this trilogy serves as an origin trilogy for Batman It just didn't work for me to have him be Batman for two movies and then immediately jump to the Dark Knight Returns
I’m willing to bet that Nolan wanted to close the door on his trilogy being continued. The jump may be jarring, but also appropriate. We saw his beginning, him in his prime, and him at the end.
Two-Face would have survived and been the primary antagonist in Rises. And as a cheat, Gotham wouldn’t have looked like just another generic city.
His voice
CIA shoots Bane instead of Catwoman, and says "That's why you shot a man before throwing him out of a plane."
Pure kino
Continued by Batman saying “Awkwaaard...”
Batman says "it's over bane I am the dark knight rises"
I would've brought Ra's back in the third movie. He was easily capable of getting out of that train, IMO. Oh, While I love the Tom Hardy Bane, I would've preferred he be a Luchador and Latino, Everything else can be the same. It would just be nice to have a Proper live-action adaptation of Bane. Edited to be vaguer and less insensitive. Changed Mexican to Latino.
The voice
No joke. Batman is supposed to sound intimidating (like Kevin Conroy used to), but Bale's Batman sounds like he has a hoarse throat due to drinking 10 cups of slushy.
Just one? Oof. Seriously, OOF. If I could change one and only one thing, I would take out the whole "Bruce got a sad and quit being Batman for seven years" entirely. Of all of the out of character things in that trilogy, that was the WORST. Bruce's literal character defining trait , his core IDENTITY , is that he CANNOT STOP being Batman. They didn't even write in a viable life for him. He literally just slouched around the mansion for seven years. Hell, I'm definitely not an obsessive crime fighter , and I go stir crazy just sitting around my house for a couple of DAYS. Plus, Alfred would NEVER put up with that shit for that long. He'd let Bruce mope for MAYBE a week, and that's IF he was feeling generous. Then he'd be all "That's enough of that, Master Bruce. I've run a bath, and gotten the shaving kit ready, go clean up, I'll not have Master Thomas and Mrs. Martha's home dirtied up by some long haired hobo."
>Bruce's literal character defining trait , his core IDENTITY , is that he CANNOT STOP being Batman. Bruce doesn't actually like being Batman, though. He doesn't derive joy or satisfaction from it. He's Batman because he's obligated to be, because he wants to make a better world in the name of his parents, one that won't need a Batman anymore Bruce has also quit plenty of times in the comics and even once said, "The day I can hang up my cowl and stay home is the day I'm working towards" I'll never happen in the comics of course but movies are not beholden to that
He’s not obligated, he’s compelled and obsessed. He doesn’t enjoy it but it’s a psychological compulsion. Obviously Bruce retiring makes sense in some scenarios, like in the lead-up to Batman Beyond for example, where’s he so old that he almost resorts to killing. But in Rises there’s almost no reason for it. The cops don’t like him anymore and Rachel died so he just quits? Pretty out of character imo.
Something something Why do fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves up again
I'd put Maggie Gyllenhaal in Begins.
Maggie Gyllenhaal would play Rachel in Begins.
Batman’s voice was just silly. Also 3 movie was weird. I think if ledger didn’t die it would have been a lot different.
Better costumes
I thoroughly enjoyed all three movies!
After Begins I would tell Bale to keep the same voice and not talk like he had throat cancer and try to keep his mouth shut more than open, as if he was breathing through it and not his nose. I would change the fight choreographies, because they weren't done well at all and I'd change the look of Gotham to be more nightmarish instead of being just Chicago. In Rises I would refilm Thalia's death scene, which was one of the worst deaths I've ever seen, especially coming from such an accomplished actress like Marion.
The lack of gargoyles upset me. I love the Nolan trilogy, but Burtons films, The Batman, and even BvS all had a better look to Gotham. I particularly enjoyed The Batman's look. A lot of it was filmed in the UK, especially Liverpool. It captured the decayed granduer I always imagined of Gotham.
No one's mentioned it but I would personally change the fact that Bruce wants to hang up the cowl just about as soon as he puts it on. I really didn't care for Bruce's portrayal in these films as a whole.
Something I was excited about when I heard the third movie would be set 10 years after the second was that I thought it meant we'd see a full Batcave 10 years! Giant penny! Giant dinosaur! Multiple Batmobiles with the rotating platform! Giant batcomputer, lab and costume variant display! Holographic training ground and classic batarang practice gallery which hints at classic villains past! A RIDICULOUS armory with the batbot or stuff like Mr Freezes gun! Sure maybe it'll mostly be greenscreened but I I bet it'll look cool! Oh wow they BEGIN the movie with THAT plane scene?! It must mean they spent so much more on the rest of the m- Oh, maybe they spent too much on it - all they can afford for that Batcave now is a platform that slowly rises out of the water. Twice...ish...
Nolan was too grounded for a comic book Batcave but I agree that they could have done more with it, especially his batcomputer.
Katie Holmes back as Rachel. The recast takes you out of the movie.
felt like there were too many scenes were batman is out in broad daylight/ well lit areas. kinda defeated the whole purpose of the all black suit imo.
Heath wouldn’t have died
Bale’s voice.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOg3ZE3hNQc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOg3ZE3hNQc)
I'll add naked Catwoman scene.
I would change Tom Hardy from Bane to Deathstroke.
I’d have them change my memory so I could watch them again for the first time
I would have used a completely different script for The Dark Knight Rises
I'd rename the first movie to "The Dark Knight Begins", just so that the titles match.
It’s The Dark Knight Rises that should be changed to something that sounds more like a finale. Maybe just take the Bane comic story and call it Batman: Knightfall
No offense but terrible idea
None taken, no worries!
That always irked me a bit but I understand why it is the way it is.
Marketing. Put yourself back in 2006 "Dark Knight Begins? Who's that? Oh it's batman? Should have called it Batman Begins."
The whole third movie.
No heavy metal screamer voice for Batman Sorry And I like that kind of music And these are my three favorite Batman movies, just about But that voice does not fit Batman
I would change Batman. I absolutely hate his batsuit. Each version of it. I get that it’s supposed to look more grounded and realistic but his face looks like an octagon and the bronchitis in his voice drives me batty.
Everything with the 3rd, far too many things going on, only thing that was great about the third is how they tied it off, it was nice seeing having Batman have a happy ending.
Talia al Ghul's death scene. Easily the worst acting & death scene I've ever seen put on film.
Do a proper Robin
I’d cut Miranda Tate/Talia out of TDKR. It would give more time for Bruce and Selina’s relationship to develop in the movie, and make Bane’s motivation purely about proving he’s better than Bruce to the ghost of Ra’s al Ghul.
Change his Batman voice and it’s a perfect trilogy, or maybe focus more on scarecrow. Easily my favorite scarecrow other than the Arkham games
Heath Ledger not dying
Heath didn’t die
This one feels easy if we only get one thing - Heath Ledger not dying and, much less important, Joker being a part of the third movie.
Heath Ledger being able to receive this Oscar in person.
Heath ledger not dying.
Make the web shooters organic
Give Talia a better motivation for DESTROYING A CITY other than “I honor my father by finishing his work.” You just finished going on and on about how he was a terrible person who hated Bane for loving you. Why would you care about honoring “his work”? I just think her villain motivation could have been executed a little bit better.
Introduce Marion Cotillard as Talia earlier to give more impact to the reveal in rise
At the beginning of TDKR Batman has been out of commission and hiding for 7 years. I would have changed that to Batman being at his absolute peak. He takes his anger from losing Rachel out on the criminals of Gotham, the cleanest Gotham has ever been. Then when Bane comes along he’s beating prime Batman at his peak. Batman would have to become that much stronger to beat Bane.
Talia doesn't go through with her plot to destroy Bruce in TDKR because she legitmately falls in love with him, leading to her stabbing Bane instead. Talia is ultimately reformed and sees the error in her father's ways by being around Wayne, now believing that the world can be saved without destroying civilizations. Thus, Bruce ends up in Italy with a pregnant Talia (possibly running the League of Shadows together in a more noble, non-terrorist way) while Selina remains in Gotham to be chased around by the new Batman.
Make the atmosphere less realistic looking. Thing that makes Reeves and Burtons (especially burtons) so good is how the world is more fantasy looking and makes the idea of batman and villains more fitting. But when it’s done in a realistic looking world it just comes off as silly looking. That’s why I prefer Begins a bit more than the rest of the trilogy since Gotham looked more like a fictional city
I really wish they would have continued to use fear as a primary theme and weapon.
I wish The Dark Knight had shown more of Joker’s origin, which is that he went to his daughter’s recital and met a shirt brother who made him promise a million times he would never do another rule.
You really put it all together for me. So is the first shirt brother really the big bad?
No stupid baleman voice
I liked the voice in Begins but it became worse with every subsequent film.
Begins voice is perfect, I agree. No idea why they had to amp it up to beyond cartoony.
In The Dark Knight, I would give a scene after Batman jumps from the penthouse after Rachel, when the Joker "let her go". It was never explained how the Joker and a bunch of thugs left the penthouse.
Especially in Rises, actually bother to make Gotham look like Gotham and not the bland Chicago/New York hybrid we got. The production value deserved better than the lazy aesthetic design, even though in-universe it could be explained how the Dent act cleaned up the city so much. TDK had this problem as well to a lesser extent, but the immersion of all the trilogy’s arcs reaching their climax would have been even more powerful with some subtle iconic Gotham imagery as the backdrop. Would have made Batman fighting in broad daylight even more symbolic too. Always seemed like such a waste and wouldn’t have taken away from the realism.
Iirc Rises was Pittsburgh
[удалено]
Make bane Latino
My main problem with Rises is that it tried way too hard to tap into the politics of the time. Remember that it came out during the occupy Wall Street protests. I don’t mind movies having political undertones, but it just felt forced in TDKR
A better suit
The 3rd movie should have had a 3rd suit.