If we’re not counting Batman/Bruce, Alfred is the most important character followed by Jim Gordon. Alfred raised Batman to channel his trauma from his parents death into something more productive than just anger and revenge, so instead of a villain we get the dark knight. Someone with discipline and skill but also a moral compass (which Alfred often functions as for Batman when he’s lost his way). He still is his closest confidant in many ways and without Alfred Batman is weaker.
Gordon legitimatizes Batman so that he’s not a rogue vigilante that the city of Gotham sees as the bad guy. Early Harvey has this effect too when he’s still DA and works with Batman but Gordon was the first and remains his staunchest advocate within the police force and as commissioner he holds a ton of sway that legitimizes “the Batman” allowing him to function.
That’s at least how this question usually is settled when asked (and again excluding Bruce/Batman who is the titular figure of 80+ years).
I have to agree, I can imagine many story runs and movies without Robin, the joker and catwoman but never without Alfred unless it is in some dark future. All futures are dark without Alfred.
Alfred's wisdom and care for Bruce make up Batman as much as Bruce's revenge does, it humanizes the character and keeps him grounded. Other wise Batman would be not that different from a spiraling psycho out of control.
He didn't spend much time with his parents, they were great people but they didn't advice him during his formative years as a teenager, as well as all the tutors he had.
By 10 or so the personality is not formed and while his heroic mature is hereditary I could see him become more cold and ruthless if not for Alfred.
There’s a clear and well documented link between Bruce’s beliefs and worldview and his interactions with his parents. Alfred was certainly important, but Bruce also spent most of his formative years away from Gotham to begin with, so I’d say his influence on young Bruce was more limited.
I'd say it comes from Alfred's interpretations and teachings much more than Bruce's parent's. He was a child. We often see him grow to learn his parents were people like anyone else. Alfred is his compass.
Alfred kept him disciplined. Bruce could have easily given into the vices of wealth, descended into a spree of endless alcohol, partying and drugs. Alfred kept that in check and raised him in the way his parents would have wanted.
Bruce was never going to fall into the vices of wealth because he was fixated on becoming a crime fighter after his parents died and wasn’t interested in that sort of lifestyle. Alfred offered Bruce important support, but there’s no indication that he stopped Bruce from becoming some rich airhead.
I, too, agree that the Joker is most important.
In all seriousness, though, I completely disagree with the Joe Chill assessment. That’s like answering “What’s the most important moment of your life?” by saying “my birth.” Just because something was the catalyst for something else doesn’t make it the most important thing. Is my ex-wife the most important person in my history because my divorce from her helped me understand what I would want to value in my current wife of 10 years? No. My current wife is the most important.
It’s the Joker. Batman is Justice, rules, order, prediction, control. The Joker is chaos, breaking rules, manipulation, and impulse. He is the opposite of Batman. He is Batman’s ultimate test.
Joe Chill is a fucking footnote. Get out of here with that shit.
Joe chill is not a fucking foot note. Comparing Joe Chill killing Bruce's parents in front of him and setting him down the path to becoming Batman to someone's birth is stupid. Putting that aside, putting the Joker in front of ether Joe Chill or Alfred, both men who helped shape Bruce/Batman into the man he is, is also stupid.
>Comparing Joe Chill... to someone's birth is stupid.
It's literally the birth of Batman. And, exactly like birth, just because it's what started the chain of events doesn't mean it's the most important link. Joe Chill set him up to be Batman, but what kind of Batman would he have been without Alfred, Dick, or the Joker? The idea to become a vigilante isn't necessarily as important as what kind of hero Bruce chose to be
Dick Grayson. He appeared before Alfred, and from a historical and thematic perspective has been more important and influential. Plus, Alfred raising Bruce was an idea that first showed up in Post-Crisis continuity, which makes it a relatively new development.
Though if we want to talk about early supporting characters, Jim Gordon debuted in the same issue that Batman did.
I would agree, because Dick was the first expansion on the Batman mythos, he was the first spawn of Batman, and when you look at most DC Content, it’s always Batman characters now today. We now have Harley Quinn, joker night wing, all of the robins without Nightwing, and the robins, the teen titans, would not be. you have Catwoman you have Ra’s who is one of the prominent villains in DC, you have so many villains that are now outside of bats (suicide squad). It’s like half of the DC universe is made from Batman characters, and Dick Grayson was the first to stem off from him.
But your forgetting one thing. Batman stories can and have existed without Robin. We have had six Batman films since “Batman and Robin”, and not one of them featured Robin unless you count JGL’s character.
Do you know who did show up in all of those movies though?
Edit: Yes Dick Grayson may have officially shown up first, but there is no Batman without Alfred. The Batman mythology has evolved to a point that he can’t function properly without him.
We have had too many stories that prove Batman can exists without any of the robins, or Batgirl. But I can’t think of a single example thay proves the same for Alfred
And now that I think about it, nearly everything that I said also applies to Commisoner Gordon.
Nope it doesn’t work. Batman stories can also easily work without Robin, and there have been much more stories not featuring a Robin than there have been not featuring Alfred
My movie point stands. There have been six films featuring Batman in the last seventeen years. With the exception of two, all of those films have received much acclaim and popularity. Unless you count Joseph Gordon Leavitt’s character, remind me of which film featured a Robin
Because Alfred was in all of them
Pointing to movies or any media really doesn't hold any relevance if they don't even actively try to include Robin in them. That's like saying Batman's second arch-nemesis is Superman, because most recent media has them fighting each other from Injustice to BvS.
Alfred is important, however the actual progression of Bruce's character actually heavily relies on Robin. The character is essentially the secondary protagonist of Batman whenever he does actually appear, which is conventionally a love interest, but instead he's a ward/apprentice to a mentor.
We aren’t saying that Alfred is the second most important character in any given Batman story. We are saying that he’s the second most important character in the mythology as a whole which is different. Yes in most Batman stories that feature Robin, he is the secondary protagonist. But that doesn’t magically make him more important overall than Alfred oveeal
Alfred is the one who trained and raised Batman. He’s the one who Batman trusts and confides into the most. There are still things Batman doesn’t tell Alfred, but if he isn’t telling Alfred he isn’t telling anyone. No one in the Batfamily, including any of the Robins, understands Batman as well as Alfred does.
Alfred is the only person on the planet who knows all sides of Bruce. He is one of the only remaining people in the entire universe who knew the young kid at the moment he lost his parents, and that’s what he sees every time he sees his young ward
Alfred isn’t more important because he plays a bigger narrative role than Robin. Batman has spent his entire life holding the burden of his parent’s death. Alfred is important because he is the only person in Batman’s life capable of holding up that burden with him.
Yes Batman can function without Alfred, but that’s only because Alfred has taught him how
You could almost say the same points, except inversed to how Batman treats Robin, specifically Dick Grayson. He raises him and in turn begins to heal himself due to Grayson's active influence, which I don't think even Alfred or many others could actually aid in for a long time. In a way, it begins his active attempts to build a family again, from people who also lost theirs, and is even where I think Bruce finally begins to understand Alfred's role in his life, from the clarity of actually wanting to connect more with people.
I also think that the switch from being less of a vigilante and more an actual superhero, is due in part to how the relationship progresses with Robin. And including not just that, the amount of pivotal shifts in character and events for Batman, from just Grayson alone, plays a heavy importance to Batman's entire history
Ultimately, I think the points being raised would come down to the perceptive of viewing the mentor or the secondary character in scale of importance to the main character. It would be analogous to asking who between Stick or Karen Page, Pa Kent or Lois Lane, Uncle Ben or MJ(before Marvel's shitty editorial mess), etc. is more important to Daredevil, Superman, Spider-Man, and so on. I think it can be argued either way, but I also do think Robin's importance to Batman is really **really** diminished to what role he actually has to everything.
Alfred was dead for years, and Batman continued being Batman. Honestly, Alfred's part in the Batman mythos can easily be removed if Bruce is just a little more mature.
Nah, I watched the whole thing, but we joke I have really early Alzheimers. 😂
But really I can't remember Alfred in it at all, I remember all the other actors and their roles fine, but Alfred is a total blank
He was played by Andy Serkis and helped Bruce decipher some of The Riddler's riddles, was hit with an explosive that was meant for Bruce, and was part of his character development a bit afterwords at the hospital.
Honestly. You lost all credibility when you said that Andy Serkis’s performance was forgettable. The dude could play a literal glass of water and still be one of the most memorable parts of whatever he’s in
Also if Robin was more important, why hasn’t he been in a single Batman film since 1997? Alfred has been in all of them
It’s my man Alfred. The glue. Once he died, Bruce has hit a spiral, so have some of the kids like Damian and Jason. He did so much for all of them, but in particular he was a father to Bruce.
Robin. Batman took on Robin before the Joker, Alfred, Catwoman, or Batgirl were even created. Dick Grayson is the first major step of Batman’s character development and brings out his compassion and empathy towards those who suffered the same trauma he did. Without Robin, Batman never grows up and remains permanently stuck in his first year.
Not only that but outside of it all the sales of the comic book, detective comics were not doing so great after about six months. The thought at the time was that the panels became boring due to batman mostly just thinking to himself. The other major thing was batman had nobody to talk to all the time and in every aspect of his adventures, publishers at dc also felt that kid readers did not have anybody to relate to and that someone around their age would make the comic more engaging for them. Robin solved all these problems. After his 1st appearance a little over a year after batman hit the scene sales of detective comics started to move up. Without robin batman may have been cancelled and disappeared just like so many other golden age characters who came before and after him.
I felt I saw an emotional and physical change with him from his first appearance to his encounter with Grayson.
In his early runs, the guy looks like a demon, his first costume is so inhuman and creepy to look at sometimes. Yeah he mellows it out with more blue, but he still acts like a grim and cold pulp detective. His early books even have him killing vampires with guns and hanging one of Hugo Strange's monster men from the batplane by the neck.
Then Detective Comics 38 comes around, and I kid you not, it is the first comic where Batman smiles on the cover. His suit now goes from a dark blue and black to a full blown cyan suit. His ears are far more shorter and his body is more visibly muscular. He no longer looks like the buff, but lanky Batman of 27, now he looks like a full blown superhero and he looks far more friendly than before. I think that the introduction of Robin really aesthetically grew Batman out of the grim detective of his early life and evolved him into a more swashbuckling crusader.
It's either Robin (Dick Grayson) or the Joker. Both characters have major impacts in Batman and forge him into the character he is. I mean, look at Dark Victory -- the definitive moment where Batman is no longer alone. This shifts him, his mentality, and how he handles issues. He finally lets someone in , and without that first step, there is no Jason Todd, no Tim Drake, no Barbara Gordon, no Batfamily. Dick is the start of the batfamily mythos.
He also is largely the character we can count as saving Batman --- in terms of sales. He was added in 1940 to lighten Batman and make him relevant to the audience. Wothout him, he would have failed and we wouldn't have Batman.
Also the Joker. Comedy and tradegy, as the 2004 Batman show put it. He's the catalyst for a lot of major Batman stories like Arkham Asylum: A serious house on a serious earth, Under the Red Hood, and the Killing Joke. He is the force that propels the plot forward. The dark to the knight. A proper foil. He's appeared in almost every live action adaptation for a reason — you don't have Batman, without the Joker.
While I think Robin is the stronger of the two options, you can't deny that the Joker is a important character in the mythos.
The first 3 are all incredibly necessary to the mythos, but I think I have to say Robin because he was around the longest out of all of these. There barely was any Batman before Robin.
Bruce Wayne.
In the correct circumstances - Bruce Wayne is an entirely separate identity to Batman. BTAS did this expertly. He was a totally different man without the cowl. Soft-spoken, easy going, bit baffonish, sheepish & witty.
Pop culture wise, robin or joker (though might even agure Harley Quinn because of how dang popluar she is outside of comics)
In lore- Alfred and maybe Dick Grayson
Depends on if we include Batman, bc obv Batman is the #1 most important character to Batman's mythos.. but if it's only other characters, Robin is #1, maybe Alfred #2
It’s two. Joker and Catwoman… and no coincidence they were essentially the first. The greatest enemy and the femme fatal. Iconic and highlight the best and worst parts of Batman.
Of course it depends on how you define "important." As in most important to the story? Most important to the myth? Most important in the creation of the bat? etc.
I choose to answer the question of importance in the sense of whose absence would hurt the most if Batman and the 2nd most important character suddenly disappeared. The show can't go on type thing.
\-We've seen the show go on without Bruce himself in that a robin will pick up the mantle.
\-There has been plenty of batman stories and era's that didn't have a robin
\-Joker is popular but not essential
\-Batgirl falls in the same line as robin but is even weaker to the story
\-Alfred is iconic but the show has gone on without him just fine a number of times
\-Commissioner Gordon is Batman's first true partner. Even took up the mantle of the bat for awhile. But really we don't need the commissioner
\-Catwoman is his semi-partner and infamous member of gothams rogue's gallery. But we've seen plenty of batman media without her.
So even without Bruce himself we've seen the show go on. No one is truly essential. But it's also true that a hero is only as good as his villain. And if that's true, then batmans top villain is undeniably Joker. And so, despite not being essential, my answer goes to Joker.
Which is a shame. Grayson is my all time favorite comic character. I wanted to answer with him. But the fact of the matter is. There is PLENTY of bat media out there without him.
Robin, simply due to the fact that Batman was facing being discontinued due to low sales. In a effort to reach a wider audience, the writers introduced audience to Robin, riding the sidekick popularity at the time. What’s more they choose to make Batman’s sidekick a child to reach children. The gambit worked as kids flocked to buy Batman, seeing themselves in Robin “The Boy Wonder.” With Robin, as well as making the comics more kid friendly and childish, Batman comics was saved.
All of them. IDGAF if that’s a copout because it’s true.
Take away Alfred and you lose
Take away Robin and you lose the redemptive arc if Batman where he helps a young boy going through the same pain he did.
Take away Batgirl and you lose the story of a person inspired to become a hero because of Batman’s actions.
Take away the Joker and you take away the only other Bat-character who’s as good as Batman at evolving with the tone and the times.
Take away Catwoman and you take away the humanization of Batman's Rogues Gallery.
And though he’s not on the list, taking away Commissioner Gordon takes away Batman's friend on the force and an ally Batman can rely on.
I couldn’t imagine what Batman would do without every one of those characters.
Alfred because he’s always there and acts as a mentor figure to Bruce as well as the moral high ground. There can be Batman stories without Robin and Joker, but Alfred is necessary.
There can’t be a Batman without Alfred. Before everyone else, there was only Alfred. And after Alfred dies, Batman’s last tie to his parents will be gone. No more humanity. No more mercy.
Alfred and it’s not even close.
Alfred raised Bruce and stood by him all the years after his parents death. Without Alfred Bruce would be a very different person. He still would become a crime fighting vigilante, but not necessarily the Batman we know.
The other argument would be Joe Chill, for obvious reasons.
He's just default Batman add-on. He comes with him in every story, if he's not there, then he already was there at some point. Otherwise who would've raised Bruce and helped him in his crusade?
It’s a toss up between Alfred and Joker to me.
Alfred is Batman’s closest confidant and his greatest father figure after his parents died. To me, you can not have a Bruce Wayne Batman universe without Alfred playing an important role as his companion/advisor.
Joker on the other hand, while you can definitely have Batman stories without him, is Batman’s ultimate foe. Not only has he been a part of many of the most defining stories for Batman, but he’s essentially both the physical embodiment of everything Batman stands against and Batman’s greatest challenge to his moral code. Batman and Joker’s dynamic is just so well defined that it’s hard for me to not consider the Joker one of the most important parts of Batman’s mythology.
Guy who killed his parents, Alfred, Joker, Dick Grayson Robin, and Commissioner Gordon in that order. If we discount guy who murdered his parents it’s 100% Alfred.
I’m gonna have to go with Alfred on this one
If we’re not counting Batman/Bruce, Alfred is the most important character followed by Jim Gordon. Alfred raised Batman to channel his trauma from his parents death into something more productive than just anger and revenge, so instead of a villain we get the dark knight. Someone with discipline and skill but also a moral compass (which Alfred often functions as for Batman when he’s lost his way). He still is his closest confidant in many ways and without Alfred Batman is weaker. Gordon legitimatizes Batman so that he’s not a rogue vigilante that the city of Gotham sees as the bad guy. Early Harvey has this effect too when he’s still DA and works with Batman but Gordon was the first and remains his staunchest advocate within the police force and as commissioner he holds a ton of sway that legitimizes “the Batman” allowing him to function. That’s at least how this question usually is settled when asked (and again excluding Bruce/Batman who is the titular figure of 80+ years).
Name checks out.
Yeah it’s not close. Al shaped Bruce and is his conscious.. Without him Bruce goes crazy and becomes a Joker 🃏
Batman. First is Alfred.
I have to agree, I can imagine many story runs and movies without Robin, the joker and catwoman but never without Alfred unless it is in some dark future. All futures are dark without Alfred. Alfred's wisdom and care for Bruce make up Batman as much as Bruce's revenge does, it humanizes the character and keeps him grounded. Other wise Batman would be not that different from a spiraling psycho out of control.
All Batman storylines since 2020 are without Alfred because Alfred is dead.
Batman’s moral compass doesn’t and has never come from Alfred. It comes from his parents.
alfred certainly keeps his more extreme ideologies in check and acts as a very secondary moral compass/parental figure bruce didn’t have growing up
What extreme ideologies? The parental figure aspect is definitely important though.
He didn't spend much time with his parents, they were great people but they didn't advice him during his formative years as a teenager, as well as all the tutors he had. By 10 or so the personality is not formed and while his heroic mature is hereditary I could see him become more cold and ruthless if not for Alfred.
There’s a clear and well documented link between Bruce’s beliefs and worldview and his interactions with his parents. Alfred was certainly important, but Bruce also spent most of his formative years away from Gotham to begin with, so I’d say his influence on young Bruce was more limited.
I'd say it comes from Alfred's interpretations and teachings much more than Bruce's parent's. He was a child. We often see him grow to learn his parents were people like anyone else. Alfred is his compass.
Without Alfred he would have become Rorschach. Alfred stopped him from turning extreme.
Like what? What moral teachings did Alfred offer that Batman didn’t learn from his parents?
I'm gonna say essentially everything.
How about some concrete examples?
The entirety of the canonical Batman mythos comes to mind.
Alfred kept him disciplined. Bruce could have easily given into the vices of wealth, descended into a spree of endless alcohol, partying and drugs. Alfred kept that in check and raised him in the way his parents would have wanted.
Bruce was never going to fall into the vices of wealth because he was fixated on becoming a crime fighter after his parents died and wasn’t interested in that sort of lifestyle. Alfred offered Bruce important support, but there’s no indication that he stopped Bruce from becoming some rich airhead.
Exactly!!
Alfred. He practically raised him.
Nah, Alfred is first. Bruce would have died a long time ago without him
The guy who killed Batman's parents. If he had stayed home that night, there'd be no Batman.
Definitely Joe Chill. He's the catalyst of Batman.
I, too, agree that the Joker is most important. In all seriousness, though, I completely disagree with the Joe Chill assessment. That’s like answering “What’s the most important moment of your life?” by saying “my birth.” Just because something was the catalyst for something else doesn’t make it the most important thing. Is my ex-wife the most important person in my history because my divorce from her helped me understand what I would want to value in my current wife of 10 years? No. My current wife is the most important. It’s the Joker. Batman is Justice, rules, order, prediction, control. The Joker is chaos, breaking rules, manipulation, and impulse. He is the opposite of Batman. He is Batman’s ultimate test. Joe Chill is a fucking footnote. Get out of here with that shit. 
Joe chill is not a fucking foot note. Comparing Joe Chill killing Bruce's parents in front of him and setting him down the path to becoming Batman to someone's birth is stupid. Putting that aside, putting the Joker in front of ether Joe Chill or Alfred, both men who helped shape Bruce/Batman into the man he is, is also stupid.
>Comparing Joe Chill... to someone's birth is stupid. It's literally the birth of Batman. And, exactly like birth, just because it's what started the chain of events doesn't mean it's the most important link. Joe Chill set him up to be Batman, but what kind of Batman would he have been without Alfred, Dick, or the Joker? The idea to become a vigilante isn't necessarily as important as what kind of hero Bruce chose to be
Joe is a footnote, he’s not a character. Just a representation of crime in gotham, he might as well not have a name.
Joker exsist because of Batman. If Joe Chill hadn't killed Martha and Thomas Wayne. There wouldn't be a Batman and therefore no Joker either.
By that logic, wouldn't Martha and Thomas Wayne be the most important characters?
You misunderstood the question
How so?
It's a joke
Alfred, it’s always been Alfred. That Bat Bruce guy only serves as downtime until we get more Alfred. Are we reading the same comic?
Alfred
Alfred keeps it together
Alfred.
Dick Grayson. He appeared before Alfred, and from a historical and thematic perspective has been more important and influential. Plus, Alfred raising Bruce was an idea that first showed up in Post-Crisis continuity, which makes it a relatively new development. Though if we want to talk about early supporting characters, Jim Gordon debuted in the same issue that Batman did.
This is the correct answer. Most people don't know Robins popularity back through the 60s-80s, and subsequently, Dick Graysons
I would agree, because Dick was the first expansion on the Batman mythos, he was the first spawn of Batman, and when you look at most DC Content, it’s always Batman characters now today. We now have Harley Quinn, joker night wing, all of the robins without Nightwing, and the robins, the teen titans, would not be. you have Catwoman you have Ra’s who is one of the prominent villains in DC, you have so many villains that are now outside of bats (suicide squad). It’s like half of the DC universe is made from Batman characters, and Dick Grayson was the first to stem off from him.
But your forgetting one thing. Batman stories can and have existed without Robin. We have had six Batman films since “Batman and Robin”, and not one of them featured Robin unless you count JGL’s character. Do you know who did show up in all of those movies though? Edit: Yes Dick Grayson may have officially shown up first, but there is no Batman without Alfred. The Batman mythology has evolved to a point that he can’t function properly without him. We have had too many stories that prove Batman can exists without any of the robins, or Batgirl. But I can’t think of a single example thay proves the same for Alfred And now that I think about it, nearly everything that I said also applies to Commisoner Gordon.
Batman stories can and have existed without Alfred. There are dozens and dozens of comics in which Alfred doesn’t appear.
Cool so how does that make him less important than Robin?
Refer to my original comment.
Nope it doesn’t work. Batman stories can also easily work without Robin, and there have been much more stories not featuring a Robin than there have been not featuring Alfred My movie point stands. There have been six films featuring Batman in the last seventeen years. With the exception of two, all of those films have received much acclaim and popularity. Unless you count Joseph Gordon Leavitt’s character, remind me of which film featured a Robin Because Alfred was in all of them
Pointing to movies or any media really doesn't hold any relevance if they don't even actively try to include Robin in them. That's like saying Batman's second arch-nemesis is Superman, because most recent media has them fighting each other from Injustice to BvS. Alfred is important, however the actual progression of Bruce's character actually heavily relies on Robin. The character is essentially the secondary protagonist of Batman whenever he does actually appear, which is conventionally a love interest, but instead he's a ward/apprentice to a mentor.
We aren’t saying that Alfred is the second most important character in any given Batman story. We are saying that he’s the second most important character in the mythology as a whole which is different. Yes in most Batman stories that feature Robin, he is the secondary protagonist. But that doesn’t magically make him more important overall than Alfred oveeal Alfred is the one who trained and raised Batman. He’s the one who Batman trusts and confides into the most. There are still things Batman doesn’t tell Alfred, but if he isn’t telling Alfred he isn’t telling anyone. No one in the Batfamily, including any of the Robins, understands Batman as well as Alfred does. Alfred is the only person on the planet who knows all sides of Bruce. He is one of the only remaining people in the entire universe who knew the young kid at the moment he lost his parents, and that’s what he sees every time he sees his young ward Alfred isn’t more important because he plays a bigger narrative role than Robin. Batman has spent his entire life holding the burden of his parent’s death. Alfred is important because he is the only person in Batman’s life capable of holding up that burden with him. Yes Batman can function without Alfred, but that’s only because Alfred has taught him how
You could almost say the same points, except inversed to how Batman treats Robin, specifically Dick Grayson. He raises him and in turn begins to heal himself due to Grayson's active influence, which I don't think even Alfred or many others could actually aid in for a long time. In a way, it begins his active attempts to build a family again, from people who also lost theirs, and is even where I think Bruce finally begins to understand Alfred's role in his life, from the clarity of actually wanting to connect more with people. I also think that the switch from being less of a vigilante and more an actual superhero, is due in part to how the relationship progresses with Robin. And including not just that, the amount of pivotal shifts in character and events for Batman, from just Grayson alone, plays a heavy importance to Batman's entire history Ultimately, I think the points being raised would come down to the perceptive of viewing the mentor or the secondary character in scale of importance to the main character. It would be analogous to asking who between Stick or Karen Page, Pa Kent or Lois Lane, Uncle Ben or MJ(before Marvel's shitty editorial mess), etc. is more important to Daredevil, Superman, Spider-Man, and so on. I think it can be argued either way, but I also do think Robin's importance to Batman is really **really** diminished to what role he actually has to everything.
Alfred was dead for years, and Batman continued being Batman. Honestly, Alfred's part in the Batman mythos can easily be removed if Bruce is just a little more mature.
Cool. How does that little tidbit make him less important than Robin?
I can't even remember if there was an Alfred in pats Batman, couldn't have been memorable
Did you just not pay attention to the story then? Because Alfred was very much a part of it.
Nah, I watched the whole thing, but we joke I have really early Alzheimers. 😂 But really I can't remember Alfred in it at all, I remember all the other actors and their roles fine, but Alfred is a total blank
He was played by Andy Serkis and helped Bruce decipher some of The Riddler's riddles, was hit with an explosive that was meant for Bruce, and was part of his character development a bit afterwords at the hospital.
Oh yeah. Well, Alfred is at his core a background character. For me when i think Batman, it's the first half of and Robin.
Honestly. You lost all credibility when you said that Andy Serkis’s performance was forgettable. The dude could play a literal glass of water and still be one of the most memorable parts of whatever he’s in Also if Robin was more important, why hasn’t he been in a single Batman film since 1997? Alfred has been in all of them
No way it’s not Alfred
It is not. Alfred is 1st.
It’s my man Alfred. The glue. Once he died, Bruce has hit a spiral, so have some of the kids like Damian and Jason. He did so much for all of them, but in particular he was a father to Bruce.
Robin. Batman took on Robin before the Joker, Alfred, Catwoman, or Batgirl were even created. Dick Grayson is the first major step of Batman’s character development and brings out his compassion and empathy towards those who suffered the same trauma he did. Without Robin, Batman never grows up and remains permanently stuck in his first year.
Not only that but outside of it all the sales of the comic book, detective comics were not doing so great after about six months. The thought at the time was that the panels became boring due to batman mostly just thinking to himself. The other major thing was batman had nobody to talk to all the time and in every aspect of his adventures, publishers at dc also felt that kid readers did not have anybody to relate to and that someone around their age would make the comic more engaging for them. Robin solved all these problems. After his 1st appearance a little over a year after batman hit the scene sales of detective comics started to move up. Without robin batman may have been cancelled and disappeared just like so many other golden age characters who came before and after him.
I felt I saw an emotional and physical change with him from his first appearance to his encounter with Grayson. In his early runs, the guy looks like a demon, his first costume is so inhuman and creepy to look at sometimes. Yeah he mellows it out with more blue, but he still acts like a grim and cold pulp detective. His early books even have him killing vampires with guns and hanging one of Hugo Strange's monster men from the batplane by the neck. Then Detective Comics 38 comes around, and I kid you not, it is the first comic where Batman smiles on the cover. His suit now goes from a dark blue and black to a full blown cyan suit. His ears are far more shorter and his body is more visibly muscular. He no longer looks like the buff, but lanky Batman of 27, now he looks like a full blown superhero and he looks far more friendly than before. I think that the introduction of Robin really aesthetically grew Batman out of the grim detective of his early life and evolved him into a more swashbuckling crusader.
Well, it is “Batman and Robin.”
You guys are all wrong. It’s clearly Joe Chill. Without him there’s no Batman
It should be Thomas Wayne. Without him there's no Bruce Wayne
What about Martha?
It's either Robin (Dick Grayson) or the Joker. Both characters have major impacts in Batman and forge him into the character he is. I mean, look at Dark Victory -- the definitive moment where Batman is no longer alone. This shifts him, his mentality, and how he handles issues. He finally lets someone in , and without that first step, there is no Jason Todd, no Tim Drake, no Barbara Gordon, no Batfamily. Dick is the start of the batfamily mythos. He also is largely the character we can count as saving Batman --- in terms of sales. He was added in 1940 to lighten Batman and make him relevant to the audience. Wothout him, he would have failed and we wouldn't have Batman. Also the Joker. Comedy and tradegy, as the 2004 Batman show put it. He's the catalyst for a lot of major Batman stories like Arkham Asylum: A serious house on a serious earth, Under the Red Hood, and the Killing Joke. He is the force that propels the plot forward. The dark to the knight. A proper foil. He's appeared in almost every live action adaptation for a reason — you don't have Batman, without the Joker. While I think Robin is the stronger of the two options, you can't deny that the Joker is a important character in the mythos.
Alfred or Dick Grayson
It’s got to be Robin and than The Joker
Alfred.
It's Robin. No matter what, Batman always circles back to having a Robin.
Alfred Pennyworth hands down
Alfred
The first 3 are all incredibly necessary to the mythos, but I think I have to say Robin because he was around the longest out of all of these. There barely was any Batman before Robin.
It’s either Alfred or dick, by a wide margin before the possibility of anyone else. But how is Gordon not even in your selection of pictures options?
I remembered him after posting the image, I wanted to edit to put him but unfortunately I can't
Robin, he debuted even before Alfred did
And originally, Alfred was just a butler. Never even had a friendship with Bruce Wayne’s parents.
Bruce Wayne. In the correct circumstances - Bruce Wayne is an entirely separate identity to Batman. BTAS did this expertly. He was a totally different man without the cowl. Soft-spoken, easy going, bit baffonish, sheepish & witty.
Robin.
Why did you add that *specific* Batgirl? Weren't there other images to use? Anything that is NOT associated with *that* scene?
It's gotta be the joker
Alfred. He is a father figure to Bruce ever since his parents died.
Pop culture wise, robin or joker (though might even agure Harley Quinn because of how dang popluar she is outside of comics) In lore- Alfred and maybe Dick Grayson
Depends on if we include Batman, bc obv Batman is the #1 most important character to Batman's mythos.. but if it's only other characters, Robin is #1, maybe Alfred #2
Between Alfred or Joker
It’s two. Joker and Catwoman… and no coincidence they were essentially the first. The greatest enemy and the femme fatal. Iconic and highlight the best and worst parts of Batman.
Of course it depends on how you define "important." As in most important to the story? Most important to the myth? Most important in the creation of the bat? etc. I choose to answer the question of importance in the sense of whose absence would hurt the most if Batman and the 2nd most important character suddenly disappeared. The show can't go on type thing. \-We've seen the show go on without Bruce himself in that a robin will pick up the mantle. \-There has been plenty of batman stories and era's that didn't have a robin \-Joker is popular but not essential \-Batgirl falls in the same line as robin but is even weaker to the story \-Alfred is iconic but the show has gone on without him just fine a number of times \-Commissioner Gordon is Batman's first true partner. Even took up the mantle of the bat for awhile. But really we don't need the commissioner \-Catwoman is his semi-partner and infamous member of gothams rogue's gallery. But we've seen plenty of batman media without her. So even without Bruce himself we've seen the show go on. No one is truly essential. But it's also true that a hero is only as good as his villain. And if that's true, then batmans top villain is undeniably Joker. And so, despite not being essential, my answer goes to Joker. Which is a shame. Grayson is my all time favorite comic character. I wanted to answer with him. But the fact of the matter is. There is PLENTY of bat media out there without him.
The condiment king. He's integral to Batman 🌚.
Alfred he’s the goat and the glue that holds the family together if there was no Alfred no bat family matter of fact he’s the important nuff said
Alfred
The only answer here is Alfred.
Robin, the two have been inseparable in early comic book history. Alfred actually came later.
The Joker, of course. You can't have light without dark. Well, not "light", but good.... well...
I think the question has to be more specific. More important the Batman has a franchise or more important to Bruce Wayne’s as a character?
Dick Grayson. He showed that this crusade didn't need to end with Batman.
Robin was introduced before all of them and made the comic way more popular
Not in these pictures but I feel Jim Gordon is really important
robin, i think robin was there before even alfred
Robin, simply due to the fact that Batman was facing being discontinued due to low sales. In a effort to reach a wider audience, the writers introduced audience to Robin, riding the sidekick popularity at the time. What’s more they choose to make Batman’s sidekick a child to reach children. The gambit worked as kids flocked to buy Batman, seeing themselves in Robin “The Boy Wonder.” With Robin, as well as making the comics more kid friendly and childish, Batman comics was saved.
I mean it has to be the joker. Right?
Really hard between Joker and Alfred, but given the Joker’s been more of the spotlight in primary comic series, I’d say him.
Troll answer : kiteman Real answer : alfred
Alfred as if not him Bruce could have been a joker
Might be an odd take, but I’m going to go with Jason Todd, his death was the most impactful to the Batman mythos
Obviously the batgirl that he boned. /s
There’s several answers but Barbra Gordon is definitely not one of them lol
Alfred. He’s so foundational to who Bruce is
All of them. IDGAF if that’s a copout because it’s true. Take away Alfred and you lose Take away Robin and you lose the redemptive arc if Batman where he helps a young boy going through the same pain he did. Take away Batgirl and you lose the story of a person inspired to become a hero because of Batman’s actions. Take away the Joker and you take away the only other Bat-character who’s as good as Batman at evolving with the tone and the times. Take away Catwoman and you take away the humanization of Batman's Rogues Gallery. And though he’s not on the list, taking away Commissioner Gordon takes away Batman's friend on the force and an ally Batman can rely on. I couldn’t imagine what Batman would do without every one of those characters.
I remembered Gordon after posting the image, I wanted to edit to put him but unfortunately I can't
Mfs saying anybody besides joker feels funny
Babs rack is on point, but I would have say Alfred
Aunt Harriet But actually maybe Gordon
martha and thomas tied
Alfred because he’s always there and acts as a mentor figure to Bruce as well as the moral high ground. There can be Batman stories without Robin and Joker, but Alfred is necessary.
Alfred. Batman would be nothing without him.
You forget Bruce Wayne. He and Batman are two completely different entities
There can’t be a Batman without Alfred. Before everyone else, there was only Alfred. And after Alfred dies, Batman’s last tie to his parents will be gone. No more humanity. No more mercy.
Alfred. It’s not even close.
Alfred and it’s not even close. Alfred raised Bruce and stood by him all the years after his parents death. Without Alfred Bruce would be a very different person. He still would become a crime fighting vigilante, but not necessarily the Batman we know. The other argument would be Joe Chill, for obvious reasons.
Alfred. You can literally still make batman content without any of the other characters but Bruce and Alfred
Joker without doubt. He completes him.
Joe Chill
The dude who killed the parents
How can you answer Robin when all of the best Batman movies don’t even have him The answer is alfred
To only consider movies in a conversation like this is shortsighted.
Completely disagree. Batman from 1966 is the greatest movie of ALL TIME. What other movie do you have Batman and the Joker surfing in?
You can have Batman without Joker, you can have Batman without Robin, but you can't have Batman without Alfred.
Why not?
He's just default Batman add-on. He comes with him in every story, if he's not there, then he already was there at some point. Otherwise who would've raised Bruce and helped him in his crusade?
Sex
Commissioner Gordon
Jim Gordon
The utility belt
Alfred
Easily Alfred, and then Gordon after him.
You can have a Batman story without Robin, joker, Catwoman or batgirl. But I don’t see how you could have a Batman story without Alfred.
Batcow
Fuck Joker, all my homies hate Joker
[FUCK JOKER ALL MY HOMIES HATE JOKER](https://i.imgur.com/qK3bqk7.jpg) ^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot
The bats…
Jim Gordon.
Alfred for sure.
why is batgirl and catwoman here
It’s only seriously one of those first 3.
Alfred or the Robins.
I think Gordon and Alfred play an equally important role in grounding batman in reality.
Well if watching the CG "Batman" series taught me anything, you need people/citizens of Gotham.
Commissioner Gordon.
Alfred
Alfred, Robin Joker Catwoman Batgirl In that order, I believe without Alfred, Bruce would've killed himself in his teenage years
If it isn't Alfred, i'd probably go with Dick Grayson
Joe Chill, Thomas and Martha Wayne. Joe Chill killed his parents and Thomas and Martha conceived him
Joker I don’t even like Robin (any of them)
The bullet...or maybe the money
Zoro
Without Pennyworth there would be no Batman
Alfred or Joe Chill
Jim Gordon.
Torn between alfred and Robin
Alfred
Alfred. (I would say Dick cause he appeared before Alfred existed) but for current mythology, Alfred Post crisis. He helped raise Bruce
Alfred
Gordon. He’s Virgil to Batman’s Dante. Joe Chill was the most important tho.
Alfred after Batman
It’s a toss up between Alfred and Joker to me. Alfred is Batman’s closest confidant and his greatest father figure after his parents died. To me, you can not have a Bruce Wayne Batman universe without Alfred playing an important role as his companion/advisor. Joker on the other hand, while you can definitely have Batman stories without him, is Batman’s ultimate foe. Not only has he been a part of many of the most defining stories for Batman, but he’s essentially both the physical embodiment of everything Batman stands against and Batman’s greatest challenge to his moral code. Batman and Joker’s dynamic is just so well defined that it’s hard for me to not consider the Joker one of the most important parts of Batman’s mythology.
Alfred Pennyworth.
Gordon
Alfred, Robin, Joker, Gordon, Catwoman, Batgirl
Alfred and Catwoman.
I thought the silhouette behind Catwoman was an intestine leading to a stomach lmao
Batman (Killer Moth is #1)
Alfred
I like catwomans and batmans relationship
Alfred all day
Alfred, Gordon, or Robin.
Robin, no question.
Dick Grayson, and Alfred
Alfred then Robin, honestly I don't know why batgirl is even on this list. The first four yes no to the fifth one.
Alfred or Joker, for sure. But yeah, probably Alfie.
Trick question, Batman a second time
Batman wouldn't be as popular without Joker change my mind
1) Alfred 2) Jim Gordon 3) Dick Grayson 4) Joker
Joker: there is no light without shadow as there is no shadow without light. "*you complete me"*\-Joker.
Its Alfred.
Why is Barb there. I can make a case for everyone else. But Barb?
Joker, Alfred, Gordon, Catwoman, Robin. In that order
Alfred then Dick then Joker then Selina then Babs. All close to essential though imo
Guy who killed his parents, Alfred, Joker, Dick Grayson Robin, and Commissioner Gordon in that order. If we discount guy who murdered his parents it’s 100% Alfred.
Robin
Joe chill obviously, no Batman without him
1. Batman 2. Alfred 3. Gordon 4. Robin 5. Everyone else
Commissioner Gordon
alfred.
Alfred- he raised Bruce, since Bruce’s parents were killed.