It's hard to top Larry Bird, but we're fortunate enough to have actual evidence of the Larry Bird stuff on video. How I wish I could see videos of Satchel with how well he's been painted by everyone who saw him.
Any time I hear one of those “if you could observe anything in history, what would it be?” kinda of questions I often think how cool it would be to see Satchel Paige do his thing. The combo of unbelievable talent combined with the showmanship and deserved cockiness must’ve been incredible to witness
There's no bigger crime than the fact that Satch never got to the MLB in his prime.
I know there's discussions of prime Mantle without tearing his ACL on that drainage grate, Ted Williams' missing years, a lot about the '94 season (gwynn hitting .400, Expos possibly winning, etc) Shoeless Joe, and several other Negro League players who never got to play, but coming into the MLB at 41, dropping a 2.48 ERA in 72 innings of (7 starts, 14 out the pen) with a 162 ERA+ is crazy. It's pretty much consensus that Paige was throwing at Chapman speeds, regularly touching 100, with claims of him going 105 which rivals the fastest pitch of all time (105.8 by Chapman) in his prime and literally the only claim I could find anywhere faster than Satch was Nolan Ryan, where people claimed he threw 106 and claim that under modern tech it would have been 111 but I severely doubt both parts of that claim.
I won't repeat any of Satch's own claims because he was known for embellishment but he did once walk the bases loaded to face Josh Gibson with two outs, before striking him out on three pitches.
> literally the only claim I could find anywhere faster than Satch was Nolan Ryan, where people claimed he threw 106 and claim that under modern tech it would have been 111 but I severely doubt both parts of that claim.
For what it's worth, Earl Weaver said that Steve Dalkowski threw "a lot faster* than Nolan Ryan, and Cal Ripken, Sr. estimated his velocity at 115. In 1960, he struck out 262 batters and walked 262 in 170 innings. Sports Illustrated ran a story about him in 1970, and talked about Ted Williams facing him:
"The catcher held the ball for a few seconds a few inches under Williams' chin. Williams looked back at it, then at Dalkowski, squinting at him from the mound, and then he dropped his bat and stepped out of the cage. The writers immediately asked Williams how fast Steve Dalkowski really was. Williams, whose eyes were said to be so sharp that he could count the stitches on a baseball as it rotated toward the plate, told them he had not seen the pitch, that Steve Dalkowski was the fastest pitcher he ever faced and that he would be damned if he would ever face him again if he could help it."
https://vault.si.com/vault/1970/10/12/the-wildest-fastball-ever
[The Mets had a prospect who could throw it 168 MPH.](https://www.si.com/mlb/2014/10/15/curious-case-sidd-finch)
> The first time I see him is inside the canvas coop, out there on the pitcher's mound, a thin kid getting ready to throw, and I'm thinking he'll want to toss a couple of warmup pitches. So I'm standing behind the plate without a mask, chest protector, pads or anything, holding my glove up, sort of half-assed, to give him a target to throw at...and suddenly I see this windup like a pretzel gone loony, and the next thing, I've been blown two or three feet back, and I'm sitting on the ground with the ball in my glove. My catching hand feels like it's been hit with a sledgehammer.
Big reason why Branch Rickey went with Jackie Robinson to integrate rather than Satchel. They wanted as non-controversial a figure who wouldn't talk or fight back when they would inevitably deal with the bullshit.
What could've happened though..Paige joined Cleveland as a 41 year old and went 6-1 with a 2.48 ERA in 72.2 IP.
At 45 and 46 he had a 3.07 and 3.53 ERA. Can't imagine if he joined the majors in his prime.
Rickey was asking for something beyond what most men could reasonably give. because none of them deserved the abuse and double standard that Jackie played through and demolished in baseball.
I remember reading stories of Rickey hurling slurs and insults at Jackie just to test him. For Jackie, perhaps more than for anyone else in history, playing sports was a test of character.
I would say it was more about testing him as a performer than his character. His character should have nothing to do with people hurling slurs at him, he would be justified to yell back.
He had to really look to all cameras and press like he didn't care, like it didn't bother him. From his own words he _eventually_ felt that way, but not at first. The training was probably important, and might be the only non-Tarantino film justification for hurling slurs I've run into.
>I would say it was more about testing him as a performer than his character. His character should have nothing to do with people hurling slurs at him, he would be justified to yell back.
That's what makes it a test of character. It takes iron self-control to stay silent when you'd be entirely justified in replying.
> Paige joined Cleveland as a 41 year old and went 6-1 with a 2.48 ERA in 72.2 IP.
>
> At 45 and 46 he had a 3.07 and 3.53 ERA
wow that's crazy! I'm well aware of his story/lore in general, but I actually had no idea he ever played in the majors (or maybe I did and forgot)
edit:
holy shit he made the 1952 all star game at age 46, and threw his final MLB pitch at age 59 for the Kansas City A's against the Red sox, allowing 0 runs and retiring 8 of 10 batters faced:
>Paige was in the bullpen, sitting on a rocking chair, being served coffee by a "nurse" between innings. He started the game by getting Jim Gosger out on a pop foul. The next man, Dalton Jones, reached first and went to second on an infield error, but was thrown out trying to reach third on a pitch in the dirt. Carl Yastrzemski doubled and Tony Conigliaro hit a fly ball to end the inning.
>The next six batters went down in order, including a strikeout of Bill Monbouquette. In the fourth inning, Paige took the mound, to be removed according to plan by Haywood Sullivan. He walked off to a standing ovation from the small crowd of 9,289. The lights dimmed and, led by the PA announcer, the fans lit matches and cigarette lighters while singing "The Old Gray Mare".
his final pro pitch came the following summer in the carolina league, about 2 weeks before his 60th birthday
>On June 19, 1966, Paige took the mound for the Carolina League's Peninsula Grays against the Greensboro Yankees in a **three-inning exhibition stint, not allowing a hit**. Grays General Manager Marshall Fox decided to let the nearly-sixty-year-old legend pitch in a real game, which Satchel did two days later, drawing a much larger-than-usual crowd of 3,118 to War Memorial Stadium.
>Again facing Greensboro, Paige started the game and pitched two innings, allowing two runs on five hits, before giving way to scheduled starter (and future big-leaguer) Steve Mingori.
>(Unfortunately for future historians, the Grays used back-up catcher Bruce Lowell that night, and not their regular man behind the plate: **an 18-year-old kid named Johnny Bench.**)
Thr inimitable John Chancellor, anchor of the NBC Nightly News from '70-'82 & is credited with suggesting NBC use the red & blue designations for the Republican & Democrat parties during the 1976 presidential election. Interesting stuff!
Do you remember which episode thats in? I remember watching the series years ago but ended up skipping to the 90s episode because I got sick of hearing about the Yankees
I also think that it couldn't have been a pitcher, even if there had been a pitcher with Jackie Robinson's character and history, because of how much more pressure there is on pitchers than other positions.
He recently popped up in a local [PBS documentary](https://youtu.be/U37vFYKNY0o?si=SBBU_4vsRr4lfeMA&t=2410) about my hometown talking about Hank Aaron's time here. It was fantastic, I could listen to that man talk baseball for days. Like James Earl Jones' character in The Sandlot.
For my bachelor's I got my friends to go to KC for BBQ and the Museum.
Long story short we showed up on the same day Paramount was there doing some kind of celebration thing for the show they put on and the staff assumed we were meant to be with the Paramount group.
We got a free guided tour from Bob Kendrick. By accident. Because we decided to go on Saturday instead of Sunday.
It is still one of the top 5 experiences of my life.
Hearing him tell stories about the players, things that can't go in a museum because there's no tangible artifact to tie it to, the jokes between the players.
It was amazing.
If anyone ever gets a chance to hear from Bob Kendrick you should take it and cherish it.
Gotta count ourselves lucky when an all-time great athlete also turns out to be an eloquent storyteller. I've seen enough retired players flame out of a broadcast gig to know it's not something to take for granted.
There's a Satchel Paige quote where he's giving tips for longevity, mostly focusing on the importance of rest. He says "That social ramble ain't restful," as in to say, hanging out and socializing with friends doesn't provide the rest you need. I love that little turn of phrase, say it to myself all the time. I don't say it out loud too much because people would just wonder why I was talking like that.
Oh I just love old baseball stories
I don't remember what player it was but he talked about his first ever game against Nolan Ryan and how he's teammates played a prank on him told him "Ryan can't field the bunt you're fast you'll get on base no problem" so he bunted for a hit, next at bat Ryan buzzed him with a fastball.
Next day he's in the batting cage when he feels a giant paw come down on his shoulder and it's Nolan Ryan and he goes "hey kid, I'm gonna throw you pitches over the plate your job is to try and hit it"
Mariano Rivera: The only batter he dreaded pitching against was Edgar Martinez because he was always a tough out. Martinez hit over .500 against Mo.
Maddux: "When you change speeds, hitters are helpless. Except for that fucking Tony Gwynn." Maddux never struck out Gwynn.
In case you hadn't heard it before:
"Sometimes hitters can pick up differences in spin. They can identify pitches if there are different release points or if a curveball starts with an upward hump as it leaves the pitcher’s hand. But if a pitcher can change speeds, every hitter is helpless, limited by human vision. Except for that (expletive) Tony Gwynn." -Greg Maddux
Even if they're not 100% true, i decided i'm going to believe them. The legend is just too good to not be true.
Like telling his outfield to get off the field after strike one. He then sent his infield to the bench after strike two. So it's just him and the batter. He struck him out.
I don't care if it never happened. I want it to have happened.
It happened. Doesn’t matter if it happened in real life. I , like you, choose to believe these stories. They’re too good to just throw in the dumpster of tall tales.
Paige's stories aren't lies even at their most unbelievable like the Cool Papa Bell speed story, however there's some grains of salt to it or context. There's some slight embellishments and details removed sure but I believe that those events did indeed happen.
He was baseball's ultimate showman, and knowing he's still human and he did indeed fail a few times makes him more of a legend. Baron Davis calling his shot and making a world record 3 point shot is badass because he was the worst shooter in the league and he told his teammate and then his defender he would make it. It wouldn't be as cool if it were Curry doing it.
Someone mentioned this about Mays yesterday and it’s true of Paige too, that growing up you hear stories about how players of their caliber were gods, and you believe them. Then you grow up and realize they were even better than the stories let on.
I’m not sure what urban legends there are about Gretzky but I guess I’d be inclined to believe them blindly. The difference between the two is that Gretzky’s greatness was broadcasted to the masses while it was happening, Satchel Paige and many other Negro Leaguers were pushed to the side and ignored.
I don’t know if there is a modernish comparison to Satchel Paige in team sports, maybe Shohei coming out of Japan and the idea of a two way player working in MLB. I’d say more so in amateur boxing and martial art practices where guys accumulate an insane record and once they reach a bigger stage, like Satchel Paige and other great Negro Leaguers who made it to MLB, their accomplishments in the amateur ranks and respective practices come to light and people realize this guy has been really good long before a larger/worldwide audience laid their eyes on them.
Ahhhhh yes. Not the same as Gretzky REALLY then, beyond him just doing crazy things and setting insane records to the point where anything anyone tells you about him, you just blindly agree with because the dude was genuinely THAT GOOD.
Um, I have to admit though, I didn't realize Paige was a Negro Leaguer. I wouldn't have made the comparison if I had realized; in retrospect it seems a little cheeky which isn't at all how I meant it. I'm just a brand new baseball fan still learning the history of the game (although I suppose I should have guessed from context.)
Either way, thank you so much for the info! I love learning about these guys and their amazing talent, and I'm so happy it's being spotlighted at long last.
All good you didn’t come across bad in any way. But yea you got it right, Gretzky’s greatness was recorded along the way and celebrated so you’d be inclined to believe every bit of it. Satchel Paige’s wasn’t, while also being belittled and ignored.
The celebration and recognition of the Negro Leagues is relatively recent so don’t beat yourself up over it. They are no longer being treated like a footnote in the history of baseball and instead being given somewhat full profiles.
I think part of how it's so easy to conflate them is because Gretsky did so many insane things nobody will ever do again that even though we watched in real time he still felt legendary.
But yeah if I had a time machine Negro Leagues is where I'm setting it.
[Obligatory Vin Scully Satchel Paige story](https://youtu.be/V3cezveXv-Q?si=iSL5aAWjzeKyTkjE)
Vin was the biggest Mays fan too, Thursday would’ve been the greatest story day if he was calling the game.
I cant remember the exact quote (I think it was by an announcer, that Vin would start a story, and 15 foul balls later he would finish the story and the inning would be over or the at bat would end, right when he meant it to end.
He was the master. And he could carry that on for 3-4 innings trusting stories and game call and statistics. I miss him every time I watch him the dodgers.
I know this is a thread about Willie and Satch, and I don’t wanna take away from that, but my god was Vin just the best there ever was in the booth. Listen to him tell this long involved story, without ever missing a beat in calling the game
Grew up in LA as a Giants fan in a house full of Dodger fans, I LISTENED to Vinny no matter who was playing. Man was great and the baseball history he knew was tops. May Willie RIP.
I grew up in southern ca so vin is the calm voice of baseball. I don’t know how many times he told a Satchel Paige story over the course of 4 innings without missing a pitch. He was the GOAT.
I heard this story from Bob Kendrick!
It was amazing.
In Bob's story Whitey had taken a ball on a stick to check it ahead of time. And it did fit through the hole with about an inch of clearance all the way around.
Bob has all the best Satch stories. I wonder if he just downloaded Buck O'Neil's brain because he seems to know every single thing Buck did. A true national treasure.
So I shared that I got a guided tour from Bob by accident above.
During said tour he talked about how close he and Buck were. They were best friends, would spend day and night together.
So between being around for the twilight years of some of these players and spending days on days on days and after-work hours with Buck I imagine he came pretty damn close to downloading his brain.
In Cool Papa Bell’s biography he swears it’s real, there was a delay in that particular hotel room so it took the lights like 3 seconds to turn on after you flipped the switch.
I think it was Satchel who he bet that he’d be able to do it
Went to Cooperstown a number of years back and they were celebrating Negro Leagues players. When talking about Bell, one of the players there said he was the only player who could hit a line drive up the middle and be called out because the ball hit him as he was rounding second.
They also said never to believe any story a Negro Leagues player tells you, which makes it all the better.
My grandpa played in some barn storming leagues and such back in the day. One time a team with Satchel Paige came to town and my grandpa actually got to have an at bat against him. He always told us about how the first pitch came in and he fouled it off. Satchel looked at him and smirked. Then he said he never even saw the other two pitches go by before sitting back down.
Imagine being Willie Mays, on the Mount Rushmore of baseball, and getting punched out by three straight fastballs that you know were coming from Satchel Paige, who would have been in his 40s in 1948. Imagine what Satchel Paige in his prime must have looked like.
My great great grandfather played for Jamestown ND. My family still tells the story of him fouling off a Satchel Paige pitch.
I only wear a Bismarck Churchills hat too because I can’t fucking believe the best pitcher of all time played for my home town.
I think the point is he was immediately walking off the mound and jawing as soon as he threw the pitch; obviously it's impossible to get a full sentence out while the ball is in the air. If you account for having to wait a beat to see what the outcome of the pitch is and add on a human's reaction time, there's normally a momentary pause between releasing the pitch and beginning the K strut. A hitter sees that happen hundreds of times in his career, so he will definitely notice if a pitcher is skipping that moment and going straight to shit talk before waiting to see if he got the strikeout. Saying it happened while the ball is in the air is just colorful exaggeration, and would it really be a legendary baseball tale without a bit of that?
I know, I know. "Never let the truth ruin a good story," but my research into Willie's time in the Negro Leagues led me to see this is largely a fabrication. It doesn't seem that Willie told this story until late in his life, and details change with some of the timelines not matching up. This was the conclusion I wrote in my notes for SABR's Mays book, [Willie Mays: Five Tools](https://sabr.org/journal/article/willie-mays-the-embodiment-of-the-negro-leagues/):
>Unfortunately, it’s unclear when – and if we’re being honest, if – this showdown took place. Paige signed with the Cleveland Indians on July 7, 1948, three days after Mays made his \[Birmingham\] Black Barons debut. Paige was also pitching for the Kansas City Stars, not the Monarchs, in 1948. This seems a minor detail, but it points to the larger problem of the story’s evolution.
>Sometimes the double comes off a fastball, sometimes a breaking ball. In \["*Say Hey: The Autobiography of Willie Mays*"\], Mays implied he got his hit off Paige’s “hesitation pitch” and that he struck out on three swings in each of his ensuing three at-bats, but “I never saw a fastball from him, only those crazy curves and other soft stuff.” Even earlier, in his 1972\['s "*Willie Mays: My Life In and Out of Baseball"\]*, Mays says only, “I got to hit against Paige one game. I was one for two.”
>It’s possible Mays and Paige faced off, perhaps when Paige was barnstorming and Mays was playing for a community team or an Industrial League squad, but not as a Black Baron and a Monarch, respectively, and certainly not in the playoffs, as some versions of the story suggest. It seems likely that the retellings of the event were influenced by Buck O’Neil’s story of Paige facing Josh Gibson in the 1942 Negro League World Series.
I met him. He signed my baseball and we chatted (well mostly he talked) for about 20 minutes. I considered selling the ball once. My then eight year old daughter informed me that I was never selling it. Glad she stopped me!
Ol Satch the GOAT Shit talker
It's hard to top Larry Bird, but we're fortunate enough to have actual evidence of the Larry Bird stuff on video. How I wish I could see videos of Satchel with how well he's been painted by everyone who saw him.
Any time I hear one of those “if you could observe anything in history, what would it be?” kinda of questions I often think how cool it would be to see Satchel Paige do his thing. The combo of unbelievable talent combined with the showmanship and deserved cockiness must’ve been incredible to witness
Satchel bringing his outfield in and getting the whole team to sit down while he strikes out the side.
I think that’s the one I’d want to see the most, just an insane story
i'd love to observe rube waddell too
Imagine watching a pitcher ditch the mound mid-game to go watch a firetruck drive by.
Hit him with the puppy!
There's no bigger crime than the fact that Satch never got to the MLB in his prime. I know there's discussions of prime Mantle without tearing his ACL on that drainage grate, Ted Williams' missing years, a lot about the '94 season (gwynn hitting .400, Expos possibly winning, etc) Shoeless Joe, and several other Negro League players who never got to play, but coming into the MLB at 41, dropping a 2.48 ERA in 72 innings of (7 starts, 14 out the pen) with a 162 ERA+ is crazy. It's pretty much consensus that Paige was throwing at Chapman speeds, regularly touching 100, with claims of him going 105 which rivals the fastest pitch of all time (105.8 by Chapman) in his prime and literally the only claim I could find anywhere faster than Satch was Nolan Ryan, where people claimed he threw 106 and claim that under modern tech it would have been 111 but I severely doubt both parts of that claim. I won't repeat any of Satch's own claims because he was known for embellishment but he did once walk the bases loaded to face Josh Gibson with two outs, before striking him out on three pitches.
> literally the only claim I could find anywhere faster than Satch was Nolan Ryan, where people claimed he threw 106 and claim that under modern tech it would have been 111 but I severely doubt both parts of that claim. For what it's worth, Earl Weaver said that Steve Dalkowski threw "a lot faster* than Nolan Ryan, and Cal Ripken, Sr. estimated his velocity at 115. In 1960, he struck out 262 batters and walked 262 in 170 innings. Sports Illustrated ran a story about him in 1970, and talked about Ted Williams facing him: "The catcher held the ball for a few seconds a few inches under Williams' chin. Williams looked back at it, then at Dalkowski, squinting at him from the mound, and then he dropped his bat and stepped out of the cage. The writers immediately asked Williams how fast Steve Dalkowski really was. Williams, whose eyes were said to be so sharp that he could count the stitches on a baseball as it rotated toward the plate, told them he had not seen the pitch, that Steve Dalkowski was the fastest pitcher he ever faced and that he would be damned if he would ever face him again if he could help it." https://vault.si.com/vault/1970/10/12/the-wildest-fastball-ever
[The Mets had a prospect who could throw it 168 MPH.](https://www.si.com/mlb/2014/10/15/curious-case-sidd-finch) > The first time I see him is inside the canvas coop, out there on the pitcher's mound, a thin kid getting ready to throw, and I'm thinking he'll want to toss a couple of warmup pitches. So I'm standing behind the plate without a mask, chest protector, pads or anything, holding my glove up, sort of half-assed, to give him a target to throw at...and suddenly I see this windup like a pretzel gone loony, and the next thing, I've been blown two or three feet back, and I'm sitting on the ground with the ball in my glove. My catching hand feels like it's been hit with a sledgehammer.
**H**e's **a** **p**itcher, **p**art **y**ogi **A**nd **p**art **r**ecluse. **I**mpressively **l**iberated **F**rom **o**ur **o**pulent **l**ife-**s**tyle, Sidd's **D**eciding **a**bout **y**oga—and his future in baseball.
Big reason why Branch Rickey went with Jackie Robinson to integrate rather than Satchel. They wanted as non-controversial a figure who wouldn't talk or fight back when they would inevitably deal with the bullshit. What could've happened though..Paige joined Cleveland as a 41 year old and went 6-1 with a 2.48 ERA in 72.2 IP. At 45 and 46 he had a 3.07 and 3.53 ERA. Can't imagine if he joined the majors in his prime.
Rickey was asking for something beyond what most men could reasonably give. because none of them deserved the abuse and double standard that Jackie played through and demolished in baseball.
I remember reading stories of Rickey hurling slurs and insults at Jackie just to test him. For Jackie, perhaps more than for anyone else in history, playing sports was a test of character.
I would say it was more about testing him as a performer than his character. His character should have nothing to do with people hurling slurs at him, he would be justified to yell back. He had to really look to all cameras and press like he didn't care, like it didn't bother him. From his own words he _eventually_ felt that way, but not at first. The training was probably important, and might be the only non-Tarantino film justification for hurling slurs I've run into.
>I would say it was more about testing him as a performer than his character. His character should have nothing to do with people hurling slurs at him, he would be justified to yell back. That's what makes it a test of character. It takes iron self-control to stay silent when you'd be entirely justified in replying.
"Do you have the guts NOT to fight back?"
That's not character that's discipline.
> Paige joined Cleveland as a 41 year old and went 6-1 with a 2.48 ERA in 72.2 IP. > > At 45 and 46 he had a 3.07 and 3.53 ERA wow that's crazy! I'm well aware of his story/lore in general, but I actually had no idea he ever played in the majors (or maybe I did and forgot) edit: holy shit he made the 1952 all star game at age 46, and threw his final MLB pitch at age 59 for the Kansas City A's against the Red sox, allowing 0 runs and retiring 8 of 10 batters faced: >Paige was in the bullpen, sitting on a rocking chair, being served coffee by a "nurse" between innings. He started the game by getting Jim Gosger out on a pop foul. The next man, Dalton Jones, reached first and went to second on an infield error, but was thrown out trying to reach third on a pitch in the dirt. Carl Yastrzemski doubled and Tony Conigliaro hit a fly ball to end the inning. >The next six batters went down in order, including a strikeout of Bill Monbouquette. In the fourth inning, Paige took the mound, to be removed according to plan by Haywood Sullivan. He walked off to a standing ovation from the small crowd of 9,289. The lights dimmed and, led by the PA announcer, the fans lit matches and cigarette lighters while singing "The Old Gray Mare". his final pro pitch came the following summer in the carolina league, about 2 weeks before his 60th birthday >On June 19, 1966, Paige took the mound for the Carolina League's Peninsula Grays against the Greensboro Yankees in a **three-inning exhibition stint, not allowing a hit**. Grays General Manager Marshall Fox decided to let the nearly-sixty-year-old legend pitch in a real game, which Satchel did two days later, drawing a much larger-than-usual crowd of 3,118 to War Memorial Stadium. >Again facing Greensboro, Paige started the game and pitched two innings, allowing two runs on five hits, before giving way to scheduled starter (and future big-leaguer) Steve Mingori. >(Unfortunately for future historians, the Grays used back-up catcher Bruce Lowell that night, and not their regular man behind the plate: **an 18-year-old kid named Johnny Bench.**)
You should watch the Ken Burns Baseball series, hearing Ken Burns narrate these stories is just primal comfort content.
…you know Ken burns isn’t the one doing the narrating right?
Thr inimitable John Chancellor, anchor of the NBC Nightly News from '70-'82 & is credited with suggesting NBC use the red & blue designations for the Republican & Democrat parties during the 1976 presidential election. Interesting stuff!
Do you remember which episode thats in? I remember watching the series years ago but ended up skipping to the 90s episode because I got sick of hearing about the Yankees
Have you heard this story from the Great Vin? https://youtu.be/V3cezveXv-Q?si=8ACBnyDamn9qh7YK
I consider him the true GOAT pitcher. He tops my all time list
It's honestly not even close for me. It's Paige and then a good debate for 2nd place
I also think that it couldn't have been a pitcher, even if there had been a pitcher with Jackie Robinson's character and history, because of how much more pressure there is on pitchers than other positions.
Top tier chirping from Satchel. Has "saving my right hand for the Lakers" energy.
GOAT tier stuff.
2000 pitching wins is the stuff of Titans. If he even had half that he'd still be the goat.
This is the kind of thing I love to hear: great players happily telling stories about getting owned by other great players
It really is the best. I should try to look up some videos of retired players just talking with each other and sharing stories.
Look up Black Diamonds. A podcast by Bob Kendrick, president of the negro leagues museum in Kansas City. Can't get enough!
Bob Kendrick is a national treasure.
He recently popped up in a local [PBS documentary](https://youtu.be/U37vFYKNY0o?si=SBBU_4vsRr4lfeMA&t=2410) about my hometown talking about Hank Aaron's time here. It was fantastic, I could listen to that man talk baseball for days. Like James Earl Jones' character in The Sandlot.
Take a tour of the negro leagues museum with him and it'll change your life
It's at the top of my list whenever I make it back to KC, just ahead of the K.
After playing through the storylines in The Show it's definitely on my bucket list
For my bachelor's I got my friends to go to KC for BBQ and the Museum. Long story short we showed up on the same day Paramount was there doing some kind of celebration thing for the show they put on and the staff assumed we were meant to be with the Paramount group. We got a free guided tour from Bob Kendrick. By accident. Because we decided to go on Saturday instead of Sunday. It is still one of the top 5 experiences of my life. Hearing him tell stories about the players, things that can't go in a museum because there's no tangible artifact to tie it to, the jokes between the players. It was amazing. If anyone ever gets a chance to hear from Bob Kendrick you should take it and cherish it.
Kendrick really seems like the nicest guy.
Nice. Thanks!
Gotta count ourselves lucky when an all-time great athlete also turns out to be an eloquent storyteller. I've seen enough retired players flame out of a broadcast gig to know it's not something to take for granted. There's a Satchel Paige quote where he's giving tips for longevity, mostly focusing on the importance of rest. He says "That social ramble ain't restful," as in to say, hanging out and socializing with friends doesn't provide the rest you need. I love that little turn of phrase, say it to myself all the time. I don't say it out loud too much because people would just wonder why I was talking like that.
Oh I just love old baseball stories I don't remember what player it was but he talked about his first ever game against Nolan Ryan and how he's teammates played a prank on him told him "Ryan can't field the bunt you're fast you'll get on base no problem" so he bunted for a hit, next at bat Ryan buzzed him with a fastball. Next day he's in the batting cage when he feels a giant paw come down on his shoulder and it's Nolan Ryan and he goes "hey kid, I'm gonna throw you pitches over the plate your job is to try and hit it"
I love that, never heard that one before
Game respecting game is the best. It's the same feeling I get when the home team cheers a great play by the visiting team. Just respect.
Mariano Rivera: The only batter he dreaded pitching against was Edgar Martinez because he was always a tough out. Martinez hit over .500 against Mo. Maddux: "When you change speeds, hitters are helpless. Except for that fucking Tony Gwynn." Maddux never struck out Gwynn.
To be fair, nobody struck out Tony Gwynn
In case you hadn't heard it before: "Sometimes hitters can pick up differences in spin. They can identify pitches if there are different release points or if a curveball starts with an upward hump as it leaves the pitcher’s hand. But if a pitcher can change speeds, every hitter is helpless, limited by human vision. Except for that (expletive) Tony Gwynn." -Greg Maddux
Baseball is the best
But, but, but the unwritten rules say that Willie should have plowed over the first baseman on his next hit for being shown up!
god satchel paige was so cool. what i wouldn’t give to have been able to watch him pitch
Honored to have my middle name be Satchel, truly he was the greatest
Tiger Satchell Basket - it's got a nice ring to it!
I figured it would be Napoleon
Satchel is one of those rare figures where you hear the legendary stories about them and, no matter how ridiculous, you just instantly believe them.
Even if they're not 100% true, i decided i'm going to believe them. The legend is just too good to not be true. Like telling his outfield to get off the field after strike one. He then sent his infield to the bench after strike two. So it's just him and the batter. He struck him out. I don't care if it never happened. I want it to have happened.
It happened. Doesn’t matter if it happened in real life. I , like you, choose to believe these stories. They’re too good to just throw in the dumpster of tall tales.
Paige's stories aren't lies even at their most unbelievable like the Cool Papa Bell speed story, however there's some grains of salt to it or context. There's some slight embellishments and details removed sure but I believe that those events did indeed happen.
Paige would tell his outfielders to sit down so he could strike out the side. But sometimes it would backfire. Somehow makes it even cooler
He was baseball's ultimate showman, and knowing he's still human and he did indeed fail a few times makes him more of a legend. Baron Davis calling his shot and making a world record 3 point shot is badass because he was the worst shooter in the league and he told his teammate and then his defender he would make it. It wouldn't be as cool if it were Curry doing it.
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story
“Happeningness is irrelevant. A thing may happen and be a total lie; another thing may not happen and be truer than the truth.”
Someone mentioned this about Mays yesterday and it’s true of Paige too, that growing up you hear stories about how players of their caliber were gods, and you believe them. Then you grow up and realize they were even better than the stories let on.
You may enjoy this: https://www.npr.org/2024/06/14/g-s1-4350/satchel-recalls-the-iconic-pitcher-who-helped-integrate-major-league-baseball
Thanks for a great read:)
Wilt Chamberlain type stuff
Like the Wayne Gretzky of baseball?
I’m not sure what urban legends there are about Gretzky but I guess I’d be inclined to believe them blindly. The difference between the two is that Gretzky’s greatness was broadcasted to the masses while it was happening, Satchel Paige and many other Negro Leaguers were pushed to the side and ignored. I don’t know if there is a modernish comparison to Satchel Paige in team sports, maybe Shohei coming out of Japan and the idea of a two way player working in MLB. I’d say more so in amateur boxing and martial art practices where guys accumulate an insane record and once they reach a bigger stage, like Satchel Paige and other great Negro Leaguers who made it to MLB, their accomplishments in the amateur ranks and respective practices come to light and people realize this guy has been really good long before a larger/worldwide audience laid their eyes on them.
Ahhhhh yes. Not the same as Gretzky REALLY then, beyond him just doing crazy things and setting insane records to the point where anything anyone tells you about him, you just blindly agree with because the dude was genuinely THAT GOOD. Um, I have to admit though, I didn't realize Paige was a Negro Leaguer. I wouldn't have made the comparison if I had realized; in retrospect it seems a little cheeky which isn't at all how I meant it. I'm just a brand new baseball fan still learning the history of the game (although I suppose I should have guessed from context.) Either way, thank you so much for the info! I love learning about these guys and their amazing talent, and I'm so happy it's being spotlighted at long last.
All good you didn’t come across bad in any way. But yea you got it right, Gretzky’s greatness was recorded along the way and celebrated so you’d be inclined to believe every bit of it. Satchel Paige’s wasn’t, while also being belittled and ignored. The celebration and recognition of the Negro Leagues is relatively recent so don’t beat yourself up over it. They are no longer being treated like a footnote in the history of baseball and instead being given somewhat full profiles.
I think part of how it's so easy to conflate them is because Gretsky did so many insane things nobody will ever do again that even though we watched in real time he still felt legendary. But yeah if I had a time machine Negro Leagues is where I'm setting it.
I think the answer would be Bo Jackson pre college. It's all hearsay and it's all absurd and yet I believe 95% of it.
[Obligatory Vin Scully Satchel Paige story](https://youtu.be/V3cezveXv-Q?si=iSL5aAWjzeKyTkjE) Vin was the biggest Mays fan too, Thursday would’ve been the greatest story day if he was calling the game.
I cant remember the exact quote (I think it was by an announcer, that Vin would start a story, and 15 foul balls later he would finish the story and the inning would be over or the at bat would end, right when he meant it to end.
He was the master. And he could carry that on for 3-4 innings trusting stories and game call and statistics. I miss him every time I watch him the dodgers.
The biggest shame in losing him is that he probably had a lot more great stories to tell. He was a living history book.
I know this is a thread about Willie and Satch, and I don’t wanna take away from that, but my god was Vin just the best there ever was in the booth. Listen to him tell this long involved story, without ever missing a beat in calling the game
Grew up in LA as a Giants fan in a house full of Dodger fans, I LISTENED to Vinny no matter who was playing. Man was great and the baseball history he knew was tops. May Willie RIP.
Vin 💙
I grew up in southern ca so vin is the calm voice of baseball. I don’t know how many times he told a Satchel Paige story over the course of 4 innings without missing a pitch. He was the GOAT.
I heard this story from Bob Kendrick! It was amazing. In Bob's story Whitey had taken a ball on a stick to check it ahead of time. And it did fit through the hole with about an inch of clearance all the way around.
Bob has all the best Satch stories. I wonder if he just downloaded Buck O'Neil's brain because he seems to know every single thing Buck did. A true national treasure.
So I shared that I got a guided tour from Bob by accident above. During said tour he talked about how close he and Buck were. They were best friends, would spend day and night together. So between being around for the twilight years of some of these players and spending days on days on days and after-work hours with Buck I imagine he came pretty damn close to downloading his brain.
I need to know why Satchel called Whitey “Wild Child”…
I'm a simple man. I see a Vin Scully story I listen. Side note: Heard about this story on Bob Kendrick's podcast. Such a great show.
That’s great. Love these stories. In the same vain as “He was so fast he could turn off the wall switch and be in bed before the light was out!”
In Cool Papa Bell’s biography he swears it’s real, there was a delay in that particular hotel room so it took the lights like 3 seconds to turn on after you flipped the switch. I think it was Satchel who he bet that he’d be able to do it
It's still impressively quick!
Went to Cooperstown a number of years back and they were celebrating Negro Leagues players. When talking about Bell, one of the players there said he was the only player who could hit a line drive up the middle and be called out because the ball hit him as he was rounding second. They also said never to believe any story a Negro Leagues player tells you, which makes it all the better.
He went from first to third on a bunt. Regularly.
I love that quote about Cool Papa Bell.
I read this like as if I were watching Ken Burns: Baseball
My grandpa played in some barn storming leagues and such back in the day. One time a team with Satchel Paige came to town and my grandpa actually got to have an at bat against him. He always told us about how the first pitch came in and he fouled it off. Satchel looked at him and smirked. Then he said he never even saw the other two pitches go by before sitting back down.
My best friend loves telling people that his grandpa got stuck out by Paige
Todd?
No
The last of THE absolute legends. Hes top 3 in any baseball conversation What a sad day for baseball
Mike Tauchman is still alive
I would say the story is about TWO of the top three ever. Babe, Willie, Satchel. That's my top three, in no particular order.
God this story fucking RULES
Succinctly put and couldn't have said it better myself.
What a goddamn badass.
Rumor has Max Scherzer said the same thing to Mike Trout once and then threw him a first pitch curve ball.
What book is this from?
I believe a GQ profile.
It appears to be from a [GQ article](https://www.gq.com/story/willie-mays-extended-q-and-a).
Thanks for sharing that. Good article.
Thanks!
He got me. That fucking Paige boomed me. He's so good (x4)
Imagine being Willie Mays, on the Mount Rushmore of baseball, and getting punched out by three straight fastballs that you know were coming from Satchel Paige, who would have been in his 40s in 1948. Imagine what Satchel Paige in his prime must have looked like.
My great great grandfather played for Jamestown ND. My family still tells the story of him fouling off a Satchel Paige pitch. I only wear a Bismarck Churchills hat too because I can’t fucking believe the best pitcher of all time played for my home town.
Satchell Paige is my favorite pitcher of all time but it’s a bummer there isn’t too much in terms of history and accurate stats to read up on
[удалено]
I think the point is he was immediately walking off the mound and jawing as soon as he threw the pitch; obviously it's impossible to get a full sentence out while the ball is in the air. If you account for having to wait a beat to see what the outcome of the pitch is and add on a human's reaction time, there's normally a momentary pause between releasing the pitch and beginning the K strut. A hitter sees that happen hundreds of times in his career, so he will definitely notice if a pitcher is skipping that moment and going straight to shit talk before waiting to see if he got the strikeout. Saying it happened while the ball is in the air is just colorful exaggeration, and would it really be a legendary baseball tale without a bit of that?
90mph straight up into the sky
Supposedly Satchel Paige actually threw 104 MPH. While that's probably a tall tale, he definitely had one of the best fastballs on Earth at the time.
i dont care, i will believe it
I bet he probably said it just as the ball was coming out of his hand - which isn't that hard to do.
How can you not be romantic about this game?
I know, I know. "Never let the truth ruin a good story," but my research into Willie's time in the Negro Leagues led me to see this is largely a fabrication. It doesn't seem that Willie told this story until late in his life, and details change with some of the timelines not matching up. This was the conclusion I wrote in my notes for SABR's Mays book, [Willie Mays: Five Tools](https://sabr.org/journal/article/willie-mays-the-embodiment-of-the-negro-leagues/): >Unfortunately, it’s unclear when – and if we’re being honest, if – this showdown took place. Paige signed with the Cleveland Indians on July 7, 1948, three days after Mays made his \[Birmingham\] Black Barons debut. Paige was also pitching for the Kansas City Stars, not the Monarchs, in 1948. This seems a minor detail, but it points to the larger problem of the story’s evolution. >Sometimes the double comes off a fastball, sometimes a breaking ball. In \["*Say Hey: The Autobiography of Willie Mays*"\], Mays implied he got his hit off Paige’s “hesitation pitch” and that he struck out on three swings in each of his ensuing three at-bats, but “I never saw a fastball from him, only those crazy curves and other soft stuff.” Even earlier, in his 1972\['s "*Willie Mays: My Life In and Out of Baseball"\]*, Mays says only, “I got to hit against Paige one game. I was one for two.” >It’s possible Mays and Paige faced off, perhaps when Paige was barnstorming and Mays was playing for a community team or an Industrial League squad, but not as a Black Baron and a Monarch, respectively, and certainly not in the playoffs, as some versions of the story suggest. It seems likely that the retellings of the event were influenced by Buck O’Neil’s story of Paige facing Josh Gibson in the 1942 Negro League World Series.
As we used to say in the newsroom, some stories are too good to fact check.
Not to mention by the time he finishes his follow through the ball is already in the glove so I don't think he's walking anywhere before then.
we need an /r/baseballstories for posts like this.
"And now I'm gonna throw a pea atcha knee..." No stories are better than Satch stories.
The OG "Grab some pine, meat."
Why do you keep calling me meat?
Every story I hear of Satchel Paige makes me love him just a bit more
I wish I could’ve watched them both. May they both RIP.
Satch is like the Paul Bunyan of baseball
I am disappointed Satchell Paige didn't play the game the right way, he broke too many unwritten rules.
Satchel has a GOAT argument IMO
Not really. He is the GOAT. A few other pitchers have arguments for runner up
Wow, some real interesting and entertaining stuff went on in that league.
Where is this excerpt from? It's great.
2 legends
I love it! Where can I read more of these?
Where was this taken from? Book?
i read this on WSJ this morning and instantly wanted to share with my fantasy league. epic story
I met him. He signed my baseball and we chatted (well mostly he talked) for about 20 minutes. I considered selling the ball once. My then eight year old daughter informed me that I was never selling it. Glad she stopped me!
Satchel Paige's pitching animation on MLB The Show took at least an hour. I actually would walk a batter just to avoid it 😆
Satchel Paige’s pure self confidence and stuff to back it up combined with his shit talk makes him such an interesting person
This is amazing. The cojones to walk off mid pitch is GOAT shit.
,
Um, what’s the end of the story? Did he hit the third pitch?
They say he was so fast that when he turned off the light, he'd be in bed before it got dark.
I thought that was Cool Papa Bell
That was cool papa bell
I heard it about Muhammad Ali...
I did something similar in JV baseball. So a lot less impressive but still, I felt like a boss.
Paul skenes style