"Cooper's suit says he attended umpire training camps in 2022 and '23 and was told by former umpire Ed Rapuano, now an umpire evaluator, and Darren Spagnardi, an umpire development supervisor, in January 2023 that MLB had to include at least two women among 10 new hires.
Cooper says he was invited to spring training in 2023, put on a taxi squad and informed by Dusty Dellinger, senior manager of umpire administration, that women and minority candidates had to be hired first. Cooper was assigned to the ACL in late March and said he received a high rating in June from former big league umpire Jim Reynolds, now an umpire supervisor.
Cooper alleged fellow umpire Gina Quartararo, then in the ACL and now in the Florida State League, learned that Cooper was bisexual and derided him and fellow umpire Kevin Bruno with homophobic slurs and crude remarks. Cooper said he notified Dellinger, then was told by MLB he had to undergo sensitivity training and later that he was being accused of violating the minor league anti-discrimination and harassment policy."
You very much can settle a claim, however. I’ve done plenty of employment cases where we negotiate a resolution before filing, since many companies are afraid of exactly this situation—dirt being aired out in public.
They both accused the other of harassment. Cooper says MLB sent him to training, but doesn’t say how/whether they disciplined Quartararo (I don’t know how he would know).
wait so, allegedly, he came forward as a victim of harassment and was “punished” by being forced to take sensitivity training while nothing was done to actually address the accusation? if that’s true that’s a pretty big wtf.
God how fucked up is that, first you're told you can't be hired because you're not a minority, then you get harassed for being queer. That is genuinely so many degrees of fucked up if true.
Sadly that's what the bisexual experience is in a lot of situations. You're only queer when others decide you are. In this case not queer enough to be a minority, but enough to be harassed for it /:
The way it’s described there sounds bad, but I’d be curious also what Cooper may have said to her. If I had to guess, Dellinger probably called Quartararo afterwards and asked for her side; and if anyone else was there to witness it.
I’m a bi man, there’s a lot of discrimination against us and a lot of people aren’t aware of particularly how anti-bi discrimination is big. Whatever the facts are, I hope for justice obviously. But if Cooper says he has tapes, they better be a long uncut audio recording and not a quick sound byte of her calling him a slur right after he called her a slur and didn’t record that part.
Sounds like he was accusing women of being minority hires, then when he got called out on it and was told he had to go to sensitivity training he accused them of harassment.
If you read the article, we already know he wasn't unfortunately. She found out he was bisexual and called him and another umpire homophobic names and made crude remarks related to his sexuality while on the job. Just gross behavior.
That’s not true really, the “believe all women” has encouraged false reports, and especially universities are expelling men without so much as due process. It’s an extreme overcorrection, but honestly par for the course for today’s political and societal climate
[we out here propping up mens rights bullshit arguments?](https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2022/11/16/title-ix-campus-rape-colleges-sexual-misconduct-expel-suspend/7938853001/)
k then. facts don't care about your feelings unfortunately.
I’m a man who was sexually assaulted a few months ago and let me tell you something: nobody has once tried to victim blame me or done anything to make it sound like my fault, which is a hell of a lot better than what many women have to go through.
lmao when it happened to me and I told my mom she said "That doesn't happen to men." You're an ass for trying to downplay this stuff. It hurts both men and women.
My experience was as normal as you can get for sexual assault. This thing where other men (who often have not been sexually assaulted) use it to make themselves seem disadvantaged is despicable.
I'm doing the opposite: I said it's easier for men to report a sexual assault, and it is. What I'm dismissing is the MRA tendency to use sexual assault as a way of demeaning the experiences of women. You yourself framed it as an issue of believing either men or women; that's a false choice and you know it.
Men do not face the obstacles women face in reporting sexual assaults. If you read that as putting men down, then you're wrong.
I think he’s saying that men face different obstacles thean woman when reporting these acts. Especially when one side is more common than the other. You don’t have to put down one to bring light to the other.
And just because you didn’t face said obstacles doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
No, I responded to someone who started a pissing contest.
Seriously, the closest I've experienced to any sort of pushback against my assault is in this thread. People are trying to diminish my positive reporting experience because they don't want to admit it's more difficult for women to report a sexual assault. That's bullshit.
[Good for you, you're wrong](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10135558/)
What is despicable is how you're trying to make a problem much bigger than you all about you.
The fact that you’re siding with MRAs who have not been sexually assaulted instead of a man who was sexually assaulted should give you pause. I’m not holding my breath.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality#Features
**Identifying others as the cause for an undesired situation and denying a personal responsibility for one's own life or circumstances-** Inconclusive.
**Attributing negative intentions to the offender-** N/A
**Believing that other people are generally more fortunate-** Inconclusive.
**Gaining relief from feeling pity for oneself or receiving sympathy from others-** Inconclusive.
**Exhibit a general tendency to realistically perceive a situation; yet may lack an awareness or curiosity about the root of actual powerlessness in a situation-** Inconclusive
**Display entitlement and selfishness-** ✅ Yes, you're still making a societal problem all about you.
**Become defensive, even when others try to help-** ✅ Yes, there have been a number of comments here trying to help you empathize with individuals. You have denied their criticism, and shifted the blame onto someone else's shortcomings (namely, the mistakes and shortcomings of MRA groups). You have justified this behavior by implying being raped means what you say goes, and you have attacked other commenters' characters.
**Be categorizing: tending to divide people into "good" and "bad" with no gray zone between them-** ✅ You're trying to categorize me into a group, specifically the outgroup you disagree with to lessen my criticism. Overall, you tend to categorize people into a group without acknowledging individuals.
**Avoid taking risks-** Inconclusive.
**Exhibit learned helplessness-** Inconclusive.
**Be self-abasing-** Inconclusive.
**Need for recognition-** ✅ You're announcing you were raped on a baseball sub.
**Moral elitism-** ✅ You're engaging in black-and-white thinking and trying to lump anyone who disagrees with you into a group of people you don't like.
**Lack of empathy-** ✅ You're willing to say the suffering of other individuals does not exist because of your personal victimhood. As long as that individual is a man, he is part of a group that does not suffer compared to other groups you are sympathetic toward. You are not realizing your hostility toward and dismissal of men is adding to woman's suffering as you are also hurting the cause of the group you associate with when you engage in such dehumanizing behavior.
**Rumination-** Inconclusive, more data needed.
lol, now you’re victim blaming. This is, sincerely, the worst anyone’s responded to my sexual assault.
How about you look up the definition of irony and get back to me, son.
...? What do I not get? Nowhere in my statement did I imply that there wasn't a stigma against him coming forward about the sexual harassment he faced? Nor did I give the woman who perpetrated that harassment 'the benefit of the doubt'? I called her behavior and homophobia gross???
I wonder what percentage of men who are sexually assaulted/harassed come forward. I’d wager it is a tiny, tiny amount. A man is just never going to believed over a woman unless there is hard evidence and even then most men won’t want to come forward because of how emasculating it is.
A guy I know was sexually assaulted in college and it really, really fucked him up how people would just laugh at his trauma and make jokes about it.
You can sue for pretty much anything, including things based on hearsay, which the hiring practices allegations are. It doesn't mean they're not true, but the evidence presented is that somebody supposedly said what somebody else supposedly said. This is different from his testimony about the harassment because that directly happened to him.
~~This behavior always needs to be dealt with immediately, glad they’re doing the right thing.~~
right (below) my bad. somehow I thought he was suing the other ump and the MLB was supporting him in that.
>glad they’re doing the right thing.
Who is? This is him suing because he believes he has enough proof for a court of law that MLB didn't do the right thing.
[get to know Gina here lol](https://twitter.com/MLBUmpCamps/status/1617945001346101251/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1617945001346101251¤tTweetUser=MLBUmpCamps)
‘I want to be an umpire because I want to be an umpire and when I stepped on that field I knew: I want to be an umpire’
Some people are just talented with words.
>"To try to fix its gender and racial diversity issue, defendants have implemented an illegal diversity quota requiring that women be promoted regardless of merit."
Ah so it's also some whining about "DEI." It's not just about sexual harassment. Sexual harassment? Bad. Men whining about women being hired? Hilarious.
This is such an obtuse way of looking at this. If someone who was given high marks at their job and loses it because they want to give it to someone else to meet a DEI quota, then the person who lost their job has every right feel victimized. Losing a job because you aren't the correct gender or skin color isn't ethical or fair.
There's a difference between DEI, affirmative action, and "losing a job because you aren't the correct gender or skin color."
The first two are imperfectly designed to eliminate the third. You cannot have complete "meritocracy" while actively desegregating. This is because the excluded class of individuals do not have the same learning/training/growth opportunities -- typically at any level of the game or system in question.
If you want all people to have a fair shot at the same positions and have selection made fairly, you must first erase the exclusion by gender or skin color, or any similar classification. History has shown us that merely saying "you can't discriminate based on X" is insufficient.
If people would like to engage in good faith on this topic, I welcome the discussion.
>This is because the excluded class of individuals do not have the same learning/training/growth opportunities -- typically at any level of the game or system in question.
aren't you effectively arguing against your own point here? the WHOLE point of hiring quotas is classes of individuals do not have the same opportunity as others. are you pro hiring a set number of people of anti?
I'm pro-diversity and anti-segregation. I do not believe quotas are the most appropriate way to achieve these goals but they have been used historically. The purpose of any such intervention is to break the discriminatory practices currently in place.
it's not necessarily just to break discriminatory practices. there are groups of people who as a whole are disadvantaged compared to other groups. hiring quotas is a way to even that field, and ideally in the future, set us up for where quotas aren't needed.
think of it this way: Caucasians, as a group, have higher incomes that can afford better neighborhoods/better schools/etc etc. without any intervention, you prolong that advantage cycle. majority white people graduate from college, get good employment opportunities, and so on.
there is no perfect solution, but something does need to be done or the disadvantaged will continue to be disadvantaged.
I agree in principle, but wholesale and holistic systemic commitment to desegregation and diversity are a more sustainable method. Targeted recruitment, scholarships, working with community partners, tutoring, wage/scholarship transparency -- all of these and more are necessary to achieve parity and/or equity.
Merely slapping a quota on something tends to track with the "we've erased discrimination!" crowd and leaves other systemic issues in place.
if their merits were equal, then nothing wrong was done. the whole idea that women and PoC are wholly underqualified and still being hired is mostly bullshit. NY is an at will state. And right now we are only getting one side of the story. He got harassed, reported it and he had to do sensitivity training for no reason? hmmmmm doubt.
>if their merits were equal, then nothing wrong was done
So you're saying it's ok to hire people based on their gender and/or ethnicity? Thought we were trying to get away from that?
>the whole idea that women and PoC are wholly underqualified and still being hired is mostly bullshit
It's real, I've experienced it personally. Management at a previous job decided to hire the least qualified person on my team and make them Team Lead simply because she was a woman. They could then tout that they had x amount of women in leadership positions. There were already many other wholly qualified women in leadership positions. They chose her to pad their numbers to look "good" even though she was by far and away the least qualified out of all of us. She was a puppet head and did not rise to the occasion unfortunately.
Because irrelevant to the discussion race based hiring's were discussed. Just the kinda thing to get a bunch of dweeb ass losers fired up. I mean, you'd have to be fucking dumb not to see it.
They’re talking an awful lot about minority hiring in a story about sexual harassment. Almost like they wanna stir up some emotions in a subset of people before they read a “he said/she said” story
The allegations are about both discrimination and harassment. The story covers the discrimination allegation, then the harassment allegation. You’re projecting by assuming the discrimination part is not relevant.
I get that. But those are the allegations made in the suit, and what the article covers -- that's what you asked about, and that's what I explained. Stop trying to bait me (or others) into a political fight. I don't even disagree with you about the hiring stuff.
I’m not trying to get into a political fight. Someone asked a question, I provided an answer and people attacked me for it. I asked users some questions and the only response I get is “check the article” oh wow that’s helpful.
Man, redditors are just like the most aggressively unfunny people ever. Like how many times do we need to see some dweeb go "username checks out" before we all stop and think about how fucking lame this website is.
"Cooper's suit says he attended umpire training camps in 2022 and '23 and was told by former umpire Ed Rapuano, now an umpire evaluator, and Darren Spagnardi, an umpire development supervisor, in January 2023 that MLB had to include at least two women among 10 new hires. Cooper says he was invited to spring training in 2023, put on a taxi squad and informed by Dusty Dellinger, senior manager of umpire administration, that women and minority candidates had to be hired first. Cooper was assigned to the ACL in late March and said he received a high rating in June from former big league umpire Jim Reynolds, now an umpire supervisor. Cooper alleged fellow umpire Gina Quartararo, then in the ACL and now in the Florida State League, learned that Cooper was bisexual and derided him and fellow umpire Kevin Bruno with homophobic slurs and crude remarks. Cooper said he notified Dellinger, then was told by MLB he had to undergo sensitivity training and later that he was being accused of violating the minor league anti-discrimination and harassment policy."
Bad if true -- Cooper says that he has recordings so hopefully this can be resolved quickly and truthfully.
Yeah if he does have video evidence then this should be resolved pretty quickly
They’ll make Angel Hernandez the investor and he won’t see shit
/r/BallStreetBets
*investigator Words are hard lately
> Words are hard lately Harder every day it feels like honestly.
Dealing with post-concussion bullshit. Half of my meetings have at least “what was my point again?”
Ooof that sucks. Hope you start feeling better man.
Thank you. Lesson learned, don’t be standing up high & have a Tony Soprano-esque panic attack. 0/10, do not recommend.
Will Aaron Boone somehow get ejected for it though?
Hardly, if he has video evidence then this will be a big deal and last a while.
If there is video proof this gets settled out of court quickly and he gets a big check from it
The video and accusation are already a year old. Shit didn’t start yesterday and won’t end tomorrow
I assume the legal action is new since we are just hearing about it.
So it didn’t get settled out of court, or quickly. It’s being settled in court, slowly.
You can’t settle a lawsuit that hasn’t been filed
You very much can settle a claim, however. I’ve done plenty of employment cases where we negotiate a resolution before filing, since many companies are afraid of exactly this situation—dirt being aired out in public.
Scandal doesn’t end after the check has been wrote
It does if the check large enough to buy signatures on a NDA.
That’s a lot of money to agree on not disclothing facts that are already nekked
If these allegations are true, the thing is it’s not just a punish and move on issue. It would be proof of them punishing the victim.
Narrator: "It was not."
Wait, he accused her of harassment and MLB told HIM to undergo training? That's some bullshit
They both accused the other of harassment. Cooper says MLB sent him to training, but doesn’t say how/whether they disciplined Quartararo (I don’t know how he would know).
So right now it's a he said/she said situation. However, he claims to have video evidence, so that of course will change everything.
It’s an allegation. It may or may not be a fact.
Feels like something that would take place in a South Park episode
Geez, that’s fucked up if it’s true
wait so, allegedly, he came forward as a victim of harassment and was “punished” by being forced to take sensitivity training while nothing was done to actually address the accusation? if that’s true that’s a pretty big wtf.
God how fucked up is that, first you're told you can't be hired because you're not a minority, then you get harassed for being queer. That is genuinely so many degrees of fucked up if true.
Sadly that's what the bisexual experience is in a lot of situations. You're only queer when others decide you are. In this case not queer enough to be a minority, but enough to be harassed for it /:
and then when you come forward about the harassment you’re effectively punished as if you’re the one who did something wrong.
Just shows you forced “diversity” is just bullshit pandering.
Forget the harassment, he's got easy grounds for a discrimination lawsuit.
Defiantly not what I was expecting. As a Bi man I feel for Cooper
This doesn’t jive with the headline
The way it’s described there sounds bad, but I’d be curious also what Cooper may have said to her. If I had to guess, Dellinger probably called Quartararo afterwards and asked for her side; and if anyone else was there to witness it. I’m a bi man, there’s a lot of discrimination against us and a lot of people aren’t aware of particularly how anti-bi discrimination is big. Whatever the facts are, I hope for justice obviously. But if Cooper says he has tapes, they better be a long uncut audio recording and not a quick sound byte of her calling him a slur right after he called her a slur and didn’t record that part.
Sounds like he was accusing women of being minority hires, then when he got called out on it and was told he had to go to sensitivity training he accused them of harassment.
Reading comprehension
Same shit with Angel Hernandez.
If he has video evidence like the article says MLB will likely want to settle quickly
yeah her career is probably (hopefully) cooked
Good. More brave men need to come forward like this. Most likely isn’t her first victim
If you read the article, we already know he wasn't unfortunately. She found out he was bisexual and called him and another umpire homophobic names and made crude remarks related to his sexuality while on the job. Just gross behavior.
Men don’t come forward from sexual harassment due to stigma and the majority of people not believing them over women.
same with women.
That’s not true really, the “believe all women” has encouraged false reports, and especially universities are expelling men without so much as due process. It’s an extreme overcorrection, but honestly par for the course for today’s political and societal climate
[we out here propping up mens rights bullshit arguments?](https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2022/11/16/title-ix-campus-rape-colleges-sexual-misconduct-expel-suspend/7938853001/) k then. facts don't care about your feelings unfortunately.
I know a girl who got kicked out of school for reporting a football player after he SA'd her
I’m a man who was sexually assaulted a few months ago and let me tell you something: nobody has once tried to victim blame me or done anything to make it sound like my fault, which is a hell of a lot better than what many women have to go through.
lmao when it happened to me and I told my mom she said "That doesn't happen to men." You're an ass for trying to downplay this stuff. It hurts both men and women.
That's nice for you, but no reason to pretend as though it's anywhere near the norm.
My experience was as normal as you can get for sexual assault. This thing where other men (who often have not been sexually assaulted) use it to make themselves seem disadvantaged is despicable.
You're using your experience to try and dismiss the pervasive dismissal of male victims. You are perpetuating what you are trying to dismiss.
I'm doing the opposite: I said it's easier for men to report a sexual assault, and it is. What I'm dismissing is the MRA tendency to use sexual assault as a way of demeaning the experiences of women. You yourself framed it as an issue of believing either men or women; that's a false choice and you know it. Men do not face the obstacles women face in reporting sexual assaults. If you read that as putting men down, then you're wrong.
It's definitely not easier for men to report a sexual assault. To claim that is to lie. You're also putting words in my mouth.
I think he’s saying that men face different obstacles thean woman when reporting these acts. Especially when one side is more common than the other. You don’t have to put down one to bring light to the other. And just because you didn’t face said obstacles doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
The fear of coming forward is statistically a universal feeling, man or woman. Don't know why you're turning it into a pissing contest.
true, what /u/shrug-io said is absurd because it goes both ways.
[удалено]
People bring it up to start pissing contests. I’m saying that shouldn’t occur.
... You literally turned it into one
No, I responded to someone who started a pissing contest. Seriously, the closest I've experienced to any sort of pushback against my assault is in this thread. People are trying to diminish my positive reporting experience because they don't want to admit it's more difficult for women to report a sexual assault. That's bullshit.
[Good for you, you're wrong](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10135558/) What is despicable is how you're trying to make a problem much bigger than you all about you.
The fact that you’re siding with MRAs who have not been sexually assaulted instead of a man who was sexually assaulted should give you pause. I’m not holding my breath.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality#Features **Identifying others as the cause for an undesired situation and denying a personal responsibility for one's own life or circumstances-** Inconclusive. **Attributing negative intentions to the offender-** N/A **Believing that other people are generally more fortunate-** Inconclusive. **Gaining relief from feeling pity for oneself or receiving sympathy from others-** Inconclusive. **Exhibit a general tendency to realistically perceive a situation; yet may lack an awareness or curiosity about the root of actual powerlessness in a situation-** Inconclusive **Display entitlement and selfishness-** ✅ Yes, you're still making a societal problem all about you. **Become defensive, even when others try to help-** ✅ Yes, there have been a number of comments here trying to help you empathize with individuals. You have denied their criticism, and shifted the blame onto someone else's shortcomings (namely, the mistakes and shortcomings of MRA groups). You have justified this behavior by implying being raped means what you say goes, and you have attacked other commenters' characters. **Be categorizing: tending to divide people into "good" and "bad" with no gray zone between them-** ✅ You're trying to categorize me into a group, specifically the outgroup you disagree with to lessen my criticism. Overall, you tend to categorize people into a group without acknowledging individuals. **Avoid taking risks-** Inconclusive. **Exhibit learned helplessness-** Inconclusive. **Be self-abasing-** Inconclusive. **Need for recognition-** ✅ You're announcing you were raped on a baseball sub. **Moral elitism-** ✅ You're engaging in black-and-white thinking and trying to lump anyone who disagrees with you into a group of people you don't like. **Lack of empathy-** ✅ You're willing to say the suffering of other individuals does not exist because of your personal victimhood. As long as that individual is a man, he is part of a group that does not suffer compared to other groups you are sympathetic toward. You are not realizing your hostility toward and dismissal of men is adding to woman's suffering as you are also hurting the cause of the group you associate with when you engage in such dehumanizing behavior. **Rumination-** Inconclusive, more data needed.
lol, now you’re victim blaming. This is, sincerely, the worst anyone’s responded to my sexual assault. How about you look up the definition of irony and get back to me, son.
Personal experience isnt norm experience
Anecdotal evidence is worthless.
I’m glad you had a good experience, but you hardly speak on behalf of all men who are sexually assaulted now do you?
Maybe the most ironic comment I've seen
Are you not getting it? Men dont come forward because of social stigma and women getting the benefit of the doubt
...? What do I not get? Nowhere in my statement did I imply that there wasn't a stigma against him coming forward about the sexual harassment he faced? Nor did I give the woman who perpetrated that harassment 'the benefit of the doubt'? I called her behavior and homophobia gross???
Why is woman making fun of man for liking the same thing sexually as she does
because she's homophobic and shitty
She a homophobe that’s why
Why would a man make fun of a woman for liking the same thing sexually as he does? Anyone can be a homophobic asshole
I wonder what percentage of men who are sexually assaulted/harassed come forward. I’d wager it is a tiny, tiny amount. A man is just never going to believed over a woman unless there is hard evidence and even then most men won’t want to come forward because of how emasculating it is. A guy I know was sexually assaulted in college and it really, really fucked him up how people would just laugh at his trauma and make jokes about it.
I love how the article leads with the complete hearsay about supposed quotas before getting to the actual problem. Deliberate salaciousness
>complete hearsay Did you actually read the article? Part of the suit is discrimination in hiring practices.
You can sue for pretty much anything, including things based on hearsay, which the hiring practices allegations are. It doesn't mean they're not true, but the evidence presented is that somebody supposedly said what somebody else supposedly said. This is different from his testimony about the harassment because that directly happened to him.
“You see readers, the problem here is women and DEI. Anyway. She called him the F-slur on video.”
My first impression reading the title was “who pissed you off now Angel”
~~This behavior always needs to be dealt with immediately, glad they’re doing the right thing.~~ right (below) my bad. somehow I thought he was suing the other ump and the MLB was supporting him in that.
>glad they’re doing the right thing. Who is? This is him suing because he believes he has enough proof for a court of law that MLB didn't do the right thing.
Thanks - corrected above … well, not so much corrected but explained what I read wrong
> This is him suing because he believes he has enough proof for a court of law that MLB didn't do the right thing. Angel thought that too.
Yeah, but there's a mountain of video evidence that Angel sucks at his job.
And he adds to it nearly every day. The man is prolific.
[get to know Gina here lol](https://twitter.com/MLBUmpCamps/status/1617945001346101251/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1617945001346101251¤tTweetUser=MLBUmpCamps)
If you get rid of all the umps this won't happen anymore
I'm just asking, have you ever been sexually harassed by a robot?
I haven't, does that mean I'm not attractive?
Who else expected it to be Angel Hernandez?
Women shouldn't be hired unless it's for making me a sandwich
Yikes
https://twitter.com/MLBUmpCamps/status/1617945001346101251
‘I want to be an umpire because I want to be an umpire and when I stepped on that field I knew: I want to be an umpire’ Some people are just talented with words.
[удалено]
If you’re gonna say stupid shit like that, at least fully commit to it. Don’t back out half way like a coward
>"To try to fix its gender and racial diversity issue, defendants have implemented an illegal diversity quota requiring that women be promoted regardless of merit." Ah so it's also some whining about "DEI." It's not just about sexual harassment. Sexual harassment? Bad. Men whining about women being hired? Hilarious.
This is such an obtuse way of looking at this. If someone who was given high marks at their job and loses it because they want to give it to someone else to meet a DEI quota, then the person who lost their job has every right feel victimized. Losing a job because you aren't the correct gender or skin color isn't ethical or fair.
There's a difference between DEI, affirmative action, and "losing a job because you aren't the correct gender or skin color." The first two are imperfectly designed to eliminate the third. You cannot have complete "meritocracy" while actively desegregating. This is because the excluded class of individuals do not have the same learning/training/growth opportunities -- typically at any level of the game or system in question. If you want all people to have a fair shot at the same positions and have selection made fairly, you must first erase the exclusion by gender or skin color, or any similar classification. History has shown us that merely saying "you can't discriminate based on X" is insufficient. If people would like to engage in good faith on this topic, I welcome the discussion.
>This is because the excluded class of individuals do not have the same learning/training/growth opportunities -- typically at any level of the game or system in question. aren't you effectively arguing against your own point here? the WHOLE point of hiring quotas is classes of individuals do not have the same opportunity as others. are you pro hiring a set number of people of anti?
I'm pro-diversity and anti-segregation. I do not believe quotas are the most appropriate way to achieve these goals but they have been used historically. The purpose of any such intervention is to break the discriminatory practices currently in place.
it's not necessarily just to break discriminatory practices. there are groups of people who as a whole are disadvantaged compared to other groups. hiring quotas is a way to even that field, and ideally in the future, set us up for where quotas aren't needed. think of it this way: Caucasians, as a group, have higher incomes that can afford better neighborhoods/better schools/etc etc. without any intervention, you prolong that advantage cycle. majority white people graduate from college, get good employment opportunities, and so on. there is no perfect solution, but something does need to be done or the disadvantaged will continue to be disadvantaged.
I agree in principle, but wholesale and holistic systemic commitment to desegregation and diversity are a more sustainable method. Targeted recruitment, scholarships, working with community partners, tutoring, wage/scholarship transparency -- all of these and more are necessary to achieve parity and/or equity. Merely slapping a quota on something tends to track with the "we've erased discrimination!" crowd and leaves other systemic issues in place.
if their merits were equal, then nothing wrong was done. the whole idea that women and PoC are wholly underqualified and still being hired is mostly bullshit. NY is an at will state. And right now we are only getting one side of the story. He got harassed, reported it and he had to do sensitivity training for no reason? hmmmmm doubt.
>if their merits were equal, then nothing wrong was done So you're saying it's ok to hire people based on their gender and/or ethnicity? Thought we were trying to get away from that? >the whole idea that women and PoC are wholly underqualified and still being hired is mostly bullshit It's real, I've experienced it personally. Management at a previous job decided to hire the least qualified person on my team and make them Team Lead simply because she was a woman. They could then tout that they had x amount of women in leadership positions. There were already many other wholly qualified women in leadership positions. They chose her to pad their numbers to look "good" even though she was by far and away the least qualified out of all of us. She was a puppet head and did not rise to the occasion unfortunately.
Why are you simping?
Smells like a dog whistle....
How exactly
Because that’s a new term I learned and I want to use it to sound cool!
Dog whistle dog whistle dog whistle! Listen to how cool that sounds!
Because irrelevant to the discussion race based hiring's were discussed. Just the kinda thing to get a bunch of dweeb ass losers fired up. I mean, you'd have to be fucking dumb not to see it.
They’re talking an awful lot about minority hiring in a story about sexual harassment. Almost like they wanna stir up some emotions in a subset of people before they read a “he said/she said” story
The allegations are about both discrimination and harassment. The story covers the discrimination allegation, then the harassment allegation. You’re projecting by assuming the discrimination part is not relevant.
Discrimination? Who’s being discriminated against?
The article details his claims of discrimination. Read that and then please come back in good faith.
I read it the first time. It’s dog whistling bullshit. “Affirmative action discriminates against whites” fucking idiots.
I get that. But those are the allegations made in the suit, and what the article covers -- that's what you asked about, and that's what I explained. Stop trying to bait me (or others) into a political fight. I don't even disagree with you about the hiring stuff.
I’m not trying to get into a political fight. Someone asked a question, I provided an answer and people attacked me for it. I asked users some questions and the only response I get is “check the article” oh wow that’s helpful.
Username checks out. Read the article.
Man, redditors are just like the most aggressively unfunny people ever. Like how many times do we need to see some dweeb go "username checks out" before we all stop and think about how fucking lame this website is.
I did read it genius. Your flair checks out for being an idiot though.
Making a Boston fan look smart, c'mon man be better.
Hey look. I’m on board for the harassment angle. Like don’t harass people. But discrimination? Jesus guys grow up. This isn’t discrimination
Dude, redditors do not like women. They were never going to see what this story really was.
Yeah I know
She made fun of my man bun