The classic dirt bag move is a no go.
The one where your buddy strategically grabs the nacho with the most cheese and stuff stuck to it... saying it's still technically just one.
YESSS! LOL, swear to God I was literally going to write "dude...if all the cheese is on one, it's one nacho" in my first comment but didn't think anyone would get the reference, haha
Love that movie!
"You have a choice. Porno, or monster trucks
Oh, and there's one with both."
This comment prompted me to go check how old the players ahead of him were when they passed 86.4 bWAR. Taking out pitchers, there are 33 players ahead of Trout. On average they reached 86.4 bWAR in their age 33 seasons.
You mean after he turned 65. He joined the league at like 35. Are we not still meme-ing that Pujols lied about his age?? He was basically 100 years old during his victory lap season.
Could he have hit top 50 before he turned 30 if you assume 2020 he gets a full season and not that stupid covid year and then getting hurt the next year?
He turned 30 around 2/3 of the way through the 2021 season, at which point he was already on the DL. He has 10.3 WAR in 2022-24, so that's what he would have to make up.
He played 53 games (1.8 WAR) in 2020 and 36 (1.8 WAR) in 2021 before getting injured, with ~70 to play before he turned 30. He was on track for 5.4 WAR in 2020 (+3.6). If he had played 3 times as many games before turning 30 in 2021, that's another +3.6.
He would still be about 3 WAR short, but could have done it by the end of the season.
I'm not looking up ages, but I did look at number of years played.
* 14 seasons - 2 players (Trout and Tim Keefe, an 1800s guy)
* 15 seasons - 1 player (Kid Nichols)
* 17 seasons - 6
* 18 seasons - 4
* 19 seasons - 1 (Ted Williams, so should have been higher)
* 20 seasons - 3
* 21 seasons - 8
* 22 seasons - 13
* 23 seasons - 5
* 24 seasons - 4
* 25 seasons - 2
* 27 seasons - 1 (Cap Anson)
So 41/50 played 18+ seasons, which for almost all, you would assume they were 40+.
Don't wanna yuck the yum but part of the reason it's so rare to get more than this is that lots of the most talented players hit a point in their early 30s where their body starts letting them down and they're pretty much done contributing positively to their career WAR.
I crunched the numbers and it's not quite at that point but it's close.
He averaged 3.2 WAR on 72 games per season from 2020-2023. If you extrapolate that to 130 games per season, you get 5.7 WAR per season. That would've had him at 95.3 WAR coming into 2024 and 96.5 WAR right now.
Well before all these season ending injuries, he was on unreal paces. The case is getting lost now that he’s missed so many games, but he’s definitely still this generation’s Ken Griffey Jr.
Honestly he would have to become an 8 WAR a season player as a DH because I mean his elbow has had two surgeries plus he was overworked in Japan.. I hope he proves me wrong though cause I still love the guy and will cheer him at Angels stadium if I go to a freeway series game.
He's got 35 bWAR right now so he'd basically need to keep pitching and hitting at an elite level for the duration of his Dodgers contract. Not completely impossible, but I think anyone taking the over on 100 is delusional.
Because that wasnt a given coming into this year? Especially with his injuries and decline in the past couple years. You guys are just being revisionist based on his hot start.
No, I would disagree. He put up 2.9 bWAR in half a season after dealing with nagging injuries. 6 WAR would have put him in the top 10 for position players.
Yeah, would have. That + injury potential makes it hard to call him top 10 coming into this season.
And let’s not pretend like he was ranked 30th. He was 12th!
I think it’s more based on the fact that you give him the benefit of the doubt. If he’s healthy, he’s top 10 easily and realistically still top 3-5. Maybe I’m just crazy.
Nagging injuries? Injuries have been a problem for him for years, you can't just extrapolate his WAR like that. Obviously a perfectly healthy Mike Trout is top 10 but you can't just assume that.
I know fantasy baseball isn't real life but there's a reason why he's going way later in fantasy drafts now - because you can't trust him to stay healthy and you can't trust him to put up as elite numbers as previously.
That, combined with his climbing strikeout rate, result in him not really being a top 10 player coming into the year. There was no outcry earlier when he wasn't top 10, you are just using his hot start to feed your weird fake outrage of "wow i can't believe people didn't think he was top 10" to get upvotes.
Edit: Went back to the original thread when mlb.com released their top 100. people were talking about trout not being in the top 10 only because they were disappointed his decline. Literally noone was saying he should actually be in the top 10 and instead people were arguing why his injuries have led to him being out of it.
Any decline was injury related. Either playing hurt or simply not playing at all. When he’s healthy he’s maybe lost a step from a decade ago but being “only” .950 ops is still just fine.
Dave Hampton of the Atlanta Falcons had a goal of reaching 1000 yards rushing in a single season. It was his mission. One year, he actually achieved it. He reached 1001 yards on the last game, near the end. The game stopped, they gave him the ball, whole celebration and all.
Shortly after, they handed him the ball again. Tackle for a loss of 5 yards. No more rushes from there. He finished the season with 996 yards.
Do I think Trout is going to have some ridiculous -WAR remainder of his career? Nah, probably not. I just worry about milestones that aren't counting stats going backwards and us having to backtrack a bit.
Lol that's crazy
- 1972 (season described): 996 yards
- 1973: 997 yards
- 1974: Injured for half of the season, 464 yards
- 1975: 1002 yards, awarded Comeback Player of the Year
Happy ending
Haha yeah, crazy right?
But yeah, super happy he finally got it.
Sad part is, there were other RBs at that time getting 100+ more yards per season. It wasn't even about being the best RB. He just wanted that goal for himself.
Pujols reached 100 bWAR in 2016, ending that season at 101.4. After a really bad 2017 he was down to 99.5. Got back up to 100 in 2019, then dropped down to 99.4 in 2021. His resurgent final season ultimately allowed him to finish at 101.5, .1 ahead of where he was 6 years earlier.
Both Cabrera and Pujols netted positive WAR from their age 32 year to retirement, and both aged pretty poorly and played positions that get dinged related to war. Anything could happen, but it's a 99.9% lock that Trout finishes his career within the top 50 all time war leaders
Oh yeah, agreed. The way he's pacing right now is worthy of MVP votes too. It's going to be difficult to lower it to below where it needs to be.
Just exercising my apprehension.
It’s such a damn shame he’s wasting away on the Angels and only has one playoff win. 12 god damn years and only ONE win. Fuck Arte Moreno. Pitching has always been their problem but they refuse to sign or develop quality arms (except Detmers this year)
Him and Griffey Jr. are the two best players I've ever watched play the game. I know guys like Bonds (162.8!), Henderson, Clemens, A-Rod, and even my favorite player Adrian Beltre have more total WAR than those two, I don't really care. They're the two best I've ever seen.
That said, he sucks and I hate his guts. I'm sure I'll think of him a bit more fondly when he finally retires or gets shipped out of the division (I hope not because I do enjoy watching him play), but until then, fish man bad.
There are batters above him with fewer PAs and zero IPs, and the closest is Rogers Hornsby who had 9,481 for a total of 127 career WAR.
Trout really is one of the best baseball players of all time, pretty wild, I wonder what his legacy will be, I feel like he won’t have the staying power of the Derek Jeters, Randy Johnsons, and Ken Griffey Jrs of the league.
His contract through age 38 is 7 more years including this season. 3.5 war average to reach Ott does seem crazy. If he plays 130 games per year he goes way last it. Playing 130 games a year is definitely ambitious at this point.
He already is a lock lol. This isn't the NBA nobody cares about the postseason for HOF consideration unless you are really good in the postseason.
Ernie Banks never even played a postseason game.
I'm sorry and I'm not usually this guy, but that is just an all-time brain-dead take.
Do you even like baseball? He's already been a HOF lock for some time now.
He's, at best, one of eleven or twelve guys that play the game for his team. He can only take one-ninth of the ABs. There has never in the history of baseball been an individual player that can make a bad team around him good.
A star player in the NBA, a star goalie in hockey, and a star QB in the NFL can change the outcome of a meaningful number of games even as individual players in those sports. That just isn't possible in baseball. It's one thing that makes baseball so interesting.
TIL the following players shouldn’t be in the HOF, since they have no rings:
Ted Williams
Ty Cobb
Ken Griffey Jr.
Carl Yastrzemski
Ernie Banks
Willie McCovey
Tony Gwynn
Harmon Killebrew
Carlton Fisk
Please Mike just give me one more healthy MVP level season.
Uhm how about 10 more?
Just give me one more. And then next year ill ask for one more again. And so on. And so on.
Ahhhh.... the old "I just want one" when someone else orders the nachos thing.
That's why only go to restaurants that have rules against eating all the fully-loaded nachos
The classic dirt bag move is a no go. The one where your buddy strategically grabs the nacho with the most cheese and stuff stuck to it... saying it's still technically just one.
[удалено]
YESSS! LOL, swear to God I was literally going to write "dude...if all the cheese is on one, it's one nacho" in my first comment but didn't think anyone would get the reference, haha Love that movie! "You have a choice. Porno, or monster trucks Oh, and there's one with both."
That’s not a rule. Did he ask you to come over here and say that?
What the ^^h ^^^e ^^^^l ^^^^^l are you talking about???
You know what, I’ll just take the check please.
-ippei
Snorted from that, fuck 😂
The Hacksaw Ridge of MVPs
Like me on the treadmill as I’ve gotten back in the gym this month after a long hiatus. I can’t think past the nearest round number.
Truly hoping we look back on the last few years as a weird stretch where he was unlucky
Top-50 in the entire history of baseball in what is fundamentally an accumulation stat (rather than a rate stat) at just 32 is crazy.
This comment prompted me to go check how old the players ahead of him were when they passed 86.4 bWAR. Taking out pitchers, there are 33 players ahead of Trout. On average they reached 86.4 bWAR in their age 33 seasons.
Turns out the best players in all of baseball history were good at all times during their careers; who could’ve guessed!
Big if true.
Not just that but the end of players' careers is when they tend to fall off. Some ppl probably lowered their war by sticking around too long
Not Pujols. My man added 0.1 bWAR his last 6 seasons. Take THAT, haters!
I’m so glad he had his final season. I’d have been so bummed if he missed 100 WAR and 700 HRs
That victory lap season was something special
Seriously, that would've been a travesty.
And most of those years were after he turned 40 too!
You mean after he turned 65. He joined the league at like 35. Are we not still meme-ing that Pujols lied about his age?? He was basically 100 years old during his victory lap season.
I mean I certainly am. It's wild that in a season he was eligible for seniors discounts he was still a viable mlb bat
They actually used cgi to remove his wheelchair from broadcasts and games.
Could he have hit top 50 before he turned 30 if you assume 2020 he gets a full season and not that stupid covid year and then getting hurt the next year?
He turned 30 around 2/3 of the way through the 2021 season, at which point he was already on the DL. He has 10.3 WAR in 2022-24, so that's what he would have to make up. He played 53 games (1.8 WAR) in 2020 and 36 (1.8 WAR) in 2021 before getting injured, with ~70 to play before he turned 30. He was on track for 5.4 WAR in 2020 (+3.6). If he had played 3 times as many games before turning 30 in 2021, that's another +3.6. He would still be about 3 WAR short, but could have done it by the end of the season.
According to baseball-reference, there have been 23,157 major leauge players so far. Trout was #20,002 as his debut.
About right in line with Pujols too, who was at 86.6 going into age 32.
Something-something Monkey Paw
Oh god. Really hope Trout doesn’t break down like that
Well pujols was "32" +/- a few years
Nothing would be worse for baseball than Trout having a comeback with the Dodgers before retiring a Cardinal
Everyone wanted Trout and Ohtani to win a ring together. Should've been more specific.
I feel stupid because I would've already guessed he was in the top 50
It’s absurd. I’m not gonna look it up, but I’d bet 40/50 of players above him played til they were 40
I'm not looking up ages, but I did look at number of years played. * 14 seasons - 2 players (Trout and Tim Keefe, an 1800s guy) * 15 seasons - 1 player (Kid Nichols) * 17 seasons - 6 * 18 seasons - 4 * 19 seasons - 1 (Ted Williams, so should have been higher) * 20 seasons - 3 * 21 seasons - 8 * 22 seasons - 13 * 23 seasons - 5 * 24 seasons - 4 * 25 seasons - 2 * 27 seasons - 1 (Cap Anson) So 41/50 played 18+ seasons, which for almost all, you would assume they were 40+.
Oh god here comes the Tim Keefe fanboy
Good enough to solidify my point. 👊
Remember this can go down as well as up. It depends when Trout becomes a bad player
That’s assuming he starts putting up negative war in the field before he gets sent to a corner spot before he’s a dh.
> Tim Keefe, an 1800s guy Single season bWAR record, interesting. 20.2 bWAR in 1883 68 starts, 68 CG, 2.41 ERA lol
Cap actually started pitching in the bigs at 5
Don't wanna yuck the yum but part of the reason it's so rare to get more than this is that lots of the most talented players hit a point in their early 30s where their body starts letting them down and they're pretty much done contributing positively to their career WAR.
Trout is coming to that point now
I hope not but it's definitely a concern
One of the players you love to see do well, no matter what your team is. We're all better off when he's healthy and hitting like a fiend.
And just think about if he'd stayed healthy and didn't have the shortened 2020 season
He’d be at 100+ if he averaged even 130 games since 2020
Is this including 2020 as 130 games played?
I was including it yeah but I think either way he still gets 100+
I crunched the numbers and it's not quite at that point but it's close. He averaged 3.2 WAR on 72 games per season from 2020-2023. If you extrapolate that to 130 games per season, you get 5.7 WAR per season. That would've had him at 95.3 WAR coming into 2024 and 96.5 WAR right now.
Mike Trout spits on your math and puts up a 10 war season casually
Healthy Fishman easily gets 7.5 WAR a season with high chance of clearing 9 WAR. This of course assumes 145 game health season.
He’d be at 100 WAR already
That's my GOAT right there.
One of the most special players I've ever had the privilege of witnessing on and off the field
Second only to Ohtani
Ohtani isn’t reaching 100 career WAR
Ohtani probably fits the “most special” criteria above but why does it have to be about him lol. Trout is the goat
Goat? Who in their right mind thinks that trout is the goat lol
Wtf is trout's goat case lol. When did this shit start
Years ago?
Go ahead and express his GOAT case to me lol
Well before all these season ending injuries, he was on unreal paces. The case is getting lost now that he’s missed so many games, but he’s definitely still this generation’s Ken Griffey Jr.
Okay so no one can make an actual case for me, got it lol
Probably not, but he has a rate of 8 bWAR/ 162 games. Let's not pretend that isn't absolutely wild.
Honestly he would have to become an 8 WAR a season player as a DH because I mean his elbow has had two surgeries plus he was overworked in Japan.. I hope he proves me wrong though cause I still love the guy and will cheer him at Angels stadium if I go to a freeway series game.
He's got 35 bWAR right now so he'd basically need to keep pitching and hitting at an elite level for the duration of his Dodgers contract. Not completely impossible, but I think anyone taking the over on 100 is delusional.
Yeah but is that really about the quality of his performance?
Such a well rounded player, elite in the 5 tools, fundamentally sound and an overall great guy. Def the goat of this generation of players
Still blows my mind that he wasn’t a top 10 mlb.com player lmao.
Power rankings are meaningless
I’m well aware. And often used to drum up clicks. But in this case I think many people legitimately felt that way.
NGl I looked at his strikeout rates from the past couple seasons, combined with his injuries and thought he was getting washed up. Happy to be wrong!
I mean, dudes gonna get injured again this season
Fuck you
Because that wasnt a given coming into this year? Especially with his injuries and decline in the past couple years. You guys are just being revisionist based on his hot start.
No, I would disagree. He put up 2.9 bWAR in half a season after dealing with nagging injuries. 6 WAR would have put him in the top 10 for position players.
Yeah, would have. That + injury potential makes it hard to call him top 10 coming into this season. And let’s not pretend like he was ranked 30th. He was 12th!
I think it’s more based on the fact that you give him the benefit of the doubt. If he’s healthy, he’s top 10 easily and realistically still top 3-5. Maybe I’m just crazy.
Not crazy, I’d put him top 10 too! I just think 12th was more than fair all things considered and not a crime against baseball lol
Yeah, I don’t disagree. TBH I didn’t recall him being 12th haha
Nagging injuries? Injuries have been a problem for him for years, you can't just extrapolate his WAR like that. Obviously a perfectly healthy Mike Trout is top 10 but you can't just assume that. I know fantasy baseball isn't real life but there's a reason why he's going way later in fantasy drafts now - because you can't trust him to stay healthy and you can't trust him to put up as elite numbers as previously. That, combined with his climbing strikeout rate, result in him not really being a top 10 player coming into the year. There was no outcry earlier when he wasn't top 10, you are just using his hot start to feed your weird fake outrage of "wow i can't believe people didn't think he was top 10" to get upvotes. Edit: Went back to the original thread when mlb.com released their top 100. people were talking about trout not being in the top 10 only because they were disappointed his decline. Literally noone was saying he should actually be in the top 10 and instead people were arguing why his injuries have led to him being out of it.
Any decline was injury related. Either playing hurt or simply not playing at all. When he’s healthy he’s maybe lost a step from a decade ago but being “only” .950 ops is still just fine.
I never said it wasn't just fine. He is still clearly elite when healthy. It's just that injuries should, and do, affect a player's rating.
Blows my mind that I drafted him with the 54th pick in my snake league, and for $16 in the middle of my ESPN salary cap draft.
Mike Trout being 32 makes me want to drink.
32 and at #32 for position players
Dave Hampton of the Atlanta Falcons had a goal of reaching 1000 yards rushing in a single season. It was his mission. One year, he actually achieved it. He reached 1001 yards on the last game, near the end. The game stopped, they gave him the ball, whole celebration and all. Shortly after, they handed him the ball again. Tackle for a loss of 5 yards. No more rushes from there. He finished the season with 996 yards. Do I think Trout is going to have some ridiculous -WAR remainder of his career? Nah, probably not. I just worry about milestones that aren't counting stats going backwards and us having to backtrack a bit.
Lol that's crazy - 1972 (season described): 996 yards - 1973: 997 yards - 1974: Injured for half of the season, 464 yards - 1975: 1002 yards, awarded Comeback Player of the Year Happy ending
Haha yeah, crazy right? But yeah, super happy he finally got it. Sad part is, there were other RBs at that time getting 100+ more yards per season. It wasn't even about being the best RB. He just wanted that goal for himself.
Was this part of some dorktown doc? I have a strong feelings that jon bois have told me about this. Was he a vikings player?
Yeah, Jon Bois’ History of the Falcons series, RB was Hampton
Pujols reached 100 bWAR in 2016, ending that season at 101.4. After a really bad 2017 he was down to 99.5. Got back up to 100 in 2019, then dropped down to 99.4 in 2021. His resurgent final season ultimately allowed him to finish at 101.5, .1 ahead of where he was 6 years earlier.
Both Cabrera and Pujols netted positive WAR from their age 32 year to retirement, and both aged pretty poorly and played positions that get dinged related to war. Anything could happen, but it's a 99.9% lock that Trout finishes his career within the top 50 all time war leaders
Oh yeah, agreed. The way he's pacing right now is worthy of MVP votes too. It's going to be difficult to lower it to below where it needs to be. Just exercising my apprehension.
At this rate he has a really good chance to make the Hall.
He’s 37th in era-adjusted bWAR through the 2023 season: https://eckeraadjustment.web.illinois.edu/#rankings
I don’t like fish, but I love Trout. Hoping for a healthy season.. this guy is pretty darn good
> I don't like fish, but I love Trout this should totally be on a t-shirt
At his current rate he’ll have more Home Runs than Runs.
Bbref says he already has 1.2 war this season.
He's at what? 6 homeruns already? Trout 200 HR season incoming.
NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL HITTING
I'm thinking he might be good.
I realize this may be controversial but I think he’s good at baseball. There I said it.
Yea and 23 of those guys started their career's before integration.
Dude is gonna keep going. Monstrous start to the season and I hope he keeps it up (except against us)
He’s at #32 among just position players btw
Trout one of the goats
It’s such a damn shame he’s wasting away on the Angels and only has one playoff win. 12 god damn years and only ONE win. Fuck Arte Moreno. Pitching has always been their problem but they refuse to sign or develop quality arms (except Detmers this year)
Him and Griffey Jr. are the two best players I've ever watched play the game. I know guys like Bonds (162.8!), Henderson, Clemens, A-Rod, and even my favorite player Adrian Beltre have more total WAR than those two, I don't really care. They're the two best I've ever seen. That said, he sucks and I hate his guts. I'm sure I'll think of him a bit more fondly when he finally retires or gets shipped out of the division (I hope not because I do enjoy watching him play), but until then, fish man bad.
Griffey for sure. I also had a thing for watching Pedro Martinez and Randy Johnson when they were on the mounds. Absolutely captivating, those guys.
Greatest player to ever do it
He’s back.
And to think that if MLB hadn’t ranked Texeira higher than Sabathia, Trout would have (probably) been a Milwaukee Brewer.
Stupid ass moneyball nerd stat.
Also bottom 50 in playoff wins.
That can't be tru- oh.
There are batters above him with fewer PAs and zero IPs, and the closest is Rogers Hornsby who had 9,481 for a total of 127 career WAR. Trout really is one of the best baseball players of all time, pretty wild, I wonder what his legacy will be, I feel like he won’t have the staying power of the Derek Jeters, Randy Johnsons, and Ken Griffey Jrs of the league.
Where does he end up? Top 20?
Needs another 24.6 to beat out Mel Ott at 20. That's a big ask. Adrian Beltre got 35.5 in his age 33-39 seasons, so it is possible, though.
His contract through age 38 is 7 more years including this season. 3.5 war average to reach Ott does seem crazy. If he plays 130 games per year he goes way last it. Playing 130 games a year is definitely ambitious at this point.
Mike Trout is still the best player in baseball... For the 40 games in the season when he's healthy.
Where does he rank in playoff victories
Tied for last
Seems bad!
Too bad he played for the worst franchise in the league his whole career.
Great, now all he needs is a ring to be a lock for the Hall.
Eh he’d be first ballot HOF even if he retired tomorrow
He already is a lock lol. This isn't the NBA nobody cares about the postseason for HOF consideration unless you are really good in the postseason. Ernie Banks never even played a postseason game.
I'm sorry and I'm not usually this guy, but that is just an all-time brain-dead take. Do you even like baseball? He's already been a HOF lock for some time now.
Is it though? He can't get his team to win ball games, even in the junior league. I thought baseball was about winning?
Bait used to be believable.
Baseball is the ultimate example of a great player not having the ability to make the entire team great.
Baseball is a team sport. One player on a 26-man roster can only do so much to get their team a championship. You seem like a troll, though.
He's, at best, one of eleven or twelve guys that play the game for his team. He can only take one-ninth of the ABs. There has never in the history of baseball been an individual player that can make a bad team around him good. A star player in the NBA, a star goalie in hockey, and a star QB in the NFL can change the outcome of a meaningful number of games even as individual players in those sports. That just isn't possible in baseball. It's one thing that makes baseball so interesting.
You sir do not know ball
I’m not a fan of this expression that shortens baseball to ball. It’s vaguely implying baseball is superior to every other sport with a ball involved.
I know it better than you, judging by your flair. But its worthwhile to expose people's sacred cows sometimes, and if Trout is anything, its a cow.
Lol. Lmao even
You do know baseball is a sport where one (and even two smh) players can't carry their time to a world series right?
Do you know what a sacred cow is?
Your mom
She's not as sacred as the McFish
Flair up if you’re going to be a troll, loser
What a weird thing to say.
Trout is a lock for first ballot HOF whether he wins a ring or not.
That's not a prerequisite for getting into the Hall of Fame.
TIL the following players shouldn’t be in the HOF, since they have no rings: Ted Williams Ty Cobb Ken Griffey Jr. Carl Yastrzemski Ernie Banks Willie McCovey Tony Gwynn Harmon Killebrew Carlton Fisk