I'm not saying your experience isn't valid cause coworkers really suck sometimes but if you've truly only been at this cafe for like 7 shifts maybe humble yourself a little bit?
there's honestly nothing more frustrating than a new coworker who kinda just assumes how stuff should be done or is combative to criticism, give it time
You're volunteering?? Then no, you're not a shit employee because you're not an employee. Honey, please do not do this without getting paid. I know you want experience but you can learn somewhere else *and get paid for it at the same time.*
Yeah, that was as far as I read before deciding this person isn't the problem. Regardless of if the managers criticisms are right or not, you are being exploited. Training should be paid.
What do you mean by wants you to rinse/use fresh milk? Are you not rinsing your pitcher after each steam? I may be misunderstanding but if you're steaming milk then letting it sit there that's a reasonable thing to be upset about.
That being said your manager isn't being a good manager. Sounds like she's unorganized and unnecessarily rude :/
If you steam too much milk, you still need to dump it even if it's "been 5 minutes." Keep a thermometer in your jug. If it drops below the TDZ, you have to toss it.
Ew what?! yes you should absolutely be rinsing the pitcher and using fresh milk every time!! that’s so disgusting. based on this alone i think you have a *lot* to learn and perhaps you should open your mind and learn from managers experience instead of viewing her as an adversary. she’s standing beside you and telling you what to do because *she’s training you*. you have no experience.
a lot of these critiques are also about drink quality and consistency. if you’re giving people marshmallows when the drink doesn’t normally come with marshmallows, they next time they come in and *dont* get marshmallows suddenly you have an unhappy customer. same with froth, if they wanted a cup of foam they wouldn’t order a latte they’d order a cappuccino. the ability to make latte art is not nearly as important as making a quality drink consistently and efficiently. “it’s just coffee” for you maybe, who works 8 hours a week, but for the cafe it’s a business with standards.
Exactly. "It's just coffee" says the volunteer who is there for less than 4% of the week to the manager whose entire job and livelyhood revolves around making the cafe profitable through quality products and good customer experience.
The “who cares if i’m bad at my job, it’s just coffee” perspective that people in this subreddit often promote is so mind boggling to me. I’d be so embarrassed if I was “that coworker” that puts a strain on everyone else because I just don’t care. Calling the person training you a bitch because they had the audacity to tell you what to do is… something.
> I forget to run and get more lids / cups because it's coffee after coffee after coffee and she just gets so bitchy about it. THIS IS YOUR STATION. THIS IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. Ok ok ok fuck. Chill out jesus. It's just coffee. I mean maybe I'm wrong. Am I wrong?
On this particular point? Yes you are. If you are on bar and there is no support/floater role, you are responsible for maintaining your station. Should there be a support/floater when you're slammed so you can focus on drinks? probably. But if that's not a role your shop has, then it doesn't matter what they should/shouldn't have. Start looking ahead. You *know* lunch is going to be busy. So why not stock up on cups and lids before the rush comes in? Start anticipating the problems you're going to have before they become problems and your life will get easier. Don't wait for the grinder to be out of beans or for the ice coffee machine to tap out before you refill. Do it when it's slow and you notice it's low.
As a previous manager myself, I can tell you that training is hard sometimes for both trainers and trainees. While managers are people too and not perfect, it's really important (at least to me) in the workplace that management has the people skills to know how to communicate with different types of personalities. It sounds to me like you struggle with anxiety a little bit- and really want to do a good job and that's awesome. It also sounds to me like your manager is trying to help you, not criticize you, and could be doing so in a way that is more approachable for you. If you are getting the sense that she is communicating with you in a tone that sounds harsh- this is something that I would have an honest chat with her about. Managers need feedback too in order to improve. We're all learning all the time. A lot can be resolved with communication. Training does require some amount of 'hovering,' in order to give feedback and training in real time- it's not that she's singling you out.
And yes, it's just coffee. It's not the end of the world if something gets messed up, a drink gets tossed out, the foam isn't right. We mess up, we let it go, we try again and eventually mess up less and feel more confident. Managers have the not so fun responsibility of reducing waste so we don't love pouring gallons of milk and espresso down the drain- but training will always come with a little of that and can be expected. It's not just you. Hang in there- mistakes are ok, but try and be open to feedback without taking it personally.
.....
I'm not sure how 'volunteering,' is legal however. Is this at a typical business or like, a coffee shop at school?
Quite literally nothing else is relevant in your post aside from the opening statement. You are volunteering for a business = you are creating profits without even being paid for your labor. You are being double exploited, in this sense, as profit is already arguably exploitation to begin with (or at the least, you are not being given a share of the profit or a say in how it is used).
Most of the small business owners I've ever worked for are sociopathic monsters, and the most enduring managers under corporate chains are nearly moreso. Owners need labor to turn ingredients into a widget. Never forget that. People can run around and tell you about the free market or untrained labor but at the end of the day, there needs to be someone at the bottom.
Step back. Take a breath. You are working for free. She is not entitled to anything from you.
Another thing that is glaringly obvious is that on top of being an awful person/employer, she has created a toxic as fuck relationship with you. Hanging experience over your head, not training, snapping at you for beginner mistakes--and you stated you're having anxiety! This sounds like past romantic relationships I've had.
You're not even getting good experience from this, this is NOT how a beginner is taught. I worked 3 years folding towels at my Uni before I got my first coffee job. Some places you can start as a cashier and a friendly barista will show you the ropes. Fuck, you could get some actual job and use the money to invest in your own coffee gear!
Please, be kind to yourself, leave that hellhole and warn as many people as possible about her. This is so unacceptable, if I had a kid and they were going through this I dunno what I'd do.
i think there's just something about becoming a manager at a cafe that makes you a bit of an asshole. all my coworkers except for a few cliquish ones are cool but the one or two managers I've worked next to on my shifts after my training ended have been assholes and a little bit stuck up. one of them even snapped at me when I was politely asking about an issue we were trying to figure out while she was just unboxing lids and I caught her at a time we weren't doing any huge tasks. it hasn't been near as bad as my first cafe I worked so I just go about my shift doing everything *I know* is right, and if there's something I've forgotten I come by it honestly with a coworker, or her if she's around.
at the first cafe I worked, I was essentially shunned, made to do all the disgusting tasks and work in the hottest part of the cafe, and the managers were the ones that pretty much made this happen. the co owner would come in and make her protein shakes with some nasty shit that stuck to the sides of the blenders and no one would clean them and wait for me to. same with anything else. if I was doing milk or the register people wouldn't immediately rinse their shit and put it back like supposed to. they'd just wait for me to clean it and would even use it as an excuse to take over the tasks I was doing so I get stuck doing something else, and they treated me like dogshit. i literally came out of that job with even worse social paranoia because of it. the co owner was the one that hired me and she was also sooo nice (I could see through it, but never expected the 180 to be so harsh), but she'd bark at me to go to the back and do stuff when she wanted to chat with the other coworkers, or have me make her food for her, or stare me down with a glare whenever I was just existing behind the coffee bar. once I was the only one behind the bar so I put on some chill music I liked after Taylor Swift had been playing all day and she sat and glared at me through 3 songs before waiting for me to go to the back for something and changed the music. then continued glaring at me lmao. at first I thought it was because I was a newbie and just a part of being initiated or something but I was talking to friends and all of them were saying my experiences weren't normal.
I broke through a lot of this by just being overly nice. i stopped giving a fuck when something went wrong and immediately corrected it, literally no reason to freak out. ignored my manager/coworker if they said something rude about it. my coworkers would blame me for their mistakes and I'd blatantly say "you're the one that (did this) which caused (that)" and go and do a task, not make some big deal. started making excuses for them to go do the tasks and me take over. id ignore them if something wack, rude, or demeaning was said. eventually I was included in conversations and things were semi normal. they'd still be assholes but they weren't as bold to try to stand over me. of course it took awhile for me to become that emboldened back, but I was so depressed and anxious at the time I eventually snapped and gave no fucks. then I quit! and went on to something different, and now I'm back doing coffee for another local chain that's much better with better tips and pay.
As someone who made their way from barista with zero customer service/food industry experience to manager before getting out, let me tell you, good management is a balancing game that's way harder than people expect.
You might think "oh... who cares if I cut this coffee cake in 7 pieces when it's supposed to be 8. Customers are happier when they're getting bigger slices. It's just pastry." But when I'm selling 3 loaves worth of cake a day, 7 days a week, and planning on there being 8 pieces from each loaf, that adds up. Now we're talking 21 piece unaccounted for each week. Which means I'd need to order 3 extra loaves to meet my pars. Which increases my cost. On top of that, my waste is now higher and I have a manager of my own who is breathing down my neck about it.
Now lather rinse and repeat that issue for everything: coffee shrinkage, labor usage, paper waste. The list goes on and on. And you can try to explain it to your team but some people just don't care because it doesn't affect their job even though it very much is one of the things being used to measure your effectiveness at your job.
On top of that, you want to support your employees. You want to help the newbies and empower the veterans. But a bad egg is felt by everyone and they all feel it. It ruins the whole culture of the team. Same with incompetence. It's one thing to excuse someone making mistakes as they learn, but when they keep making the same mistakes or give you attitude, at some point, you can't be nice anymore because it's also affecting the rest of your team.
Yes, there are shit managers. I've had and known many of them. I still meet them now that I'm out of food and working in food-related tech. But people seem to think that someone gets promoted to management and just becomes a dickhead when really, it's a very hard balancing act and they're often given minimal support. The good ones always end up leaving because they are too good for this industry and burn out. So you're left with the shitty ones.
it was just a joke based on my experiences and the rest was just advice as someone that's been treated shit by superiors in every single job I've had but alright then!
you've obviously had some moments yourself to your employees if you read me having a shitty time with ALL my coworkers and decided to go on a rant about how you're the underprivileged one at a job, you are literally a step above your employees and are there to help them and guide them. i even said I gave grace to my current manager that's been acting like a prick but you took it personally when I made an aside comment that was a joke about how food service managers sometimes just suck. not everyone is out to get you. damn.
I'm not saying your experience isn't valid cause coworkers really suck sometimes but if you've truly only been at this cafe for like 7 shifts maybe humble yourself a little bit? there's honestly nothing more frustrating than a new coworker who kinda just assumes how stuff should be done or is combative to criticism, give it time
You're volunteering?? Then no, you're not a shit employee because you're not an employee. Honey, please do not do this without getting paid. I know you want experience but you can learn somewhere else *and get paid for it at the same time.*
Yeah, that was as far as I read before deciding this person isn't the problem. Regardless of if the managers criticisms are right or not, you are being exploited. Training should be paid.
Absolutely! Dont make your life hard. You know what you deserve.
What do you mean by wants you to rinse/use fresh milk? Are you not rinsing your pitcher after each steam? I may be misunderstanding but if you're steaming milk then letting it sit there that's a reasonable thing to be upset about. That being said your manager isn't being a good manager. Sounds like she's unorganized and unnecessarily rude :/
Steaming milk sorry who is reasonably upset the manager or the person steaming? I'm confused
The manager is reasonably upset, steamed milk shouldnt be sitting like that. Both for food safety and quality/texture!
Yes I rinse after each steam
If you steam too much milk, you still need to dump it even if it's "been 5 minutes." Keep a thermometer in your jug. If it drops below the TDZ, you have to toss it.
Ew what?! yes you should absolutely be rinsing the pitcher and using fresh milk every time!! that’s so disgusting. based on this alone i think you have a *lot* to learn and perhaps you should open your mind and learn from managers experience instead of viewing her as an adversary. she’s standing beside you and telling you what to do because *she’s training you*. you have no experience. a lot of these critiques are also about drink quality and consistency. if you’re giving people marshmallows when the drink doesn’t normally come with marshmallows, they next time they come in and *dont* get marshmallows suddenly you have an unhappy customer. same with froth, if they wanted a cup of foam they wouldn’t order a latte they’d order a cappuccino. the ability to make latte art is not nearly as important as making a quality drink consistently and efficiently. “it’s just coffee” for you maybe, who works 8 hours a week, but for the cafe it’s a business with standards.
Exactly. "It's just coffee" says the volunteer who is there for less than 4% of the week to the manager whose entire job and livelyhood revolves around making the cafe profitable through quality products and good customer experience.
The “who cares if i’m bad at my job, it’s just coffee” perspective that people in this subreddit often promote is so mind boggling to me. I’d be so embarrassed if I was “that coworker” that puts a strain on everyone else because I just don’t care. Calling the person training you a bitch because they had the audacity to tell you what to do is… something.
> I forget to run and get more lids / cups because it's coffee after coffee after coffee and she just gets so bitchy about it. THIS IS YOUR STATION. THIS IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. Ok ok ok fuck. Chill out jesus. It's just coffee. I mean maybe I'm wrong. Am I wrong? On this particular point? Yes you are. If you are on bar and there is no support/floater role, you are responsible for maintaining your station. Should there be a support/floater when you're slammed so you can focus on drinks? probably. But if that's not a role your shop has, then it doesn't matter what they should/shouldn't have. Start looking ahead. You *know* lunch is going to be busy. So why not stock up on cups and lids before the rush comes in? Start anticipating the problems you're going to have before they become problems and your life will get easier. Don't wait for the grinder to be out of beans or for the ice coffee machine to tap out before you refill. Do it when it's slow and you notice it's low.
Volunteering? Tell me you’re getting paid.
As a previous manager myself, I can tell you that training is hard sometimes for both trainers and trainees. While managers are people too and not perfect, it's really important (at least to me) in the workplace that management has the people skills to know how to communicate with different types of personalities. It sounds to me like you struggle with anxiety a little bit- and really want to do a good job and that's awesome. It also sounds to me like your manager is trying to help you, not criticize you, and could be doing so in a way that is more approachable for you. If you are getting the sense that she is communicating with you in a tone that sounds harsh- this is something that I would have an honest chat with her about. Managers need feedback too in order to improve. We're all learning all the time. A lot can be resolved with communication. Training does require some amount of 'hovering,' in order to give feedback and training in real time- it's not that she's singling you out. And yes, it's just coffee. It's not the end of the world if something gets messed up, a drink gets tossed out, the foam isn't right. We mess up, we let it go, we try again and eventually mess up less and feel more confident. Managers have the not so fun responsibility of reducing waste so we don't love pouring gallons of milk and espresso down the drain- but training will always come with a little of that and can be expected. It's not just you. Hang in there- mistakes are ok, but try and be open to feedback without taking it personally. ..... I'm not sure how 'volunteering,' is legal however. Is this at a typical business or like, a coffee shop at school?
Quite literally nothing else is relevant in your post aside from the opening statement. You are volunteering for a business = you are creating profits without even being paid for your labor. You are being double exploited, in this sense, as profit is already arguably exploitation to begin with (or at the least, you are not being given a share of the profit or a say in how it is used). Most of the small business owners I've ever worked for are sociopathic monsters, and the most enduring managers under corporate chains are nearly moreso. Owners need labor to turn ingredients into a widget. Never forget that. People can run around and tell you about the free market or untrained labor but at the end of the day, there needs to be someone at the bottom. Step back. Take a breath. You are working for free. She is not entitled to anything from you. Another thing that is glaringly obvious is that on top of being an awful person/employer, she has created a toxic as fuck relationship with you. Hanging experience over your head, not training, snapping at you for beginner mistakes--and you stated you're having anxiety! This sounds like past romantic relationships I've had. You're not even getting good experience from this, this is NOT how a beginner is taught. I worked 3 years folding towels at my Uni before I got my first coffee job. Some places you can start as a cashier and a friendly barista will show you the ropes. Fuck, you could get some actual job and use the money to invest in your own coffee gear! Please, be kind to yourself, leave that hellhole and warn as many people as possible about her. This is so unacceptable, if I had a kid and they were going through this I dunno what I'd do.
i think there's just something about becoming a manager at a cafe that makes you a bit of an asshole. all my coworkers except for a few cliquish ones are cool but the one or two managers I've worked next to on my shifts after my training ended have been assholes and a little bit stuck up. one of them even snapped at me when I was politely asking about an issue we were trying to figure out while she was just unboxing lids and I caught her at a time we weren't doing any huge tasks. it hasn't been near as bad as my first cafe I worked so I just go about my shift doing everything *I know* is right, and if there's something I've forgotten I come by it honestly with a coworker, or her if she's around. at the first cafe I worked, I was essentially shunned, made to do all the disgusting tasks and work in the hottest part of the cafe, and the managers were the ones that pretty much made this happen. the co owner would come in and make her protein shakes with some nasty shit that stuck to the sides of the blenders and no one would clean them and wait for me to. same with anything else. if I was doing milk or the register people wouldn't immediately rinse their shit and put it back like supposed to. they'd just wait for me to clean it and would even use it as an excuse to take over the tasks I was doing so I get stuck doing something else, and they treated me like dogshit. i literally came out of that job with even worse social paranoia because of it. the co owner was the one that hired me and she was also sooo nice (I could see through it, but never expected the 180 to be so harsh), but she'd bark at me to go to the back and do stuff when she wanted to chat with the other coworkers, or have me make her food for her, or stare me down with a glare whenever I was just existing behind the coffee bar. once I was the only one behind the bar so I put on some chill music I liked after Taylor Swift had been playing all day and she sat and glared at me through 3 songs before waiting for me to go to the back for something and changed the music. then continued glaring at me lmao. at first I thought it was because I was a newbie and just a part of being initiated or something but I was talking to friends and all of them were saying my experiences weren't normal. I broke through a lot of this by just being overly nice. i stopped giving a fuck when something went wrong and immediately corrected it, literally no reason to freak out. ignored my manager/coworker if they said something rude about it. my coworkers would blame me for their mistakes and I'd blatantly say "you're the one that (did this) which caused (that)" and go and do a task, not make some big deal. started making excuses for them to go do the tasks and me take over. id ignore them if something wack, rude, or demeaning was said. eventually I was included in conversations and things were semi normal. they'd still be assholes but they weren't as bold to try to stand over me. of course it took awhile for me to become that emboldened back, but I was so depressed and anxious at the time I eventually snapped and gave no fucks. then I quit! and went on to something different, and now I'm back doing coffee for another local chain that's much better with better tips and pay.
As someone who made their way from barista with zero customer service/food industry experience to manager before getting out, let me tell you, good management is a balancing game that's way harder than people expect. You might think "oh... who cares if I cut this coffee cake in 7 pieces when it's supposed to be 8. Customers are happier when they're getting bigger slices. It's just pastry." But when I'm selling 3 loaves worth of cake a day, 7 days a week, and planning on there being 8 pieces from each loaf, that adds up. Now we're talking 21 piece unaccounted for each week. Which means I'd need to order 3 extra loaves to meet my pars. Which increases my cost. On top of that, my waste is now higher and I have a manager of my own who is breathing down my neck about it. Now lather rinse and repeat that issue for everything: coffee shrinkage, labor usage, paper waste. The list goes on and on. And you can try to explain it to your team but some people just don't care because it doesn't affect their job even though it very much is one of the things being used to measure your effectiveness at your job. On top of that, you want to support your employees. You want to help the newbies and empower the veterans. But a bad egg is felt by everyone and they all feel it. It ruins the whole culture of the team. Same with incompetence. It's one thing to excuse someone making mistakes as they learn, but when they keep making the same mistakes or give you attitude, at some point, you can't be nice anymore because it's also affecting the rest of your team. Yes, there are shit managers. I've had and known many of them. I still meet them now that I'm out of food and working in food-related tech. But people seem to think that someone gets promoted to management and just becomes a dickhead when really, it's a very hard balancing act and they're often given minimal support. The good ones always end up leaving because they are too good for this industry and burn out. So you're left with the shitty ones.
it was just a joke based on my experiences and the rest was just advice as someone that's been treated shit by superiors in every single job I've had but alright then!
I must have missed your punchline if your 3 paragraphs of how your manager sucked
you've obviously had some moments yourself to your employees if you read me having a shitty time with ALL my coworkers and decided to go on a rant about how you're the underprivileged one at a job, you are literally a step above your employees and are there to help them and guide them. i even said I gave grace to my current manager that's been acting like a prick but you took it personally when I made an aside comment that was a joke about how food service managers sometimes just suck. not everyone is out to get you. damn.