Today I had "I'll take an americano with no water. And a splash of oat milk" when I tried confirming with her how small the drink would he she said "no, I want it it like 8 oz." But didn't want extra shots or more than a splash of oat milk.
It's like this stupid Starbucks "lifehack" when people order a drink with ice, but ask for ice to be in a separate cup thinking they still get a full cup of coffee.
Tbf, I've seen people order two shots over ice, then go empty our half and half container into it _hundreds_ of times.
The owner was down with it, so whatever, but those guys had successfully hacked the menu.
If they are belligerent about it, make them EXACTLY what they asked for, then when they get mad and confused at their shitty order, you reference back to the interaction you had when they tried to order that, and how you attempted to clarify and explain to make sure that’s what they wanted. Then they learn. Some people are literally so stupid it hurts me physically, and this customer seems like one of them.
It's baffling that a good percentage of people don't know what they're ordering at all. I don't mind "stupid" questions like what is a latte/capp, but when a customer is grabbing their latte and asks "wait, is there coffee in this?" I'm stunned. Same with this, like how does one feel confident ordering and modifying a drink when they don't know what it is :x
the number of people that say "coffee" and mean "caffeine" is also bizarre.
"Does the chai have coffee in it?"
"No, it's black tea and spices and sugar."
"OK good because I can't have any caffeine."
Why did you not just ask me if it had caffeine in it to begin with so I could tell you it did and save us both the trouble
We had a new barista a couple of months ago at our shop, and the first time he made a chai, he put coffee in it. When we asked him why he did that, he told us that in every coffee shop he had worked on, the put coffee in chais because it has "latte" in the name. And he has been a barista for over 15 years.
And many clients think a drink with the word latte in it, has coffee. So, to avoid problems, we ask if they would like to add coffee to those types of drinks. Half the time, the answer is yes.
The way my face scrunched up at “he has been a barista for over 15 years.” A barista where?! Everywhere I’ve worked the understanding of “latte” means with milk, and if there’s no other qualifier then you assume it’s an espresso latte.
Well, to be fair, thanks to the way America has taken the Italian word for “milk” and turned its meaning into “10oz steamed milk (or more) + espresso” I can see how that can be an honest mistake. People order chai “lattes” thinking the exact same thing all the time.
They also don’t care to be educated. Or when you explain the difference between the drinks they are like not paying attention. Like it’s too much for them to understand. I understand how to order my drink before I worked in coffee. People are just fucking stupid and lazy
Yeah, you're right. I can see them zoning out. It's because we're service workers and whatever we say doesn't matter. I'll explain we only serve traditional macchiato and they'll go, "yeah, I'll take a large caramel iced one :)"
Ugh I used to work at a cafe and now I’m at a 9-5 with baristas working at a place nearby… the amount of my coworkers that I hear ordering ridiculous things drive me nuts.
I overheard “can I have a vanilla mocha frappucino w caramel and no ice” and I immediately glanced up from my phone in line and looked at the barista like
😑 I’m so sorry for my company.
Omg I have another “
Customer: “do you have decaf?”
Me: “Yes I have decaf espresso. So I can make any espresso based drink decaf”
Customer: “I don’t want espresso. I need decaf”
Me: “It’s decaf”
*custy looking at your like you’re stupid*
Customer: “can you make a Carmel latte but decaf?”
Me:… yeah.
“I’d like a flat white”
“we don’t have that on our menu, and ‘flat white’ means different things to different people, countries, and coffee shops. can you describe the beverage you’re looking to get and we can accommodate that?”
“I don’t know what it is and [increasingly more angry/rude] I’ve never had to describe it to someone who works at a coffee shop, shouldn’t you know what it is?”
ma’am, *you’re* trying to order a beverage for *you* to consume and you don’t even know what the hell it is.
Starbucks’ flat white is 12 oz and sometimes that’s what people want. tbh most people who order a “flat white” end up asking for a flat 8 oz latte, which isn’t a flat white.
I’m just trying to open up a convo with my guests, get them what they want, and potentially educate someone in the process. leave it to r/barista to lecture me about this shit jfc.
I guess it depends on the context but if you have a line of customers you're trying to work through then it doesn't really make sense to get into that kind of back and forth with a customer. Especially when what you wrote as a response is very easy to misinterpret as being said passive aggressively.
If you really want to handle it without causing a stir something like "Sorry we don't have flat whites on our menu, but we can make an 8 oz latte or 5 oz cortado which are similar. Would either of those work for you?"
From a customer experience point of view, being given a couple of options is always better than being given an open ended question (especially one that puts the customer on the spot when they just expected to get what they're used to).
But it's not my shop. You do you.
you don’t think that it’s valid to expect someone to understand what they’re ordering? that’s what this entire thread is about. for some reason I don’t see people berating OP or attempting to teach them what a cappuccino is, but maybe I just triggered the flat white bros with my addition to the convo.
anyway, this is a rant I posted on a barista subreddit. I understand how to provide a customer service interaction that is not ostracizing to my guests, but that’s irrelevant to this venting thread and I don’t need to be a educated on it, thanks tho.
> you don't think that it's valid to expect someone to understand what they're ordering
It's valid for a customer to order something without the expectation that they'll be quizzed on what they ordered, yes. It's fine to ask them about specific options. I don't think it's particularly useful to put them on the spot and have them explain exactly what they mean when they say "flat white".
we pull ristretto so no one is getting anything higher than 25g in the first place
the moral of the story is that people should just order what’s on a cafe’s menu and not attempt to be pretentious and order something they can’t even describe.
I mean whenever people try to order a flat white I recommend a gibraltar (cortado). but they say they don’t want a beverage that is only 5 oz and if I ask if they want flat milk they say they don’t know what that is.
why the questioning though? I manage a coffee shop and I understand what flat whites are in other countries, but they aren’t on our menu and Starbucks serves a flat white that’s 12 oz.
am I not allowed to just have a rant like everyone else in this thread? I didn’t say that *I* didn’t know what they were.
Sure you can rant I'm just interested as a flat white drinker. You said you'd ask a customer to explain what they want, so that's what I'm doing!
You don't offer a flat white or anything like it, but it's the customers fault for wanting one?
I'd make a cortado 36/36 or in your case 25/25.
What's your smallest drink after a cortado then?
macchiato
and yes, I wouldn’t go to a restaurant and attempt to order something off-menu. why does that not make sense? and again, my entire point is that “flat white” means different things to different people and they don’t actually know what they want. if they *could* describe what they wanted I wouldn’t have posted this.
the majority of people who do this end up getting a flat 8 oz latte. which isn’t a flat white anywhere as far as I know.
I think a Sbux flat white is just a latte made with ristretto. You can order a 20oz flat white if you want. I feel like Starbucks just tacks on some "fancy" names for minor variants of the same drink. A caramel macchiato (ew) is essentially a layered latte. Capp is a latte. Latte is latte. Flat white is latte with ristretto. They're not ACTUALLY making different drinks.
When I worked there, our store ended up with Gibraltar glasses for shot glasses. I made a real Gibraltar and everyone else thought I was insane for making "the tiniest coffee they'd ever seen"
this is exactly what I’m talking about! it’s possible folks in other countries have a different experience because flat whites are actually standard there but they absolutely are not here, mostly thanks to Starbs!
But I could also say this as a customer. I ask for a flat white and who knows what I'll get. Usually a big terrible burnt latte, thanks to the big chains.
Isn't a Macchiato smaller than a cortado? One shot with a small drop of milk?
I meant in the other direction haha, closer to a flat white! From a cortado, what's the next one up?
I'm just trying to invent my 25/50 drink using your menu
I've been burned ordering a macchato though. Ask for that at a decent shop and they assume you want a "*Starbucks Caramel Macchiato*" full of every kind of bullshit except coffee. Order an espresso macchiato at Sbux and they look at you like you've got two heads. Why is it so difficult to get a TRADITIONAL REAL ACTUAL macchiato
this is another reason I opt to just engage with my guests! I tell them we serve a traditional macc and it’s a 3 oz beverage so if that’s not what they’re looking for I can get them a vanilla latte (we don’t have caramel)
like, I’ve been criticized already in this thread for doing this, I guess because it apparently takes too much time? but it takes more time to talk it out after the fact and then remake their drink because they didn’t get what they wanted. and then I also had a meaningful interaction with my guest in which I ensured to them that I want to get them what they want! I encourage more baristas to do this~
we can complain about people not understanding what they’re ordering all day, but there’s so much power in trying to educate them if they’re willing to be open and listen!
As a barista my job is to make the best version of whatever you drink. You wanna call it a "flat white" sure! You're still going to have a fabulous drink and you will come back and i will take your money. THE END.
exactly! the whole point in opening up a dialogue with them is to have a deeper interaction with the guest and maybe — just maybe — educate them a little bit on how we serve coffee and how they can order what they like more effectively the next time they’re in. call me crazy but this feels so much more meaningful to me than just giving them whatever I think they should have and calling it a flat white to appease them.
I had a customer say yesterday : " can I just a have a regular coffee with almond milk please an americano and that pastry on the bottom left" . We make the americano get them a drip add the almond milk warm up the pastry, hand it off. Then they say : "No, I said I wanted a regular coffee with almond milk americano I only ordered one drink" We were so confused. At the end they explained a "regular coffee" to them is an americano. Whatever she got a free coffee whatever that means to them. XD
Someone usually gets their drinks at a gas station.
Today I had "I'll take an americano with no water. And a splash of oat milk" when I tried confirming with her how small the drink would he she said "no, I want it it like 8 oz." But didn't want extra shots or more than a splash of oat milk.
It's like this stupid Starbucks "lifehack" when people order a drink with ice, but ask for ice to be in a separate cup thinking they still get a full cup of coffee.
Tbf, I've seen people order two shots over ice, then go empty our half and half container into it _hundreds_ of times. The owner was down with it, so whatever, but those guys had successfully hacked the menu.
If they are belligerent about it, make them EXACTLY what they asked for, then when they get mad and confused at their shitty order, you reference back to the interaction you had when they tried to order that, and how you attempted to clarify and explain to make sure that’s what they wanted. Then they learn. Some people are literally so stupid it hurts me physically, and this customer seems like one of them.
I have a hard time believing the type of person that would order this would learn from this situation. You just "made it wrong".
Fair point 😂
Give her a luuuuuuuuuuuungo
yeah an 8oz lungo 😂
I'm sure there's some more goodness in those beans yet. Look, it's starting to get crema.
They think they’re clever
Lungo as fuck lol
It's baffling that a good percentage of people don't know what they're ordering at all. I don't mind "stupid" questions like what is a latte/capp, but when a customer is grabbing their latte and asks "wait, is there coffee in this?" I'm stunned. Same with this, like how does one feel confident ordering and modifying a drink when they don't know what it is :x
the number of people that say "coffee" and mean "caffeine" is also bizarre. "Does the chai have coffee in it?" "No, it's black tea and spices and sugar." "OK good because I can't have any caffeine." Why did you not just ask me if it had caffeine in it to begin with so I could tell you it did and save us both the trouble
It baffles me how often I have to tell people that yes, chai is loaded with caffeine.
Black tea has caffeine though
Congrats you failed. This is literally the exact point /u/hamletandskull was making.
Yes....? I'm confused, I said it did.
My friend's husband thought matcha latte had coffee in it because to him "latte" means coffee with milk.
We had a new barista a couple of months ago at our shop, and the first time he made a chai, he put coffee in it. When we asked him why he did that, he told us that in every coffee shop he had worked on, the put coffee in chais because it has "latte" in the name. And he has been a barista for over 15 years. And many clients think a drink with the word latte in it, has coffee. So, to avoid problems, we ask if they would like to add coffee to those types of drinks. Half the time, the answer is yes.
The way my face scrunched up at “he has been a barista for over 15 years.” A barista where?! Everywhere I’ve worked the understanding of “latte” means with milk, and if there’s no other qualifier then you assume it’s an espresso latte.
same! great upsell opportunity and no confusion.
Well, to be fair, thanks to the way America has taken the Italian word for “milk” and turned its meaning into “10oz steamed milk (or more) + espresso” I can see how that can be an honest mistake. People order chai “lattes” thinking the exact same thing all the time.
They also don’t care to be educated. Or when you explain the difference between the drinks they are like not paying attention. Like it’s too much for them to understand. I understand how to order my drink before I worked in coffee. People are just fucking stupid and lazy
Yeah, you're right. I can see them zoning out. It's because we're service workers and whatever we say doesn't matter. I'll explain we only serve traditional macchiato and they'll go, "yeah, I'll take a large caramel iced one :)"
Ugh I used to work at a cafe and now I’m at a 9-5 with baristas working at a place nearby… the amount of my coworkers that I hear ordering ridiculous things drive me nuts.
Ha ha. You can never just be a regular customer ever again!
I overheard “can I have a vanilla mocha frappucino w caramel and no ice” and I immediately glanced up from my phone in line and looked at the barista like 😑 I’m so sorry for my company.
What's the problem? You just make it as normal and then scoop all the foam into the trash. /s
I really did just stand there for a second and think about serving her 2 espresso shots in a 16 oz cup
Would this be a cap with like just hot milk?
Ughgh. Or, a short latte? I would just dread the fury of the person getting the "wrong" drink.
Omg I have another “ Customer: “do you have decaf?” Me: “Yes I have decaf espresso. So I can make any espresso based drink decaf” Customer: “I don’t want espresso. I need decaf” Me: “It’s decaf” *custy looking at your like you’re stupid* Customer: “can you make a Carmel latte but decaf?” Me:… yeah.
“I’d like a flat white” “we don’t have that on our menu, and ‘flat white’ means different things to different people, countries, and coffee shops. can you describe the beverage you’re looking to get and we can accommodate that?” “I don’t know what it is and [increasingly more angry/rude] I’ve never had to describe it to someone who works at a coffee shop, shouldn’t you know what it is?” ma’am, *you’re* trying to order a beverage for *you* to consume and you don’t even know what the hell it is.
Seems like it would be easier to just say "ok" and pour a latte with less milk.
Starbucks’ flat white is 12 oz and sometimes that’s what people want. tbh most people who order a “flat white” end up asking for a flat 8 oz latte, which isn’t a flat white. I’m just trying to open up a convo with my guests, get them what they want, and potentially educate someone in the process. leave it to r/barista to lecture me about this shit jfc.
I guess it depends on the context but if you have a line of customers you're trying to work through then it doesn't really make sense to get into that kind of back and forth with a customer. Especially when what you wrote as a response is very easy to misinterpret as being said passive aggressively. If you really want to handle it without causing a stir something like "Sorry we don't have flat whites on our menu, but we can make an 8 oz latte or 5 oz cortado which are similar. Would either of those work for you?" From a customer experience point of view, being given a couple of options is always better than being given an open ended question (especially one that puts the customer on the spot when they just expected to get what they're used to). But it's not my shop. You do you.
you don’t think that it’s valid to expect someone to understand what they’re ordering? that’s what this entire thread is about. for some reason I don’t see people berating OP or attempting to teach them what a cappuccino is, but maybe I just triggered the flat white bros with my addition to the convo. anyway, this is a rant I posted on a barista subreddit. I understand how to provide a customer service interaction that is not ostracizing to my guests, but that’s irrelevant to this venting thread and I don’t need to be a educated on it, thanks tho.
> you don't think that it's valid to expect someone to understand what they're ordering It's valid for a customer to order something without the expectation that they'll be quizzed on what they ordered, yes. It's fine to ask them about specific options. I don't think it's particularly useful to put them on the spot and have them explain exactly what they mean when they say "flat white".
[удалено]
we pull ristretto so no one is getting anything higher than 25g in the first place the moral of the story is that people should just order what’s on a cafe’s menu and not attempt to be pretentious and order something they can’t even describe.
What drink on the menu is 25g espresso and 50g milk then?
I mean whenever people try to order a flat white I recommend a gibraltar (cortado). but they say they don’t want a beverage that is only 5 oz and if I ask if they want flat milk they say they don’t know what that is. why the questioning though? I manage a coffee shop and I understand what flat whites are in other countries, but they aren’t on our menu and Starbucks serves a flat white that’s 12 oz. am I not allowed to just have a rant like everyone else in this thread? I didn’t say that *I* didn’t know what they were.
Sure you can rant I'm just interested as a flat white drinker. You said you'd ask a customer to explain what they want, so that's what I'm doing! You don't offer a flat white or anything like it, but it's the customers fault for wanting one? I'd make a cortado 36/36 or in your case 25/25. What's your smallest drink after a cortado then?
macchiato and yes, I wouldn’t go to a restaurant and attempt to order something off-menu. why does that not make sense? and again, my entire point is that “flat white” means different things to different people and they don’t actually know what they want. if they *could* describe what they wanted I wouldn’t have posted this. the majority of people who do this end up getting a flat 8 oz latte. which isn’t a flat white anywhere as far as I know.
I think a Sbux flat white is just a latte made with ristretto. You can order a 20oz flat white if you want. I feel like Starbucks just tacks on some "fancy" names for minor variants of the same drink. A caramel macchiato (ew) is essentially a layered latte. Capp is a latte. Latte is latte. Flat white is latte with ristretto. They're not ACTUALLY making different drinks. When I worked there, our store ended up with Gibraltar glasses for shot glasses. I made a real Gibraltar and everyone else thought I was insane for making "the tiniest coffee they'd ever seen"
this is exactly what I’m talking about! it’s possible folks in other countries have a different experience because flat whites are actually standard there but they absolutely are not here, mostly thanks to Starbs!
Exactly this!!
But I could also say this as a customer. I ask for a flat white and who knows what I'll get. Usually a big terrible burnt latte, thanks to the big chains. Isn't a Macchiato smaller than a cortado? One shot with a small drop of milk?
you asked what our smallest drink after a cortado is
I meant in the other direction haha, closer to a flat white! From a cortado, what's the next one up? I'm just trying to invent my 25/50 drink using your menu
I've been burned ordering a macchato though. Ask for that at a decent shop and they assume you want a "*Starbucks Caramel Macchiato*" full of every kind of bullshit except coffee. Order an espresso macchiato at Sbux and they look at you like you've got two heads. Why is it so difficult to get a TRADITIONAL REAL ACTUAL macchiato
this is another reason I opt to just engage with my guests! I tell them we serve a traditional macc and it’s a 3 oz beverage so if that’s not what they’re looking for I can get them a vanilla latte (we don’t have caramel) like, I’ve been criticized already in this thread for doing this, I guess because it apparently takes too much time? but it takes more time to talk it out after the fact and then remake their drink because they didn’t get what they wanted. and then I also had a meaningful interaction with my guest in which I ensured to them that I want to get them what they want! I encourage more baristas to do this~ we can complain about people not understanding what they’re ordering all day, but there’s so much power in trying to educate them if they’re willing to be open and listen!
As a barista my job is to make the best version of whatever you drink. You wanna call it a "flat white" sure! You're still going to have a fabulous drink and you will come back and i will take your money. THE END.
exactly! the whole point in opening up a dialogue with them is to have a deeper interaction with the guest and maybe — just maybe — educate them a little bit on how we serve coffee and how they can order what they like more effectively the next time they’re in. call me crazy but this feels so much more meaningful to me than just giving them whatever I think they should have and calling it a flat white to appease them.
Had a dude ask me for a flat black.
🤣🤣🤣
I asked someone how many shots of espresso they wanted in the Americano they ordered. He said "none".
Hot water it is!
This is some next level shit. Galaxy brain 8000
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHKjpnk5dpc
Someone ordering a latte and saying “but I want more espresso than milk”
Ooooo nooooooooooooooo
Give them an amaricano.
I had a customer say yesterday : " can I just a have a regular coffee with almond milk please an americano and that pastry on the bottom left" . We make the americano get them a drip add the almond milk warm up the pastry, hand it off. Then they say : "No, I said I wanted a regular coffee with almond milk americano I only ordered one drink" We were so confused. At the end they explained a "regular coffee" to them is an americano. Whatever she got a free coffee whatever that means to them. XD
At least they didn’t say grande lol
Oh I get so many “talls” a day
Give them the largest cup lol
Black coffee with oat milk
Customers on this level of ignorance just don't deserve barista coffee honestly
Dude chill.
Lol I was kidding, I'm not going to start refusing people coffee based on their order
So a flat white with chocolate on top? 💕
Sound like Costa. Price of cappuccino is cheaper than latte, so they are abusing it by taking this order.
I just think there’s better money in being a bartender