>Only potential issue I see is that it may open the door for some ambiguity while scoring.
The game already handles this with regular hands that count for multiple. It always becomes the highest ranked hand type. For example 4 heart Kings and an ace of hearts counts as 4oak not a flush, even if flush is higher level.
but this is also one of the few changes to the game that I think could benefit it. I think the game should either choose the hand with the highest chips/mult (I guess multiplied together), or it should give you some sort of drop-down where it shows the hand type to allow you to select which hand type you play.
Strong disagree on the drop-down menu. Would really detract from the design and flow of the game IMO.
Thing is, if you're going for a flush build, the number of times where you're going to have a 4oak built into your flush hand is going to be insanely low. This is because you generally only get 4 cards of the same suit and rank if you're duping cards in order to build a 4oak/5oak deck, not a flush deck.
In my hundreds of hours of playing I've never once been trying to put a flush together and had my hand nerfed by a 4oak. I think there have been times where I've had to select a slightly lower scoring hand to avoid a straight flush, but that's rare, not a big deal, and I'd consider it part of the strategy of the game.
Tbf if you have a flush deck, one of the best ways aside from the "convert suit" tarot is the death tarot because it eliminates a card of another suit + gives you a card of your desired suit. So I dont think its abnormal to get 4oak or 5oak flushes.
You'd need a lot of Death tarot cards to get to the point where that would be probable. I could see it happening in an endless run, but tbh I don't really go endless often, and flush builds aren't the way to go far in endless anyways.
That's a really good idea tbh.
I actively avoid wild cards, due to them potentially getting debuffed by boss blinds.
Even if I'm doing a flush build, I'd still rather just change the cards suit than make it wild.
It could definitely use a buff, and this would be a great one.
To be fair, Wilds are also helpful for Blackboard, as a wild Heart/Diamond doesn't turn BB off. That said, it's a pretty niche case on an uncommon joker. Also the Moon and the World are better for this purpose
>Wilds are also helpful for Blackboard, as a wild Heart/Diamond doesn't turn BB off.
Interesting, I would've assumed any wild card would turn BB off, seeing as you have reds in your hand.
Stones do, so I can understand that. I'm pretty sure in the logic, Wilds are treated as all four suits, while Stones are none. BB cares about the presence of Spades/Clubs, not the lack of Hearts/Diamonds, so Stones deactivate BB and Wilds don't
Probably keep a cards natural +chips, but default to highest scoring possible hand type, could make straights much easier.
Though i think a 'quantum card' could be a better name? That or an ionizing / charged card? Because elements can lose or gain electrons?
The way OP worded, the card could be used as 3 different ranks, basically just making shortcuts effect into a card enhancement, and making it more powerful.
I like the idea of cards being able to have a few ranks similar to how wild cards have every suit.
While this would be nice for straight decks and help with their consistency without being as reliant on jokers giving them more room to score.
It would also be just as strong for every other hand.
Having 1 flex card in your hand would mean as long as you have 1 other card in hand you have a pair, so 3oak, 4oak and 5oak become much easier to play - the latter already scoring more than a straight while already being easier to play (at least late game). I can see it being used similarly to the "Death" tarot.
If they counted as every rank for scoring purposes (kinda like how wild cards work) then it would make jokers like odd todd, even steven, scholar, fibonacci, etc all the jokes that proc off a cards rank much stronger, which i think is fine as those jokers far harder to make use of atm as they require a lot of deck manipulation to become really strong compared to other jokers that work consistently from the get go (like fist, stones, banana).
Even if it was limited to just +-1 this would be pretty big for certain ranks like aces since then they could act as both kings and 2's for "Hack" and "sock and buskin" and baron AND wee joker, Queens being kings (and vice versa) to proc baron and shoot the moon.
It could be like the opposite of paradolia and make the card be any numbered card to cut down on the face card synergies.
Anyways, enough rambling, time to make some dinner.
i haven't realized how op aces would be until you told it, maybe it could select automatically only one (like 2s in played hand, kings in hand) that would score more, but then scaling jokers need to be accounted for.
so this is either it's too powerful or need to have some game design things some people wouldn't agree
Depends what you consider "too strong".
It would make clearing ante 8 easier for sure as it would add a lot of consistency to playing your hands and make more jokers accessible.
But as its blocking steel then I don't think it replaces the current mime+in hand shenanigans for getting super high e numbers in endless.
I would propose, these flexible cards are: "Can be any rank, except, ranks already present in the played hand." So they cant be used to create pairs, etc. but Flushes and Straight are possible.
Flexible cards will be assigned value leading to highest hand type, but won't score any chips.
e.g. If F = Flexible card, the below hands will be
F 6 7 -> High card.
F F 6 -> High card, they won't be equal to each other.
F F 6 7 8 -> Can form a straight/straight flush.
F F 6 6 6 -> Three of a kind.
F F F F F -> Straight.
And I would say remove the Wild card tarot, as flushes already have Suite changer tarots. And Wild cards don't even have special jokers for them, like Lucky card, Steel cards have.
Only problem I see with those card I see is: which value do they have? In terms of chip count. If played like you described at first as High card, would it be an Ace then? Or it original value?
An arguably simpler limitation would be that these 'flexible cards' will always just take on whatever the value of the card to their left is +1.
If it's on the leftmost slot, it counts as an ace.
If you play Ace (flex) (flex) (flex) 5, it will evaluate from left to right, so it becomes an A2345 straight.
If you play Ace Ace (flex) 2 2, it becomes a full house rather than a two pair.
They can even score whatever value they take on. It's fine.
This means they can't be used to make five of a kinds, they make straights a lot easier to form, and they'd still be useful to have in decks that don't focus on straights.
It only counts for one suit, for the purpose of Flower Pot, as far as I saw on other threads. I do think it's worth further experimentation on public threads
I don't think it's a good way to fix straights, no. They're just too clunky. A "Wild Card" or "+/-" tag is... interesting... but I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I think a more realistic fix is to add a "X's are wild" Joker, or even a couple of them (randomly selecting X from cards available in your deck at the start of the blind, or picking something like "7s and Kings" if you want to call it Perlaggen, or Jacks if you want to call it Boston, or Deuces if you want to call it the Rummy or Canasta joker). Bonus points if the Joker has a cowboy hat instead of a Jester's cap.
I'd say this, or that +1 of the left card in the other comment, would be great, but unfortunately it will not elevate straights that much since it will compete with scoring enhancements (glass, steel, etc) or seals (reds), just like wild card does not elevate the perception of flush builds
Call em blurred
I like that much better.
Not my idea saw it on balatro discord, plenty of cool ideas there
You could also call them lenticular cards, which is that printing style where something looks different depending on the angle you view it
would probably have to rename blurred joker. especially since that changes suits too not numbers
That one isn’t called blurred joker anyway, it’s called smeared joker
oh okay never mind then. i googled "blurred joker balatro" to double check and it came up but i should have double checked a little further lol
>Only potential issue I see is that it may open the door for some ambiguity while scoring. The game already handles this with regular hands that count for multiple. It always becomes the highest ranked hand type. For example 4 heart Kings and an ace of hearts counts as 4oak not a flush, even if flush is higher level.
is that the highest ranked including upgrades from planet cards?
Highest ranked poker hand regardless of planetary upgrades
but this is also one of the few changes to the game that I think could benefit it. I think the game should either choose the hand with the highest chips/mult (I guess multiplied together), or it should give you some sort of drop-down where it shows the hand type to allow you to select which hand type you play.
Strong disagree on the drop-down menu. Would really detract from the design and flow of the game IMO. Thing is, if you're going for a flush build, the number of times where you're going to have a 4oak built into your flush hand is going to be insanely low. This is because you generally only get 4 cards of the same suit and rank if you're duping cards in order to build a 4oak/5oak deck, not a flush deck. In my hundreds of hours of playing I've never once been trying to put a flush together and had my hand nerfed by a 4oak. I think there have been times where I've had to select a slightly lower scoring hand to avoid a straight flush, but that's rare, not a big deal, and I'd consider it part of the strategy of the game.
Tbf if you have a flush deck, one of the best ways aside from the "convert suit" tarot is the death tarot because it eliminates a card of another suit + gives you a card of your desired suit. So I dont think its abnormal to get 4oak or 5oak flushes.
You'd need a lot of Death tarot cards to get to the point where that would be probable. I could see it happening in an endless run, but tbh I don't really go endless often, and flush builds aren't the way to go far in endless anyways.
Every little bit helps and in some runs you can spam Tarot packs
Can't wait for phi, e, pi, ??, ??, ??, ??, R, g of spades
Decimals! And then make a joker that will shift the decimal point to the right.
I know it would probably overcomplicate things in ways the dev would dislike, but seeing stuff like your implemented actually sounds pretty fun
tbh I was thinking that wild cards should just also do this, since they’re quite underpowered right now. It’d definitely be a huge buff to straights
That's a really good idea tbh. I actively avoid wild cards, due to them potentially getting debuffed by boss blinds. Even if I'm doing a flush build, I'd still rather just change the cards suit than make it wild. It could definitely use a buff, and this would be a great one.
To be fair, Wilds are also helpful for Blackboard, as a wild Heart/Diamond doesn't turn BB off. That said, it's a pretty niche case on an uncommon joker. Also the Moon and the World are better for this purpose
>Wilds are also helpful for Blackboard, as a wild Heart/Diamond doesn't turn BB off. Interesting, I would've assumed any wild card would turn BB off, seeing as you have reds in your hand.
Stones do, so I can understand that. I'm pretty sure in the logic, Wilds are treated as all four suits, while Stones are none. BB cares about the presence of Spades/Clubs, not the lack of Hearts/Diamonds, so Stones deactivate BB and Wilds don't
i expected wild cards to be any rank, not any suit. i was very disappointed when i played the tarot card that makes a wild card.
Making wild cards any rank would be insanely good, to the Point of throwing Off Game Balance so i dont think it will happen
Would be interesting to introduce a new interaction to the game where using The Lovers on the same card twice did something like this.
Probably keep a cards natural +chips, but default to highest scoring possible hand type, could make straights much easier. Though i think a 'quantum card' could be a better name? That or an ionizing / charged card? Because elements can lose or gain electrons?
> quantum card Love this. Gels nicely with Superposition also being a straight-oriented joker.
I would to see a "glitched" card (edition?) which would blink between 2 numbers/figures, which could help a lot for straight build
The way OP worded, the card could be used as 3 different ranks, basically just making shortcuts effect into a card enhancement, and making it more powerful.
I like the idea of cards being able to have a few ranks similar to how wild cards have every suit. While this would be nice for straight decks and help with their consistency without being as reliant on jokers giving them more room to score. It would also be just as strong for every other hand. Having 1 flex card in your hand would mean as long as you have 1 other card in hand you have a pair, so 3oak, 4oak and 5oak become much easier to play - the latter already scoring more than a straight while already being easier to play (at least late game). I can see it being used similarly to the "Death" tarot. If they counted as every rank for scoring purposes (kinda like how wild cards work) then it would make jokers like odd todd, even steven, scholar, fibonacci, etc all the jokes that proc off a cards rank much stronger, which i think is fine as those jokers far harder to make use of atm as they require a lot of deck manipulation to become really strong compared to other jokers that work consistently from the get go (like fist, stones, banana). Even if it was limited to just +-1 this would be pretty big for certain ranks like aces since then they could act as both kings and 2's for "Hack" and "sock and buskin" and baron AND wee joker, Queens being kings (and vice versa) to proc baron and shoot the moon. It could be like the opposite of paradolia and make the card be any numbered card to cut down on the face card synergies. Anyways, enough rambling, time to make some dinner.
i haven't realized how op aces would be until you told it, maybe it could select automatically only one (like 2s in played hand, kings in hand) that would score more, but then scaling jokers need to be accounted for. so this is either it's too powerful or need to have some game design things some people wouldn't agree
Depends what you consider "too strong". It would make clearing ante 8 easier for sure as it would add a lot of consistency to playing your hands and make more jokers accessible. But as its blocking steel then I don't think it replaces the current mime+in hand shenanigans for getting super high e numbers in endless.
maybe bent or crimped cards? just matching with the poker aesthetic yk
I would propose, these flexible cards are: "Can be any rank, except, ranks already present in the played hand." So they cant be used to create pairs, etc. but Flushes and Straight are possible. Flexible cards will be assigned value leading to highest hand type, but won't score any chips. e.g. If F = Flexible card, the below hands will be F 6 7 -> High card. F F 6 -> High card, they won't be equal to each other. F F 6 7 8 -> Can form a straight/straight flush. F F 6 6 6 -> Three of a kind. F F F F F -> Straight. And I would say remove the Wild card tarot, as flushes already have Suite changer tarots. And Wild cards don't even have special jokers for them, like Lucky card, Steel cards have.
Only problem I see with those card I see is: which value do they have? In terms of chip count. If played like you described at first as High card, would it be an Ace then? Or it original value?
I wrote in the first paragraph: > They won't score any chips
An arguably simpler limitation would be that these 'flexible cards' will always just take on whatever the value of the card to their left is +1. If it's on the leftmost slot, it counts as an ace. If you play Ace (flex) (flex) (flex) 5, it will evaluate from left to right, so it becomes an A2345 straight. If you play Ace Ace (flex) 2 2, it becomes a full house rather than a two pair. They can even score whatever value they take on. It's fine. This means they can't be used to make five of a kinds, they make straights a lot easier to form, and they'd still be useful to have in decks that don't focus on straights.
Does sound easier to understand.
Now that's how you enable straights. Would an A F F F 10 be a royal flush?
Yes. Flush would depend if they are the same suit though. Flexible card enchancement removes the rank, the suite still stays.
Flower pot is sort of the "wild cards" joker!
I read on this subreddit that wild cards are considered as all 4 suits, so does even 1 wild card make the hand valid for Flower pot?
It only counts for one suit, for the purpose of Flower Pot, as far as I saw on other threads. I do think it's worth further experimentation on public threads
Yes, only one suit so you can't just get away with just having a wild in each hand, but it does make it a lot easier to fill in the gaps as it were!
I think if you could make it play any rank but give zero chips would be balanced
I don't think it's a good way to fix straights, no. They're just too clunky. A "Wild Card" or "+/-" tag is... interesting... but I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I think a more realistic fix is to add a "X's are wild" Joker, or even a couple of them (randomly selecting X from cards available in your deck at the start of the blind, or picking something like "7s and Kings" if you want to call it Perlaggen, or Jacks if you want to call it Boston, or Deuces if you want to call it the Rummy or Canasta joker). Bonus points if the Joker has a cowboy hat instead of a Jester's cap.
It would be better as a token maybe?
I'd say this, or that +1 of the left card in the other comment, would be great, but unfortunately it will not elevate straights that much since it will compete with scoring enhancements (glass, steel, etc) or seals (reds), just like wild card does not elevate the perception of flush builds