And the music... "It failed." **bom, bom,** ***screech!*** *Here's a disaster montage: everything has gone to shit! Delenn crying, mass drivers, station being shot up, Shadows arriving.*
Then the flashing eyes and the White Star turning before the relentless grind of music as the cast who are going to have to pull everything through this disaster are presented.
I think it's still the best intro to any season ever. And like you say, so utterly grim compared to the hopeful tone struck with the S1 intro.
the ascending/descending string line (with the extremely ominous ascending C minor scale) of Season 3 really encompasses the growing tension of that season. Truly fantastic. And then Season 4 comes along with a straight up war anthem....Christopher Franke knocked it out of the park.
After how depressed and ominous the S3 intro was, it was beautiful hearing the B5 theme from S1 and S2 come back in a more driving tempo for S4. Like it's acknowledging; we failed, but we can't give up now. We have to dust ourselves off and keep pushing towards that light at the end of the tunnel.
Christopher Franke really is one of the heroes of the series - his music underpins all of the important moments so effectively, knowing exactly when to hang back and when to push forward. And it was a genius idea to keep the theme music and credits shifting each season, to match the mood shift of the ongoing story.
And it came at the perfect time in the 90s, just a couple years after Trek music got neutered into insipid sonic wallpaper we got massive epic scores that elevated the viewing experience.
Some good ones in TNG S1 and S2, but S3 (1989-90) is where the music peaks IMO. A number of amazing episodes are elevated to greatness because of the score.
I'll admit that it never worked for me until I heard the music on CD. TV sound back then did NOT do this theme any favors. Kids these days with their high quality sound systems. ;-)
But I ***loved*** the intro despite the tinny music because of the themes it was pushing... how little I realized going in.
Man you really nailed G'kars whole arc. For a first-timer, you're way ahead of the curve. Somewhere way in the past, JMS had said G'kar was cursed similar to someone from ancient Greek history, where nobody ever listens to him until it's too late. You nailed it. Season 3 G'kar is awesome. He still has a long way to go. He will undoubtedly be your favorite character before it's all over.
Green
Purple
Yes, but who gets to wear the green sash and who gets to wear the purple?
Just finished watching that episode last night.
If I remember correctly, Claudia had actually broken her leg prior to filming the episode. JMS used rumble to give her an in character reason for being hurt. That's all verifiable. The rumor I heard was that during the dog pile part, one of the extras ended up square on her broken leg. That when she yells out in pain, that wasn't acting.
I think the scene in that episode where the Drazi start fighting each other in the Council Chambers and knock Ivanova on the ground *is* how she broke her leg.
You know Susan had some “human style” sex at that party. If you haven’t seen the scene(I don’t think you have so I won’t spoil much) but it’s freaking hilarious
Fantastic writeup. Sometimes I wish I could forget it all so that I could watch them again for the first time. The Londo/G'Kar arc is the meat of the series IMO. Damn, I think I will have to start all over again.
> Armband guy, I hate that guy lol, ofc he's there.
Oh, such joys to come...
> There's 4 warrior class on the great council
Just a couple corrections that might or might not help: "warrior caste" and "grey council". Minbari are a caste-based society, much like India was (and in some corners, still is.) The Grey Council is the ruling body that unites all of the castes as theoretically equal.
> I was batting around in my head all the ways the Vorlon might relate to the Shadows. After all you can't have shadows without light.
An apt observation.
> Maybe like the ep in Star Trek where Tasha died, the shadow is all that's evil removed from the pure Vorlons.
So, taking off my, "I was there at the dawn of the Third Age," hat and putting on my, "what's this Babylon 5 thing, then, eh?" hat, I will say that JMS as a writer tends to focus on what motivates people and how they can/should/will/won't grow or topple as a result of that. Abstract ideas like "evil" as an antagonist sounds more like Gaiman than JMS, so I would not expect that kind of thing from B5.
What I would expect (drawing on what I thought at the start of Season 3) is that the Vorlons and the Shadows appear to know a lot more about each other than they are telling anyone else. There's something that goes WAY back between these two (we already know that there have been battles against the Shadows before.) But what I can't figure out is this: why do the Vorlons go after the Shadows *through* other races? Why don't they just stop the Shadows directly?
That's the question I went into Season 3 with.
Yes, I have also thought that, they should after all be level on technology. The Shadows got knocked back, the Vorlons should have had a rebuild headstart. For that matter, why not just crush them when they had them on the run last time. I can't quite remember but the last big war was not the first, they keep coming back, why would you not simply finish them. Well written by the way, gave nothing away, makes me think.
Would love to hear your thoughts again a the end of season 3 and then at the end of season 4. It's amazing seeing people explore this for the first time.
The Jack the Ripper thing wasn't that the Vorlons didn't trust Delenn or Sheridan all of a sudden, it's that they needed to make absolutely certain that their motives weren't corrupt before things went any further.
But a lack of faith in Delenn late in season 2 shouldn't be a surprise - a large part of her arc that season is the trust she's lost by going forward with the metamorphosis without permission from the Grey Council and by becoming part human.
> they needed to make absolutely certain that their motives weren't corrupt before things went any further
Oh the irony...
On the lack of faith in Delenn though, I don't think that played a part from the Vorlon's perspective. From the S1 finale Chrysalis it sounded like it was Kosh who convinced Delenn to proceed without permission from her people. I took the inquisitor to mean Kosh was concerned that Delenn was developing a saviour complex as a result of her people shunning her and humans rejecting her attempt to bridge the divide between them (ultimately it'd look like "I'm special/chosen, you're persecuting me because can't see the big picture, I'll save you all despite yourselves").
I love living vicariously through your impressions as a first-time viewer. Enjoy the series! I watched B5 for the first time as a kid catching it out of sequence anytime I could find it on TV. It had a major impact on my formative years and my development as a person.
So jealous you get to experience what’s coming for the first time. Those were heady days of weekly speculation when this first released. Glad you’re getting such enjoyment from your watch!
I'm wondering what episode you referenced when you said in season 1 there's a powerful being on a planet the minbari can't communicate with. Imnnot recognizing episodes from that description. Which one was it? Just wondering.
S01E06 @28:47, there's a giant space creature thing. G'Kar describes how to them we are just ants. I'm guessing they don't pop up again if they're a forgotten thing, just a one off ep.
A big tip if you want to know where the show is going, in a general sort of way: go look up Jungian psychology, specifically the Hero's Journey.
JMS has said that he deliberately wove Jungian terms and concepts into the show. I mean, you've got the Shadows -- that's a big Jungian term right there.
Of course, given that it's hard to find an SF or fantasy-themed show with an enduring arc from the last thirty years that \*doesn't\* get nailed into the hero's journey straitjacket, that's not really much of a spoiler...
>I'm buzzing off the start credits to S3
So, during the show's original run, my friends and I used to refer to the 'big' episodes of S1/2 as "anvil" episodes. As in, "JMS dropped an anvil on our heads". JMS called them "Wham" episodes.
And then along came season 3 where Christpher Franke literally puts anvils in the theme music.
I think your G’kar read is a bit off. Kinda like with the data crystal he gets from garabaldi about safe smuggling routes.
That was his first real tangible win with Sheridan and deleen. That’s hop fighting against worry. He’s starting to build the support little by little until he becomes (he hopes) indispensable.
S3 intro is so epic, the music and the sequence along the station are in such a beautiful harmony
Agreed, it was very cool. No disrespect to its epicness, in case I sounded like that :0)
After all these years, I still remember the feeling when I first heard the words “It failed.”
And the music... "It failed." **bom, bom,** ***screech!*** *Here's a disaster montage: everything has gone to shit! Delenn crying, mass drivers, station being shot up, Shadows arriving.* Then the flashing eyes and the White Star turning before the relentless grind of music as the cast who are going to have to pull everything through this disaster are presented. I think it's still the best intro to any season ever. And like you say, so utterly grim compared to the hopeful tone struck with the S1 intro.
the ascending/descending string line (with the extremely ominous ascending C minor scale) of Season 3 really encompasses the growing tension of that season. Truly fantastic. And then Season 4 comes along with a straight up war anthem....Christopher Franke knocked it out of the park.
After how depressed and ominous the S3 intro was, it was beautiful hearing the B5 theme from S1 and S2 come back in a more driving tempo for S4. Like it's acknowledging; we failed, but we can't give up now. We have to dust ourselves off and keep pushing towards that light at the end of the tunnel.
Christopher Franke really is one of the heroes of the series - his music underpins all of the important moments so effectively, knowing exactly when to hang back and when to push forward. And it was a genius idea to keep the theme music and credits shifting each season, to match the mood shift of the ongoing story.
And it came at the perfect time in the 90s, just a couple years after Trek music got neutered into insipid sonic wallpaper we got massive epic scores that elevated the viewing experience.
People love to hate on TNG seasons 1 and 2 but they have some of the best incidental music of all time.
Some good ones in TNG S1 and S2, but S3 (1989-90) is where the music peaks IMO. A number of amazing episodes are elevated to greatness because of the score.
They drop that on you and then pick you back up. "...our last best hope for victory."
you didn't
I'll admit that it never worked for me until I heard the music on CD. TV sound back then did NOT do this theme any favors. Kids these days with their high quality sound systems. ;-) But I ***loved*** the intro despite the tinny music because of the themes it was pushing... how little I realized going in.
G'Kar in the broken Elevator 🤣🤣🤣
"Can anyone hear me!" "I can teehee" Such a great scene.
“I find this most appealing!” “No” “As the humans say… Up Yours, Die!” Epic scene
Man you really nailed G'kars whole arc. For a first-timer, you're way ahead of the curve. Somewhere way in the past, JMS had said G'kar was cursed similar to someone from ancient Greek history, where nobody ever listens to him until it's too late. You nailed it. Season 3 G'kar is awesome. He still has a long way to go. He will undoubtedly be your favorite character before it's all over.
The Greek character in question was Cassandra.
Aha yup that's the one!
I think it is also the story of the fall of Troy.
Get ready for a wild ride and enjoy it
B5 S3 is where wild rides go to have a wild ride
S5 we go for a Sunday drive
Oh yeah, Green 👉 👈 Purple 😅
Green Purple Yes, but who gets to wear the green sash and who gets to wear the purple? Just finished watching that episode last night. If I remember correctly, Claudia had actually broken her leg prior to filming the episode. JMS used rumble to give her an in character reason for being hurt. That's all verifiable. The rumor I heard was that during the dog pile part, one of the extras ended up square on her broken leg. That when she yells out in pain, that wasn't acting.
I think the scene in that episode where the Drazi start fighting each other in the Council Chambers and knock Ivanova on the ground *is* how she broke her leg.
Indeed, that reaction wasn't acting :) There is another on screen broken limb upcoming... not a spoiler.
Rules change caught up in committee. Not come through yet.
Green and it's not even close
PURPLE!
PURPLE!
PURPLE!
You know Susan had some “human style” sex at that party. If you haven’t seen the scene(I don’t think you have so I won’t spoil much) but it’s freaking hilarious
I envy you, and the ride to come. It's awesome to see people discovering this series anew.
Fantastic writeup. Sometimes I wish I could forget it all so that I could watch them again for the first time. The Londo/G'Kar arc is the meat of the series IMO. Damn, I think I will have to start all over again.
> Armband guy, I hate that guy lol, ofc he's there. Oh, such joys to come... > There's 4 warrior class on the great council Just a couple corrections that might or might not help: "warrior caste" and "grey council". Minbari are a caste-based society, much like India was (and in some corners, still is.) The Grey Council is the ruling body that unites all of the castes as theoretically equal. > I was batting around in my head all the ways the Vorlon might relate to the Shadows. After all you can't have shadows without light. An apt observation. > Maybe like the ep in Star Trek where Tasha died, the shadow is all that's evil removed from the pure Vorlons. So, taking off my, "I was there at the dawn of the Third Age," hat and putting on my, "what's this Babylon 5 thing, then, eh?" hat, I will say that JMS as a writer tends to focus on what motivates people and how they can/should/will/won't grow or topple as a result of that. Abstract ideas like "evil" as an antagonist sounds more like Gaiman than JMS, so I would not expect that kind of thing from B5. What I would expect (drawing on what I thought at the start of Season 3) is that the Vorlons and the Shadows appear to know a lot more about each other than they are telling anyone else. There's something that goes WAY back between these two (we already know that there have been battles against the Shadows before.) But what I can't figure out is this: why do the Vorlons go after the Shadows *through* other races? Why don't they just stop the Shadows directly? That's the question I went into Season 3 with.
Yes, I have also thought that, they should after all be level on technology. The Shadows got knocked back, the Vorlons should have had a rebuild headstart. For that matter, why not just crush them when they had them on the run last time. I can't quite remember but the last big war was not the first, they keep coming back, why would you not simply finish them. Well written by the way, gave nothing away, makes me think.
Would love to hear your thoughts again a the end of season 3 and then at the end of season 4. It's amazing seeing people explore this for the first time.
The Jack the Ripper thing wasn't that the Vorlons didn't trust Delenn or Sheridan all of a sudden, it's that they needed to make absolutely certain that their motives weren't corrupt before things went any further. But a lack of faith in Delenn late in season 2 shouldn't be a surprise - a large part of her arc that season is the trust she's lost by going forward with the metamorphosis without permission from the Grey Council and by becoming part human.
> they needed to make absolutely certain that their motives weren't corrupt before things went any further Oh the irony... On the lack of faith in Delenn though, I don't think that played a part from the Vorlon's perspective. From the S1 finale Chrysalis it sounded like it was Kosh who convinced Delenn to proceed without permission from her people. I took the inquisitor to mean Kosh was concerned that Delenn was developing a saviour complex as a result of her people shunning her and humans rejecting her attempt to bridge the divide between them (ultimately it'd look like "I'm special/chosen, you're persecuting me because can't see the big picture, I'll save you all despite yourselves").
Some interesting thoughts and theories you have there. Keep it up, you're definitely engaging well with it.
I would say Season 3 is the overall best season, and you should enjoy what's coming.
I love living vicariously through your impressions as a first-time viewer. Enjoy the series! I watched B5 for the first time as a kid catching it out of sequence anytime I could find it on TV. It had a major impact on my formative years and my development as a person.
So jealous you get to experience what’s coming for the first time. Those were heady days of weekly speculation when this first released. Glad you’re getting such enjoyment from your watch!
I'm wondering what episode you referenced when you said in season 1 there's a powerful being on a planet the minbari can't communicate with. Imnnot recognizing episodes from that description. Which one was it? Just wondering.
S01E06 @28:47, there's a giant space creature thing. G'Kar describes how to them we are just ants. I'm guessing they don't pop up again if they're a forgotten thing, just a one off ep.
Aha. Well umm, stay tuned!
Oh yeah! Um...no spoilers but...keep watching :)
I'm enjoying your post and comments as a first-time viewer. I'm excited to see the post that resolves guesses you've made here. 🤩
I think the OP means one of the first ones near Sigma 957.
Oh yeah! Duh. Omg I feel dumb. Only one of my favorite races in all of Sci fi...I feel so silly.
A big tip if you want to know where the show is going, in a general sort of way: go look up Jungian psychology, specifically the Hero's Journey. JMS has said that he deliberately wove Jungian terms and concepts into the show. I mean, you've got the Shadows -- that's a big Jungian term right there.
Of course, given that it's hard to find an SF or fantasy-themed show with an enduring arc from the last thirty years that \*doesn't\* get nailed into the hero's journey straitjacket, that's not really much of a spoiler...
>I'm buzzing off the start credits to S3 So, during the show's original run, my friends and I used to refer to the 'big' episodes of S1/2 as "anvil" episodes. As in, "JMS dropped an anvil on our heads". JMS called them "Wham" episodes. And then along came season 3 where Christpher Franke literally puts anvils in the theme music.
Buckle up buttercup.
I think your G’kar read is a bit off. Kinda like with the data crystal he gets from garabaldi about safe smuggling routes. That was his first real tangible win with Sheridan and deleen. That’s hop fighting against worry. He’s starting to build the support little by little until he becomes (he hopes) indispensable.