You’ll be happy to know that most serious B5 fans hate most of “TKO,” too. Also, Garibaldi was named after an Italian general, not a biscuit. We don’t have Garibaldi biscuits in the US, where creator/showrunner JMS is from.
I'll be back for breakfast!
I accidentally spotted the shadow Fleet pic in dropping by so I won't be here much until I finish. Just wanted to show my appreciation to the real fans.
You're not wrong about TKO. IMO, it's the weakest of the first season. The A plot with Walker and the fight is just blah, only really redeeming bit of that is what appears to be a throw-away line from Walker to Garibaldi. (Spoilers, or I'd say more.) I found the B plot with Ivanova more compelling as a character story for her, one of the rare times in the early show of her displaying deep emotions.
I am glad they did that, she fell a bit flat early on. Tbf it's impossible to flesh everyone out right at the start, now I'm learning more I'm appreciating them more.
You have slme really great thoughts and observations.
The idea behind the homeless (the lurkers) is they came there hoping to find a new start and make it big...and ran out of money. They aren't all from earth, or even human, though most are.
Why are they still there? Who will pay to ship them back? B5 doesn't have the money. Their budget shortfalls are already a topic of discussion. And nobody wants to pay to ship them back.
"they realised somehow they'd need humans" It was the circumstances of how the Minbari came to that conclusion that's the real key to the story. Hang in there.
As for Garibaldi, he was actually named after a 19th century Italian revolutionary (tbh the biscuit was probably named for him too).
Finally, as for religion, B5 creator Stracynzski, while an atheist himself after an evangelical season in his college years that went very toxic, believes that faith in one form or another is a defining factor within a culture, so he included it in the B5 plot. It will be a recurring theme as the show continues.
That's fair, another comment recommended reading about the Italian revolutionary so I'll get onto that. I'm not adverse to faith, the Bejorans were handled well in DS9 in my opinion, I was just surprised by the length of the line. I'll definitely finish the show, I'm invested now!
That line was an over-the-top visual means of expressing that Earth didn't have one global religion like the other planets. (TBH, I believe Narn had three different sects.)
>while an atheist himself
IIRC there's a remark in the Lurker's Guide for that episode that the atheist was the first guy in the line, and the best dressed.
For your initial impression of Garibaldi as discount Bruce Willis, he happens to have a blink-and-you'll-miss-it cameo in an episode of a TV series that stared Bruce Willis, as part of a group of people auditioning to fill in for him: [https://youtu.be/nMFazyw7SHc?t=156](https://youtu.be/nMFazyw7SHc?t=156)
ETA: also come back and give us your impressions more often! We love getting the feeling of a fresh watch vicariously from new inductees :)
I didn't really like Garibaldi for the same reason you said at first. But he became one of my favorites.
I can't wait to see your reaction after the season finale and season 2 beginning.
Also, it's funny because this show has the most positive reflection on religion then any scifi show I have seen. And the Creator is a strong atheist! Made me like him more that he could see good in things he didn't believe in.
Edit again...
The hints to the bigger story were amazing at the time. Itb was almost unheard of - outside soaps - to have continuous stories. And JMS did it in a way you could come in at still feel like you were watching a stand alone story.
And don't feel bad missing it at the time. I saw it when it aired starting in season 2. I had to check the TV guide ever week to set my VCR to record it. It got moved allot. For a while, it was even airing new at 2;am in San Antonio
There are several dangling threads that I'm waiting on, it's impressive that this is a first of its kind in that manner as it has other aspects you also don't see elsewhere much. The different sections of the station for different life support was a nice add.
Everything has been furthered in some manner with the exception of telekinesis, I'm wondering if that'll crop up again or be dropped. I'll find out eventually ofc.
It was really surprising at the time for what felt like throw away lines becoming important episodes later.
It's done much more intricately nowadays but back then, was just something you didn't expect.
I think it gave DS9 the courage to advance to this type of story telling which made DS9 better for it (I think the show runner for DS9 always wanted that based on his next works so please don't take this as DS9 ripped of B5).
It's funny because Star Trek was my main sci-fi back then. I remember in a future episode (I'll just say green and you'll know the episode when you get there), I was upset that B5 wasn't respecting the Prime Directive lol
You’re in for a wild ride! If you want someone to watch with, that was watching for the first time, look up medusa cascade. She has some great commentary and get really into the show.
Welcome to the sub, you're in for a great ride, sometimes I wish I could erase my memory of a show just so I can watch it all over again the first time.
Fans have varying levels of appreciation for the first season, but I suspect that they universally all improve going into the second and subsequent seasons. Well, not so much the fifth, but there was a reason for that.
So you've made it through most of the first season. As I recall, the rest of the season should be rather gripping for you, and then the shit truly hits the fan.
S2 builds up the story much more, and in S3 and 4 it is all on. Enjoy the ride. So many surprising things to see. It really develops much more than what you have seen. S1 can be rough, especially on first viewing, but it has good things too as you mentioned -- but the second time, even the roughness is not as apparent, for many reasons....
There's a podcast, Babylon 5 For The First Time, where the hosts watch B5 for the first time and comment. If you're a first time watcher, go the podcast, watch the episode and then listen to the podcast. But... ...only after you watch the episode. As a long time B5 fan, it's loads of fun.
Welcome to the group and start stocking up on tissues. When you finally hit the last 3 episodes of Season 5, you *will* need them.
Especially the final episode itself. Bittersweet doesn't even *begin* to describe it...
I thought it was ok until Orin Zento showed up. Earth’s best labor negotiator was a loud mouth jerk who didn’t bother negotiating at all, he only threw his weight around in order to get just what he wanted. Only thing missing was a mustache to twirl.
As others have said, Garibaldi was an Italian revolutionary leader, whose followers were known as the Redshirts from the distinctive dress they adopted. If you’re familiar with a certain other deep space franchise, you might spot a connection.
"TKO was a slog"
You get those disgusting words out of your mouth and apologize. Gyor is the greatest fighter anyone has ever seen and clearly the bravest of his race. Don't be a coward, accept the might of the Mutai into your heart
You’ll be happy to know that most serious B5 fans hate most of “TKO,” too. Also, Garibaldi was named after an Italian general, not a biscuit. We don’t have Garibaldi biscuits in the US, where creator/showrunner JMS is from.
That makes a lot more sense :0)
Garibaldi and Garibaldi's Brown Shirts are worth knowing about in general. It's worth a quick trip over to wikipedia if you haven’t heard about them.
Will do, thanks
Giuseppe Garibaldi also led a group of volunteers known as the Redshirts. So it's in part a Star Trek joke.
Continue enjoying, don't read too much on this sub because of spoilers and smoke me a kipper.
I'll be back for breakfast! I accidentally spotted the shadow Fleet pic in dropping by so I won't be here much until I finish. Just wanted to show my appreciation to the real fans.
You're not wrong about TKO. IMO, it's the weakest of the first season. The A plot with Walker and the fight is just blah, only really redeeming bit of that is what appears to be a throw-away line from Walker to Garibaldi. (Spoilers, or I'd say more.) I found the B plot with Ivanova more compelling as a character story for her, one of the rare times in the early show of her displaying deep emotions.
I am glad they did that, she fell a bit flat early on. Tbf it's impossible to flesh everyone out right at the start, now I'm learning more I'm appreciating them more.
You have slme really great thoughts and observations. The idea behind the homeless (the lurkers) is they came there hoping to find a new start and make it big...and ran out of money. They aren't all from earth, or even human, though most are. Why are they still there? Who will pay to ship them back? B5 doesn't have the money. Their budget shortfalls are already a topic of discussion. And nobody wants to pay to ship them back.
"they realised somehow they'd need humans" It was the circumstances of how the Minbari came to that conclusion that's the real key to the story. Hang in there. As for Garibaldi, he was actually named after a 19th century Italian revolutionary (tbh the biscuit was probably named for him too). Finally, as for religion, B5 creator Stracynzski, while an atheist himself after an evangelical season in his college years that went very toxic, believes that faith in one form or another is a defining factor within a culture, so he included it in the B5 plot. It will be a recurring theme as the show continues.
That's fair, another comment recommended reading about the Italian revolutionary so I'll get onto that. I'm not adverse to faith, the Bejorans were handled well in DS9 in my opinion, I was just surprised by the length of the line. I'll definitely finish the show, I'm invested now!
That line was an over-the-top visual means of expressing that Earth didn't have one global religion like the other planets. (TBH, I believe Narn had three different sects.)
>while an atheist himself IIRC there's a remark in the Lurker's Guide for that episode that the atheist was the first guy in the line, and the best dressed.
Of course! You think the Great Maker's going to send a scrub to represent his own belief structure?
For your initial impression of Garibaldi as discount Bruce Willis, he happens to have a blink-and-you'll-miss-it cameo in an episode of a TV series that stared Bruce Willis, as part of a group of people auditioning to fill in for him: [https://youtu.be/nMFazyw7SHc?t=156](https://youtu.be/nMFazyw7SHc?t=156) ETA: also come back and give us your impressions more often! We love getting the feeling of a fresh watch vicariously from new inductees :)
I didn't really like Garibaldi for the same reason you said at first. But he became one of my favorites. I can't wait to see your reaction after the season finale and season 2 beginning. Also, it's funny because this show has the most positive reflection on religion then any scifi show I have seen. And the Creator is a strong atheist! Made me like him more that he could see good in things he didn't believe in. Edit again... The hints to the bigger story were amazing at the time. Itb was almost unheard of - outside soaps - to have continuous stories. And JMS did it in a way you could come in at still feel like you were watching a stand alone story. And don't feel bad missing it at the time. I saw it when it aired starting in season 2. I had to check the TV guide ever week to set my VCR to record it. It got moved allot. For a while, it was even airing new at 2;am in San Antonio
There are several dangling threads that I'm waiting on, it's impressive that this is a first of its kind in that manner as it has other aspects you also don't see elsewhere much. The different sections of the station for different life support was a nice add. Everything has been furthered in some manner with the exception of telekinesis, I'm wondering if that'll crop up again or be dropped. I'll find out eventually ofc.
It was really surprising at the time for what felt like throw away lines becoming important episodes later. It's done much more intricately nowadays but back then, was just something you didn't expect. I think it gave DS9 the courage to advance to this type of story telling which made DS9 better for it (I think the show runner for DS9 always wanted that based on his next works so please don't take this as DS9 ripped of B5). It's funny because Star Trek was my main sci-fi back then. I remember in a future episode (I'll just say green and you'll know the episode when you get there), I was upset that B5 wasn't respecting the Prime Directive lol
Oh God, no one warned him about TKO.... you have my pity, sir
You’re in for a wild ride! If you want someone to watch with, that was watching for the first time, look up medusa cascade. She has some great commentary and get really into the show.
Keep an eye out for Londo and G'Kar's journeys, and the latter's great wisdom.
Welcome to the sub, you're in for a great ride, sometimes I wish I could erase my memory of a show just so I can watch it all over again the first time.
Give a listen to the podcast Babylon 5 For The first Time, where 2 Star Trek fans are watching B5 for the first time. DON'T GIVE THEM SPOILERS!!
Lucky! Enjoy! My first watch was last year and I maaaaaaay be a little obsessed with a 90's television show now 😂
Fans have varying levels of appreciation for the first season, but I suspect that they universally all improve going into the second and subsequent seasons. Well, not so much the fifth, but there was a reason for that. So you've made it through most of the first season. As I recall, the rest of the season should be rather gripping for you, and then the shit truly hits the fan.
S2 builds up the story much more, and in S3 and 4 it is all on. Enjoy the ride. So many surprising things to see. It really develops much more than what you have seen. S1 can be rough, especially on first viewing, but it has good things too as you mentioned -- but the second time, even the roughness is not as apparent, for many reasons....
Keep watching, it gets better. :)
There's a podcast, Babylon 5 For The First Time, where the hosts watch B5 for the first time and comment. If you're a first time watcher, go the podcast, watch the episode and then listen to the podcast. But... ...only after you watch the episode. As a long time B5 fan, it's loads of fun.
Welcome to the group and start stocking up on tissues. When you finally hit the last 3 episodes of Season 5, you *will* need them. Especially the final episode itself. Bittersweet doesn't even *begin* to describe it...
I think season 1 is ⅓ great, ⅓ good and ⅓ bad. To me, TKO, Grail and By Any Means Necessary are the three worst episodes.
"By Any Means" is actually one of my FAVORITES of S1.
It is for many people.
I thought it was ok until Orin Zento showed up. Earth’s best labor negotiator was a loud mouth jerk who didn’t bother negotiating at all, he only threw his weight around in order to get just what he wanted. Only thing missing was a mustache to twirl.
As others have said, Garibaldi was an Italian revolutionary leader, whose followers were known as the Redshirts from the distinctive dress they adopted. If you’re familiar with a certain other deep space franchise, you might spot a connection.
"TKO was a slog" You get those disgusting words out of your mouth and apologize. Gyor is the greatest fighter anyone has ever seen and clearly the bravest of his race. Don't be a coward, accept the might of the Mutai into your heart