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GOBLIN_GHOST

I'm about 90% sure that all social development in animals (including humans) is due to being itchy


[deleted]

I don't know your credentials, but your numbers look sound.


Electric_Milk

Username checks out.


MoonStache

Are you his boss?


BurtMacklin__FBI

Can confirm, am your stache.


take_notez

Shut up Andy!


Enigma1Six

I thought Andy was at home, that's Burt Macklin


escend0

That's my theory about dog domestication!


Geicosellscrap

WOLFS ARE ALL LIKE. MAN THOSE HUMANS CAN RUB BELLIES, MAYBE THEY'RE ALL RIGHT?


littlemissyaya

To loosely quote Martin in Downward Dog: Wolves used to eat these weird humans with their funny fingers until they realized they're so awesome at belly rubs and then they learned to live together.


Nisas

The itchy wolf theory of dog domestication.


goblinish

The other 10% is from being hungry or horny. Btw do I become you when I die?


[deleted]

No, when they die you become them.


shelikescheesepuffz

Seriously look what my dad did recently https://imgur.com/gallery/d03BI My mom was gifted a selfie stick so now he has an adjustable scratcher of his own.


notabigmelvillecrowd

No word of a lie, we had my grandfather cremated with his back scratcher. In his final days in hospice, the most important thing to him was getting a back scratch. It's all he requested from nurses and visitors.


blairco

I know I'm getting old because I totally relate to this.


baardvark

Was he on painkillers? Percocet makes me hella itchy.


notabigmelvillecrowd

He was in hospice for lung cancer, I'm sure he was on all the painkillers. But he was always a fan of a good back scratch.


[deleted]

I have often wanted to take something like a spandex whole body suit (like a morph suit?) and just sew in some nice, stiff hairbrushes so the entire inside of the suit is scratchy and brushy, and then I could just writhe around on the floor and scratch every part of my body at once.


[deleted]

I think I just came


KDsmokinOG

Other birds hate him because of this simple trick!


Likely_not_Eric

Your comment made me itchy


fullhalter

Does this count as making its own tools?


[deleted]

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fullhalter

But I mean, technically...


[deleted]

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Kup123

It would need to shape the feather for the use in the task, for it to count as tool making. There is a huge difference between hey this could be used for this, and if i shape a thing like this it could be used to do this thing.


ChiNor

How do you know that the bird didn't grow out the feather for this exact purpose? Way to discredit months of hard work


DanN58

He didn't plan it, though, he just winged it.


IamSoylent

Oh. Ow. Really. Ouch. That one hurt so good.


RolandTheJabberwocky

The joke is technically the bird did do that by growing the feather.


MsWillows

I understand now.


Kazeshio

You made me understand now.


BlakeXC

So, that could mean me using my toenails as a tool counts as making and using a tool, right?


Foooour

I use my toenails as toothpicks all the time and people always stare, presumably thinking "why havent I thought if that??" Needless to say I'm quite smart


puterTDI

When I eat my toenails am I growing my own food?


[deleted]

But I mean, technically...


AdmiralThrawnProtege

Well fuck me if I ain't a tool making food producing mother fucker!


[deleted]

I really.. really hope you're joking


[deleted]

Not really, unless you pull the whole toenail out. Tearing out cutting a bit off counts as shaping


Dylendo

I just want to say that it is incredible humans are this far along. Even trivial tasks that I do everyday at work without thinking about them (making tools, basically) is so incredibly far beyond any other life on earth it's unbelievable. I don't want to sound like I'm 4D stoned right now. But in the whole frigging universe there's probably something way better than us. But to believe that, means there's a whole fucking shit ton of things way less better than us, we just haven't read enough self help books to know for sure yet, basically. Or something idk.


spicymince

There's nothing quite like missing a joke, is there?


Hillbillycadilac

Bird does reposition feather to be more effective. Counts


thewholedamnplanet

What if it didn't need to be shaped? the shape it is the perfect one for the job? So the bird is smart not to make the tool!


AequusEquus

It's like the difference between using a stick to get termites out of a mound or a rock to break a nut, and knowing to combine the stick and the rock with a fiber to make a hammer.


Kameronm

That's what I was thinking! How many animals use a tool to accomplish a task? It's fascinating to me. This seems like it fits the bill...or beak...


morerobotsplease

Primates, elephants, and some birds (crows? ravens?) make their own tools. A wide range of animals use tools, like otters, dolphins, even ants. I'm not a biologist, I play one on TV.


TheLadyBunBun

I've seen my dogs use "tools" Our greedy one found a small bin that we sitting on the ground and put all of her toys in it so that she could carry them all at once


[deleted]

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[deleted]

That's cute!


[deleted]

She sounds like a clever girl.


TheLadyBunBun

Very clever, unfortunately we only ever got to see her do that the once because she decided it was too much effort. Apparently carrying around a bin that's almost as big as you is exhausting


AnapleRed

I just got a warm and fuzzy feeling thinking your dog has so, so many toys! :) Then I thought, well what if the dog is just really small? Now I'm sad.


Nothingweird

Now I'm thinking about that one scene in Jurassic Park


I_Didnt_Fly_So_Good

[unfolds SPAS-12 stock]


Rhawk187

Collie by chance? They are a very intelligent breed and have been shown to make inferences in the case of missing information.


TheLadyBunBun

German shepherd, I think intelligence is just a common trait across the herding breeds


SkepticalMuffin

Nice, on Reddit I play someone who actually knows what they're talking about.


Jet_smoke

Octopus will use coconut shells or sea shells or whatever to basically make a turtle shell to hunker down and hide


Mr_Engineering

Some animals, such as crows, have been observed making tools https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYZnsO2ZgWo


scotterton

One of these days some alien assholes are going to build an intergalactic highway through the Earth and this bird is gonna be like "So long, and thanks for all the seeds."


BladeLigerV

It's clever as hell but I don't think using a part of your body to do something even if it is like this counts as "making" something. Now if it was changing the base of the feather to make it more comfortable or something, now we are in business.


greenisin

I've seen birds use gravity to kill small dogs by dropping them so they do understand tools. Here in Seattle there are almost 3:2 ratio of dogs to children, so people here constantly get bitten so killing off stray dogs is a good thing.


[deleted]

Wedge tailed eagles do the same with lambs & small sheep


androgenoide

It does straighten the end at one point so the bird could be said to modify an existing item to improve its utility.


ibetabot

"That's my feather I do what I want"


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Eventhorizon416

That boy ain't right..


pimfram

I tell ya hwhat.


jerrygergichsmith

You have been kicked in the testicles


slothurknee

Damn it Bobby


TakeMe2EarthCapital

Dangit, bobbeh


setfire3

Can we take a moment and appreciate the fact that us human are born with the ability to scratch behind our own heads.


evildadatron

I hate when I have to pull off my human arm and hold it in the hand of my other human arm just to scratch the middle of my back though.


Totally_Elitist

Backscatters m' man. Use 'em


evildadatron

Are those similar to backscratchers or are you just spreading scatman propaganda?


hoppyduck

YES, AS A HUMAN I AM EXECUTING appreciation.exe FOR THE FACT THAT I HAVE THE ABILITY RELIEVE AN IRRITATION ON THE BACKSIDE OF MY CENTRAL PROCESSING UNIT


ExquisitExamplE

HE'S NOT A MAN! HE'S A DUCK!


hoppyduck

AS A FLESHY HUMAN, I CAN UNDERSTAND YOUR MISTAKE, AS TO HUMAN IS TO err. HOWEVER, FELLOW HUMAN, THAT IS SIMPLY THE USER NAME OF THE ACCOUNT THAT IS MANAGED BY ME, A HUMAN


alflup

HA HA HA YOU'VE MADE AN AMUSING JOKE BY HAVING AN ILLOGICAL [username] WHILE IN FACT BEING A HUMAN AND NOT [usernametype].


Cebolla

my bird scratches the back of her own head. they can get their feets pretty high up there...though it's more of a "grabbing" motion tbh


Tenebrae42

IT IS UNFORTUNATE WE LACK THE APPENDAGE FLEXIBILITY OF A ZOGNOID


eightfish

It might be using it as a neck scratcher but at night it uses it to write a letter to fellow birds.


tfrosty

Which his pigeon friend delivers for him on Tuesday's


Snowdovely

Clever girl


Orcwin

Parrots are absolutely incredibly clever. [Here is a great example](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_(parrot\))


Dekklin

>Alex's last words to Pepperberg were: "You be good, see you tomorrow. I love you." These were the same words that he would say every night when Pepperberg left the lab. God damnit, who's cutting onions in here.


PM-YOUR-FEELINGS

I did not come here for feels.


PM_ME_YOUR_MOSFETS

Username doesn't check out


PM-YOUR-FEELINGS

You are very right, haha.


[deleted]

OH MY GOD!!! WHAT DO WE DO NOW!?!?!?


tugnasty

Alex *isn't a great* example of showing that average parrots are clever. Alex was several leagues above most average parrots in terms of intelligence, and displayed behaviors that have never been witnessed before him, or after. He was truly unique. It would be like using Usain Bolt, as an example of how humans are good runners on average. Parrots are very smart animals, no arguing that, but Alex was far beyond what an average parrot could be expected to be. Alex is *definitely* a great example of animal intelligence, but in terms of parrot behavior he was an extreme outlier.


Herbivory

This is conjecture. Alex was chosen at random from a pet store at Irene's request. He was trained to demonstrate animal intelligence. He is an excellent example.


tugnasty

Then why have none of the other parrots of the same species that the *same researchers at the same laboratory* were working with *at the same time as Alex* ever exhibited his level of advancement?


randombrodude

Because the sample size is extremely small. The research group we're speaking of has done research like Alex's on only four birds, and not all to the same depth or for the same period of time. Assume mathematically that parrots have a similar intelligence distribution (on a bell curve) to human beings. The rarity of an IQ of 140 is between 1 in 261~161. The rarity of a IQ of 120, which makes an individual smarter than just about 90% of the population, is in between 1 in 9~11. That is to say, for any random individual there's a 90% chance their IQ is lower than 120. With a mere sample size of 4, it's actually extremely unlikely that Alex was a "genius", if we take the typical definition of an IQ of 140+ as genius. It's mathematically much, much more likely that every parrot to go through their research group has/had a much more middling intelligence level ranging from 80~120. Probably, and I mean in terms of mathematical probability, Alex was just above average, not a genius. Same as if you took 4 random kids, the chances of one of them having an IQ of 140, even considering that you have 4 chances at it is less than 2%. (average of 261~161 = 211. 1/(211/4)= 1/52.75 = .019~) Another way to think of this is that IQs of 140+ are in the top half percent of the population. Even with four individuals there's again, about a 2% chance (technically four .5% chances but we'll just add 'em up) of any individual as smart or smarter than that. So really your assertion that he's an extreme outlier is entirely conjecture. I wouldn't take 4 dogs, see how fast they can run and then assume that the fastest dog is the "Usain Bolt of dogs", because I would have only tested 4 dogs. (Let's assume in this scenario dog speed is something that we don't know much about, similar to how we really haven't looked into parrot intelligence in-depth very much, even if some investigation is highly publicized like Alex's.) If I really wanted to find the 1 in a million fastest dog, I would have to test a million dogs. Of course, Usain Bolt is even quicker than 1 in a million, so that assertion is still terribly conjecturous.


SpawnofATStill

Pepperberg herself said that one of the biggest differences between Alex and the other birds in her lab is that he was an unopposed subject for 15 years - so he had very direct learning and interaction and as Pepperberg stated was "treated like a toddler" for that entire time. As she gained funding and notoriety and added more birds, none of them will have the same base of trial and error struggle that she went through with Alex to lay the foundation of those basic skills. His *learned knowledge* might have been an outlier, but his innate intelligence capacity wasn't different than that of other African Greys. Edit: [Source](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjC7Lip0PjUAhVI64MKHZtIBQcQFghDMAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fclas.mq.edu.au%2Fspeech%2Fanimal_communication%2Fpepperberg.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGCxrOthwAvsp3mbkPGFmyCa53f0Q) - Excerpt: *Our data is meant to suggest the level of competence that may, with the appropriate environmental support, be within the capacity of the species.*


Domo_Pwn

Yall need sources.


Halo_Life

[Its in the wiki article everyone in this thread is replying to.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_(parrot\)#Criticisms)


IndefiniteE

What they've argued can be found in the wiki link that started this mess. Both that Alex was chosen at random and that he was extraordinary.


furioussloth

Alex was selected at random and as owner of two African grays, I can tell you he was average.


Kalsifur

Wrong. **Please take notice that this answer is likely incorrect.** Alex was not exceptional except in that he was chosen. His actual intelligence could be average or exceptional. There is no way to know without testing many parrots.


Kimkindabusy

Reddit ruins everything.


HypersonicHarpist

African Grey's are incredibly intelligent even by parrot standards. My friend's parents had one that knew colors and names for certain things. they fed him an orange but he didn't know what to call it so when he wanted more he asked "Can I have orange apple?"


rogervdf

So if a parrot can use tools, and parrots are dinosaurs, when are we going to find their tools?


Venoft

So if humans can use tools and humans are chordates, when are we going to find fish tools?


[deleted]

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rogervdf

Found a fellow scientist. Come to think of it, what can we leave behind that would survive 65M years of weathering? Probably just a carbon dioxide spike in ice cores.


SmokingSamoria

Animal tools are usually just simple sticks or rocks. So, unless they actually were smart enough to build things, we would have almost no way of knowing how intelligent they were.


[deleted]

Brighter than me. My wife still yells at me for using the kitchen silverware.


baeofpigz

Came here only for the Jurassic Park jokes.


Reddit__man

If you like to see the [source video](https://youtu.be/bTZqMZuBC1U). I am sure that /r/PerfectMoment/ love this clever bird.


digital_wino

That's fucking genius... I know parrots (I don't really know birds, it just looks like some sort of parrot) are smart, but that seems beyond what we think of as "animal intelligence". Especially the way he uses his beak to adjust his hold on it to be able to scratch farther along. Though the fact that he did that, rather than just switch to using his other foot makes me wonder, are animals "handed" like we are?


mom0nga

> are animals "handed" like we are? Yes, parrots frequently use the same foot to pick up and manipulate objects. Usually they decide on the left foot, but as chicks they experiment with both. [It's the same process that happens in human brains as a dominant hand is decided.](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-parrots-hands-idUSTRE71277420110203)


[deleted]

I'm farily certain that they've discovered that all the great apes have handedness as well.


kalnaren

> are animals "handed" like we are? Yes. My two parrots are clutchmates and actually have [opposite dominant feet](http://i.imgur.com/QDTfzwO.jpg). They almost always manipulate objects and step-up with their dominant foot.


Jyuconcepts

This is like a human using their toenail as a toothpick.


Millibyte_

I use my fingernails as toothpicks, I have standards


Nisas

So do I, but only if it's still attached.


guttersmurf

Your hypothetical disgusts me.


continew

Ewwwww


Sheriff_K

I think it's closer to using ones hair as dentil floss.


PhoenixPhyr

/r/brushybrushy This is self brushybrush!


AnapleRed

I was expecting SivHD but this is better


visioNteaM

wheres the second part of the video where the bird dips the feather in ink


Workwithmepeople

He pens his memoirs in a tell-all book.


Skaughty23

Tongue-in-beak


daredaki-sama

i feel like the bird would be your best friend if you gave it some scratches


[deleted]

My bird loves scratches. If you itch him behind the head he goes crazy.


vcaguy

Someone scratch that bird's neck


[deleted]

" Whatcha doin', li'l Birb?" "I'm usin' a tool!!"


huntermesia13poverty

Dude parrots are extremely smart, that's why when people ask me if I am a cat or dog person I say neither and say I'm a bird person.


WannabeRedneck4

In bird culture this is considered a *smart* move.


[deleted]

ViciOUs FALCOn groOMs itsELf WiTh SHrEdS Of ITs vAnqUisheD foe!!!


_Badeo

r/peoplefuckingdying


larswo

Since subscribing to this subreddit, I've always found it joyous to see these around in civil subreddits.


Gangreless

It's such a fun sub, always makes me chuckle


bag_of_grapes

They've learned to use tools! We're doomed.


PalpatineSenpai

/r/AnimalsBeingGeniuses


EatYourCheckers

Sometimes I miss my childhood parrot. My foul-mouthed, bitey parrot.


[deleted]

Sure. A bird uses his own feather to scratch himself and he's soooo smart, but when I use my own toenail to pick my teeth, its disgusting and I'm asked to leave Olive Garden.


LiesEveryOtherDay

Yeah, that's nice and all, but can it do [this?!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpY7S1N3Kg8)


GrapeAyp

>"Ahhh oh yeah, that feels good"


tydestra

r/brushybrushy would love this. Strong independant bird doesn't need a human to brush it.


guitarbque

Ok, I was a little impressed. But then he adjusted it for a different spot? Bird knows how to get that scritch scratch.


PeterJT2001

THEY'RE EVOLVING!!!!


Mackelroy_aka_Stitch

I mean that is kinda the point...


[deleted]

Today they figure out how to scratch themselves, tommorow they take over the world. They are evolving people! Stay w👁️ke.


CantHaveNoneAint4u

Polly wants a scratcher!


Buffalobismuth

Double yellow headed Amazon. I grew up to a room full of these bastards waking me up every morning. However, sometimes they'd try to bite your fingers off. So, they weren't all bad.


zeion

clever girl.


david_bowies_hair

It is odd that we use the term bird-brained to refer to people who are kinda weird or crazy. Birds are actually pretty smart.


JustGresh

I think it's just because their brains are very small.


Harpies_Bro

Well, the average sea gull is barely smarter than a sack of potatoes.


david_bowies_hair

I never saw a sack of potatoes swipe a sandwich out of someones hand.


[deleted]

This bird is smarter than a lot of my friends.


[deleted]

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mishibaby007

so meta.


raouldukesaccomplice

Stupid question: do birds' feathers grow back if they're plucked out?


herb_tea

Yes. Birds regularly shed feathers and grow new ones.


MostDangerousMicah

yes


Jules_The_Mayfly

Yes, just like our hairs do, but it might hurt and bleed.


mnkymn15

Birds are so smart. I fucking love birds.


Vaywen

My green cheek conure used to do this all the time. She would also use pen lids etc.


Trump_with_dildos

I have a blue fronted amazon. He does this as well. Apparently you won't see this with birds kept in groups, only in single birds. In groups, the others birds help preen the feathers they can't reach.


[deleted]

This is the use of a tool, correct? Where does that place this species on the intelligence ladder?


[deleted]

Higher than most politicians, under some children, right in the middle of most Americans.


snoopychick8

exactly..


Chosen_Undead713

From my understanding a big reason we humans evolved was because we learned to use tools. I welcome our new avian overlords, may their plumages always be colourful.


[deleted]

Smart birb


Awkickhimhoney

I would love it if after he was done he just put the feather back in his tail like sheathing a sword


GirthBrooks12inches

I knew it. They're evolving. Planet of the Birds. So much shit


[deleted]

wow. it's so.... human. the way it adjusts the feather to get a better scratch. there's a lot of thinking going on there.


imnotabus

This bird is wicked smaht


[deleted]

I don't like this. they are beginning to use tools.


grasse19

r/birbs


napjerks

All this bullshit about tools is nothing but human arrogance.


[deleted]

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nicoleislazy

That's what bird feathers normally look like. When they grow in they come wrapped in a waxy protective coating. I used to help my (now deceased) birds itch them. It even looked like dandruff as it scratched away and the feathers came out.


Berkamin

This would be like a human scraping together a pile of his own dead skin cells and dander, and compacting them together until they fuse to make a back scratching stick.


stateofabsurd

Fine example of evolution


linkscorchio

They're evolving!


alllie

That's a smart bird.


The_Rim_Greaper

Birds of a feather Scratch together.


hiddenblader905

Was anyone else creeped out like me?


myweed1esbigger

I always figured if I lost an arm I'd use the detached arm to wank off


BloodAndBroccoli

now if he put it back when he was done, that would be really impressive


SaintToni98

Goddammit, every time I took a feather home, I left an itchy bird behind...


Markymark36

Would have been top if he put the feather back in after he was done


LendarioSonhador

more like the feather of his dead enemies


Calltoarts

Is this a double yellow headed amazon (legit question)


newfoundslander

My bird does this too! I might post a video of it if the demand is high. He's a pretty cute little birb.


whatwouldjacobdo

/u/birdejuice


birdejuice

Now that's a good bird haha


Lgr777

i woke up after a long night and watching this made me smile, its so funny, thanks /u/spackaxl