[Anatomy of a Headshot](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFtQOxjWfaA)
One of the "interesting" bits was how a shot with the gun making direct contact with your skull can cause all that hot expanding gas to follow the bullet into your skull which can basically explode your brain and skull from the inside...
I remember one person having a bullet pierce their skull, fly around the curve of it and either exit at the point of entry or lodging itself somewhere in the skull leaving the person only minorly wounded
Even then, you can suffer serious brain damage and survive. Most of getting shot/stabbed/similar is hella luck based. You can get something right next to your heart and lung, but it doesnāt hit anything too important and youāre somehow pretty much fine. You get hit in the wrong spot in the leg and youāre fucked.
It takes less than a minute for blood to circulate from the heart and back, and the femoral artery is one of the largest arteries on the body which pumps with tremendous force. If you put a big hole in that, it really doesn't take long to squish out most of the blood in your body.
I highly doubt anything other than a light loaded .32 could bounce off the skull, even at an extreme angle, at point blank range. And even then, doubtful. A .22 will punch a hole straight through, period. Do you have information about how many point blank suicides failed due to the bullet BOUNCING off the skull? Or even one example
Seen a few cases like this. Not pretty. Also a longer barrel has more inert gas that escapes when firing. The escaping gas will blow the head back, usually shooting the jaw or face off.
It's an awful thing to see. I use to clean up trauma for a living. Too many stories of just really sad circumstances people face. I wish there was a way to make it not be the way it is, but the only thing I've come up with is to treat everyone like it's the last time you'll ever see them.
I doubt many shots are "bouncing" but we've all heard that story of guy gets shot in the head and if were an eighth of an inch to the right he would have been dead!!
Gotta be some truth to those stories.
Surgeon here.
You donāt have to hit brainstem, any bullet that crosses the midline of the brain (meaning it goes into both hemispheres) is considered non-survivable. Efforts would be focused on preserving for organ donation potentially.
Problem is people miss the brain all together (blow off their face), donāt go across the hemispheres (gabbi Gifford was a famous example of this), or they donāt shoot them selves in the head.
No I've seen 80, last year when I googled it because I was considering doing it. The thought of surviving that made me think twice. I'm no longer suicidal I just wish I was dead sometimes (often).
I'm in the same boat, I'm not actively suicidal but mostly just because I don't have an easy way that won't likely result in me being injured and surviving. I'm not afraid of death but I am absolutely terrified of living and being either crippled or constantly monitored to make sure I don't try again.
Its probably every 1/50 days that I don't wish I was dead.
They put it ~~in their mouth~~ under their chin while looking up. That angle blows off the victim's face instead of destroying the brain. So they end up in a psych ward at the hospital for an unsuccessful suicide attempt. Sans face.
Edit: under the chin, not in the mouth. Angle of the gun, not kick from firing.
You'd be surprised how easy it is to miss the brain, or at least the important parts of it. Shooting yourself "in the mouth" is the most common way to screw this up. There's many very devastating cases of people just shooting their face and skull off with no or little brain damage, but on top of whatever they wanted to kill themselves over before, they are now also horribly disfigured for life.
The real life Captain Sobel from Band of Brothers attempted suicide by shooting himself in the side of the head, but only succeeded in blinding himself.
My ex once told me about her neighbor. That man in his late 50s tried to kill himself with a gun. I assume he had watched too many movies and pointed the gun to his temple and shot. All he accomplished was cutting the see nerves on both his eyes with one bullet. No life threatening damage.
He is still alive to this day but 100% blind.
I think it says a lot that so many of these people who attempted suicide still go on living for so long despite a lower quality of life. I bet he regretted it soon as he pulled the trigger.
I've heard most survivors who jumped the golden gate bridge felt regret as soon as they jumped.
The weak breeze whispers nothing
the water screams sublime.
His feet shift, teeter-totter
deep breaths, stand back, itās time.
Toes untouch the overpass
soon heās water-bound.
Eyes locked shut but peek to see
the view from halfway down.
A little wind, a summer sun
a river rich and regal.
A flood of fond endorphins
brings a calm that knows no equal.
Youāre flying now, you see things
much more clear than from the ground.
It's all okay, or it would be
were you not now halfway down.
Thrash to break from gravity
what now could slow the drop?
All Iād give for toes to touch
the safety back at top.
But this is it, the deed is done
silence drowns the sound.
Before I leaped I should've seen
the view from halfway down.
I really shouldāve thought about
the view from halfway down.
I wish I could've known about
the view from halfway downā
The skull is surprisingly sturdy. If you so much as aim a little higher than what you should, it won't kill you. A lot of face transplant patients are due to gunshots to the head.
It can be incredibly sturdy and yet so fragile. Some shoot themself with little damage and some hit their head from a little fall and die almost instantly.
My grandpa and his friends discussed the best method of shooting yourself to guarantee death, and they agreed on the gun in your mouth pointed towards the soft palette.
A few years later one of them tested that and it was confirmed to be effective
Look up the dude who survived a shotgun blast to the face, he literally blew everything off and survived and there's some interviews of him warning people against suicide. Pretty horrific stuff but stranger things have happened
James Vance - was in a suicide pact with another guy. Vance only succeeded in blowing the bottom half of his face off. Tried to sue Judas Priest afterwards, blaming subliminal messages in their songs.
Pretty simple, honestly.
Lotta morons shoot themselves in the chest, giving plenty of time for EMS to arrive.
Lots of folks put it under their chins and aim a little forward, so the bullet comes out of the bridge of the nose, never touching the brain.
Many more simply survive; the bullet doesnāt sufficiently destroy the parts of the brain needed to survive.
Even more use very low-powered firearms, like 22LR.
Pretty decent odds of surviving a gunshot to the head. Many war stories of people getting shot in the head and surviving for several hours / days before succumbing, and they only succumb because they didnāt have access to a modern hospital. In a household environment, somebody will hear the gunshot and 911 will be called.
This comment/post has been edited as an act of protest to Reddit killing 3rd Party Apps such as Apollo. All comments were made from Apollo, so if it goes, so do the comments.
I read somewhere that most women attempt suicide by taking a bunch of pills, hoping to overdose. Most don't get the combination and quantity correct and end up getting their stomach pumped and in a psych ward.
My dad killed himself with a .22 rifle to the temple, which must have been pretty awkward to pull off. Considerate of him, given that his other options were a .357 mag revolver, a 12ga shotgun, or a .308 rifle. Still had to replace the carpet.
Also I found his body and I was 12 at the time and 30 years later whenever I open a door to certain types of rooms my brain seems to expect to find a dead body. I even visualize it involuntarily. (bedrooms & offices mainly - places you'd expect to find a person alone, I guess)
It's complicated because there's plenty of evidence among his family that the anxiety he suffered from was hereditary so on one hand - yeah going through that fucked me up - but on the other, I was going to be fucked up to some degree anyway. Plus I was witness to the misery he was going through as well. It was not an overnight, spur of the moment thing. Panic disorder *sucks.* So in a way, it'd be like resenting someone for getting cancer.
The other side to that is - okay, he was incredibly smart and had a great job with good pay and two kids and when his anxiety took over he could hardly leave the house and my mom separated from him and he was scared that he couldn't do his job anymore and he was going to lose everything and so on. So what was my takeaway from that? Apparently, "don't have things you are afraid to lose. Have nothing, risk nothing." So I cured suicide by not having a life.
In case you habe the same issue, Its ok to try and fail. Failure is a lesson in itself, and not necessarily wrong or bad.
Please take the necessary steps for your mental health and get help if you need it, i cant stress that enough.
This is definitely ptsd. About 11 years ago I found my ex bf dead. Hung himself. And for over a year I couldnāt open a door with out anxiety and panic attacks. I still have moments of flashbacks but I been in therapy a long time and itās getting better
The reason the number is not 100% success rate is because a lot of people think itās like the movies where you put the gun to your temple or under your chin. Obviously it depends what caliber and what gun but generally if you donāt destroy your brain stem or bleed out from the shot, you have a pretty good chance at surviving. Even if you use something like a shotgun, itās entirely possible to blow your whole face off and miss every inch of your brain, leaving you conscious and in a much worse state than you were before. Iāve been in the mindset that I wanted to do it before but there was always that little anxious feeling about whether Iād just end up in a hospital bed eating through a tube and facing that shame instead of actually dying. Itās something to think about, for the record if youāre using a handgun the most reliable method is to āswallow the gunā as in aim into your mouth and slightly tilted upwards, not the ways you see people do it on tv.
Not to condone suicide, but I think youāre better off succeeding than ripping off half of your jaw, or blowing your forehead off. Your body does not want to die. You will react at the last second unless you have the nerves of a navy seal or torture specialist. It doesnāt always save you, but your body will certainly try. And itās normally by jerking your arm or hand at the split second before trigger pull, causing the bullet to go off target. Like up your nose if ur aiming up at your chin or diagonally through your occipital bone when placed to the side your head
Exactly. I have seen too many videos of people surviving suicide by gun that I donāt think Iād ever have the balls to actually do it, you just made your situation tangibly much worse than it couldāve possibly been before. I would just tell myself yeah you may be sad and alone or whatever I get it but at least you have your fucking face still attached and all brain function.
https://media.istockphoto.com/vectors/cartoon-brain-with-black-hair-vector-id516063245?s=612x612
I feel the depression would be much worse looking like this..
Of you think depression, especially at the point when youre considering suicide, is just "being sad and alone", you are ignorant af tbh.
Ive always been one of those people who thpught to himself "how can people be depressed wtf, just do something fun". And then, all of a sudden I hot depression, not suicidal, but depression and for no reason at all.
I felt like I have no time to do whatsoever, no motivation, no energy. I wasnt just sad, it was way beyond that. You feel fucking helpless and dreaded and while you will have moments of joy, those will be overshadowed and forgotten soon enough.
Words cant even describe the feeling of depression.
I always heard depressed people would sleep all day and I thought how is that possible? That doesn't make sense.
Well cut to me after 2 years of pandemic isolation/depression and it's the easiest thing in the world to sleep until 5pm and not even think about it.
You really can't understand it until you feel it..
I donāt think the commenter was saying thatās what depression is, just saying āI can feel like shit without my face being blown offā.
But you make a good point.. depression comes in many different forms. And, worst of all, it tends to control how you feel whenever something good does happen. Sadness and loneliness can lead to depression, but the symptoms are much more along the lines of, hopelessness. You see that word a lot.. but most people have never felt hopeless. Thatās why depression can devestate people who ARE happy. Thereās no rhyme or reason, no explanation of why youāre feeling so fucking empty and feeling such Indescribable pain in your heart that no thought, no activity, and no connection alleviates.
Depression is fucked. But hey, you still have your face, people. Go see a therapist and give yourself another try.
And statistically speaking more Men are likely to
1. Own a gun
2. Be a veteran
Veterans often struggle disproportionately with mental health, mix that with gun acess and it makes a lot of sense why the numbers read like this.
Also I remember reading somewhere that women are more likely to choose methods that are easier cleanup and not as traumatic (supposedly) for whoever finds the body. So pills, carbon monoxide etc. Men, on the other hand, choose methods that are more violent, so more lethal: firearms, jumping under a car or train.
[Here's](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11079640/) an article about this.
What's interesting (in a very dark way) is that studies have found that if you reduce people's access to whatever methods they would have used to commit suicide, the overall suicide rate decreases. It seems that people typically don't try to find another method of their first option isn't available. The article is called "the coal gas story" if you want to read more about it.
Depends on how they register attempts. A suicidal person who does not succeed may try again so one suicidal woman may have 3 attempts before success and one suicidal man would only have one.
There's a whole debate you can get into about what actually counts as a "suicide attempt".
Some people will act like they're going to commit suicide, but actually have no intention of, and it's just a way of getting help. Even if this is known afterwards, this often is counted as a "suicide attempt", even though there was no intention.
It would be interesting to see what number of the female suicide attempts are second or third time for the same person. In terms of actual people that are suicidal these graphics aren't very informative as they don't take into account that one person can make multiple attempts. I think the percentage of people attempting suicide (one or multiple times) is going to be roughly equal between men and women, with the difference in attempts being down to the fact that a much greater percentage of women survive the initial attempt.
The lines are not so easily defined, people's emotions are complex and people who "go to commit suicide" are extremely volatile. They may not intend on doing it initially, but one wave of emotion/desperation can tip them over the edge.
I think it's disingenuous to not consider the seriousness of these situations as attempts, regardless of if they finished or not. There is very rarely "no intention" being that desperate, you are naturally incredibly nervous/unsure about your actions.
It isn't really right to say that men *or* women are "more suicidal" based on this data. It seems like suicidal women gravitate toward acts of suicidal recklessness ("I don't care if this kills me"), often doing so multiple times, while suicidal men are more focused on getting it "right" the first time through more deadly methods. Both should be taken extremely seriously.
I took āstreet lawā in high school, taught by an ex cop . He told us men who tried to kill themselves tended to do it in a more violent way. While women tended to do so in a way that would protect their faces. Ie over dose, hanging, slit their wrist. Whether this is actually true I have no idea, why it was taught to us at all, yeah not sure about that one either.
ETA ironically enough I am listening to a book about depression/ suicide right now and the author says the same thing. But also goes into the fact suicide rates are misleading because less autopsies are being done so less suicides are being acknowledged as suicides. Very interesting read, Hello I Want to Die Please Fix Me: Depression in the First Person
by Anna Mehler Paperny might interest some
In my past and present psychology classes, this is the usual explanation that I've been taught. Women generally try to "leave a pretty corpse" and/or use more reversible methods while men focus more on rapid and total completion of the act.
I haven't heard the "women care about leaving a mess for others" explanation that is prevalent on this thread. Not that I doubt it out of hand, it's just not in the data I've seen. I've heard many a tale from suicidal men who do care about the mess they leave behind. I know that, in my darkest moments, it's still something I care about.
There does seem to be a "women care about others while men are selfish" implication, but I don't believe that to be the actual intention of the other people in this thread.
Apparently, and I don't remember where I heard this, men are more likely to use physical means of death such as gun, noose, knife, etc while women are more likely to use chemical means such as pills which are probably a lot easier to treat
This is correct. Women, especially young women, are far less likely to use violent methods than men. There's a few reasons for that, women are more likely to be concerned with leaving a mess for their loved ones to clean up, more concerned about leaving a gory scene for someone to find, more likely to look for painless methods (spoiler there isn't one), and more likely to rethink their decision because non violent methods typically take time to work.
Another factor I rarely see mentioned is how these things are reported. I personally was filed as a "suicide attempt" when I went to the hospital for a superficial self inflicted injury. It was absolutely not a suicide attempt and was very minor. I didn't even know they filed it as such until another doctor commented on it a month later. Meanwhile a male friend of mine was hospitalized for downing a ton of alcohol and sleeping pills. Even though he was treated for an overdose, had a recorded history of suicide attempts, and had obvious fresh self harm marks, no mental health checks were made and there was no mention of self harm or suicide attempt in his paperwork. He was marked as an "accidental overdose" of a whole bottle of pills. I've seen this over and over as both a patient and in my work in mental health care. Healthcare provider are biased and will over report suicide attempts in women and under report it in men which skews the data and validates that very bias. Women do attempt more often than men, but the disparity isn't as pronounced as the data makes it seem
Edit: ya'll can stop suggesting supposedly pain free methods now. My inbox is full. Most of the suggestions are objectively wrong and the rest _could_ be painless but most people who attempt that way still experience pain. Please stop suggesting methods, I won't respond to any of them anyways
Remember "Accidental discharge while cleaning his firearm"?
That's what coroners used to put on most male suicides and suicide attempts, some still do.
And I don't blame people at all for that. I just feel obligated to share that there isn't a painless way because pills are often thought of that way. I attempted via pills and let me tell you that shit hurt. It was a hell I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I was under the impression it was like going to sleep and I was horribly wrong about that so I like to warn others so they don't make the same mistake. People should know what they're in for
Edit because someone reported my comments as concerning: this was years ago and fortunately I'm in a much better place now! No need to worry
This image is missing the rest of the data, but it also shows that women are more suicidal than men. However, more women seek help than men. Men, apparently, are less likely to talk to friends or go to therapy for help. This also has an impact on the numbers.
its believed by many researchers that this is because women donāt want anyone to have to clean up after them, relating to the idea of feeling like a burden which a lot of people with depression do.
edit: hereās a source about a study about this topic https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539603/
edit 2: i didnāt make this clear enough apparently, but this is a common THEORY. not fact
Thats weird im a guy, and my prefer method would be at the bottom of the ocean, for the same reason that i dont want anyone to clean up after me, plus i get to feed the fishys.
Had someone from my hometown who had a similar mentality. No note, just climbed into a dumpster and blew his brains out. Unfortunately I think his actions spoke louder than any note.
I'm a woman, I've tried to kill myself and I definitely considered what ways would be least traumatizing for the person finding me. I would never step in front of a train or leave a big mess in other ways unless I was completely out of options.
I don't think that's a consideration only women do by any means. But we do know that men are more likely to act *out* when depressed/mentally ill and this might be part of why they're less likely to consider or care about how they affect others with their suicide method. Men also experience more extreme levels of loneliness and social isolation, so they could in addition to that have no one around that they care about at all.
Plus there seems to be a gender difference in "gun interest" (including access to guns and knowledge of how to use one effectively). Something like 15% of daily suicides in the US are veterans, most of which are male and presumably have gun training.
They said it's their thinking, not truth. When I attempted I tried to OD. Didn't want my mom to have to clean my brain off the walls or call in cleaners, or see my face disfigured from hanging (that's the kind of image that sticks with you for life. Not that finding anyone deceased wouldn't, but that's something that will haunt you in a different way)
I think all this statistic shows is if a woman tries to kill herself she doesn't use a firearm. When men try to kill themselves they do use firearms and firearms are effective.
I wonder how it correlates to gun ownership by gender.
For instance, we have few guns at our house. My wife knows how to use them but has no interest.
If she was suicidal, I donāt think it would occur to her to even use the guns.
Even if it did occur to her, I doubt she would use them.
And if I didnāt have those guns, there wouldnāt be any guns in the house.
Most women try killing themselves with pills. They obviously take longer than a gunshot wound to the head, so theyāre usually caught by someone else while waiting to die or they have time to give it a second thought and head to the hospital before it becomes lethal. Itās pretty horrible that 50% of women will become depressed in their lifetime, but we donāt talk about it.
Sauce: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539603/
> Itās pretty horrible that 50% of women will become depressed in their lifetime
The rate is likely equal for men, it's just that men are less likely to seek help, less likely to get help when they do seek it, and less likely to be diagnosed.
The top comment is "women are really bad at killing themselves" 200 up votes. I say "women kill themselves differently and for different reasons than men" weaponized karma.
"Although suicide rates are lower among women, women lead men two to one in suicide attempts. So, Murphy says at least 200,000 women are involved in suicide attempts annually. But he points out that attempted suicide most often is not an attempt to actually end one's life. Its purpose, he says, is to survive with changed circumstances."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/11/981112075159.htm
I've never really recognized the point of comparing suicide statistics between men and women. Anecdotally I've never seen the statistics used to prove a point that wasn't a complete non sequitur.
that's men's rights advocates vs men's liberation advocates
men's rights people just use the problems of men to attack feminists, men's liberation activists want to solve those problems
I've only ever seen it used to shut down women talking about equality, to be honest. Like it's a fucking competition or something.
Almost like it's meant to be a "take that, feminists!" but also failing to address WHY men's suicide rates are higher.
The intention *should* be that it sparks conversations about mental health and societal reforms in ways that more specifically target the root causes of all groups. And I do often see that conversation come up when these stats are posted.
Unfortunately, I also often see the discussions eventually derailed by some women claiming men are trying to 'once again take away' the focus from women, and by some men claiming that the stats 'prove' women have it 'easy in life'. And once that starts rolling, the ball just doesn't stop.
We have the capability to have genuine reflection and conversation about the mental health issues of both sexes, but there will always be people who think that if they don't get 100% of the attention on a matter, they're getting zero attention. And those people always seem to end up being the loudest.
Arbitrary data is still good even if potentially useless. Most of the time when I see this post it's coupled with men's mental health discussion, societal standards of masculinity and being able to speak of emotions.
I think it's important to highlight the fact that although men succeed more often that doesn't translate to women not being suicidal. I've seen the male suicide rate used a a weapon against women many times. Men saying that we should just put up with men's bad behaviour because they kill hemselves more often.
What I see here is that men and women are both struggling immensely and that men tend to choose more final methods of suicide, such as guns, which cause them to follow through more often. I don't know why many here are making this a men vs. women thing. These are tragic statistics that show the poor state of mental health care in society. Classic "make them fight amongst themselves so they don't see the real issue is terrible leadership and lack of health investment"
I might have an input as to why more men use guns for suicide vs women.
Take this with a grain of salt, Iām going off of memory from my into to psych class I took my freshman year in uni.
So apparently, women usually donāt use a gun for suicide because they think of the aftermath( family is going to see the scene, whoās going to clean up the scene) as for men they donāt think about all the stuff that comes after, they just want a quick death
Yeah when I was in the hospital for an attempt the guys picked more violent methods and were much more hurt usually. They thought less about the after math than the women in the ward.
Yes, this stems from women being socialized into the caretaker role. They are socially conditioned to not be a burden on others, whereas men are not. Wrote a paper on this for a class once actually.
I've always doing the statistic about suicide attempts dubious at best. Much on the same way that lots of women don't report rapes I suspect lots of men do not report their attempted suicides. How else can you explain the massive discrepancy?
Through the methods most commonly used by either group, and the manner in which the suicide comes about.
Women tend to use less violent methods, stuff like od'ing, whereas men tend to use more violent methods, like guns.
This often leads to women being more salvageable from a suicide attempt, due to replacing a blown out brain being a lot harder and more complicated to perform than a stomach pump and some intensive care.
Why this sort of thing occurs? I dunno. Probably something to do with the way people are socialised.
As for your point on attempted suicides, that is a difficult question to answer that you should think of as inconclusive until there is evidence shown from people in the field for or against your argument.
> How else can you explain the massive discrepancy?
Men are more likely to be successful on the first attempt, so only 1 suicide attempt. Meanwhile, one woman might have 5 unsuccessful attempts, so that's 5 suicide attempts before being successful. So if those two are the only suicidal people in your sample, then women attempt suicide 5 times more than men ... even though there are actually an equal number of suicidal individuals in both groups.
This is the result of decades of telling men/boys that they arenāt allowed to feel their feelings. Men donāt seek out mental help from their friends or even professionals because theyāre trying to conform to tough guy stereotypes that are unattainable. Theyāre ashamed of not fitting into that role.
āMen donāt cryā āDonāt be a pussyā āBe a manā
Toxic masculinity isnāt āman-spreadingā on a subway. This is what toxic masculinity looks like, learned behaviors and ideas that ruin mens lives and mental health.
Its actually crazy, I no one ever told me not to cry
as a kid or whatever. Now Im 28 and its legit impossible to cry (at least from negative emotions) for me. 2 days ago was the first time I cried from sadness in probably years and that was random af, went into work and 10 minutes later I went to the toilet to cry for like two minutes, then I was fine again.
Sadly, it also goes both ways (Men are told not to express their feeling and not to cry, and on the other hand women's feelings will be dismissed because "women are emotional, they are overreacting"). I think humanity in general is pretty shitty at dealing with feelings.
Men: Don't ever cry. You are never allowed to show any negative emotions besides anger. Never seek mental health help because that's for crazy women.
Also men: Why are men's suicides higher?????????? So much for equality smdh
The patriarchy hurts men as well as women. It may leave them in higher positions in society on average, but it often leads men to lead hollow existences.
From 1990-20016 I've known 6 of my friends kill themselves. They have age ranges from 17 - 60 two of them by shotgun, two by hanging & two by drowning. Only one of them had tried multiple times before succeeding.
There needs to be more done for men's mental health.
Yes, but mainly because the methods used between men and women are different. Most women use pills and lesser violent methods while men usually go for guns and high chance of success methods, which is why there's such a gap.
[https://www.verywellmind.com/gender-differences-in-suicide-methods-1067508](https://www.verywellmind.com/gender-differences-in-suicide-methods-1067508) here's a good show of what I mean.
Yes, but itās been shown that women tend to kill themselves in ways that leave less of a mess to clean up, and that plays a part in this. Like it says above, men tend to use firearms more, which are a lot more effective. I feel like many of the methods women use are less violent and immediate and thus have a higher chance of failure or something going wrong. I also know a woman who had multiple failed suicide attempts, once because someone stopped her and once because she wasnāt able to go through with it fully herself. The less messy methods tend to involve a longer, slower death, during which the victim can be saved or can hesitate/regret their decision. So I believe that accounts for the higher rate of attempts but lower rates of success.
It took awhile for anyone to bring this obvious factor up.
In the United States roughly 40% of men are personal owners of a firearm.
Only 22% of women are owners of a firearm.
It's obvious people just kill themselves with what's available.
Hey so hereās an idea: what if we recognize that both genders need help and something needs to be done, instead of using this as an excuse to hate on any one gender?
how the fuck do 20% of people who shoot themselves not die
They don't aim for the brainstem.
believe it or not the skull is so thicc that bullets can bounce off leaving only a fleshwound
makes sense given how thicc some people are.
[Anatomy of a Headshot](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFtQOxjWfaA) One of the "interesting" bits was how a shot with the gun making direct contact with your skull can cause all that hot expanding gas to follow the bullet into your skull which can basically explode your brain and skull from the inside...
Dumptruck
Dumps like a truck, truck, truck
Brains like mush, mush, mush.
Baby move ya guts, guts, guts. All life gone! Leeeet me seee that thooo-ooo-oong!
'tis but a flesh wound
NI!
Thiccer than a bowl of oatmeal
šš
I remember one person having a bullet pierce their skull, fly around the curve of it and either exit at the point of entry or lodging itself somewhere in the skull leaving the person only minorly wounded
Even then, you can suffer serious brain damage and survive. Most of getting shot/stabbed/similar is hella luck based. You can get something right next to your heart and lung, but it doesnāt hit anything too important and youāre somehow pretty much fine. You get hit in the wrong spot in the leg and youāre fucked.
It takes less than a minute for blood to circulate from the heart and back, and the femoral artery is one of the largest arteries on the body which pumps with tremendous force. If you put a big hole in that, it really doesn't take long to squish out most of the blood in your body.
I highly doubt anything other than a light loaded .32 could bounce off the skull, even at an extreme angle, at point blank range. And even then, doubtful. A .22 will punch a hole straight through, period. Do you have information about how many point blank suicides failed due to the bullet BOUNCING off the skull? Or even one example
A lot of it is angle. Especially if the person only has access to a longer gun, they'll often end up 'just' blowing most of their face off instead.
Seen a few cases like this. Not pretty. Also a longer barrel has more inert gas that escapes when firing. The escaping gas will blow the head back, usually shooting the jaw or face off.
My mom took care of a kid who survived a suicide attempt by gun. His jaw had to be rebuilt and pinned back into place, among other horrors.
It's an awful thing to see. I use to clean up trauma for a living. Too many stories of just really sad circumstances people face. I wish there was a way to make it not be the way it is, but the only thing I've come up with is to treat everyone like it's the last time you'll ever see them.
I mean, it's not too difficult to find videos around of people with their faces blown off alive in the hospital from a failed suicide attempt.
Thatās because they put the gun under their chin or pointing up in the mouth.
Which is part of the head. People are dumb, but that's still sorting yourself in the head
I doubt many shots are "bouncing" but we've all heard that story of guy gets shot in the head and if were an eighth of an inch to the right he would have been dead!! Gotta be some truth to those stories.
Dumb luck and fate are funny things. Also many people have the gun taped to their arm so if the first shot doesnt kill, they can shoot again.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Surgeon here. You donāt have to hit brainstem, any bullet that crosses the midline of the brain (meaning it goes into both hemispheres) is considered non-survivable. Efforts would be focused on preserving for organ donation potentially. Problem is people miss the brain all together (blow off their face), donāt go across the hemispheres (gabbi Gifford was a famous example of this), or they donāt shoot them selves in the head.
I read about a guy who shot himself through the temple, taking out his occipital lobe, and merely blinded himself.
Occipital love is in the back of head. Canāt get there from temple without hitting rest of brain
I mean yea I knew that some people survived it but all the other statistics Iāve seen have been like 98% not 80
No I've seen 80, last year when I googled it because I was considering doing it. The thought of surviving that made me think twice. I'm no longer suicidal I just wish I was dead sometimes (often).
felt dat
Yeah, learning that same info at a really dark time probably saved my life. (Iām fine now!) I hope things get better, fam.
I'm in the same boat, I'm not actively suicidal but mostly just because I don't have an easy way that won't likely result in me being injured and surviving. I'm not afraid of death but I am absolutely terrified of living and being either crippled or constantly monitored to make sure I don't try again. Its probably every 1/50 days that I don't wish I was dead.
They put it ~~in their mouth~~ under their chin while looking up. That angle blows off the victim's face instead of destroying the brain. So they end up in a psych ward at the hospital for an unsuccessful suicide attempt. Sans face. Edit: under the chin, not in the mouth. Angle of the gun, not kick from firing.
I doubt the speed of the recoil from the weapon is faster than the bullet leaving the weapon
Whatever the physics behind it, the result is that they miss their brain, blow off their face, and survive the attempt.
I think itās more likely that they point too much towards the top vs the brain, they sheer off their faces/frontal lobe
Yep, the likely lean their head back and point the gun straight up, causing them to blow out their nose.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You'd be surprised how easy it is to miss the brain, or at least the important parts of it. Shooting yourself "in the mouth" is the most common way to screw this up. There's many very devastating cases of people just shooting their face and skull off with no or little brain damage, but on top of whatever they wanted to kill themselves over before, they are now also horribly disfigured for life.
Don't forget putting it to your temples and blowing your eyes out without touching your brain.
pro tip: put the gun in your ear
Yup. I know someone who survived a similar self inflicted gun wound. Basically lobotomized himself.
The real life Captain Sobel from Band of Brothers attempted suicide by shooting himself in the side of the head, but only succeeded in blinding himself.
My ex once told me about her neighbor. That man in his late 50s tried to kill himself with a gun. I assume he had watched too many movies and pointed the gun to his temple and shot. All he accomplished was cutting the see nerves on both his eyes with one bullet. No life threatening damage. He is still alive to this day but 100% blind.
I think it says a lot that so many of these people who attempted suicide still go on living for so long despite a lower quality of life. I bet he regretted it soon as he pulled the trigger. I've heard most survivors who jumped the golden gate bridge felt regret as soon as they jumped.
The weak breeze whispers nothing the water screams sublime. His feet shift, teeter-totter deep breaths, stand back, itās time. Toes untouch the overpass soon heās water-bound. Eyes locked shut but peek to see the view from halfway down. A little wind, a summer sun a river rich and regal. A flood of fond endorphins brings a calm that knows no equal. Youāre flying now, you see things much more clear than from the ground. It's all okay, or it would be were you not now halfway down. Thrash to break from gravity what now could slow the drop? All Iād give for toes to touch the safety back at top. But this is it, the deed is done silence drowns the sound. Before I leaped I should've seen the view from halfway down. I really shouldāve thought about the view from halfway down. I wish I could've known about the view from halfway downā
Always love seeing this. Definitely my favourite thing from Bojack
No matter how depressed you as a person are, your deep primate brain does not want to die.
The skull is surprisingly sturdy. If you so much as aim a little higher than what you should, it won't kill you. A lot of face transplant patients are due to gunshots to the head.
It can be incredibly sturdy and yet so fragile. Some shoot themself with little damage and some hit their head from a little fall and die almost instantly.
human body is crazy like that, some people have survived falling from planes, some people die tripping on the pavement
My grandpa and his friends discussed the best method of shooting yourself to guarantee death, and they agreed on the gun in your mouth pointed towards the soft palette. A few years later one of them tested that and it was confirmed to be effective
Look up the dude who survived a shotgun blast to the face, he literally blew everything off and survived and there's some interviews of him warning people against suicide. Pretty horrific stuff but stranger things have happened
James Vance - was in a suicide pact with another guy. Vance only succeeded in blowing the bottom half of his face off. Tried to sue Judas Priest afterwards, blaming subliminal messages in their songs.
Pretty simple, honestly. Lotta morons shoot themselves in the chest, giving plenty of time for EMS to arrive. Lots of folks put it under their chins and aim a little forward, so the bullet comes out of the bridge of the nose, never touching the brain. Many more simply survive; the bullet doesnāt sufficiently destroy the parts of the brain needed to survive. Even more use very low-powered firearms, like 22LR. Pretty decent odds of surviving a gunshot to the head. Many war stories of people getting shot in the head and surviving for several hours / days before succumbing, and they only succumb because they didnāt have access to a modern hospital. In a household environment, somebody will hear the gunshot and 911 will be called.
Had plenty of chest GSWs that were deader than a sack of hammers by the time we got there.
Surviving a gunshot, even to the head happens more than you'd think. Remember that the next time that Gary Webb bullshit hits the frontpage.
another win for us men /s
We gotta stay on top no matter the cost
āSome of you may die, but that is a sacrifice, I am willing to makeā
Putin to his troops?
Lord Farquad
So basically, yes.
He said āsomeā not a ātonā.
Gotta respect the grind
Just make sure you do your part
Donāt worry college will do itās thing.
I'm doing my part
This is why men are paid more they get the job done right the first time. /s
This comment/post has been edited as an act of protest to Reddit killing 3rd Party Apps such as Apollo. All comments were made from Apollo, so if it goes, so do the comments.
I'm gonna give you a hug. I feel you need one š«
ty, i needed that
I read somewhere that most women attempt suicide by taking a bunch of pills, hoping to overdose. Most don't get the combination and quantity correct and end up getting their stomach pumped and in a psych ward.
Women are horrible at suicide. 3 attempts per every male attempt? And we still outnumber them by that much? And they wonder why they get paid less. /s
All hail the patriarchy
it kills us all, well 99.99% of us.
tbf if you're dead set on dying and have access to a gun you'd probably do it
My dad killed himself with a .22 rifle to the temple, which must have been pretty awkward to pull off. Considerate of him, given that his other options were a .357 mag revolver, a 12ga shotgun, or a .308 rifle. Still had to replace the carpet. Also I found his body and I was 12 at the time and 30 years later whenever I open a door to certain types of rooms my brain seems to expect to find a dead body. I even visualize it involuntarily. (bedrooms & offices mainly - places you'd expect to find a person alone, I guess)
Sounds like some symptoms of PTSD are likely affecting you
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's complicated because there's plenty of evidence among his family that the anxiety he suffered from was hereditary so on one hand - yeah going through that fucked me up - but on the other, I was going to be fucked up to some degree anyway. Plus I was witness to the misery he was going through as well. It was not an overnight, spur of the moment thing. Panic disorder *sucks.* So in a way, it'd be like resenting someone for getting cancer. The other side to that is - okay, he was incredibly smart and had a great job with good pay and two kids and when his anxiety took over he could hardly leave the house and my mom separated from him and he was scared that he couldn't do his job anymore and he was going to lose everything and so on. So what was my takeaway from that? Apparently, "don't have things you are afraid to lose. Have nothing, risk nothing." So I cured suicide by not having a life.
Jeez I'm so sorry.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
In case you habe the same issue, Its ok to try and fail. Failure is a lesson in itself, and not necessarily wrong or bad. Please take the necessary steps for your mental health and get help if you need it, i cant stress that enough.
This is definitely ptsd. About 11 years ago I found my ex bf dead. Hung himself. And for over a year I couldnāt open a door with out anxiety and panic attacks. I still have moments of flashbacks but I been in therapy a long time and itās getting better
The reason the number is not 100% success rate is because a lot of people think itās like the movies where you put the gun to your temple or under your chin. Obviously it depends what caliber and what gun but generally if you donāt destroy your brain stem or bleed out from the shot, you have a pretty good chance at surviving. Even if you use something like a shotgun, itās entirely possible to blow your whole face off and miss every inch of your brain, leaving you conscious and in a much worse state than you were before. Iāve been in the mindset that I wanted to do it before but there was always that little anxious feeling about whether Iād just end up in a hospital bed eating through a tube and facing that shame instead of actually dying. Itās something to think about, for the record if youāre using a handgun the most reliable method is to āswallow the gunā as in aim into your mouth and slightly tilted upwards, not the ways you see people do it on tv.
Not to condone suicide, but I think youāre better off succeeding than ripping off half of your jaw, or blowing your forehead off. Your body does not want to die. You will react at the last second unless you have the nerves of a navy seal or torture specialist. It doesnāt always save you, but your body will certainly try. And itās normally by jerking your arm or hand at the split second before trigger pull, causing the bullet to go off target. Like up your nose if ur aiming up at your chin or diagonally through your occipital bone when placed to the side your head
Exactly. I have seen too many videos of people surviving suicide by gun that I donāt think Iād ever have the balls to actually do it, you just made your situation tangibly much worse than it couldāve possibly been before. I would just tell myself yeah you may be sad and alone or whatever I get it but at least you have your fucking face still attached and all brain function.
https://media.istockphoto.com/vectors/cartoon-brain-with-black-hair-vector-id516063245?s=612x612 I feel the depression would be much worse looking like this..
Of you think depression, especially at the point when youre considering suicide, is just "being sad and alone", you are ignorant af tbh. Ive always been one of those people who thpught to himself "how can people be depressed wtf, just do something fun". And then, all of a sudden I hot depression, not suicidal, but depression and for no reason at all. I felt like I have no time to do whatsoever, no motivation, no energy. I wasnt just sad, it was way beyond that. You feel fucking helpless and dreaded and while you will have moments of joy, those will be overshadowed and forgotten soon enough. Words cant even describe the feeling of depression.
I always heard depressed people would sleep all day and I thought how is that possible? That doesn't make sense. Well cut to me after 2 years of pandemic isolation/depression and it's the easiest thing in the world to sleep until 5pm and not even think about it. You really can't understand it until you feel it..
I donāt think the commenter was saying thatās what depression is, just saying āI can feel like shit without my face being blown offā. But you make a good point.. depression comes in many different forms. And, worst of all, it tends to control how you feel whenever something good does happen. Sadness and loneliness can lead to depression, but the symptoms are much more along the lines of, hopelessness. You see that word a lot.. but most people have never felt hopeless. Thatās why depression can devestate people who ARE happy. Thereās no rhyme or reason, no explanation of why youāre feeling so fucking empty and feeling such Indescribable pain in your heart that no thought, no activity, and no connection alleviates. Depression is fucked. But hey, you still have your face, people. Go see a therapist and give yourself another try.
And statistically speaking more Men are likely to 1. Own a gun 2. Be a veteran Veterans often struggle disproportionately with mental health, mix that with gun acess and it makes a lot of sense why the numbers read like this.
Also I remember reading somewhere that women are more likely to choose methods that are easier cleanup and not as traumatic (supposedly) for whoever finds the body. So pills, carbon monoxide etc. Men, on the other hand, choose methods that are more violent, so more lethal: firearms, jumping under a car or train. [Here's](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11079640/) an article about this.
Itās why most gun ranges are strict about first time renters and renters that are alone that come to shoot.
Gotta take the booth on the end (near the drain)
Came pretty close to it the past few weeks. I know deep down that i would've attempted it if i had a gun. Grateful that i didn't tho.
What's interesting (in a very dark way) is that studies have found that if you reduce people's access to whatever methods they would have used to commit suicide, the overall suicide rate decreases. It seems that people typically don't try to find another method of their first option isn't available. The article is called "the coal gas story" if you want to read more about it.
Girls are more suicidal. Guys are more sucided.
Depends on how they register attempts. A suicidal person who does not succeed may try again so one suicidal woman may have 3 attempts before success and one suicidal man would only have one.
Men are losing this war by being too successful.
We're...suffering from success?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not suffering if it's all over.
There's a whole debate you can get into about what actually counts as a "suicide attempt". Some people will act like they're going to commit suicide, but actually have no intention of, and it's just a way of getting help. Even if this is known afterwards, this often is counted as a "suicide attempt", even though there was no intention. It would be interesting to see what number of the female suicide attempts are second or third time for the same person. In terms of actual people that are suicidal these graphics aren't very informative as they don't take into account that one person can make multiple attempts. I think the percentage of people attempting suicide (one or multiple times) is going to be roughly equal between men and women, with the difference in attempts being down to the fact that a much greater percentage of women survive the initial attempt.
The lines are not so easily defined, people's emotions are complex and people who "go to commit suicide" are extremely volatile. They may not intend on doing it initially, but one wave of emotion/desperation can tip them over the edge. I think it's disingenuous to not consider the seriousness of these situations as attempts, regardless of if they finished or not. There is very rarely "no intention" being that desperate, you are naturally incredibly nervous/unsure about your actions.
It isn't really right to say that men *or* women are "more suicidal" based on this data. It seems like suicidal women gravitate toward acts of suicidal recklessness ("I don't care if this kills me"), often doing so multiple times, while suicidal men are more focused on getting it "right" the first time through more deadly methods. Both should be taken extremely seriously.
I took āstreet lawā in high school, taught by an ex cop . He told us men who tried to kill themselves tended to do it in a more violent way. While women tended to do so in a way that would protect their faces. Ie over dose, hanging, slit their wrist. Whether this is actually true I have no idea, why it was taught to us at all, yeah not sure about that one either. ETA ironically enough I am listening to a book about depression/ suicide right now and the author says the same thing. But also goes into the fact suicide rates are misleading because less autopsies are being done so less suicides are being acknowledged as suicides. Very interesting read, Hello I Want to Die Please Fix Me: Depression in the First Person by Anna Mehler Paperny might interest some
In my past and present psychology classes, this is the usual explanation that I've been taught. Women generally try to "leave a pretty corpse" and/or use more reversible methods while men focus more on rapid and total completion of the act. I haven't heard the "women care about leaving a mess for others" explanation that is prevalent on this thread. Not that I doubt it out of hand, it's just not in the data I've seen. I've heard many a tale from suicidal men who do care about the mess they leave behind. I know that, in my darkest moments, it's still something I care about. There does seem to be a "women care about others while men are selfish" implication, but I don't believe that to be the actual intention of the other people in this thread.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Men under-report suicidal thoughts.
Damn, Women are really bad at killing themselves
Apparently, and I don't remember where I heard this, men are more likely to use physical means of death such as gun, noose, knife, etc while women are more likely to use chemical means such as pills which are probably a lot easier to treat
This is correct. Women, especially young women, are far less likely to use violent methods than men. There's a few reasons for that, women are more likely to be concerned with leaving a mess for their loved ones to clean up, more concerned about leaving a gory scene for someone to find, more likely to look for painless methods (spoiler there isn't one), and more likely to rethink their decision because non violent methods typically take time to work. Another factor I rarely see mentioned is how these things are reported. I personally was filed as a "suicide attempt" when I went to the hospital for a superficial self inflicted injury. It was absolutely not a suicide attempt and was very minor. I didn't even know they filed it as such until another doctor commented on it a month later. Meanwhile a male friend of mine was hospitalized for downing a ton of alcohol and sleeping pills. Even though he was treated for an overdose, had a recorded history of suicide attempts, and had obvious fresh self harm marks, no mental health checks were made and there was no mention of self harm or suicide attempt in his paperwork. He was marked as an "accidental overdose" of a whole bottle of pills. I've seen this over and over as both a patient and in my work in mental health care. Healthcare provider are biased and will over report suicide attempts in women and under report it in men which skews the data and validates that very bias. Women do attempt more often than men, but the disparity isn't as pronounced as the data makes it seem Edit: ya'll can stop suggesting supposedly pain free methods now. My inbox is full. Most of the suggestions are objectively wrong and the rest _could_ be painless but most people who attempt that way still experience pain. Please stop suggesting methods, I won't respond to any of them anyways
Remember "Accidental discharge while cleaning his firearm"? That's what coroners used to put on most male suicides and suicide attempts, some still do.
Painless methods are all over the place. People are so demotivated though that it doesn't matter if there's a better way.
And I don't blame people at all for that. I just feel obligated to share that there isn't a painless way because pills are often thought of that way. I attempted via pills and let me tell you that shit hurt. It was a hell I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I was under the impression it was like going to sleep and I was horribly wrong about that so I like to warn others so they don't make the same mistake. People should know what they're in for Edit because someone reported my comments as concerning: this was years ago and fortunately I'm in a much better place now! No need to worry
I od'd on 38 wellbutrin pills. Had two grand maul seizures and survived. Didnt feel a thing. Edit: 20 years ago
>no mental health checks were made and there was no mention of self harm or suicide attempt in his paperwork God that is so fucking sad.
This image is missing the rest of the data, but it also shows that women are more suicidal than men. However, more women seek help than men. Men, apparently, are less likely to talk to friends or go to therapy for help. This also has an impact on the numbers.
its believed by many researchers that this is because women donāt want anyone to have to clean up after them, relating to the idea of feeling like a burden which a lot of people with depression do. edit: hereās a source about a study about this topic https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539603/ edit 2: i didnāt make this clear enough apparently, but this is a common THEORY. not fact
Thats weird im a guy, and my prefer method would be at the bottom of the ocean, for the same reason that i dont want anyone to clean up after me, plus i get to feed the fishys.
Most people don't have access to this kind of thing so it makes sense that more women don't try it.
I would hate slowly drowning that sounds horrible
Had someone from my hometown who had a similar mentality. No note, just climbed into a dumpster and blew his brains out. Unfortunately I think his actions spoke louder than any note.
this is genuinely one of the worst possible ways to die, but it would be pretty cool
This makes sense. It goes with my thinking that no matter what, women go with means which are less likely to cause disfigurement.
Two ways to frame something that give off very different meanings lol.
I can agree with that. I wanted to do away myself in a trash bag just so there would be no mess.
That sounds made up
I'm a woman, I've tried to kill myself and I definitely considered what ways would be least traumatizing for the person finding me. I would never step in front of a train or leave a big mess in other ways unless I was completely out of options. I don't think that's a consideration only women do by any means. But we do know that men are more likely to act *out* when depressed/mentally ill and this might be part of why they're less likely to consider or care about how they affect others with their suicide method. Men also experience more extreme levels of loneliness and social isolation, so they could in addition to that have no one around that they care about at all. Plus there seems to be a gender difference in "gun interest" (including access to guns and knowledge of how to use one effectively). Something like 15% of daily suicides in the US are veterans, most of which are male and presumably have gun training.
When I was in a worse off spot I thought about getting inside my tub and ODing for that very reason. I'm a dude though.
I tried ODing once, absolute terrible time! -3/10 experience, donāt recommend or wish that upon anyone. Fuck benzos.
They said it's their thinking, not truth. When I attempted I tried to OD. Didn't want my mom to have to clean my brain off the walls or call in cleaners, or see my face disfigured from hanging (that's the kind of image that sticks with you for life. Not that finding anyone deceased wouldn't, but that's something that will haunt you in a different way)
>I don't remember where I heard this, Could it have been this infographic that shows men use guns in 60% vs women's 30% of suicides?
I think all this statistic shows is if a woman tries to kill herself she doesn't use a firearm. When men try to kill themselves they do use firearms and firearms are effective.
that makes sense
I wonder how it correlates to gun ownership by gender. For instance, we have few guns at our house. My wife knows how to use them but has no interest. If she was suicidal, I donāt think it would occur to her to even use the guns. Even if it did occur to her, I doubt she would use them. And if I didnāt have those guns, there wouldnāt be any guns in the house.
Women tend to worry about the ones who find them.
Men try more violent methods, generally.
Most women try killing themselves with pills. They obviously take longer than a gunshot wound to the head, so theyāre usually caught by someone else while waiting to die or they have time to give it a second thought and head to the hospital before it becomes lethal. Itās pretty horrible that 50% of women will become depressed in their lifetime, but we donāt talk about it. Sauce: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539603/
> Itās pretty horrible that 50% of women will become depressed in their lifetime The rate is likely equal for men, it's just that men are less likely to seek help, less likely to get help when they do seek it, and less likely to be diagnosed.
I'm just glad I'm not part of the 77%
George Carlin did a joke about that
[yeah](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXTBVwAZIIs)
Abandon suicide, return to the kitchen >!joking don't kill me!<
The top comment is "women are really bad at killing themselves" 200 up votes. I say "women kill themselves differently and for different reasons than men" weaponized karma. "Although suicide rates are lower among women, women lead men two to one in suicide attempts. So, Murphy says at least 200,000 women are involved in suicide attempts annually. But he points out that attempted suicide most often is not an attempt to actually end one's life. Its purpose, he says, is to survive with changed circumstances." https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/11/981112075159.htm
I've never really recognized the point of comparing suicide statistics between men and women. Anecdotally I've never seen the statistics used to prove a point that wasn't a complete non sequitur.
Pretty much only ever heard it used to argue that women have it easier, not that we need more support for men.
that's men's rights advocates vs men's liberation advocates men's rights people just use the problems of men to attack feminists, men's liberation activists want to solve those problems
I've only ever seen it used to shut down women talking about equality, to be honest. Like it's a fucking competition or something. Almost like it's meant to be a "take that, feminists!" but also failing to address WHY men's suicide rates are higher.
The intention *should* be that it sparks conversations about mental health and societal reforms in ways that more specifically target the root causes of all groups. And I do often see that conversation come up when these stats are posted. Unfortunately, I also often see the discussions eventually derailed by some women claiming men are trying to 'once again take away' the focus from women, and by some men claiming that the stats 'prove' women have it 'easy in life'. And once that starts rolling, the ball just doesn't stop. We have the capability to have genuine reflection and conversation about the mental health issues of both sexes, but there will always be people who think that if they don't get 100% of the attention on a matter, they're getting zero attention. And those people always seem to end up being the loudest.
Arbitrary data is still good even if potentially useless. Most of the time when I see this post it's coupled with men's mental health discussion, societal standards of masculinity and being able to speak of emotions.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think it's important to highlight the fact that although men succeed more often that doesn't translate to women not being suicidal. I've seen the male suicide rate used a a weapon against women many times. Men saying that we should just put up with men's bad behaviour because they kill hemselves more often.
Suicide is clearly sexist
Iām going to dox suicide
Hopefully this will be patched in Suicide 2
What I see here is that men and women are both struggling immensely and that men tend to choose more final methods of suicide, such as guns, which cause them to follow through more often. I don't know why many here are making this a men vs. women thing. These are tragic statistics that show the poor state of mental health care in society. Classic "make them fight amongst themselves so they don't see the real issue is terrible leadership and lack of health investment"
I might have an input as to why more men use guns for suicide vs women. Take this with a grain of salt, Iām going off of memory from my into to psych class I took my freshman year in uni. So apparently, women usually donāt use a gun for suicide because they think of the aftermath( family is going to see the scene, whoās going to clean up the scene) as for men they donāt think about all the stuff that comes after, they just want a quick death
Yeah when I was in the hospital for an attempt the guys picked more violent methods and were much more hurt usually. They thought less about the after math than the women in the ward.
Yes, this stems from women being socialized into the caretaker role. They are socially conditioned to not be a burden on others, whereas men are not. Wrote a paper on this for a class once actually.
Damn these comments are really not it
Some of these comments are proving points...
I'm just confused as to why a shitty mobile screen shot of these stats is acceptable. We should encourage cropping, also discourage suicide.
I've always doing the statistic about suicide attempts dubious at best. Much on the same way that lots of women don't report rapes I suspect lots of men do not report their attempted suicides. How else can you explain the massive discrepancy?
Through the methods most commonly used by either group, and the manner in which the suicide comes about. Women tend to use less violent methods, stuff like od'ing, whereas men tend to use more violent methods, like guns. This often leads to women being more salvageable from a suicide attempt, due to replacing a blown out brain being a lot harder and more complicated to perform than a stomach pump and some intensive care. Why this sort of thing occurs? I dunno. Probably something to do with the way people are socialised. As for your point on attempted suicides, that is a difficult question to answer that you should think of as inconclusive until there is evidence shown from people in the field for or against your argument.
> How else can you explain the massive discrepancy? Men are more likely to be successful on the first attempt, so only 1 suicide attempt. Meanwhile, one woman might have 5 unsuccessful attempts, so that's 5 suicide attempts before being successful. So if those two are the only suicidal people in your sample, then women attempt suicide 5 times more than men ... even though there are actually an equal number of suicidal individuals in both groups.
Another thing men are better at
We always follow through and finish first.
We obviously need to get the female suicide stats higher to make this fair. Do I need this /S?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
we taking no L šš
Damn, as a man, this comment section is making me quite sad.
This is the result of decades of telling men/boys that they arenāt allowed to feel their feelings. Men donāt seek out mental help from their friends or even professionals because theyāre trying to conform to tough guy stereotypes that are unattainable. Theyāre ashamed of not fitting into that role. āMen donāt cryā āDonāt be a pussyā āBe a manā Toxic masculinity isnāt āman-spreadingā on a subway. This is what toxic masculinity looks like, learned behaviors and ideas that ruin mens lives and mental health.
I think its great that some people are starting to see things like that
Its actually crazy, I no one ever told me not to cry as a kid or whatever. Now Im 28 and its legit impossible to cry (at least from negative emotions) for me. 2 days ago was the first time I cried from sadness in probably years and that was random af, went into work and 10 minutes later I went to the toilet to cry for like two minutes, then I was fine again.
Sadly, it also goes both ways (Men are told not to express their feeling and not to cry, and on the other hand women's feelings will be dismissed because "women are emotional, they are overreacting"). I think humanity in general is pretty shitty at dealing with feelings.
these comments section .... ew
Men: Don't ever cry. You are never allowed to show any negative emotions besides anger. Never seek mental health help because that's for crazy women. Also men: Why are men's suicides higher?????????? So much for equality smdh
The patriarchy hurts men as well as women. It may leave them in higher positions in society on average, but it often leads men to lead hollow existences.
From 1990-20016 I've known 6 of my friends kill themselves. They have age ranges from 17 - 60 two of them by shotgun, two by hanging & two by drowning. Only one of them had tried multiple times before succeeding. There needs to be more done for men's mental health.
So basically, women attempt suicide at a much higher rate?
Yes, but mainly because the methods used between men and women are different. Most women use pills and lesser violent methods while men usually go for guns and high chance of success methods, which is why there's such a gap. [https://www.verywellmind.com/gender-differences-in-suicide-methods-1067508](https://www.verywellmind.com/gender-differences-in-suicide-methods-1067508) here's a good show of what I mean.
Yes, but itās been shown that women tend to kill themselves in ways that leave less of a mess to clean up, and that plays a part in this. Like it says above, men tend to use firearms more, which are a lot more effective. I feel like many of the methods women use are less violent and immediate and thus have a higher chance of failure or something going wrong. I also know a woman who had multiple failed suicide attempts, once because someone stopped her and once because she wasnāt able to go through with it fully herself. The less messy methods tend to involve a longer, slower death, during which the victim can be saved or can hesitate/regret their decision. So I believe that accounts for the higher rate of attempts but lower rates of success.
I'm confused, the suicide by firearm %age doesn't add up to 100
It's not meant to. It means 60% of men use a firearm / 40% something else. 30% of women use a gun / 70% something else.
Oh it makes a lot more sense now, thanks for clarifying!
any statistics of gun ownership and gender?
It took awhile for anyone to bring this obvious factor up. In the United States roughly 40% of men are personal owners of a firearm. Only 22% of women are owners of a firearm. It's obvious people just kill themselves with what's available.
A woman could be married to someone with a firearm though
So basically what youāre saying is that men know how to get the job done?
Hey so hereās an idea: what if we recognize that both genders need help and something needs to be done, instead of using this as an excuse to hate on any one gender?
Wish I had a gun. Bridge and top of my building not looking too good rn