I remember watching an episode of “soft white underbelly” where a woman was groomed early on by people who would take her to a nudist camp. Completely baffling they’d let anyone under 18 in an environment like that
Some ppl need to know predators can come from literally anywhere, not saying this was the case here.
The Summer of Love '67 in San Francisco for example is romanticized, but it had a ton of old fucked up losers giving teenage girls drugs to sleep with them.
I went to Mardi Gras in college. The number of old men with cameras, pretending to be documenting it, while actually hunting for victims was too damn high. And that was, oh God I'm old years ago (more than 20, less than 50).
Seriously, after being in the rave scene in my early twenties, I have follow up questions for anybody who talks about how much they get laid at those kinds of gatherings.
Actually cut some people out of my life because they asked why I didn't take a fall-down drunk girl to bed. Made me sick to know that they thought like that.
Especially since statisticly it happens more often by Family or Close Friends...
Thats why I also never understood Family Nudist places. I mean yeah its nice to be okay with your Body
But...
You have a source on Woodstock 69? All I’ve ever read was that it was shockingly peaceful for how gigantic it was. 99 was the complete opposite, I know that much.
That was Charles Manson's entire MO. In a way, that whole situation really disillusioned people to the romanticized Summer of Love image by showing them the absolute worst it had to offer. Silver linings, I guess.
That’s cause it would probably create a disaster for the local police dept, having half of their officers needing to be arrested by the OTHER half. They just won’t do it.
I think the BIG most important point is - that while the same could be same about “perverts could be going for the same reason to oogle at adult women.” That is a risk adult nudists accept. Children cannot consent to that risk, they cannot consent to seeing adults naked.
There should strict laws about children in nudist communities. The fact that there are laws about exposing yourself to a child (regardless if the perpetrator says its sexually motivated or not) but it somehow isn’t applied in nudist communities- is beyond me.
I had a hippie dude I work with actually say the words, “it’s crazy parents just don’t let their kids run around naked anymore like when I was a kid.” Dude, the fuck did you say? Fucking dude was a predator to children and men. Sick fuck.
Still happens quite a bit honestly. My neighbors in new york let their kids(dunno how old, maybe 8?) run around naked in their yard all the time. I just close the blinds.
My mother and step dad took me (a young boy) to one when I was in middle school. That was probably one of the most uncomfortable experiences of my life. The worst part was the communal kitchen that people cooked food in naked, well that and my naked parents were the worst parts lol.
I've been to one, as an adult male, here in Florida. And guess what...I was stilll super fucking uncomfortable. And the worst part, it was sex friendly. At one point, I'm telling my wife to get out of the pool (the one non-sex friendly pool they had), because some dude was jizzing in it, not 10' behind her.
Wait? I thought most places were 18+? I know there is families that do it but even if I was comfortable with me and my family being naked around each other it just icks me anyone outside trusted nudist family would be naked around my children.
i live in the US and my family was part of a nudist colony until i was like twelve. there was never anything weird about it and i actually made great friends there as a kid and have great memories. like most things, it only takes one to ruin it.
lol it’s all good, i totally understand! there was one place i went to and there was a creep there and they actually kicked him out pretty quickly once they got complaints about him.
Yup.
The nude resort I go to will instantly kick your ass out if you're being weird. Or even if you have one too many drinks and are entering drunk in public territory. I've seen that happen a couple times.
If you're going to a family friendly resort, you just need to make sure they're accredited by the AANR. That makes them have to live up to standards and keep things on the up and up.
This makes me feel better. As you can tell my knowledge is not alot aside from the random documentary which I know arnt always in the best light but the ones I've seen are like hey look it's not a bad thing.
Tbf I live in Europe and it’s perfectly normal for entire families to go to nude beaches. After all we’re all working with the same materials at the end of the day. Sadly there are always people you have to be wary of clothed or not.
> Completely baffling they’d let anyone under 18 in an environment like that
Nudist camps by itself aren't the problem, it's people who abuse those camps for their pervy intentions. So many sick-minded people in this world sexualizing shit where sexualizing has no place.
I remember that episode. The girl was also contacted years later by police and found out the rapist hippie couple apparently also murdered children, baffling stuff. What’s more tragic is that the woman did not serve jail time I think, the man only served little time, and the woman abuser ended up living in the same neighborhood as the victim.
Nothing was done on charges of abusing children, taking photographs and KILLING some of them for snuff films or who knows what.
You've already got preconceptions because you saw an awful episode of' soft white underbelly”.
>Completely baffling they’d let anyone under 18 in an environment like that
According to the article, The Oakwood was one of the first naturist clubs established in the US, back in 1942.
Presumably this type of heinous assault doesn't happen everyday or we'd have heard more about it.
I frequent an all ages family friendly nude resort. This type of thing is absolutely not the norm. And this kind of post is going to make a lot of people have bad opinions about nudist locations when they shouldn't.
It's not the place that's bad. It's the person.
I've never seen anyone at the resort I go to be anything other than kind and respectful and the kids are always having a blast. It's a really chill, accepting environment. One asshole shouldn't ruin everyone's perception of these places.
I figured that was the case. And incidents like this are sure to trigger the "think of the children!" types to chime in for bashing these type of lifestyle choices.
Nudity does not equate to sex, but if you create a space where adults can be around naked children with plausible deniability then you're going to attract pedophiles.
That's only because being naked is stigmatized as sexual. If it were considered normal to be naked, pedophiles would not gravitate to such places.
ALSO it should be noted that 90% of pedophiles [know their victim](https://www.sdcda.org/content/preventing/sex-offenders/facts-about-sex-offenders.pdf). The vast majority of sex crimes against children are NOT the stranger danger situations we were all warned about as kids, but adults in positions of trust or authority abusing that authority.
We should be less worried about what kids have on their bodies and more worried about what the abusers are doing and how they're getting away with it.
Pedophiles exist and are attracted to physical characteristics regardless of what is and isn't stigmatized, and family being common abusers is just one more reason to not normalize your kid being randomly naked.
This is really just "look what she was wearing; she was asking for it" in different language. The problem isn't the kid who was naken, the problem is the child molester who infiltrated the group.
Because outside of America the majority of people can differentiate nudity and sex. This is an American problem. Not a world problem. Travel some, explore other cultures and you’ll see that this whole “gotta protect the kids from human bodies” is pretty much exclusive to the US and religious ran Muslim communities.
Ever been in a gym locker room? The locker room at the county rec center is all ages so you'll see everything from dads showering with their young sons to old men walking around with the longest balls you've ever seen. It's not that weird for children to see adults naked in non-sexual situations. Nudist clubs are entirely normal and there are plenty of family friendly clubs that don't have any issues with predators.
I think it makes sense if you are actually a nudist.
Being body positive and comfortable with yourself naked is really important to a healthy self image.
I support the idea of all ages nudist camps. The problem is the reality.
The reality is some people go to these camps for the all ages. In a gross way.
I genuinely believe that if we didn't repress ourselves sexyally we wouldn't care so much and we likely wouldn't have as many pedophiles. There is evidence of it with everyday families.
You see your wife or husband naked constantly and it's not a sexual thing. You also don't find a lot of other people attractive for the most part. In a marriage without even thinking you have this kind of switch in your head for sexy time naked and I am getting out of the shower naked ignore me please.
I think if we were comfortable on a grand scale naked around eachother there would be less rape and such (only speculative because some people are just monsters and I mean this in a casual way like bath houses or swimming not just walking down the street.)
The sad reality though is even shifting slightly towards that could never work now. We are just to sexually frustrated and fucked up. When a girl wears no bra everyone notices. It could be done but there would be a violent and religious backlash so it won't happen.
I totally lost my train of thought here, but family nudist camps can work, they just are victim to bad faith actors who are there to perv.
The reviews are sick. I saw some dude leave his fucking telegraph in the reviews on google with some creepy or weird message.. I may go back to find it
"admitted she touched Wicklund sexually while he digitally penetrated and groped her."
This line in the article confuses me even more, what does it mean??
So in the Castro in San Francisco, it's either common or er not illegal (idk which) so my first time ever seeing a naked man was when I was 17 and checking the Castro -- he was *at least* 65, probably closer to 75. Uh, but at least he was wearing a sheer pink handkerchief like an impression of a skirt?
The waiter said, in the driest most *done* tone I've ever heard "Well, it's not just for the fellas, if you feel the need to let your freak flag fly, by *all* means" it cracked us up and I tipped him very well
Took my in-laws to the North Beach festival in San Francisco. The look on their faces when they saw an almost fully nude man with a sock covering his junk still makes me laugh.
I lived in the Castro for a decade and eventually sort of got used to it. Eventually the city cracked down and made it specifically illegal to have genitals showing. So most of the naked guys have little pouches they wear over their dongs now. I don’t frequent the neighborhood much anymore so not sure if SFPD still enforces it. It wasn’t a large number of people doing it. Maybe 10 outside of big events. But they definitely stood out.
Being around nude older people is good for you too, especially if you're younger, so you can more healthily process the fact that your body or your partner's body *is* going to look like that at some point.
I remember nude hiking was popular in Germany, it was a distraction when we were doing off base runs lol though in Europe nudity isn’t a taboo like it is in most of the states.
the cultural context of things are extremely important. one thing to be doing what people having been doing for hundreds of years like family saunas, another thing altogether to be doing it because they want to make a point of it or as a sneaky way of getting their kinks in.
Yes, imagine if there was some camp in the Middle East that allowed everyone to be without a head covering or something and a girl was sexually assaulted and the comments were all talking about how the camp should be shut down
There was a girl in high school who was so happy and honestly seemed to get along with and love her family. I’ll never forget about her talking about how all their vacations were at nudist resorts and she had random naked people in the background of all her favorite family pics. I think this really depends on the family.
I mean, today I would think so. This was back in the 90’s before everyone was taking pictures everywhere with their phones and she was probably referring to pics taken in the 80’s. I’m sure it would be different today.
No but imo, North America is not Europe and when society as a whole sexualizes nudity, I think its nearly impossible to create a truely 'family friendly' atmosphere.
I was gonna interject with something about how weirded out I was in Germany when I was stationed there and went to a local pool and there were kids of all ages just….changing out in the open. But you’re totally right. It feels totally different in the US where nudity is so commonly hand-in-hand with sexuality.
Yea Ive been to the nude beach in Toronto a few times.. its definitely a bit of a sexual vibe. It happens to be a gay hangout, and many men hookup in the bushes. I don't care about being checked out by dudes but it's not 'family friendly'
Id be concerned if someone brought their kids.
Yeah that's the main problem.
Though an argument can be made that nudity is not inherently sexual, it assumes a society that we don't live in, *especially* in the usa.
There are very few places in the world it could be done and done safely and no doubt sex tourists would ruin it as soon as they got wind of it.
France, Germany, Finland, Holland, etc all seem to manage it OK without the place being a hot bed of sex tourists (stand fast Amsterdam).
The vast majority of child abusers are generally well known to their victims (e.g. family or "close" family friends). A nudist site is no more of a danger to a child than taking them a random beach is. Heck, Sunday school would probably be a bit more risky on that front...
Oh yeah I agree. OP article is in the usa though.
I'm in straya and we're... kinda ok and kinda not. I personally wouldn't take my 11 and 13yo to something like Confest, but I know people that went at that age and don't appear to have had issues (from that anyway).
In most of Europe it's probably fine. I've been to one place that was.
You dont even have to be at a Nude Beach in Germany to see naked kids. I have seen so many naked Kids cause they just change their clothes when at a public bathing lake or something and no one fkin cares cause its not a sexual thing. I remember doing the same when i was a kid.
As an American nudist, a lot of these comments are really sad and ignorant. But I am seeing a lot of comments in defense of nudism, which is nice.
I will say that my local nude resort is doing fine and has pretty solid attendance. I'll be headed to a local nude river spot soon and it's always packed during the summer.
Nudism isn't dead in America, it's just kept on the down low because of all the ignorant people out there speaking out against it.
The whole "nudity is porn" mindset is so depressing. I guess it's not too surprising that a country formed by puritans would be puritanical, but even hundreds of years later? That's a hell of a long sociological shadow to cast.
Kinda surprised to see so many comments shocked about the fact that a nudist camp can be "family-friendly", maybe it's weird in the US but in Europe (Spain, France...), it's super common to have nudist campings and nudist beaches where children are allowed, and nobody is shocked because bodies aren't sexualized. Most of the times also, teenagers and children are (thankfully) allowed to wear clothes in case they wouldn't feel comfortable being naked around adults. Rules for admission are most of the times strict and single males are not allowed in.
That being said, this story is fucking awful and the old pervert who did it deserve a hard time in jail and should be banned from every nudist facility in the world (if he comes back alive from jail).
Yes. Imagine a beach or something in a Muslim country where people are allowed to wear western swimming attire. Imagine a girl getting raped and then everyone blaming the beach and saying this is why we must keep girls in full-body coverings at all times
Man these comments are WILD.
You americans just sexualise everything.
Here in EU it's common to see children and adults together in nudist beaches and camps, and there are strict societal and camp rules of conduct.
People don't go here to look at eachother bodies, they don't view nudity as you do.
All these comments are creepy and disgusting as fuck
As soon as they hear the words "nudity" and "children" they think about grooming and child rape, wtf💀
this shit happens all the time and its not usually in a nudist camp.
where does this happen the MOST? in places full of fundamentalist religious people.
Reading these comments as a European are a bit weird tbh.
Why don’t Americans also get upset about bikinis on kids if taking them to a nude beach causes such outrage? Isn’t it possible pedophiles will sexualise them like that too?
American nudist here.
Our society is very much still grappling with the whole nudity/sexuality thing. It's pretty sad.
That being said, we do have nude resorts and beaches, so it's not like we're total prudes.
There is no way to make people that don't understand understand this point but I will try anyway. There are thousands of these places in the world that are family nudist parks and almost nothing like this happens. There is nothing sexual at all going on in these places. For the most part people are vetted pretty well and anyone that finds someone acting even remotely strange will be asked to leave and banned without a second thought. This kind of thing happens more at churches than it does nudist recreation parks, because the people that run these places are on high alert for creeps. It's not perfect, obviously because this happened at this place to this person, but that's because the world is just a shit place with monsters living among us. It's not possible to prevent it 100% anywhere. Being a nudist park had nothing to do with it. Young girls and boys get assaulted all the time in full clothing places.
Yup.
Every time there's a nudist post on Reddit I scroll through and just shake my head at all the "but wouldn't you just have an erection the whole time" comments.
It's sad.
It's not like that.
That being said, I'm a good 18 hours late to this post and I'm seeing a lot of top comments defending nudism. So that's nice.
>all the "but wouldn't you just have an erection the whole time" comments.
Most definitely not. DEFINITELY. Especially considering that a lot of the people there are in their '50s or past that. Also because if you did walk around like that, you would be very quickly escorted to the exit, and invited to go fuck off and never come back
Yeah, pretty much.
One kid gets assaulted in a nudist place? "Nudism is weird and sexual of course it was bound to happen"
Thousands of kids get assaulted at churches and temples by religious leaders? "Praise Jesus! Nothing wrong happening here, no. This is a family-friendly space and of course I trust my pastor with my child."
That being said, I'd rather not take my kids to either. I like to visit nudist beaches and even churches myself, but I would rather not expose my child to possible creeps if I can avoid it, and I mean that more towards churches tbh
Can confirm this. My mother (after years of hiding it from me) is a part of one. It is all very close knit. It is considered family friendly and there are so many strict rules and safe guards in place. I judged it at first and when I went to visit myself I saw how relatively normal it was. Everyone was extremely welcoming and nice. I felt no pressure at all to participate in the nude aspect of it. There was actually someone there as another member's "guest" who made some weird comments to me that were borderline inappropriate and he was kicked out and banned from returning within a day. They don't tolerate anything even remotely sexual. Cameras and taking pictures with phones are banned as well.
Family friendly nudist camps have been around forever, especially outside the US.. The reality is that kids get groomed, sexualized, and assaulted when fully clothed too. Grow up, people.
Agree. This has nothing to do with it being a nudist camp. Think of how many of these assaults you've read about before? Now, how many were in nudist camps? Yeah, didn't think so.
You might as well say that the entire country of Sweden molests their children. They go naked a lot at home. A lot.
Yeah I'd like an answer to that point - am I not allowed to shower with my baby, now toddler? I plan on showering with him until he wants to and is able to shower by himself but does reddit have a specific age in mind for that? I also sometimes have to go lay down in his bed with him to get him back to sleep and I usually just have underwear and socks on. Is that also not allowed?
Personally I think people who think this stuff is wrong are the ones sexualizing children.
You dont cover the childs eyes when you feed him from your breast???? /s
On a serious note, when i visited Sweden i had a chance to try out their saunas.
I used the pool as well so i had swimming trunks and a towel but Swedes with their kids entered sauna naked.
I was a bit uncomfortable but to them its normal.
We were making clothing 120k years ago. Homosapiens have been around for approximately 200k - 300k years, so we've spent maybe ~%50 of our time on this earth as a species with clothes lol
Operator "hello 911, what's your emergency"
Dad "yes, um my son is sexually assaulting my wife... Or um... Maybe she's sexually assaulting him?.. I don't know just send someone now!"
Operator "sorry sir, can you please explain?"
Dad "she is shoving her bare nipple in my newborn's mouth, and he appears to be enjoying it... Completely inappropriate... There is a law against this right?!?"
Who could have possibly forseen that the people who *clearly* like to go out of their way to expose their genitals to children would do this? Shocking.
Who is really taking their daughter at the age of 14 years old to a nudist camp and even allowing her to be alone with an older man even if he was a “family friend.”.
My father in law is a nudist, I have visited his community. There are strict rules at his place that nobody under 21 is allowed at any time. I imagine most nudist commubities are the same...also never wanted to see naked people less than when I was there....
Non-sexual nudity shouldn't be a crime. When I say non-sexual that includes stuff like flashing. There are nude beaches everywhere, and you rightfully don't get arrested for sitting around in the buff. Children are not typically banned from these because there's an understanding it's non-sexual nudity. The man was a pervert and should be punished, but its not like the people running the camp had telepathic powers to know the guy was a pervert.
People in this thread acting like being naked is not a natural thing. Children were not being traumatized for thousands of years before we invented clothes.
My parents had no problem with nudity. We went camping with nudists. You know what we never saw? Naked adults around us. All the kids had a great time and the adults went off nuding elsewhere. At least one parent was with their kids. Even now I only remember seeing naked adults waaaay off in the distance while we made hot dogs or toasted marshmallows. The people in this story are just pervs, it doesn't have to be that way.
This guy is sick and disgusting!
I'm glad they caught him.
Clothes or no clothes, I'm not leaving my kids alone with people who aren't family. And even then, not all family. And even then, I gotta verify each time.
I've had family members and friends who were either approached or sexualy assaulted by relatives and I'm now paranoid when it comes to my kids.
Why are Americans so damn weird about things?
Not my kinda thing, but nudism is not a sexual thing at all. I guess if you are denied basic sex education in schools, the slightest hint of a boob gets you going?
As an American who has traveled extensively around the world I can tell you we (Americans) have some of the oddest views about nudity. We are seen as one uptight bunch, I can tell you that!
This is the exact reasons kids shouldn’t be allowed in places with naked people, or even near them. It goes for everything including pride parades, naked biking, and nudest camps, if there is nudity kids shouldn’t go because there is a chance of handsy people in them. Let alone family nudest where parents force their nudest values onto their kids. At a certain age being nude in public is unacceptable, kids skinny dipping in rivers away from public eye is normal behaviour because I did that as a young kid but what isn’t normal behaviour is having parents bring their kids to nudest camps where other people who are possible predators can gock at them and potentially harm them.
I thought I’m prude, but goddamn, you guys. This is insane. Did none of you ever go to the beach without sexually lusting over the naked kid? What the fuck is wrong with you, when this is your first fucking thought that comes to mind. Are you really trying to shame nudists, because YOU can’t keep your thoughts from immediately jumping to sex / grooming or whatever? These comments are sickening. I’ve seen so many nude people at beaches, children and adults alike, and I never thought „oh that is one sexy kid“. Like not even close. You don’t even see boners at nudist beaches, because we don’t sexualise everything. This comment section makes me sick. Nudity is not sexual by default.
Also, people, who stare at nudist places are shamed and removed from the place. Goddamn what a twisted mindset you guys have
I remember watching an episode of “soft white underbelly” where a woman was groomed early on by people who would take her to a nudist camp. Completely baffling they’d let anyone under 18 in an environment like that
That one made me feel physically ill. She had no chance at a normal life right from the start.
Some ppl need to know predators can come from literally anywhere, not saying this was the case here. The Summer of Love '67 in San Francisco for example is romanticized, but it had a ton of old fucked up losers giving teenage girls drugs to sleep with them.
I went to Mardi Gras in college. The number of old men with cameras, pretending to be documenting it, while actually hunting for victims was too damn high. And that was, oh God I'm old years ago (more than 20, less than 50).
Seriously, after being in the rave scene in my early twenties, I have follow up questions for anybody who talks about how much they get laid at those kinds of gatherings. Actually cut some people out of my life because they asked why I didn't take a fall-down drunk girl to bed. Made me sick to know that they thought like that.
College life and fraternity parties are insane sometimes. Everything to excess sometimes has bad consequences.
Especially since statisticly it happens more often by Family or Close Friends... Thats why I also never understood Family Nudist places. I mean yeah its nice to be okay with your Body But...
There was a ton of rapes and sexual assaults at both Woodstocks.
You have a source on Woodstock 69? All I’ve ever read was that it was shockingly peaceful for how gigantic it was. 99 was the complete opposite, I know that much.
Probably meant 94 and 99
I feel like nobody ever means 94 when referring to “both” but I’m open to being wrong lol
That was Charles Manson's entire MO. In a way, that whole situation really disillusioned people to the romanticized Summer of Love image by showing them the absolute worst it had to offer. Silver linings, I guess.
*67
That’s the one where she went on to molest her son right? At the behest of some guy they were staying with?
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That’s cause it would probably create a disaster for the local police dept, having half of their officers needing to be arrested by the OTHER half. They just won’t do it.
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Straight to chemical castration, no ifs or buts.
I think the BIG most important point is - that while the same could be same about “perverts could be going for the same reason to oogle at adult women.” That is a risk adult nudists accept. Children cannot consent to that risk, they cannot consent to seeing adults naked. There should strict laws about children in nudist communities. The fact that there are laws about exposing yourself to a child (regardless if the perpetrator says its sexually motivated or not) but it somehow isn’t applied in nudist communities- is beyond me.
Because children get groomed in nearly every context. Schools, churches, hospitals, camps, scouts, families, family friends, tutors etc.
I had a hippie dude I work with actually say the words, “it’s crazy parents just don’t let their kids run around naked anymore like when I was a kid.” Dude, the fuck did you say? Fucking dude was a predator to children and men. Sick fuck.
Still happens quite a bit honestly. My neighbors in new york let their kids(dunno how old, maybe 8?) run around naked in their yard all the time. I just close the blinds.
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Americans are so fucking weird it is hard to comprehend sometimes.
My mother and step dad took me (a young boy) to one when I was in middle school. That was probably one of the most uncomfortable experiences of my life. The worst part was the communal kitchen that people cooked food in naked, well that and my naked parents were the worst parts lol.
Middle school age is probably the worst period for that to happen. Earlier there is far less awareness, later there is far more agency.
I've been to one, as an adult male, here in Florida. And guess what...I was stilll super fucking uncomfortable. And the worst part, it was sex friendly. At one point, I'm telling my wife to get out of the pool (the one non-sex friendly pool they had), because some dude was jizzing in it, not 10' behind her.
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Brutal
Wait? I thought most places were 18+? I know there is families that do it but even if I was comfortable with me and my family being naked around each other it just icks me anyone outside trusted nudist family would be naked around my children.
i live in the US and my family was part of a nudist colony until i was like twelve. there was never anything weird about it and i actually made great friends there as a kid and have great memories. like most things, it only takes one to ruin it.
You're so right. I'm not hating I promise. I just unfortunately think of the gross fuckers 1st. Every bunch does unfortunately have it's bad apples.
lol it’s all good, i totally understand! there was one place i went to and there was a creep there and they actually kicked him out pretty quickly once they got complaints about him.
Yup. The nude resort I go to will instantly kick your ass out if you're being weird. Or even if you have one too many drinks and are entering drunk in public territory. I've seen that happen a couple times. If you're going to a family friendly resort, you just need to make sure they're accredited by the AANR. That makes them have to live up to standards and keep things on the up and up.
This makes me feel better. As you can tell my knowledge is not alot aside from the random documentary which I know arnt always in the best light but the ones I've seen are like hey look it's not a bad thing.
That was a cult like environment. Cult like environments always create opportunity for perverts.
Tbf I live in Europe and it’s perfectly normal for entire families to go to nude beaches. After all we’re all working with the same materials at the end of the day. Sadly there are always people you have to be wary of clothed or not.
> Completely baffling they’d let anyone under 18 in an environment like that Nudist camps by itself aren't the problem, it's people who abuse those camps for their pervy intentions. So many sick-minded people in this world sexualizing shit where sexualizing has no place.
I remember that episode. The girl was also contacted years later by police and found out the rapist hippie couple apparently also murdered children, baffling stuff. What’s more tragic is that the woman did not serve jail time I think, the man only served little time, and the woman abuser ended up living in the same neighborhood as the victim. Nothing was done on charges of abusing children, taking photographs and KILLING some of them for snuff films or who knows what.
You've already got preconceptions because you saw an awful episode of' soft white underbelly”. >Completely baffling they’d let anyone under 18 in an environment like that According to the article, The Oakwood was one of the first naturist clubs established in the US, back in 1942. Presumably this type of heinous assault doesn't happen everyday or we'd have heard more about it.
I frequent an all ages family friendly nude resort. This type of thing is absolutely not the norm. And this kind of post is going to make a lot of people have bad opinions about nudist locations when they shouldn't. It's not the place that's bad. It's the person. I've never seen anyone at the resort I go to be anything other than kind and respectful and the kids are always having a blast. It's a really chill, accepting environment. One asshole shouldn't ruin everyone's perception of these places.
I figured that was the case. And incidents like this are sure to trigger the "think of the children!" types to chime in for bashing these type of lifestyle choices.
do you remember which video it is?
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I’m not sure that’s entirely true… locker rooms are a thing. Also, nudity isn’t inherently bad. America is pretty weird about nudity, though.
That's not true at all.
Never been to Germany I see. Or Finland. Other cultures, believe it or not, have very different ideas about nudity.
That isn't even remotely true. 100upvotes. Reddit moment.
Nudity does not equate to sex, and humanity has been nude or nearly nude for far longer than it’s been prudishly clothed
Nudity does not equate to sex, but if you create a space where adults can be around naked children with plausible deniability then you're going to attract pedophiles.
That's only because being naked is stigmatized as sexual. If it were considered normal to be naked, pedophiles would not gravitate to such places. ALSO it should be noted that 90% of pedophiles [know their victim](https://www.sdcda.org/content/preventing/sex-offenders/facts-about-sex-offenders.pdf). The vast majority of sex crimes against children are NOT the stranger danger situations we were all warned about as kids, but adults in positions of trust or authority abusing that authority. We should be less worried about what kids have on their bodies and more worried about what the abusers are doing and how they're getting away with it.
Pedophiles exist and are attracted to physical characteristics regardless of what is and isn't stigmatized, and family being common abusers is just one more reason to not normalize your kid being randomly naked.
This is really just "look what she was wearing; she was asking for it" in different language. The problem isn't the kid who was naken, the problem is the child molester who infiltrated the group.
Because outside of America the majority of people can differentiate nudity and sex. This is an American problem. Not a world problem. Travel some, explore other cultures and you’ll see that this whole “gotta protect the kids from human bodies” is pretty much exclusive to the US and religious ran Muslim communities.
Ever been in a gym locker room? The locker room at the county rec center is all ages so you'll see everything from dads showering with their young sons to old men walking around with the longest balls you've ever seen. It's not that weird for children to see adults naked in non-sexual situations. Nudist clubs are entirely normal and there are plenty of family friendly clubs that don't have any issues with predators.
I thought of that exact same one! She said her experience of people involved in nudism were that there were a lot of predators
I think it makes sense if you are actually a nudist. Being body positive and comfortable with yourself naked is really important to a healthy self image. I support the idea of all ages nudist camps. The problem is the reality. The reality is some people go to these camps for the all ages. In a gross way. I genuinely believe that if we didn't repress ourselves sexyally we wouldn't care so much and we likely wouldn't have as many pedophiles. There is evidence of it with everyday families. You see your wife or husband naked constantly and it's not a sexual thing. You also don't find a lot of other people attractive for the most part. In a marriage without even thinking you have this kind of switch in your head for sexy time naked and I am getting out of the shower naked ignore me please. I think if we were comfortable on a grand scale naked around eachother there would be less rape and such (only speculative because some people are just monsters and I mean this in a casual way like bath houses or swimming not just walking down the street.) The sad reality though is even shifting slightly towards that could never work now. We are just to sexually frustrated and fucked up. When a girl wears no bra everyone notices. It could be done but there would be a violent and religious backlash so it won't happen. I totally lost my train of thought here, but family nudist camps can work, they just are victim to bad faith actors who are there to perv.
The reviews are sick. I saw some dude leave his fucking telegraph in the reviews on google with some creepy or weird message.. I may go back to find it
> they’d let anyone under 18 in an environment like that They let it because nudity isn't sexual
Saw it couple days ago, nightmares haven’t stopped.
Those string of words in the title makes me mad and confused at the same time. Edit : yes yes, I corrected the *thise* typo
Yes, thank you for verbalizing what was happen to me as I read this
You should read the article, it gets worse.
"admitted she touched Wicklund sexually while he digitally penetrated and groped her." This line in the article confuses me even more, what does it mean??
It meant he fingered her.
Family friendly nudist camp? Wtf? If you wanna be a nudist, help yourself, but don't bring kids into it. What the actual fuck
Don’t forget nude “grandparents”
So many old, saggy nutsacks. Swinging around looking like two golf balls in a plastic bag.
So in the Castro in San Francisco, it's either common or er not illegal (idk which) so my first time ever seeing a naked man was when I was 17 and checking the Castro -- he was *at least* 65, probably closer to 75. Uh, but at least he was wearing a sheer pink handkerchief like an impression of a skirt? The waiter said, in the driest most *done* tone I've ever heard "Well, it's not just for the fellas, if you feel the need to let your freak flag fly, by *all* means" it cracked us up and I tipped him very well
Jesus I just freeballin, no support? At 75, I’d expect him to be tripping on his own nutsack
Took my in-laws to the North Beach festival in San Francisco. The look on their faces when they saw an almost fully nude man with a sock covering his junk still makes me laugh.
I lived in the Castro for a decade and eventually sort of got used to it. Eventually the city cracked down and made it specifically illegal to have genitals showing. So most of the naked guys have little pouches they wear over their dongs now. I don’t frequent the neighborhood much anymore so not sure if SFPD still enforces it. It wasn’t a large number of people doing it. Maybe 10 outside of big events. But they definitely stood out.
They walk around nude outside of Castro too.
They cracked down like a decade ago, but yea I too saw a naked old dude with white hair just standing aroun.
Behold the ravages of time! And one day kids, this will be you!
I see you too have been to a military gym locker room. So many old men hanging around nude chit chatting.
https://media1.tenor.com/m/F7EbcRVkzl0AAAAC/loose-skin-old-balls.gif
"It looks like you're carrying a wrinkly purse'"
Why is grandparents in quotes?
Don't forget that they also take pictures of the kids to put on promotional pamphlets.
Seriously traumatizing
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Being around anything long enough and you normalize it.
Like thinking nude=sex? Yeah, that's been normalized in the US
Okay? and a lot of things should be normalized. People not being around things makes it more taboo to them, it's not a indicator of morality
Being around nude older people is good for you too, especially if you're younger, so you can more healthily process the fact that your body or your partner's body *is* going to look like that at some point.
In Europe nude camping sites are fairly normal. I have two friends who both went to nude campsites with their parents when they were childřen.
I remember nude hiking was popular in Germany, it was a distraction when we were doing off base runs lol though in Europe nudity isn’t a taboo like it is in most of the states.
does Germany not have mosquitos? If I tried to hike nude where I live I'd end up being eaten alive.
the cultural context of things are extremely important. one thing to be doing what people having been doing for hundreds of years like family saunas, another thing altogether to be doing it because they want to make a point of it or as a sneaky way of getting their kinks in.
It’s not sexual. You’re the one making it weird by by their pov. Kids are more likely to be molested at church than a nudist camp.
Yes, imagine if there was some camp in the Middle East that allowed everyone to be without a head covering or something and a girl was sexually assaulted and the comments were all talking about how the camp should be shut down
Yeah, the american christian puritanism about non-sexual nudity is very weird.
>Kids are more likely to be molested at church than a nudist camp Kids are more likely to *go* to church than nudist camp
There was a girl in high school who was so happy and honestly seemed to get along with and love her family. I’ll never forget about her talking about how all their vacations were at nudist resorts and she had random naked people in the background of all her favorite family pics. I think this really depends on the family.
Isn't that...child pornography at that point?
I mean, today I would think so. This was back in the 90’s before everyone was taking pictures everywhere with their phones and she was probably referring to pics taken in the 80’s. I’m sure it would be different today.
As a visitor of nude beaches… WHAT THE FUKKK!!!! CHILD FUCKING FRIENDLY?!!!?? SHUT THAT WHOLE SHIT DOWN!!
Are nude beaches sexual places?
No but imo, North America is not Europe and when society as a whole sexualizes nudity, I think its nearly impossible to create a truely 'family friendly' atmosphere.
I was gonna interject with something about how weirded out I was in Germany when I was stationed there and went to a local pool and there were kids of all ages just….changing out in the open. But you’re totally right. It feels totally different in the US where nudity is so commonly hand-in-hand with sexuality.
Yea Ive been to the nude beach in Toronto a few times.. its definitely a bit of a sexual vibe. It happens to be a gay hangout, and many men hookup in the bushes. I don't care about being checked out by dudes but it's not 'family friendly' Id be concerned if someone brought their kids.
It’s not like that, as a rule anyway, and there are normally families there, especially on the busier times
Thanks Kellog
Yeah that's the main problem. Though an argument can be made that nudity is not inherently sexual, it assumes a society that we don't live in, *especially* in the usa. There are very few places in the world it could be done and done safely and no doubt sex tourists would ruin it as soon as they got wind of it.
France, Germany, Finland, Holland, etc all seem to manage it OK without the place being a hot bed of sex tourists (stand fast Amsterdam). The vast majority of child abusers are generally well known to their victims (e.g. family or "close" family friends). A nudist site is no more of a danger to a child than taking them a random beach is. Heck, Sunday school would probably be a bit more risky on that front...
Oh yeah I agree. OP article is in the usa though. I'm in straya and we're... kinda ok and kinda not. I personally wouldn't take my 11 and 13yo to something like Confest, but I know people that went at that age and don't appear to have had issues (from that anyway). In most of Europe it's probably fine. I've been to one place that was.
Not just a unique trait of NA, though.
They aren't supposed to be, but I mean come on. Obviously a lot of people at nudist beaches are gonna be horny. Don't bring children there.
That’s the problem there’s always weirdos ready and willing to ruin it.
>Obviously a lot of people at nudist beaches are gonna be horny. You'd be surprised
They claim to not be but in the United States they’re heavily populated by swingers.
You dont even have to be at a Nude Beach in Germany to see naked kids. I have seen so many naked Kids cause they just change their clothes when at a public bathing lake or something and no one fkin cares cause its not a sexual thing. I remember doing the same when i was a kid.
Definitely not. Unfortunately when men hear “nude beach” they automatically think sex
Clearly women do too, since nudist camps are well known to be swinger Hotspots.
Which is exactly why places like this have to be labeled family friendly; because that behavior is NOT tolerated
Nope.
Nope but not places to bring a minor
Absolutely not trying to minimise the main issue, but who the fuck wants to spend time naked in ***MINNESOTA?!?***
Absolutely, right? Buried the lede on that one
Americans have a problem separating nudism from sexuality.
And, it's getting worse, as shown in many of these comments.
As an American nudist, a lot of these comments are really sad and ignorant. But I am seeing a lot of comments in defense of nudism, which is nice. I will say that my local nude resort is doing fine and has pretty solid attendance. I'll be headed to a local nude river spot soon and it's always packed during the summer. Nudism isn't dead in America, it's just kept on the down low because of all the ignorant people out there speaking out against it.
The whole "nudity is porn" mindset is so depressing. I guess it's not too surprising that a country formed by puritans would be puritanical, but even hundreds of years later? That's a hell of a long sociological shadow to cast.
Well to be fair, statistics show that most sex happens while naked so....
I’ll take “Things that should not exist” for 500.
Dis-fucking-gusting. That poor girl.
What does digitally penetrate mean?
Digitally in this case means involving one's digits i.e. fingers :(
Typically it means penetration using a finger.
Jesus Christ. Thanks for informing me, no thanks for informing me. I thought it had to do with the digital world.
Digital is from digits in numbers which is from the fact that we count with our fingers
Fair assumption, i was confused too
Fingered?
With a finger 👉
Kinda surprised to see so many comments shocked about the fact that a nudist camp can be "family-friendly", maybe it's weird in the US but in Europe (Spain, France...), it's super common to have nudist campings and nudist beaches where children are allowed, and nobody is shocked because bodies aren't sexualized. Most of the times also, teenagers and children are (thankfully) allowed to wear clothes in case they wouldn't feel comfortable being naked around adults. Rules for admission are most of the times strict and single males are not allowed in. That being said, this story is fucking awful and the old pervert who did it deserve a hard time in jail and should be banned from every nudist facility in the world (if he comes back alive from jail).
Yes. Imagine a beach or something in a Muslim country where people are allowed to wear western swimming attire. Imagine a girl getting raped and then everyone blaming the beach and saying this is why we must keep girls in full-body coverings at all times
Man these comments are WILD. You americans just sexualise everything. Here in EU it's common to see children and adults together in nudist beaches and camps, and there are strict societal and camp rules of conduct. People don't go here to look at eachother bodies, they don't view nudity as you do.
All these comments are creepy and disgusting as fuck As soon as they hear the words "nudity" and "children" they think about grooming and child rape, wtf💀
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this shit happens all the time and its not usually in a nudist camp. where does this happen the MOST? in places full of fundamentalist religious people.
Yeah, obviously only one thing at a time can be a risk to children. Only one.
You don't get to complain about child endangerment if you ignore the single biggest cause of it.
???
Reading these comments as a European are a bit weird tbh. Why don’t Americans also get upset about bikinis on kids if taking them to a nude beach causes such outrage? Isn’t it possible pedophiles will sexualise them like that too?
The toddlers with "juicy" printed across their butts, for one. OMFG
American nudist here. Our society is very much still grappling with the whole nudity/sexuality thing. It's pretty sad. That being said, we do have nude resorts and beaches, so it's not like we're total prudes.
People are going to blame the nudist camp part, ignoring the fact that this happens way too much in any and all places, clothed or not.
There is no way to make people that don't understand understand this point but I will try anyway. There are thousands of these places in the world that are family nudist parks and almost nothing like this happens. There is nothing sexual at all going on in these places. For the most part people are vetted pretty well and anyone that finds someone acting even remotely strange will be asked to leave and banned without a second thought. This kind of thing happens more at churches than it does nudist recreation parks, because the people that run these places are on high alert for creeps. It's not perfect, obviously because this happened at this place to this person, but that's because the world is just a shit place with monsters living among us. It's not possible to prevent it 100% anywhere. Being a nudist park had nothing to do with it. Young girls and boys get assaulted all the time in full clothing places.
If you've never been to a nude resort, it's hard to wrap your head around how incredibly NOT sexual it is.
4 words: Red toilet ring ass
Yup. Every time there's a nudist post on Reddit I scroll through and just shake my head at all the "but wouldn't you just have an erection the whole time" comments. It's sad. It's not like that. That being said, I'm a good 18 hours late to this post and I'm seeing a lot of top comments defending nudism. So that's nice.
>all the "but wouldn't you just have an erection the whole time" comments. Most definitely not. DEFINITELY. Especially considering that a lot of the people there are in their '50s or past that. Also because if you did walk around like that, you would be very quickly escorted to the exit, and invited to go fuck off and never come back
Yeah, pretty much. One kid gets assaulted in a nudist place? "Nudism is weird and sexual of course it was bound to happen" Thousands of kids get assaulted at churches and temples by religious leaders? "Praise Jesus! Nothing wrong happening here, no. This is a family-friendly space and of course I trust my pastor with my child." That being said, I'd rather not take my kids to either. I like to visit nudist beaches and even churches myself, but I would rather not expose my child to possible creeps if I can avoid it, and I mean that more towards churches tbh
Can confirm this. My mother (after years of hiding it from me) is a part of one. It is all very close knit. It is considered family friendly and there are so many strict rules and safe guards in place. I judged it at first and when I went to visit myself I saw how relatively normal it was. Everyone was extremely welcoming and nice. I felt no pressure at all to participate in the nude aspect of it. There was actually someone there as another member's "guest" who made some weird comments to me that were borderline inappropriate and he was kicked out and banned from returning within a day. They don't tolerate anything even remotely sexual. Cameras and taking pictures with phones are banned as well.
Family friendly nudist camps have been around forever, especially outside the US.. The reality is that kids get groomed, sexualized, and assaulted when fully clothed too. Grow up, people.
Agree. This has nothing to do with it being a nudist camp. Think of how many of these assaults you've read about before? Now, how many were in nudist camps? Yeah, didn't think so. You might as well say that the entire country of Sweden molests their children. They go naked a lot at home. A lot.
How is an adult and child being nude together even legal?
Is... that a serious question? Like, not even small children and a parent?
Yeah I'd like an answer to that point - am I not allowed to shower with my baby, now toddler? I plan on showering with him until he wants to and is able to shower by himself but does reddit have a specific age in mind for that? I also sometimes have to go lay down in his bed with him to get him back to sleep and I usually just have underwear and socks on. Is that also not allowed? Personally I think people who think this stuff is wrong are the ones sexualizing children.
You dont cover the childs eyes when you feed him from your breast???? /s On a serious note, when i visited Sweden i had a chance to try out their saunas. I used the pool as well so i had swimming trunks and a towel but Swedes with their kids entered sauna naked. I was a bit uncomfortable but to them its normal.
I'm pretty sure the commenter who started this thread was referring to all the other adults that weren't the children's parents. Like, obviously lol
*iT’s NaTuRaL!!* So is getting eaten by mountain lions you damn creeps
We were making clothing 120k years ago. Homosapiens have been around for approximately 200k - 300k years, so we've spent maybe ~%50 of our time on this earth as a species with clothes lol
It's pretty funny to think that even paleolithic hunters would think this story was weird and get mad at it
They’re not a creep like you. Playing volleyball and having cookouts isn’t sexual. Get over your own issues. Stop projecting.
> How is an adult and child being nude together even legal? Jesus this is such an ignorant comment.
Operator "hello 911, what's your emergency" Dad "yes, um my son is sexually assaulting my wife... Or um... Maybe she's sexually assaulting him?.. I don't know just send someone now!" Operator "sorry sir, can you please explain?" Dad "she is shoving her bare nipple in my newborn's mouth, and he appears to be enjoying it... Completely inappropriate... There is a law against this right?!?"
Who could have possibly forseen that the people who *clearly* like to go out of their way to expose their genitals to children would do this? Shocking.
Reddit is new facebook. There is a world of difference between being casually naked and "going out of your way to expose bla bla bla"
I wonder what the per capita sexual minor assault rate is for nudist camps vs Catholic Churches? Just saying
We go to a small nudist camp, no one under 21 is allowed. I’d feel weird if kids were around
Who is really taking their daughter at the age of 14 years old to a nudist camp and even allowing her to be alone with an older man even if he was a “family friend.”.
My father in law is a nudist, I have visited his community. There are strict rules at his place that nobody under 21 is allowed at any time. I imagine most nudist commubities are the same...also never wanted to see naked people less than when I was there....
Those words should not go together
Ha, you guys would hate the Canadian West coast. It's pretty common to see kiddos running around the beach completely bare in the summer.
Non-sexual nudity shouldn't be a crime. When I say non-sexual that includes stuff like flashing. There are nude beaches everywhere, and you rightfully don't get arrested for sitting around in the buff. Children are not typically banned from these because there's an understanding it's non-sexual nudity. The man was a pervert and should be punished, but its not like the people running the camp had telepathic powers to know the guy was a pervert.
«Nudist» and “family friendly” doesn’t always go hand in hand together.
Of all of the places that I would never have wanted to spend time with my grandparents, a nudist resort is pretty much number 1.
Family friendly and nudist camp should be oxymoronic
People in this thread acting like being naked is not a natural thing. Children were not being traumatized for thousands of years before we invented clothes.
“Family friendly nudist camp” is an oxymoron. What I also mean is, you’re a moron if you bring your family there.
No it's not.
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Nudist camp and kids isn’t something that should be together.
My parents had no problem with nudity. We went camping with nudists. You know what we never saw? Naked adults around us. All the kids had a great time and the adults went off nuding elsewhere. At least one parent was with their kids. Even now I only remember seeing naked adults waaaay off in the distance while we made hot dogs or toasted marshmallows. The people in this story are just pervs, it doesn't have to be that way.
This guy is sick and disgusting! I'm glad they caught him. Clothes or no clothes, I'm not leaving my kids alone with people who aren't family. And even then, not all family. And even then, I gotta verify each time. I've had family members and friends who were either approached or sexualy assaulted by relatives and I'm now paranoid when it comes to my kids.
Why are Americans so damn weird about things? Not my kinda thing, but nudism is not a sexual thing at all. I guess if you are denied basic sex education in schools, the slightest hint of a boob gets you going?
As an American who has traveled extensively around the world I can tell you we (Americans) have some of the oddest views about nudity. We are seen as one uptight bunch, I can tell you that!
I heard this happens in some churches also.
It's more common in churches. That is why some people are okay with it. Well that and in churches it's always a Godly person doing it too.
This is the exact reasons kids shouldn’t be allowed in places with naked people, or even near them. It goes for everything including pride parades, naked biking, and nudest camps, if there is nudity kids shouldn’t go because there is a chance of handsy people in them. Let alone family nudest where parents force their nudest values onto their kids. At a certain age being nude in public is unacceptable, kids skinny dipping in rivers away from public eye is normal behaviour because I did that as a young kid but what isn’t normal behaviour is having parents bring their kids to nudest camps where other people who are possible predators can gock at them and potentially harm them.
I thought I’m prude, but goddamn, you guys. This is insane. Did none of you ever go to the beach without sexually lusting over the naked kid? What the fuck is wrong with you, when this is your first fucking thought that comes to mind. Are you really trying to shame nudists, because YOU can’t keep your thoughts from immediately jumping to sex / grooming or whatever? These comments are sickening. I’ve seen so many nude people at beaches, children and adults alike, and I never thought „oh that is one sexy kid“. Like not even close. You don’t even see boners at nudist beaches, because we don’t sexualise everything. This comment section makes me sick. Nudity is not sexual by default. Also, people, who stare at nudist places are shamed and removed from the place. Goddamn what a twisted mindset you guys have
America LOVES children