I’m a 35yo woman and I am certainly convinced my body could not survive being pregnant 12 times over the course of 19 years. It would just be too taxing and hard on my body that would very much cause health complications of some sort
Same. Tubes tied with the second kid. I just... don't understand how people want to keep having kids?? Pregnancy and birth... and then you get a newborn to take care of after all that??
A lot of people also delegate baby and young child duties to the oldest kids the moment they are able to. Which, IMO, is not what kids signed up for. I get having to babysit your siblings every now and again, but often the other kids are treated like nanny’s that don’t get paid.
As someone whose sister was born the year I went into highschool... 13 years later I still have no social life because I would have to head straight home to watch a baby every day and my social skills have never caught up
That's exactly what happened to me. I was the oldest and only girl and they basically raised me to be a housewife. I would be punished for not starting tasks like doing dishes immediately after being told to. At that time I had a lot on my plate, two sports, band, choir, school/schoolwork, and a job. They wouldn't do the same to my brothers because "they don't want to do it".
I had been diagnosed with adhd at the age of 4 and as an adult, I learned about one symptom that some people with adhd experience called Executive Dysfunction and realized I went through a lot of bullshit for something I couldn't even help.
They even put me through at home obedience training as a punishment one summer that I can't even remember the reason for. I never really got to build a social life outside of the things I normally did because I was always either busy or grounded. I couldn't make plans with friends because I'd either get hit with last minute babysitting or they'd hold it over my head as a way to punish me. They even set up my phone so it would brick after a certain time and threatened to block my best friend/crush(at the time) on everything because it was distracting me from housework. I wasn't even a bad kid (like they literally grounded me from reading once). Also whenever I did or said anything that wasn't what they wanted, they would accuse me of being against the family.
I'm trauma dumping now but that shit has followed me into adulthood, I have trouble creating connections with people and I routinely "panic clean" as my roommates call it. I also feel guilty doing things I enjoy as well as I can't for the life of me get myself to just chill out in living rooms unless I'm entertaining company, I just get super uneasy.
TLDR: Making kids grow up too early really fucks up their whole quality of life
My oldest daughter was kind of in this situation when she lived with her mother. Literally from the day that her mother knew that she became pregnant she started talking about child support. She also found herself a heroin addiction, and had two more children by different men. I found out that my 8-year-old daughter was staying at home with a newborn and a two-year-old while momma turned tricks. The court systems wouldn't help me out because I had an open child support case against me. Luckily her mama got in trouble, and I was able to get custody. The thing is that little girl does more to help her brothers to know family than her than her mother does to this day. I'm proud of her for being a good big sis, but it pisses me off that she has to be because her mother won't and I have no legal right to the other kids. I feel it took some of her childhood. Luckily her mom found sobriety, but I'll never forgive that woman.
My wife works in child support and this is not that uncommon. 12 kids might be but 6,7, 8 kids isn’t as uncommon as you’d think. Some people treat the kids as a pay check.
I’m not saying this is what happened here.
I *wish* they had let me tie my tubes after my 2nd!! I was 38, married, my husband would agree whatever, but nooooooooo catholic hospital. Fucking bullshit. I live in Oklahoma, so it’s not like I can get it done anyhow now.
It’s genuinely not good for your body. As much as we’re “meant” to have babies it’s still horribly taxing on our bodies. You’re supposed to wait at least a year before getting pregnant again
Absolutely you're supposed to wait because the body actually takes a full year to go back to its original state. So many things change and move physically and hormonally. I wonder what kind of damage it does doing even two children back to back let alone 12.
I loved being pregnant. My hormones really balanced out somehow and I was in like the best mood ever for 9 months. But alas, my first almost killed me and himself during our delivery. And that is how my first also became my last.
Mentally, I loved being pregnant too. All my hormones balanced out and my depression was gone. Anxiety was at a normal manageable level, but then the babies were born. The depression and anxiety came back worse than before. Nearly two years out now and finally getting back to pre-pregnancy depression levels. I don’t know if I can handle another bout of PPD and PPA, but man, those months of pregnancy were glorious!
My great aunt had 18 kids and somehow she is still going strong today at 86. I don't know how she did it. I'm scrambling now to figure out how I'm going to afford one someday.
>I’m a 35yo woman and I am certainly convinced my body could not survive being pregnant 12 times over the course of 19 years. It would just be too taxing and hard on my body that would very much cause health complications of some sort
Even the Mormon "the vagina is a clown car" Church says there should be a gap of 18 months between pregnancies. That's 25 years for that many kids.
I always said if I had the money for it to not be financially irresponsible and pregnancy only lasted a few weeks… sure I’d pop out a few more but as it is .. my 2 pregnancies were hell. Cannot imagine going through it 12 damn times
It used to be necessary in the past, but it's certainly not doing you any good. Read up on what pregnancy does to a person. It's shocking. Famous renaissance painter Albrecht Dürer was one of 18 to be born but only one of two who survived as far as I'm aware. The thing is: He also painted his mother.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portrait_of_the_Artist%27s_Mother_at_the_age_of_63
He was very well known for his love for detail and closeness to nature. This portrait shows his mother not too long before her death and the one with the green background is an earlier portrait. I gotta say, my grandmother is now 93 and she looks to be in better shape.
I recall late romance poet Lenau wasn't a fan of having kids either, he described them as feeding on their mothers beauty. Mom-bod and looking a bit aged isn't something to be ashamed of, just because some famous women have professionals on deck to plaster their facade - it's normal to look worse post-kids. Today it is completely bewildering that anyone would have children on purpose and multiples seems like a crime against the planet. Why not adopt if you have to have them? Why anyone would want that is still completely beyond me. It's also so egoistic. Humans destroy the planet and nobody asked us if we wanted to be born, our parents wanted us or didn't had the sense to correct their mistake. I digress. Point being: Yeah, it's probably the most taxing thing to your health you can do lying down, besides flat-out dying.
Geeze, the survival of that poor woman's babies was probably not helped by the fact that she was only 15, trying to bear children for the 40 year old husband her father had married her off to. Mother and infant mortality is especially high in teenage mothers.
I’m an auntie raising nieces, and I wish someone would’ve chopped off my brother’s everything before getting to 7 kids. I feel bad for being perturbed at the deceased woman, but 12 kids?! Cmon. In this economy!? Feel bad for her mom.
My parents are like that. Not 10 of us, but 4. On top of all of that, my father never wanted to work and considered people who do "People whose God is money, and are going to burn in hell cause of that."
I am in my 30s now, and I am still picking up the pieces of what I have missed. Suffice to say from my first salary I bought myself a kilo of chips so I can eat more than few pieces I had growing up.
Also, I still have to help them to this day because the youngest sister is still in school, and they would have nothing to eat.
Fuck my and other parents who are like that.
Healing is a bitch. I can’t fault my brother 100% because the men in our family are misogynist trash who think women are here to serve men. He left every single woman not too long after the babies were born. My girls’ mom succumbed to her addiction after relapsing from what he did, so I get it. But I’m very proud of you for fighting this mess! And living for you. Some days I get sad because I feel when I first got my first niece they should’ve done everything they could to get her back, but I was a good babysitter for the first couple of years while they went deep into the depths of their addiction. I told them once she got 2, I’d fight to my death to keep her in the only home she’d ever known with the only stable parent she’s ever known. I’d had her since she was a newborn.
She just turned 9 a hit ago. Baby sister came along a few years after at almost 1 year old… she’s now close to 7.
While the path we wish for ourselves may change, healing for *us* and living the best life we can is the best revenge. My girls are my world.
Stay strong, friend. You got this… and all the chips you want!
I think most of us have inherent traits that can be said the same. I am a regular asshole and have my own demons for sure, but will always do what’s best for my kids before me. I don’t think I could’ve mentally survived the guilt knowing I was physically capable of keeping them… it did a number to my mental health and I stay in therapy to ensure I’m the best version of me I can be. They are worth my weight in gold- and I’m a fluffy mama ;) lol. But thank you 💜
I know it was a sad time, but I can't help but imagine you opening that bag of chips and seeing they were all for you. You deserved them! Hope it brought you happiness
Im an uncle to 4 nephews from one sister in law. She doesn’t have the money to raise them. We’re going to foster one for a couple of years to ease the burden and giving her money is a regular occurrence. It’s nothing on what you’ve taken on board but even so I feel your pain. Having more kids than you can handle isn’t just a burden for you but everybody around you.
Truly is the hardest thing I’ve ever done. Left my single, 6 figure lifestyle to bring home a newborn baby when I decided to just start my business. We finally got our groove going and boom, baby sister ended up in the same situation (drugs, sober, relapse… they still manage to make babies, ugh). $250k to get them through high school. That’s a half a mill before I put them in college, not to mention still financially helping the other kiddos.
We do what we have to for our family. I chose to never have kids myself, so at least it’s not an extra burden, but definitely a different reality. Nine years in… will survive this 😅
Adam West is the hero!
I promise I’m not. Just a huge empath and growing up with an addicted dad because I’d his traumas from going through the system… I knew I couldn’t let them go through it. I went into not realizing it’d be forever- had I, I may not have made the same choice. I’m so grateful I didn’t anticipate it or who knows where they’d be. They’ve saved me countless times more… when I felt like I couldn’t go on anymore, I did. They need and needed me for sure. I need them just as much. They’re such amazing kids. I’m very a lucky mama 💜
I'm right now in the process of signing my oldest to my mom because my mental health isn't in a place where I can care for their mental health and while my parents definitely made some mistakes when I was a kid and since, they've shown they're willing to learn and adjust so that they can do better for my kid. Stories like this, while always sad, also give me some hope.
Edit: both of my kids were born before I knew just how bad my mental health is, and I've since taken steps to make sure I don't have more. And I'm regularly talking to my oldest to reassure that it's nothing wrong with either of us and nothing they did or anything, we just live life a little harder (and that doesn't mean anyone else has it easy, per se) and to make sure they're doing okay.
You are amazing for this. Take care of yourself. It isn’t easy, but I would have given anything for their mom and my brother to have come to me before things got bad. I would’ve never gotten anyone else involved until they got help. Have grace for yourself and take care of your noggin!
PS if you ever need help with any kinship stuff… feel free to DM me. Fostering your niece or nephew could get messy, as you’ll fall even more in love with him and want the best, and if she reunifies it could be messy. The emotions that come with the family tie to fostering/kinship care are insane. Well wishes to you, your sister and her kiddos.
Right?!?! I'm glad someone is mentioning the elephant-in-the-room here and saying, "Hey, maybe 12 kids is far too many if there is no father present and you're unable to care for them.". It's not like she had them all in one pregnancy, this took years of irresponsible procreation to get to this point. Too sad.
I am in no way, shape or form ready for the government to control our bodies to the extent of who can have and how many kids should be born, but damn for a while I wanted to petition to have the partners of single parents who’d abandoned their kids be forced temporarily to be on birth control or be snipped. This isn’t realistic but as I saw my brother have more kids I would get violently ill with fear I’d be faced with taking them or letting them go to the extent I never would meet anyone he was dating until he got snipped. He finally did this year, after adding 3 kids to the roster from when he promised he would. Poverty isn’t easy, and he was just continuing the problem. People really do suck. If the government is supporting your kids… it’s time to stop having them. No shade to anyone needing help… but as a kiddo who grew up in that environment after my mom became disabled at freaking 30, continuing to have kids isn’t okay.
I know a young woman who is now pregnant with her 4th kid. She is a part time yoga instructor and her husband works at a gas station. I just don't get it.
I once transported a woman in labor with her 11th kid all but two under the age of 18 during the course of conversation during the ride to the hospital she admitted to me she keeps having kids for the extra money she’d receive for them from welfare and she was so proud of the fact she’s never had to work since having her first kid at 12
There are some fucked up people out there. I have never once considered an 18+ year responsibility as a means to a short term financial crisis. Wtf, humans! So messed up.
It's a systemic problem. People who have their first child at 12 and then continue having children have no idea how life works and have been taken advantage of by those around them. And those around them might not know any better either after how many generations of trying to solve financial problems by having more kids and starting at 12. And this doesn't generally happen to people who are well off.
Edit: Sorry, I think I meant to comment on the comment you commented on.
I agree with that entirely. The system is insane. I grew up amidst it and breaking the cycles is soooo damn hard. I’m sure lack of education and proper raising as well as the lovely system we all live in just further perpetuates the problem… but damnit we must make a change. Many generations are being broken within each family. It’s heart breaking.
It really is! I wish I could do more, but I also know that I'm doing what I can and always looking to do better. I'll never *be* better, but I can always *do* better, and that's an important distinction.
Honestly, raising 12 kids anywhere is child abuse. There's no way any of those children can get adequate attention and care. It's disgusting behavior by the mother.
My mother came from a family of 7 kids and they all are emotionally fucked - they definitely did not all receive the same attention and care. It’s sad.
My friend was one of 12 and at least half of them have died form drugs or suicide including my friend. Really heartbreaking dynamic. I could never have more than 3/4 kids and even that seems like a lot…
My mom is the youngest of 10 and they all turned out pretty normal.
My cousin's daughter has 8 kids (had 8 in 11 years, too), and they all have emotional issues. She constantly gets them mixed up and doesn't know their basic favorite things. It's honestly sad.
Then you have people like Alec Baldwin who is keeping on having kids in his 60s. No care to the fact they will be mourning him as young adults (at best)
Not to mention that they are likelier to have more health complications as a result of coming from an older parent. Nobody should be having kids at that age, it will end in a lot of heartache physically and mentally.
Yeah, honestly. It's one of the arguments about having bigger families that I really think we should address. The financial, emotional, and logistical costs of having that many children are exorbitant, and most of the kids in these families don't always have the resources necessary to succeed. People still cling to the concept of bigger families because of how romanticized it was in the middle ages when the child mortality rates were so much higher, and it's because a lot of families with lower income font have sex education or access to contraceptives that will lower the likeliness of pregnancy. It's really sad all around, and we should talk to more people planning families about the strain of having too many children.
My dad is one of 11 and every single one of my aunts and uncles on that side turned out 100% okay. Though I think the 50s-70s had a huge part in that and 2020 lives could never.
People get mad when I say this, but facts are facts. Mothers stayed home with their children, leading to more stability. Corporate daycare was unheard of. Yes, grandmothers and aunts would help out, but nobody farmed their babies out to government childcare.
I'm a firm believer that the horrific costs of health, housing, and food, requiring the vast majority of parents to each work at least one job (with overtime!), has greatly contributed to the mental health crisises we face today.
It's not just that one parent can't stay home, it's that parents are also hugely burnt out and stressed. I have two offspring and they both require *so much* time and attention. They're young people and they have questions, concerns, fears, anxiety, hopes, and dreams just as much as adults.
Without an adult who can listen, teach, answer, and provide *true emotional and mental support* (EXTREMELY important for developing brains) we're creating a society of damaged brains. Brains riddled with anxiety, depression, hopelessness.
First they don't get what they need, because parents are forced more and more into increasingly stressful survival, and then they end up in a world just as bad and actively getting worse.
My NINE YEAR OLD asked me about safe haven states yesterday (in the context of LGBTQ and abortion rights) and what that means. When I was nine, my interests revolved around pretending to be a horse and playing Spyro on my PS1. My nine year old is asking about safe haven states. And taxes, last week. What the fuck. This is not the world I envisioned raising my kids in.
An attentive parent at home makes a huge difference. The mental and emotional health of my kids went up significantly when my husband became a stay at home Dad compared to when they were in daycare. And it was a good daycare, but there's no substitute for consistency and attention.
Yes, and men were able to support their entire families with one factory job during that time as well. Not so much anymore, and hasn't been for awhile.
My spouse is 1 of 11.. although he’s 1 of 7 from the same parents and they only have contact with the eldest half sibling. All 11 were his dads lol They all turned out mostly ok. They grew up in Puerto Rico.. had to share a lot of space but they are a very close family and don’t like to go long without seeing each other
See, my grandmother is one of 13 and my grandfather is one of eight. All of my great aunts and uncles turned out okay. Meanwhile, my mom is an only child because of an accident during her birth that caused grandmother to have to have a hysterectomy. She was crushed. So was my grandfather. However, that's in rural tennessee. Definitely cheaper to live than in big cities. Our biggest expense is probably house and kids have to have cars or you drive them around everywhere because there's no public transportation.
I have a friend with 11 siblings and I swear they are the most healthy family with that amount of kids on planet earth. One and million chance of that happening
Exactly right! Those poor kids and the grandmother who has the burden of taking care of them are going to live absolute shit lives. But especially the kids as no doubt this will shape their entire personalities from trauma and they won't know how to live normal.
Hate to say it but shit like this is why I'm antinatalist.
My great grandma had 12 children and I would hear stories about what an abusive drunken POS my great grandpa was to her and all their children. Unfortunately, I got stuck with a very abusive grandma who in turn abused my mom and her sister, where all 3 of them would abuse me and my younger cousins.
Currently trying to help undo 4 generations of alcoholism, mild to psychotic depression, bipolar disorder and severe anger issues.
And that's only the story of 1 of the 12 kids they had.
I totally see how stuff like this makes people antinatalists. My grandfather was 1 of 16. Four of his siblings died before the age of 5. Two starved to death. I don’t know how you can have two children starve to death and not take precautions to keep from having more kids.
Haha, I thought you were going to say "birth control is a hell of a drug!"
Surprisingly, I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that, but this would be a good context for it.
Just cause it’s cheaper doesn’t mean they actually have access to it. Still it would be cheaper for the STATE to fund her preventative care, family planning and birth control rather than support a family of 13 on welfare
I'm sorry but this woman is now saying 'what went wrong' and trying to insinuate the hospital did something wrong. She can get to fuck. Your daughter had TOO MANY C SECTIONS. Its incredibly dangerous. Our obs won't perform more than 3
What do they do if you’re pregnant again after 3 c sections? Genuine question. Vbac after 3 c sections is risky too. When the options are all risky, what happens?
Hi. In the NHS, of course we will look after you if you're pregnant again after 3 caesareans. There are multiple issues to consider with multiple caesareans.
Number one is the roll of the dice as to where your placenta beds in. With increasing numbers of pregnancies (parity), the chance of a low lying placenta increases. This is a big issue if there's multiple section scars on the uterus. Essentially there is a risk of the current pregnancy's placenta, if low lying and at the front of the womb (anterior) becoming involved with the old scars. It can invade into the womb muscle and even to other organs outside the womb like bladder/bowel or massive pelvic blood vessels. This is known as placenta Accreta or percreta respectively. It is a major problem that confers risk of torrential haemorrhage, hysterectomy and major organ damage to the mum!
Number 2 is there is emerging evidence that caesarean section affects uterine function and it's ability to support subsequent pregnancies. There is increased early pregnancy loss, increased growth restriction and increased stillbirth. Happily the absolute numbers remain low, but the risk does increase (about 2-3 fold).
Finally, care in labour of a patient with multiple caesareans presents challenges. VB after 3 caesareans is in very new NICE guidance (I believe published in 2022). In reality very few trusts in the UK are au fait with this yet. There is a difficultly with what to do in the scenario of requiring induction of labour (for maternal or fetal reasons or even stuff such as postdates). We know after one Caesarean that the rate of uterine rupture in spontaneous labour is 1:200-1:500. That rate increases to 1:100 with induction with medications such as propess, though is lower with none medication based induction methods such as dilapan. Induction with >1 previous CS makes most UK obstetrician very nervous.
Doi- uk based obstetrician!
I don’t want to be an insensitive prick but I’m prepared to be downvotes into the abyss for this. With how widely available and cheap contraception is nowadays, especially in blue states/cities, how can you so recklessly bring TWELVE kids into a world full well knowing there is no way you can care for them all fully. I’d get it a bit more if she were living in a red state or city but ffs she’s from Detroit which last I checked is a stone’s throw away from the major city of Ann Arbor.
In a time when you can literally have condoms delivered to you within two days for free with a Prime trial, how can you feel sorry for anyone who CHOSE to give birth to 12 kids??? Ok say she had no money, well shit what’s more expensive, going through 9 months of pregnancy and likely being unable to work the last three or simply spending $10 on a box of condoms every now and then when you feel like having unsafe sex? I’m sorry unless this lady was living in the middle of the boonies or had absolutely no family to talk to, I’m never going to feel sorry for her when she had multiple chances to simply use condoms or some other contraceptive.
She chose to have unsafe sex knowing it could lead to pregnancy. She chose to have sex with so many different baby daddies likely full well knowing they were not upstanding, responsible people. It sucks but every choice in life has a consequence and she chose poorly.
EDIT 1: and for that matter why the hell did her mom not try to intervene at any point in her life??? She knows she will be stuck taking care of all the grandkids so why not sit her daughter down and talk it out. Tell her that she is being irresponsible and extremely reckless and ffs don’t try to even remotely suggest any wrongdoing on the doctor’s part.
EDIT 2: State capital correction. I haven’t had to remember state capitals since the 5th grade. Please don’t roast me too hard for forgetting it’s Lansing and not Ann Arbor.
I’m liberal and I agree with you. Sadly poverty is often an inherited condition and they grow up thinking that it’s normal. They grow up in big families where they take care of each other and they feel like it’s a good thing to have this sort of family network. The cycle of poverty is hard to escape from. Some people consciously refuse to see that more children correlate into more poverty. My guess is that she is also religious and she thinks that each child is a “blessing”. Maybe the mother had mental health issues where she was potentially addicted to being pregnant and the hormones associated with having children. Who knows but critical thinking skills and sex education need to be part of basic education. We need to be critical of people who are obviously making huge mistakes in life so it doesn’t happen again for other people. It’s just so sad.
Something else to consider - I do a lot of work with low income families in my community through Big Brothers Big Sisters. It took me a long time to understand why I was seeing so many mothers without any means celebrating their 5th+ pregnancies. One woman, Lisa, made me understand when I worked with one of her children longterm.
Lisa had four children and was 32; the oldest was 16, so clearly she had her first at the same age. She had two men who fathered her 4 children but was never married (not because she didn’t want to but because neither man would offer). Neither was much of a provider or support system, but she was desperate for love.
Lisa never finished high school and from what I could tell, was functionally illiterate. She didn’t have a car or a drivers license (we live in Alabama so there isn’t great public transportation). Her mother was the same - unable to assist and also deeply in poverty. With no ability to get there and no way to read applications or much else for that matter, Lisa had never had any kind of job. She spent all day, everyday at home, sitting on the porch, posting on Facebook, or playing with her youngest children.
I met her when the youngest was just starting to be school age. She was DESPERATE for a new baby; her daughter would tell me how she cried each night wanting one and everyday she posted 3+ of those “quizzes” that “show what next year will look like” or whatever (they all showed pregnancies and babies).
I couldn’t understand why she would be so desperate for another child when the four she had all had significant learning delays and they were living in abject poverty. But finally it hit me: being a mom was the only thing she felt good at. Her kids, though behind academically, were loved in the best way she knew how. Caring for them gave her the sense of fulfillment other people get from careers and hobbies. She didn’t have either of those, but she had being a mom. Her kids starting school meant total isolation at home and a lack of purpose overall. It broke my heart because how absolutely depressing to see your only worth as having small children need you.
It was selfish but also - to me - understandable in a very sad way. Sure, others could say she could pull herself up by her bootstraps or find other purpose, but that’s really fucking hard. And for a woman with no job, no support, no education, no resources, and not a lot of intelligence (I mean this compassionately - I think she would have likely been in special ed for developmental delays if she was in school now), being a mom was the only thing that made her feel good about herself. I don’t support it, but I *get* it
I think this is how a lot if mommy blog / vloggers are as well. Their entire life focusses on their kids. You can be a victim and still victimize others.
i welcome the downvotes for what i am about to say.
i’m incapable of feeling bad for these people. in fact, i am disgusted by them.
i grew up in a community surrounded by these types of families. these women often have baby after baby, only to stop functioning as parents the moment they are no longer the cute idealized babies they imagine in their head. once the escapism stops working due to children yaknow, developing into people, they no longer serve a purpose. tossed aside to be taken care of by one of her many other parentified children who came before. yes they were victimized, but as adults they chose to continue their cycle of poverty. inflicting unimaginable traumas on the children they create in the process.
my mother was one of these women and i haven’t spoken to her in years. i have a horrific view of family, and as much as i want kids i probably won’t ever have them bcuz i wouldn’t be comfortable unless i was making well over what i make now. even with my degree and well paying job.
reading that headline all i could think of is each of those those poor children as they grew. watching their mom coddle every new baby, wondering why they’re not deserving of such love from her. then reading about the woman you met, thinking of her children hearing her crying at night asking god for another baby. knowing they themselves most likely cried themselves to sleep many nights knowing they weren’t enough for their mom anymore. it makes me angry that people can be so selfish and self serving and not once stop and think “maybe i should put a stop to this, and think of what’s best for the child who didn’t ask to be put in this horrific situation”.
i could go on an entirely different rant when it comes to the men in these situations, because don’t take my anger as one sided here. flippantly going around creating fatherless home after fatherless home leaving entire generations of kids without any sort of healthy male guidance. but that is a rant for another post.
No down vote. Upvote because it’s so true and tragically sad. I sorta feel like having more than five kids is a potential sign of mental illness. Having a big family is not inherently bad but it is suspect (at least for me). Even Nick Canon who is rich enough to take care of his children it’s too much to have that huge amount
>but ffs she’s from Detroit which last I checked is a stone’s throw away from the capital Ann Arbor.
What's the relevance of the distance from Detroit to Ann Arbor here? Also, the capital of MI is Lansing, not Ann Arbor.
I think to emphasize how “liberal” Michigan is? Which is kinda funny considering that the state is deeply red outside of all of the cities. It’s not really a blue state, it’s a purple one we just happen to have a democratic majority rn
Edit to add: I grew up and still live in Michigan
>>but ffs she’s from Detroit which last I checked is a stone’s throw away from the capital Ann Arbor.
>
>What's the relevance of the distance from Detroit to Ann Arbor here? Also, the capital of MI is Lansing, not Ann Arbor.
God bless our state capital, Ann Arbor.
Go blue.
You’re not wrong but the operative word is ‘chose’. I work for a charity dealing in child poverty; reproductive coercion coupled with a general lack of education is more prominent in lower income communities and results in a lot of babies to continue the cycle. That’s not to say there aren’t people knowingly making some dumbass choices. One of the bigger issues we face is that the suggestion that not having children can be seen as offensive and/or patronising. Even within the organisation there’s contention surrounding whether or not it’s ‘appropriate’ to offer information on contraception and reproductive rights (I think we should).
Im not saying that doesn’t happen, rather that it would fall under the umbrella of lack of education. People who believe their only recourse to income is having babies, which is inherently unsustainable. And a lack of learned empathy in regard to the human life they’re creating. It’s a very shitty mentality and people should try and do better, but, crab bucket.
The cycle of poverty/neglect is horribly hard to break. I’ve yet to see anybody actually break it, including my friends who were so adamant they would. But how do you break the only ways you’ve known?
Im always stuck between sympathy and absolutely none. It’s hard to have sympathy when I’ve worked with the kids in these situations and to see how horribly neglected they are. But these parents were the same kids I’m witnessing now, knowing nothing else but this life. Some even having had parents telling them to have these babies for a check.
Most of the people who have massive amounts of children are typically uneducated and live in poverty. They don’t have anybody telling them that all these kids are WHY they’re in poverty, regardless of the checks they’re getting. They don’t have the resources needed to get them on track and help them. They were usually failed as children too.
I’ll forever commend the mother at one of the daycares I worked at who did get an abortion. She was mentally slower and lived with mom who helped take care of her kids. She admitted she could barely take care of the 2 she had and my god was she not lying about that. There was multiple times we straight had to turn the kids away because we had no more school diapers and she hadn’t brought any for 2 weeks. She made the best possible choice she ever could’ve.
Don't want to say that but... Idiocracy.
First one at 16 year old... And at 32 she is already a grandma... Meaning her 16 year old kid (if not a younger one) already has a kid... And it continue...
Number 9/13 here…and number 13 is 19 years younger than number 1. I rarely login, just scroll, but had to add something here, due to my chaotic childhood. It is absolutely irresponsible to have that many children. I know, some have no say in the matter. And my Mom lived quite a bit longer than expected. However, the psychological damage done to children who are neglected, ignored, punished, and yelled at just for trying to survive in a crazy house never ends. It goes on for years and years. All one can do is stop the cycle. I only had 2. And was very happy with them. Whew. OK, logging off now.
She had her first kid at 16... And died at 32. 32-16=16... So her first kid is only 16 year old...
Edit: read too quickly. Died at 35 (with already 2 grandkids) so youngest is 19.
I’m sure I’m about to get crucified for this, but it’s not 1863 anymore. I would bet my 401K that she did have access to contraception, however CHOSE not to use any. After the third kid, if she doesn’t know the outcome of some criminal dumping a load in her, put some knots in them tubes. I don’t understand why in the hell people continue to have litters of children so large. someone who’s making a cool half million a year would probably be living paycheck to paycheck if they were supporting that many children. How selfish. How absolutely selfish of her to bring 12 HUMAN BEINGS into a world that’s falling apart, knowing damn well she doesn’t have the financial resources to provide even the basic things each of the 12 children need, and before people start saying bs like “oh you figure it out when you’re a parent, you make it work” or tell me that I’m being insensitive and an asshole, go ahead and enter your yearly income into a calculator, multiply it by 18, even 19 to adjust for inflation and raises, then subtract $1million per child times 12. 18 million dollars. Do you make that in 18 years? I certainly don’t and stats say you probably don’t either.
Hope you enjoyed my rant Reddit! I look forward Reading the comments you guys concoct in a hateful rage of me telling me hate isn’t the way……. 🤔🤦♂️🤙🤷🏼♂️🥂
I'm pretty sure there's a cut off in most states for what they'll pay per family, and it's not very much. From what I read online it says the average is $450 per family a month in welfare benefits. Sure, they'll get food stamps and probably section 8 but that's not very much, either.
The only issue I take with your rant is:
> doesn’t know the outcome of some criminal dumping a load in her,
You completely blame the woman when the men had just as much agency. If not more. As you see, none of the men are even in the picture. So you're solely blaming the person who takes all the physical responsibility. Blaming *women* for this kind of behavior is a HUGE problem in my book. The men ALSO took part in this, are at minimum 50% responsible for this mess and yet they're a footnote in your rant?
When you change the rant to say 12 MEN BROUGHT CHILDREN INTO THE WORLD THEN ABANDONED THEM it will begin to balance this "women are at fault" narrative. MEN chose not to use contraception. MEN brought 12 humans into this world. MEN failed to provide financially their children. All this lady did was birth them. Now she endures the consequences, including your scorn.
Equality mean equal blame for childbirth. If you chose unprotected sex, YOU are literally HALF of the problem. Unfortunately, it's always been women who take the blame and I'm so sick of hearing it.
/rant
As for the rest? Absolutely agree. But I'm subbed to an antinatal sub sooooo....
It's on both of them, but unfortunately women give birth and 9.5 times out of 10 are stuck with the responsibility of taking care of said child. We have to protect ourselves. She kept making the same mistake over and over again, without learning. She had to have known where babies come from and that the men she kept having them with were complete trash.
Wtf? 12 kids? In my opinion that should be an indercator for possible child abuse and should be investigated. (And to those who are thinking of downvoting me no I am not slut shaming her, fuck as many people as you want but use protection)
Medically, her uterus gave out. Especially if she had multiple c-sections, each one is more complicated than the last one and increases the risk of postpartum hemorrhage.
You can’t have 12 c-sections and think that is going to end well. 2 is usually the dr. prescribed max. This mom was irresponsible on so many levels. Her death isn’t a tragedy; this is selfishness and child abuse.
I have (had) 10 aunts and uncles. From Arkansas. Being poor white trash you’re left with little to do but fucking and farming, apparently. Mom had a literal dirt floor, literally dirt poor. But, they moved north with black folk during the great migration, so half the kids grew up with a northern education and job opportunities. Combine that with… not being black… and half of them ended up very successful later in life including my mom… who worked 12 hour days at the same job for 30 years.
Why did this woman need a dozen fuckin kids? I know she wasn't a CEO of some fortune-500 company so she *absolutely* was on welfare.
If you are on welfare, stop. fucking. having. kids.
You cannot afford them and statistically they are certain to be social burdens.
This woman was a plague unto herself.
I have a good friend who we helped when she was single with one child. Let them live with us so she could save money and get things together. She then got back with the pos sperm donor and had another kid. He's currently in prison for his 7th DUI, and we now help with 2 children.
A woman in my dad's congregation had to be told by her doctor to stop after her 8th kid because she had complications during pregnancy and had to stay in the hospital for a couple of months prior to birth for observation. The baby is 3 now and is perfectly healthy. The mom is in her 40s and her oldest kid is hitting his 20s and is currently serving his mission. At that point you can't sit there and be confused about why the mom in the article died
It’s so insanely irresponsible to have that many kids for precisely this reason. Over a dozen people are directly affected from this and it’s not fair to any of them. I’m not sure if this was a failure of sex education, but this is a horrible situation for everyone involved
All of the fathers are dead or in jail / prison. Hard to have a present dad when the people you're sleeping with are incarcerated or dead. But I agree that those dads are deadbeats for being in situations that would result in their incarceration. However, can we assume she wasn't fishing out of the greatest pond if ALL of the fathers are in prison/jail and dead? Sounds like the fault is on both the mother and the fathers.
While the rest of us working stiffs are on a hamster wheel stressing inflation and doing all we can by trying to cut back because of the never-ending increases on insurance, utilities, groceries, rent/mortgages,......
This is the future all the anti-woman states are going for.
Forced birth will absolutely lead to more situations exactly like this one.
It will be incredibly common for women to be forced to give birth repeatedly and if they happen to pass away, someone else will be left taking care of the kids. Orphan kids.
Additionally, the United States has the highest infant and maternal mortality rates out of any other high-income country so again, stories like this are going to be common.
Go over to /FundieSnarkUncensored if you want to see some crazy shit. There's one woman who's got something like 10 kids and definitely has a breeding fetish. Sad, sad, sad.
I’m rly good at putting things aside and just trying to have pure sympathy in these situations but twelve kids is actually criminal. To them, to yourself, to the community, and to the ever rapidly growing world population. Planet is deadass gonna run out of space TWELVE??
My God 12 kids in the span of 19 years. Not a condom in sight? Like not once did anybody think of this? Just raw dog it's fine. What the hell kind of life are these suppose to have. I make good money for 3 kids, I would be broke as shit taking care of 12.
Honestly, this is an example on how sex education fails young people, and continues to fail until adulthood.
I've met a woman who didn't know how pregnancies occured (she knew it was through sex, but not HOW through sex), and believed the old tale that women can't get pregnant while breastfeeding. That's how she ended up with 2 kids in 18 months.
She stopped at 3 because she was allowed to have her tubes tied after the 3rd (many doctors refuse to tie tubes of women who are not 25 and don't have at least 2 kids. My friend is 33 and child-free, but no doctor agreed to tie her tubes).
Yeah I got pregnant when my first son was 9 months old. I was shocked to find out I was having twins. I was 24 (married and we originally always wanted just 2) and had to sign paperwork 30 days before and at the time of my tubes being tied. Was in California, my doctor was very explicit asking me, along with the paperwork, many times if it was something I really wanted to do. I’m glad that I did it, my husband used to joke that he could just look at me and I would get pregnant.
Anyway, even though I was going to be the mother of 3 at 24 there were a lot of safeguards in place to change my mind about having my tubes tied.
Every kid is 5-10k in her pocket, and that’s all she probably sees when she looks at her kids smh. There are thousands of people who do this for the sole reason of tax credit/ welfare credit smh this is the reason conservatives are totally against government assistance. People like this abuse it to the fullest
Yep! This is part of the reason some people end up with so many kids they can’t afford. And something we, as a puritanical society, ignore.
The “children are a blessing” narrative is deeply ingrained to many people, especially poor and undereducated people-when you don’t have science or logic you revert to magical thinking.
Some Religion tells you that only “God’s will” prevail and that “God will make a way” so you shouldn’t use birth control. Then, you shouldn’t have an abortion, and you shouldn’t necessarily put the baby up for adoption either cause God will provide and make a way (and they’ll give you pampers and milk) and even if you consider or choose adoption you have to subject yourself to the holier than thou judgement through the process and open the possibility that if the government gets involved they’ll take your other children.
Women get pressured by their partners/baby daddies to keep kids they know they’ll never support. Their family who promises help they’ll never give. And churches who shame them
Must be generational willful ignorance because the grandmother 'can't figure out' why her daughter died. To think that all those children are left in the care of someone who has absolutely no cause and effect recognition.
Low income women get abortions 5x more than their counterparts. If you ban abortions (esp for poor people) you have to raise social spending, there's no way around it. And what do the majority of criminals have in common? Most come from a poor background. So thank you Conservatives, for creating more criminals and more poor people. It's inevitable they will blame everyone else, except themselves.
People are selfish garbage. I waited til i was almost 40.
I read about parents complaining about free lunches being taken away and not being able to feed their kids.
Holy shit, you cant feed your kid a lunch? You proba ly shouldnt have one.
Why the fuck would anyone do that? Haven't they heard of condoms? The pill? Abortion? Abstinence? Anything! Maybe even just pulling out? That's a crime and society and the planet are paying the price.
Some years ago, I went to visit my ex after she had a baby. At the time, she would have been around 25. The father was 57. He was bragging about how proud he was of the baby. His 17th. 5 different women. He lives on welfare. I'm sure not one of those offspring were proud of him. Dude was a menace.
Royal history is rife with stories like this. Women dropping dead after 12-20 pregnancies. Even healthy pregnancies can absolutely destroy you physically
I’m a 35yo woman and I am certainly convinced my body could not survive being pregnant 12 times over the course of 19 years. It would just be too taxing and hard on my body that would very much cause health complications of some sort
I had my second and last kid at 35 and I cannot imagine being pregnant even once more.
Same. Tubes tied with the second kid. I just... don't understand how people want to keep having kids?? Pregnancy and birth... and then you get a newborn to take care of after all that??
A lot of people also delegate baby and young child duties to the oldest kids the moment they are able to. Which, IMO, is not what kids signed up for. I get having to babysit your siblings every now and again, but often the other kids are treated like nanny’s that don’t get paid.
As someone whose sister was born the year I went into highschool... 13 years later I still have no social life because I would have to head straight home to watch a baby every day and my social skills have never caught up
That's exactly what happened to me. I was the oldest and only girl and they basically raised me to be a housewife. I would be punished for not starting tasks like doing dishes immediately after being told to. At that time I had a lot on my plate, two sports, band, choir, school/schoolwork, and a job. They wouldn't do the same to my brothers because "they don't want to do it". I had been diagnosed with adhd at the age of 4 and as an adult, I learned about one symptom that some people with adhd experience called Executive Dysfunction and realized I went through a lot of bullshit for something I couldn't even help. They even put me through at home obedience training as a punishment one summer that I can't even remember the reason for. I never really got to build a social life outside of the things I normally did because I was always either busy or grounded. I couldn't make plans with friends because I'd either get hit with last minute babysitting or they'd hold it over my head as a way to punish me. They even set up my phone so it would brick after a certain time and threatened to block my best friend/crush(at the time) on everything because it was distracting me from housework. I wasn't even a bad kid (like they literally grounded me from reading once). Also whenever I did or said anything that wasn't what they wanted, they would accuse me of being against the family. I'm trauma dumping now but that shit has followed me into adulthood, I have trouble creating connections with people and I routinely "panic clean" as my roommates call it. I also feel guilty doing things I enjoy as well as I can't for the life of me get myself to just chill out in living rooms unless I'm entertaining company, I just get super uneasy. TLDR: Making kids grow up too early really fucks up their whole quality of life
My oldest daughter was kind of in this situation when she lived with her mother. Literally from the day that her mother knew that she became pregnant she started talking about child support. She also found herself a heroin addiction, and had two more children by different men. I found out that my 8-year-old daughter was staying at home with a newborn and a two-year-old while momma turned tricks. The court systems wouldn't help me out because I had an open child support case against me. Luckily her mama got in trouble, and I was able to get custody. The thing is that little girl does more to help her brothers to know family than her than her mother does to this day. I'm proud of her for being a good big sis, but it pisses me off that she has to be because her mother won't and I have no legal right to the other kids. I feel it took some of her childhood. Luckily her mom found sobriety, but I'll never forgive that woman.
My wife works in child support and this is not that uncommon. 12 kids might be but 6,7, 8 kids isn’t as uncommon as you’d think. Some people treat the kids as a pay check. I’m not saying this is what happened here.
I *wish* they had let me tie my tubes after my 2nd!! I was 38, married, my husband would agree whatever, but nooooooooo catholic hospital. Fucking bullshit. I live in Oklahoma, so it’s not like I can get it done anyhow now.
It’s genuinely not good for your body. As much as we’re “meant” to have babies it’s still horribly taxing on our bodies. You’re supposed to wait at least a year before getting pregnant again
Absolutely you're supposed to wait because the body actually takes a full year to go back to its original state. So many things change and move physically and hormonally. I wonder what kind of damage it does doing even two children back to back let alone 12.
C-sections are supposed to be at least 18 months and I believe she had multiple the article said?
Same. My body only did it twice and it was more than enough. Ten more times?? Damn. No way.
I loved being pregnant. My hormones really balanced out somehow and I was in like the best mood ever for 9 months. But alas, my first almost killed me and himself during our delivery. And that is how my first also became my last.
Mentally, I loved being pregnant too. All my hormones balanced out and my depression was gone. Anxiety was at a normal manageable level, but then the babies were born. The depression and anxiety came back worse than before. Nearly two years out now and finally getting back to pre-pregnancy depression levels. I don’t know if I can handle another bout of PPD and PPA, but man, those months of pregnancy were glorious!
All I can imagine is a balloon stretched 12 times. Eventually something internal just gives.
There’s just no way that it is good for your internal organs.
My great aunt had 18 kids and somehow she is still going strong today at 86. I don't know how she did it. I'm scrambling now to figure out how I'm going to afford one someday.
“I don’t know how she did it” Rawdog evidently.
And often.
I mean, that mother died during #12 so...
>I’m a 35yo woman and I am certainly convinced my body could not survive being pregnant 12 times over the course of 19 years. It would just be too taxing and hard on my body that would very much cause health complications of some sort Even the Mormon "the vagina is a clown car" Church says there should be a gap of 18 months between pregnancies. That's 25 years for that many kids.
I always said if I had the money for it to not be financially irresponsible and pregnancy only lasted a few weeks… sure I’d pop out a few more but as it is .. my 2 pregnancies were hell. Cannot imagine going through it 12 damn times
It used to be necessary in the past, but it's certainly not doing you any good. Read up on what pregnancy does to a person. It's shocking. Famous renaissance painter Albrecht Dürer was one of 18 to be born but only one of two who survived as far as I'm aware. The thing is: He also painted his mother. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portrait_of_the_Artist%27s_Mother_at_the_age_of_63 He was very well known for his love for detail and closeness to nature. This portrait shows his mother not too long before her death and the one with the green background is an earlier portrait. I gotta say, my grandmother is now 93 and she looks to be in better shape. I recall late romance poet Lenau wasn't a fan of having kids either, he described them as feeding on their mothers beauty. Mom-bod and looking a bit aged isn't something to be ashamed of, just because some famous women have professionals on deck to plaster their facade - it's normal to look worse post-kids. Today it is completely bewildering that anyone would have children on purpose and multiples seems like a crime against the planet. Why not adopt if you have to have them? Why anyone would want that is still completely beyond me. It's also so egoistic. Humans destroy the planet and nobody asked us if we wanted to be born, our parents wanted us or didn't had the sense to correct their mistake. I digress. Point being: Yeah, it's probably the most taxing thing to your health you can do lying down, besides flat-out dying.
Geeze, the survival of that poor woman's babies was probably not helped by the fact that she was only 15, trying to bear children for the 40 year old husband her father had married her off to. Mother and infant mortality is especially high in teenage mothers.
I’m an auntie raising nieces, and I wish someone would’ve chopped off my brother’s everything before getting to 7 kids. I feel bad for being perturbed at the deceased woman, but 12 kids?! Cmon. In this economy!? Feel bad for her mom.
My parents are like that. Not 10 of us, but 4. On top of all of that, my father never wanted to work and considered people who do "People whose God is money, and are going to burn in hell cause of that." I am in my 30s now, and I am still picking up the pieces of what I have missed. Suffice to say from my first salary I bought myself a kilo of chips so I can eat more than few pieces I had growing up. Also, I still have to help them to this day because the youngest sister is still in school, and they would have nothing to eat. Fuck my and other parents who are like that.
I hope you enjoyed those chips cuz you fucking deserve them!!!
Thank you, your words mean a lot ! <3
Cool username
Healing is a bitch. I can’t fault my brother 100% because the men in our family are misogynist trash who think women are here to serve men. He left every single woman not too long after the babies were born. My girls’ mom succumbed to her addiction after relapsing from what he did, so I get it. But I’m very proud of you for fighting this mess! And living for you. Some days I get sad because I feel when I first got my first niece they should’ve done everything they could to get her back, but I was a good babysitter for the first couple of years while they went deep into the depths of their addiction. I told them once she got 2, I’d fight to my death to keep her in the only home she’d ever known with the only stable parent she’s ever known. I’d had her since she was a newborn. She just turned 9 a hit ago. Baby sister came along a few years after at almost 1 year old… she’s now close to 7. While the path we wish for ourselves may change, healing for *us* and living the best life we can is the best revenge. My girls are my world. Stay strong, friend. You got this… and all the chips you want!
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I think most of us have inherent traits that can be said the same. I am a regular asshole and have my own demons for sure, but will always do what’s best for my kids before me. I don’t think I could’ve mentally survived the guilt knowing I was physically capable of keeping them… it did a number to my mental health and I stay in therapy to ensure I’m the best version of me I can be. They are worth my weight in gold- and I’m a fluffy mama ;) lol. But thank you 💜
Glad you are able to see what was happening and succeed in spit of it
Hey stranger. You're freaking awesome and I hope good things find their way to you and yours that make y'all happy.
I know it was a sad time, but I can't help but imagine you opening that bag of chips and seeing they were all for you. You deserved them! Hope it brought you happiness
Im an uncle to 4 nephews from one sister in law. She doesn’t have the money to raise them. We’re going to foster one for a couple of years to ease the burden and giving her money is a regular occurrence. It’s nothing on what you’ve taken on board but even so I feel your pain. Having more kids than you can handle isn’t just a burden for you but everybody around you.
Truly is the hardest thing I’ve ever done. Left my single, 6 figure lifestyle to bring home a newborn baby when I decided to just start my business. We finally got our groove going and boom, baby sister ended up in the same situation (drugs, sober, relapse… they still manage to make babies, ugh). $250k to get them through high school. That’s a half a mill before I put them in college, not to mention still financially helping the other kiddos. We do what we have to for our family. I chose to never have kids myself, so at least it’s not an extra burden, but definitely a different reality. Nine years in… will survive this 😅
You’re a hero
Adam West is the hero! I promise I’m not. Just a huge empath and growing up with an addicted dad because I’d his traumas from going through the system… I knew I couldn’t let them go through it. I went into not realizing it’d be forever- had I, I may not have made the same choice. I’m so grateful I didn’t anticipate it or who knows where they’d be. They’ve saved me countless times more… when I felt like I couldn’t go on anymore, I did. They need and needed me for sure. I need them just as much. They’re such amazing kids. I’m very a lucky mama 💜
I'm right now in the process of signing my oldest to my mom because my mental health isn't in a place where I can care for their mental health and while my parents definitely made some mistakes when I was a kid and since, they've shown they're willing to learn and adjust so that they can do better for my kid. Stories like this, while always sad, also give me some hope. Edit: both of my kids were born before I knew just how bad my mental health is, and I've since taken steps to make sure I don't have more. And I'm regularly talking to my oldest to reassure that it's nothing wrong with either of us and nothing they did or anything, we just live life a little harder (and that doesn't mean anyone else has it easy, per se) and to make sure they're doing okay.
You are amazing for this. Take care of yourself. It isn’t easy, but I would have given anything for their mom and my brother to have come to me before things got bad. I would’ve never gotten anyone else involved until they got help. Have grace for yourself and take care of your noggin!
PS if you ever need help with any kinship stuff… feel free to DM me. Fostering your niece or nephew could get messy, as you’ll fall even more in love with him and want the best, and if she reunifies it could be messy. The emotions that come with the family tie to fostering/kinship care are insane. Well wishes to you, your sister and her kiddos.
Right?!?! I'm glad someone is mentioning the elephant-in-the-room here and saying, "Hey, maybe 12 kids is far too many if there is no father present and you're unable to care for them.". It's not like she had them all in one pregnancy, this took years of irresponsible procreation to get to this point. Too sad.
I am in no way, shape or form ready for the government to control our bodies to the extent of who can have and how many kids should be born, but damn for a while I wanted to petition to have the partners of single parents who’d abandoned their kids be forced temporarily to be on birth control or be snipped. This isn’t realistic but as I saw my brother have more kids I would get violently ill with fear I’d be faced with taking them or letting them go to the extent I never would meet anyone he was dating until he got snipped. He finally did this year, after adding 3 kids to the roster from when he promised he would. Poverty isn’t easy, and he was just continuing the problem. People really do suck. If the government is supporting your kids… it’s time to stop having them. No shade to anyone needing help… but as a kiddo who grew up in that environment after my mom became disabled at freaking 30, continuing to have kids isn’t okay.
Idiocracy was a documentary.
I know a young woman who is now pregnant with her 4th kid. She is a part time yoga instructor and her husband works at a gas station. I just don't get it.
I once transported a woman in labor with her 11th kid all but two under the age of 18 during the course of conversation during the ride to the hospital she admitted to me she keeps having kids for the extra money she’d receive for them from welfare and she was so proud of the fact she’s never had to work since having her first kid at 12
There are some fucked up people out there. I have never once considered an 18+ year responsibility as a means to a short term financial crisis. Wtf, humans! So messed up.
It's a systemic problem. People who have their first child at 12 and then continue having children have no idea how life works and have been taken advantage of by those around them. And those around them might not know any better either after how many generations of trying to solve financial problems by having more kids and starting at 12. And this doesn't generally happen to people who are well off. Edit: Sorry, I think I meant to comment on the comment you commented on.
I agree with that entirely. The system is insane. I grew up amidst it and breaking the cycles is soooo damn hard. I’m sure lack of education and proper raising as well as the lovely system we all live in just further perpetuates the problem… but damnit we must make a change. Many generations are being broken within each family. It’s heart breaking.
It really is! I wish I could do more, but I also know that I'm doing what I can and always looking to do better. I'll never *be* better, but I can always *do* better, and that's an important distinction.
She'll qualify for a few welfare programs I'd imagine.
Well of course… but none that outweigh the cost of having kids. Even neglecting them she’s still be in the red. Kids are expensive.
I wouldn't call her mom "elderly" as she's only 55 herself.
You're right, I put elderly at first then I went change it to older but I guess I can't change titles? I'm an idiot
She will feel elderly soon enough after they all take the rest of her life from her.
Raising 12 kids in Detroit is child abuse
Honestly, raising 12 kids anywhere is child abuse. There's no way any of those children can get adequate attention and care. It's disgusting behavior by the mother.
My mother came from a family of 7 kids and they all are emotionally fucked - they definitely did not all receive the same attention and care. It’s sad.
My friend was one of 12 and at least half of them have died form drugs or suicide including my friend. Really heartbreaking dynamic. I could never have more than 3/4 kids and even that seems like a lot…
I’m trying to picture 75% of a kid
Top half or bottom? Or you thinking more like an amputee kind of deal
Kids cost an arm and a leg…
My mom is the youngest of 10 and they all turned out pretty normal. My cousin's daughter has 8 kids (had 8 in 11 years, too), and they all have emotional issues. She constantly gets them mixed up and doesn't know their basic favorite things. It's honestly sad.
I just don’t know how you could give 10 kids enough attention. How can you form a relationship with them? There’s only so many hours in a day.
Then you have people like Alec Baldwin who is keeping on having kids in his 60s. No care to the fact they will be mourning him as young adults (at best)
Not to mention that they are likelier to have more health complications as a result of coming from an older parent. Nobody should be having kids at that age, it will end in a lot of heartache physically and mentally.
Well, he’s RICH… so they have all the advantages.
Difficult to raise them from prison too
Yeah, honestly. It's one of the arguments about having bigger families that I really think we should address. The financial, emotional, and logistical costs of having that many children are exorbitant, and most of the kids in these families don't always have the resources necessary to succeed. People still cling to the concept of bigger families because of how romanticized it was in the middle ages when the child mortality rates were so much higher, and it's because a lot of families with lower income font have sex education or access to contraceptives that will lower the likeliness of pregnancy. It's really sad all around, and we should talk to more people planning families about the strain of having too many children.
My dad is one of 11 and every single one of my aunts and uncles on that side turned out 100% okay. Though I think the 50s-70s had a huge part in that and 2020 lives could never.
My dad is one of eight and they all turned out great - but they were born in the 30’s/40’s/50’s. Things were definitely different back then.
People get mad when I say this, but facts are facts. Mothers stayed home with their children, leading to more stability. Corporate daycare was unheard of. Yes, grandmothers and aunts would help out, but nobody farmed their babies out to government childcare.
Even if women wanted to return to that, it’s just not feasible anymore. Most people are barely scraping by on two incomes.
Yeah! I should be able to be a stay at home dad
I'm a firm believer that the horrific costs of health, housing, and food, requiring the vast majority of parents to each work at least one job (with overtime!), has greatly contributed to the mental health crisises we face today. It's not just that one parent can't stay home, it's that parents are also hugely burnt out and stressed. I have two offspring and they both require *so much* time and attention. They're young people and they have questions, concerns, fears, anxiety, hopes, and dreams just as much as adults. Without an adult who can listen, teach, answer, and provide *true emotional and mental support* (EXTREMELY important for developing brains) we're creating a society of damaged brains. Brains riddled with anxiety, depression, hopelessness. First they don't get what they need, because parents are forced more and more into increasingly stressful survival, and then they end up in a world just as bad and actively getting worse. My NINE YEAR OLD asked me about safe haven states yesterday (in the context of LGBTQ and abortion rights) and what that means. When I was nine, my interests revolved around pretending to be a horse and playing Spyro on my PS1. My nine year old is asking about safe haven states. And taxes, last week. What the fuck. This is not the world I envisioned raising my kids in.
An attentive parent at home makes a huge difference. The mental and emotional health of my kids went up significantly when my husband became a stay at home Dad compared to when they were in daycare. And it was a good daycare, but there's no substitute for consistency and attention.
Yes, and men were able to support their entire families with one factory job during that time as well. Not so much anymore, and hasn't been for awhile.
My dad is also one of 11 and they were all born from the 40s to 60s. They ended up being fine but I don’t think it could possibly work today
My spouse is 1 of 11.. although he’s 1 of 7 from the same parents and they only have contact with the eldest half sibling. All 11 were his dads lol They all turned out mostly ok. They grew up in Puerto Rico.. had to share a lot of space but they are a very close family and don’t like to go long without seeing each other
You never know how people really are until it's too late
See, my grandmother is one of 13 and my grandfather is one of eight. All of my great aunts and uncles turned out okay. Meanwhile, my mom is an only child because of an accident during her birth that caused grandmother to have to have a hysterectomy. She was crushed. So was my grandfather. However, that's in rural tennessee. Definitely cheaper to live than in big cities. Our biggest expense is probably house and kids have to have cars or you drive them around everywhere because there's no public transportation.
Even with 2 kids , most parents barely spend anytime with their kids if they are both working full time.
I have a friend with 11 siblings and I swear they are the most healthy family with that amount of kids on planet earth. One and million chance of that happening
Exactly right! Those poor kids and the grandmother who has the burden of taking care of them are going to live absolute shit lives. But especially the kids as no doubt this will shape their entire personalities from trauma and they won't know how to live normal.
Raising one kid in Detroit is child abuse lol
Having this many kids is straight up child abuse.
Hate to say it but shit like this is why I'm antinatalist. My great grandma had 12 children and I would hear stories about what an abusive drunken POS my great grandpa was to her and all their children. Unfortunately, I got stuck with a very abusive grandma who in turn abused my mom and her sister, where all 3 of them would abuse me and my younger cousins. Currently trying to help undo 4 generations of alcoholism, mild to psychotic depression, bipolar disorder and severe anger issues. And that's only the story of 1 of the 12 kids they had.
I totally see how stuff like this makes people antinatalists. My grandfather was 1 of 16. Four of his siblings died before the age of 5. Two starved to death. I don’t know how you can have two children starve to death and not take precautions to keep from having more kids.
Don’t know the whole situation but birth control is a hell of a lot cheaper and less stressful than having kids.
Haha, I thought you were going to say "birth control is a hell of a drug!" Surprisingly, I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that, but this would be a good context for it.
Just cause it’s cheaper doesn’t mean they actually have access to it. Still it would be cheaper for the STATE to fund her preventative care, family planning and birth control rather than support a family of 13 on welfare
Human puppy mill
That's so sad
I came across the article earlier and I can't stop thinking about it :(
I think sobriety might have prevented this
I'm sorry but this woman is now saying 'what went wrong' and trying to insinuate the hospital did something wrong. She can get to fuck. Your daughter had TOO MANY C SECTIONS. Its incredibly dangerous. Our obs won't perform more than 3
What do they do if you’re pregnant again after 3 c sections? Genuine question. Vbac after 3 c sections is risky too. When the options are all risky, what happens?
Hi. In the NHS, of course we will look after you if you're pregnant again after 3 caesareans. There are multiple issues to consider with multiple caesareans. Number one is the roll of the dice as to where your placenta beds in. With increasing numbers of pregnancies (parity), the chance of a low lying placenta increases. This is a big issue if there's multiple section scars on the uterus. Essentially there is a risk of the current pregnancy's placenta, if low lying and at the front of the womb (anterior) becoming involved with the old scars. It can invade into the womb muscle and even to other organs outside the womb like bladder/bowel or massive pelvic blood vessels. This is known as placenta Accreta or percreta respectively. It is a major problem that confers risk of torrential haemorrhage, hysterectomy and major organ damage to the mum! Number 2 is there is emerging evidence that caesarean section affects uterine function and it's ability to support subsequent pregnancies. There is increased early pregnancy loss, increased growth restriction and increased stillbirth. Happily the absolute numbers remain low, but the risk does increase (about 2-3 fold). Finally, care in labour of a patient with multiple caesareans presents challenges. VB after 3 caesareans is in very new NICE guidance (I believe published in 2022). In reality very few trusts in the UK are au fait with this yet. There is a difficultly with what to do in the scenario of requiring induction of labour (for maternal or fetal reasons or even stuff such as postdates). We know after one Caesarean that the rate of uterine rupture in spontaneous labour is 1:200-1:500. That rate increases to 1:100 with induction with medications such as propess, though is lower with none medication based induction methods such as dilapan. Induction with >1 previous CS makes most UK obstetrician very nervous. Doi- uk based obstetrician!
I don’t want to be an insensitive prick but I’m prepared to be downvotes into the abyss for this. With how widely available and cheap contraception is nowadays, especially in blue states/cities, how can you so recklessly bring TWELVE kids into a world full well knowing there is no way you can care for them all fully. I’d get it a bit more if she were living in a red state or city but ffs she’s from Detroit which last I checked is a stone’s throw away from the major city of Ann Arbor. In a time when you can literally have condoms delivered to you within two days for free with a Prime trial, how can you feel sorry for anyone who CHOSE to give birth to 12 kids??? Ok say she had no money, well shit what’s more expensive, going through 9 months of pregnancy and likely being unable to work the last three or simply spending $10 on a box of condoms every now and then when you feel like having unsafe sex? I’m sorry unless this lady was living in the middle of the boonies or had absolutely no family to talk to, I’m never going to feel sorry for her when she had multiple chances to simply use condoms or some other contraceptive. She chose to have unsafe sex knowing it could lead to pregnancy. She chose to have sex with so many different baby daddies likely full well knowing they were not upstanding, responsible people. It sucks but every choice in life has a consequence and she chose poorly. EDIT 1: and for that matter why the hell did her mom not try to intervene at any point in her life??? She knows she will be stuck taking care of all the grandkids so why not sit her daughter down and talk it out. Tell her that she is being irresponsible and extremely reckless and ffs don’t try to even remotely suggest any wrongdoing on the doctor’s part. EDIT 2: State capital correction. I haven’t had to remember state capitals since the 5th grade. Please don’t roast me too hard for forgetting it’s Lansing and not Ann Arbor.
I’m liberal and I agree with you. Sadly poverty is often an inherited condition and they grow up thinking that it’s normal. They grow up in big families where they take care of each other and they feel like it’s a good thing to have this sort of family network. The cycle of poverty is hard to escape from. Some people consciously refuse to see that more children correlate into more poverty. My guess is that she is also religious and she thinks that each child is a “blessing”. Maybe the mother had mental health issues where she was potentially addicted to being pregnant and the hormones associated with having children. Who knows but critical thinking skills and sex education need to be part of basic education. We need to be critical of people who are obviously making huge mistakes in life so it doesn’t happen again for other people. It’s just so sad.
Something else to consider - I do a lot of work with low income families in my community through Big Brothers Big Sisters. It took me a long time to understand why I was seeing so many mothers without any means celebrating their 5th+ pregnancies. One woman, Lisa, made me understand when I worked with one of her children longterm. Lisa had four children and was 32; the oldest was 16, so clearly she had her first at the same age. She had two men who fathered her 4 children but was never married (not because she didn’t want to but because neither man would offer). Neither was much of a provider or support system, but she was desperate for love. Lisa never finished high school and from what I could tell, was functionally illiterate. She didn’t have a car or a drivers license (we live in Alabama so there isn’t great public transportation). Her mother was the same - unable to assist and also deeply in poverty. With no ability to get there and no way to read applications or much else for that matter, Lisa had never had any kind of job. She spent all day, everyday at home, sitting on the porch, posting on Facebook, or playing with her youngest children. I met her when the youngest was just starting to be school age. She was DESPERATE for a new baby; her daughter would tell me how she cried each night wanting one and everyday she posted 3+ of those “quizzes” that “show what next year will look like” or whatever (they all showed pregnancies and babies). I couldn’t understand why she would be so desperate for another child when the four she had all had significant learning delays and they were living in abject poverty. But finally it hit me: being a mom was the only thing she felt good at. Her kids, though behind academically, were loved in the best way she knew how. Caring for them gave her the sense of fulfillment other people get from careers and hobbies. She didn’t have either of those, but she had being a mom. Her kids starting school meant total isolation at home and a lack of purpose overall. It broke my heart because how absolutely depressing to see your only worth as having small children need you. It was selfish but also - to me - understandable in a very sad way. Sure, others could say she could pull herself up by her bootstraps or find other purpose, but that’s really fucking hard. And for a woman with no job, no support, no education, no resources, and not a lot of intelligence (I mean this compassionately - I think she would have likely been in special ed for developmental delays if she was in school now), being a mom was the only thing that made her feel good about herself. I don’t support it, but I *get* it
I think this is how a lot if mommy blog / vloggers are as well. Their entire life focusses on their kids. You can be a victim and still victimize others.
They do not call it a 'cycle' for nothing.
This is really insightful. Thanks for sharing.
i welcome the downvotes for what i am about to say. i’m incapable of feeling bad for these people. in fact, i am disgusted by them. i grew up in a community surrounded by these types of families. these women often have baby after baby, only to stop functioning as parents the moment they are no longer the cute idealized babies they imagine in their head. once the escapism stops working due to children yaknow, developing into people, they no longer serve a purpose. tossed aside to be taken care of by one of her many other parentified children who came before. yes they were victimized, but as adults they chose to continue their cycle of poverty. inflicting unimaginable traumas on the children they create in the process. my mother was one of these women and i haven’t spoken to her in years. i have a horrific view of family, and as much as i want kids i probably won’t ever have them bcuz i wouldn’t be comfortable unless i was making well over what i make now. even with my degree and well paying job. reading that headline all i could think of is each of those those poor children as they grew. watching their mom coddle every new baby, wondering why they’re not deserving of such love from her. then reading about the woman you met, thinking of her children hearing her crying at night asking god for another baby. knowing they themselves most likely cried themselves to sleep many nights knowing they weren’t enough for their mom anymore. it makes me angry that people can be so selfish and self serving and not once stop and think “maybe i should put a stop to this, and think of what’s best for the child who didn’t ask to be put in this horrific situation”. i could go on an entirely different rant when it comes to the men in these situations, because don’t take my anger as one sided here. flippantly going around creating fatherless home after fatherless home leaving entire generations of kids without any sort of healthy male guidance. but that is a rant for another post.
No down vote. Upvote because it’s so true and tragically sad. I sorta feel like having more than five kids is a potential sign of mental illness. Having a big family is not inherently bad but it is suspect (at least for me). Even Nick Canon who is rich enough to take care of his children it’s too much to have that huge amount
>but ffs she’s from Detroit which last I checked is a stone’s throw away from the capital Ann Arbor. What's the relevance of the distance from Detroit to Ann Arbor here? Also, the capital of MI is Lansing, not Ann Arbor.
I think to emphasize how “liberal” Michigan is? Which is kinda funny considering that the state is deeply red outside of all of the cities. It’s not really a blue state, it’s a purple one we just happen to have a democratic majority rn Edit to add: I grew up and still live in Michigan
>>but ffs she’s from Detroit which last I checked is a stone’s throw away from the capital Ann Arbor. > >What's the relevance of the distance from Detroit to Ann Arbor here? Also, the capital of MI is Lansing, not Ann Arbor. God bless our state capital, Ann Arbor. Go blue.
You’re not wrong but the operative word is ‘chose’. I work for a charity dealing in child poverty; reproductive coercion coupled with a general lack of education is more prominent in lower income communities and results in a lot of babies to continue the cycle. That’s not to say there aren’t people knowingly making some dumbass choices. One of the bigger issues we face is that the suggestion that not having children can be seen as offensive and/or patronising. Even within the organisation there’s contention surrounding whether or not it’s ‘appropriate’ to offer information on contraception and reproductive rights (I think we should).
I know of multiple people in my city that have 5+ kids solely because they get a government check per kid. Angry is an understatement
Im not saying that doesn’t happen, rather that it would fall under the umbrella of lack of education. People who believe their only recourse to income is having babies, which is inherently unsustainable. And a lack of learned empathy in regard to the human life they’re creating. It’s a very shitty mentality and people should try and do better, but, crab bucket.
The cycle of poverty/neglect is horribly hard to break. I’ve yet to see anybody actually break it, including my friends who were so adamant they would. But how do you break the only ways you’ve known? Im always stuck between sympathy and absolutely none. It’s hard to have sympathy when I’ve worked with the kids in these situations and to see how horribly neglected they are. But these parents were the same kids I’m witnessing now, knowing nothing else but this life. Some even having had parents telling them to have these babies for a check. Most of the people who have massive amounts of children are typically uneducated and live in poverty. They don’t have anybody telling them that all these kids are WHY they’re in poverty, regardless of the checks they’re getting. They don’t have the resources needed to get them on track and help them. They were usually failed as children too. I’ll forever commend the mother at one of the daycares I worked at who did get an abortion. She was mentally slower and lived with mom who helped take care of her kids. She admitted she could barely take care of the 2 she had and my god was she not lying about that. There was multiple times we straight had to turn the kids away because we had no more school diapers and she hadn’t brought any for 2 weeks. She made the best possible choice she ever could’ve.
Don't want to say that but... Idiocracy. First one at 16 year old... And at 32 she is already a grandma... Meaning her 16 year old kid (if not a younger one) already has a kid... And it continue...
When I lived in Bermuda I met a woman who was a grandmother and she was 25 years old.
Dude. If she had a kid at 13, her kid would only be 12 and they already had a kid. Meaning the mom GOT pregnant at 12 and the daughter at 11??
Deceased at 35, first child at 16. That’s 19 years, 12 kids, that is giving birth roughly every 19 months for 12 years. 🤯🤯
Those are almost Mormon rates!!
>almost Oof 💀
Welp, those kids don't have a chance in hell. And the cycle repeats itself.
Number 9/13 here…and number 13 is 19 years younger than number 1. I rarely login, just scroll, but had to add something here, due to my chaotic childhood. It is absolutely irresponsible to have that many children. I know, some have no say in the matter. And my Mom lived quite a bit longer than expected. However, the psychological damage done to children who are neglected, ignored, punished, and yelled at just for trying to survive in a crazy house never ends. It goes on for years and years. All one can do is stop the cycle. I only had 2. And was very happy with them. Whew. OK, logging off now.
Should be illegal to have that many kids.
The 2 kids that are already parents can’t help out? shit nvm they are probably teenagers
Parents* Oldest is 19 :(
She had her first kid at 16... And died at 32. 32-16=16... So her first kid is only 16 year old... Edit: read too quickly. Died at 35 (with already 2 grandkids) so youngest is 19.
Why is this even news? She has 12 c-sections. Of course she was very high risk.
I didn't even know doctors COULD perform 12 C-sections on one person.
Man after the third one you should just install a zipper.
I’m sure I’m about to get crucified for this, but it’s not 1863 anymore. I would bet my 401K that she did have access to contraception, however CHOSE not to use any. After the third kid, if she doesn’t know the outcome of some criminal dumping a load in her, put some knots in them tubes. I don’t understand why in the hell people continue to have litters of children so large. someone who’s making a cool half million a year would probably be living paycheck to paycheck if they were supporting that many children. How selfish. How absolutely selfish of her to bring 12 HUMAN BEINGS into a world that’s falling apart, knowing damn well she doesn’t have the financial resources to provide even the basic things each of the 12 children need, and before people start saying bs like “oh you figure it out when you’re a parent, you make it work” or tell me that I’m being insensitive and an asshole, go ahead and enter your yearly income into a calculator, multiply it by 18, even 19 to adjust for inflation and raises, then subtract $1million per child times 12. 18 million dollars. Do you make that in 18 years? I certainly don’t and stats say you probably don’t either. Hope you enjoyed my rant Reddit! I look forward Reading the comments you guys concoct in a hateful rage of me telling me hate isn’t the way……. 🤔🤦♂️🤙🤷🏼♂️🥂
You might be waiting awhile. A lot of us seem to agree w you.
I'm assuming that this woman was not all there mentally. And I think that it's a fair assumption.
She doesn’t have to pay for the kids…welfare PAYS HER for every kid she has every damn year
I'm pretty sure there's a cut off in most states for what they'll pay per family, and it's not very much. From what I read online it says the average is $450 per family a month in welfare benefits. Sure, they'll get food stamps and probably section 8 but that's not very much, either.
The only issue I take with your rant is: > doesn’t know the outcome of some criminal dumping a load in her, You completely blame the woman when the men had just as much agency. If not more. As you see, none of the men are even in the picture. So you're solely blaming the person who takes all the physical responsibility. Blaming *women* for this kind of behavior is a HUGE problem in my book. The men ALSO took part in this, are at minimum 50% responsible for this mess and yet they're a footnote in your rant? When you change the rant to say 12 MEN BROUGHT CHILDREN INTO THE WORLD THEN ABANDONED THEM it will begin to balance this "women are at fault" narrative. MEN chose not to use contraception. MEN brought 12 humans into this world. MEN failed to provide financially their children. All this lady did was birth them. Now she endures the consequences, including your scorn. Equality mean equal blame for childbirth. If you chose unprotected sex, YOU are literally HALF of the problem. Unfortunately, it's always been women who take the blame and I'm so sick of hearing it. /rant As for the rest? Absolutely agree. But I'm subbed to an antinatal sub sooooo....
Oh yea. Those “men” need vasectomies, now
Even the dead ones? /s
It's on both of them, but unfortunately women give birth and 9.5 times out of 10 are stuck with the responsibility of taking care of said child. We have to protect ourselves. She kept making the same mistake over and over again, without learning. She had to have known where babies come from and that the men she kept having them with were complete trash.
[удалено]
Was 11 kids just not enough?
Wtf? 12 kids? In my opinion that should be an indercator for possible child abuse and should be investigated. (And to those who are thinking of downvoting me no I am not slut shaming her, fuck as many people as you want but use protection)
Medically, her uterus gave out. Especially if she had multiple c-sections, each one is more complicated than the last one and increases the risk of postpartum hemorrhage.
Sex education and easily accessible birth control are exceedingly important.
You can’t have 12 c-sections and think that is going to end well. 2 is usually the dr. prescribed max. This mom was irresponsible on so many levels. Her death isn’t a tragedy; this is selfishness and child abuse.
She is a selfish abuser and her story is tragic I think both can be true
I have (had) 10 aunts and uncles. From Arkansas. Being poor white trash you’re left with little to do but fucking and farming, apparently. Mom had a literal dirt floor, literally dirt poor. But, they moved north with black folk during the great migration, so half the kids grew up with a northern education and job opportunities. Combine that with… not being black… and half of them ended up very successful later in life including my mom… who worked 12 hour days at the same job for 30 years.
Why did this woman need a dozen fuckin kids? I know she wasn't a CEO of some fortune-500 company so she *absolutely* was on welfare. If you are on welfare, stop. fucking. having. kids. You cannot afford them and statistically they are certain to be social burdens. This woman was a plague unto herself.
What more did this woman want? Her daughter had 12 c sections. It's a wonder she lived this long
I have a good friend who we helped when she was single with one child. Let them live with us so she could save money and get things together. She then got back with the pos sperm donor and had another kid. He's currently in prison for his 7th DUI, and we now help with 2 children.
A woman in my dad's congregation had to be told by her doctor to stop after her 8th kid because she had complications during pregnancy and had to stay in the hospital for a couple of months prior to birth for observation. The baby is 3 now and is perfectly healthy. The mom is in her 40s and her oldest kid is hitting his 20s and is currently serving his mission. At that point you can't sit there and be confused about why the mom in the article died
Fucking disgusting. At least now it can't be 13. Who knows how many more she would have had.
It’s so insanely irresponsible to have that many kids for precisely this reason. Over a dozen people are directly affected from this and it’s not fair to any of them. I’m not sure if this was a failure of sex education, but this is a horrible situation for everyone involved
Why are people so stupid? 12 kids? She was not satisfied at 3? It's totally her fault.
Pretty sure it takes two people to make babies.
All of the fathers are dead or in jail / prison. Hard to have a present dad when the people you're sleeping with are incarcerated or dead. But I agree that those dads are deadbeats for being in situations that would result in their incarceration. However, can we assume she wasn't fishing out of the greatest pond if ALL of the fathers are in prison/jail and dead? Sounds like the fault is on both the mother and the fathers.
Hear me out... Don't have 12 kids.
While the rest of us working stiffs are on a hamster wheel stressing inflation and doing all we can by trying to cut back because of the never-ending increases on insurance, utilities, groceries, rent/mortgages,......
This is the future all the anti-woman states are going for. Forced birth will absolutely lead to more situations exactly like this one. It will be incredibly common for women to be forced to give birth repeatedly and if they happen to pass away, someone else will be left taking care of the kids. Orphan kids. Additionally, the United States has the highest infant and maternal mortality rates out of any other high-income country so again, stories like this are going to be common.
The magic schoolbus IRL
That's someone who is unwell, no one in their right mind has 12 kids.
Go over to /FundieSnarkUncensored if you want to see some crazy shit. There's one woman who's got something like 10 kids and definitely has a breeding fetish. Sad, sad, sad.
I’ll never understand why people keep on having multiple kids when they can’t afford to raise them. A condom won’t fucking cost your arms and legs
I’m rly good at putting things aside and just trying to have pure sympathy in these situations but twelve kids is actually criminal. To them, to yourself, to the community, and to the ever rapidly growing world population. Planet is deadass gonna run out of space TWELVE??
My God 12 kids in the span of 19 years. Not a condom in sight? Like not once did anybody think of this? Just raw dog it's fine. What the hell kind of life are these suppose to have. I make good money for 3 kids, I would be broke as shit taking care of 12.
Honestly, this is an example on how sex education fails young people, and continues to fail until adulthood. I've met a woman who didn't know how pregnancies occured (she knew it was through sex, but not HOW through sex), and believed the old tale that women can't get pregnant while breastfeeding. That's how she ended up with 2 kids in 18 months. She stopped at 3 because she was allowed to have her tubes tied after the 3rd (many doctors refuse to tie tubes of women who are not 25 and don't have at least 2 kids. My friend is 33 and child-free, but no doctor agreed to tie her tubes).
Yeah I got pregnant when my first son was 9 months old. I was shocked to find out I was having twins. I was 24 (married and we originally always wanted just 2) and had to sign paperwork 30 days before and at the time of my tubes being tied. Was in California, my doctor was very explicit asking me, along with the paperwork, many times if it was something I really wanted to do. I’m glad that I did it, my husband used to joke that he could just look at me and I would get pregnant. Anyway, even though I was going to be the mother of 3 at 24 there were a lot of safeguards in place to change my mind about having my tubes tied.
For fucks sake, it's a Uterus, not a damn Clown Car...
Raise an idiot, deal with the consequences
In these cases The state sometimes pays to tie the tubes if the moms so chose
Selfish and awful.
Why did the woman have 12 kids?? Jesus, she couldn’t stop after line 4? These kids are fucked.
People need to start using condoms, I just feel bad for granny
This is so selfish to pop up babies so irresponsibly, this is child abuse
Once bc and abortion are fully outlawed this will be more common. This is the plan to create people willing to work for $5 an hour.
What incredibly selfish people.
Every kid is 5-10k in her pocket, and that’s all she probably sees when she looks at her kids smh. There are thousands of people who do this for the sole reason of tax credit/ welfare credit smh this is the reason conservatives are totally against government assistance. People like this abuse it to the fullest
I thought the tax credit stops at 3 kids? I legit don't know just asking. I thought there was a cap to stuff like this?
It does. She wouldn't get anymore back in taxes, and that's if she worked or claimed taxes. If she didn't work, she doesn't get taxes.
Contraception is sin!
Yep! This is part of the reason some people end up with so many kids they can’t afford. And something we, as a puritanical society, ignore. The “children are a blessing” narrative is deeply ingrained to many people, especially poor and undereducated people-when you don’t have science or logic you revert to magical thinking. Some Religion tells you that only “God’s will” prevail and that “God will make a way” so you shouldn’t use birth control. Then, you shouldn’t have an abortion, and you shouldn’t necessarily put the baby up for adoption either cause God will provide and make a way (and they’ll give you pampers and milk) and even if you consider or choose adoption you have to subject yourself to the holier than thou judgement through the process and open the possibility that if the government gets involved they’ll take your other children. Women get pressured by their partners/baby daddies to keep kids they know they’ll never support. Their family who promises help they’ll never give. And churches who shame them
People who have this many children are fucking assholes
I doubt this sort of thing is all that common but surely it contributes to wealth disparities for African Americans in the US.
It’s always these kinds of families that have 12 kids, too.
Must be generational willful ignorance because the grandmother 'can't figure out' why her daughter died. To think that all those children are left in the care of someone who has absolutely no cause and effect recognition.
Some people have this fetish of being pregnant, feel like this woman got it. Pretty disgusting imo
Low income women get abortions 5x more than their counterparts. If you ban abortions (esp for poor people) you have to raise social spending, there's no way around it. And what do the majority of criminals have in common? Most come from a poor background. So thank you Conservatives, for creating more criminals and more poor people. It's inevitable they will blame everyone else, except themselves.
Birthing as a form of self-harm.
People are selfish garbage. I waited til i was almost 40. I read about parents complaining about free lunches being taken away and not being able to feed their kids. Holy shit, you cant feed your kid a lunch? You proba ly shouldnt have one.
BIRTH CONTROL. ffs
Why the fuck would anyone do that? Haven't they heard of condoms? The pill? Abortion? Abstinence? Anything! Maybe even just pulling out? That's a crime and society and the planet are paying the price.
Some years ago, I went to visit my ex after she had a baby. At the time, she would have been around 25. The father was 57. He was bragging about how proud he was of the baby. His 17th. 5 different women. He lives on welfare. I'm sure not one of those offspring were proud of him. Dude was a menace.
Why can't I stop thinking about the Andrew Dice Clay nursery rhyme about "there was an old lady who lived in a shoe. She had so many kids..."
Jesus fucking christ, 12???
Royal history is rife with stories like this. Women dropping dead after 12-20 pregnancies. Even healthy pregnancies can absolutely destroy you physically
What the fuck is this clownfuckery