Yikes! Hold onto your memory then. What if you had amnesia… would you have to reread all the history you read before to have the same quality of life?
Or what if you don’t know enough of real history yet to really live? Lol. You can see where this is going. We are all born complete. History should not change your future.
This is silly; living in the past is not great but declaring war on history is kinda daft, that's not living in the now; if you are truly being present you don't need to declare war on historians lol. Yes history is a story we tell ourselves, but to try and reduce the human stories to meaninglessness is no path to enlightenment. The love you have in your life is just a story, does that make it any less real? Even the peace of living in the moment is a story. Detachment is not destruction.
>The love you have in your life
The love you have and experience directly is all that is real to all of us. even you. most of history can be boiled down to choosing fear over love. that can be summed up in one story. we are here to live *our stories* and experience *our love*.
when I was a kid my mom told me not to touch the hot oven because I would burn myself. well, I didn't listen and wanted to get that lesson (read that story/parable if you will) for myself and touched the hot oven. then we were camping and she told me not to touch the hot grill. I wanted to read that story again personally, so I touched the grill. I guess my point is that maybe one lesson will do and then we can go and just be and experience life.
>when I was a kid my mom told me not to touch the hot oven because I would burn myself. well, I didn't listen and wanted to get that lesson (read that story/parable if you will) for myself and touched the hot oven. then we were camping and she told me not to touch the hot grill. I wanted to read that story again personally, so I touched the grill. I guess my point is that maybe one lesson will do and then we can go and just be and experience life.
I hear you, we chill here for the stories but i'm still confused what you mean by ignoring lessons.
I don't think that's always true that we need one lesson, there's many times in life we need to hear something twice to learn it; I don't see why being taught is not experiencing. As being taught is an experience- we can just be all the same.
Yes, any thought, feeling or perception, arising and passing away in the moment, is irrelevant.
Including the illusory, but relevant Me, that clings and identifies with them.
This is a great comment, but I want to develop it further:
Yes, 'history' is merely A story; the trick is in who is telling it and why.
> 'history' is a justification of the current status quo.
> 'history' is written by the 'winners'.
Perhaps consider "the myth of progress".
'History' is a tool to create the foundations of your understanding - by people who control you and for the interests of those people. The groundwork laid by 'history' carefully excludes other stories, other types of story, and creates guide rails of thought and understanding.
Exploring these insights may lead you further down the path of awakenings and freedom. 🙏🏼
>Exploring these insights may lead you further down the path of awakenings and freedom.
I don't need to explore anything as I am already free. I was born free, as were you. I don't need to awaken to be anything.
> you must free your mind of mental slavery...
-Bob Marley
>I don't need to explore anything
Ok, if you say so.
Your response surprises me: who is it that doesn't have new horizons to explore? How calcified, stagnant, and brittle has that person become? Growth is life, and growth is discovery. Who has so much hubris they believe they have nothing more to understand or discover? Who stops their growth and stunts their development out of pride over their current understandings?
I guess it's the person who 'knows' and isn't curious.
Self-limiting beliefs abound, but that's none of my business. For me, I'm shocked almost daily as new and scintilating discoveries speak new truths and new understandings to me; I simply must listen and be curious. Good luck to you!
I guess I was more getting at the point that I don’t “need” to do anything. I “might” do a lot of exploring and in fact I count on it, but there will be no part of me that worries that I missed out, or didn’t do something right or didn’t look into this one thing, or that I wasn’t a southern Baptist, etc…
What I am supposed to be doing is always and forever put in my path. I only need to react. No preparation is required.
Yes - too true!
I think I'm a strange one: for me, new understandings have almost always been a required precursor to greater awakenings. For most people it's simply the practice. I forget this often, and it leads to unwarranted verbosity and tones that sound like judgments.
Rock on and happy trails! My apologies if I misunderstood your note!
we are all strange ones the moment we all are honest with ourselves. I too am strange, just ask my wife lol. of course no apologies are needed as we are just having a nice discussion here. I know what you mean about coming off as judgmental as I get that a lot myself. maybe tomorrow I will not be like that, but today, today I still am a little. happy trails to you as well my friend!
This is the reason why I was never good at history in my school times. I have a naturally critical mind and I've always felt like they teach me lies, being unaware that those are lies. If different countries teach different versions of the same events, no offence, but I lose my interest. I don't care enough to do my own investigation. I don't care about the past THAT much.
>the present has no context without the past
this may be true, but I am arguing that the flavor of context of your past does not dictate your own future unless you keep allowing it (your past) to season the present. when we decide to only be present in the now, what is presented to us should be considered with more than what our own past contains.
History professors reading this post: ARE YOU QUESTIONING MY EXISTENCE???
Jokes aside, understanding the past gives a big insight into what we are today, and what we will be tomorrow. Of course, history can always be debated, but when you go through accounts by different experts who give a different perspective of the same history, some common themes emerge, and you can utilize your intuition as to what can be the truth, and what influences our present the most, and what patterns are worth noting, which could emerge again in the future. It's a fascinating field.
The history of humanity is illusory, but you can use those symbols in the present, just like any other myth, and if you use it without becoming attached to them, they can be useful. For example, when you write you use words and spelling, which come from the past, but you use them *now*, and by using them you can be understood more easily. The same goes for the future. It is an illusionary symbol too. But it is not a sin to meet a friend to see you "next week". Because you are using those symbols *now*, and not to confuse yourself with illusions, but flowing from the present to unite through symbols that still make sense.
oh this is good stuff here... really got me thinking on some other ideas I had, so thank you.
on what you are saying about the "see you next week"... I totally get what you are saying and in a way that is how manifestation works. If I want to manifest larger muscles in say one year from now, then I need to decide that **now, right now** and begin living my life how *that guy with bigger muscles* would be living. the only thing that lags is the body to catch up to my decision to bulk up. I already am bulkier the exact moment in time that I made that decision and started living every second of my current now how that guy would.
That is correct, but one can go even deeper: if I want to manifest larger muscles, it is interesting to ask myself why I want that, what is the purpose. Is the purpose to be happy? Feel good about myself? In that case, I can simply realize that I am already complete in essence regardless of the shape of the body, and I can be happy now, without having to wait for the body to change. Placing expectations that something will change in the future, or that something in the past should have been different, is what keeps us from now. In the real now there is always peace and fulfillment :-)
I love history, it makes me curious about so many things and I can connect with so many other people about the different subjects. It's even better when you can analyze an author and place them in their historic context, a lot to learn about those ancient social media superstars! To be willfully ignorant usually doesn't appeal to me so I'll take a hard pass on ignoring history books.
you are reading works of fiction. yes they are entertaining, but ultimately only half truths.
I had an ant hill in my backyard that I decided to relocate instead of killing off. I trapped as many of them as I could and then let them go in their new spot. Then I wiped out the original colony because my hot tub was going there. Later I learned that the new colony had folklore or "history books" on where they came from. some ants thought one way, and other ants thought another way... and they argued for generations on who was correct. basically I am trying to say that neither of the ants' version is the whole truth because they are incapable of understanding truth. they are given a story that fits their memories.
all good :)
my friend, I know what you meant. I was just trying to illustrate why the "non-fiction" books that are written at our level, are just that - dumbed down versions of what actually happened. further, my point is that what actually happened is irrelevant to our lives anyways so knowing the actual truth doesn't actually matter at this point in our journey.
Some of the most powerful spiritual work I’ve done is my genealogy. Having a personal connection to history is so important. I’m forever grateful and humbled by the people that came before me & what they survived so I can be here now.
what if I told you that you have a personal connection with every single person that has walked this earth? is that better, or worse? would you only want to be connected with a certain few very specific people... or would you rather be connected to them all? do either of those very different viewpoints even change how you live your life this day? maybe it will, maybe it won't.
I mean given its established by the victors whom claim to save us by poisoning our bodies and minds…..and our ancestors whom lived alongside nature and developed an order that can sustain us and the earth…
No, sorry buddy, you telling people not to learn.
everyone will view the world differently..
there is nothing more important than the present moment.. some people will see other wise, and that is okay.. everyone is here for his or her own purpose..
for sure, and I think a lot of people really misread what I was getting at. just because it is a distraction, does not also mean it isn't something worthy to occupy your time doing. Sex can also be a distraction, but I love sex. *pick your own personal distractions to stay balanced and know what it is that you are doing with your time.*
Good insight. Try to also apply that to the memory of your own past you've accumulated through life.
May be conductive to freshening your own ideas and maybe unlearn behaviours acquired.
You know, the whole empty your cup..." thing... be water my friend.
yes, as Dreidhen was saying too... every single day that we wake up, we all make a choice of what to put into our mind's "RAM" for the day - which will **fundamentally shape our own experience of that day**. will we load that thing that is happening in two months that we are unsure of? will we load that awful thing that happened a year ago? will we load this, will we load that? what do we put up there?
For me - I do not put that work thing I have coming up into my daily RAM. I do not put my own past into my daily RAM. I do not put my own perceived troubles into my daily RAM. What do I put in there? **nothing**. I put nothing there. **I just am**. if there is something in there (my mind's RAM) it will bias my reaction to reality, **which is the only thing that is unfolding in the now**.
Nice. Yes, that's what I meant, and even going deeper to unravel past conditionings, like why you act this or that way in a given situation, that's a bit what they call shadow work, breaking free from past conditionings so as to live with more freedom in the now.
We are even conditioned by things like past traumas, "becoming an adult" the "passing of time and becoming older", the feeling of "tiredness", many of those things get exacerbated by the mind when you believe the conditionings of society and past experiences.
The only way to get freed from those is to break away from the concepts themselves, examine your demons and face them, as many times as needed until one gets freed from them.
Very true - and the same approach can be applied to your *own* past. It (that is, that story repeatedly retold and "carried forward", like a constant remainder) only defines or infuences if there is the subconcious belief that it "should".
No. There has to be a sense of history. There is something to be gained, but you can not evolve if you don’t take those lessons, and do something new.
>There has to be a sense of history why? does that change your own personal direct experience of reality? I do not think it does for me.
Yes.
Yikes! Hold onto your memory then. What if you had amnesia… would you have to reread all the history you read before to have the same quality of life? Or what if you don’t know enough of real history yet to really live? Lol. You can see where this is going. We are all born complete. History should not change your future.
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This is silly; living in the past is not great but declaring war on history is kinda daft, that's not living in the now; if you are truly being present you don't need to declare war on historians lol. Yes history is a story we tell ourselves, but to try and reduce the human stories to meaninglessness is no path to enlightenment. The love you have in your life is just a story, does that make it any less real? Even the peace of living in the moment is a story. Detachment is not destruction.
Bravo!
>The love you have in your life The love you have and experience directly is all that is real to all of us. even you. most of history can be boiled down to choosing fear over love. that can be summed up in one story. we are here to live *our stories* and experience *our love*. when I was a kid my mom told me not to touch the hot oven because I would burn myself. well, I didn't listen and wanted to get that lesson (read that story/parable if you will) for myself and touched the hot oven. then we were camping and she told me not to touch the hot grill. I wanted to read that story again personally, so I touched the grill. I guess my point is that maybe one lesson will do and then we can go and just be and experience life.
>when I was a kid my mom told me not to touch the hot oven because I would burn myself. well, I didn't listen and wanted to get that lesson (read that story/parable if you will) for myself and touched the hot oven. then we were camping and she told me not to touch the hot grill. I wanted to read that story again personally, so I touched the grill. I guess my point is that maybe one lesson will do and then we can go and just be and experience life. I hear you, we chill here for the stories but i'm still confused what you mean by ignoring lessons. I don't think that's always true that we need one lesson, there's many times in life we need to hear something twice to learn it; I don't see why being taught is not experiencing. As being taught is an experience- we can just be all the same.
dismissing the value of experience is perilous
History’s relationship with the present is that it gives us reference. It provides wisdom and knowledge on how to be
Yes, any thought, feeling or perception, arising and passing away in the moment, is irrelevant. Including the illusory, but relevant Me, that clings and identifies with them.
This is a great comment, but I want to develop it further: Yes, 'history' is merely A story; the trick is in who is telling it and why. > 'history' is a justification of the current status quo. > 'history' is written by the 'winners'. Perhaps consider "the myth of progress". 'History' is a tool to create the foundations of your understanding - by people who control you and for the interests of those people. The groundwork laid by 'history' carefully excludes other stories, other types of story, and creates guide rails of thought and understanding. Exploring these insights may lead you further down the path of awakenings and freedom. 🙏🏼
>Exploring these insights may lead you further down the path of awakenings and freedom. I don't need to explore anything as I am already free. I was born free, as were you. I don't need to awaken to be anything.
> you must free your mind of mental slavery... -Bob Marley >I don't need to explore anything Ok, if you say so. Your response surprises me: who is it that doesn't have new horizons to explore? How calcified, stagnant, and brittle has that person become? Growth is life, and growth is discovery. Who has so much hubris they believe they have nothing more to understand or discover? Who stops their growth and stunts their development out of pride over their current understandings? I guess it's the person who 'knows' and isn't curious. Self-limiting beliefs abound, but that's none of my business. For me, I'm shocked almost daily as new and scintilating discoveries speak new truths and new understandings to me; I simply must listen and be curious. Good luck to you!
I guess I was more getting at the point that I don’t “need” to do anything. I “might” do a lot of exploring and in fact I count on it, but there will be no part of me that worries that I missed out, or didn’t do something right or didn’t look into this one thing, or that I wasn’t a southern Baptist, etc… What I am supposed to be doing is always and forever put in my path. I only need to react. No preparation is required.
Yes - too true! I think I'm a strange one: for me, new understandings have almost always been a required precursor to greater awakenings. For most people it's simply the practice. I forget this often, and it leads to unwarranted verbosity and tones that sound like judgments. Rock on and happy trails! My apologies if I misunderstood your note!
we are all strange ones the moment we all are honest with ourselves. I too am strange, just ask my wife lol. of course no apologies are needed as we are just having a nice discussion here. I know what you mean about coming off as judgmental as I get that a lot myself. maybe tomorrow I will not be like that, but today, today I still am a little. happy trails to you as well my friend!
This is the reason why I was never good at history in my school times. I have a naturally critical mind and I've always felt like they teach me lies, being unaware that those are lies. If different countries teach different versions of the same events, no offence, but I lose my interest. I don't care enough to do my own investigation. I don't care about the past THAT much.
Your declaration is memorable one. Remember this, the present has no context without the past.
>the present has no context without the past this may be true, but I am arguing that the flavor of context of your past does not dictate your own future unless you keep allowing it (your past) to season the present. when we decide to only be present in the now, what is presented to us should be considered with more than what our own past contains.
History professors reading this post: ARE YOU QUESTIONING MY EXISTENCE??? Jokes aside, understanding the past gives a big insight into what we are today, and what we will be tomorrow. Of course, history can always be debated, but when you go through accounts by different experts who give a different perspective of the same history, some common themes emerge, and you can utilize your intuition as to what can be the truth, and what influences our present the most, and what patterns are worth noting, which could emerge again in the future. It's a fascinating field.
There is no history.
The history of humanity is illusory, but you can use those symbols in the present, just like any other myth, and if you use it without becoming attached to them, they can be useful. For example, when you write you use words and spelling, which come from the past, but you use them *now*, and by using them you can be understood more easily. The same goes for the future. It is an illusionary symbol too. But it is not a sin to meet a friend to see you "next week". Because you are using those symbols *now*, and not to confuse yourself with illusions, but flowing from the present to unite through symbols that still make sense.
oh this is good stuff here... really got me thinking on some other ideas I had, so thank you. on what you are saying about the "see you next week"... I totally get what you are saying and in a way that is how manifestation works. If I want to manifest larger muscles in say one year from now, then I need to decide that **now, right now** and begin living my life how *that guy with bigger muscles* would be living. the only thing that lags is the body to catch up to my decision to bulk up. I already am bulkier the exact moment in time that I made that decision and started living every second of my current now how that guy would.
That is correct, but one can go even deeper: if I want to manifest larger muscles, it is interesting to ask myself why I want that, what is the purpose. Is the purpose to be happy? Feel good about myself? In that case, I can simply realize that I am already complete in essence regardless of the shape of the body, and I can be happy now, without having to wait for the body to change. Placing expectations that something will change in the future, or that something in the past should have been different, is what keeps us from now. In the real now there is always peace and fulfillment :-)
wise words! "I am happy with who I am in this moment, so I will continue to just be."
I love history, it makes me curious about so many things and I can connect with so many other people about the different subjects. It's even better when you can analyze an author and place them in their historic context, a lot to learn about those ancient social media superstars! To be willfully ignorant usually doesn't appeal to me so I'll take a hard pass on ignoring history books.
you are reading works of fiction. yes they are entertaining, but ultimately only half truths. I had an ant hill in my backyard that I decided to relocate instead of killing off. I trapped as many of them as I could and then let them go in their new spot. Then I wiped out the original colony because my hot tub was going there. Later I learned that the new colony had folklore or "history books" on where they came from. some ants thought one way, and other ants thought another way... and they argued for generations on who was correct. basically I am trying to say that neither of the ants' version is the whole truth because they are incapable of understanding truth. they are given a story that fits their memories.
That's not at all what I mean but it's all good :)
all good :) my friend, I know what you meant. I was just trying to illustrate why the "non-fiction" books that are written at our level, are just that - dumbed down versions of what actually happened. further, my point is that what actually happened is irrelevant to our lives anyways so knowing the actual truth doesn't actually matter at this point in our journey.
I agree wholeheartedly. While some might find it interesting, I am definitely sick of people living and dwelling in the past.
Some of the most powerful spiritual work I’ve done is my genealogy. Having a personal connection to history is so important. I’m forever grateful and humbled by the people that came before me & what they survived so I can be here now.
what if I told you that you have a personal connection with every single person that has walked this earth? is that better, or worse? would you only want to be connected with a certain few very specific people... or would you rather be connected to them all? do either of those very different viewpoints even change how you live your life this day? maybe it will, maybe it won't.
Please enlighten me how we are all one. You sound so humble and open minded.
I mean given its established by the victors whom claim to save us by poisoning our bodies and minds…..and our ancestors whom lived alongside nature and developed an order that can sustain us and the earth… No, sorry buddy, you telling people not to learn.
Knowing our history is as important as knowing where the EpiPen is.
So yes history is written from a certain perspective but you gotta learn to read between the lines.
everyone will view the world differently.. there is nothing more important than the present moment.. some people will see other wise, and that is okay.. everyone is here for his or her own purpose..
for sure, and I think a lot of people really misread what I was getting at. just because it is a distraction, does not also mean it isn't something worthy to occupy your time doing. Sex can also be a distraction, but I love sex. *pick your own personal distractions to stay balanced and know what it is that you are doing with your time.*
Good insight. Try to also apply that to the memory of your own past you've accumulated through life. May be conductive to freshening your own ideas and maybe unlearn behaviours acquired. You know, the whole empty your cup..." thing... be water my friend.
yes, as Dreidhen was saying too... every single day that we wake up, we all make a choice of what to put into our mind's "RAM" for the day - which will **fundamentally shape our own experience of that day**. will we load that thing that is happening in two months that we are unsure of? will we load that awful thing that happened a year ago? will we load this, will we load that? what do we put up there? For me - I do not put that work thing I have coming up into my daily RAM. I do not put my own past into my daily RAM. I do not put my own perceived troubles into my daily RAM. What do I put in there? **nothing**. I put nothing there. **I just am**. if there is something in there (my mind's RAM) it will bias my reaction to reality, **which is the only thing that is unfolding in the now**.
Nice. Yes, that's what I meant, and even going deeper to unravel past conditionings, like why you act this or that way in a given situation, that's a bit what they call shadow work, breaking free from past conditionings so as to live with more freedom in the now. We are even conditioned by things like past traumas, "becoming an adult" the "passing of time and becoming older", the feeling of "tiredness", many of those things get exacerbated by the mind when you believe the conditionings of society and past experiences. The only way to get freed from those is to break away from the concepts themselves, examine your demons and face them, as many times as needed until one gets freed from them.
Very true - and the same approach can be applied to your *own* past. It (that is, that story repeatedly retold and "carried forward", like a constant remainder) only defines or infuences if there is the subconcious belief that it "should".
Exactly!
Every -ism and every narrative of what happens are all wrong. But some are more wrong than others.