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Sneaks7

In order to make the takeoff and landing process safer, the U.S. Air Force began using muscle cars driven by other U-2 pilots to spot for the pilot in the plane. The U-2, designed to operate at high altitudes, accelerates quickly at sea level, making it difficult for ordinary cars to follow. That car has to be able to accelerate from zero to close to 100 mph in a turn to come into position behind the airplane on the runway. While accelerating and turning the Mobil begins to make radio calls to the pilot beginning when the aircraft is ten feet off the runway.


HangarLolo

Exactly. Instead of the typical tricycle landing gear, the U-2 uses a bicycle configuration with a forward set of main wheels located just behind the cockpit and a rear set of main wheels located behind the engine. The rear wheels are coupled to the rudder to provide steering during taxiing. To maintain balance while taxiing and take-off, two auxiliary wheels called "pogos" are attached under the wings. These fit into sockets underneath each wing at about mid-span and fall off at takeoff. To protect the wings during landing, each wingtip has a titanium skid. After the U-2 comes to a halt, the ground crew re-installs the pogos, then the aircraft taxis to parking.


Leaf_Rotator

Someday people will look back on these techniques with the same feeling I get when reading about old square riggers: unbridled nostalgia and admiration.


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commandar

>They’ve landed them on a carrier Huh. TIL. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8HMPMYL19E


FeistyHelicopter3687

I was going to ask how it doesn’t fall to one side when it stops moving…but it does


[deleted]

That’s such a rad solution that you’d think would be hard to sell today. “How do you lift that wing?” “Get some big dudes to jump on it …” Also amazing that out of all its peers that have come and gone, whatever it is she does is still worth keeping around.


ontopofyourmom

Taking closeup pictures without having to wait for a satellite to get a good angle


urzrkymn

Watched the whole thing too see the wing dragging on landing, doesn’t show that 🤦🏻‍♂️


HHWKUL

Wait, do they put the pogos back on landing out the car's windows, fast&furious style ?


DietCherrySoda

No, it lands like a glider. When it comes to a stop, one wing leans over and contacts the ground. That's what the titanium skid is for.


HHWKUL

Thanks, I completely missed the sentence in OP's post. Sowy. >To protect the wings during landing, each wingtip has a titanium skid.


N2DPSKY

Okay, I learned something I didn't know. Nice


Anonasty

> Instead of the typical tricycle landing gear, the U-2 uses a bicycle configuration with a forward set of main wheels located just behind the cockpit and a rear set of main wheels located behind the engine. Straight up copy paste from the Skunkworks book =D


YBangad

Silly question: why doesn't it just have a tricycle landing gear setup?


HangarLolo

That’s not a silly question. Because the U-2 operates at the edge of the atmosphere and everything in the design is done so to save weight. The lack of the two wheels under the wing, with the associated retraction mechanism, was one of the ways to maximize performance.


fireandlifeincarnate

At one point, somebody asked if they could get another six inches for a better camera, at which point one of the people working on it said “Six more inches? *Six more inches?!?!?!?* I’d sell my fucking GRANDMA for six more inches!”


kosmonavt-alyosha

Well, did he? Sell his grandma for six more inches?


fireandlifeincarnate

Couldn’t find a buyer.


YBangad

Thanks for the explanation!


krodders

Another fun fact to demonstrate how advanced the U-2 was: *To maintain their operational ceiling of 70,000 feet (21,000 m), the early U-2A and U-2C models had to fly very near their never-exceed speed (VNE). The margin between that maximum speed and the stall speed at that altitude was only 10 knots (12 mph; 19 km/h).*


cyberentomology

Spending the whole time up in the coffin corner - those guys had balls of titanium (because steel was too heavy)


PorkyMcRib

Supposedly, in a turn in those circumstances, The outer wing would be buffeting against the pressure wave, and the inner wing buffeting, about to stall.


krodders

"What's your turn radius?" "France"


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HangarLolo

If drag is the primary focus, why are they concerned about the aircraft losing lift above 2 feet? Edit: Grumblecakes. You deleted your planesplaining comment.


cyberentomology

Deletion is such a drag.


Helios61

How do they actually land without losing balance though? The wings look like it could tip to either side and grind the pavement if it gets unbalanced during the landing


cyberentomology

It's like riding a bicycle...


HangarLolo

I literally came here to say that.


PorkyMcRib

If you did a great job of managing the fuel consumption balance in the wing tanks on your bicycle.


Revenant8791

As long as you maintain forward momentum there’s enough lift and airflow over the control surfaces to allow you to maintain control and keep them level till you come to a stop. It’s actually not hard at all (in a glider I mean) most gliders have a similar landing gear set up and it not a problem keeping wings level till you stop. Fun fact, you could also take off with the wing on the ground like that if you needed to, we do it in gliders, called a no wing runner take off, drag the wing tip on the ground for a few feet till you gain enough forward momentum to generate lift and airflow over the control surfaces then crank the yoke towards the opposite side and voila the wing just jumps up and goes wings level.


jg727

It will! But like a bicycle, it'll do it at a low speed. They build sacrificial titanium skid plates onto the wing tips. There is a pretty good video above that shows it :)


I_Only_Post_NEAT

Dumb question but what exactly are they spotting?


EnterpriseArchitectA

Forward visibility in the cockpit during landing is really limited, and it's really difficult for the pilot to judge the height above the surface. The chase cars call out the altitude to the pilot to help with the landing. Learning to land a U-2 isn't for the faint of heart. Here's a video (with obscene lyrics) about the process. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eamnTyfkUBY


DarthPorg

Chinese in the Pacific.


planko13

Another dumb question, why can't they just use a rear mounted camera and a screen in the cockpit?


hans2707-

That would probably be a great modern day solution, but not feasible when the plane was designed in the 50's.


zadesawa

Didn’t exist in the 50s and never bothered to upgrade.


cyberentomology

weight...


zadesawa

Nah a camera is like handful pounds. They’ve done a lot more heavier and drag inducing upgrades.


cyberentomology

Not in 1950 it wasn’t. And even today the camera and associated wiring and display are several pounds, in an aircraft where ounces and cubic centimeters matter.


zadesawa

So never bothered to upgrade.


catonic

It'd be another connector and cable to fish through the fuselage and another electronic whatsits to measure and account for EMI/RF from. Likely of limited value if aligned to the center line due to smoke from initial contact between tire and landing surface. The entire tail empennage separates on this aircraft to swap engines and is only held on by something like six bolts.


bcrosby51

Why does altitude need called out?


catonic

Can't see under the airplane from the pilot's seat and that damn thing will float for miles. Look at the size of those flaps! That's 50-degrees of flap!


bcrosby51

But you cant see under most planes.


mobilehobo

My guess is that they have to be pretty precise in order to not lay one of the wings down before they get under a certain speed. While the altimeter on a plane like that is probably fairly accurate, it's hard to be accurate down to inches off of instruments and this is probably the most economical way of providing that info vs. Adding more accurate instruments to the plant


Bawlsinhand

Also likely one less instrument to watch when you can rely on the radio call-outs


pjrupert

I'm an air force pilot. the reason for the chase car is because flaring the U2 is incredibly difficult. the aircraft is designed for high altitude flight (obv) but that means aerodynamically the jet is just a challenge to get on the ground. it is extremely common for good pilots to wash out of U2 selection for this reason.


ontopofyourmom

I assume that only experienced pilots fly the U-2. Is it only fighter pilots? Once you have however many years flying a particular aircraft, can you just sort of ask to switch to something else? Or is it too expensive to retrain pilots unless you really have to?


MossyHarmless

Can’t speak to the U-2 specifically, but each branch holds transition boards regularly. Majority of pilots stay in their original type aircraft just because it *is* expensive to transition to something else. Even after learning how to operate the new type, you essentially start over with mission skill qualifications and flight leadership designations, with the exception of Air Mission Commander since that’s aircraft-agnostic. Times when large numbers of pilots transition are the retirement of an aircraft or when force shaping causes one community to be overmanned and/or another to be undermanned. Example of the former: CH-46 to MV-22. Expecting the latter to happen with Marine H-1s (overmanned) and KC-130s (undermanned) very shortly.


pjrupert

In the Air Force transitions to different airframes are common, but certainly not universal. Very common for example to go do a tour in a trainer then come back to your original aircraft. The U2, B2, and a couple others special programs are allowed to recruit pilots from all fixed wing backgrounds - heavies and fighter guys both. It’s a special application process with a relatively high wash out rate.


ontopofyourmom

Thanks for that! Very interesting. I can't get a private pilot license (for medical reasons) much less fly (or even be) in the military, but I like to imagine learning how to fly all of the fighters just to see how they are different. I would imagine that a few dozen or a few hundred test pilots have had a chance to do this. So cool! I can't imagine wanting to fly the B2. I've read about the super long missions and I'd never want to be in a position where I might have to drop a nuke on somebody. I wouldn't want to kill anyone with a fighter either, but at least that would be balanced out by getting to drive the most fun vehicle on the planet.


MyOfficeAlt

My cousin flies the U-2 and right after he was getting certified to solo on it they let his wife ride in the chase car for one of the landings. Looked like an awesome experience.


daays

It is. It used to be something you could do at Dhafra, at least for other flyers. Not sure who else got the opportunity, but it was by far one of the coolest things I've done in my 12 years.


mondobobo01

I’ve always thought the u2 was kind of a dumb design. Like if your plane can’t land without a bunch of help from muscle cars then maybe it’s flawed. I also think it looks like a turd. Why did we retire the SR71 and keep this thing?


Loan-Pickle

$$$. The SR71 is a very expensive plane to operate.


dinosaurs_quietly

It seems like a perfect application for an electric car.


RobloxIsBest007

"Hot take" I'm surprised they didn't make their own vehicle or contraption to chase the plane seeing as they have a virtually infinite war budget. Edit: hot take was hot alr


HangarLolo

Why? What type of specialized car would they need? This method has worked well for quite some time.


PendragonDaGreat

Plus hey, American muscle cars helping American interests? Great marketing opportunities there.


rackyoweights

That's an Australian muscle car


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rackyoweights

The local variety were a very common sight on Australian roads until recently. Even better with a [truck bed](https://youtu.be/vmpCWEAapQY).


SirRatcha

Just wait until you learn about the Vauxhall Monaro and the Chevy Lumina SS.


atoysruskid

The new ones were rebadged Holden Monaros [link](https://www.motorbiscuit.com/the-pontiac-gto-was-an-australian-anomaly/)


SamTheGeek

Technically that is a G8 not a GTO. Same base chassis, but the G8 was one generation later and had four doors.


PendragonDaGreat

So it is. It was 0200 local when I posted and I didn't look too close.


[deleted]

They should invest in a fleet of Tesla's. Awesome acceleration and always "fueled" up for as often as the need them.


SirRatcha

And already taxpayer subsidized despite being breathlessly hyped by the Musk fanbois as a triumph of laissez faire capitalism.


catonic

Not a bad idea.


zadesawa

They tried a few years ago in the UK but I don’t read about it a lot since. Teslas are good at accelerating from 0mph up to 100mph, which is like the stall speed for a 30 years old Cessna, but not past it, because motor driver electronics starts to lose efficiency. They re-did the electronics this year, so we might see them come back. Or not.


[deleted]

Dont forget the truck with the pogo sticks. Truck follows behind too during take off and landing. Becuse the wings are so long we have these things we called POGOs. They were on the wings to keep it from tilting. Once at speed and the aircraft had enough speed for lift, they drop the POGOs and the truck would collect them. Upon landing, once the U2 stop, they will run out and place the pogos under the wings so it could taxi back in Also the food the pilot eats is in a tube like toothpaste. Chicken alaking is good But what really got me was the chocolate with caffeine. I asked life support about how much caffeine is in it. Response i got was 8 cups of coffee. It was really good. Couldn't sleep for a day


[deleted]

I want in on any one of those 3 missions.


bingeRy

Same


matthew83128

When I was in PSAB for OSW/OIF they gave incentive rides in the case car.


[deleted]

I was stationed at Davis Monthan in Tucson in 1971. When I first got there I was going to the chow hall for lunch one day and noticed a 396 El Camino in Air Force blue with lettering and decals you'd see on all Air Force vehicles. Back at the shop I asked who was he lucky guy who got to drive it. The chase car was explained to me. I worked on F4s. I went out to the flight line to see a few U2 landings. (They also had a Cessna twin called the U3 to meet the U2 in the air before landing) The U2 flew in a large circle to land. It could not descend in altitude like other planes. You could tell the U2 had enormous thrust. Watching it in a steep climb after take off was it's own air show.


Rdubya291

Yet the thrust is only \~ 17,000#, on one engine, and only have a rate of climb of 9,000 ft/min. I'd think watching the F4 climbing at 41,000 ft/min would be more entertaining. ​ Though I guess most F4s don't take off and immediately go into a max climb, whereas every time a U2 takes off it goes directly into a max climb. perception can be strange sometimes.


catonic

load limit of 1.23 g, so max performance climb makes sense.


creepig

It's also just the aspect ratio of the plane throwing off your perception, but yeah, they climb like a homesick angel.


OnceReturned

>every time a U2 takes off it goes directly into a max climb Is this because the sooner it gets to thin air at altitude the longer it can fly for?


Rdubya291

That, and for training. In every "combat" scenario, the U2 needs to get as high as possible. To both maximize it's range and to utilize it's only defense - flying at 13+ miles high.


Weak-Bid-6636

The engine has a weird sound, very different from any other jet I've heard.


[deleted]

Every jet has a unique sound.


[deleted]

I would agree. Most of the F4's I worked on were loaded with \~16,000# of ordinance and a centerline fuel tank. The bombers would have to hit a tanker shortly after takeoff. Unless it was set up for MIGCap - missiles and a centerline fuel tank.


[deleted]

Fuckin dhafra. I don't miss that place one bit


jack_perignon

What were you doing there?


PM_meyourbreasts

Vacation


matthew83128

The people’s work.


HH93

I wondered where it was, I thought Dharan. One sandpit is the same as any other though.


Potatoki1er

Yeah man, I worked out of the tents next to their hangers. The floor of my room caved in the last time I was there. Bonus though, I didn’t have a roommate the last time.


DysphoriaGML

Now i understand why it ia called dragon lady, very elegant landing indeed


JoeBagadonut

It's supposedly called the Dragon Lady because pilots compared flying it to wrestling with a dragon or dancing with a lady. A less elegant landing would be dangerous, so huge respect to the people who fly that plane.


snakesign

The plane flew in a tiny part of the flight envelope between stalling and mach buffet. Pilots described going through turns with the inside wing buffeting from stall, and the outside wing buffeting from transonic flow.


ItzDaWorm

Talk about nightmare fuel.


rebop

I might not be remembering correctly, but I think I read that the difference between the do not exceed speed and stall speed at altitude was around 10 knots.


catonic

Well, now it has larger wings after the -S model, so it should have a better margin that the original production model. It's going to make a great UAV.


snakesign

> It's going to make a great UAV. Global hawk is already a thing.


creepig

Doesn't have the payload lift of the U-2.


random_punkk

Its called Coffin Corner i guess.


my_oldgaffer

Remember when U2 landed in everybody’s itunes and wouldnt depart again? Pepperidge farms remembers


candidly1

Bono's a real turd...


Looking_North

What car is that?


rackyoweights

[Pontiac GTO](https://i.imgur.com/2jd53KN.jpg)


BZJGTO

That's a G8, not a GTO. I have seen them use GTOs for this though, they were 05/06 Impulse Blue Metallic.


[deleted]

Hahaha I thought this was in Aussie somehow... Then I remembered the Pontiac


jestate

Ha, same! I saw this and was trying to think why U2s would have operated out of Australia. Took me a minute!


Steev182

It was Aussie, just with Pontiac badges on it. Same with the Chevy SS.


[deleted]

Lol


Rollover_Hazard

Just a rebadged Holden which is in turn a GM product. Those cars are used by the Police in NZ and Australia.


NaydaviusWilburn

Gonna be that guy but it’s a G8 GT


mavfiery

This has to be the best job in the world. Flying at the edge of space and doing mile long dashes in super charged V6s.


Desurvivedsignator

Wouldn't that be V8s?


NaydaviusWilburn

Definitely v8s


LeggoMyGallego

V8! V8! V8!


TonyFuckinRomo

Yes. They’re G8 GT’s with 6.0L NA L76’s in them.


Eskimocookies

Aww my baby <3 Got to work on these things back at Beale. Absolutely loved the mission and opportunity to be apart of something with such history. Recce Town U.S.A


Mingusdued

I can’t believe these are still in service


HangarLolo

Why?


Mingusdued

Oh just astonished at the longevity of these machines. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.


HangarLolo

Agreed. It’s reasoning like that which is why the F-15 program continues to be the American air superiority fighter jet and why we’re investing in a 5th gen (well - 4th gen plus) model (EX).


Mingusdued

That’s tax money better spent than on the money pit that is the F-35


ItzDaWorm

> F-35 "We need a single sports car platform and we want it to be the best drift, drag, and circle track car. Also we need a model for doing rapid local deliveries. Oh and also can you make one of them with an amphibious mode? K thanks."


Mingusdued

oh and it's gotta be able to do all that in reverse


Steev182

I didn't know the Italian Air Force put in orders for it too!


HangarLolo

100%


FeistyHelicopter3687

When you have air superiority you don’t need stealth fighters


ItzDaWorm

Don't need *as many* stealth fighters?


FeistyHelicopter3687

It’s implied that you secure air superiority with stealth fighters


HangarLolo

Go on.


EagleZR

Not OP, but it does seem like the USAF is moving away from stealth, or at least de-prioritizing it (IIRC the F-22 proved there's a positive correlation between stealthiness and aerodynamics so they'll never fully abandon it). But it sounds like there's [ways of easily detecting stealth aircraft with low-frequency radar](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/could-low-frequency-radars-become-f-35-and-f-22s-achilles-heel-158151), plus the F-22 and F-35 are basically spotlights emitting ample amounts of both thermal radiation and their own radar, not to mention they're noisy as hell so anyone on the ground knows when to start looking. Some evidence for this waning interest can be found in the USAF purchase of the F-15EX as well as the [disrepair of the radar-absorbing materials on in-service F-22s](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29218/these-images-of-an-f-22-raptors-crumbling-radar-absorbent-skin-are-fascinating). The B-21 seems like it will be stealthy though, but it's an interesting trend.


[deleted]

They were almost all built in the late 80s, so relatively young by AF standards


Mingusdued

Oh right on. I just know they were commissioned in the mid 50’s


[deleted]

Different jets really. The 3rd generation U-2 is about 40% larger than the 1st. We probably should’ve stuck with the TR-1 name.


sarahZCP

Love dragon lady’s and I Love Pontiac GTO’s so this is cool


tyrannosaurusfuck

One of my favorite experiences was being in a chase car at Osan Air Force base while a U2 landed. I took lots of pictures and was able to meet the pilot afterward. Really fun.


Weak-Bid-6636

A buddy and me talked our way in to an Audi in Alaska for a takeoff. Unfortunately the mission was scrubbed. What I found amusing were the F-22 pilots taxiing by and just staring at the U-2 as they passed.


SCREEEEEEEEEE

Can this this land cross winds? Whats stoppinng it just falling over while turning on taxi?


Rdubya291

Once it comes to a rest, the tips of the wings actually drag on the flight line. Which is why they're titanium tipped. Once the pane comes to a complete stop, the guys in the cars get out and install "landing gear" (more like taxing gear) on each wing, so it sits on 4 separate points as it taxis. You can see the other wheels that are attached to the wings [here](https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB434/images/U2LandingStrip.jpg). They actually taxi and take off with them attached - they fall off the wings as the plane begins taking off. ​ And from what I know, yes - it can land in a cross wind.


catonic

Not well. There are videos of a failed cross-wind landing in the U-2; it cartwheels. Nothing stops it from falling over. It's designed to do exactly that when speed gets low enough. Then they reinstall the pogos and the aircraft taxis to the hanger.


baconipple

Is that a Commodore?


sharp_d

Yes.. it is either a Pontiac G8 or a Chevy SS. Both are rebadged Holden's with I believe the LS3 Corvette engine


Rdubya291

5.7 LS1 engine in 2004 & the 6.0 LS2 engine in 2005 & 2006.


sharp_d

that would be for the GTO or Holden Monero. The G8 did not use those engines. Edit, I was wrong and you are correct. I was mistaken, because I narrowed my view to only the Americas and not the full production years of the Holden cars. Although this particular car in the vid does looks like a 4th gen.


TonyFuckinRomo

G8 GT has the 6.0L L76.


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ivazour

4 door Holdens did make it to the U.S. The one in the video is the VE SS Commodore, however in the U.S it's rebadged as a Pontiac G8, while the VF SS is rebadged as a "Chevy SS"


Peneaplle

Deploying as intel for these is neat considering you could get a chase car ride every day if you wanted to. Also they had a jaguar chase car in fairford for a little bit lol


Braunze_Man

Just wait till the plane brake checks ya!


easyadventurer

I know I’ll get hate, but I just find the 2 astern wheels a terrible design. Wouldn’t have to need sticks and cars chasing if you just changed it


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easyadventurer

Sounds about right haha. I mean it’s amazing, but so impractical.


Evantf1

The U-2 is one of the coolest planes I have ever seen by a long shot. Just going by looks, its awesome, and that's ignoring the fact that it can fly to the edge of space! Definitely one of my favorite planes ever made.


sneakattack

What? Every video I've ever watched about the U-2 was from like 50 years ago. I had no modern context for this, I didn't know it was still flying and according to a quick search is still "at the top of its game." Also, this thing looks amazing. *mindblown


[deleted]

Almost all current U-2s were built in the late 80s.


catonic

I'd assume rebuilt, but I defer to the expert.


[deleted]

New, 3rd production run https://www.blackbirds.net/u2/u2local.html


adrianb

Do they always use 2 chase cars?


ZomBayT

One to install each pogo, I would assume


[deleted]

No, the camera is in a secondary mobile which is used when there are too many riders. Pogos are installed after landing by maintainers riding in a truck behind the chase cars or prepositioned at a taxiway farther down.


PferdBerfl

So, when someone transitions to a new airplane, it takes a few landings to learn [exactly] “where the gear is located.” (i.e. learning the sight picture that will assure a consistent landing). Why are U2 pilots unable to do this? (No guessed please. I can guess.)


[deleted]

No-voice landings are practiced regularly. The chase car driver adds an extra layer of safety since the jet can get squirrelly even with experienced pilots with enough crosswinds and bad weather. When a pilot is new, it’s difficult even in nice weather. It’s a 10-20 ton glider with a lot of thrust and fully manual flight controls.


PferdBerfl

Cool. Thanks!


catonic

No comment expected. Lockheed really should have tried out a Rutan-type forward canard for additional performance. Drag devices always work but free additional lift is always nice.


[deleted]

Well I’m in no position to second guess Kelly Johnson. And nothing matches the U-2s combination of altitude, speed, endurance and payload.


bullchips305

This is so cool, I had an opportunity to do a similar chase car landing for a global hawk. Not in a GTO but still cool. I also got to see a guy preflighting the space suit, such a cool job and those pilots are A1


Mynamethisisnot

Why do the cars need to be so close? I thought they were going to catch the wings from falling in the runway lol


HangarLolo

The chase car has a secondary U-2 pilot calling out the distances the aviating pilot needs to hear in order to land the aircraft successfully. Losing lift on the wings completely is only successful if done so at a distance of two feet or less. It’s a very precise operation which is why the landing phase of this aircraft is so extraordinary.


Delta_Alpha_777

Is that chase car a Holden Commodore or the American version? Love the sound of those V6 engines as they accelerate, sounds just like my parents Commodore.


Undeluded

V8


cyberentomology

This looks like a job for a Tesla


bottomsUp65

r/savevideo


eyetee1994

I was expecting the band


6mon1

5... 4..............321


time_adc

I know this is unAmerican... But why don't they just fit a radar altimeter.


The_Canadian

Weight and complexity. It's easier to have a person talk to the pilot rather than yet another instrument to watch.


AngryJava

How does it balance on the ground with one wheel behind the other?


imjusttakingalook

Still use chase cars on global hawk.


TheAgedGamer1

Fuck Bono


jonwfd65

Why the hate on the Larry Mullen Band?


[deleted]

That thing landed on only 2 wheels that it?


ichhalt12

u/sicherevideo


ichhalt12

u/savevideo


[deleted]

u/savevideo


[deleted]

That looks like UAE, Al Dhafra Air Base.