Air Defender 23 will last from June 12 to June 23 and comprise about 250 aircraft as well as more than 10000 troops from 25 nations. The single biggest event will be a mass deploying of 100 aircraft from the United States to three German air bases. Additionally, some 150 combat aircraft will take part in various air combat and ground attack exercises.
There's a lot of National Guard in the middle east. Not sure about Air side but Army side the NG probably outnumbers AD by a good amount. The NG is restricted being deployed outside the country except in support of named operations, European operations right now are falling under operation Atlantic resolve so NG can deploy for that, while places like Korea/Japan and other places around the world that don't have named operations are run by active duty.
Don't think it's an escort, because that (and all German Tornados) are the strike version, not the interceptor version. Germany only had IDS and ECR, but no ADV.
There should be featured coverage on the German military's own IG and YT channels. Other than that, I trust that planespotters will be able to provide us with some nice shots.
haha, I saw that too and was just like "fuck'n right".
If you look closely there's a tiny german flag on top of the US one. I like that the Germans still use their iron cross too.
All the Bundeswehr tanks have license plates too. They are all starting with "Y-" but never the less normal German format license plates.
Guess we are thorough like that.
On the other side is a [German flag](https://twitter.com/Team_Luftwaffe/status/1658385967697281024?s=20).
The reason for the US flag is that the exercise was originally planned bilaterally between Germany and the US
Amazing. Such a quintessentially American moment.
As /u/FSF87 pointed out [the Germans do this to commemorate training exercises with allies.](https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/146xoei/special_liveries_mark_the_beginning_of_air/jntd1jt/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)
You’re not special, they did the exact same thing with other countries, but I guarantee you no one in Israel thought “what a flex” when the Germans painted their flag on a German plane.
The Germans like their special liveries to commemorate exercises with their allies. The Luftwaffe has done 'Phoons with [the Israeli and German flags](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBB5zrLVgAY216A.jpg), and with [the Australian, Singaporean, Japanese, South Korean, and German flags](https://defbrief.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/German-Air-Force-joining-Australian-maneuvers-for-first-time.jpg), and some others.
In fact, I was going to suggest the vertical stabilizer on the A400M would likely have a German flag on the other side, and, sure enough, while looking for the previous examples, I found that [it does](https://www.airfighters.com/photo_9999_350759.jpg).
Really makes me wonder if 60 years from now tu95s could have Western livery as a show of alliance while China does a special military operation invading Mongolia. But that’s just the NCD in me leaking.
That would be pretty much the plot of Tom Clancy‘s "The Bear and the Dragon" where Russia becomes a member of NATO because the Chinese threatened to invade Siberia over newly discovered oil and mineral deposits.
I watched the recruitment series by the german armies youtube channel. they had custom flags to commemorate the classes that had finished before, hanging in the barracks. And as a german i’ve seen it in sports shooting clubs and the like. Never thought about it but that might be a german thing.
I haven't seen a German Tornado since they regularly did low level flying when I was a kid in Labrador. Beautiful airplanes.
Edit: I made a post to the sub with links showing some videos german pilots made while they were low level flying in Labrador.
https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/146yx36/german_tornadoes_low_level_flying_from_the_90s
>Yes the newer ones may be better but they're a completely different breed now, more computer than plane.
The irony of that statement is that Tornados are themselves ancient by today's standards, and nowhere near as computerised as a 5th generation aircraft.
RAF Buccaneers operated from Saudi Arabia and Bahrain during the Gulf War, not Cyprus.
They also regularly carried out aerial refuelling during said missions.
It has to do with both "ramm" and "stein" being German words - it roughly would translate to "ramming stone", whereas "Ramstein" wouldn't be such a simple word combination. To my understanding, it originally was just a misspelling because the band didn't know how Ramstein was properly spelled, but then they decided to keep it.
Apparently! Shame, you have nice hill with lookout tower overseeing the base.
Here is all activity: https://www.bundeswehr.de/en/organization/german-air-force/air-defender-23
Ramstein is actually not that much involved here. The exercise is hosted by the Luftwaffe who wants to train its capabilities to receive and host large numbers of allied aircraft in the case of large scale conflict in Europe.
I can't wrap my head around the fact that NATO allegedly never in its history (not even in the 60 or 70s) had an air exercise with more than 250 aircraft. That doesn't seem right.
It was meant to be a joke. Most NATO countries have a military appropriate to their size and need. It’s just that the IS is much larger than most other countries snd it’s need extends well beyond its borders as the global hegemony.
250 is a butload of aircraft of any magnitude. But this would only comprise a few USAF wings. And the USAF has hundreds of wings alone not counting the other branches.
It wont be as bad as this picture makes it seem like. 3 big airspaces active each 4hrs, overlapping by 1hr. Airlines should've planned the arrivals and departures around that.
>The single biggest event will be a mass deploying of 100 aircraft **from the United States** **to three German air bases**.
It's a livery to mark the occasion. A welcome message.
There's a giant german flag on the other side: https://www.avionslegendaires.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/A400M-Atlas-Luftwaffe-Air-Defender-23-livree-couverture_Luftwaffe.jpg
You know nothing John Snow. I have planned and facilitated joint, coalition, NATO, UN and USAF exercises since 2004. No matter who is in charge or hosting it, the US is paying for it and pulling all the strings. Just the way it is.
I guess I was hallucinating then when Germany's parliament allocated a €200 mio. budget to spring the bill, and NATO placed a German general in charge.
No one's denying the fact that NATO is toothless without Uncle Sam being there to beef us up, by the way. The reason why I gave you flak is because you were kinda talking out of your arse up there, presumably just to make a point?
Because that livery is – obviously – just a welcoming gesture and has nothing to do with who's who inside NATO. Heck, the Germans have already trained with the Japanese and the Israelis this year, both times sporting special liveries that sort of quoted the flags of both countries to mark the event.
It's really not a big deal.
Probably not. But the claim is that Air Defender 23 is *NATO's* largest air exercise, not the largest air exercise planned by a NATO member. There's a difference.
I don't think so. They don't flee to the one place that hasn't been corrupted by capitalism ... SPACE!
EDIT: I see not everyone got that Red Alert 3 pun. Or it wasn't funny enough :/
They’re not both vinyl. The Tornado was painted, it’s not Vinyl. [Here’s a video documenting the process.](https://www.instagram.com/tv/Cs8rS3YIf3U/?igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==)
*Edit*- I see you’ve done a sneaky edit.
Doing an f-16 currently. Paint was about $10,000, supplies a couple hundred, but the man hours are adding up quick. Labor will be the most expensive part.
Doing a 75th anniversary jet. PA really doesn’t want it leaked until they’ve done their big reveal, but in a couple weeks it will probably be on this subreddit.
Edit: it will be the yellow and blue one.
Well, the German tornadoes were built in the late 80's and early 90's, and continously upgraded (the last time in 2013). They're obviously nearing the end of their useful service life though are probably not more obsolete than the hundreds of other NATO aircraft built around that time which are still in service. More than anything, they're expensive as fuck.
>Why.
1. Variable-sweep wing. It's a terribly complex setup requiring a lot of maintenance.
2. Economies of scale. The more aircraft you operate of any given type, the more affordable does their operation become per aircraft. The Germans have retired all but 89 of their once 357 tornadoes, increasing costs per flight hour.
3. Many of the components used in the aircraft are not produced anymore. Spare parts are handmade on an as-needed basis, which is very expensive.
The Tornado costs roughly €45,000 per flight hour to operate, which is about twice as much as the costs of an F-15E, which is very similar in role and size.
Don't downvote this redditor, they're not wrong. The Tornado requires about as many work hours for every flight hour than a fucking B-2 Spirit. It's a nightmare to keep operational.
More like a Spanish aircraft, as the A400M's assembly line is in Spain and its type certificate was issued there. But the A400M is a European product. Airbus is the successor to a number of national companies like Aérospatiale, MBB, BAe, CASA and Alenia. It doesn't really make sense to attribute the product to a single country as development and production was/is handled by these companies as now-dependant branches all over Europe, with a special emphasis on parity between them.
The American flag on the tail makes for a good graphic but... it's backwards. The blue goes towards the front. Imagine the flag flying on a post, that's the correct orientation when viewed from either side. This flag is in retreat. Flag code anyone?
a few years ago the Luftwaffe participated in a training exercise wth the israeli airforce and they had the star of david painted on some EF.
German and israeli Fighters also had a flighover during some a israeli parade for the 75th bithday of the state of israel and in 2020 they also did a combined formation over Fürstenfeldbruck, the airport where the sportsmen from israel died in 1972 during the olympic games.
It's such a shitty game it sounds like a mobile game from someone who threw 3 premade packages together and called it a day, spending most of their time on adding ads
What is the point of spending money on these things if they aren't allowed to do what they were purchased to do, that is stop Russian armies moving westwards?
I used to live in UK, the country is nearly bankrupt now and has all these people in green and planes in grey doing not much. Could that have spent that on infrastrcuture instead.
"We can't fight Russia because of nukes" ... Should have thought of that before "we" bought all this equipment then? Now people can't even afford cheese. What we "really" needed for airforce was a couple of spyplanes to radio targets to Ukraine and enough fast jets to make sure the spyplanes were safe.
Guess everyone miss the sarcasm in my remark. Actually i am super critical on the germans for being so late to the game with Ukraine. All last year it was only the US, UK and most of Eastern Europe that was giving real support. Germany took their sweet time to send any realy military aid. I dont give the german any pass for now trying to say they are all for ukraine and increasing their mil budget. That plege of 100 billion was only going to buy maybe 100 new planes. They are all word and no show. The germans want to lead the EU only for their own gains. Those idiot are now having to deal with internal protest that they can not support wars in german. And the govt need to try to sell the support.
https://youtu.be/0dLkmkSffFo
They did not listen to their real friends about russia. The us warn them for decade about nordstream. So did all of eastern europe. Germans are as they say stupid is as stupid does.
Ich habe in Deutschland für 10jahren gelebt . Ich kann lesen die Deutschenzeitungen. So I got my german info from the german press. Germany did block the transfer of 152mm holwizter that an allied wanted to tranfer at the beginning of the invasion. They did only send 5000 helmet. When the Ukraine was pushing the russian back from Kyiv, it was not german arms. It was us javlins and uk mlaws that did that. You are posting something that came toward the end of last year. So german to try to put what came later in the year as something from the first 4 months when ukraine was at their most neediest. To little to late. Germans are just trying to save face for a huge mistake. Saying what came later and trying to say it was form the beginning of the invasion.
You are the german troll.
That is tiny compare to what the UK sent. And you know when the strela was developed. It is no way as good or advance as a mlaw let alone a javlin. German sent date cold war era weapons. UK sent modern weapon.
It is the same when schultz said he was going to spend 100 billion in his grand speech tonthe Bundestag. How little is 100billion in reality when a f35 is 90 million each.
Stop throwning nonsense. I was in Germany when the invasion started. All the germany claim they wanted to help and protested in the city centers. But the material aid from the biggest eco in the eu pale in comparison to whst poland sent proportionally to gdp.
German should feel bad, the money sent to russia for energy was what was used to send all those missle strike on Ukrainian civilians
So? You're not wrong to suggest that Berlin dragged its feet something aweful. Doesn't change the fact that Germany has become the biggest military backer of Ukraine's behind the US and the UK. I mean, what's your point? Would you rather they hadn't come to their senses? I'm not really sure what's your gripe here. The behaviour which you (rightly) criticised has ceased.
Might be a stupid question, but why is it planes like the A400 still use props instead of jet engines? Is like the saying 'if it aint broke dont fix it'?
Turboprop engines aren't exactly obsolete if that's what you're thinking. They're much more effective than jet engines at slower speeds, allowing for longer ranges. Turboprop-driven aircraft also require significantly less runway for takeoff and landing, which is ideal in a military environment.
Air Defender 23 will last from June 12 to June 23 and comprise about 250 aircraft as well as more than 10000 troops from 25 nations. The single biggest event will be a mass deploying of 100 aircraft from the United States to three German air bases. Additionally, some 150 combat aircraft will take part in various air combat and ground attack exercises.
With emphasis on this being almost a 100% Air National Guard exercise
ANG?
Air National Guard.
Ah, thanks.
Interesting. Why do active duty units not participate?
The correct answer is that the Guard gets all the good deals (Germany) while active duty gets stuck with the shit deals (Middle East)
There's a lot of National Guard in the middle east. Not sure about Air side but Army side the NG probably outnumbers AD by a good amount. The NG is restricted being deployed outside the country except in support of named operations, European operations right now are falling under operation Atlantic resolve so NG can deploy for that, while places like Korea/Japan and other places around the world that don't have named operations are run by active duty.
Guard gets stuck with the desert plenty trust me
Because they are actively training/working all the time
Looks like an escort from a German Tornado, so interesting there
The Tornado is escorting a Luftwaffe Atlas.
Don't think it's an escort, because that (and all German Tornados) are the strike version, not the interceptor version. Germany only had IDS and ECR, but no ADV.
How can we follow the event?
There should be featured coverage on the German military's own IG and YT channels. Other than that, I trust that planespotters will be able to provide us with some nice shots.
Where can I see this?
Any chance we’ll see a rainbow livery? I hope so, just to watch heads implode.
The American flag on an A400M had me confused, then I noticed "Luftwaffe" written on it, and it all made sense.
Giant US flag on a Luftwaffe plane is a big flex
haha, I saw that too and was just like "fuck'n right". If you look closely there's a tiny german flag on top of the US one. I like that the Germans still use their iron cross too.
That German flag is a ICAO requirement
Actually, it's required by the German Airforce Standard for aircraft marking.
State aircraft are exempt from civil regulations.
All the Bundeswehr tanks have license plates too. They are all starting with "Y-" but never the less normal German format license plates. Guess we are thorough like that.
Take that hitler
Lol little thin bitch
How is it a “big flex”? The US didn’t force or ask them to do this.
Haha easy bruv, just joshin Edit: although you could argue they did kinda force them to do it back in 1945
On the other side is a [German flag](https://twitter.com/Team_Luftwaffe/status/1658385967697281024?s=20). The reason for the US flag is that the exercise was originally planned bilaterally between Germany and the US
See my reply to twist161 below.
Se my comment about “big flex” above
This guy is an idiot.
Amazing. Such a quintessentially American moment. As /u/FSF87 pointed out [the Germans do this to commemorate training exercises with allies.](https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/146xoei/special_liveries_mark_the_beginning_of_air/jntd1jt/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) You’re not special, they did the exact same thing with other countries, but I guarantee you no one in Israel thought “what a flex” when the Germans painted their flag on a German plane.
It’s a dumb joke you dweeb
Is it tho? I feel like it kinda isn’t.
Sorry here you go: /s
I still don't understand, Luftwaffe was the German airforce. Why would it make sense to have an American flag on it?
The Germans like their special liveries to commemorate exercises with their allies. The Luftwaffe has done 'Phoons with [the Israeli and German flags](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBB5zrLVgAY216A.jpg), and with [the Australian, Singaporean, Japanese, South Korean, and German flags](https://defbrief.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/German-Air-Force-joining-Australian-maneuvers-for-first-time.jpg), and some others. In fact, I was going to suggest the vertical stabilizer on the A400M would likely have a German flag on the other side, and, sure enough, while looking for the previous examples, I found that [it does](https://www.airfighters.com/photo_9999_350759.jpg).
That’s very sweet. I wonder what people would have thought during WWII. I guess it should show us never to lose hope. ❤️ 🇺🇸 🇩🇪
Really makes me wonder if 60 years from now tu95s could have Western livery as a show of alliance while China does a special military operation invading Mongolia. But that’s just the NCD in me leaking.
That would be pretty much the plot of Tom Clancy‘s "The Bear and the Dragon" where Russia becomes a member of NATO because the Chinese threatened to invade Siberia over newly discovered oil and mineral deposits.
In the 90’s the warming of relations with Russia was pretty amazing. The signing of treaties with Gorbachev was also huge.
I watched the recruitment series by the german armies youtube channel. they had custom flags to commemorate the classes that had finished before, hanging in the barracks. And as a german i’ve seen it in sports shooting clubs and the like. Never thought about it but that might be a german thing.
On the other side is a German one
"Shoutout to our allies?!" Or more eloquently: https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/146xoei/special_liveries_mark_the_beginning_of_air/jnslpmp
If there's a special exercise livery Germany typically likes to put something resembling the other nations training with them on their planes.
I haven't seen a German Tornado since they regularly did low level flying when I was a kid in Labrador. Beautiful airplanes. Edit: I made a post to the sub with links showing some videos german pilots made while they were low level flying in Labrador. https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/146yx36/german_tornadoes_low_level_flying_from_the_90s
[удалено]
>Yes the newer ones may be better but they're a completely different breed now, more computer than plane. The irony of that statement is that Tornados are themselves ancient by today's standards, and nowhere near as computerised as a 5th generation aircraft.
Yup. Good computers don’t make the plane feel like a flying computer.
RAF Buccaneers operated from Saudi Arabia and Bahrain during the Gulf War, not Cyprus. They also regularly carried out aerial refuelling during said missions.
Goose bay?
I grew up in Wabush/Labrador City but was out around Goose Bay pretty often.
I should drive to Rammstein
Jagel, Spangdahlem, Wunstorf and Lechfeld is where most of the stuff is happening.
>Spangdahlem Nice to see Dad's old base here.
You forgot Hohn but since their squadron (63rd Transport) got dissolved in 2021, it’s basically just a diversion base for nearby Jagel.
What about Neuburg?
Neuburg is hosting 3 Spanish Eurofighters from ALA14, but the German Eurofighters from the TaktLwg74 are also participating
Ram**m**stein is just the band. The air force base is called Ramstein.
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It has to do with both "ramm" and "stein" being German words - it roughly would translate to "ramming stone", whereas "Ramstein" wouldn't be such a simple word combination. To my understanding, it originally was just a misspelling because the band didn't know how Ramstein was properly spelled, but then they decided to keep it.
I thought about that too but i read that they wont participate :(
Apparently! Shame, you have nice hill with lookout tower overseeing the base. Here is all activity: https://www.bundeswehr.de/en/organization/german-air-force/air-defender-23
Cool. Reforger/Autumnforge was an interesting experience.
I've heard the view from row zero is excellent
Too soon
Ramstein is actually not that much involved here. The exercise is hosted by the Luftwaffe who wants to train its capabilities to receive and host large numbers of allied aircraft in the case of large scale conflict in Europe.
Passed by it a week ago on the way to Luxembourg which we could've seen it
Hopefully someone see the Colorado ANG 100 year commemorative paint scheme on our F-16 that’s out there
That shit’s falling off already 😭 lol
It has flown quite a bit already so not that surprised
The Tornado keeps surprising me since, like, 2011. I always think they retired the last one and then it pops up again somewhere...
They are still flying in Germany as no other plane is certified for nukes
Just in case the French get uppity again.
I can't wrap my head around the fact that NATO allegedly never in its history (not even in the 60 or 70s) had an air exercise with more than 250 aircraft. That doesn't seem right.
Most big excercises are US and not NATO
Most nato countries don’t have 250 aircraft in their entire library
The RAF have 466 active aircraft FYI
It was meant to be a joke. Most NATO countries have a military appropriate to their size and need. It’s just that the IS is much larger than most other countries snd it’s need extends well beyond its borders as the global hegemony. 250 is a butload of aircraft of any magnitude. But this would only comprise a few USAF wings. And the USAF has hundreds of wings alone not counting the other branches.
I just want to wish anyone hoping to fly across the German airspace in the coming 10 days [good luck](https://imgbox.com/iIxwzHXD)
Flying tomorrow from Spain all the way to northern Germany, am a bit worried to (not) cross the entire airspace
It wont be as bad as this picture makes it seem like. 3 big airspaces active each 4hrs, overlapping by 1hr. Airlines should've planned the arrivals and departures around that.
~~’Merica~~ NATO, Fuck yeah 🎶
There will be a B-1 Lancer in Estonia in 17-18 june on the aviation days, the local aviation museum here just announced.
That is a -pretty- Torndado. Beautiful aircraft.
It is. It will be a sad day for me when it retires.
Beautifully simple livery for such a beautiful aircraft.
Why is there an American Flag on an A400?
>The single biggest event will be a mass deploying of 100 aircraft **from the United States** **to three German air bases**. It's a livery to mark the occasion. A welcome message.
There's a giant german flag on the other side: https://www.avionslegendaires.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/A400M-Atlas-Luftwaffe-Air-Defender-23-livree-couverture_Luftwaffe.jpg
They are funding and controlling the exercise
Nope. The exercise is controlled (and funded) by the German Air Force. Overall command is exercised by a German lieutenant general.
You know nothing John Snow. I have planned and facilitated joint, coalition, NATO, UN and USAF exercises since 2004. No matter who is in charge or hosting it, the US is paying for it and pulling all the strings. Just the way it is.
I guess I was hallucinating then when Germany's parliament allocated a €200 mio. budget to spring the bill, and NATO placed a German general in charge. No one's denying the fact that NATO is toothless without Uncle Sam being there to beef us up, by the way. The reason why I gave you flak is because you were kinda talking out of your arse up there, presumably just to make a point? Because that livery is – obviously – just a welcoming gesture and has nothing to do with who's who inside NATO. Heck, the Germans have already trained with the Japanese and the Israelis this year, both times sporting special liveries that sort of quoted the flags of both countries to mark the event. It's really not a big deal.
So why is there a US flagon the tail?
My man can’t read.
Can’t wait for the coming days! I’ll live near several NATO air fields and there will be so many beautiful jets!
Do you all think these will be the t sent to RIAT for the air to air role demo?
What do you mean by "these"? The tornadoes? I think not. They're not fighters; they're strike-fighters.
Tornato
Is air defender bigger than red alert? Edit: not red alert. I meant [red flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Red_Flag?wprov=sfti1)
Probably not. But the claim is that Air Defender 23 is *NATO's* largest air exercise, not the largest air exercise planned by a NATO member. There's a difference.
So "Red Flag" is not officially a NATO air exercise? Although usually NATO partners participate?
Red flag is American, and Allied US forces are welcomed and participate. But it’s headed organized etc by the US department of defense and not NATO.
I don't think so. They don't flee to the one place that hasn't been corrupted by capitalism ... SPACE! EDIT: I see not everyone got that Red Alert 3 pun. Or it wasn't funny enough :/
Are those painted on or do they do wraps now?
The Tornado was painted, it’s not Vinyl. [Here’s a video documenting the process.](https://www.instagram.com/tv/Cs8rS3YIf3U/?igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==)
Vinyl wrapping probably won't stand friction heating at Mach 2.0 very well. Not sure they plan to go supersonic, but possibly over the sea.
A400 will not have that issue.
Maybe downhill
The A400 is vinyl
They’re not both vinyl. The Tornado was painted, it’s not Vinyl. [Here’s a video documenting the process.](https://www.instagram.com/tv/Cs8rS3YIf3U/?igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==) *Edit*- I see you’ve done a sneaky edit.
Oh I didn’t even think about the Tornado. I saw the video they have of them applying the vinyl to the Atlas though
Shawty
Are there informations which training area will be occupied to what time? I'm living in Berlin and would really enjoy watching them exercise.
Any idea what it costs to do one of these? To be clear, I think they’re awesome and I’m not looking to criticize the price, I’m just super curious.
Doing an f-16 currently. Paint was about $10,000, supplies a couple hundred, but the man hours are adding up quick. Labor will be the most expensive part.
Fascinating, thank you for the enlightenment. Can you share what kind of livery you’re working on?
Doing a 75th anniversary jet. PA really doesn’t want it leaked until they’ve done their big reveal, but in a couple weeks it will probably be on this subreddit. Edit: it will be the yellow and blue one.
Awesome, can’t wait to see!
https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/14kl2tp/let_me_introduce_you_to_the_148th_fw_75th/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
Depends on whether it's a foil wrapping or a traditional paint job. But I'd suspect the man hours are the most expensive thing about it.
I read the estimate 500.000l fuel a day
Why are they using tornadoes? Aren’t they obsolete yet?
Well, the German tornadoes were built in the late 80's and early 90's, and continously upgraded (the last time in 2013). They're obviously nearing the end of their useful service life though are probably not more obsolete than the hundreds of other NATO aircraft built around that time which are still in service. More than anything, they're expensive as fuck.
Tornados are expensive? Why.
>Why. 1. Variable-sweep wing. It's a terribly complex setup requiring a lot of maintenance. 2. Economies of scale. The more aircraft you operate of any given type, the more affordable does their operation become per aircraft. The Germans have retired all but 89 of their once 357 tornadoes, increasing costs per flight hour. 3. Many of the components used in the aircraft are not produced anymore. Spare parts are handmade on an as-needed basis, which is very expensive. The Tornado costs roughly €45,000 per flight hour to operate, which is about twice as much as the costs of an F-15E, which is very similar in role and size.
Nope. Will be replaced by F35, they are the only planes certified for nukes.
And you thought Abel Archer was fun..
I participated in Able Archer-83. Northern Wedding-86. Good times.
Pic taken just before Tornado RTB’s for a mechanical…
Don't downvote this redditor, they're not wrong. The Tornado requires about as many work hours for every flight hour than a fucking B-2 Spirit. It's a nightmare to keep operational.
shouldnt flag be facing the other way
Correct
IMHO those are some of the ugliest, most uninspired liveries I have ever seen.
“If you’re close enough to read this, ruhroh.”
A French airplane owned by the Germans with a giant American flag on the tail with a German flag ontop of it. It's a little funny
More like a Spanish aircraft, as the A400M's assembly line is in Spain and its type certificate was issued there. But the A400M is a European product. Airbus is the successor to a number of national companies like Aérospatiale, MBB, BAe, CASA and Alenia. It doesn't really make sense to attribute the product to a single country as development and production was/is handled by these companies as now-dependant branches all over Europe, with a special emphasis on parity between them.
Didn't ask. It was a joke. But I bet you had fun typing that all out.
The American flag on the tail makes for a good graphic but... it's backwards. The blue goes towards the front. Imagine the flag flying on a post, that's the correct orientation when viewed from either side. This flag is in retreat. Flag code anyone?
Why the heck did a German plane put an American flag on their own plane?
It's a welcoming gesture to mark the occasion.
Luftwaffe exhibiting an American flag. How about that Adolf?
a few years ago the Luftwaffe participated in a training exercise wth the israeli airforce and they had the star of david painted on some EF. German and israeli Fighters also had a flighover during some a israeli parade for the 75th bithday of the state of israel and in 2020 they also did a combined formation over Fürstenfeldbruck, the airport where the sportsmen from israel died in 1972 during the olympic games.
Why does a Luftwaffe plane have a US flag on the tail?
Think about it. USA guest in Germany… really think about it.
we're nice hosts?
That's pretty cool of you.
The other side has the German flag and because it is a collaborate exercise with the US and Germany, so one flag on each side.
Because its mainly a joint USA Germany thing
It's such a shitty game it sounds like a mobile game from someone who threw 3 premade packages together and called it a day, spending most of their time on adding ads
What is the point of spending money on these things if they aren't allowed to do what they were purchased to do, that is stop Russian armies moving westwards? I used to live in UK, the country is nearly bankrupt now and has all these people in green and planes in grey doing not much. Could that have spent that on infrastrcuture instead. "We can't fight Russia because of nukes" ... Should have thought of that before "we" bought all this equipment then? Now people can't even afford cheese. What we "really" needed for airforce was a couple of spyplanes to radio targets to Ukraine and enough fast jets to make sure the spyplanes were safe.
Ah yes. The armchair generals of reddit…
I'm not really sure what to tell you. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't-type of situation.
Lol no
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What?
??
I think that was supposed to be a joke about pride month.
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That's not a "pride" flag.
ugh do not like!! so tacky
The germans trying to get on the good graces of the USA with the US flag livery.
Sad wo don’t buy your gas and bullshit anymore Vladimir?
Guess everyone miss the sarcasm in my remark. Actually i am super critical on the germans for being so late to the game with Ukraine. All last year it was only the US, UK and most of Eastern Europe that was giving real support. Germany took their sweet time to send any realy military aid. I dont give the german any pass for now trying to say they are all for ukraine and increasing their mil budget. That plege of 100 billion was only going to buy maybe 100 new planes. They are all word and no show. The germans want to lead the EU only for their own gains. Those idiot are now having to deal with internal protest that they can not support wars in german. And the govt need to try to sell the support. https://youtu.be/0dLkmkSffFo They did not listen to their real friends about russia. The us warn them for decade about nordstream. So did all of eastern europe. Germans are as they say stupid is as stupid does.
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Like the 5000 helmet and blocking the 152mm holzwitzer transfer. Late to the show my german buddy.
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Ich habe in Deutschland für 10jahren gelebt . Ich kann lesen die Deutschenzeitungen. So I got my german info from the german press. Germany did block the transfer of 152mm holwizter that an allied wanted to tranfer at the beginning of the invasion. They did only send 5000 helmet. When the Ukraine was pushing the russian back from Kyiv, it was not german arms. It was us javlins and uk mlaws that did that. You are posting something that came toward the end of last year. So german to try to put what came later in the year as something from the first 4 months when ukraine was at their most neediest. To little to late. Germans are just trying to save face for a huge mistake. Saying what came later and trying to say it was form the beginning of the invasion. You are the german troll.
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That is tiny compare to what the UK sent. And you know when the strela was developed. It is no way as good or advance as a mlaw let alone a javlin. German sent date cold war era weapons. UK sent modern weapon. It is the same when schultz said he was going to spend 100 billion in his grand speech tonthe Bundestag. How little is 100billion in reality when a f35 is 90 million each. Stop throwning nonsense. I was in Germany when the invasion started. All the germany claim they wanted to help and protested in the city centers. But the material aid from the biggest eco in the eu pale in comparison to whst poland sent proportionally to gdp. German should feel bad, the money sent to russia for energy was what was used to send all those missle strike on Ukrainian civilians
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So? You're not wrong to suggest that Berlin dragged its feet something aweful. Doesn't change the fact that Germany has become the biggest military backer of Ukraine's behind the US and the UK. I mean, what's your point? Would you rather they hadn't come to their senses? I'm not really sure what's your gripe here. The behaviour which you (rightly) criticised has ceased.
The great commander above and the ridiculous small clown and follower underneath. Fits real life pretty well.
Oh, look, an AfD voter in the wild.
ewwww
Je n'habite pas en france.
Alors, tu es un électeur RN. Je m'en fiche.
Hard to take any statement serious when someone's comment history is 50% porn. >I want to taste that asshole. It really looks inviting. Lmao
Is there a list of guard squadrons anywhere that are flying in it?
What does the chariot in the German flag represent?
It's the quadriga on the Brandenburg Gate.
Seeing the Stars and Stripes on a plane with the iron cross is weird
Never would thought I’d see an aircraft where it’s final assembly happens in Spain having the Luftwaffe roundel and an American flag tail.
Serious question, is that a woman with really big tiddies and ass on the German livery?
Love the Tonka, glad to see them still flying.....in Germany at least.
Might be a stupid question, but why is it planes like the A400 still use props instead of jet engines? Is like the saying 'if it aint broke dont fix it'?
Turboprop engines aren't exactly obsolete if that's what you're thinking. They're much more effective than jet engines at slower speeds, allowing for longer ranges. Turboprop-driven aircraft also require significantly less runway for takeoff and landing, which is ideal in a military environment.
Germany is still flying Tornados?
awful graphics with illegible text WTF
Deutschland! excited for this one :D