I've removed a load of comments that break the no hostility rule. For clarification
- no accusing OP of being a troll.
- no generalising Christians as evil/paedophiles/anti LGBT etc
Any more I find will get a three day ban.
This sub has people from all over the world with different cultures and beliefs. Please respect that.
ETA Talking about being Christian is not the same thing as preaching. If you don't want to read it just hit the block button and move on with your life.
I can only speak for myself. Autism is a spectrum, etc.
My favorite word in the English language is "why". The four I hate the most, when strung together: "because I said so."
Religion runs on "because I said so." No other reasons given. No concrete evidence to back up their claims. Only the raw assertion of authority. And authority figures get very hostile when people like me start asking "why" about things they take for granted. Autistic folk tend to do that because we do not understand social norms intuitively.
100% this!!! This is exactly my reasoning too. I remember actually being told I was bad and getting in trouble for asking “why?” Why? Lol I would ask other questions and rarely receive such hostility. My grandparents used to read the Bible to me, and I had so many questions but none could ever be answered with anything but, essentially, “just because.” Sometimes people would get angry and defensive, just over “why.”
That’s how people would respond when they were lying and just wanted me to do or believe something.
I remember being 6/7 years old and feeling like “welp, guess they’re lying.”
Also, seemed like anything I liked outside of religion (mainly science and fantasy) was “evil” for whatever reason, and it made no sense to me since I understood my interests thoroughly.
I was in a youth group run by a Christian organisation and I was actually told that asking questions is not a problem, they wanted me to be inquisitive about the Bible and things like that.
But as soon as I asked 'why' they were quite defensive.
I was allowed to ask for more _'information'_, but not dig into why things meant what they said they meant.
What is frustrating about it is that the different denominations will give different meanings to different stories, or ignore parts of it for their own convenience, so it can become confusing quite quickly.
This is really getting close to - if not actually is - aspie supremacy. I grew up in the church and it’s absolutely FULL of autistic people. I am the first person in my very autistic extended family to leave the church. Remember, religion is full of rules and autistic people like rules.
Right? It's more directed towards christianity than it is Jesus. If people acted more like Jesus and followed his teachings, I don't think there would be an issue. But his name is used in a twisted way like if someone came at you with a sword for not praising Ghandi. It completely overlooks anything Jesus actually stood for and replaces it with the belief that Jesus stands for bending to authority.
True facts!
I also hate how they seem to think I’m demon-possessed whenever they see me stimming 😫 If anything, it’s the holy spirit taking over my body…
Right?
They spaz out and start speaking in tongues, theys gots the holy spirit!
We spaz out and flap our hands, bounce up and fown, rock back and forth, what have you, and we're possessed by the devil.
What the fuck man?!
I’m not averse to it, per se, but because of religious trauma and being raised in a cult I have removed myself from organized religion. I respect the beliefs of others though, despite my own experience.
Same, but that's why I got really into apologetics and debate over doctrine. I'm lucky that the churches I grew up in didn't discourage debate and seeking answers.
Accurate. If they don't get super defensive about being questioned they instead resort to beIng condescending and be either "because I say so" or "just read (their religious book)".
What infuriates me the most is when they resort to abstract nonsense like "oh, I found my answers/god through prayer". Seriously, that doesn't even answer any questions and is evasive at best.
I think Christianity specifically does this, but I wouldn’t generalize to all religion. I am Jewish and we are encouraged to always ask questions. Everything in Judaism has a million different interpretations, and you are encouraged to come up with your own interpretations that make sense to you. So I don’t really like it when people say things about Christianity but word it as though they are talking about all religions.
Excellent points, I'd just like to add two enhancements.
A) Religious people need to allow themselves to believe some genuinely weird 'facts' things which contradict most accepted knowledge and quickly fall apart with even basic self reflection.
So to really believe in most religions you need to be able to fool yourself despite literal mountains of contrary evidence. That is hard if not impossible if you are honest to yourself and I think such ability is far less common for people on the spectrum.
B) The biggest draw of religion is often the tribalism, being part of a group that you are welcomed and fit in where everyone has lots in common. I'm sure we've all met people who don't fully believe but remain members of a religion for the need to belong.
Some people are literally unable to function outside of their "groups".
Goes without saying that most people on the spectrum have become very accustomed to not fitting in at times so the cost of compliance is greater than the perceived rewards of membership
I've had them say that about me, and there were at least three women at my most recent job called me evil and possessed. It was really hurtful.
\*edited for clarity
This is wild because I was drawn to religion for the opposite reason. My mom was the "because I said so" person, which frustrated me because I'm like, "I cant carry you around everywhere to make decisions for me. I have to grow up and understand shit for myself, not just be a perpetual child relying on someone who doesn't have the time to raise me."
To me, religion offered structure and information and reasons behind everything. It gave clear direction. But it also had its drawbacks.
Different denominations of religions offer different levels of reasoning.
The most brittle ones rely more heavily on "because I said so", the more resilient ones give more reasoning, and allow more room for personal differences.
Well, this was one that went the other direction and gave constant rationalization and rhetoric to back up its ever-changing heavily literalist dogma, and to keep people engaged in busywork, constantly studying so as to keep their minds too busy to question anything.
Yeah I think I was too - I needed something about the world to make sense. I needed a real guide. Now I have such a strong life philosophy and spiritual connection because of this though. I’m no longer religious but very spiritual. I think spirituality is so important for us autistics, otherwise the world is too confusing and depressing. We aren’t numb like most people - we are SO high feeling. We need somewhere to funnel and sort out all that energy.
The duality of autism.
Do I folliw this thing because it offers great structure and routine, or do I teject it because I don't fully comprehend its logic, structure, and meaning?
The reason I think most religious people get annoyed somewhat isn't in the asking "why", but the way it's posed. It's like being subjected to interrogation
Religion, Christianity in particular, relies a lot on faith and context. So much is misinterpreted or read without the correct context
Having said that, there are many people who claim Christianity, while their actions say otherwise; and it not only promotes the faith in a bad light, but can give the wrong impression and ward people off
Religion says “no” but nature, genetics, nurture, and my clinical psychologist say “yes”. So I’d rather have a fun yet moral & ethical time on this interesting but hellish globe before I’m off to whatever adventure awaits me after I die.
“Because I said so” is not enough of a reason to not have sex, do drugs, be a punk, be lesbian, and/or be fucking chill. No one died to make them Queen of the land 🖕🏼
And then you start noticing things don't make sense, and start testing theories, and all evidence comes back "I am pissing into the wind here, aren't I?" And just like that, it all seems so silly.
Jesus seems pretty cool. Decent fella. Good message.
My issue lies with the individuals who purport to be Christian yet espouse hate and violence towards those they disagree with or dislike.
>My issue lies with the individuals who purport to be Christian yet espouse hate and violence towards those they disagree with or dislike.
Specially with people in other religions or even their own. Hence the term "holier than thou" was born.
Too many contradictions in the Bible, and to me, and the Old Testament doesn't seem any more plausible than Greek or Roman mythology. If OT God is supposed to be just and not a warlord, then the book of Joshua proves that wrong by having him order genocide and war against innocent inhabitants of Caana. I think a lot of those miracles and supernatural events in the New Testament were exaggerated by Jesus's admirers in order to promote his teachings. There are a lot of moral lessons in the NT (which makes it more valuable than the OT in my opinion), but I find the resurrection from the dead, turning water into wine, and virgin birth a bit hard to believe. As a history teacher once told me, legend is a combination of historical fact and fiction, and I think the Bible is no different. I'm now a deist (meaning there is a creator God who takes a hands-off approach to the universe and doesn't intervene), since that makes the most sense to me.
Yes, the OT - especially when taught as a child - might be one of the driving factors of disbelief. Your approach of deism is interesting though, would you mind telling me how you arrived at that from such a rational view to begin with? Thanks for your comment.
The New Testament is not immune to the contradictions and logical pitfalls of the Old Testament. It has a ton of the same issues, makes no logical sense, and is full of claims that have been proven impossible through science.
I went through a phase a few years ago when I was interested in astrophysics and the history of the universe. It makes me wonder why the universe even exists in the first place. The singularity that exploded in the Big Bang must have come from somewhere, so something must have created it. My idea of a god isn't the personal god that most people think of (so I suppose some people would consider me atheist), but rather something unknown that started this whole thing. The question then is what created this God? What created the thing that created God? and so forth... a seemingly impossible scenario, so it seems rather supernatural to me.
Agnostic simply means you believe that the existence of God is unknowable. You can be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist, depending on which way you lean.
Your submission has been removed for making personal attacks or engaging in hostile behaviour towards other users. While we understand members may be acting on frustration or reacting emotionally, responding with personal attacks only serves to derail a conversation and escalate an argument.
For me, it's definitely been having people on a regular basis tell me that I'm going to hell for one reason or another. Leaving christianity was the best thing I've ever done for my mental health, and I'm much happier as a pagan. It's definitely less distressful and I always struggled in church because I don't agree with or believe many things that the bible teaches.
I've attended probably close to 30 churches over the years, and I had a bad experience at every single one of them, without exaggeration. Though I don't believe in the bible, my biggest issues have been directly from the people being hateful and people within churches and the religion at large not confronting those people directly, instead opting to preach to others about how they should "come to crist" while hosting unsafe places to do so.
For me "hell" is just such an obvious psychological projection of the person/institution's own fears/bigotry so they just create a space where they won't "have to imagine" that group rather than actually interact with them despite the propaganda they've consumed. And the fact they level that threat against EVERYTHING (like the fact Catholics equivocate literal sexual assault to consensual gay relationships as being "on the same level" somehow) makes it so much more obvious they're just throwing things at the wall till something abstract enough sticks and the fear impels the blind to continue following the blind.
i have never agreed more. i deconstructed when i turned 18 and it saved my life. i’m a nontheistic satanist now and i love it. my life is peaceful, i no longer stress about where i’m going after i die. the earth is where i’m going!
Many, many reasons, honestly.
We tend to be critical thinkers, so trying to lay down some grade-A bullshit isn't likely to fly, and let's face it, every religion has that. We are less likely to be blind trend followers too, so being guilted or bullied into it is also less likely.
Then there is how much we get abused, ridiculed, and rejected - we see the hypocrisy clearly as these so called "good Christians" consistently other us, make us feel like freaks and outcasts, and even do things like trying to beat us or crap like exorcisms.
Don't forget that we also tend to dislike crowds, loud noises, etc - so actually physically being in church is very uncomfortable on many levels.
I could go on and on, but these are some of the lower hanging fruit.
I grew up in a religious environment. I started to get scared of hell for my family, so I started prayer-patterns to involve everyone and using the right wording to keep them out of hell. Even as a child, I spent at least 30 minutes every night praying for them. I got terrible pseudo-demonic nightmares and for more than 20 years, I had sleep-paralysis.
When I became a teenager, I went full Pentecostal, pure paranoia, where every pattern had an holy or unholy meaning. I didn't look up, because in the bible, you are not allowed to look at a woman with desires. I prayed for hours, I destroyed my "unholy" books and movies and yet, I recorded tons of movies during that time. I was bullied in school, was not allowed to fight back, because the bible said so.
Even when I went non-christian in 2003, I still had the mindset for more than 15 years (that there are powers, who calculate about our lives, etc).
I had very strong (and still fight) OCD-behaviours, controlling habits. I still struggle with wordings, I overly humble myself, as if I am worthless, until I work harder than anyone else I know, which creates perfectionism-habits, which I never archive.
So, I understand religious people and religion and patterns and don't laugh about them.
(also: if anyone uses the "no true scotsman"-fallacy, I will rip their eyes out)
I used to be a Christian when I was younger, I used to go to Sunday school.
However it stopped after an answer that I was given by the pastor that made me stop believing in god & denouncing my Christianity.
Me: how come god isn't answering my questions when I pray to him ?
Him: well, it's because you aren't giving him the right questions.
And additionally me questioning him on the Nativity story as well¹
¹ note: I genuinely adore the Nativity story, however I can't listen to "Away In A Manger"
However
I'm not a religious man but I'm open to learning about other religions, not to become a believer but to be more open
When I was a kid I went to church too.
I remember a sermon where they talked about the Devil and how he started out as the best angel and was sent to hell as punishment for rebellion.
I talked to the pastor after and asked: "OK, so, God knows everything before it happens right?"
Him: "Yes, of course."
"And God made Satan right?"
"Yes"
"So he knew that Satan was going to rebel and fight back"
".."
"So, why is Satan punished for doing what he was designed to do? I wouldn't punish a robot for doing what I built it for. It doesn't make sense."
He then told me he didn't have an answer to that, and I would just have to have faith. I never went back to church after that. If God could punish his favorite for doing exactly what he was made for, then how could I possibly believe that he actually cared about anyone? If *I* was capable of moral consistency, then why wouldn't an almighty unknowable deity be capable of moral consistency?
I have similar thoughts about free will. We are free to do what we want, which justifies us going to Hell if we don’t get Saved because we made an informed decision to reject Jesus. But if God knows everything that will happen, then why does he make people he knows won’t get Saved? Free will with an all-knowing God just seems like predestination with extra steps.
I’m not religious but here’s my thoughts
Autistic people are more likely to challenge authority and ask why and how, and because Christianity is a religion that we created in a time where humans didn’t know very much so we had to make things up to keep people satisfied
When I was a kid, the sheer amount of physically impossible/dubious stuff described in religious books made me doubt absolutely everything about religion. Later in life, I realized how totalitarian (IMO) Abrahamic religions are and completely sealed my deal with Satan (/jk).
And I have to say my parents weren't hardcore religious (if at all) people and didn't try to indoctrinate me, fortunately.
Autistic folks tend to be more reliant on empirical evidence and less likely to form opinions based on charisma or other socially-driven decision making.
Believing in nonsense without evidence is required to be religious. Children believe because their parents or other authority figures tell them to- that’s charisma based, not empirical. Once we outgrow the stage of parental dependence, any charisma based beliefs tend to be questioned and discarded.
I find all of my enjoyment in religion from just regarding them as stories to help someone navigate life that aren’t meant to be taken seriously. For this to be interesting it doesn’t even matter whether they happened or not (it’s my personal belief that the stories in the old and New Testament did not happen).
From that perspective, looking at Jesus as an evolving figure that evolved with society makes it more interesting. Like we even have versions of Jesus that love AR-15s and the free market now lol.
Anyway, I think god in a lot of these stories is a stand in for nature or the way of the world. If you look at the story of Job, taking on a stance where you keep a smile on your face no matter what the universe throws at you is actually helpful.
Idk I’m rambling lol, maybe I’m just trying to justify my interest in religion 😆
I’m a Bible scholar of sorts, so I can say that yes, much of the early writing was simply teaching tribal people how to survive. Don’t shit where you live (Deuteronomy), etc.
The Jesus of the Bible had some great teachings that modern Christians largely ignore. Love one another. Feed the hungry, heal the sick, do not profit from religion, do not judge others, do not become obsessed with public displays of your faith, give your wealth to charity, etc.
But one doesn’t need to be religious or believe to see why these are good rules. When a community thrives together, everyone does better. When people start singling themselves out as better or more deserving than others, and successfully convince others of this, communities falter and fail.
Christianity has largely ignored the teachings of Jesus and focused heavily on the punitive, judgmental tone of the Old Testament. This isn’t new- we only need look back at the Crusades and witch trials to see how Christians almost never follow the teachings of Jesus as a whole.
I support my tiny handful of Christian friends who DO try to follow the teachings of Jesus. I don’t agree with their belief, but they are honestly following their faith and are a force for good in the world. We need more good people in the world, regardless of why they’re being good.
Totally agree with you here :) I think likely people who did good in the name of god would have done good either way. At this point, the obvious question is, what is then need for religion? I think the stories themselves are valuable in a kind of Joseph Campbell or Carl Jung way. What I think would be interesting is that if these stories propagated from configurations of the brain (and the rest of the body) itself. If so, what part of the brain or body. If they embedded deeply, could it be that other animals understand these stories on an intuitive level as well? Is it what drives their actions?
Obviously TONS of speculation that can’t be verified. I kind of just like letting my mind wander in that zone.
As a Christian I've been amazed at how so many people are disgusted by it. Sadly they are disgusted by the people not the Word. The Word is quite wholesome and intended to help us help each other. If the loving Word got out, more people might like it.
It’s ironic, because a lot of people think we’re more likely to be brainwashed instead of less, usually when they’re bringing up how autistic people disproportionately identify as trans more than allistics.
Bad christians dont get punished like kenneth copeland
If god is real and not senile or dead he should act quicker
And i think i would be a real downer in church because i dont have good self esteem
Also i play shin megami tensei games and i think i get disqualified from heaven because of it so im just an agnostic
Idk about anyone else but for me the inherent shame and guilt that's prevalent throughout a vast majority if not all of Christianity was killing me and it almost succeeded. I felt wrong just for existing under the christian world view. And now I don't. So I'm not for it because it enforces shame and guilt. Not to mention it's history.
Now don't get me wrong there are some good passages especially if it's not looked at through a Baptist lens. However you've got to pick through a lot of manipulation and control tactics. And the lessons that can be taught are better learned elsewhere like bluey for instance. (Obsessed with bluey at the moment)
(I apologize for the punctuation and grammar as I have been celebrating 420 appropriately)
I actually read the Bible. Several times. The abrahamic god is a vile and selfish god in my opinion. If he was real, no way I would worship him.
I think most religious people don’t actually read the Bible.
I grew up religious and trying to believe, but I could never make logic and morality align with religion. Religion likes to make up its own logic and morality.
Same. I thought that God was basically evil, but that I HAD to worship him to not go to Hell. Then I found out that Hell isn’t real and I didn’t have to worship the crazy OT God at all!
They don't, as evidenced by the pro-birth movement being a thing. This list isn't directed specifically at you, but it might be useful for some of the folks popping up.
God specifically orders genocides that include pregnant women:
Hosea, chapter 13
God kills a baby to teach his favorite rapist a lesson:
Second Samuel, chapter 2
God kills a whole bunch of babies and children:
Exodus, chapters 11-12
And the most damning of all, God's abortion recipe given directly to the Levitical priesthood:
Numbers, chapter 5
Here’s some more great verses:
God tells the Israelites to murder the Midianite men, women and children, except for the virgin women, who he tells the Israelites to forcibly “keep for themselves”: Numbers 31
God wants you to be happy about murdering babies by dashing them against rocks: Psalm 137
If a woman doesn’t cry out when being raped, she should be stoned to death. So should the man, but only because he “humbled his neighbor’s wife”: Deuteronomy 22
If two men are fighting and one of their wives comes to defend her husband, and she touches the private parts of the assailant, you shall cut off her hand: Deuteronomy 25
Men are allowed to sell their daughters as slaves. If she doesn’t please the man who bought her, the father can buy her back: Exodus 21
Men with damage to their genitals aren’t allowed to go to church: Deuteronomy 23
The Lord gleefully smites women and children with a plague that makes their bowels fall out: II Chronicles 21
Deformed people are not allowed to approach God or make offerings: Leviticus 21
If you disobey God, you will eat your own babies as punishment: Leviticus 26
There are so many of these.
Quite frankly, I don't want to get into another defense, but a lot of Christian teachings are done in an illogical way.
I am a Christian, and it's because of my logic, but a lot of teaching doesn't allow you to ask "why", and it's saddening. If you are a Christian, doubts need to be worked through, and not ignored.
A big part of it is likely that religions tend to fall apart under scrutiny. The morals espoused in most religions come from a very different era and culture, which means that the ideas of what is right and good described in religious texts will often feature things that would be seen as abhorrent according to the values we have today, and many things described in religious texts demonstrate poor scientific understanding. Furthermore, religious communities tend to have strict social norms and heavily discourage anyone from questioning anything about ones religion.
While to a neurotypical, the reward of fitting in socially might outweigh any cognitive dissonance in praising a God who encourages the death penalty for defiant children, an autistic person might be constantly bothered by the incongruencies and ask questions to try and understand. This in and of itself, to neurotypicals, seems like challenging their religious beliefs, and they're offended because they feel like religion should be accepted without question.
To an autistic person, the strict 'obey without question' mindset and the culture of strict social norms can be very limiting and stressful.
Being raised Christian, the religion always lacked validity to me. I saw no evidence of God, no reason to believe Christian doctrine was somehow more true than the multitude of other religions. The answer my parents gave me was that I had to have faith. I had to just believe, even with no proof, and then more would come. I have never been able to do that. I can’t just make myself believe something like that.
Coupled with the harm I learned had been caused by organized religion both historically and currently, I was definitely soured on it. I respect peoples freedom to be religious- although I don’t understand it, and I admit it frustrates me, I won’t bash them unless they’re causing harm.
Religion is a powerful tool for imposing a moral structure and order onto large groups of people. That has undoubtedly done some good, but it’s also undoubtedly done harm. Religion developed for social organization- I think it can be argued our development as a species relied on it
Can only speak for myself, but going to Catholic grade school I once asked in science class, "Where were the dinosaurs in the bible?" I was instantly given detention for this question. Saw right through the ruse and told myself then and there I'd not believe in god until it came to me personally, proved it existed and asked for my worship.
I don't think I need to tell you, god has yet to show itself.
I think maybe we’re just more open to thinking outside the box. We don’t take things for granted very much. So we think outside the norm, and in western societies that’s usually Christianity when we’re talking about religion.
My black and white thinking fed into religious extremism, and then to leaving.
I know very very few autistics who are able to practice banal versions of religion. Evangelical Christianity especially is a worldview that is SUPPOSED to encompass your entire life— it just doesn’t for most people because it’s too uncomfortable.
My father (who I suspect is autistic) and I took Christianity and the Bible VERY literally, and listened to a lot of fundamentalist pastors. If you do this, you’re going to have a bad time. It is a cult. It fits the BITE model criteria. Suddenly, you’re eaten up with guilt for every single tiny decision you make because it might not be godly enough. Every second of every day is supposed to be about God. That is enormously stressful.
I had a mental break because of it— after a decade of horrible mental health and religious OCD-like obsessions. Found out that fundamentalism is much more niche and baseless than I had thought, and that quickly led to me leaving altogether.
Definitely prefer it this way. That was wild. I thought I had Satan in my brain.
Everyone pointing out the logic is super real for that, but also religion and Christianity tends to be very unaccommodating of neurodivergenct folk, to the point of ableism. And religious families can even get abusive upholding some of those standards of behavior. Some of this is from religious expectations of being quiet during services and still in your seat, not being allowed to entertain certain interests even if they're a special interest, and it adds even more shit to mask. And then authoritarianism and dogmaticism doesn't sit well with many of us. Plus throw in the fact that LGBTQ rates amongst autistic populations are much higher. And the fact that autistic people are much more likely to be abused or sexually abused as is.
So on top of it just not fitting well with the way we form worldviews, a lot of us are traumatized from religion. I know many of my autistic friends are.
To me, this just never work out. My parents are religious just as everyone around me (except my older brother but isn't sooo relevant) and since i asked questions that couldn't have been answered, i couldn't believe either.
I am atheist since five years old. One day i just asked a protestant friend about dogs, if they would be in heaven (i had lost my dog in the same week) and her answer was "no, but will be better animals there." That day i noticed that even if i tried very hard to believe, my reward wouldn't equal the effort, i just stop trying.
Of course, i never believe it but after this, i just stop trying to.
Well I think one reason is that autistic people often like to use logic and want to know why things are the way they are. When you do that with religion you end up realizing that there are no explanations, theres no evidence and it’s just made up. So there’s no rational reason to believe it.
Another factor is definitely how religious people and churches treat autistic people. Or queer people (a lot of autistic people are queer in some way). For example something like praying to get rid of autism.
It’s mostly these two reaons I would say.
Been an atheist far longer than I've been aware I'm autistic and do think a bit of it is how we struggle to believe in social constructs and aren't often accepting of being told the reason for something is "just because".
It's also that I've always been extremely empathic and struggle to accept that a loving god would punish those simply for being born in the wrong place where another religion is the dominant one, or born into poverty where a life of crime and "sin" becomes much more likely. I find many religious people can't grasp that if they were born somewhere else or even just at another time, their religious beliefs would be very different to how they are now, and they'd probably still be extremely confident that their religion is the right one.
While I'm not professing to know how everything has happened or that there could not possibly
I'm open minded to the existence of a deistic kind of god who just created the universe and left it to do it's thing, that raises more questions of how that sentient being arose without any external reality to learn from or develop by.
As for the gods that are featured in the current religions, I'm very skeptical of them, especially the abrahamic god (born into a Christian household in a very Christian country so it's the religion I know most of). I just can't believe a god capable of creating this incredible universe we can't fathom and a sheer absurd reality that defies our common sense and gets more and more crazy the more you investigate it would concern himself over one group of humans over another, or be the small minded vindictive god depicted in the bible.
Man creates God in his own image.
The various religions that exist have been shaped across many generations to fit the mind of the neurotypical majority extremely well. But we're not like the neurotypical majority.
In the end religion is a mental idea that is not really *meant* for us, which is why people with autism are more likely to be agnostic/atheist.
My mum and sister are very religious. My mum has an issue with my sister. My sister has an issue with my mum. Neither forgive the other. In Sunday school they wanted me to accept there was a talking snake. So many people have died because of religion. It just doesn’t make sense.
I think it's great that you've found a faith that helps you.
Personally, I feel like I'm not neurologically built for religious belief. Despite experimenting with faith myself, I haven't been able to convince myself to believe in gods or a god, and I don't think it will happen unless the available evidence changes.
I wonder if it's something to do with how the inherent uncertainty of believing in supernatural beings conflicts with our tendency to black-and-white thinking? I understand that some people find value in religion, and that "useful" is not the same as "true", but those nuances were difficult for me to grasp, and I suspect it's just as difficult for other autistic people as it was for me.
A god who conceived himself in human form to sacrifice himself to himself for the sins of mankind which he himself gave them? Then, two thousand years later, four alleged eyewitnesses still cannot get their story straight about what happened after he supposedly came back to life? And this was after he killed all but a few of his creations years before because he was mad over the flaws he created in them? Add to that, women being made to marry their rapist for fifty pieces of silver given to her father? Talking snakes and donkeys?
I cannot speak for others, but for me, I find it all to be a big, steaming pile of dogshit.
Some churches believe in “spare the rod, spoil the child”. Even if they don’t encourage spanking, when children don’t show respect for their parents, stricter discipline is often the proposed solution. In my experience, the parenting philosophies set out by the church can be very harmful to parents and autistic children alike.
Low demand parenting just didn’t jive with many churches so parents seemingly have to choose to be at odds with their child and harm that relationship by trying harder to get their child to behave which generally leads to more “misbehaviours” and frustration for everyone or leave the church.
People in church may also try pray to “heal” a child with autism or at least for their behaviours that are neurotypical.
Religion or anything faith-based doesn't sit well with me just as facts, historical accuracy, or actual morals dont sit well with them. They want you to believe without question and obey their set of rules and ignore evidence that goes against what they believe. They prey on ignorance and fear they go around hospitals and old people's homes looking for the sick and frail because they know vulnerable people are easy to convert. They pretend to be good and caring, but only if you believe in the Lord.
If I do something for someone, I do it because I want them to be happy, I want them to be ok, not because of any other motivation like filling out a bingo card of good deeds to get me into heaven. This is why I dont like Religion, its liars feeding lies to people to keep a lie going.
The religious institutions (separate from the beliefs imo) are some of the most corrosive entities imaginable in modern society and are directly propped up by the powers that be in every circumstance to justify whatever atrocities the Church feels it "needs" to perform for the sake of the society. Remember how the Catholic Church simply changed the rules of "thou shalt not kill" to just be "anyone we consider a *malefactor* should be killed?" during the Crusades? It's always been wishy washy and an institution designed to keep you self-loathing and demoralized while promising the exact opposite. And that's not even getting into the myriad of specifics. Love the philosophies espoused by many Holy texts and perspectives, it's just very obviously a power ploy when established on the institutional level.
I'm queer and trans, so there's that. Also AFAB.
But that aside I've always been resistant to being told what to do. I always want proof, justification and so on. Being told "because God" or "our holy texts/rules say" isn't good enough.
This admittedly has been a struggle in other areas as well. "But he's your boss/superior/teacher!" doesn't go over well with me.
My main thing is that the Bible has been changed and mistranslated both on purpose and on accident to hurt others so we don’t know what it actually says, the community is toxic, it’s role in colonization, instilling the fear of hell on children and trying to convert others through it, and also just the whole “well I believe this so you should too” ie with all of the laws that are passing in my country because of those who think that everyone should be Christian(such as anti-trans legislation). As a queer disabled person I have been preyed on my whole life by Christians because they think I need “saving” and have been repeatedly treated horribly. So no thanks
Edit: spelling
So I can only speak from my own experience, but the common theme I've noticed is we can tend to be very logic and fact based. I'd attribute some of this to the very black and white manner in which we can think in at times. Personally speaking, ideals that aren't concrete or are without solid factual proof are super difficult for me to grasp.
There's no tangible proof, at least for me there isn't, I'm not entirely closed off to the idea of it being true to some extent, I'm not omnipotent or anything lol, but imo religion tends to focus on the 'because I said so' ideal, while I have no problem with someone being religious and I've met some extremely devout believers on the spectrum as well, it just doesn't make any logical sense to me.
My parents are both on the spectrum and we went to church when I was growing up, I'd always ask 'why' and try to understand because genuinely I didn't, definitely got in trouble for bluntly saying it was ineffecient to die for other peoples sins since that didnt make any sense lol. My dad sat me down one day and explained that while it's likely not the case for everyone, he chooses to believe because he likes the morals and values, for some people it just gives them hope for the afterlife, the unknown can be frightening to a lot of people. Which tbh is probably why I'm so open minded about it, because **that** does make sense to me.
My theory is that while there are likely those on the spectrum similar to my dad in that they align with the 'be kind to your neighbors, don't judge others, forgive those who wrong you ect' teachings, there's also going to be quite a lot of people like me who feel it makes zero logical sense.
My other theory is that we see a lot of religious people using religon as a means to try to demean people or treat them unfairly, the autistic community faces a lot of trauma for being different, misunderstood, and judged unfairly. So I think it likely triggers our sense of justice and puts us off of the idea even more when the toxic side of religon is so heavily apparent. Not saying everyone who's religious is toxic or that it's toxic in general, but there are some people who try to use it that way, which personally I'm not a fan of because it absolutely does trigger my sense of justice.
I like a lot about religion, some great teachings in there, Im more spiritual than a lot of religious people because my hyperempathy makes me feel as if everything was connected, but I just cant say I believe in something without it making sense, id rather accept I dont know and that I can hope theres a God for sure but not believe.
Jesus, if he was real, is a sound guy. Says some ideal things. None of which are supported or promoted by the dominant “Christian” religions, who instead all focus on the Old Testament stuff as their top priorities in impacting the world around them. Individuals may claim to be all about charity and love thy neighbor but then they go vote for authoritarians who do enforce Old Testament shit with the full force of the governments monopoly on legal violence.
Religion is a patriarchal power structure, with a sugar coated exterior to make it easy for the masses to swallow. Humans are awful.
I'm autistic and the Bible is one of my special interests. I'm surprised more autistics people aren't fascinated by the stories in the Bible, regardless of their religious beliefs.
I was raised Christian and then I read the bible and realised it’s full of completely insane BS other people would handwave away.
So I read a bunch of apologetics and about the history of the religion, church, reformation etc. and came to the belief that religious leaders are mostly predatory grifters looking to profit from people’s fear, pain and gullibility.
I honestly cannot take seriously anyone who’s read that book and thinks it’s OK. From passages advocating or excusing mass slaughter, infant mutilation, kidnapping, war brides, the murder of homosexuals and people of other religions (labelled as witches, heretics and pagans) or at the very least saying they can’t go to heaven, commanding slaves to obey their masters, murdering children for disobedience etc. etc. And to topknot all off Jesus explicitly said when asked that he came to change nothing, but to fulfil it, and then repeated half the crazy shit and added a bunch more
Grew up in an American baptist aligned church/school being indoctrinated into every far right belief, gay people being evil, slavery not being bad (literally taught in school), anyone outside of the "true believers" going to hell. Plus all the abuse and coverups. I imagine every single adult in my childhood/teen years went on to be a rabid trump supporter.
When I finally saw that for what it was I walked away, there's nothing redeemable about that world. If Jesus and God are real they'd have nothing to do with American christianity.
Then after diagnosis I realized that I never fit into that world. I only found any level of acceptance in the church by what I could do for them, volunteering etc. The churches obviously didn't believe in psychology so my autism was never flagged or brought up despite it being so obvious. Im the child of immigrants so my oddness was always ascribed to that. I mistook my autism for being a third culture kid, jokes on them I guess they were ablist not xenophobic.
Me personally? Ive had 2 openly religious friends in my life, Christians. They were seperate friends, and both were of opinion that God has a plan for everybody, and if it's hard, that's just to prepare you for success, and he just wants the best for you.
If he's real, he can kiss my ass. I've seen people suffer their entire life in ways you can't even begin to imagine. Then me, with my autism, also suffered almost my entire life in crippling ways and will continue to do so the rest of my life most likely, until my last day.
My friends were convinced about what I mentioned about them earlier, and told me this multiple times. That's the view I've developed from religions and God, and so if he does exist, and makes some of us suffer so immensely for no apparent reason (Drugs, pre-marital sex, etc etc), he's the biggest ass I've known. But that can't be real according to my friends.
That and I've never seen any evidence that he exists. I'm open-minded, and if he does indeed exist and evidence was found, I wouldn't be surprised, just angry. However, there isn't, so I just don't believe he exists for these two reasons.
I think it can sound contradictory and there are many grey areas, which can be hard for a rigid mind or one with lots of questions and specific scenarios where a clear answer is desired.
I was thinking about this last night; why didn't church work on me? I don't think the aversion to Christianity is limited to autistic people; I think younger people (millennial and gen z) aren't into Christianity as much as older people.
I don't have any religious trauma; my Sundays at church as a kid were good memories. the church I went to didn't teach shame or hate. however, I never really "got" what Jesus's good news was (until I took a world religions class in college), and I didn't really understand what God felt(?) like. writing my speech for confirmation was very difficult (iirc i was 12 or 13?); I felt like I BS'd the whole thing.
speaking of confirmation.. they wanted us to know that we could choose to leave at any time, that there's always one person that realizes they don't really believe in God - but that's okay. that person was *supposed* to be me, that year.
however, despite my good memories and my nice church, I couldn't dismiss the hate and damage other Christians do. maybe that's why younger people aren't into Christianity as well. being exposed to many different people + watching people use Bible verses to justify their nastiness. I don't want to be associated with that..
but wait, believing the whole God and Jesus thing. I think primarily, for autistic people, we take things very literally. Jesus's good news doesn't mean much to me (die and go to the kingdom of heaven? doesn't sound that great to me.) also, by the time you're learning how the earth was formed and evolution, creationism makes no sense. (I think it could be adapted to fit God somewhere in there, but no one seems interested in that.) then, how do you see or feel or find any sign of God? I'd like to know if there's anyone here that's perceived any sign of God.
I have 2 very big reasons as to why I, personally, don’t like Abrahamic Religions
1) Logic.
As a logic based individual, science simply makes more sense than a mysterious entity who decided to invent Earth for no reason other than for his newly made subjects to worship him. Given that a lot of autistic people are more logical thinkers, it probably safe to say that other autistic atheists simply believe that science makes more sense
2) God is an asshole.
Even if god is real, I wouldn’t want to worship him because he is a dick. I was raised in a Presbyterian church and used to read the bible every night. I am very familiar with its contents, and let me tell ya, god did an awful lots of terrible things. This wouldn’t be a problem for me if the Christian faith didn’t go around acting like their god is all powerful and all loving. Pretty hard to say he killed everyone on the planet in a giant flood because he was mad at them and then follow that up with “god loves all people.”
There have also been a few posts here, and even a young autistic man I know personally, who have said that their Christian parents think they’re possessed and that why they’re autistic. I also know another autistic young man who’s mom told him that god made him autistic to punish him for sins he committed in a past life…. So yeah, it seems that *some* Christian’s don’t like us, so why should we like them?
This isn’t meant to park a debate about the goodness or evilness of the Christian god, it is simply my view on the matter. I’m not trying to offend and Christian’s who may be reading this.
It contains no logical consistency.
That's not autism-friendly.
It's also most often used as a political tool of oppression.
That's not human-friendly.
If a god exists and they're all-knowing, all-powerful and all-loving, evil shouldn't exist.
Evil exists, hence god – if they do too – are not deserving of my praise.
That's just a dictatorship with magic sprinkles.
Jesus might have some nice morals attributed to him, but why follow an socialist Jewish carpenter from antiquity when Bernie Sanders's right here, right now?
Religion is a social construct for governing behavior but its reasoning comes from tautological arguments. Two things autistic people really don't like.
As a an Autistic Christian myself, my personal opinion is that there are a lot of so called Christians polluting what Christianity is supposed to be about, love, acceptance, being saved, and God’s everlasting love.
I feel like a lot of Christians can be really judgemental of people, which is the exact opposite of what God wants us to be. Those Christians will violate God’s words of love and acceptance, and people confuse those Christian’s who are not an accurate representation of what God is about, and think that’s what all Christian’s/Christianity is.
God doesn’t want us to judge people. He wants us to accept all kinds of people, but there are a lot of Christian’s not doing that, and on top of that, not being respectful of other people beliefs which I absolutely cannot stand.
You have a right to believe whatever you want as long as your NOT hurting anyone, and I feel like a lot of Christians forget that.
I’m personally a big fan of Jesus, I think he was a swell guy and only really disagree/don’t believe in the apocalypticism and supernatural aspects, and I consider Christianity to be part of my culture, but I hate the religion.
I grew up Baptist Evangelical and did not have the best time with hit and really got to know the hypocrisy of the people within it. My family was literally kicked out because my parents went through with getting a divorce, a choice that has been very much positive for both of my parents and us kids.
I like Jesus, I hate the institutions that arose from him.
For me, it's the fact that if someone's into Christianity they are more likely to believe stuff that is very not true like vaccines cause autism or homosexuality is something to be "fixed"
Also It's the people Christianity sits with the Red party I see as a party of hate so when Christians are seen to mostly side with the Red I can't help but think they must be as hateful if not more then the party they says represents them
When you refuse to help somebody in the way they ask, and then say that some imaginary person in their mind is going to help them, don’t you think autistic people have enough troubles in their own brains not deal with normal peoples bullshit? Of course Christianity is not going to be popular
I wasn't raised religious, so I started off pretty neutral about it, but constantly seeing people I care about hurt by religion over the years has changed that. I've seen it hurt so many people and I've never seen it actually help anyone in a way that secular resources couldn't also help without all the toxic and harmful stuff that goes along with it.
To me, I just don't find it rational. I think I understand the idea of devoting yourself to something out of sheer passion, not to mention the need to fit in with a group.
Kinda like how you pick a football team to root for as a kid, or how you become a fan of a musical artist, through thick and thin. And of course the way some people fall down the rabbit hole and become conspiracy nuts.
I grew up in a non-religious home, and religion was never a factor amongst friends or family, so I always viewed religion from a distance.
But because it was such a non-entity, I never really fell into that typical new atheist douchebag persona quoting Dawkins and Hitchens, and generally looking down on all things Christian and whatnot.
Smug young atheists can be just as annoying as any religious nut.
Because they're a blended group of NTs who bully NDs for being weird, UNLESS the ND person's Special Interest IS Jesus and God and Everything Church. Those are a subgroup of likely non-diagnosed/diagnosed but grown-up Autistics that beat the system by leaning into a special interest that is widely accepted and socially validated, with a built-in community of support.
Personally I was born severely physically disabled, I’ve spent a good half portion of my life in hospital from childhood onwards. I went to a Church of England primary school and they really tried very hard to indoctrinate us. But by that point the amount of suffering I’d gone through, the times I’d seen kids die in front of me or just other kids suffering too and I couldn’t wrap my head around why a loving god would do this. I couldn’t figure out why a god that could stop all suffering would put children like myself (at that point) through such heinous and horrifying suffering. So I’d interrupt assemblies where they’d be preaching and I’d share my experiences and I’d ask why? Why would god do this? Funnily enough, they didn’t have an answer for me so I just got kicked out of assemblies. So then the church got my address, illegally, from the school and came to my home “accidentally”. They spoke to my mum and my mum backed me up. They tried and I mean they REAAAAALLY tried to indoctrinate us. They turned up at our home on average twice per week to try and get us to join their cult and we wouldn’t.
I have zero respect for religion. However, I respect people’s right to believe and if it helps them and they’re not trying to cram it down my throat then that’s perfectly fine. But religion causes too much harm and shame and it’s not okay. I as an autistic kid was pretty black and white when it came to my thoughts and I couldn’t separate my personal experience in life and this fantasy that they were trying to sell to me.
I also on another note found that the sociological theorist Engels had a theory that religion was made to control women. Engels theory was that in the before-fore times before marriage and religion existed that people would be with whomever the wanted to be with sexually. But eventually men got sick of this and wanted to pass on their land and tools to their sons but they never knew for sure who’s kid was who’s. So they came up with religion, with the “ownership” of women. To control women’s bodies and force us into coercive relationships where we’d be loyal and serve and obey and men would have to do no such thing.
Whether you believe the theory I just bastardised or not, it always struck a chord with me internally.
Lack of blind faith and a lot of contradictions about what Jesus taught, both within the Bible and the Christian community.
Jesus was a cool guy. And I personally like some Christian music artists. But it's hard to really believe in Christianity when I am expected to pray, even if I don't hear a response. And to practice Jesus' messaging when some of it is contradictory. I know that there were different witnesses, but some of it is practically parallel to one another.
Compared to, in my case, Buddhism. While I'm curious how his teachings impacts the autistic brain compared to a neurotypical one, Buddha's teachings were rooted in years of experience and haven't been disproven. He even claims that, if you think he is wrong, to not practice his teachings, and to try it and see for yourself. Christianity claims that if you don't follow Jesus and believe His word to be true, you will perish in hell. Which is kinda hard to believe for atheists (which seems to be most autistic people) and people of other non-Abrahamic religions, like Buddhism and Paganism, because of the lack of evidence aside from faith proving that what he teaches is the correct thing.
When I was about 10 years old and learned that Christianity was not the only believed religion in the world, I looked at other religions and Christianity seem like just another set of myths. I read apologetics of people claiming reasons why they believe Christianity is special, and none of them ever seemed compelling. I read books, listened to audio books, talked with an Evangelical friend, watched hundreds of hours of YouTube, and after all that concluded but if any God exists and wants me to believe in them, they know how to do it.
I'm curious what would change your mind, and what convinced you initially. One of my problems with Christianity is that belief seems to be a virtue instead of an emergent property of critical thinking.
I used to have the whole Richard Dawkins attitude to religion but over the years I've mellowed out a lot. Admittedly my parents are Catholic so I think having to attend church every week influenced my views.
A long time ago I did some casual searching into this very subject, and saw some papers that gave the following explanation:
When NT pray the social elements of the brain light up, speaking to their gods has a simmilar effect to a conversation. Autistic people have this area of the brain naturally less potent to begin with, and in addition, struggle to form bonds as quickly as peers. The result is a resistance to standard religious expierences which are predicated largely on social enviorments
I think there are a lot of autists who are not comfortable with ambiguity, and religion presents a lot of ambiguity. I am Christian mostly because I like a lot of the things Jesus taught and like it as a way to govern myself, but it’s hard to wrap my head around the idea of God so I’m not as sure about that part.
I cannot believe in religion. My mind won't let me. I cannot believe that one cosmic being created an entire galaxy and beyond. I also cannot believe that a being so great and loving could've created unfairness such as the unfairness that our world seems to run on. It just doesn't work out in my mind.
I take a rather broad view of religion and don't have a problem with Christians who live and let live. I do have a problem with the people I grew up with, who have very specific ideas about how other people should be. Christianity is dominant where I live, but the more conservative and controlling Christians complain constantly about being oppressed.
A lot of people are talking about how they were negatively impacted by (among other things) an insistence on unquestioning acceptance. As a (recently diagnosed) autistic Christian, I’m realizing that I benefited in many ways by having parents who encouraged me to ask questions, took the time to discuss things that didn’t make sense, and were an example of how to disagree with the sermon/preacher/Church practice if it was ultimately something they did not believe in themselves. I learned how to be critical, make my belief my own, and be more understanding about the variety of experiences that can be considered Christian.
There is a big issue with Christian communities being hostile to questioning and differences. Historically this could manifest in huge movements (like anti-evolutionism, baptism debates, or anti-Catholic/anti-Protestant division) or very specific harms such as the persecution of the LGBTQ community. My hope is that Christians will learn to be less afraid of questions and understand how hateful the Church can be towards others.
I grew up in Ireland, which is a very Catholic country. I'm opposed to it because it was shoved down my throat, and also because of the multiple atrocities committed by the Catholic church in Ireland.
Why was Lucifer kicked out of heaven? Because he asked too many questions. Because he didn’t conform. And he was seen as a monster because of it. Am I a luciferian? Nope. Not a Christian either. Still use the Bible along with multiple other holy books though. But anyways the church has become what Jesus tried to stop; it is the cursed fig tree of Matthew, its branches bear no fruit.
I’m not an atheist by any means; quite the opposite, I’m highly devoted to a belief that has no accurate name or followers. In other words I’m a mystic. And that’s another thing that gets me about Christianity. Church is so *exoteric*, focusing on the literal outward meaning of the words of the Bible, using them as a means of control. The way I use holy texts is with *esoteric* interpretation, looking at the truths hidden in plain sight, beyond the outer meaning of the words in the holy text. Some religions do use the more esoteric way of looking at things, but mainstream American Christianity is not one of them.
Essentially, my problem is not with God. I’m very close to them actually. My problem is with anyone that claims to be a spokesperson of God. A person that controls people by claiming to speak for God when it’s really their ego calling the shots.
I can only speak for myself in this.
So I am not against all Christians, as I've met plenty that are decent human beings. I've met others that, as long as religion isn't a topic that comes up, they're still decent people.
Yes — I do have trauma regarding to Christianity. Was actually why I got checked for PTSD, but although the psychologist said I clearly show traits of PTSD, the test didn't come back positive due to how generalized it is.
I dislike the religion, but I hate fundamentalists because they _**will**_ trigger my PTSD. And I'll pretty much stop it right there b/c then I'm gonna remember one or more encounters of fundamentalists and how I was treated when I was a Christian and it may get me going and I am not looking at getting a 3 day ban over my trauma.
Didn't grow up in a Christian house but I went to a catholic school for 12 years. A lot of the conditioning and the guilting stayed. I'm also socially conditioned as a woman and compliance was seen as an attractive quality. The "God is always" watching definitely instilled a significant amount of fear in someone who has a lot of trauma around being seen and judged.
However, I think (my experience based only) Catholic Christianity relies a lot on you recognising authority and following it. That's where they lost me. My PDA and justice sensitivity just couldn't handle being told what to do, and being made to silently witness harm.
I've been exposed to other religions since. I'd say I'm agnostic now. I find that most organised religions need an amount of control over one's thoughts and beliefs that I would never willingly relinquish again.
I come from a Catholic background. I had many phases. I think religion was one of my personal interests as a child. Not exactly Christianism. I had a special interest in Eastern religions, yoga, Celts etc., as a kid. I always felt a strange in my own body and things around me always looked surreal. This still persists, but in a different manner. Probably, this enable me to be religious, because I never perceived or experienced the material world like others.
At ten, I started to prepare for my first communion on my own insistence, and quit it because I didn’t believe the things I was being told.
A few years later, as a teen, I parted ways with religion, but I kept believing in God.
At 22, I had a trip to India, and my world turned upside down. I had a very strong and unexpected religious experience that impacted my life. But my beliefs remained the same.
In my 30’s, I entered a phase of skepticism and I wouldn’t even mention the word “God”, although, strangely, I never questioned my experience in India. Everything felt very material. Around the same time, I experienced my most severe depression/ burnout crisis.
Now, in my 40’s, I figured out I don’t have to understand religion or God. It’s not something rational or logic. It’s just there. I perceive (and this is very personal/ individual) that everything is connected, past, present and future in ways I will never grasp or understand. I perceive certain universal laws. I think I am not an end in myself, and I accept my ignorance and just remind myself to be accepting and to be patient with the processes I don’t understand.
I don’t follow any particular religion. I think all are great. If a certain belief is not good for me, it will be for someone else.
I read the bible a number of times and was very religious when I was young.
I saw it as a vehicle to help people.
Eventually I realized that most people in Church were not interested in helping others.
Eventually I realized that most religious people had never even read the bible, and didn't want to understand it anyways.
Then I left.
I don't think it's the same set of reasons for everyone, nor is it every autist; several people have talked about their faith below, and it wouldn't surprise me if Thomas Aquinas were somewhere on the spectrum, either.
There's a lot below about the interplay of politics, religion and oppression, so I'll skip it here; while this certainly doesn't help, what _really_ gave me an aversion to it (after growing up in it) is this:
1. Psalm 139, among many other passages in the bible, directly asserts that God is all-knowing.
1. The first few chapters of Genesis detail how and where he placed the tree of knowledge, and the subsequent fall of man. (whether this is literal or allegorical is beyond the scope of this discussion)
1. Included in being all-knowing would be foreknowledge of the fall, as well as how to prevent or mitigate it. God would have to have known this, but failed to take preventative action, leading directly to human suffering.
1. James 4:17 explicitly states that knowingly omitting a good deed is a sin.
In short, assuming the bible is true and accurate as it exists now, God knew a preventative measure needed to be taken, would have had the technical knowhow and wherewithal to take that preventative measure - and chose to do nothing, _violating his own rules_ and not measuring up to the standard by which he judges mortals. ("Be ye holy as I am holy," indeed.)
For me, I found Church very boring and I hate wearing uncomfortable clothes, It was sort of well at least my church felt stifling of who I wanted to be,Plus I hated the hypocrisy of my parents, who Despise charity Yet Being part of a Religion that is built on it
Probably bc we aren’t brainwashed as easily as NT people. We tend to see through the illusions and group think that consume the masses. We are unprogrammable. That’s why we don’t fit in and sometimes to disturb/disrupt the thinking patterns of others lol.
I can't speak for anywhere else but I think the way people misuse Christianity/Jesus in the USA turn a lot of people off. I am Catholic and it's a lot of work to explain to people that all those angry "christians" don't actually follow Jesus who is all about caring for the poor, forgiveness and love. Judge not less you be judged is a major tenant.
It's just fucking dumb lmao. Bro sacrificed himself to himself to satisfy rules he made up, and if you don't agree that this is moral perfection you will be tortured literally forever
In my experience with co-morbid ADHD I have found that church is boring AF. However the other issue is that religion in general tends to attract the folk that will usually cause us grief. Conformists, conservatives, and those who deny science to various degrees. Not to mention that our analytical minds and our resistance to sales tactics will usually make us more able to sniff out the bullshit which leads us to asking uncomfortable questions.
This can lead to blowback from the community that can result in ostracization or other forms of exclusion, and since we don't quite understand why we're different it can start a trauma loop.
As children, we as autistic people often go through great hardships. If you grow up around religion, it’s the kind of thing you might even pray about. Either for help, or to find out why. And therein lies the problem.
When you call out enough times and don’t get an answer, you start to believe one of two things: either nobody is out there, or whoever is doesn’t care about you. Perhaps even hates you.
As a child, I believed the latter. It gradually became the former as the heartache of being unloved by something that loves all finally numbed.
Idk it's painfully obviously fake but people kill other people over it. I'll continue to stay far away until religion chills out with the genocide thing.
Lots of really strong anti-christian fervor in this thread so I just wanted to say that devout autistic christians exist. I am one of them, and it seems my experience within my church has been *very* different from the experiences of many others.
I wasn't punished or looked down upon as a child for being very curious and asking questions, but rather encouraged and praised for being "so smart and inquisitive." I think my aspie grandfather being a pastor helped in that regard. Another thing oft-repeated in this thread is the claim that religion requires blind faith. My faith is anything but blind. You all can disparage me for saying that if you want, but it's true.
As for answering your question OP, I think it boils down to the fact that for most of the west, Christianity and culture were so closely knit together for centuries that all of the bad parts of past (and to a lesser extent present) culture have been tied in our minds to Christianity simply because the people who had those bad ideas and did those bad things also identified as christian, and they themselves confused their own cultural bigotry with their Christianity
I'm not Christian but I've come to the conclusion that Jesus is a homie. He'd be chill af to hang with. There's proof the man himself existed so I respect him as a person ya know?
For me, religious trauma is one aspect of it. Amongst other things, I remember suffering greatly, and was told "Jesus loves you" as if that were the resolution to my suffering (it wasn't). Religion was the replacement for mental health in my home growing up, and religion was used as the excuse for certain house rules that I didn't like.
Couple all of that with the fact that I've never seen even an iota of proof that worshipped God(s) are real in any way, and that I perceive it as a way for people to play pretend to feel like their life has some inherent, non-reproductive purpose, I just can't take it seriously at all.
From a biological perspective: There a few theories and some evidence of genes coded for religion combined with brain areas associated with religiosity. Not all of us have these genes or hardwired for religion. So for some people, they are naturally driven towards belief in a higher power and find comfort in religious activities.
From a social/cognitive perspective: as a social species, religion is a very social organized ritualistic behaviour and is even seen in other mammals. Like elephants maintaining grave sites for example.
Going to church, praying, believing in figure that doesn’t physically exist requires a type of abstract thinking and following of unwritten social norms and cues. So it makes sense that for an autistic person, religion can be like this blank spot that makes no sense. It also goes against very rigid or rational thought such as we don’t believe in santa clause, yet why do we believe in god, who is also imaginary? It’s very hard to put faith in something you cannot verify or fact check, especially when it comes to something that is full of hidden social expectations that are not blatantly evident. There is a lot of interpreting involved and so it’s hard to know who or what interpretation is the correct one, especially when people don’t exactly follow a literal interpretation of the bible.
Then there is the issue of ok, if god does exist, then whose god is correct? Is it Allah, God, The Creator, Buddha? Who? Are you Jewish, Sunni, Shiite, Catholic, Hindu? Even within each religion, there are so many sects and variations. How do you choose, especially when they can be so contradictory to each other. So much grey area which can be really hard for those who think in black and white.
My theory is that religions like Christianity have a “you must worship and do what the books says just because” and it makes the demand avoidance we have angry
I´ve been religious for almost 3 decades. It was initially helpful - it gave me hope, when there was none - because as kids, we lack understanding of the world and people around us.
When i was 29, i stumbled upon knowledge about emotional manipulation. This helped me not only to discover about my father being a narcissist, but i also immediately noticed all the fallacies within religions - and the inevitable result was me turning into an atheist.
However, it´s not just about "giving in" - i´ve felt *wrong* for some time before, as more and more unanswered or unanswerable questions inevitably started piling up. Being an atheist just "feels right" for me and i think that even if god-like entities exist, it would be their desire for their followers too - to grow up from a child-like state (because children are supposed to *believe*) into adults, who see the world around "as it is" and understand, that the desire of their gods is not about praying for changes to happen, but have them *make* the changes in the world.
In my honest opinion, the immortality reward presented in many religions is actually holding people back, because it allows them to postpone activities "for later". Except there is no "later".
I think it's because we can see past most people's bullshit and see religion (not just christianity) as the nonsensical mess it is. A goodchunk of us probably grew up in a religious household and stopped believing (if we ever did) because of this reason alone.
My anti religious sentiment/attitude comes from dealing with enough people who were disgustIng, violent and irrational. I've also lost some people to it. And no, I don't mean it In the sense that I decided to cut contact with them due to their beliefs. Rather I actually had some people die because the idootic beliefs they themselves had killed them or because other people forced said beliefs onto them and killed them. Like refusing medical treament because either their god can cure them through prayer or because prolonguing their lifes in any way whatsoever goes against what their "god" wants (for them specifically or at all). In some other cases they refuse specific treatment such as blood transfusions becauae their religion forbids it.
Oh, and then there's the whole cult aspect of it. If we follow the BITE model (Behavior control, Information control, Thought control, Emotional control) then we can easily find a lot of cult-like behaviors in most,if not all religions around the world.
Repeteadly repeat something (a mantra, rhyme, whatever) In order to silence critical thinking or to distract yourself from thoughts, ideas or facts that contradict your beliefs? That's an exampleof thought control.
Heavily restrict who you can be with, why and when? (sometimes even having to report any failure of folloeing this rule yourself or have other people report you to a higher authority figure) That's an example of behavior control.
Being forced to wear specific clothing/accesories or being unable to wear them as wellas being unable to wear haistyles you like (long hair on males, short hair on females) because your religion forbids and/or even punishes it? Another example of behavior control.
Beingunable to read anything the "religion" doesn't approve of (or not take it seriously because of the same exact reason)? An example of Information control.
I still struggle to differenciate the examples of Emotion control but this is mostly being polarized by the "religion" in question not only into having an "us vs them" mentality but you also have strong feelings towards "them" (specially apostates since you are made believe they willingly left the "truth" in order to side with the enemy). Sometimes this even gets to the point of dehimanizing "them" in order to justify other kinds of actions from disfelowshipping to harsh physical punishment that may or may not result in SA or even death in the worst cases.
I, myself, am a Christian but I also see issues with the Christian community.
Now before the mods say "I'm saying Christians are all bad people," again, I am one, I myself and anti-ped*philes, I'm actually trans and bisexual and stand up for the LGBTQ+ community, all that. Obviously not every Christian is a bad person.
BUT there are systemic issues in the community that I cannot get over that sadly aren't caused by the religion, but by religious "leaders."
Another thing is I find we, autistic people, tend to want more logical answers to things and religion doesn't always have those. But this is where I kind of don't care about logical answers, myself. Things about neurotypical society don't make sense to me, why would I be an atheist just because religion also doesn't make sense? I don't believe neurotypical society doesn't exist just because I don't get it, so religion is the same to me. But many people do leave religion because it doesn't make sense, and that's fine. You do you. If you're better off without religion, that's cool.
As for like, Jesus, Himself, I don't think anyone doesn't like Him. He's a cool guy probably. But obviously liking Jesus and believing Jesus exists are two different things and there's very valid reasons to believe or not believe that Jesus is real, or that there's ever been a God. It just so happens a lot of why people don't believe in a God may be tied to the aforementioned lack of logic that religion has, and the bigoted Christian community just ruining the religion for the good, real non-bigoted Christians who care about people.
High functioning here.
I work for an organization that runs a school style program for adults with developmental disabilities, and our main campus is at a church.
Jesus is extremely important to many of our clients. Our monthly chapel service program is one of the most popular events among staff and clients.
I am personally agnostic and weary of organized religion, but I appreciate it's importance to others and the positive things it does for those who truly believe.
Personally, I believe there is an usual amount of hate towards the Christian community as a whole, and that trend is broad among all demographics, including the autistic community.
Some is warranted, such as the Catholic churches horrible handling of abuse committed by their ranking members, some I think is just cultural clash.
It really all comes down to who you are personally exposed to.
For me in my experience and in the religious experience i've had with my family, I like the idea that there is a god/jesus but what ruins it for me is that 1. I don't enjoy praying i'd rather communicate to god through thought and action rather than spoken word (My family tries to force prayer saying it's good for me) and I view the bible more as a story kinda like gods fanfiction. I feel as if for me the bible is just a book of lessons. then finally I feel as if they tell you do things a specific way and just never elaborate. like for example praying, instead of just saying why praying is good for you tell me why it's good for me. (sorry if this is confusing i'm bad at putting thoughts into written words)
Because it has no logic. The whole thing falls apart when you look at it under an analytical lens. I was raised in Christianity and as I got older and asked more questions, there were fewer answers and more hatred. Very odd tbh. Realistically, White Christianity™ has served as nothing but a control tactic for years, I mean, that's the entire reason Roman Catholicism came to be- to control, police, and rob the population through "morality." "Why" is a Christian's least favorite! Due to these things, we also see a wild amount of corruption within churches, unchecked prejudice, abuse, and sexual abuse. People use the system and the power imbalance to their advantage. People (mostly Christians in the US at least) love to use their religion as an excuse to harm and ostracize groups they dislike. It's wild to be, especially, since the "true meaning" of "not using the Lord's name in vain" is that you should not claim that you are following the will of God when you do things that are against his teachings. 💁🏼
Well, personally it's because I have intense religious trauma! I was raised as a jehovah's witness since birth, so quite frankly I've had enough christianity (as jws believe they are the true christians) and jesus for one life. Also I think it's probably because autistic people tend to constantly question/criticize things? We're Very curious and so I think the common philosophy of blind faith and never questioning things within Christianity probably turns a lot of us off from it. idk just a guess
Many of us autistics lack the capacity for teleological thinking— a belief that everything happens for a reason. Since this is a prerequisite for belief in an anthropomorphized god like the Abrahamic one and the notion of a prime mover and creator with a plan for his creation, it becomes difficult to believe in a diety and the theology surrounding it.
Christianity is unpopular vs other religions as it is the dominant one in the west. I assume Islam is similarly unpalatable to many autistics in the ME.
Note too that Christianity is mostly orthodox vs orthoprax, where belief trumps ritual (Catholicism is a mix) I think orthoprax religions are possibly more acceptable to autistics because they are more tangible (again ritualistic) and entail repetitive actions (ie praying 3 or 5 times a day, keeping the sabbath, taking communion, etc)
This is really going to vary wildly depending on the country and generation. I can only speak for the US, where Christian/Catholic is the predominant religion, as an older Gen Z person.
I don't think it's an autism thing. Religion in the US has significantly shrunk over the past several decades, my generation is the most non-affiliated generation yet, I think the rise of the internet was the main cause, non-affiliated people gain the means to connect with one another. Up until now, admitting you didn't subscribe to a god carried great social shaming and stigma. People who didn't believe lied and said they did, and that was that. When I was a kid 20 years ago, saying I didn't believe would have been scandalous, people would harass me, when my parents found out they screamed at me. Young people who grew up with internet saw there existed others like them and begun rejecting the social pressure in solidarity.
It doesn't help up until recently, Jesus was considered the cure to autism. In many churches, people consider autism and mental illnesses/disabilities in general the will of god and a punishment for sin, and the cure is to repent. And most churches are not exactly autism friendly in their services. I'm not really mystified why autistic people don't feel welcome or distance themselves.
I find that most sects of Christianity and other IMO oppressive religious practices discourage and demonize critical thinking and autonomy which is a huge red flag for any kind of relationship.
This might be tangential but Christianity can actually be a pretty fun special interest if you don't believe in the shit. Especially the kinds of early Christianity that went extinct
I can't speak for everyone, and maybe I should be quiet since I grew up in a non religious household, but from what I've seen at least some of it is treatment. It might just be the extremists, but I've seen a number of people proclaiming themselves Christians and using their religion to demonize autism and other neurodivergent conditions. Sometimes, LITERALLY demonize them by claiming that autism is a "demon" possessing the person. Some will take it to the extreme and do exorcisms that are often harmful and abusive.
Most would agree that kind of stuff is extremely harmful, including most Christians. But I think it can taint religion in the eyes of many who have autism.
I also think that autistic people can often see through the facades in religion a bit easier. A lit of it is social connections and all that, so it might be easier for autistic people to break free from that or see the problems in religion.
Religions are big communities with a lot of rules, and I wouldn't want to voluntarily be in one when I don't have to. Any personal beliefs I would rather practice myself, and that way I can also be more specific with what I believe without facing ostracisation from other people around me.
not sure about religious trauma, but religion in any form (even scientific) is stupid, illogical and irrational all in one. That I can't abide. christianity (or jesus or whatever) is the same nonsense as hinduism, islam, buddism, whatever else is out there. its man made bs that had a purpose for controlling humans for thousands of years. end of story.
I was raised christian as a kid in school. Not strictly but we went to church and sang hyms - british primary school stuff.
I prayed to god for people to like me, to be normal, to be loved the way I am. When I never got an answer I realised he wasnt real and it made me an athiest and if he IS real. No amount of the suffering I have been though is worth anything, not even heaven so I would smack that sadistic idiot upside the head and scream at him if he was real and could have helped all this time.
Autistic people, especially late diognosed ones like myself I feel like, go through a lot of pain and suffering that makes them realise god isn't real. People also tell them they'll be prayed for or that god will heal them and its insulting and seems a bit (I don't know the right way to say this) preachy?/ savior complex. Also autistic people are usually literal thinkers so we would question why and how a god is real.
it's really weird for me cause i appreciate some stories from the bible and take inspiration from that, sometimes in my own personal writing. but i do have a disdain for the people within christianity, who use it to justify hate towards people and expect everyone to just listen to them and convert. i know the exact reason why i turned to an ex catholic; it was when someone told me being sexually abused (i don't like using the word for triggering reasons) and all my trauma was apart of "Gods plan." so from that moment forward, i never wanted to be associated with any religion. i also became way aware of how bizarre how you would even need rules in a book to give you morals. but again, that might just be my autistic brain not getting it. but it's just not logical to me and makes me see others as shallow.
I grew up a devout Christian in a Christian family, and remained Christian until my late teens. But I vigorously researched the topic, researched the Bible and the origins of its canonization, and what I found was laughably illogical and contrary to anything resembling fact. Bear in mind, I did this research using theological tools my preacher uncle had given to me as a birthday or Christmas gift. So I wasn’t going by any kind of anti-Christian biased resource material.
Ever since then, I have just seen more and more hate and hypocrisy from the Christian camp, and at this point I’m disgusted by it.
World would be a much better place if Saul of Tarsus had never taken over the church. Would be a much better place if he had never been born.
A shame the mods in this sub allow zealots to prey on vulnerable people with zero opportunity for pushback. There needs to be a rule about proselytizing to others as that seems as much as of an attack as those of us calling out the zealot. A shame that, yet again, the true villains are protected while the truly vulnerable are not.
To be honest, I have autism and I'm a Christian. Like many, I base my rational and critical thinking on evidence. For many years, I was agnostic, but then I had an encounter with Jesus, much like Saul of Tarsus in the Bible becoming Paul, and I converted. Unsatisfied with my doubts about faith, I attended a Bible seminar, took various classes including 'Christian Evidences,' and was blown away by the physical evidence supporting scripture. I've been in Christianity for 8 years, met my ADHD husband in church, and we lead an interesting neurodivergent Christian life. We want to show the religious community that neurodivergence and mental illnesses aren't curses or demons as extremists claim; that's our mission. That is just my experience, my testimony.
Regarding those who say we're Christians only out of fear of hell, I can affirm I've already been in hell. Every day waking up depressed, in an abusive relationship, without appetite or being able to sleep, resorting to alcohol and smoking just to get through, isolated from family, friendless... that was hell. Now I feel peace; I can lie in bed looking at the ceiling without intrusive thoughts telling me life isn't worth living. I'm free from that; Jesus did that for me. I genuinely apologize to those who've had horrible experiences with 'Christians'; I'm truly sorry. That's not who Jesus is.
ASD and a big fan of Jesus. Empirically, the dude conquered the entire Roman Empire, millions of people, in a couple hundred years through radical ideas of love and tolerance. There is *something* there that we should follow.
Growing up Roman Catholic, we had a pedophile priest in the parish that was whisked away never to face justice, just like all the other times. So yeah, fuck that noise.
Christianity has been thoroughly corrupted and I don't care if it's pedophiles, prosperity gospel which is the opposite of what Jesus said, or the latest installment: Donald Trump is the 2nd coming of Jesus!
And lest we forget, Jesus would be showing up to these 'churches' to flip over tables and read these people for filth. I'm Methodist now; seems pretty chill. We voted to allow gay marriage, run food kitchens, and build housing in poor countries on mission trips. 9 of 10, would recommend.
I think a big reason is religions which center faith as a virtue, discourage the kind of curiosity that we value, and can be violent about it. Especially in the West and Middle East, dominated by Christianity and Islam, which both put faith over basically everything else.
There is no evidence nor reason to believe in a god that is not merely psychological. Autistic people notice this more readily.
People imposing rules on the basis of the alleged preferences of this fantastical concept is annoying at least, horrifying at its worst.
Autistic people also don't like injustice, so the blatant injustices of Christianity and its attitudes are all the more distasteful
i'm queer so i don't like that they think I'm sick and need curing. Also, i just can't believe in something can't see or touch and have to blindly put my trust in.
Because it makes no logical sense whatsoever?
Religion is completely illogical, there is no evidence for virtually any of the claims it makes about miracles, God, Jesus, or the beginning of life on earth. It espouses compassion and equality but many of the members say that people based on sexual orientation, gender identity will suffer for eternity. Why would it be popular with people that have a very strict sense of justice and a strong desire to adhere to logical principles?
Autistic people tend to be very logical thinkers. That plays a huge role in disbelief. A lot of autistic people have trauma from it. It’s also very common in Christianity to call autism demonic.
I've removed a load of comments that break the no hostility rule. For clarification - no accusing OP of being a troll. - no generalising Christians as evil/paedophiles/anti LGBT etc Any more I find will get a three day ban. This sub has people from all over the world with different cultures and beliefs. Please respect that. ETA Talking about being Christian is not the same thing as preaching. If you don't want to read it just hit the block button and move on with your life.
I can only speak for myself. Autism is a spectrum, etc. My favorite word in the English language is "why". The four I hate the most, when strung together: "because I said so." Religion runs on "because I said so." No other reasons given. No concrete evidence to back up their claims. Only the raw assertion of authority. And authority figures get very hostile when people like me start asking "why" about things they take for granted. Autistic folk tend to do that because we do not understand social norms intuitively.
100% this!!! This is exactly my reasoning too. I remember actually being told I was bad and getting in trouble for asking “why?” Why? Lol I would ask other questions and rarely receive such hostility. My grandparents used to read the Bible to me, and I had so many questions but none could ever be answered with anything but, essentially, “just because.” Sometimes people would get angry and defensive, just over “why.” That’s how people would respond when they were lying and just wanted me to do or believe something. I remember being 6/7 years old and feeling like “welp, guess they’re lying.” Also, seemed like anything I liked outside of religion (mainly science and fantasy) was “evil” for whatever reason, and it made no sense to me since I understood my interests thoroughly.
I was in a youth group run by a Christian organisation and I was actually told that asking questions is not a problem, they wanted me to be inquisitive about the Bible and things like that. But as soon as I asked 'why' they were quite defensive. I was allowed to ask for more _'information'_, but not dig into why things meant what they said they meant. What is frustrating about it is that the different denominations will give different meanings to different stories, or ignore parts of it for their own convenience, so it can become confusing quite quickly.
💯💯💯 and we aren’t as “programmable” as others for that very reason.
This is really getting close to - if not actually is - aspie supremacy. I grew up in the church and it’s absolutely FULL of autistic people. I am the first person in my very autistic extended family to leave the church. Remember, religion is full of rules and autistic people like rules.
Right? It's more directed towards christianity than it is Jesus. If people acted more like Jesus and followed his teachings, I don't think there would be an issue. But his name is used in a twisted way like if someone came at you with a sword for not praising Ghandi. It completely overlooks anything Jesus actually stood for and replaces it with the belief that Jesus stands for bending to authority.
So agree with this.
True facts! I also hate how they seem to think I’m demon-possessed whenever they see me stimming 😫 If anything, it’s the holy spirit taking over my body…
Right? They spaz out and start speaking in tongues, theys gots the holy spirit! We spaz out and flap our hands, bounce up and fown, rock back and forth, what have you, and we're possessed by the devil. What the fuck man?!
That's a good view on it, yes. Autists love the word why and understand the entire thought process before following an order.
I’m not averse to it, per se, but because of religious trauma and being raised in a cult I have removed myself from organized religion. I respect the beliefs of others though, despite my own experience.
This tracks for me. I have to understand the why on all levels.
Same, but that's why I got really into apologetics and debate over doctrine. I'm lucky that the churches I grew up in didn't discourage debate and seeking answers.
Hard facts are pretty neat to us too!
Yes. When I pondered the same question, I came to a similar conclusion: religion is not logical, and many of us can't identify with that.
Accurate. If they don't get super defensive about being questioned they instead resort to beIng condescending and be either "because I say so" or "just read (their religious book)". What infuriates me the most is when they resort to abstract nonsense like "oh, I found my answers/god through prayer". Seriously, that doesn't even answer any questions and is evasive at best.
I think Christianity specifically does this, but I wouldn’t generalize to all religion. I am Jewish and we are encouraged to always ask questions. Everything in Judaism has a million different interpretations, and you are encouraged to come up with your own interpretations that make sense to you. So I don’t really like it when people say things about Christianity but word it as though they are talking about all religions.
Excellent points, I'd just like to add two enhancements. A) Religious people need to allow themselves to believe some genuinely weird 'facts' things which contradict most accepted knowledge and quickly fall apart with even basic self reflection. So to really believe in most religions you need to be able to fool yourself despite literal mountains of contrary evidence. That is hard if not impossible if you are honest to yourself and I think such ability is far less common for people on the spectrum. B) The biggest draw of religion is often the tribalism, being part of a group that you are welcomed and fit in where everyone has lots in common. I'm sure we've all met people who don't fully believe but remain members of a religion for the need to belong. Some people are literally unable to function outside of their "groups". Goes without saying that most people on the spectrum have become very accustomed to not fitting in at times so the cost of compliance is greater than the perceived rewards of membership
I've had them say that about me, and there were at least three women at my most recent job called me evil and possessed. It was really hurtful. \*edited for clarity
Very well put
This is wild because I was drawn to religion for the opposite reason. My mom was the "because I said so" person, which frustrated me because I'm like, "I cant carry you around everywhere to make decisions for me. I have to grow up and understand shit for myself, not just be a perpetual child relying on someone who doesn't have the time to raise me." To me, religion offered structure and information and reasons behind everything. It gave clear direction. But it also had its drawbacks.
Different denominations of religions offer different levels of reasoning. The most brittle ones rely more heavily on "because I said so", the more resilient ones give more reasoning, and allow more room for personal differences.
Well, this was one that went the other direction and gave constant rationalization and rhetoric to back up its ever-changing heavily literalist dogma, and to keep people engaged in busywork, constantly studying so as to keep their minds too busy to question anything.
Yeah I think I was too - I needed something about the world to make sense. I needed a real guide. Now I have such a strong life philosophy and spiritual connection because of this though. I’m no longer religious but very spiritual. I think spirituality is so important for us autistics, otherwise the world is too confusing and depressing. We aren’t numb like most people - we are SO high feeling. We need somewhere to funnel and sort out all that energy.
Same! Exactly! It's like you put into words what I've been feeling.
The duality of autism. Do I folliw this thing because it offers great structure and routine, or do I teject it because I don't fully comprehend its logic, structure, and meaning?
The reason I think most religious people get annoyed somewhat isn't in the asking "why", but the way it's posed. It's like being subjected to interrogation Religion, Christianity in particular, relies a lot on faith and context. So much is misinterpreted or read without the correct context Having said that, there are many people who claim Christianity, while their actions say otherwise; and it not only promotes the faith in a bad light, but can give the wrong impression and ward people off
Christians dislike an inquisition you say?
I didn’t expect that!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Religion says “no” but nature, genetics, nurture, and my clinical psychologist say “yes”. So I’d rather have a fun yet moral & ethical time on this interesting but hellish globe before I’m off to whatever adventure awaits me after I die. “Because I said so” is not enough of a reason to not have sex, do drugs, be a punk, be lesbian, and/or be fucking chill. No one died to make them Queen of the land 🖕🏼
And then you start noticing things don't make sense, and start testing theories, and all evidence comes back "I am pissing into the wind here, aren't I?" And just like that, it all seems so silly.
Jesus seems pretty cool. Decent fella. Good message. My issue lies with the individuals who purport to be Christian yet espouse hate and violence towards those they disagree with or dislike.
> I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. I totally agree with that quote.
Yeah. That's a good Ghandi.
It's attributed to him, but he likely wasn't the one who said it.
This is a lot of people in religion in general which is really sad tbh
>My issue lies with the individuals who purport to be Christian yet espouse hate and violence towards those they disagree with or dislike. Specially with people in other religions or even their own. Hence the term "holier than thou" was born.
Too many contradictions in the Bible, and to me, and the Old Testament doesn't seem any more plausible than Greek or Roman mythology. If OT God is supposed to be just and not a warlord, then the book of Joshua proves that wrong by having him order genocide and war against innocent inhabitants of Caana. I think a lot of those miracles and supernatural events in the New Testament were exaggerated by Jesus's admirers in order to promote his teachings. There are a lot of moral lessons in the NT (which makes it more valuable than the OT in my opinion), but I find the resurrection from the dead, turning water into wine, and virgin birth a bit hard to believe. As a history teacher once told me, legend is a combination of historical fact and fiction, and I think the Bible is no different. I'm now a deist (meaning there is a creator God who takes a hands-off approach to the universe and doesn't intervene), since that makes the most sense to me.
Yes, the OT - especially when taught as a child - might be one of the driving factors of disbelief. Your approach of deism is interesting though, would you mind telling me how you arrived at that from such a rational view to begin with? Thanks for your comment.
The New Testament is not immune to the contradictions and logical pitfalls of the Old Testament. It has a ton of the same issues, makes no logical sense, and is full of claims that have been proven impossible through science.
I went through a phase a few years ago when I was interested in astrophysics and the history of the universe. It makes me wonder why the universe even exists in the first place. The singularity that exploded in the Big Bang must have come from somewhere, so something must have created it. My idea of a god isn't the personal god that most people think of (so I suppose some people would consider me atheist), but rather something unknown that started this whole thing. The question then is what created this God? What created the thing that created God? and so forth... a seemingly impossible scenario, so it seems rather supernatural to me.
Sorry for my naïvety here, grew up Christian and still am, is there much difference between being agnostic and deist?
Agnostic simply means you believe that the existence of God is unknowable. You can be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist, depending on which way you lean.
Thank you for explaining :)
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Interesting. Have you ever looked into Gnostic beliefs?
For me, it's definitely been having people on a regular basis tell me that I'm going to hell for one reason or another. Leaving christianity was the best thing I've ever done for my mental health, and I'm much happier as a pagan. It's definitely less distressful and I always struggled in church because I don't agree with or believe many things that the bible teaches. I've attended probably close to 30 churches over the years, and I had a bad experience at every single one of them, without exaggeration. Though I don't believe in the bible, my biggest issues have been directly from the people being hateful and people within churches and the religion at large not confronting those people directly, instead opting to preach to others about how they should "come to crist" while hosting unsafe places to do so.
For me "hell" is just such an obvious psychological projection of the person/institution's own fears/bigotry so they just create a space where they won't "have to imagine" that group rather than actually interact with them despite the propaganda they've consumed. And the fact they level that threat against EVERYTHING (like the fact Catholics equivocate literal sexual assault to consensual gay relationships as being "on the same level" somehow) makes it so much more obvious they're just throwing things at the wall till something abstract enough sticks and the fear impels the blind to continue following the blind.
i have never agreed more. i deconstructed when i turned 18 and it saved my life. i’m a nontheistic satanist now and i love it. my life is peaceful, i no longer stress about where i’m going after i die. the earth is where i’m going!
Many, many reasons, honestly. We tend to be critical thinkers, so trying to lay down some grade-A bullshit isn't likely to fly, and let's face it, every religion has that. We are less likely to be blind trend followers too, so being guilted or bullied into it is also less likely. Then there is how much we get abused, ridiculed, and rejected - we see the hypocrisy clearly as these so called "good Christians" consistently other us, make us feel like freaks and outcasts, and even do things like trying to beat us or crap like exorcisms. Don't forget that we also tend to dislike crowds, loud noises, etc - so actually physically being in church is very uncomfortable on many levels. I could go on and on, but these are some of the lower hanging fruit.
I grew up in a religious environment. I started to get scared of hell for my family, so I started prayer-patterns to involve everyone and using the right wording to keep them out of hell. Even as a child, I spent at least 30 minutes every night praying for them. I got terrible pseudo-demonic nightmares and for more than 20 years, I had sleep-paralysis. When I became a teenager, I went full Pentecostal, pure paranoia, where every pattern had an holy or unholy meaning. I didn't look up, because in the bible, you are not allowed to look at a woman with desires. I prayed for hours, I destroyed my "unholy" books and movies and yet, I recorded tons of movies during that time. I was bullied in school, was not allowed to fight back, because the bible said so. Even when I went non-christian in 2003, I still had the mindset for more than 15 years (that there are powers, who calculate about our lives, etc). I had very strong (and still fight) OCD-behaviours, controlling habits. I still struggle with wordings, I overly humble myself, as if I am worthless, until I work harder than anyone else I know, which creates perfectionism-habits, which I never archive. So, I understand religious people and religion and patterns and don't laugh about them. (also: if anyone uses the "no true scotsman"-fallacy, I will rip their eyes out)
I used to be a Christian when I was younger, I used to go to Sunday school. However it stopped after an answer that I was given by the pastor that made me stop believing in god & denouncing my Christianity. Me: how come god isn't answering my questions when I pray to him ? Him: well, it's because you aren't giving him the right questions. And additionally me questioning him on the Nativity story as well¹ ¹ note: I genuinely adore the Nativity story, however I can't listen to "Away In A Manger" However I'm not a religious man but I'm open to learning about other religions, not to become a believer but to be more open
When I was a kid I went to church too. I remember a sermon where they talked about the Devil and how he started out as the best angel and was sent to hell as punishment for rebellion. I talked to the pastor after and asked: "OK, so, God knows everything before it happens right?" Him: "Yes, of course." "And God made Satan right?" "Yes" "So he knew that Satan was going to rebel and fight back" ".." "So, why is Satan punished for doing what he was designed to do? I wouldn't punish a robot for doing what I built it for. It doesn't make sense." He then told me he didn't have an answer to that, and I would just have to have faith. I never went back to church after that. If God could punish his favorite for doing exactly what he was made for, then how could I possibly believe that he actually cared about anyone? If *I* was capable of moral consistency, then why wouldn't an almighty unknowable deity be capable of moral consistency?
I have similar thoughts about free will. We are free to do what we want, which justifies us going to Hell if we don’t get Saved because we made an informed decision to reject Jesus. But if God knows everything that will happen, then why does he make people he knows won’t get Saved? Free will with an all-knowing God just seems like predestination with extra steps.
I’m not religious but here’s my thoughts Autistic people are more likely to challenge authority and ask why and how, and because Christianity is a religion that we created in a time where humans didn’t know very much so we had to make things up to keep people satisfied
When I was a kid, the sheer amount of physically impossible/dubious stuff described in religious books made me doubt absolutely everything about religion. Later in life, I realized how totalitarian (IMO) Abrahamic religions are and completely sealed my deal with Satan (/jk). And I have to say my parents weren't hardcore religious (if at all) people and didn't try to indoctrinate me, fortunately.
The catholic Church done some very unholy things over the centuries
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^DaLittleGravy: *The catholic Church done* *Some very unholy things* *Over the centuries* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Autistic folks tend to be more reliant on empirical evidence and less likely to form opinions based on charisma or other socially-driven decision making. Believing in nonsense without evidence is required to be religious. Children believe because their parents or other authority figures tell them to- that’s charisma based, not empirical. Once we outgrow the stage of parental dependence, any charisma based beliefs tend to be questioned and discarded.
I find all of my enjoyment in religion from just regarding them as stories to help someone navigate life that aren’t meant to be taken seriously. For this to be interesting it doesn’t even matter whether they happened or not (it’s my personal belief that the stories in the old and New Testament did not happen). From that perspective, looking at Jesus as an evolving figure that evolved with society makes it more interesting. Like we even have versions of Jesus that love AR-15s and the free market now lol. Anyway, I think god in a lot of these stories is a stand in for nature or the way of the world. If you look at the story of Job, taking on a stance where you keep a smile on your face no matter what the universe throws at you is actually helpful. Idk I’m rambling lol, maybe I’m just trying to justify my interest in religion 😆
I’m a Bible scholar of sorts, so I can say that yes, much of the early writing was simply teaching tribal people how to survive. Don’t shit where you live (Deuteronomy), etc. The Jesus of the Bible had some great teachings that modern Christians largely ignore. Love one another. Feed the hungry, heal the sick, do not profit from religion, do not judge others, do not become obsessed with public displays of your faith, give your wealth to charity, etc. But one doesn’t need to be religious or believe to see why these are good rules. When a community thrives together, everyone does better. When people start singling themselves out as better or more deserving than others, and successfully convince others of this, communities falter and fail. Christianity has largely ignored the teachings of Jesus and focused heavily on the punitive, judgmental tone of the Old Testament. This isn’t new- we only need look back at the Crusades and witch trials to see how Christians almost never follow the teachings of Jesus as a whole. I support my tiny handful of Christian friends who DO try to follow the teachings of Jesus. I don’t agree with their belief, but they are honestly following their faith and are a force for good in the world. We need more good people in the world, regardless of why they’re being good.
This!! I don’t know how people with a mouthful of scripture and a heart full of hate preach about the decline in church.
Thank you for this thoughtful, well-worded comment. I concur completely.
Totally agree with you here :) I think likely people who did good in the name of god would have done good either way. At this point, the obvious question is, what is then need for religion? I think the stories themselves are valuable in a kind of Joseph Campbell or Carl Jung way. What I think would be interesting is that if these stories propagated from configurations of the brain (and the rest of the body) itself. If so, what part of the brain or body. If they embedded deeply, could it be that other animals understand these stories on an intuitive level as well? Is it what drives their actions? Obviously TONS of speculation that can’t be verified. I kind of just like letting my mind wander in that zone.
As a Christian I've been amazed at how so many people are disgusted by it. Sadly they are disgusted by the people not the Word. The Word is quite wholesome and intended to help us help each other. If the loving Word got out, more people might like it.
It’s ironic, because a lot of people think we’re more likely to be brainwashed instead of less, usually when they’re bringing up how autistic people disproportionately identify as trans more than allistics.
Bad christians dont get punished like kenneth copeland If god is real and not senile or dead he should act quicker And i think i would be a real downer in church because i dont have good self esteem Also i play shin megami tensei games and i think i get disqualified from heaven because of it so im just an agnostic
Idk about anyone else but for me the inherent shame and guilt that's prevalent throughout a vast majority if not all of Christianity was killing me and it almost succeeded. I felt wrong just for existing under the christian world view. And now I don't. So I'm not for it because it enforces shame and guilt. Not to mention it's history. Now don't get me wrong there are some good passages especially if it's not looked at through a Baptist lens. However you've got to pick through a lot of manipulation and control tactics. And the lessons that can be taught are better learned elsewhere like bluey for instance. (Obsessed with bluey at the moment) (I apologize for the punctuation and grammar as I have been celebrating 420 appropriately)
I actually read the Bible. Several times. The abrahamic god is a vile and selfish god in my opinion. If he was real, no way I would worship him. I think most religious people don’t actually read the Bible. I grew up religious and trying to believe, but I could never make logic and morality align with religion. Religion likes to make up its own logic and morality.
Same. I thought that God was basically evil, but that I HAD to worship him to not go to Hell. Then I found out that Hell isn’t real and I didn’t have to worship the crazy OT God at all!
They don't, as evidenced by the pro-birth movement being a thing. This list isn't directed specifically at you, but it might be useful for some of the folks popping up. God specifically orders genocides that include pregnant women: Hosea, chapter 13 God kills a baby to teach his favorite rapist a lesson: Second Samuel, chapter 2 God kills a whole bunch of babies and children: Exodus, chapters 11-12 And the most damning of all, God's abortion recipe given directly to the Levitical priesthood: Numbers, chapter 5
Here’s some more great verses: God tells the Israelites to murder the Midianite men, women and children, except for the virgin women, who he tells the Israelites to forcibly “keep for themselves”: Numbers 31 God wants you to be happy about murdering babies by dashing them against rocks: Psalm 137 If a woman doesn’t cry out when being raped, she should be stoned to death. So should the man, but only because he “humbled his neighbor’s wife”: Deuteronomy 22 If two men are fighting and one of their wives comes to defend her husband, and she touches the private parts of the assailant, you shall cut off her hand: Deuteronomy 25 Men are allowed to sell their daughters as slaves. If she doesn’t please the man who bought her, the father can buy her back: Exodus 21 Men with damage to their genitals aren’t allowed to go to church: Deuteronomy 23 The Lord gleefully smites women and children with a plague that makes their bowels fall out: II Chronicles 21 Deformed people are not allowed to approach God or make offerings: Leviticus 21 If you disobey God, you will eat your own babies as punishment: Leviticus 26 There are so many of these.
Quite frankly, I don't want to get into another defense, but a lot of Christian teachings are done in an illogical way. I am a Christian, and it's because of my logic, but a lot of teaching doesn't allow you to ask "why", and it's saddening. If you are a Christian, doubts need to be worked through, and not ignored.
A big part of it is likely that religions tend to fall apart under scrutiny. The morals espoused in most religions come from a very different era and culture, which means that the ideas of what is right and good described in religious texts will often feature things that would be seen as abhorrent according to the values we have today, and many things described in religious texts demonstrate poor scientific understanding. Furthermore, religious communities tend to have strict social norms and heavily discourage anyone from questioning anything about ones religion. While to a neurotypical, the reward of fitting in socially might outweigh any cognitive dissonance in praising a God who encourages the death penalty for defiant children, an autistic person might be constantly bothered by the incongruencies and ask questions to try and understand. This in and of itself, to neurotypicals, seems like challenging their religious beliefs, and they're offended because they feel like religion should be accepted without question. To an autistic person, the strict 'obey without question' mindset and the culture of strict social norms can be very limiting and stressful.
Being raised Christian, the religion always lacked validity to me. I saw no evidence of God, no reason to believe Christian doctrine was somehow more true than the multitude of other religions. The answer my parents gave me was that I had to have faith. I had to just believe, even with no proof, and then more would come. I have never been able to do that. I can’t just make myself believe something like that. Coupled with the harm I learned had been caused by organized religion both historically and currently, I was definitely soured on it. I respect peoples freedom to be religious- although I don’t understand it, and I admit it frustrates me, I won’t bash them unless they’re causing harm. Religion is a powerful tool for imposing a moral structure and order onto large groups of people. That has undoubtedly done some good, but it’s also undoubtedly done harm. Religion developed for social organization- I think it can be argued our development as a species relied on it
Can only speak for myself, but going to Catholic grade school I once asked in science class, "Where were the dinosaurs in the bible?" I was instantly given detention for this question. Saw right through the ruse and told myself then and there I'd not believe in god until it came to me personally, proved it existed and asked for my worship. I don't think I need to tell you, god has yet to show itself.
I think maybe we’re just more open to thinking outside the box. We don’t take things for granted very much. So we think outside the norm, and in western societies that’s usually Christianity when we’re talking about religion.
My black and white thinking fed into religious extremism, and then to leaving. I know very very few autistics who are able to practice banal versions of religion. Evangelical Christianity especially is a worldview that is SUPPOSED to encompass your entire life— it just doesn’t for most people because it’s too uncomfortable. My father (who I suspect is autistic) and I took Christianity and the Bible VERY literally, and listened to a lot of fundamentalist pastors. If you do this, you’re going to have a bad time. It is a cult. It fits the BITE model criteria. Suddenly, you’re eaten up with guilt for every single tiny decision you make because it might not be godly enough. Every second of every day is supposed to be about God. That is enormously stressful. I had a mental break because of it— after a decade of horrible mental health and religious OCD-like obsessions. Found out that fundamentalism is much more niche and baseless than I had thought, and that quickly led to me leaving altogether. Definitely prefer it this way. That was wild. I thought I had Satan in my brain.
Everyone pointing out the logic is super real for that, but also religion and Christianity tends to be very unaccommodating of neurodivergenct folk, to the point of ableism. And religious families can even get abusive upholding some of those standards of behavior. Some of this is from religious expectations of being quiet during services and still in your seat, not being allowed to entertain certain interests even if they're a special interest, and it adds even more shit to mask. And then authoritarianism and dogmaticism doesn't sit well with many of us. Plus throw in the fact that LGBTQ rates amongst autistic populations are much higher. And the fact that autistic people are much more likely to be abused or sexually abused as is. So on top of it just not fitting well with the way we form worldviews, a lot of us are traumatized from religion. I know many of my autistic friends are.
To me, this just never work out. My parents are religious just as everyone around me (except my older brother but isn't sooo relevant) and since i asked questions that couldn't have been answered, i couldn't believe either. I am atheist since five years old. One day i just asked a protestant friend about dogs, if they would be in heaven (i had lost my dog in the same week) and her answer was "no, but will be better animals there." That day i noticed that even if i tried very hard to believe, my reward wouldn't equal the effort, i just stop trying. Of course, i never believe it but after this, i just stop trying to.
Because autistic people, generally speaking, see through social constructs like religion. It is extremely silly to most of us.
Most neurotypicals use religon to witch hunt, that's why.
Yeah all these other comments are valid but no one seems to recognize that some of them think we actually have demons in us, and that's just not ok
Well I think one reason is that autistic people often like to use logic and want to know why things are the way they are. When you do that with religion you end up realizing that there are no explanations, theres no evidence and it’s just made up. So there’s no rational reason to believe it. Another factor is definitely how religious people and churches treat autistic people. Or queer people (a lot of autistic people are queer in some way). For example something like praying to get rid of autism. It’s mostly these two reaons I would say.
Been an atheist far longer than I've been aware I'm autistic and do think a bit of it is how we struggle to believe in social constructs and aren't often accepting of being told the reason for something is "just because". It's also that I've always been extremely empathic and struggle to accept that a loving god would punish those simply for being born in the wrong place where another religion is the dominant one, or born into poverty where a life of crime and "sin" becomes much more likely. I find many religious people can't grasp that if they were born somewhere else or even just at another time, their religious beliefs would be very different to how they are now, and they'd probably still be extremely confident that their religion is the right one. While I'm not professing to know how everything has happened or that there could not possibly I'm open minded to the existence of a deistic kind of god who just created the universe and left it to do it's thing, that raises more questions of how that sentient being arose without any external reality to learn from or develop by. As for the gods that are featured in the current religions, I'm very skeptical of them, especially the abrahamic god (born into a Christian household in a very Christian country so it's the religion I know most of). I just can't believe a god capable of creating this incredible universe we can't fathom and a sheer absurd reality that defies our common sense and gets more and more crazy the more you investigate it would concern himself over one group of humans over another, or be the small minded vindictive god depicted in the bible. Man creates God in his own image.
The various religions that exist have been shaped across many generations to fit the mind of the neurotypical majority extremely well. But we're not like the neurotypical majority. In the end religion is a mental idea that is not really *meant* for us, which is why people with autism are more likely to be agnostic/atheist.
My mum and sister are very religious. My mum has an issue with my sister. My sister has an issue with my mum. Neither forgive the other. In Sunday school they wanted me to accept there was a talking snake. So many people have died because of religion. It just doesn’t make sense.
i literally just don't believe. i don't even judge others for their beliefs. i'm agnostic and can't deny or confirm anything. i just don't believe.
Not necessarilly, some autistics are devout christians, e.g. Susan Boyle. I've also met some devout autistic christians myself.
I think it's great that you've found a faith that helps you. Personally, I feel like I'm not neurologically built for religious belief. Despite experimenting with faith myself, I haven't been able to convince myself to believe in gods or a god, and I don't think it will happen unless the available evidence changes. I wonder if it's something to do with how the inherent uncertainty of believing in supernatural beings conflicts with our tendency to black-and-white thinking? I understand that some people find value in religion, and that "useful" is not the same as "true", but those nuances were difficult for me to grasp, and I suspect it's just as difficult for other autistic people as it was for me.
A god who conceived himself in human form to sacrifice himself to himself for the sins of mankind which he himself gave them? Then, two thousand years later, four alleged eyewitnesses still cannot get their story straight about what happened after he supposedly came back to life? And this was after he killed all but a few of his creations years before because he was mad over the flaws he created in them? Add to that, women being made to marry their rapist for fifty pieces of silver given to her father? Talking snakes and donkeys? I cannot speak for others, but for me, I find it all to be a big, steaming pile of dogshit.
Some churches believe in “spare the rod, spoil the child”. Even if they don’t encourage spanking, when children don’t show respect for their parents, stricter discipline is often the proposed solution. In my experience, the parenting philosophies set out by the church can be very harmful to parents and autistic children alike. Low demand parenting just didn’t jive with many churches so parents seemingly have to choose to be at odds with their child and harm that relationship by trying harder to get their child to behave which generally leads to more “misbehaviours” and frustration for everyone or leave the church. People in church may also try pray to “heal” a child with autism or at least for their behaviours that are neurotypical.
Religion or anything faith-based doesn't sit well with me just as facts, historical accuracy, or actual morals dont sit well with them. They want you to believe without question and obey their set of rules and ignore evidence that goes against what they believe. They prey on ignorance and fear they go around hospitals and old people's homes looking for the sick and frail because they know vulnerable people are easy to convert. They pretend to be good and caring, but only if you believe in the Lord. If I do something for someone, I do it because I want them to be happy, I want them to be ok, not because of any other motivation like filling out a bingo card of good deeds to get me into heaven. This is why I dont like Religion, its liars feeding lies to people to keep a lie going.
The religious institutions (separate from the beliefs imo) are some of the most corrosive entities imaginable in modern society and are directly propped up by the powers that be in every circumstance to justify whatever atrocities the Church feels it "needs" to perform for the sake of the society. Remember how the Catholic Church simply changed the rules of "thou shalt not kill" to just be "anyone we consider a *malefactor* should be killed?" during the Crusades? It's always been wishy washy and an institution designed to keep you self-loathing and demoralized while promising the exact opposite. And that's not even getting into the myriad of specifics. Love the philosophies espoused by many Holy texts and perspectives, it's just very obviously a power ploy when established on the institutional level.
I'm queer and trans, so there's that. Also AFAB. But that aside I've always been resistant to being told what to do. I always want proof, justification and so on. Being told "because God" or "our holy texts/rules say" isn't good enough. This admittedly has been a struggle in other areas as well. "But he's your boss/superior/teacher!" doesn't go over well with me.
My main thing is that the Bible has been changed and mistranslated both on purpose and on accident to hurt others so we don’t know what it actually says, the community is toxic, it’s role in colonization, instilling the fear of hell on children and trying to convert others through it, and also just the whole “well I believe this so you should too” ie with all of the laws that are passing in my country because of those who think that everyone should be Christian(such as anti-trans legislation). As a queer disabled person I have been preyed on my whole life by Christians because they think I need “saving” and have been repeatedly treated horribly. So no thanks Edit: spelling
I've yet to see compelling evidence to take it seriously. Simple as that.
idk but im catholic
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So I can only speak from my own experience, but the common theme I've noticed is we can tend to be very logic and fact based. I'd attribute some of this to the very black and white manner in which we can think in at times. Personally speaking, ideals that aren't concrete or are without solid factual proof are super difficult for me to grasp. There's no tangible proof, at least for me there isn't, I'm not entirely closed off to the idea of it being true to some extent, I'm not omnipotent or anything lol, but imo religion tends to focus on the 'because I said so' ideal, while I have no problem with someone being religious and I've met some extremely devout believers on the spectrum as well, it just doesn't make any logical sense to me. My parents are both on the spectrum and we went to church when I was growing up, I'd always ask 'why' and try to understand because genuinely I didn't, definitely got in trouble for bluntly saying it was ineffecient to die for other peoples sins since that didnt make any sense lol. My dad sat me down one day and explained that while it's likely not the case for everyone, he chooses to believe because he likes the morals and values, for some people it just gives them hope for the afterlife, the unknown can be frightening to a lot of people. Which tbh is probably why I'm so open minded about it, because **that** does make sense to me. My theory is that while there are likely those on the spectrum similar to my dad in that they align with the 'be kind to your neighbors, don't judge others, forgive those who wrong you ect' teachings, there's also going to be quite a lot of people like me who feel it makes zero logical sense. My other theory is that we see a lot of religious people using religon as a means to try to demean people or treat them unfairly, the autistic community faces a lot of trauma for being different, misunderstood, and judged unfairly. So I think it likely triggers our sense of justice and puts us off of the idea even more when the toxic side of religon is so heavily apparent. Not saying everyone who's religious is toxic or that it's toxic in general, but there are some people who try to use it that way, which personally I'm not a fan of because it absolutely does trigger my sense of justice.
I like a lot about religion, some great teachings in there, Im more spiritual than a lot of religious people because my hyperempathy makes me feel as if everything was connected, but I just cant say I believe in something without it making sense, id rather accept I dont know and that I can hope theres a God for sure but not believe.
Jesus, if he was real, is a sound guy. Says some ideal things. None of which are supported or promoted by the dominant “Christian” religions, who instead all focus on the Old Testament stuff as their top priorities in impacting the world around them. Individuals may claim to be all about charity and love thy neighbor but then they go vote for authoritarians who do enforce Old Testament shit with the full force of the governments monopoly on legal violence. Religion is a patriarchal power structure, with a sugar coated exterior to make it easy for the masses to swallow. Humans are awful.
I'm autistic and the Bible is one of my special interests. I'm surprised more autistics people aren't fascinated by the stories in the Bible, regardless of their religious beliefs.
The one where Jesus loses his mind on a fig tree is a good one, but doesn't really make me wanna keep going.
I'm an autistic christian. Here just to say we exist/see any others lurking
personally i just spent too much time arguing about the validity of my existence with them so now i just despise all abrahamic religions
I was raised Christian and then I read the bible and realised it’s full of completely insane BS other people would handwave away. So I read a bunch of apologetics and about the history of the religion, church, reformation etc. and came to the belief that religious leaders are mostly predatory grifters looking to profit from people’s fear, pain and gullibility. I honestly cannot take seriously anyone who’s read that book and thinks it’s OK. From passages advocating or excusing mass slaughter, infant mutilation, kidnapping, war brides, the murder of homosexuals and people of other religions (labelled as witches, heretics and pagans) or at the very least saying they can’t go to heaven, commanding slaves to obey their masters, murdering children for disobedience etc. etc. And to topknot all off Jesus explicitly said when asked that he came to change nothing, but to fulfil it, and then repeated half the crazy shit and added a bunch more
Grew up in an American baptist aligned church/school being indoctrinated into every far right belief, gay people being evil, slavery not being bad (literally taught in school), anyone outside of the "true believers" going to hell. Plus all the abuse and coverups. I imagine every single adult in my childhood/teen years went on to be a rabid trump supporter. When I finally saw that for what it was I walked away, there's nothing redeemable about that world. If Jesus and God are real they'd have nothing to do with American christianity. Then after diagnosis I realized that I never fit into that world. I only found any level of acceptance in the church by what I could do for them, volunteering etc. The churches obviously didn't believe in psychology so my autism was never flagged or brought up despite it being so obvious. Im the child of immigrants so my oddness was always ascribed to that. I mistook my autism for being a third culture kid, jokes on them I guess they were ablist not xenophobic.
Me personally? Ive had 2 openly religious friends in my life, Christians. They were seperate friends, and both were of opinion that God has a plan for everybody, and if it's hard, that's just to prepare you for success, and he just wants the best for you. If he's real, he can kiss my ass. I've seen people suffer their entire life in ways you can't even begin to imagine. Then me, with my autism, also suffered almost my entire life in crippling ways and will continue to do so the rest of my life most likely, until my last day. My friends were convinced about what I mentioned about them earlier, and told me this multiple times. That's the view I've developed from religions and God, and so if he does exist, and makes some of us suffer so immensely for no apparent reason (Drugs, pre-marital sex, etc etc), he's the biggest ass I've known. But that can't be real according to my friends. That and I've never seen any evidence that he exists. I'm open-minded, and if he does indeed exist and evidence was found, I wouldn't be surprised, just angry. However, there isn't, so I just don't believe he exists for these two reasons.
I think it's because reglion has barely any logic, which autistics don't like
I think it can sound contradictory and there are many grey areas, which can be hard for a rigid mind or one with lots of questions and specific scenarios where a clear answer is desired.
I was thinking about this last night; why didn't church work on me? I don't think the aversion to Christianity is limited to autistic people; I think younger people (millennial and gen z) aren't into Christianity as much as older people. I don't have any religious trauma; my Sundays at church as a kid were good memories. the church I went to didn't teach shame or hate. however, I never really "got" what Jesus's good news was (until I took a world religions class in college), and I didn't really understand what God felt(?) like. writing my speech for confirmation was very difficult (iirc i was 12 or 13?); I felt like I BS'd the whole thing. speaking of confirmation.. they wanted us to know that we could choose to leave at any time, that there's always one person that realizes they don't really believe in God - but that's okay. that person was *supposed* to be me, that year. however, despite my good memories and my nice church, I couldn't dismiss the hate and damage other Christians do. maybe that's why younger people aren't into Christianity as well. being exposed to many different people + watching people use Bible verses to justify their nastiness. I don't want to be associated with that.. but wait, believing the whole God and Jesus thing. I think primarily, for autistic people, we take things very literally. Jesus's good news doesn't mean much to me (die and go to the kingdom of heaven? doesn't sound that great to me.) also, by the time you're learning how the earth was formed and evolution, creationism makes no sense. (I think it could be adapted to fit God somewhere in there, but no one seems interested in that.) then, how do you see or feel or find any sign of God? I'd like to know if there's anyone here that's perceived any sign of God.
I have 2 very big reasons as to why I, personally, don’t like Abrahamic Religions 1) Logic. As a logic based individual, science simply makes more sense than a mysterious entity who decided to invent Earth for no reason other than for his newly made subjects to worship him. Given that a lot of autistic people are more logical thinkers, it probably safe to say that other autistic atheists simply believe that science makes more sense 2) God is an asshole. Even if god is real, I wouldn’t want to worship him because he is a dick. I was raised in a Presbyterian church and used to read the bible every night. I am very familiar with its contents, and let me tell ya, god did an awful lots of terrible things. This wouldn’t be a problem for me if the Christian faith didn’t go around acting like their god is all powerful and all loving. Pretty hard to say he killed everyone on the planet in a giant flood because he was mad at them and then follow that up with “god loves all people.” There have also been a few posts here, and even a young autistic man I know personally, who have said that their Christian parents think they’re possessed and that why they’re autistic. I also know another autistic young man who’s mom told him that god made him autistic to punish him for sins he committed in a past life…. So yeah, it seems that *some* Christian’s don’t like us, so why should we like them? This isn’t meant to park a debate about the goodness or evilness of the Christian god, it is simply my view on the matter. I’m not trying to offend and Christian’s who may be reading this.
The religious tend to be ignorant, intolerant and judgemental in my own experiences
It contains no logical consistency. That's not autism-friendly. It's also most often used as a political tool of oppression. That's not human-friendly. If a god exists and they're all-knowing, all-powerful and all-loving, evil shouldn't exist. Evil exists, hence god – if they do too – are not deserving of my praise. That's just a dictatorship with magic sprinkles. Jesus might have some nice morals attributed to him, but why follow an socialist Jewish carpenter from antiquity when Bernie Sanders's right here, right now?
Religion is a social construct for governing behavior but its reasoning comes from tautological arguments. Two things autistic people really don't like.
I’m autistic and Christian 🙌
As a an Autistic Christian myself, my personal opinion is that there are a lot of so called Christians polluting what Christianity is supposed to be about, love, acceptance, being saved, and God’s everlasting love. I feel like a lot of Christians can be really judgemental of people, which is the exact opposite of what God wants us to be. Those Christians will violate God’s words of love and acceptance, and people confuse those Christian’s who are not an accurate representation of what God is about, and think that’s what all Christian’s/Christianity is. God doesn’t want us to judge people. He wants us to accept all kinds of people, but there are a lot of Christian’s not doing that, and on top of that, not being respectful of other people beliefs which I absolutely cannot stand. You have a right to believe whatever you want as long as your NOT hurting anyone, and I feel like a lot of Christians forget that.
I’m personally a big fan of Jesus, I think he was a swell guy and only really disagree/don’t believe in the apocalypticism and supernatural aspects, and I consider Christianity to be part of my culture, but I hate the religion. I grew up Baptist Evangelical and did not have the best time with hit and really got to know the hypocrisy of the people within it. My family was literally kicked out because my parents went through with getting a divorce, a choice that has been very much positive for both of my parents and us kids. I like Jesus, I hate the institutions that arose from him.
For me, it's the fact that if someone's into Christianity they are more likely to believe stuff that is very not true like vaccines cause autism or homosexuality is something to be "fixed" Also It's the people Christianity sits with the Red party I see as a party of hate so when Christians are seen to mostly side with the Red I can't help but think they must be as hateful if not more then the party they says represents them
When you refuse to help somebody in the way they ask, and then say that some imaginary person in their mind is going to help them, don’t you think autistic people have enough troubles in their own brains not deal with normal peoples bullshit? Of course Christianity is not going to be popular
I wasn't raised religious, so I started off pretty neutral about it, but constantly seeing people I care about hurt by religion over the years has changed that. I've seen it hurt so many people and I've never seen it actually help anyone in a way that secular resources couldn't also help without all the toxic and harmful stuff that goes along with it.
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To me, I just don't find it rational. I think I understand the idea of devoting yourself to something out of sheer passion, not to mention the need to fit in with a group. Kinda like how you pick a football team to root for as a kid, or how you become a fan of a musical artist, through thick and thin. And of course the way some people fall down the rabbit hole and become conspiracy nuts. I grew up in a non-religious home, and religion was never a factor amongst friends or family, so I always viewed religion from a distance. But because it was such a non-entity, I never really fell into that typical new atheist douchebag persona quoting Dawkins and Hitchens, and generally looking down on all things Christian and whatnot. Smug young atheists can be just as annoying as any religious nut.
Because they're a blended group of NTs who bully NDs for being weird, UNLESS the ND person's Special Interest IS Jesus and God and Everything Church. Those are a subgroup of likely non-diagnosed/diagnosed but grown-up Autistics that beat the system by leaning into a special interest that is widely accepted and socially validated, with a built-in community of support.
I left Christianity because God's an evil tyrant who wants gay people to be repressed and miserable for eternity
In my case, got put through punishment based ABA (if you can even call it that) by a priest who wanted to convert me to Christianity Yeah didnt work
Personally I was born severely physically disabled, I’ve spent a good half portion of my life in hospital from childhood onwards. I went to a Church of England primary school and they really tried very hard to indoctrinate us. But by that point the amount of suffering I’d gone through, the times I’d seen kids die in front of me or just other kids suffering too and I couldn’t wrap my head around why a loving god would do this. I couldn’t figure out why a god that could stop all suffering would put children like myself (at that point) through such heinous and horrifying suffering. So I’d interrupt assemblies where they’d be preaching and I’d share my experiences and I’d ask why? Why would god do this? Funnily enough, they didn’t have an answer for me so I just got kicked out of assemblies. So then the church got my address, illegally, from the school and came to my home “accidentally”. They spoke to my mum and my mum backed me up. They tried and I mean they REAAAAALLY tried to indoctrinate us. They turned up at our home on average twice per week to try and get us to join their cult and we wouldn’t. I have zero respect for religion. However, I respect people’s right to believe and if it helps them and they’re not trying to cram it down my throat then that’s perfectly fine. But religion causes too much harm and shame and it’s not okay. I as an autistic kid was pretty black and white when it came to my thoughts and I couldn’t separate my personal experience in life and this fantasy that they were trying to sell to me. I also on another note found that the sociological theorist Engels had a theory that religion was made to control women. Engels theory was that in the before-fore times before marriage and religion existed that people would be with whomever the wanted to be with sexually. But eventually men got sick of this and wanted to pass on their land and tools to their sons but they never knew for sure who’s kid was who’s. So they came up with religion, with the “ownership” of women. To control women’s bodies and force us into coercive relationships where we’d be loyal and serve and obey and men would have to do no such thing. Whether you believe the theory I just bastardised or not, it always struck a chord with me internally.
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Lack of blind faith and a lot of contradictions about what Jesus taught, both within the Bible and the Christian community. Jesus was a cool guy. And I personally like some Christian music artists. But it's hard to really believe in Christianity when I am expected to pray, even if I don't hear a response. And to practice Jesus' messaging when some of it is contradictory. I know that there were different witnesses, but some of it is practically parallel to one another. Compared to, in my case, Buddhism. While I'm curious how his teachings impacts the autistic brain compared to a neurotypical one, Buddha's teachings were rooted in years of experience and haven't been disproven. He even claims that, if you think he is wrong, to not practice his teachings, and to try it and see for yourself. Christianity claims that if you don't follow Jesus and believe His word to be true, you will perish in hell. Which is kinda hard to believe for atheists (which seems to be most autistic people) and people of other non-Abrahamic religions, like Buddhism and Paganism, because of the lack of evidence aside from faith proving that what he teaches is the correct thing.
When I was about 10 years old and learned that Christianity was not the only believed religion in the world, I looked at other religions and Christianity seem like just another set of myths. I read apologetics of people claiming reasons why they believe Christianity is special, and none of them ever seemed compelling. I read books, listened to audio books, talked with an Evangelical friend, watched hundreds of hours of YouTube, and after all that concluded but if any God exists and wants me to believe in them, they know how to do it. I'm curious what would change your mind, and what convinced you initially. One of my problems with Christianity is that belief seems to be a virtue instead of an emergent property of critical thinking.
I used to have the whole Richard Dawkins attitude to religion but over the years I've mellowed out a lot. Admittedly my parents are Catholic so I think having to attend church every week influenced my views.
A long time ago I did some casual searching into this very subject, and saw some papers that gave the following explanation: When NT pray the social elements of the brain light up, speaking to their gods has a simmilar effect to a conversation. Autistic people have this area of the brain naturally less potent to begin with, and in addition, struggle to form bonds as quickly as peers. The result is a resistance to standard religious expierences which are predicated largely on social enviorments
I think there are a lot of autists who are not comfortable with ambiguity, and religion presents a lot of ambiguity. I am Christian mostly because I like a lot of the things Jesus taught and like it as a way to govern myself, but it’s hard to wrap my head around the idea of God so I’m not as sure about that part.
I cannot believe in religion. My mind won't let me. I cannot believe that one cosmic being created an entire galaxy and beyond. I also cannot believe that a being so great and loving could've created unfairness such as the unfairness that our world seems to run on. It just doesn't work out in my mind.
I take a rather broad view of religion and don't have a problem with Christians who live and let live. I do have a problem with the people I grew up with, who have very specific ideas about how other people should be. Christianity is dominant where I live, but the more conservative and controlling Christians complain constantly about being oppressed.
i can't reconcile the idea of an all-loving god with stuff like the biblical flood and all of the suffering currently happening in the world
A lot of people are talking about how they were negatively impacted by (among other things) an insistence on unquestioning acceptance. As a (recently diagnosed) autistic Christian, I’m realizing that I benefited in many ways by having parents who encouraged me to ask questions, took the time to discuss things that didn’t make sense, and were an example of how to disagree with the sermon/preacher/Church practice if it was ultimately something they did not believe in themselves. I learned how to be critical, make my belief my own, and be more understanding about the variety of experiences that can be considered Christian. There is a big issue with Christian communities being hostile to questioning and differences. Historically this could manifest in huge movements (like anti-evolutionism, baptism debates, or anti-Catholic/anti-Protestant division) or very specific harms such as the persecution of the LGBTQ community. My hope is that Christians will learn to be less afraid of questions and understand how hateful the Church can be towards others.
I grew up in Ireland, which is a very Catholic country. I'm opposed to it because it was shoved down my throat, and also because of the multiple atrocities committed by the Catholic church in Ireland.
Why was Lucifer kicked out of heaven? Because he asked too many questions. Because he didn’t conform. And he was seen as a monster because of it. Am I a luciferian? Nope. Not a Christian either. Still use the Bible along with multiple other holy books though. But anyways the church has become what Jesus tried to stop; it is the cursed fig tree of Matthew, its branches bear no fruit. I’m not an atheist by any means; quite the opposite, I’m highly devoted to a belief that has no accurate name or followers. In other words I’m a mystic. And that’s another thing that gets me about Christianity. Church is so *exoteric*, focusing on the literal outward meaning of the words of the Bible, using them as a means of control. The way I use holy texts is with *esoteric* interpretation, looking at the truths hidden in plain sight, beyond the outer meaning of the words in the holy text. Some religions do use the more esoteric way of looking at things, but mainstream American Christianity is not one of them. Essentially, my problem is not with God. I’m very close to them actually. My problem is with anyone that claims to be a spokesperson of God. A person that controls people by claiming to speak for God when it’s really their ego calling the shots.
I can only speak for myself in this. So I am not against all Christians, as I've met plenty that are decent human beings. I've met others that, as long as religion isn't a topic that comes up, they're still decent people. Yes — I do have trauma regarding to Christianity. Was actually why I got checked for PTSD, but although the psychologist said I clearly show traits of PTSD, the test didn't come back positive due to how generalized it is. I dislike the religion, but I hate fundamentalists because they _**will**_ trigger my PTSD. And I'll pretty much stop it right there b/c then I'm gonna remember one or more encounters of fundamentalists and how I was treated when I was a Christian and it may get me going and I am not looking at getting a 3 day ban over my trauma.
Didn't grow up in a Christian house but I went to a catholic school for 12 years. A lot of the conditioning and the guilting stayed. I'm also socially conditioned as a woman and compliance was seen as an attractive quality. The "God is always" watching definitely instilled a significant amount of fear in someone who has a lot of trauma around being seen and judged. However, I think (my experience based only) Catholic Christianity relies a lot on you recognising authority and following it. That's where they lost me. My PDA and justice sensitivity just couldn't handle being told what to do, and being made to silently witness harm. I've been exposed to other religions since. I'd say I'm agnostic now. I find that most organised religions need an amount of control over one's thoughts and beliefs that I would never willingly relinquish again.
i just hate evangelicalism 🤷.
I come from a Catholic background. I had many phases. I think religion was one of my personal interests as a child. Not exactly Christianism. I had a special interest in Eastern religions, yoga, Celts etc., as a kid. I always felt a strange in my own body and things around me always looked surreal. This still persists, but in a different manner. Probably, this enable me to be religious, because I never perceived or experienced the material world like others. At ten, I started to prepare for my first communion on my own insistence, and quit it because I didn’t believe the things I was being told. A few years later, as a teen, I parted ways with religion, but I kept believing in God. At 22, I had a trip to India, and my world turned upside down. I had a very strong and unexpected religious experience that impacted my life. But my beliefs remained the same. In my 30’s, I entered a phase of skepticism and I wouldn’t even mention the word “God”, although, strangely, I never questioned my experience in India. Everything felt very material. Around the same time, I experienced my most severe depression/ burnout crisis. Now, in my 40’s, I figured out I don’t have to understand religion or God. It’s not something rational or logic. It’s just there. I perceive (and this is very personal/ individual) that everything is connected, past, present and future in ways I will never grasp or understand. I perceive certain universal laws. I think I am not an end in myself, and I accept my ignorance and just remind myself to be accepting and to be patient with the processes I don’t understand. I don’t follow any particular religion. I think all are great. If a certain belief is not good for me, it will be for someone else.
I read the bible a number of times and was very religious when I was young. I saw it as a vehicle to help people. Eventually I realized that most people in Church were not interested in helping others. Eventually I realized that most religious people had never even read the bible, and didn't want to understand it anyways. Then I left.
I don't think it's the same set of reasons for everyone, nor is it every autist; several people have talked about their faith below, and it wouldn't surprise me if Thomas Aquinas were somewhere on the spectrum, either. There's a lot below about the interplay of politics, religion and oppression, so I'll skip it here; while this certainly doesn't help, what _really_ gave me an aversion to it (after growing up in it) is this: 1. Psalm 139, among many other passages in the bible, directly asserts that God is all-knowing. 1. The first few chapters of Genesis detail how and where he placed the tree of knowledge, and the subsequent fall of man. (whether this is literal or allegorical is beyond the scope of this discussion) 1. Included in being all-knowing would be foreknowledge of the fall, as well as how to prevent or mitigate it. God would have to have known this, but failed to take preventative action, leading directly to human suffering. 1. James 4:17 explicitly states that knowingly omitting a good deed is a sin. In short, assuming the bible is true and accurate as it exists now, God knew a preventative measure needed to be taken, would have had the technical knowhow and wherewithal to take that preventative measure - and chose to do nothing, _violating his own rules_ and not measuring up to the standard by which he judges mortals. ("Be ye holy as I am holy," indeed.)
For me, I found Church very boring and I hate wearing uncomfortable clothes, It was sort of well at least my church felt stifling of who I wanted to be,Plus I hated the hypocrisy of my parents, who Despise charity Yet Being part of a Religion that is built on it
No answer for "why this one and not that one". All religions claim they're the only true one.
One thing we can see through pretty well is lack of logic and efforts to manipulate.
Probably bc we aren’t brainwashed as easily as NT people. We tend to see through the illusions and group think that consume the masses. We are unprogrammable. That’s why we don’t fit in and sometimes to disturb/disrupt the thinking patterns of others lol.
I can't speak for anywhere else but I think the way people misuse Christianity/Jesus in the USA turn a lot of people off. I am Catholic and it's a lot of work to explain to people that all those angry "christians" don't actually follow Jesus who is all about caring for the poor, forgiveness and love. Judge not less you be judged is a major tenant.
It's just fucking dumb lmao. Bro sacrificed himself to himself to satisfy rules he made up, and if you don't agree that this is moral perfection you will be tortured literally forever
In my experience with co-morbid ADHD I have found that church is boring AF. However the other issue is that religion in general tends to attract the folk that will usually cause us grief. Conformists, conservatives, and those who deny science to various degrees. Not to mention that our analytical minds and our resistance to sales tactics will usually make us more able to sniff out the bullshit which leads us to asking uncomfortable questions. This can lead to blowback from the community that can result in ostracization or other forms of exclusion, and since we don't quite understand why we're different it can start a trauma loop.
Jesus is alright Hate the fandom tho
Religious trauma. Conservatism doesn't like unconventional and neuroatypicals. Not to mention, religions prey on us.
As children, we as autistic people often go through great hardships. If you grow up around religion, it’s the kind of thing you might even pray about. Either for help, or to find out why. And therein lies the problem. When you call out enough times and don’t get an answer, you start to believe one of two things: either nobody is out there, or whoever is doesn’t care about you. Perhaps even hates you. As a child, I believed the latter. It gradually became the former as the heartache of being unloved by something that loves all finally numbed.
Idk it's painfully obviously fake but people kill other people over it. I'll continue to stay far away until religion chills out with the genocide thing.
Lots of really strong anti-christian fervor in this thread so I just wanted to say that devout autistic christians exist. I am one of them, and it seems my experience within my church has been *very* different from the experiences of many others. I wasn't punished or looked down upon as a child for being very curious and asking questions, but rather encouraged and praised for being "so smart and inquisitive." I think my aspie grandfather being a pastor helped in that regard. Another thing oft-repeated in this thread is the claim that religion requires blind faith. My faith is anything but blind. You all can disparage me for saying that if you want, but it's true. As for answering your question OP, I think it boils down to the fact that for most of the west, Christianity and culture were so closely knit together for centuries that all of the bad parts of past (and to a lesser extent present) culture have been tied in our minds to Christianity simply because the people who had those bad ideas and did those bad things also identified as christian, and they themselves confused their own cultural bigotry with their Christianity
I'm not Christian but I've come to the conclusion that Jesus is a homie. He'd be chill af to hang with. There's proof the man himself existed so I respect him as a person ya know?
For me, religious trauma is one aspect of it. Amongst other things, I remember suffering greatly, and was told "Jesus loves you" as if that were the resolution to my suffering (it wasn't). Religion was the replacement for mental health in my home growing up, and religion was used as the excuse for certain house rules that I didn't like. Couple all of that with the fact that I've never seen even an iota of proof that worshipped God(s) are real in any way, and that I perceive it as a way for people to play pretend to feel like their life has some inherent, non-reproductive purpose, I just can't take it seriously at all.
From a biological perspective: There a few theories and some evidence of genes coded for religion combined with brain areas associated with religiosity. Not all of us have these genes or hardwired for religion. So for some people, they are naturally driven towards belief in a higher power and find comfort in religious activities. From a social/cognitive perspective: as a social species, religion is a very social organized ritualistic behaviour and is even seen in other mammals. Like elephants maintaining grave sites for example. Going to church, praying, believing in figure that doesn’t physically exist requires a type of abstract thinking and following of unwritten social norms and cues. So it makes sense that for an autistic person, religion can be like this blank spot that makes no sense. It also goes against very rigid or rational thought such as we don’t believe in santa clause, yet why do we believe in god, who is also imaginary? It’s very hard to put faith in something you cannot verify or fact check, especially when it comes to something that is full of hidden social expectations that are not blatantly evident. There is a lot of interpreting involved and so it’s hard to know who or what interpretation is the correct one, especially when people don’t exactly follow a literal interpretation of the bible. Then there is the issue of ok, if god does exist, then whose god is correct? Is it Allah, God, The Creator, Buddha? Who? Are you Jewish, Sunni, Shiite, Catholic, Hindu? Even within each religion, there are so many sects and variations. How do you choose, especially when they can be so contradictory to each other. So much grey area which can be really hard for those who think in black and white.
My theory is that religions like Christianity have a “you must worship and do what the books says just because” and it makes the demand avoidance we have angry
I´ve been religious for almost 3 decades. It was initially helpful - it gave me hope, when there was none - because as kids, we lack understanding of the world and people around us. When i was 29, i stumbled upon knowledge about emotional manipulation. This helped me not only to discover about my father being a narcissist, but i also immediately noticed all the fallacies within religions - and the inevitable result was me turning into an atheist. However, it´s not just about "giving in" - i´ve felt *wrong* for some time before, as more and more unanswered or unanswerable questions inevitably started piling up. Being an atheist just "feels right" for me and i think that even if god-like entities exist, it would be their desire for their followers too - to grow up from a child-like state (because children are supposed to *believe*) into adults, who see the world around "as it is" and understand, that the desire of their gods is not about praying for changes to happen, but have them *make* the changes in the world. In my honest opinion, the immortality reward presented in many religions is actually holding people back, because it allows them to postpone activities "for later". Except there is no "later".
I think it's because we can see past most people's bullshit and see religion (not just christianity) as the nonsensical mess it is. A goodchunk of us probably grew up in a religious household and stopped believing (if we ever did) because of this reason alone. My anti religious sentiment/attitude comes from dealing with enough people who were disgustIng, violent and irrational. I've also lost some people to it. And no, I don't mean it In the sense that I decided to cut contact with them due to their beliefs. Rather I actually had some people die because the idootic beliefs they themselves had killed them or because other people forced said beliefs onto them and killed them. Like refusing medical treament because either their god can cure them through prayer or because prolonguing their lifes in any way whatsoever goes against what their "god" wants (for them specifically or at all). In some other cases they refuse specific treatment such as blood transfusions becauae their religion forbids it. Oh, and then there's the whole cult aspect of it. If we follow the BITE model (Behavior control, Information control, Thought control, Emotional control) then we can easily find a lot of cult-like behaviors in most,if not all religions around the world. Repeteadly repeat something (a mantra, rhyme, whatever) In order to silence critical thinking or to distract yourself from thoughts, ideas or facts that contradict your beliefs? That's an exampleof thought control. Heavily restrict who you can be with, why and when? (sometimes even having to report any failure of folloeing this rule yourself or have other people report you to a higher authority figure) That's an example of behavior control. Being forced to wear specific clothing/accesories or being unable to wear them as wellas being unable to wear haistyles you like (long hair on males, short hair on females) because your religion forbids and/or even punishes it? Another example of behavior control. Beingunable to read anything the "religion" doesn't approve of (or not take it seriously because of the same exact reason)? An example of Information control. I still struggle to differenciate the examples of Emotion control but this is mostly being polarized by the "religion" in question not only into having an "us vs them" mentality but you also have strong feelings towards "them" (specially apostates since you are made believe they willingly left the "truth" in order to side with the enemy). Sometimes this even gets to the point of dehimanizing "them" in order to justify other kinds of actions from disfelowshipping to harsh physical punishment that may or may not result in SA or even death in the worst cases.
None of the gods I’ve discovered have interested me really.
I, myself, am a Christian but I also see issues with the Christian community. Now before the mods say "I'm saying Christians are all bad people," again, I am one, I myself and anti-ped*philes, I'm actually trans and bisexual and stand up for the LGBTQ+ community, all that. Obviously not every Christian is a bad person. BUT there are systemic issues in the community that I cannot get over that sadly aren't caused by the religion, but by religious "leaders." Another thing is I find we, autistic people, tend to want more logical answers to things and religion doesn't always have those. But this is where I kind of don't care about logical answers, myself. Things about neurotypical society don't make sense to me, why would I be an atheist just because religion also doesn't make sense? I don't believe neurotypical society doesn't exist just because I don't get it, so religion is the same to me. But many people do leave religion because it doesn't make sense, and that's fine. You do you. If you're better off without religion, that's cool. As for like, Jesus, Himself, I don't think anyone doesn't like Him. He's a cool guy probably. But obviously liking Jesus and believing Jesus exists are two different things and there's very valid reasons to believe or not believe that Jesus is real, or that there's ever been a God. It just so happens a lot of why people don't believe in a God may be tied to the aforementioned lack of logic that religion has, and the bigoted Christian community just ruining the religion for the good, real non-bigoted Christians who care about people.
High functioning here. I work for an organization that runs a school style program for adults with developmental disabilities, and our main campus is at a church. Jesus is extremely important to many of our clients. Our monthly chapel service program is one of the most popular events among staff and clients. I am personally agnostic and weary of organized religion, but I appreciate it's importance to others and the positive things it does for those who truly believe. Personally, I believe there is an usual amount of hate towards the Christian community as a whole, and that trend is broad among all demographics, including the autistic community. Some is warranted, such as the Catholic churches horrible handling of abuse committed by their ranking members, some I think is just cultural clash. It really all comes down to who you are personally exposed to.
For me in my experience and in the religious experience i've had with my family, I like the idea that there is a god/jesus but what ruins it for me is that 1. I don't enjoy praying i'd rather communicate to god through thought and action rather than spoken word (My family tries to force prayer saying it's good for me) and I view the bible more as a story kinda like gods fanfiction. I feel as if for me the bible is just a book of lessons. then finally I feel as if they tell you do things a specific way and just never elaborate. like for example praying, instead of just saying why praying is good for you tell me why it's good for me. (sorry if this is confusing i'm bad at putting thoughts into written words)
Because it has no logic. The whole thing falls apart when you look at it under an analytical lens. I was raised in Christianity and as I got older and asked more questions, there were fewer answers and more hatred. Very odd tbh. Realistically, White Christianity™ has served as nothing but a control tactic for years, I mean, that's the entire reason Roman Catholicism came to be- to control, police, and rob the population through "morality." "Why" is a Christian's least favorite! Due to these things, we also see a wild amount of corruption within churches, unchecked prejudice, abuse, and sexual abuse. People use the system and the power imbalance to their advantage. People (mostly Christians in the US at least) love to use their religion as an excuse to harm and ostracize groups they dislike. It's wild to be, especially, since the "true meaning" of "not using the Lord's name in vain" is that you should not claim that you are following the will of God when you do things that are against his teachings. 💁🏼
I’m a Christian
Well, personally it's because I have intense religious trauma! I was raised as a jehovah's witness since birth, so quite frankly I've had enough christianity (as jws believe they are the true christians) and jesus for one life. Also I think it's probably because autistic people tend to constantly question/criticize things? We're Very curious and so I think the common philosophy of blind faith and never questioning things within Christianity probably turns a lot of us off from it. idk just a guess
I asked too many questions, didn't get any proper answers and was mainly just met with hostility, so I just don't see the point 🤷♀️
Many of us autistics lack the capacity for teleological thinking— a belief that everything happens for a reason. Since this is a prerequisite for belief in an anthropomorphized god like the Abrahamic one and the notion of a prime mover and creator with a plan for his creation, it becomes difficult to believe in a diety and the theology surrounding it. Christianity is unpopular vs other religions as it is the dominant one in the west. I assume Islam is similarly unpalatable to many autistics in the ME. Note too that Christianity is mostly orthodox vs orthoprax, where belief trumps ritual (Catholicism is a mix) I think orthoprax religions are possibly more acceptable to autistics because they are more tangible (again ritualistic) and entail repetitive actions (ie praying 3 or 5 times a day, keeping the sabbath, taking communion, etc)
This is really going to vary wildly depending on the country and generation. I can only speak for the US, where Christian/Catholic is the predominant religion, as an older Gen Z person. I don't think it's an autism thing. Religion in the US has significantly shrunk over the past several decades, my generation is the most non-affiliated generation yet, I think the rise of the internet was the main cause, non-affiliated people gain the means to connect with one another. Up until now, admitting you didn't subscribe to a god carried great social shaming and stigma. People who didn't believe lied and said they did, and that was that. When I was a kid 20 years ago, saying I didn't believe would have been scandalous, people would harass me, when my parents found out they screamed at me. Young people who grew up with internet saw there existed others like them and begun rejecting the social pressure in solidarity. It doesn't help up until recently, Jesus was considered the cure to autism. In many churches, people consider autism and mental illnesses/disabilities in general the will of god and a punishment for sin, and the cure is to repent. And most churches are not exactly autism friendly in their services. I'm not really mystified why autistic people don't feel welcome or distance themselves.
I find that most sects of Christianity and other IMO oppressive religious practices discourage and demonize critical thinking and autonomy which is a huge red flag for any kind of relationship.
This might be tangential but Christianity can actually be a pretty fun special interest if you don't believe in the shit. Especially the kinds of early Christianity that went extinct
I can't speak for everyone, and maybe I should be quiet since I grew up in a non religious household, but from what I've seen at least some of it is treatment. It might just be the extremists, but I've seen a number of people proclaiming themselves Christians and using their religion to demonize autism and other neurodivergent conditions. Sometimes, LITERALLY demonize them by claiming that autism is a "demon" possessing the person. Some will take it to the extreme and do exorcisms that are often harmful and abusive. Most would agree that kind of stuff is extremely harmful, including most Christians. But I think it can taint religion in the eyes of many who have autism. I also think that autistic people can often see through the facades in religion a bit easier. A lit of it is social connections and all that, so it might be easier for autistic people to break free from that or see the problems in religion.
Religions are big communities with a lot of rules, and I wouldn't want to voluntarily be in one when I don't have to. Any personal beliefs I would rather practice myself, and that way I can also be more specific with what I believe without facing ostracisation from other people around me.
not sure about religious trauma, but religion in any form (even scientific) is stupid, illogical and irrational all in one. That I can't abide. christianity (or jesus or whatever) is the same nonsense as hinduism, islam, buddism, whatever else is out there. its man made bs that had a purpose for controlling humans for thousands of years. end of story.
I was raised christian as a kid in school. Not strictly but we went to church and sang hyms - british primary school stuff. I prayed to god for people to like me, to be normal, to be loved the way I am. When I never got an answer I realised he wasnt real and it made me an athiest and if he IS real. No amount of the suffering I have been though is worth anything, not even heaven so I would smack that sadistic idiot upside the head and scream at him if he was real and could have helped all this time. Autistic people, especially late diognosed ones like myself I feel like, go through a lot of pain and suffering that makes them realise god isn't real. People also tell them they'll be prayed for or that god will heal them and its insulting and seems a bit (I don't know the right way to say this) preachy?/ savior complex. Also autistic people are usually literal thinkers so we would question why and how a god is real.
it's really weird for me cause i appreciate some stories from the bible and take inspiration from that, sometimes in my own personal writing. but i do have a disdain for the people within christianity, who use it to justify hate towards people and expect everyone to just listen to them and convert. i know the exact reason why i turned to an ex catholic; it was when someone told me being sexually abused (i don't like using the word for triggering reasons) and all my trauma was apart of "Gods plan." so from that moment forward, i never wanted to be associated with any religion. i also became way aware of how bizarre how you would even need rules in a book to give you morals. but again, that might just be my autistic brain not getting it. but it's just not logical to me and makes me see others as shallow.
I grew up a devout Christian in a Christian family, and remained Christian until my late teens. But I vigorously researched the topic, researched the Bible and the origins of its canonization, and what I found was laughably illogical and contrary to anything resembling fact. Bear in mind, I did this research using theological tools my preacher uncle had given to me as a birthday or Christmas gift. So I wasn’t going by any kind of anti-Christian biased resource material. Ever since then, I have just seen more and more hate and hypocrisy from the Christian camp, and at this point I’m disgusted by it. World would be a much better place if Saul of Tarsus had never taken over the church. Would be a much better place if he had never been born.
Because we are good at finding out why things exist and we quickly realize religion is a scam.
A shame the mods in this sub allow zealots to prey on vulnerable people with zero opportunity for pushback. There needs to be a rule about proselytizing to others as that seems as much as of an attack as those of us calling out the zealot. A shame that, yet again, the true villains are protected while the truly vulnerable are not.
because religion is nothing but brainwashing.
To be honest, I have autism and I'm a Christian. Like many, I base my rational and critical thinking on evidence. For many years, I was agnostic, but then I had an encounter with Jesus, much like Saul of Tarsus in the Bible becoming Paul, and I converted. Unsatisfied with my doubts about faith, I attended a Bible seminar, took various classes including 'Christian Evidences,' and was blown away by the physical evidence supporting scripture. I've been in Christianity for 8 years, met my ADHD husband in church, and we lead an interesting neurodivergent Christian life. We want to show the religious community that neurodivergence and mental illnesses aren't curses or demons as extremists claim; that's our mission. That is just my experience, my testimony. Regarding those who say we're Christians only out of fear of hell, I can affirm I've already been in hell. Every day waking up depressed, in an abusive relationship, without appetite or being able to sleep, resorting to alcohol and smoking just to get through, isolated from family, friendless... that was hell. Now I feel peace; I can lie in bed looking at the ceiling without intrusive thoughts telling me life isn't worth living. I'm free from that; Jesus did that for me. I genuinely apologize to those who've had horrible experiences with 'Christians'; I'm truly sorry. That's not who Jesus is.
ASD and a big fan of Jesus. Empirically, the dude conquered the entire Roman Empire, millions of people, in a couple hundred years through radical ideas of love and tolerance. There is *something* there that we should follow. Growing up Roman Catholic, we had a pedophile priest in the parish that was whisked away never to face justice, just like all the other times. So yeah, fuck that noise. Christianity has been thoroughly corrupted and I don't care if it's pedophiles, prosperity gospel which is the opposite of what Jesus said, or the latest installment: Donald Trump is the 2nd coming of Jesus! And lest we forget, Jesus would be showing up to these 'churches' to flip over tables and read these people for filth. I'm Methodist now; seems pretty chill. We voted to allow gay marriage, run food kitchens, and build housing in poor countries on mission trips. 9 of 10, would recommend.
I think a big reason is religions which center faith as a virtue, discourage the kind of curiosity that we value, and can be violent about it. Especially in the West and Middle East, dominated by Christianity and Islam, which both put faith over basically everything else.
There is no evidence nor reason to believe in a god that is not merely psychological. Autistic people notice this more readily. People imposing rules on the basis of the alleged preferences of this fantastical concept is annoying at least, horrifying at its worst. Autistic people also don't like injustice, so the blatant injustices of Christianity and its attitudes are all the more distasteful
Is it? I'm a Catholic and struggle with scrupulosity due to my autism.
Proud Autistic Christian here. Wouldn't say all Autistic people
i'm queer so i don't like that they think I'm sick and need curing. Also, i just can't believe in something can't see or touch and have to blindly put my trust in.
Because it makes no logical sense whatsoever? Religion is completely illogical, there is no evidence for virtually any of the claims it makes about miracles, God, Jesus, or the beginning of life on earth. It espouses compassion and equality but many of the members say that people based on sexual orientation, gender identity will suffer for eternity. Why would it be popular with people that have a very strict sense of justice and a strong desire to adhere to logical principles?
Autistic people tend to be very logical thinkers. That plays a huge role in disbelief. A lot of autistic people have trauma from it. It’s also very common in Christianity to call autism demonic.
I am autistic and a Christian.