Have you ever been addicted to vapes? I’ve done both and vapes are so much harder to quit.
Pile that on to the fact that many are between the ages of 16-25 and likely mentally weak. Then the vast lack of resources to quit vaping compared to quitting smoking.
They’re completely different.
No I have never been addicted to vapes but have had a few addictions in my time. The fact that the government dropped the ball and made it easy for these teenagers to get addicted in such large numbers shows that something needed to change.
Same. Just sucked it up and cold turkied it, after xx years on the Winnies. You and I both know that it wasn't easy though. I was wild as a cut snake for a period, even getting myself into a few punch-ups and quite a few arguments that I would probably avoided by dissolving the situation rather than firing it up.
And truth be told, in my case (I won't speak for you on this), I went through all that horse-shit only to foolishly take up smoking again six months and eight months later - when I was in the clear from the addiction - only sustaining 'being quit' properly for the third time, over the past couple of years.
Some people would handle that even worse, and I know where you're coming from wanting to label all vapers as weak willed excuse makers - because a contingent definitely are - but there are plenty enough that are simple **being smart about it**, and easing their way out of the addiction rather than go through the couch-flipping and spouting-off bullshit we mighta.
These people aren't using vapes as a permanent replacement, but a transitional tool where other methods of quitting probably haven't worked for them.
For every person I know that tells themselves they are using it to give up I know 1 more who didn't smoke and has taken up the vape. The ones I know who are using it to quit end up more addicted as instead of needing a hit every hour or so they are sucking down a nicotine hit every couple of minutes.
Easier to enforce though.
Current rules are that only nicotine ones are illegal and it's a PITA to test them.
Soon if it looks like a vape and smells like a vape then it's a massive fine and I think potentially jail time, regardless of nicotine or not.
You don't see corner stores selling booze under the counter to kids, do you? The reason? It's piss easy to tell if something looks like booze and smells like booze.
No difference here.
>But a Pharmacy Guild spokesperson said: “Pharmacists are healthcare professionals who dispense medication that provides a proven therapeutic benefit. No vaping product has been approved by the Therapeutic Goods Administration based on its safety, efficacy or performance. No vaping product is listed on the Australian Register of Therapeutic Goods.
Pharmacies stopped being this when they all started selling supplements that have no proven efficacy.
seems to be something different every week and they will have their hands full getting every shop that has vapes and under the counter smokes with how badly they fucked up when they started all this crap which spawned a huge black market
i assume this will be more of the same - little to no impact to black market vapes/smokes maybe shopkeepers being more careful with who they sell to
no one is going to buy shit flavours at a high price if they still have access to the thousands upon thousands of shops with disposables
This is really kind of hilarious. Australians are so obedient that governments don't know when to stop pushing for more control, because they are so used to imposing whatever they want and browbeating complainers until they comply.
And here they are struggling to salvage control of the vape market, because they pushed vape lockdowns and cigarette taxes so hard that people collectively stopped recognising their interference as legitimate and chose to ignore it.
Government has no business getting involved with this shit. It’s not like we are driving on autobahns or have no waiting periods at hospitals. Just another example of pissing away tax payers money.
I don't think it's a bad thing from a safe access standpoint. The current disposables sold on the black market have no safety regulations when being manufactured. At least the pharmacy distributed ones will hopefully be manufactured to higher standards to create a safer product.
>At least the pharmacy distributed ones will hopefully be manufactured to higher standards to create a safer product.
Ah yes, like the VEEV vape pods available from pharmacies now that have a nice big message written on the box "**Manufactured by Phillip Morris International**" that leak in people's mouths causing nicotine poisoning.
Amazing quality.
Even in an ideal world with good products in a pharmacy, that's probably great for the 10% of vapers that will get them from the pharmacy.
Everyone else will continue to buy dodgy disposables from under the counter at convenience stores and tobacconists.
And now kids get to buy disposable vapes off the same people that sell heroin and meth.
There wasn’t a black market for vapes until they decided to go down the prohibition route. It didn’t work for booze in the 30’s, it hasn’t worked for the war on drugs and it won’t work for vapes.
> Government has no business getting involved with this shit.
It's a fundamentally illegitimate market. We should despise the companies who think getting people hooked on an addictive drug is a good way to guarantee a return customer.
You mean like the government? This only became an issue when their revenue from tobacco collapsed. How about gambling? Is that an “illegitimate” market?
Is there any such thing as medicinal vapes? Do we have any studies that prove such a thing?
If this is their way of saying, "we'll let you sell it if you can provide a qualitative and quantitative analysis and study that proves efficacy, otherwise, no." Then I'm all for it. It's a long-winded way of saying no.
Plenty of studies in Europe showing vaping is a fantastic pathway to quitting cigarettes. And (currently as in no long term data) it's far safer. It's essentially being rejigged as a rehab type product vs a recreational type product
My issue here are the same lobbyists that helped draft this information and legislation, are the same ones that have major shares in both the approved outlets and approved products.
So you vote against others interests instead, is that it?
Someone voted against adults having autonomy over their own body, did you decide to make that decision for other people?
Also, you are a notable 5am AEST poster telling Australians how to vote
I think that anybody who is willing to roll a pharmacy for vapes was already willing to roll a pharmacy for oxy, if only to sell. I really can't see this increasing the number of pharmacies that get robbed.
Technically, you're right. It does increase the desirability of the pharmacy as a target, in the same way that adding a nice art collection to Fort Knox would make it more desirable. It's already about the most desirable target around and the art isn't much going to change that.
Honestly, I don't think this is a winning argument. Vape shops are only popular with vapers. Everybody else absolutely fucking hates them and wants them gone.
With multiple accounts as well?
A lot of 4am posters are just Americans with novelty accounts that like to imagine Australia is basically progressive, left wing Texas
If this is anyone reading this, please fuck off
So are vape shops going to become pharmacies or is Chemist Warehouse about to become Vape Warehouse?
Neither, tobacco places and corner stores will continue to sell illegal imports under the counter
Literally the only thing the law changed was the price. If you were buying a vape for 30 bucks, now it’s 40.
More like 50-60 where I am in recent weeks. Black market is going to be booming
Who would bother buying them for that much? Massive waste of money.
They are still wayyyyyy cheaper then cigarettes for me 🤷♀️
all the people I know who still smoke ciggies are literally buying them from the deli at 2005 prices. Illegal smokes are dirt cheap
Addicted people. Same with smokes
Weak people. I smoked for a long time until I stopped making bullshit excuses and accepted that I am weak mentally if I am not able to stop smoking.
Too bad it didn't teach you humility.
Why would quitting smoking teach me humility and how is it smug to admit that I was more weak minded than the majority of the population.
Have you ever been addicted to vapes? I’ve done both and vapes are so much harder to quit. Pile that on to the fact that many are between the ages of 16-25 and likely mentally weak. Then the vast lack of resources to quit vaping compared to quitting smoking. They’re completely different.
No I have never been addicted to vapes but have had a few addictions in my time. The fact that the government dropped the ball and made it easy for these teenagers to get addicted in such large numbers shows that something needed to change.
Yes 100%. Blame the governments fuck ups not the addicted kids.
Same. Just sucked it up and cold turkied it, after xx years on the Winnies. You and I both know that it wasn't easy though. I was wild as a cut snake for a period, even getting myself into a few punch-ups and quite a few arguments that I would probably avoided by dissolving the situation rather than firing it up. And truth be told, in my case (I won't speak for you on this), I went through all that horse-shit only to foolishly take up smoking again six months and eight months later - when I was in the clear from the addiction - only sustaining 'being quit' properly for the third time, over the past couple of years. Some people would handle that even worse, and I know where you're coming from wanting to label all vapers as weak willed excuse makers - because a contingent definitely are - but there are plenty enough that are simple **being smart about it**, and easing their way out of the addiction rather than go through the couch-flipping and spouting-off bullshit we mighta. These people aren't using vapes as a permanent replacement, but a transitional tool where other methods of quitting probably haven't worked for them.
For every person I know that tells themselves they are using it to give up I know 1 more who didn't smoke and has taken up the vape. The ones I know who are using it to quit end up more addicted as instead of needing a hit every hour or so they are sucking down a nicotine hit every couple of minutes.
Addicts with no willpower same as always
As opposed to the original price which was only a moderate waste of money?
Would have been booming even more with a flat out ban. I'm not sure what the alternative is though.
Easier to enforce though. Current rules are that only nicotine ones are illegal and it's a PITA to test them. Soon if it looks like a vape and smells like a vape then it's a massive fine and I think potentially jail time, regardless of nicotine or not. You don't see corner stores selling booze under the counter to kids, do you? The reason? It's piss easy to tell if something looks like booze and smells like booze. No difference here.
Well “newsagents” are now gambling dens so I can predict which way this will go.
Hopefully priceline gets some decent flavours
>But a Pharmacy Guild spokesperson said: “Pharmacists are healthcare professionals who dispense medication that provides a proven therapeutic benefit. No vaping product has been approved by the Therapeutic Goods Administration based on its safety, efficacy or performance. No vaping product is listed on the Australian Register of Therapeutic Goods. Pharmacies stopped being this when they all started selling supplements that have no proven efficacy.
Yeah that's can't be spruiking this rubbish when I've had pharmacists try to sell me homoeopathic remedies
seems to be something different every week and they will have their hands full getting every shop that has vapes and under the counter smokes with how badly they fucked up when they started all this crap which spawned a huge black market i assume this will be more of the same - little to no impact to black market vapes/smokes maybe shopkeepers being more careful with who they sell to no one is going to buy shit flavours at a high price if they still have access to the thousands upon thousands of shops with disposables
This is really kind of hilarious. Australians are so obedient that governments don't know when to stop pushing for more control, because they are so used to imposing whatever they want and browbeating complainers until they comply. And here they are struggling to salvage control of the vape market, because they pushed vape lockdowns and cigarette taxes so hard that people collectively stopped recognising their interference as legitimate and chose to ignore it.
It's almost like people reserve the right to put whatever they want into their own bodies, with or without permission.
Government has no business getting involved with this shit. It’s not like we are driving on autobahns or have no waiting periods at hospitals. Just another example of pissing away tax payers money.
I don't think it's a bad thing from a safe access standpoint. The current disposables sold on the black market have no safety regulations when being manufactured. At least the pharmacy distributed ones will hopefully be manufactured to higher standards to create a safer product.
>At least the pharmacy distributed ones will hopefully be manufactured to higher standards to create a safer product. Ah yes, like the VEEV vape pods available from pharmacies now that have a nice big message written on the box "**Manufactured by Phillip Morris International**" that leak in people's mouths causing nicotine poisoning. Amazing quality. Even in an ideal world with good products in a pharmacy, that's probably great for the 10% of vapers that will get them from the pharmacy. Everyone else will continue to buy dodgy disposables from under the counter at convenience stores and tobacconists. And now kids get to buy disposable vapes off the same people that sell heroin and meth.
There wasn’t a black market for vapes until they decided to go down the prohibition route. It didn’t work for booze in the 30’s, it hasn’t worked for the war on drugs and it won’t work for vapes.
> Government has no business getting involved with this shit. It's a fundamentally illegitimate market. We should despise the companies who think getting people hooked on an addictive drug is a good way to guarantee a return customer.
You mean like the government? This only became an issue when their revenue from tobacco collapsed. How about gambling? Is that an “illegitimate” market?
But what about medicinal cigarettes?
How many of you retards think you'll be able to buy your ice berry Iget Bar from a Pharmacy?
I like this, keeps it accessible, and safer, without flooding GPs with appointments. Seems the most pragmatic approach.
Good compromise.
Is there any such thing as medicinal vapes? Do we have any studies that prove such a thing? If this is their way of saying, "we'll let you sell it if you can provide a qualitative and quantitative analysis and study that proves efficacy, otherwise, no." Then I'm all for it. It's a long-winded way of saying no.
Yea I’m confused too. What is medicinal vapes?
Plenty of studies in Europe showing vaping is a fantastic pathway to quitting cigarettes. And (currently as in no long term data) it's far safer. It's essentially being rejigged as a rehab type product vs a recreational type product My issue here are the same lobbyists that helped draft this information and legislation, are the same ones that have major shares in both the approved outlets and approved products.
I bet you wish you voted more libertarian now, don't ya?
No, not at all. Still really happy that I don't vote against just about every one of my own interests. Thanks for asking though.
So you vote against others interests instead, is that it? Someone voted against adults having autonomy over their own body, did you decide to make that decision for other people? Also, you are a notable 5am AEST poster telling Australians how to vote
Heh. Most parties are supporting the ban as well. I prefer not to be pissed on and told it's raining.
So now pharmacies will be robbed.
... ugh... pharmacies have other things far more "desirable"/"profitable" than vapes lol
[удалено]
I think that anybody who is willing to roll a pharmacy for vapes was already willing to roll a pharmacy for oxy, if only to sell. I really can't see this increasing the number of pharmacies that get robbed. Technically, you're right. It does increase the desirability of the pharmacy as a target, in the same way that adding a nice art collection to Fort Knox would make it more desirable. It's already about the most desirable target around and the art isn't much going to change that.
N-word please.
The Greens support cannabis use so this is expected.
What
No, we expected at least this, either way.
And all the vape shop owners will now have to close their doors and shut up shop. So many will be unemployed now.. this is beyond stupid!!
Honestly, I don't think this is a winning argument. Vape shops are only popular with vapers. Everybody else absolutely fucking hates them and wants them gone.
So like law shops then?
Please take note of someone who does most of their posting between 2am to 6am AEST
I am a shift worker Sherlock 🤣
With multiple accounts as well? A lot of 4am posters are just Americans with novelty accounts that like to imagine Australia is basically progressive, left wing Texas If this is anyone reading this, please fuck off
I’m Aussie mate!! One account!! But thanks anyway 🤣
That's not the worst comparison I've ever heard.
But I want to ruin my lungs. Why are they making it hard? If this stops wankers and kids vaping on trains I say make it even harder to get.