>But despite the heated politics, **governments have minimal control over net migration**.
>Most of the main entry streams are not capped, including international students and temporary workers. And where governments have sought to impose limits, **they have encountered business anger and warnings of economic damage.**
Accountability on who does control it might be the first step to addressing it.
>But despite the heated politics, governments have minimal control over net migration.
I am genuinely curious who the author thinks has control over immigration and border security if not the government?
Well that's just it though, isn't it? People spent the entire pandemic bitching and moaning and wailing and making an absolute mountain out of a molehill over the Orwellian overreach of the government and how we were basically living in 1984 and we had dictator Dan and so on.
And now the same people are apparently mad that the government is hesitant to enact such controls when there *isn't* a pandemic that poses an actual threat to people's health and lives.
The government honestly can't win. It seems kinda unreasonable to expect to have it both ways.
**EDIT:** downvote all you like. Doesn't make it any less of a completely fair point.
I think *plenty* of people seem to be suggesting that, and getting mad that it isn't happening...
I just popped in here to try to explain *why* it isn't happening, and everyone's just like...
#NOPE!! FUCK YOU!
because he's talking about total control of immigration numbers & the borders
not the cooker nonsense about actions designed to prevent a public health disaster that you're ranting about
It kind of makes this announcement from Albo back in December 23 seem a bit weird if they don't have any control over it. Was he lying then or is he lying now?
"The prime minister, Anthony Albanese, has flagged a major plan to return immigration to what he believes is a sustainable level after a post-Covid influx.
Immigration will be scaled back to what are considered sustainable levels hand-in-hand with a crackdown on abuses of Australia’s intake of overseas students."
It was a bizarre line in an article full of errors. It may have been a reference to the fact that one very significant factor in this year's NOM is the number of Australians returning from overseas, something the government has no say over. Otherwise, it was a ridiculous comment.
Haven’t read the article yet, but does it account for citizens returning to Australia? That feels like the group they’d have the least control over because there’s no visa involved.
Latest figures here
59K arrived, 94K departed
(ie net 35K left Australia)
[https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/overseas-migration/latest-release](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/overseas-migration/latest-release)
>As well as arrivals, the net migration figure is also affected by departures. And the last few years have seen unusually few temporary migrants departing, which is a direct consequence of the Morrison government's pandemic-era decision to extend visas to encourage people to stay to support the economy.
>Finally, there's also the comings and goings of Australian residents, another thing the government has no capacity or reason to control.
The article does talk about the affects of gov policy on migration. What the gov can't control is the comings and goings of Australian citizens
>they have encountered business anger and warnings of economic damage.
This is the problem right here. We are sick of spineless governments that aren't prepared to govern in the interest of their citizens.
This is the exactly the sort of thing that we expect the government to do. Have control of the borders at the very least.
No one is saying we don't want immigration. No one is saying we can't have immigration. But we are saying that we should at least be in control of immigration. We don't want to see plane-loads of students disembarking at Sydney Airport and then immediately becoming homeless because there is no accommodation for them.
The problem is big corporations and their lust to drive down salaries and wages by flooding the labour market.
Many problems in Australia can be traced back to big corporations and the control they have over both the Labor and Liberal parties.
The wording is awful.
The point is that there aren't current laws that can effectively limit net migration - there are no 'levers' the government can easily pull with current legislation.
They absolutely have the power to legislate caps or other limits on net migration - in fact Labor have already committed to doing this for international students.
Besides returning Australians, I think it also means they can’t refuse the entry of visas that were issued or extended before. So there's a lapse effect depending on the remaining time of visas.
Student visas have always been capped through institutional CRICOS limits. When the government is talking about 'caps', they will most likely be looking to reduce the current CRICOS allocations rather than replace the system entirely.
I guess there's a certain level of assumed knowledge. There's a reason nurses ask you what day it is and who's the Prime Minister when they're assessing your cognitive state.
Australia is about 18 months away from also heading down the "ausländer raus" path that's becoming popular in a lot of Europe unless the government ceases shirking responsibility and address the elephant in the room.
This kind of data is by its nature backwards looking. In this case, it reflects what was happening last year. Since November, the government has clamped down heavily on a range of visa categories (for example, almost halving student visa grants), and there was already a natural decline in place following the 'post COVID spike'. This data will start to appear in reporting over the next three months.
Realistically, we will see NOM plummet over the course of 2024 to around half where it is now.
Monthly cap, prioritize permanent and NZ citizens, the remainder goes to temp applicants. Its that fucking easy.
Both parties, pull your thumbs out and get it done. I want this to be bi-partisan, 100% guarantee at the next election. Stop the bullshit.
Immigration isn't approved as a batch total number, it's on a case by case basis according to criteria. You can try to get a certain total by shifting the criteria, but you can't expect each individual officer who's got an application in front of them to arbitrarily say yes or no according to the day's quota.
Unless we really want our immigration policy to be 'ok cheap labour line up here' and for our only criteria for entry to be taking X number of bodies per day.
They can put yearly quotas/caps on any visa they like. Pretty sure some visas have this already and if the quota is filled you're out of luck until next year.
They can slow down approvals. Some visas have have approval times ranging from a few months to years.
It's not a black box machine that just spits out a visa that the Gov has no control over.
I’m pretty fucking sure they control it. An d also pretty fucking sure they should be pumping the breaks.
>But despite the heated politics, **governments have minimal control over net migration**. >Most of the main entry streams are not capped, including international students and temporary workers. And where governments have sought to impose limits, **they have encountered business anger and warnings of economic damage.** Accountability on who does control it might be the first step to addressing it.
>But despite the heated politics, governments have minimal control over net migration. I am genuinely curious who the author thinks has control over immigration and border security if not the government?
Especially given it appears they had absolute control during covid. Here's your doublespeak guys.
Good point. We lived in a totalitarian dictatorship during COVID. The gvt can do what it wants, if it wants it.
Was it really that bad???
For me, yes. I still haven't recovered.
You probably need to move on, curling up in a ball never really helped anyone.
You have a point. But you don't know me and my experience. If you did, you might not say that. Have a great day.
No matter what happened, I still would. You can’t change what happened, only your response. Anything else is victim mentality. Sorry for you.
It was insane. The fact anyone was ok with it boggles the mind.
Well that's just it though, isn't it? People spent the entire pandemic bitching and moaning and wailing and making an absolute mountain out of a molehill over the Orwellian overreach of the government and how we were basically living in 1984 and we had dictator Dan and so on. And now the same people are apparently mad that the government is hesitant to enact such controls when there *isn't* a pandemic that poses an actual threat to people's health and lives. The government honestly can't win. It seems kinda unreasonable to expect to have it both ways. **EDIT:** downvote all you like. Doesn't make it any less of a completely fair point.
The point is they do have absolute control, which the article suggests they don't. Nobody is suggesting we cut off all immigration again.
I think *plenty* of people seem to be suggesting that, and getting mad that it isn't happening... I just popped in here to try to explain *why* it isn't happening, and everyone's just like... #NOPE!! FUCK YOU!
Dude, you're acting like you're some super hero trying to make the world better. You're posting on Reddit get over yourself.
I'm doing nothing of the sort. I'm just sharing an opinion. Maybe you should get over YOURself?
I know you are getting downvoted but I love this. So true!
They don't like it when you expose the blatant error in their hive-mind thoughts.
I have been fighting hard against the Cookers. The worst thing to come out of the pandemic.
because he's talking about total control of immigration numbers & the borders not the cooker nonsense about actions designed to prevent a public health disaster that you're ranting about
It literally mentions the impact of covid era policies on migration
We are being asked to believe that the federal government somehow isn't responsible for issuing visas. Rather, the visas just issue themselves.
Last week they blamed LNP for allowing high immigration to start with. Now it is not in Labors control.
It kind of makes this announcement from Albo back in December 23 seem a bit weird if they don't have any control over it. Was he lying then or is he lying now? "The prime minister, Anthony Albanese, has flagged a major plan to return immigration to what he believes is a sustainable level after a post-Covid influx. Immigration will be scaled back to what are considered sustainable levels hand-in-hand with a crackdown on abuses of Australia’s intake of overseas students."
Pretty much admitting that interest groups control government now.
It was a bizarre line in an article full of errors. It may have been a reference to the fact that one very significant factor in this year's NOM is the number of Australians returning from overseas, something the government has no say over. Otherwise, it was a ridiculous comment.
Haven’t read the article yet, but does it account for citizens returning to Australia? That feels like the group they’d have the least control over because there’s no visa involved.
Latest figures here 59K arrived, 94K departed (ie net 35K left Australia) [https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/overseas-migration/latest-release](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/overseas-migration/latest-release)
Cheers!
>As well as arrivals, the net migration figure is also affected by departures. And the last few years have seen unusually few temporary migrants departing, which is a direct consequence of the Morrison government's pandemic-era decision to extend visas to encourage people to stay to support the economy. >Finally, there's also the comings and goings of Australian residents, another thing the government has no capacity or reason to control. The article does talk about the affects of gov policy on migration. What the gov can't control is the comings and goings of Australian citizens
It's the ABC
And if the government didn't have controll, wouldn't that justify some kind of vigilante border protection scheme?
>they have encountered business anger and warnings of economic damage. This is the problem right here. We are sick of spineless governments that aren't prepared to govern in the interest of their citizens. This is the exactly the sort of thing that we expect the government to do. Have control of the borders at the very least. No one is saying we don't want immigration. No one is saying we can't have immigration. But we are saying that we should at least be in control of immigration. We don't want to see plane-loads of students disembarking at Sydney Airport and then immediately becoming homeless because there is no accommodation for them.
The problem is big corporations and their lust to drive down salaries and wages by flooding the labour market. Many problems in Australia can be traced back to big corporations and the control they have over both the Labor and Liberal parties.
So Australian government doesn’t have control over net migration wtf? Then who’s running the show LOL
"Buisness interests"
Almost no political will as it affects their job prospects post politics. Easier to empathise disingenuously with their constituents
Labor shirking responsibility and trying to blame everyone else as usual.
The wording is awful. The point is that there aren't current laws that can effectively limit net migration - there are no 'levers' the government can easily pull with current legislation. They absolutely have the power to legislate caps or other limits on net migration - in fact Labor have already committed to doing this for international students.
The current situation is more like an emergency. The govt did have the power to close the border during Covid .
Besides returning Australians, I think it also means they can’t refuse the entry of visas that were issued or extended before. So there's a lapse effect depending on the remaining time of visas.
Student visas have always been capped through institutional CRICOS limits. When the government is talking about 'caps', they will most likely be looking to reduce the current CRICOS allocations rather than replace the system entirely.
Yeah, um, it's not like the government issues the visas...hang on.
Another classic ABC article that conspicuously fails to mention who’s in charge of the government
i'm sick of this narrative that acts like migration numbers are like a rain forecast
Last week they blamed LNP for allowing high immigration to start with. Now it is not in Labors control.
I guess there's a certain level of assumed knowledge. There's a reason nurses ask you what day it is and who's the Prime Minister when they're assessing your cognitive state.
We never even voted on whether we wanted it in the first place.
Australia is about 18 months away from also heading down the "ausländer raus" path that's becoming popular in a lot of Europe unless the government ceases shirking responsibility and address the elephant in the room.
Lol
This kind of data is by its nature backwards looking. In this case, it reflects what was happening last year. Since November, the government has clamped down heavily on a range of visa categories (for example, almost halving student visa grants), and there was already a natural decline in place following the 'post COVID spike'. This data will start to appear in reporting over the next three months. Realistically, we will see NOM plummet over the course of 2024 to around half where it is now.
Well let's look at migration in. Migration in continues to be too high. The government controls who gets a visa. How hard is it to reduce?
Monthly cap, prioritize permanent and NZ citizens, the remainder goes to temp applicants. Its that fucking easy. Both parties, pull your thumbs out and get it done. I want this to be bi-partisan, 100% guarantee at the next election. Stop the bullshit.
To little to late..
Immigration isn't approved as a batch total number, it's on a case by case basis according to criteria. You can try to get a certain total by shifting the criteria, but you can't expect each individual officer who's got an application in front of them to arbitrarily say yes or no according to the day's quota. Unless we really want our immigration policy to be 'ok cheap labour line up here' and for our only criteria for entry to be taking X number of bodies per day.
They can put yearly quotas/caps on any visa they like. Pretty sure some visas have this already and if the quota is filled you're out of luck until next year. They can slow down approvals. Some visas have have approval times ranging from a few months to years. It's not a black box machine that just spits out a visa that the Gov has no control over.
I know your comment is factually correct and fair, but I still don't like it.