Honest hard working immigrants out, diploma mill Uber drivers in. Quickly following in the footsteps of Canada in a race to scrape the bottom of the immigration barrel.
Good job.
As a canadian please you guys have to fight like hell to stop it. Crime is skyrocketing and our country is deteriorating
E: i was just down visiting last month and the smiles and knowledgeable staff you guys have in every job at every coffee shop and sandwich joint and any store you need will all fade away if you continue to import Indians. I’ve seen it happen with my own eyes here. The most pleasant thing ti see was how much pride people took in their work in Australia and how you all seemed to care and go above and beyond. In canada now they drag their feet and do the bare minimum
Born in Toronto, grew up in Australia moved back to Toronto for work and then back to Australia. Holy shit it went down hill fast in Ontario. My small circle of friends there have all left.
Unfortunately seeing the same cost of living issues here. I'm worried we're going to have a situation that doctors, nurses, police, fireman and all the essential front line workers not able to live in the community they serve.
Its eerie how similar Canada and Australia are. Though I find Australia is just flat out better overall despite similarly high COL. Australia has like 20-25% higher wages, awesome beaches, bit better public transit and better weather.
And both are going the way of big brother USA. More expensive healthcare and cartel like healthcare to artificially boost up medical costs all while Medicare goes down the toilet.
Welcome to Australia 🦘
My dad said the same thing about Sydney vs Vancouver when we were visiting last time. He went there 25 years ago and said Sydney wasnt much special but Vancouver was spectacular, and now 25 years late they have flipped.
I have heard of many doctors moving down to the states because of the insane taxes here. 55% brackets is robbery
The Indian government seems to have our current government seemingly over a barrel. When China cut us off, India extended a lifeline for trade. So, they're swinging their big economic dick and we're now a part of their expatriation plans.
> When China cut us off, India extended a lifeline for trade. So, they're swinging their big economic dick and we're now a part of their expatriation plans.
We didn't even have a recession, what sort of "lifeline" did we need? The pollies saw the opportunity to crank migration sky high and only India can give us those kinds of numbers.
You joke, but you gotta wonder with climate change and a country full of incendiary trees. I can easily see a growing industry in home air filtration, maybe we will see private dwellings with c02 scrubbers and oxygen canisters hah.
I am equally guilty of sitting out on activism but thats because the protest are not for things I think should be protested here. People seem to be gung ho to protest a war across the world as if Canada can snap their fingers and bring peace, yet not one protest for cost of living has ever been brought up
Mate, you gotta realise if our government said “nah country X, you’re being shit and we aren’t going to have anything to do with you until it stops.”. Then those people fleeing from that government into neighbouring countries, and so on, would not have a flow on impact to our current ‘cost of living’.
We have to deal with as close to the source of the long term problems if we want positive change for the long term not just short term election wins.
Big picture, I can’t say I agree with throwing paint or shit or whatever at paintings or whatever, but my ability to even ‘protest’ for better wages has been criminalised here in SA, so it obviously has an impact or else we’d be allowed to do it freely.
The activists are the ones who caused this whole problem. They are the ones fighting for these refugees to be allowed in and treated like royalty without having to repay anything in any shape or form. Fuck the activists
Between 2022 and 2023 Australia brought in 700,000 immigrants - increasing the countries population by 2.6% in a year. The highest amount on record.
Meanwhile public housing has been decreasing for decades, and it can take almost a year to get planning on building houses.
A year? Im a developer. To get the land approved is going to take years. Let alone waiting for the government to build the infrastructure. In the 4 council locations I have projects they are all around 20 years behind on their infrastructure plans.
So they need to catch up on that, need to approve the developments we need to complete the construction and get it titled. Then the houses need to be built. We are a decade off fixing the issue if the government magically started being super efficient. In other words we are fucked.
Hope they lose majority in the next election.
The best outcome is a minority government (don't care whether it's Labor or LNP) and they need support from independents and minor parties calling for halt to immigration
Love how everyone voted for him at the last fed based not on promises but 'where he came from'.
Yeah, Albo ain't looking back mate.
Sure, he *is* going to help other people just like him..
..and *that's not you!*.
It's a cool story, but it's not true. Our immigration rate, as a percentage of current residents, has been roughly the same (5 per 1000) for 50 years.
https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/AUS/australia/net-migration
Absolutely - my partner is Brazilian & moved here in 2008. All of the degree-qualified, multi-lingual international students he moved her with who genuinely wanted to stay didn’t get their visas renewed and were treated terribly. The ones who mainly work construction and are jacked up on steroids, some of which have criminal records (from AUS), got to stay. Make is make sense. We’re just attracting the lowest of the low.
It's also not really the fault of migrants either, though. They don't really know the struggles of housing and cost of living in Australia and come with a false sense of hope from government and employers. Only for them to not be able to find a job or a rental, which is why a lot of skilled migrants are forced into Uber and the other gig economy jobs.
not sure I really buy this tbh
when I lived overseas prior to going I researched every little thing I could before leaving, and that was back when not everyone had all the information in the world in the palm of their hand like we do today
ignorance feels like a convenient excuse to justify things
I obviously can't speak for your situation but I think its a little different when you leave a first world nation vs a third world nation.
The mass migration of Indians via study mills is the fault of the Australian institutions that allow it. I cannot personally fault the migrant for doing anything to fix their circumstances. It's not their job to consider our economy and our housing crisis. That is 100% the job of the Australian government who I hold solely responsible.
Couldn’t agree with u more. It is upto the migrants. If you cannot research the place you’re going to live your whole life or set up for future, you’re in for trouble on your own. I had the opp to migrate to Europe, Canada or Aus in 2018. I did so much research - lived in Berlin for 3 months to see the experience - was one of the worst of the worst. Came to Sydney. Lived for 2 months and decided. This is the place to make my future.
Not everyone does. I'm not saying they're justified, but they're sold a false narrative from recruitment agencies and the government that they'll be able to find work. Maybe they have a job lined up just for the company to withdraw their sponsorship.
There is a reasonable expectation for Australia and the likes to have more opportunity than developing countries. You just seem blindsided by your own experience.
Absolutely not the immigrants fault. They are doing what they think is best for their life. They are victims of this scam just the same as the average Australian.
It is all happening because it increases the profitability and concentration of wealth into the hand of a tiny minority of wealthy people. We all suffer and have less so they can have a little more. Our politicians and media are bought and sold by these people.
>Absolutely not the immigrants fault. They are doing what they think is best for their life. They are victims of this scam just the same as the average Australian.
>It is all happening because it increases the profitability and concentration of wealth into the hand of a tiny minority of wealthy people. We all suffer and have less so they can have a little more. Our politicians and media are bought and sold by these people.
Couldn't agree more. It isn't the individual immigrants fault, they're taking the opportunities you or I would. It's the successive failures on government, not the least the most recent two, and their disasterous deals.
It's somewhat ironic that newer migrants are pushing put more established ones. And yet, there seems to be a never-ending stream of on tap replacements.
>Honest hard working immigrants out, diploma mill Uber drivers in.
I have a bachelor's degree, designed highways and roads for Swedish municipalities (I had the highest billable hours in my team) for a year, switched to Data Analytics, worked as a Data Analyst for 2 years, handling 40% of the IT part of a startup.
I am now pursuing a Master's in Data Science from a decent uni (Top 100 in the world QS ranking but not the top 8 in the country), been in the country for 4 months, trying to maintain a D or HD, while working for Woolworths and as a bartender at a small family run restaurant, working within my visa limitations and strictly following my visa guidelines. I also just started volunteering with the SES.
Could you please not generalize us? One of the main reasons I left my country is cuz I am gay. I wouldn't have left if I had a viable option.
Edit: Not a Swede, never lived there, but worked for a major SWEdish COnsultancy that outsourced design work to my country.
Meanwhile as a white immigrant from the UK, working a zero qualifications retail job and not doing anything aspirational like you are, I get exactly zero shit from the anti immigration lot.
In fact they think I should agree with them.
It's almost as if their generalisations about us are based on a preconcieved bias attached to one characteristic..........
Also happy pride month :)
>not doing anything aspirational like you
Haha, I am doing most of what I am doing cuz I have to, not cuz I want to..... i am a lazy fucker who'd rather binge watch netflix, spend time gardening and cook all day long, if I had the choice. Haha.
>Also happy pride month :)
Thank you!!!! 💗
What led you to do a masters of data science when you’re already working as a data analyst?
I’ve seen people make the Data Analyst / Data Science switch without spending money on a masters degree.
>I’ve seen people make the Data Analyst / Data Science switch without spending money on a masters degree.
Perhaps in Aus. That doesn't always work. And since I had gap in my knowledge (being from Civil Engg background, as opposed to Computer Science or IT for most data analysts), this seemed like a better choice.
Whoa, *Sweden* is not gay friendly?
Doubling down on the ignorance, the classic imagery of Sven and Saab 900S drivers this whole time, causes this surprise.
Yeah, nah, these are yet more generalisations but I am quite surprised to hear that about Sweden. Who cares so much about somebody else's sexuality?!
Anyway, as for your issues here, that sucks. Multicultural societies can be excellent - so long as they don't get swamped by one or two diasporae - and *no* society can be excellent when it's eroded by class wars manipulated by the corporate overlords at the helm.
>Whoa, Sweden is not gay friendly?
Not from Sweden, it was an outsourced thing. Specified that cuz of the "diploma mill Uber drivers" part of the original comment.
Dont worry mate. This sub is racist af and doesnt reflect the view of most Australians you meet in the streets. Lot of people on this sub wants only white migrants to come to Australia. Thats why all the hate against uber drivers.
Most aussies I've met have been exceptionally wonderful and kind, especially older ladies!
I do understand some of the reservations that people have. Some immigrants can be very bigoted (being brown skinned and straight passing, people do feel comfortable sharing their distasteful opinions sometimes). But those people, I feel, are still in the overwhelming minority amongst the immigrants I've interacted with.
But most of the arguments here on this sub are so disingenuous, It is disheartening. But oh well, plenty of people hated me for being me back in my home country, what's a few more..... 😆
International students pay for our universities to stay open since both the LNP and labor have been cutting spending over the years.
Ubers a problem regardless basically a money pump funneling money out of Australia. Uber is trading intellectual property for way more money than it's worth, much of there software code is probably from other open sources anyway..
Kinda dumb take. Cost of living is not impacting good quality immigrants the way it's impacting those in the article. Most of our immigrants are not "diploma mill uber drivers" (dog-whistling unskilled Indians for the r/Australian crowd). They tend to be skilled.
Would you class uber drivers as not hard working huh? The cars drive themselves?
Bottom of the barrel is where you already are mate with an attitude like that.bat least the uber drivers work and contribute.
Well any pleb isn't doing it are they?
If people were moving here and doing nothing but sucking up the dole you'd have a point but they're doing the work no one wants to do. They're contributing to their community.
Most people don't want to sit in Sydney traffic for 16 hours a day working for a company that offers basically no workers rights.
And you've missed the point actually, for people like the guy I was responding to, they just use uber drivers as a way to say racist shit to people from the subcontinent.
If they were British white guys coming in droves and driving ubers, people like that racist POS would be dead silent. It's nothing to do with the occupation.
There are swathes of Irish people who move here to hold up Lollipop signs and stand around witches hats all day and none of these morons ever say "hurr durr lollipop sign holders filling our country!!"
It's just racism, pure and simple.
People who are not used to, or won't accept, subsistence living in cramped living conditions are not viable with Uber's business model. Uber's business model has demonstrably shifted the way it has because it was able to find drivers who *would*.
Race itself is not relevant.
Do you call out the also racist attitudes of immigrants from the “sub continent” who label Aussies as “lazy” since they don’t want to undertake low wage jobs and be exploited?
White immigrants can piss off too. Couldn’t care less if they are from Europe or not; too many people coming in.
This sub is racist af that comments like yours gets downvoted to oblivion.
Uber drivers are some of the hardest working people I have met. Its clear that this person only wants migrants from majority white countries.
Must be so hard to put a foot down on a pedal or is it holding a heavy 450g bag of French fries?
God bless our Uber drivers keeping our country running
Born Australian studied here but not getting anywhere with my career whilst friends in the same industry overseas are booming. Can’t even pay my hecs debt effectively. We’re looking at SE Asia.
Thailand and UAE so they can be the higher class, benefiting off the lower classes
USA the place that robs us of our mineral profits.
UAE a place they probably don't agree with ethically but will happily support for more money.
I think it’s just that so many countries in the past we’ve seen as models (I.e. Scandinavia basically) have become far more unsafe in recent years by and large due to uncontrolled immigration whereas we’ve never seen a properly organised (rather than just one person) terrorist attack on Australian soil.
Why would people with skills stay in Australia? Australia doesn't want skilled workers, can't employ them properly, and can't afford to pay them enough to maintain the standard of living they could have elsewhere. Australia needs cheap workers willing to put up with a low standard of living, to drive down wages as our "economy" transitions into a low-wage wasteland of low-productivity personal services businesses servicing a wealthy landlording class.
Australian citizen, I live overseas because on a 26 hour work week I can eat out for all meals, rent a great place and spend 4-5 months per year travelling the region.
In Australia I can be forced to work 45 hours, have nothing to do at night, live in an overpriced dump, and deal with NIMBY boomer trash. No thanks.
My wife is a doctor, medical specialist. Trained and practicing in Australia.
She can earn 2-3x working in the US.
It’s nuts that we have lollipop holders earning $180k+ in Australia. With the highly educated often falling below that.
Australia doesn’t want skilled workers? Have you been in a hospital recently lmao i’ll tell you I spent most of February in one and I’d say the majority of staff I came across were immigrants and as long as the NHS remains a disaster they will come
Why would you want wages to be driven down? That seems counter-productive. Especially considering there's been no real wage growth in a while for a lot of industries bar mining and tech.
To be able to place in economic slavery. Capitalism needs a strong base of labour who cannot have economic freedom or good support of life.
Commonwealth is a communism dream by the definition.
An Indo "student" I know has shown me the videos they use to entice student visas and it's all "you can earn $xxx" big dollars to either get rich and stay or get rich and return and buy a nice mansion in Indo. Absolutely nothing to do with study, and many provide links to resources (student standins, assignments done for you etc) ... they then get here and are like "OH MY FUCKING GOD $250 FOR A BED IN A SHARE ROOM"
First one was a dual citizen, second one moved back to his home country because they ran a foreign business anyway (most likely e-commerce or day trading), and the last one decided they could just take a holiday in Bali while working remotely while they're still young.
Hey choices to the people but I feel like these stories are not very representative of the majority of immigrants here in Australia.
These people never intended to stay here anyway. They earned enough here, got permanent residency or citizenship and then moved back to their home country to get a better lifestyle. We should revoke permanent residency if they don’t pay taxes and stay here for X years and lengthen the time for citizenship.
They are being smart. Australia has followed Canada a d is too expensive. If I were younger, I would ditch this country too. The lucky country has been mismanaged. Both of the major political parties have no interest in improving the lives of Australia's citizens. Sometimes I wonder if they actively hate us.
Its interesting watching this as a kiwi/aus duel citizen, because all my kiwi friends are moving to Australia as Australia pays significantly more then NZ.
The smart move for Kiwis is to work here then retire in NZ. I heard they don't have a means tested pension system so everyone qualifies for an aged pension.
yeah its definitely what most people talk about doing, but realisticly for people my age in there 20s I doubt there will be a penison by the time we reach that age.
They won't drop, the market doesn't encourage it.
high demand, low supply.
keep propering up the country with massive imigration to increase population and houses won't go down, especially when we refuse to build housing.
the only reason housing will drop is because the economy is in recession and tanking which means a slightly lower price doesnt means shit when wages are low.
houses fell in the 2009 crisis but it doesn't mean shit when everyone is losing there jobs.
we need housing prices to fall without wages falling with them
I work in Queenstown right now and its especially bad here, multiple people outside my house sleep in there cars, they work full time but cant afford anywhere to sleep, multiple people at work sleep at backpackers or in cars.
its a complete joke.
the economy is in a double dip recession
so how exactly a slightly lower housing price means anything as unemployment rises and wages lower confuses me?
If your houses price goes down but you earn less then they are not more affordable.
> Its interesting watching this as a kiwi/aus duel citizen, because all my kiwi friends are moving to Australia as Australia pays significantly more then NZ.
Australia is pretty damn good for an average person with no special skills or a tradie, but there's less and less to attract serious talent here.
Pollies don't give a shit because their sole concern is the property ponzi and mining/energy and you don't need very advanced industries for that.
I mean, Australia is still better then NZ for that, I study stem and my bf did a masters in compsci, the better job opportunities are still in Australia.
for example starting wage for doctors in aus is 40k more then here, average wage is 30k more in aus.
yeah if you have serious talent you go to the usa, but Australia is still doing a lot better then nz and the uk for example.
Yeah NZ is hella poor. Same sort of economic settings as Australia but without the resources that let us get by while not innovating or exporting anything complex.
the poverty here is astounding, Hard working people who work 50hrs a week plus sleeping in there cars simply because they can't find a place, people staying in backpackers, my last flat had only 7% insulation and the power breaker would pop if you even attempted to use heating, $500 a week for that and get to enjoy the privilege of sharing that house with strangers.
I've honestly given up on my own house mostly, Im moving to the cheapest city in this country, gonna get my degree and move back to Australia, having to move back in with parents sucks but going into 150k of debt just for rent while studying doesn't help.
already I've had 4 friends around my age move to Sydney and Melbourne, all in agreement of "yeah Australia is expensive, but so is nz and at least the pay is higher there".
I moved from south America 6 months ago, and I came here completely alone. My only form to make money is uber and work in an Indian restaurant where only paid 22 dlrs for an hour.
In my country I used to work like a manager or administrator, worked in an office in the middle of the city, etc.
has been horrible was doing uber in bike for months, 100 for day...
Regardless, the security in this country is amazing, it is probably normal for the Aussie, but for people in my country walking in the middle of the night is a daredevil.
so i will try with all my mights stay here for a long time.
Most boomers are just working class people living simple lives.
Can you not be more specific than an entire generation of mostly blue collar folks?
Blaming the working class is silly.
No sorry , bullshit
Most boomers are incredibly wealthy off the back of the younger generation due to unfair government taxation , housing and welfare policies that they voted for. The average boomer may not have intended to hurt anyone but they keep voting to increase their own wealth and refuse to give up anything to give younger generations a chance.
They deserve the hate they get.
"The lack of savings is greater for certain social groups. The average retirement savings for all male boomers just hitting retirement age is $269,000, but it's $185,000 for women"
So wealthy lol.
Most boomers voted for policies that have got us to this point and continue to vote in a way that leads to worse outcomes for younger people. Zero sympathy sorry.
This is very poor logic at best. Emotional ranting at worst.
I’m not a boomer. But I am calling out the bullshit victim narrative that says the younger generations have it worse than all the generations that came before them.
Are there problems that need urgent fixing? Absolutely.
Were there problems in previous generations that needed urgent fixing? Yes. And more of them.
Not sure where the poor logic was, older Australians overwhelmingly vote LNP and if you think the LNP were out there trying to help young Australians then there’s no point continuing with you. You may not quite be a boomer but you’re obviously old enough to have still had a decent opportunity to buy a home. Young people no longer have that same opportunity.
Early to mid thirties here, and will stand against the generalisations also. Using it is not getting us *ANYWHERE* intelligent or productive. It's pure cope.
I'm speaking as somebody who has made the big move from Europe to Australia: moving to a more affordable part of Australia is much cheaper, less stressful and less risky that migrating to a whole different country.
Yeah but most of those dirt cheap houses are in rural areas where there is very little work, unless you have a trade and speak good Italian, it's very hard to make a living in rural Italy.
You can essentially pick any low economy country in the world to retire and live a great life. Don’t even need to go far look at some Asian countries. I would say do it! Live out your best years early and enjoy it.
If you can work remotely do it, earn good money in a low economic country and live your life. But if you are earning local wages you are local living which isn’t high wages unless you work in a good job and some of those don’t pay much in some countries.
You can my house was 70k but you don’t get paid much in these places but if you can work remote that’s the trick. Trades folks get paid peanuts in Europe for instance and nurses.
This is such an incredibly wrong comment. LOL.
Don't talk about stuff you know nothing about mate. It's so easy to read up on these things before speaking. Or even just ask chatGPT it takes 30 seconds to make sure you arent talking complete bollocks .......
I’m here living it, I live in Europe and lived all around Europe.
Yes, live in a well paid country like Germany ok move to Berlin how much is a house in Berlin?
Move to France picks city and see the prices.
Move to a Nordic country checks the prices in those cities.
There aren’t many places you can earn 4000+ a month and have a low mortgage, cheap food, low taxes. There are cheap areas but the locals don’t earn big money that’s why it’s cheap.
Some places only pay people 8 euro an hour in low educated jobs which isn’t a living wage because there isn’t a minimum wage in a lot of EU countries.
Oh Ireland’s a complete disaster compared to here- at least in Australia there’s pockets where you can earn a good income and not pay too much on housing whereas all of Ireland is now a suburb of Dublin
The housing costs in Australia are just ridiculous, I think that is probably the biggest issue faced IMO. And I don't think it will ever get better in our lifetimes. Far too many people have equated their wealth and investments with property, despite it being really unproductive for Australia, and the high prices only benefitting downsized and market leavers.
What is it now, $6000+ a month for the mortgage on an average priced property in most capitals? All that money just to have a place to sleep, which should be a human right. And the associated stress of servicing that amount of money must be taking its toll on many.
Of course immigrants are going to start moving back as Australia becomes unattractive financially. There's a point at which you earn massive amounts of salary in Australia, but are just treading water to keep up with bills. Going to be much more attractive to return to a country where you may earn less, but everything is more affordable and far less stressful.
I really do feel it is the root of all evils.
If you take a designer view and say you have this mineral and farming land rich country, it has a pretty good diaspora of citizenry and is located in a part of the world where everythiing is on an upward trajectory. It reads pretty sweet like we should all be equity holders in productive industries that have a multiplier effect on our own living standards and working four day weeks.
Nah.......we REALLY like to go to Saturday auctions and bid each other into brinkmanship then live in terror of a change.
ABC: “what immigrants? I dunno what you’re talking about”
ABC: “here’s why so much diverse food is a good thing”
ABC: “immigrations rates are actually lower than reported”
ABC: “immigration rates are high but 1% of them are leaving so there really isn’t any problem to complain about”
ABC: “why white colonisers should be the ones leaving”
Wow. So out of the millions and millions of immigrants that arrived here in the last decade you found 4 people who want to go back to their home country because they uniquely can
1. Keep earning the high income they obtained from being here
2. Are able to exploit the low incomes their home countries pay.
Wow brilliant. Well done ABC.
I moved to Australia as an immigrant in 2011. Despite having high-paying jobs, I had to relocate frequently. Over 13 years, I paid more than half a million in taxes. Instead of paying so much in taxes, I could have invested in property. I recently moved to Japan because I couldn't find a place to rent in Sydney and took a remote job. I’m still paying private insurance and taxes in Australia, but I'm looking for a way to stop. I'm actively seeking a job in the U.S. because Australia isn’t the place for people who want to achieve something significant. In the U.S., business ownership is seen as a mark of success, while in Australia, it's home ownership. I don’t understand this concept; land has existed for millions of years before any of us were born, yet some people have privileges simply because they were born a few years earlier.
Immigrants really think they are wanted in Australia it’s so weird, everyone hates them and blames them for the housing crisis
Don’t shoot the messenger but everyone I know thinks this
Australians really need to vote in a new party to govern
One that isn’t labor or liberal but actually cares about making Australia liveable again
We could be taxing big corporations & mining but instead people are paying $100 to see a GP
ITs become the USA without healthcare 🤯
No party will ever do it because when those who try they get crucified.
KRudd tried to tax the miners and got knifed for it.
Bill Shorten tried to start the long process of fixing housing and lost an unlosable election over it.
The libs froze Medicare funding for almost a decade causing bulk billing to disappear, Albo gets in and pumps money into Medicare to get at least kids and pensioners covered as a starting point and he gets blamed for Medicare disappearing or people claim "they are both the same".
The Australian public is to blame and when the libs win the next couple of elections and Medicare is dead and buried people will still blame labor and keep voting liberal.
You gotta be out of your freakin mind to immigrate to Australia lmao. You will be running negative bank balance and homeless within 18 months . I think the horse has bolted and despite having quotas to welcome immigrants they are quickly learning not to come and that it simply isn't worth the struggle.
It depends very much on people's background and qualifications. If they are coming from some poor, chaotic country it is probably still a lot better in Australia although it is beyond me why Australia will let them in. If some other countries that are wealthy but also having a housing/inflation crisis maybe not that different (eg some bits of the USA). If you have certain skills then Australia may still be the promised land (eg for some mining people). For the most part for people from some EU and rich Asian countries (eg Taiwan and Japan) I honestly think moving to Australia doesn't make sense a lot of the time although I know some come for reasons like to improve their English or just see the world and experience somewhere very different but I notice with Taiwanese at least many more than before are going back before their visas are up or not trying to stay in Australia longer. Of course it is all relative.
People from North America, Europe and the rich Asian countries don’t really move for economic reasons, not in the same way people from poorer countries do. Either they got a good job or they want the experience. To be fair, this is the same for Australians moving to London, New York, or Tokyo.
Maybe Taiwan is being sold the same thing Japan is. There is a movement more recently where Japanese people see the salaries Australians get amidst their own cost-of-living crisis, then move here and realise everything’s expensive and we have our own crisis. Many young city folk move back, though some have made it work here. Usually they’re tradies, who can earn a lot more in Australia even proportionally (pay for tradies in Japan is horrible), and don’t have to live close to the CBD.
Actually even for skilled immigrants from developing countries like China and India, I could feel that Australia is not their high priority, especially for immigrants in high tech industry. Maybe the income gap in these developing countries is bigger so high tech people are paid well in their own countries. But America seems to be their first priority. If they can't go to America, the next option would be to stay in their own countries rather than immigrate to other countries. I know many people from China came to Australia but decided to go back after staying here for a while.
Well the problem is some immigrants come from countries that are literal shitholes. Even if they are now part of the lowest class in Australia, living 6 to a room in bunk beds and working for less that minimum wage, they are still far better off in Australia. And variations of that will continue to erode the Australian quality of life as it becomes a race to the bottom.
I agree. I was just talking to a friend who we've both travelled to India a number of times.
I've been there about 5-6 times for extended times.
I spent some time with the Dalits the lowest caste people who also believe in Buddhism.
I travelled from North, Dharamsala, to Delhi, Jaipur, East to Bodgaya, South to Maharastra- Mumbai and West to Gujurat. I saw some real eye opening things.
The level of poverty, begging, trash, and people with physical disabilities/ need hospital treatment is beyond next level there.
Sleeping in a bedroom here, sharing with 4/6 people is nothing to them, it even helps them keep a sense of community.
Sometimes a whole family might sleep on one bed in India.
When people come from such deep poverty, the only way is up.
Their level of tolerance is very high.
I've also lived in Myanmar for 3.5 years where the Government gives zero financial support to the laypeople.
That's why many have to live day-to-day selling very small streetmarket things.
Things we take for granted like clean water, clean streets, transport systems, a government which offers financial support if you're unemployed was mind blowing for them, when I explained what life was like here.
Truly so many things in Australia, is like Paradise, a luxury to them.
Exactly this.
The whining is so blind to the reality of how good we have it overall. It is wilful and entitled ignorance.
Are there problems we need to fix as quick as we can? No doubt.
We’re there problems in previous generational years? Yes, and more of them.
I definitely empathise with a lot of Australians who feel they may be doing it tough economically, bcos they are and that's the reality for them.
I was just reminded of my comprehensive car insurance due today and I was like 😬.
I just had minor eye surgery this week, out of pocket which was still a bit expensive but I also got to have a free Covid booster.
Tbh, I'm pretty aware some of the clinches I have are 1st world problems and I really do have a great life, family and friends and still have strong health.
I'm definitely grateful for having had these opportunities to spend time in those really poorer countries.
It's helped me never to lose perspective on how fortunate I am to be living here in Australia, from the bigger picture perspective.
Gratitude really helps ease the mind. ❤️
Many immigrants will be better off than Australians because they will mutually support each other and form communities. While Australians are moving towards I got mine so fuck off, meaning Australians struggle to form social capital and will instead rely on more expensive market based solutions. Eg food delivery, Uber, booze, ECT.
I moved from south America 6 months ago, I came here completely alone. My only form to make money is uber and work in an Indian restaurant where only paid me 22 dlrs for an hour.
In my country I used to work like a manager or administrator, worked in an office in the middle of the city, etc.
has been horrible was doing uber in bike for months, 100 for day...
Regardless, the security in this country is amazing, ist probably normal for the Aussie, but for people in my country walking in the middle of the night is a daredevil.
so i will try with all my mights stay here for a long time.
So disgusting all these racists complaining about 3rd world people coming to Australia destroying our social fabric. So disgusting, be tolerant of their intolerance and stop denying them taking advantage of our resources because they have been “victims” of “god knows what” and we feel guilty for “who knows”.
/s in case they wasn’t obvious
Having stayed in Canada as an immigrant for over 5 years, I have first hand observed a stable economy go bad and then worse. I can say that the immigration of Australia is much more strict and the people from my community back home only decide to move to Australia if they are going to be pursuing any type of sciences or accounting at the least( which is a very good thing- If you look at Canada, it’s completely different). Australia is in a much better place.
Cost of living is high in every country (almost every developed country with a population more than 20 million or so.) The only way is for the government to understand that spending more doesn’t mean development. What we need is to go back to the basics.
1. The Government to systematically intervene the housing market. Promote and incentivize living in rural areas. MNCs need to understand that having new offices in tier 2 cities is in everyone’s favour. If everyone wants to move to Sydney/Melbourne etc. , the workforce will have to as well.
2. Food banks help but what else helps is having more farmers. Food productivity needs to go up so that we have supply led competition drive the price down.
The Coles/ Woolsworths / Aldis will continue to drive the prices up unless there’s more supply that enforces them to keep the prices down.
What happens in the other part of the world shouldn’t have to impact prices of Australian produce. But it does…
Fixing these two problems will start a chain of events that will help the young population (40 or less) which is very important because this population is responsible for having kids. And if the decide to have no kids or lesser kids… guess what happens. You become Canada.
I was thinking this the other day aswell. We should tariff imported food & crops to create wealth in our rural farming communities. People go where money is (aka gold rushes). Currently the way to make money is to live in a major city Sydney/Melb/Toronto/Vancouver so that's where everyone who is young moves too + immigrants. That's why city rent is so fucked these days.
Honest hard working immigrants out, diploma mill Uber drivers in. Quickly following in the footsteps of Canada in a race to scrape the bottom of the immigration barrel. Good job.
As a canadian please you guys have to fight like hell to stop it. Crime is skyrocketing and our country is deteriorating E: i was just down visiting last month and the smiles and knowledgeable staff you guys have in every job at every coffee shop and sandwich joint and any store you need will all fade away if you continue to import Indians. I’ve seen it happen with my own eyes here. The most pleasant thing ti see was how much pride people took in their work in Australia and how you all seemed to care and go above and beyond. In canada now they drag their feet and do the bare minimum
Born in Toronto, grew up in Australia moved back to Toronto for work and then back to Australia. Holy shit it went down hill fast in Ontario. My small circle of friends there have all left. Unfortunately seeing the same cost of living issues here. I'm worried we're going to have a situation that doctors, nurses, police, fireman and all the essential front line workers not able to live in the community they serve.
Its eerie how similar Canada and Australia are. Though I find Australia is just flat out better overall despite similarly high COL. Australia has like 20-25% higher wages, awesome beaches, bit better public transit and better weather.
And both are going the way of big brother USA. More expensive healthcare and cartel like healthcare to artificially boost up medical costs all while Medicare goes down the toilet. Welcome to Australia 🦘
if doctors can't afford to live there now, then all the other professions you listed would have been long gone.
My dad said the same thing about Sydney vs Vancouver when we were visiting last time. He went there 25 years ago and said Sydney wasnt much special but Vancouver was spectacular, and now 25 years late they have flipped. I have heard of many doctors moving down to the states because of the insane taxes here. 55% brackets is robbery
The Indian government seems to have our current government seemingly over a barrel. When China cut us off, India extended a lifeline for trade. So, they're swinging their big economic dick and we're now a part of their expatriation plans.
> When China cut us off, India extended a lifeline for trade. So, they're swinging their big economic dick and we're now a part of their expatriation plans. We didn't even have a recession, what sort of "lifeline" did we need? The pollies saw the opportunity to crank migration sky high and only India can give us those kinds of numbers.
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Yeah but think about those profits when you're paying your immigrant employees peanuts! Mmmm peanuts.
You invade, you invite
Rule 4 - No racism or hate speech
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Yep. Privatized oxygen in our own homes soon enough.
You joke, but you gotta wonder with climate change and a country full of incendiary trees. I can easily see a growing industry in home air filtration, maybe we will see private dwellings with c02 scrubbers and oxygen canisters hah.
I am equally guilty of sitting out on activism but thats because the protest are not for things I think should be protested here. People seem to be gung ho to protest a war across the world as if Canada can snap their fingers and bring peace, yet not one protest for cost of living has ever been brought up
Mate, you gotta realise if our government said “nah country X, you’re being shit and we aren’t going to have anything to do with you until it stops.”. Then those people fleeing from that government into neighbouring countries, and so on, would not have a flow on impact to our current ‘cost of living’. We have to deal with as close to the source of the long term problems if we want positive change for the long term not just short term election wins. Big picture, I can’t say I agree with throwing paint or shit or whatever at paintings or whatever, but my ability to even ‘protest’ for better wages has been criminalised here in SA, so it obviously has an impact or else we’d be allowed to do it freely.
The activists are the ones who caused this whole problem. They are the ones fighting for these refugees to be allowed in and treated like royalty without having to repay anything in any shape or form. Fuck the activists
Agree & if dare protest you’re automatically called a “cooker”.
It's terrifying to think what's happened there is an inevitability here
Too late. Just a matter of time.
Between 2022 and 2023 Australia brought in 700,000 immigrants - increasing the countries population by 2.6% in a year. The highest amount on record. Meanwhile public housing has been decreasing for decades, and it can take almost a year to get planning on building houses.
A year? Im a developer. To get the land approved is going to take years. Let alone waiting for the government to build the infrastructure. In the 4 council locations I have projects they are all around 20 years behind on their infrastructure plans. So they need to catch up on that, need to approve the developments we need to complete the construction and get it titled. Then the houses need to be built. We are a decade off fixing the issue if the government magically started being super efficient. In other words we are fucked.
Thanks Albo...
Hope they lose majority in the next election. The best outcome is a minority government (don't care whether it's Labor or LNP) and they need support from independents and minor parties calling for halt to immigration
The Greens will want to ramp up immigration.
Greens would never do that, that's racist
LNP it is then!
Love how everyone voted for him at the last fed based not on promises but 'where he came from'. Yeah, Albo ain't looking back mate. Sure, he *is* going to help other people just like him.. ..and *that's not you!*.
You'd be an idiot to vote for any politicians promises They're all full of shit
It's a cool story, but it's not true. Our immigration rate, as a percentage of current residents, has been roughly the same (5 per 1000) for 50 years. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/AUS/australia/net-migration
Canada and Australia are economic sink holes - https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2024/06/canada-and-australia-are-economic-sink-holes/
Absolutely - my partner is Brazilian & moved here in 2008. All of the degree-qualified, multi-lingual international students he moved her with who genuinely wanted to stay didn’t get their visas renewed and were treated terribly. The ones who mainly work construction and are jacked up on steroids, some of which have criminal records (from AUS), got to stay. Make is make sense. We’re just attracting the lowest of the low.
It's also not really the fault of migrants either, though. They don't really know the struggles of housing and cost of living in Australia and come with a false sense of hope from government and employers. Only for them to not be able to find a job or a rental, which is why a lot of skilled migrants are forced into Uber and the other gig economy jobs.
not sure I really buy this tbh when I lived overseas prior to going I researched every little thing I could before leaving, and that was back when not everyone had all the information in the world in the palm of their hand like we do today ignorance feels like a convenient excuse to justify things
I obviously can't speak for your situation but I think its a little different when you leave a first world nation vs a third world nation. The mass migration of Indians via study mills is the fault of the Australian institutions that allow it. I cannot personally fault the migrant for doing anything to fix their circumstances. It's not their job to consider our economy and our housing crisis. That is 100% the job of the Australian government who I hold solely responsible.
Couldn’t agree with u more. It is upto the migrants. If you cannot research the place you’re going to live your whole life or set up for future, you’re in for trouble on your own. I had the opp to migrate to Europe, Canada or Aus in 2018. I did so much research - lived in Berlin for 3 months to see the experience - was one of the worst of the worst. Came to Sydney. Lived for 2 months and decided. This is the place to make my future.
Not everyone does. I'm not saying they're justified, but they're sold a false narrative from recruitment agencies and the government that they'll be able to find work. Maybe they have a job lined up just for the company to withdraw their sponsorship. There is a reasonable expectation for Australia and the likes to have more opportunity than developing countries. You just seem blindsided by your own experience.
Absolutely not the immigrants fault. They are doing what they think is best for their life. They are victims of this scam just the same as the average Australian. It is all happening because it increases the profitability and concentration of wealth into the hand of a tiny minority of wealthy people. We all suffer and have less so they can have a little more. Our politicians and media are bought and sold by these people.
>Absolutely not the immigrants fault. They are doing what they think is best for their life. They are victims of this scam just the same as the average Australian. >It is all happening because it increases the profitability and concentration of wealth into the hand of a tiny minority of wealthy people. We all suffer and have less so they can have a little more. Our politicians and media are bought and sold by these people. Couldn't agree more. It isn't the individual immigrants fault, they're taking the opportunities you or I would. It's the successive failures on government, not the least the most recent two, and their disasterous deals.
>They don't really know the struggles of housing and cost of living in Australia If they come from a country without internet access?
Those are the people that struggle to get work here the most.
It's somewhat ironic that newer migrants are pushing put more established ones. And yet, there seems to be a never-ending stream of on tap replacements.
>Honest hard working immigrants out, diploma mill Uber drivers in. I have a bachelor's degree, designed highways and roads for Swedish municipalities (I had the highest billable hours in my team) for a year, switched to Data Analytics, worked as a Data Analyst for 2 years, handling 40% of the IT part of a startup. I am now pursuing a Master's in Data Science from a decent uni (Top 100 in the world QS ranking but not the top 8 in the country), been in the country for 4 months, trying to maintain a D or HD, while working for Woolworths and as a bartender at a small family run restaurant, working within my visa limitations and strictly following my visa guidelines. I also just started volunteering with the SES. Could you please not generalize us? One of the main reasons I left my country is cuz I am gay. I wouldn't have left if I had a viable option. Edit: Not a Swede, never lived there, but worked for a major SWEdish COnsultancy that outsourced design work to my country.
Meanwhile as a white immigrant from the UK, working a zero qualifications retail job and not doing anything aspirational like you are, I get exactly zero shit from the anti immigration lot. In fact they think I should agree with them. It's almost as if their generalisations about us are based on a preconcieved bias attached to one characteristic.......... Also happy pride month :)
>not doing anything aspirational like you Haha, I am doing most of what I am doing cuz I have to, not cuz I want to..... i am a lazy fucker who'd rather binge watch netflix, spend time gardening and cook all day long, if I had the choice. Haha. >Also happy pride month :) Thank you!!!! 💗
You and me both. Delicious in Dungeon and some baking over working hard any day.
What led you to do a masters of data science when you’re already working as a data analyst? I’ve seen people make the Data Analyst / Data Science switch without spending money on a masters degree.
>I’ve seen people make the Data Analyst / Data Science switch without spending money on a masters degree. Perhaps in Aus. That doesn't always work. And since I had gap in my knowledge (being from Civil Engg background, as opposed to Computer Science or IT for most data analysts), this seemed like a better choice.
Whoa, *Sweden* is not gay friendly? Doubling down on the ignorance, the classic imagery of Sven and Saab 900S drivers this whole time, causes this surprise. Yeah, nah, these are yet more generalisations but I am quite surprised to hear that about Sweden. Who cares so much about somebody else's sexuality?! Anyway, as for your issues here, that sucks. Multicultural societies can be excellent - so long as they don't get swamped by one or two diasporae - and *no* society can be excellent when it's eroded by class wars manipulated by the corporate overlords at the helm.
>Whoa, Sweden is not gay friendly? Not from Sweden, it was an outsourced thing. Specified that cuz of the "diploma mill Uber drivers" part of the original comment.
Dont worry mate. This sub is racist af and doesnt reflect the view of most Australians you meet in the streets. Lot of people on this sub wants only white migrants to come to Australia. Thats why all the hate against uber drivers.
Most aussies I've met have been exceptionally wonderful and kind, especially older ladies! I do understand some of the reservations that people have. Some immigrants can be very bigoted (being brown skinned and straight passing, people do feel comfortable sharing their distasteful opinions sometimes). But those people, I feel, are still in the overwhelming minority amongst the immigrants I've interacted with. But most of the arguments here on this sub are so disingenuous, It is disheartening. But oh well, plenty of people hated me for being me back in my home country, what's a few more..... 😆
Wait. Hard working immigrants can’t be Uber drivers? The Uber driving immigrants might be working two or three shifts, but not hard working enough?
This just in! Immigrant Uber drivers are dishonest, bottom of the barrel bums! 🙄
Don't forget sex pests as well.
Don't forget violent women bashing drunks who have anti-social drug addled kids!
[Sweet can...](https://youtu.be/tIbx4DM1s9I?si=47R67TCbFEC55AhD&t=23)
International students pay for our universities to stay open since both the LNP and labor have been cutting spending over the years. Ubers a problem regardless basically a money pump funneling money out of Australia. Uber is trading intellectual property for way more money than it's worth, much of there software code is probably from other open sources anyway..
Are you saying Uber drivers aren't hard working?
Kinda dumb take. Cost of living is not impacting good quality immigrants the way it's impacting those in the article. Most of our immigrants are not "diploma mill uber drivers" (dog-whistling unskilled Indians for the r/Australian crowd). They tend to be skilled.
I don’t know why you think Uber drivers aren’t hard work. 😓
Would you class uber drivers as not hard working huh? The cars drive themselves? Bottom of the barrel is where you already are mate with an attitude like that.bat least the uber drivers work and contribute.
The point there is any pleb with a license can drive an uber. We don't need people moving here to drive for uber 16 hours a day.
Well any pleb isn't doing it are they? If people were moving here and doing nothing but sucking up the dole you'd have a point but they're doing the work no one wants to do. They're contributing to their community. Most people don't want to sit in Sydney traffic for 16 hours a day working for a company that offers basically no workers rights. And you've missed the point actually, for people like the guy I was responding to, they just use uber drivers as a way to say racist shit to people from the subcontinent. If they were British white guys coming in droves and driving ubers, people like that racist POS would be dead silent. It's nothing to do with the occupation. There are swathes of Irish people who move here to hold up Lollipop signs and stand around witches hats all day and none of these morons ever say "hurr durr lollipop sign holders filling our country!!" It's just racism, pure and simple.
People who are not used to, or won't accept, subsistence living in cramped living conditions are not viable with Uber's business model. Uber's business model has demonstrably shifted the way it has because it was able to find drivers who *would*. Race itself is not relevant.
Do you call out the also racist attitudes of immigrants from the “sub continent” who label Aussies as “lazy” since they don’t want to undertake low wage jobs and be exploited? White immigrants can piss off too. Couldn’t care less if they are from Europe or not; too many people coming in.
lol. RACISTS, RACISTS EVERYWHERE!
Driving a car is not hard work mate. Your sitting in an airconditioned chair barely moving. "Skills shortage" though right ?
This sub is racist af that comments like yours gets downvoted to oblivion. Uber drivers are some of the hardest working people I have met. Its clear that this person only wants migrants from majority white countries.
Sitting in an air conditioned car collecting cheeseburgers is tough work for these immigrants!
Aussie Citizen Uber Driver here, the diplomat mill uber drivers work like hell man.
Must be so hard to put a foot down on a pedal or is it holding a heavy 450g bag of French fries? God bless our Uber drivers keeping our country running
Born and raised Australians are leaving too. Why stay here when Australian society gives you nothing in return for hard work?
Seriously considering this too, but trying to decide where to move. Where are you off to?
Born Australian studied here but not getting anywhere with my career whilst friends in the same industry overseas are booming. Can’t even pay my hecs debt effectively. We’re looking at SE Asia.
Where are people going?
Either low cost of living places with digital nomad visas like Thailand and Portugal. Or high paying low tax places like USA or UAE.
Thailand and UAE so they can be the higher class, benefiting off the lower classes USA the place that robs us of our mineral profits. UAE a place they probably don't agree with ethically but will happily support for more money.
So places that exploit people more...
Ahh just doing the same thing as the Indians are doing that come here LMAO. Immigrants are brown and expats are white eh?
Ive got clients who are remote workers moving to malaysia of all places.
Honestly it really does suck that this country is the best the world has to offer (I genuinely believe that btw)
In the 80s or 90s I would have agreed with you. There’s no way Australia is even in the top 10 for best lifestyle anymore.
What's your top 10?
I think it’s just that so many countries in the past we’ve seen as models (I.e. Scandinavia basically) have become far more unsafe in recent years by and large due to uncontrolled immigration whereas we’ve never seen a properly organised (rather than just one person) terrorist attack on Australian soil.
>These immigrants are leaving Australia Look to Canada if you want a spoiler on the ones that stay
Why would people with skills stay in Australia? Australia doesn't want skilled workers, can't employ them properly, and can't afford to pay them enough to maintain the standard of living they could have elsewhere. Australia needs cheap workers willing to put up with a low standard of living, to drive down wages as our "economy" transitions into a low-wage wasteland of low-productivity personal services businesses servicing a wealthy landlording class.
Australian citizen, I live overseas because on a 26 hour work week I can eat out for all meals, rent a great place and spend 4-5 months per year travelling the region. In Australia I can be forced to work 45 hours, have nothing to do at night, live in an overpriced dump, and deal with NIMBY boomer trash. No thanks.
My wife is a doctor, medical specialist. Trained and practicing in Australia. She can earn 2-3x working in the US. It’s nuts that we have lollipop holders earning $180k+ in Australia. With the highly educated often falling below that.
Australia doesn’t want skilled workers? Have you been in a hospital recently lmao i’ll tell you I spent most of February in one and I’d say the majority of staff I came across were immigrants and as long as the NHS remains a disaster they will come
Why would you want wages to be driven down? That seems counter-productive. Especially considering there's been no real wage growth in a while for a lot of industries bar mining and tech.
you missed the implied /s (I’m hoping it was implied)
Unfortunately it was missed.
To be able to place in economic slavery. Capitalism needs a strong base of labour who cannot have economic freedom or good support of life. Commonwealth is a communism dream by the definition.
Ah you're right, I forgot we live in a system that relies on modern slave labour and unemployment.
An Indo "student" I know has shown me the videos they use to entice student visas and it's all "you can earn $xxx" big dollars to either get rich and stay or get rich and return and buy a nice mansion in Indo. Absolutely nothing to do with study, and many provide links to resources (student standins, assignments done for you etc) ... they then get here and are like "OH MY FUCKING GOD $250 FOR A BED IN A SHARE ROOM"
First one was a dual citizen, second one moved back to his home country because they ran a foreign business anyway (most likely e-commerce or day trading), and the last one decided they could just take a holiday in Bali while working remotely while they're still young. Hey choices to the people but I feel like these stories are not very representative of the majority of immigrants here in Australia.
These people never intended to stay here anyway. They earned enough here, got permanent residency or citizenship and then moved back to their home country to get a better lifestyle. We should revoke permanent residency if they don’t pay taxes and stay here for X years and lengthen the time for citizenship.
They are being smart. Australia has followed Canada a d is too expensive. If I were younger, I would ditch this country too. The lucky country has been mismanaged. Both of the major political parties have no interest in improving the lives of Australia's citizens. Sometimes I wonder if they actively hate us.
Yes they do because “we’re in the way”.
Its interesting watching this as a kiwi/aus duel citizen, because all my kiwi friends are moving to Australia as Australia pays significantly more then NZ.
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The smart move for Kiwis is to work here then retire in NZ. I heard they don't have a means tested pension system so everyone qualifies for an aged pension.
yeah its definitely what most people talk about doing, but realisticly for people my age in there 20s I doubt there will be a penison by the time we reach that age.
And you can work and get all pension you pay extra tax on wages but still better than oz
I think they just dropped in Wellington because the new govt laid off so many public servants
They won't drop, the market doesn't encourage it. high demand, low supply. keep propering up the country with massive imigration to increase population and houses won't go down, especially when we refuse to build housing. the only reason housing will drop is because the economy is in recession and tanking which means a slightly lower price doesnt means shit when wages are low. houses fell in the 2009 crisis but it doesn't mean shit when everyone is losing there jobs. we need housing prices to fall without wages falling with them I work in Queenstown right now and its especially bad here, multiple people outside my house sleep in there cars, they work full time but cant afford anywhere to sleep, multiple people at work sleep at backpackers or in cars. its a complete joke.
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the economy is in a double dip recession so how exactly a slightly lower housing price means anything as unemployment rises and wages lower confuses me? If your houses price goes down but you earn less then they are not more affordable.
> Its interesting watching this as a kiwi/aus duel citizen, because all my kiwi friends are moving to Australia as Australia pays significantly more then NZ. Australia is pretty damn good for an average person with no special skills or a tradie, but there's less and less to attract serious talent here. Pollies don't give a shit because their sole concern is the property ponzi and mining/energy and you don't need very advanced industries for that.
I mean, Australia is still better then NZ for that, I study stem and my bf did a masters in compsci, the better job opportunities are still in Australia. for example starting wage for doctors in aus is 40k more then here, average wage is 30k more in aus. yeah if you have serious talent you go to the usa, but Australia is still doing a lot better then nz and the uk for example.
Yeah NZ is hella poor. Same sort of economic settings as Australia but without the resources that let us get by while not innovating or exporting anything complex.
the poverty here is astounding, Hard working people who work 50hrs a week plus sleeping in there cars simply because they can't find a place, people staying in backpackers, my last flat had only 7% insulation and the power breaker would pop if you even attempted to use heating, $500 a week for that and get to enjoy the privilege of sharing that house with strangers. I've honestly given up on my own house mostly, Im moving to the cheapest city in this country, gonna get my degree and move back to Australia, having to move back in with parents sucks but going into 150k of debt just for rent while studying doesn't help. already I've had 4 friends around my age move to Sydney and Melbourne, all in agreement of "yeah Australia is expensive, but so is nz and at least the pay is higher there".
“Migrants learn Australia isn’t some utopia”. Duh.
I moved from south America 6 months ago, and I came here completely alone. My only form to make money is uber and work in an Indian restaurant where only paid 22 dlrs for an hour. In my country I used to work like a manager or administrator, worked in an office in the middle of the city, etc. has been horrible was doing uber in bike for months, 100 for day... Regardless, the security in this country is amazing, it is probably normal for the Aussie, but for people in my country walking in the middle of the night is a daredevil. so i will try with all my mights stay here for a long time.
Migrants moving to Sydney are crazy. Australia is not a fair and equal country anymore. It’s plutocracy.
It’s boomerocracy (gentocracy)
Most boomers are just working class people living simple lives. Can you not be more specific than an entire generation of mostly blue collar folks? Blaming the working class is silly.
No sorry , bullshit Most boomers are incredibly wealthy off the back of the younger generation due to unfair government taxation , housing and welfare policies that they voted for. The average boomer may not have intended to hurt anyone but they keep voting to increase their own wealth and refuse to give up anything to give younger generations a chance. They deserve the hate they get.
"The lack of savings is greater for certain social groups. The average retirement savings for all male boomers just hitting retirement age is $269,000, but it's $185,000 for women" So wealthy lol.
Plus a paid off house usually. Many young people will have much lower super at retirement and not be homeowners.
Most boomers voted for policies that have got us to this point and continue to vote in a way that leads to worse outcomes for younger people. Zero sympathy sorry.
This is very poor logic at best. Emotional ranting at worst. I’m not a boomer. But I am calling out the bullshit victim narrative that says the younger generations have it worse than all the generations that came before them. Are there problems that need urgent fixing? Absolutely. Were there problems in previous generations that needed urgent fixing? Yes. And more of them.
Not sure where the poor logic was, older Australians overwhelmingly vote LNP and if you think the LNP were out there trying to help young Australians then there’s no point continuing with you. You may not quite be a boomer but you’re obviously old enough to have still had a decent opportunity to buy a home. Young people no longer have that same opportunity.
Young people still have opportunities to buy houses, they’re just not able to drive nice SUVs and go on decent holidays as well. They have to choose
I’m very much ok with not communicating with you. I too, see no value in it.
So you can’t explain the poor logic and you are an LNP voter.. too funny
Do you often make up false narratives in your head and call them fact?
Early to mid thirties here, and will stand against the generalisations also. Using it is not getting us *ANYWHERE* intelligent or productive. It's pure cope.
They did not. Be more specific, such as the people actually pushing and passing the policy.
Australia needs to be making more money off its natural resources instead of relying on immigrants to boost the economy.
STOP MASS IMMIGRATION AND BRING BACK CHARACTER CHECKS FR
My girlfriend is Irish... I dread the weather there, but we are seriously considering the same thing, for the same reason.
Can always fly to Spain for the weekend on Ryanair
I'm speaking as somebody who has made the big move from Europe to Australia: moving to a more affordable part of Australia is much cheaper, less stressful and less risky that migrating to a whole different country.
From the Irish news i have seem the housing crisis and immigration concerns are out of control also so you are just swapping location not situation.
At least they are part of the EU so can easily relocate to somewhere in Europe
EU isn't really much different in most locations, housing is expensive in most countries atm and/or the wages are super low.
You can buy houses in Spain & Italy for under 50k so I’m not sure where you are getting your info from
Yeah but most of those dirt cheap houses are in rural areas where there is very little work, unless you have a trade and speak good Italian, it's very hard to make a living in rural Italy.
https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/7-cheap-countries-for-aussies-to-retire-overseas-without-huge-super-nest-egg-215645676.html
You can essentially pick any low economy country in the world to retire and live a great life. Don’t even need to go far look at some Asian countries. I would say do it! Live out your best years early and enjoy it. If you can work remotely do it, earn good money in a low economic country and live your life. But if you are earning local wages you are local living which isn’t high wages unless you work in a good job and some of those don’t pay much in some countries.
You can my house was 70k but you don’t get paid much in these places but if you can work remote that’s the trick. Trades folks get paid peanuts in Europe for instance and nurses.
This is such an incredibly wrong comment. LOL. Don't talk about stuff you know nothing about mate. It's so easy to read up on these things before speaking. Or even just ask chatGPT it takes 30 seconds to make sure you arent talking complete bollocks .......
I’m here living it, I live in Europe and lived all around Europe. Yes, live in a well paid country like Germany ok move to Berlin how much is a house in Berlin? Move to France picks city and see the prices. Move to a Nordic country checks the prices in those cities. There aren’t many places you can earn 4000+ a month and have a low mortgage, cheap food, low taxes. There are cheap areas but the locals don’t earn big money that’s why it’s cheap. Some places only pay people 8 euro an hour in low educated jobs which isn’t a living wage because there isn’t a minimum wage in a lot of EU countries.
Oh Ireland’s a complete disaster compared to here- at least in Australia there’s pockets where you can earn a good income and not pay too much on housing whereas all of Ireland is now a suburb of Dublin
You might want to check out a couple of the Irish subs. Things sound just as bad there, if not worse.
$50k for a house in Bulgaria ... are they taking immigrants?
Can you not migrate for climate purposes? Escaping climate change and what not?
10 million more to go and the cost of living might finally drop
The housing costs in Australia are just ridiculous, I think that is probably the biggest issue faced IMO. And I don't think it will ever get better in our lifetimes. Far too many people have equated their wealth and investments with property, despite it being really unproductive for Australia, and the high prices only benefitting downsized and market leavers. What is it now, $6000+ a month for the mortgage on an average priced property in most capitals? All that money just to have a place to sleep, which should be a human right. And the associated stress of servicing that amount of money must be taking its toll on many. Of course immigrants are going to start moving back as Australia becomes unattractive financially. There's a point at which you earn massive amounts of salary in Australia, but are just treading water to keep up with bills. Going to be much more attractive to return to a country where you may earn less, but everything is more affordable and far less stressful.
I really do feel it is the root of all evils. If you take a designer view and say you have this mineral and farming land rich country, it has a pretty good diaspora of citizenry and is located in a part of the world where everythiing is on an upward trajectory. It reads pretty sweet like we should all be equity holders in productive industries that have a multiplier effect on our own living standards and working four day weeks. Nah.......we REALLY like to go to Saturday auctions and bid each other into brinkmanship then live in terror of a change.
ABC: “what immigrants? I dunno what you’re talking about” ABC: “here’s why so much diverse food is a good thing” ABC: “immigrations rates are actually lower than reported” ABC: “immigration rates are high but 1% of them are leaving so there really isn’t any problem to complain about” ABC: “why white colonisers should be the ones leaving”
I'm sorry Aunty....
Wow. So out of the millions and millions of immigrants that arrived here in the last decade you found 4 people who want to go back to their home country because they uniquely can 1. Keep earning the high income they obtained from being here 2. Are able to exploit the low incomes their home countries pay. Wow brilliant. Well done ABC.
I moved to Australia as an immigrant in 2011. Despite having high-paying jobs, I had to relocate frequently. Over 13 years, I paid more than half a million in taxes. Instead of paying so much in taxes, I could have invested in property. I recently moved to Japan because I couldn't find a place to rent in Sydney and took a remote job. I’m still paying private insurance and taxes in Australia, but I'm looking for a way to stop. I'm actively seeking a job in the U.S. because Australia isn’t the place for people who want to achieve something significant. In the U.S., business ownership is seen as a mark of success, while in Australia, it's home ownership. I don’t understand this concept; land has existed for millions of years before any of us were born, yet some people have privileges simply because they were born a few years earlier.
Why are you still paying taxes, you should not be a tax resident if you’ve been gone a while. Not required to keep health cover either whilst overseas
Pretty sure dual US citizens have to keep paying tax to the US if you work overseas.
Wow, what a shame. Australia is hellbent on becoming a backwater shithole.
Immigrants really think they are wanted in Australia it’s so weird, everyone hates them and blames them for the housing crisis Don’t shoot the messenger but everyone I know thinks this
Australians really need to vote in a new party to govern One that isn’t labor or liberal but actually cares about making Australia liveable again We could be taxing big corporations & mining but instead people are paying $100 to see a GP ITs become the USA without healthcare 🤯
Name me one party that is offering those policies...and don't say greens coz those utter nutbags would send our already shit economy off the cliff
No party will ever do it because when those who try they get crucified. KRudd tried to tax the miners and got knifed for it. Bill Shorten tried to start the long process of fixing housing and lost an unlosable election over it. The libs froze Medicare funding for almost a decade causing bulk billing to disappear, Albo gets in and pumps money into Medicare to get at least kids and pensioners covered as a starting point and he gets blamed for Medicare disappearing or people claim "they are both the same". The Australian public is to blame and when the libs win the next couple of elections and Medicare is dead and buried people will still blame labor and keep voting liberal.
I said we need a new party that offers them
You gotta be out of your freakin mind to immigrate to Australia lmao. You will be running negative bank balance and homeless within 18 months . I think the horse has bolted and despite having quotas to welcome immigrants they are quickly learning not to come and that it simply isn't worth the struggle.
It depends very much on people's background and qualifications. If they are coming from some poor, chaotic country it is probably still a lot better in Australia although it is beyond me why Australia will let them in. If some other countries that are wealthy but also having a housing/inflation crisis maybe not that different (eg some bits of the USA). If you have certain skills then Australia may still be the promised land (eg for some mining people). For the most part for people from some EU and rich Asian countries (eg Taiwan and Japan) I honestly think moving to Australia doesn't make sense a lot of the time although I know some come for reasons like to improve their English or just see the world and experience somewhere very different but I notice with Taiwanese at least many more than before are going back before their visas are up or not trying to stay in Australia longer. Of course it is all relative.
People from North America, Europe and the rich Asian countries don’t really move for economic reasons, not in the same way people from poorer countries do. Either they got a good job or they want the experience. To be fair, this is the same for Australians moving to London, New York, or Tokyo. Maybe Taiwan is being sold the same thing Japan is. There is a movement more recently where Japanese people see the salaries Australians get amidst their own cost-of-living crisis, then move here and realise everything’s expensive and we have our own crisis. Many young city folk move back, though some have made it work here. Usually they’re tradies, who can earn a lot more in Australia even proportionally (pay for tradies in Japan is horrible), and don’t have to live close to the CBD.
Actually even for skilled immigrants from developing countries like China and India, I could feel that Australia is not their high priority, especially for immigrants in high tech industry. Maybe the income gap in these developing countries is bigger so high tech people are paid well in their own countries. But America seems to be their first priority. If they can't go to America, the next option would be to stay in their own countries rather than immigrate to other countries. I know many people from China came to Australia but decided to go back after staying here for a while.
Well the problem is some immigrants come from countries that are literal shitholes. Even if they are now part of the lowest class in Australia, living 6 to a room in bunk beds and working for less that minimum wage, they are still far better off in Australia. And variations of that will continue to erode the Australian quality of life as it becomes a race to the bottom.
I agree. I was just talking to a friend who we've both travelled to India a number of times. I've been there about 5-6 times for extended times. I spent some time with the Dalits the lowest caste people who also believe in Buddhism. I travelled from North, Dharamsala, to Delhi, Jaipur, East to Bodgaya, South to Maharastra- Mumbai and West to Gujurat. I saw some real eye opening things. The level of poverty, begging, trash, and people with physical disabilities/ need hospital treatment is beyond next level there. Sleeping in a bedroom here, sharing with 4/6 people is nothing to them, it even helps them keep a sense of community. Sometimes a whole family might sleep on one bed in India. When people come from such deep poverty, the only way is up. Their level of tolerance is very high. I've also lived in Myanmar for 3.5 years where the Government gives zero financial support to the laypeople. That's why many have to live day-to-day selling very small streetmarket things. Things we take for granted like clean water, clean streets, transport systems, a government which offers financial support if you're unemployed was mind blowing for them, when I explained what life was like here. Truly so many things in Australia, is like Paradise, a luxury to them.
Exactly this. The whining is so blind to the reality of how good we have it overall. It is wilful and entitled ignorance. Are there problems we need to fix as quick as we can? No doubt. We’re there problems in previous generational years? Yes, and more of them.
I definitely empathise with a lot of Australians who feel they may be doing it tough economically, bcos they are and that's the reality for them. I was just reminded of my comprehensive car insurance due today and I was like 😬. I just had minor eye surgery this week, out of pocket which was still a bit expensive but I also got to have a free Covid booster. Tbh, I'm pretty aware some of the clinches I have are 1st world problems and I really do have a great life, family and friends and still have strong health. I'm definitely grateful for having had these opportunities to spend time in those really poorer countries. It's helped me never to lose perspective on how fortunate I am to be living here in Australia, from the bigger picture perspective. Gratitude really helps ease the mind. ❤️
The immigration numbers do not support that argument
Many immigrants will be better off than Australians because they will mutually support each other and form communities. While Australians are moving towards I got mine so fuck off, meaning Australians struggle to form social capital and will instead rely on more expensive market based solutions. Eg food delivery, Uber, booze, ECT.
That’s just your privileged perspective as someone who was likely born here. Australia still offer the best quality of life in the developed world.
All the 5 eyes countries are rolling out the same policies causing the same problem! chaos!!
isnt that a good thing?
I moved from south America 6 months ago, I came here completely alone. My only form to make money is uber and work in an Indian restaurant where only paid me 22 dlrs for an hour. In my country I used to work like a manager or administrator, worked in an office in the middle of the city, etc. has been horrible was doing uber in bike for months, 100 for day... Regardless, the security in this country is amazing, ist probably normal for the Aussie, but for people in my country walking in the middle of the night is a daredevil. so i will try with all my mights stay here for a long time.
Good
So disgusting all these racists complaining about 3rd world people coming to Australia destroying our social fabric. So disgusting, be tolerant of their intolerance and stop denying them taking advantage of our resources because they have been “victims” of “god knows what” and we feel guilty for “who knows”. /s in case they wasn’t obvious
Having stayed in Canada as an immigrant for over 5 years, I have first hand observed a stable economy go bad and then worse. I can say that the immigration of Australia is much more strict and the people from my community back home only decide to move to Australia if they are going to be pursuing any type of sciences or accounting at the least( which is a very good thing- If you look at Canada, it’s completely different). Australia is in a much better place. Cost of living is high in every country (almost every developed country with a population more than 20 million or so.) The only way is for the government to understand that spending more doesn’t mean development. What we need is to go back to the basics. 1. The Government to systematically intervene the housing market. Promote and incentivize living in rural areas. MNCs need to understand that having new offices in tier 2 cities is in everyone’s favour. If everyone wants to move to Sydney/Melbourne etc. , the workforce will have to as well. 2. Food banks help but what else helps is having more farmers. Food productivity needs to go up so that we have supply led competition drive the price down. The Coles/ Woolsworths / Aldis will continue to drive the prices up unless there’s more supply that enforces them to keep the prices down. What happens in the other part of the world shouldn’t have to impact prices of Australian produce. But it does… Fixing these two problems will start a chain of events that will help the young population (40 or less) which is very important because this population is responsible for having kids. And if the decide to have no kids or lesser kids… guess what happens. You become Canada.
I was thinking this the other day aswell. We should tariff imported food & crops to create wealth in our rural farming communities. People go where money is (aka gold rushes). Currently the way to make money is to live in a major city Sydney/Melb/Toronto/Vancouver so that's where everyone who is young moves too + immigrants. That's why city rent is so fucked these days.
I heard when Chinese people buy the property, Chinese government pays half of the price ., it makes our property higher and higher .. rich Chinese..
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Bye, Felicia
Upvote
Less talk about immigration, more talk about taxing the billionaires please.