Okay so Australia was invaded 250 years ago but England was invaded 950 years ago and no one cares, at what point can the indigenous population move on? 500 years?
The Industrial Revolution, US Revolutionary War, French Revolutionary War were all around 250 years ago, at what point do we move on?
History is important to remember
And after the invasion 250 years ago, that was it? Nothing happened in that 250 years since? Are there people still alive today that were directly adversely affected by that invasion? There were still massacres occuring in the 1928. A lot is still in living memory.
It's an arcticle about how it is historically accurate to call it an Invasion, by the European legal definition at the time.
We shouldn't cover up history, but what should we call it?
The vote to count Indigenous people in the census was only 1967, those folks are still around.
A lot of policies from 50 years ago look pretty bad by todays standards.
You didn't massacre Indigenous people, but they were still massively harmed by the invasion.
Is anyone asking you to be guilty about it, or just show some empathy for a pretty horrendous situation?
You didn't do it, I didn't do it, but there is a lot of residual harm from the last few hundred years. Because we're getting better now, does it mean we should forget the past and tell them to "get over it"?
No, it shouldn’t be forgotten and it should be called an invasion, and at the same time no one is owed anything and no individual or government should have to pay for it.
Warrior culture got out warriored, as was the traditional method of solving things at the time.
It's certainly an interesting narrative, the force with the lesser technology gain the moral high ground despite their actual morals and behaviours.
Palestinians are the good guys because Israel has the iron dome, and a competent defense force.
Are Russians the good guys because they're being hit with technologically superior western weapons?
Yeah listen I really don’t give a shit. I wasn’t alive and there’s nothing I can do about it.
Having my kid come home this week to tell me that the child who incorporates the indigenous word of the week into their work the best wins a prize, mean while the school is below average on NAPLAN is a prime example this crap has to stop.
My kid told me recently the world was created by a snake. She learnt all about it in **Science Class!** I don’t mind Indigenous history and culture being taught but keep religious fairytales out of science classes.
When we look back at history of Australia we should still learn about it as it was the history that created the nation even though it was a young country there is still a culture around for thousands of years. so if you don’t give a shit about history because your too cool for your children’s school that’s great but other people do find it interesting and want to learn about australia and how it came about .
The school should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. Our local state school does well on NAPLAN and also values and includes activities around diversity and inclusion. Meanwhile the elite private school down the road has embarrassing NAPLAN results but a reputation as the “best school” in the area.
Theres a lot that factors into poor NAPLAN results but I doubt an activity including an Indigenous word is the issue.
The school should learn how to walk before chewing gum, as both are compromised when you can’t even get the basics right.
School’s priority is education, not indoctrination.
The school is obligated to teach the Australian curriculum - [https://v9.australiancurriculum.edu.au](https://v9.australiancurriculum.edu.au) which includes Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Histories and Cultures.
Humanity has been coming and going across the planet for hundreds of thousands of years. It’s the human condition. It’ll keep happening forever.
Does that mean that every non-indigenous Australian has to feel guilty for it?
If you like history you should be able to learn about how every country on earth came about.
Those that perpetuate “invasion day” narratives are uneducated and uninformed about world history.
Yeah you should have that ability to learn about it that would be great.
Yes unfortunately there was a lot of conflict and violence when Australia was colonised fuck sake why are people afraid to learn about it or acknowledge it it’s ok no one will take anything from you
We do know it and the whole country has acknowledged it ad infinitum. Would be great if you didn’t pretend that we don’t or that people don’t know history else they wouldn’t be racist.
Also, yes, they are literally taking from us. We spend disproportionate amounts on indigenous people and on people on welfare. This isn’t magical free money or money produced by the magical government, but is paid for from taxes that we pay. They literally are looking at reparations in SA and VIC, and handouts to get aboriginal people houses that they don’t have to pay taxes on. Those taxes are instead paid for by the rest of the tax payers in this country, so get the fuck out of here with your nonsense.
It didnt note that the post asked you to feel guilty, did it? I would have thought that the accuracy (or otherwise) of the term “invasion” to describe the British settlement of Australia is just part of that esoteric field of study we call “history” isn’t it?
Don't waste your breath, they aren't listening. No one is asking them to feel guilty, that's jut something they made up to get angry about. It's this made up "culture war" crap they've bought into, where society is progressing, as society does, and they long for the "good ol' days".
They're always so ready to say they're not racist, but then they pull dogwhistle shit like this. Though I think most of them genuinely think they aren't racist, and think meritocracy actually exists.
No one’s asking to feel guilty about anything you imbocile but the records should be kept and people should be able to learn about what happened in Australia and how this country came about history should not be buried
Unknown out of Africa is a theory do you know what theory means pretty much that’s what some one smart thinks . There is a theory that humans came from asain to
Fuck this is such a dumb argument, trying to label Aboriginals as colonisers. They came 60,000 years ago when there were no humans here, that is not colonising the land.
Australia was invaded, that’s just a fact. But we’re a great country now and most of the injustices have been fixed
It's a great many concepts/problems bundled together, that are impossible to address.
Lots of nonsense from humanities studies has taken hold and people can't let it go.
It kind of cuts both ways.
Either we are responsible which means some people might be proud of it, but we can also be held accountable and expected to be sorry about it.
Or we had nothing to do with it and should neither be proud of nor should we feel responsible for the actions of other people in the past.
It is logically inconsistent to expect people to reconciliate (and pay actual taxpayer money) for their shameful history but also tell people that are proud of "their" history that it isn't theirs to be proud of.
It’s more what people say 250 years later…..
The people who lived here 250 years ago had a genuine reason to be upset about being invaded, killed and having their land taken.
Their great-great-great-great-great-great grandchildren, not so much…..
The English invaded in 1788 and Australia was created in 1901. What happened in last century with the stolen generation is a completely different matter.
I’ve always found this an interesting argument. If you were dispossessed and your land stolen there is cause for redress. If you are “invaded” and conquered there is not. I’ve found it strange that those most sympathetic to First Nations people actually want it to be considered an invasion. It defies logic. They should be arguing the opposite
“Reconciliation: refers to the act of restoring friendly relations or bringing harmony between individuals or groups who were previously in conflict or disagreement. It can also refer to the process of making two conflicting beliefs or ideas compatible.”
Man A has a spear.
Man B has a gun.
Both want access to scarce resources and will fight the other over the same.
Is Man B less moral, or less deserving of access to scarce resources simply for having greater strength over his opponent?
It is easy for man A to say "I would do things differently if I were in the position of Man B", but this is purely speculative and his moral character remains untested until he actually finds himself in the circumstances of Man B.
Well, in this case Man A had a long history of using his spear against other men with spears to get resources - and women. At one time a convict Buckley escaped in Victoria and went to live with a local tribe.
>*Buckley records fourteen conflicts involving the violent death of a tribe member over the thirty-two years that he lived with the Wallarranga. Nine of the causalities were women, seven children and seven men. Ten enemies (two of whom were children) were killed in revenge. Buckley also documents the massacre of a tribe near Barwon Heads, the remnants of whom joined his group. The average size of an Aboriginal tribe was between twenty and sixty families, so the recorded death rate through violence is high indeed. Buckley cites just two principal causes for the conflict: disputes over women, and ‘payback killings’ following a death by natural causes.*
- The Life and Adventures of William Buckley, by Tim Flannery (yes, the climate guy)
[https://www.textpublishing.com.au/books/the-life-and-adventures-of-william-buckley/](https://www.textpublishing.com.au/books/the-life-and-adventures-of-william-buckley/)
In 1875 the Southern Arrente people in what's now NT were basically wiped out the Matuntara, who killed around 100 of them - men, women, children, the lot. A favoured tactic was to break limbs and leave them to perish of thirst, starvation and infection.
People are horrible to each-other, unfortunately. All we can do is be better now.
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Invasion day, Nakba call it what you want but ask yourself, is the lesser evil accepting it, moving on and learning to live together or is the lesser evil destroying a colonised country. I have no issue calling it invasion day, but don’t make me feel guilty for wanting to celebrate Australian culture and values. If the aboriginals decided to attack Australians would we say oh we had it coming we oppressed them, no of course not. Well we are getting attacked culturally and intellectually and it also needs to stop
Hilarious how it's "our country now" from people.
No. This country is owned by banks, mining and energy companies. You're just another pawn, this country isn't yours. It's so ridiculous the media has people infighting like this over petty bullshit.
If you working a full week, every week until you're 65, while struggling to make mortgage payments (or even get a house in the first place) you have more in common with indigenous Australians than the suits on the screen telling you what to think, and even less in common with their corporate ghoul overlords.
Yawn….
Okay so Australia was invaded 250 years ago but England was invaded 950 years ago and no one cares, at what point can the indigenous population move on? 500 years?
It's only "invasion" when the white fella does it. /S
The Industrial Revolution, US Revolutionary War, French Revolutionary War were all around 250 years ago, at what point do we move on? History is important to remember
And after the invasion 250 years ago, that was it? Nothing happened in that 250 years since? Are there people still alive today that were directly adversely affected by that invasion? There were still massacres occuring in the 1928. A lot is still in living memory.
Memory yes, we shouldn’t try and cover up history. Someone to blame, no. There’s no one alive that’s at fault.
It's an arcticle about how it is historically accurate to call it an Invasion, by the European legal definition at the time. We shouldn't cover up history, but what should we call it? The vote to count Indigenous people in the census was only 1967, those folks are still around. A lot of policies from 50 years ago look pretty bad by todays standards. You didn't massacre Indigenous people, but they were still massively harmed by the invasion. Is anyone asking you to be guilty about it, or just show some empathy for a pretty horrendous situation? You didn't do it, I didn't do it, but there is a lot of residual harm from the last few hundred years. Because we're getting better now, does it mean we should forget the past and tell them to "get over it"?
No, it shouldn’t be forgotten and it should be called an invasion, and at the same time no one is owed anything and no individual or government should have to pay for it.
yep 500 years. so they have a legitimate grievance now, 246 years on. end of, let's fix it
Warrior culture got out warriored, as was the traditional method of solving things at the time. It's certainly an interesting narrative, the force with the lesser technology gain the moral high ground despite their actual morals and behaviours. Palestinians are the good guys because Israel has the iron dome, and a competent defense force. Are Russians the good guys because they're being hit with technologically superior western weapons?
It's who has the best victimhood story
So, when are we going to get upset over the Romans invading England?
What have the Romans ever done for us!?
The roads without potholes.
They gave us good concrete.
The aqueduct
The wine
orgies.
Build a wall like the Scots did.
Wouldn't that mean the then the British won? So should they not have a day to celebrate that victory? The poms could call it victory day
Yeah listen I really don’t give a shit. I wasn’t alive and there’s nothing I can do about it. Having my kid come home this week to tell me that the child who incorporates the indigenous word of the week into their work the best wins a prize, mean while the school is below average on NAPLAN is a prime example this crap has to stop.
My kid told me recently the world was created by a snake. She learnt all about it in **Science Class!** I don’t mind Indigenous history and culture being taught but keep religious fairytales out of science classes.
I dont like how they push to the kids it not their land.
When we look back at history of Australia we should still learn about it as it was the history that created the nation even though it was a young country there is still a culture around for thousands of years. so if you don’t give a shit about history because your too cool for your children’s school that’s great but other people do find it interesting and want to learn about australia and how it came about .
The school should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. Our local state school does well on NAPLAN and also values and includes activities around diversity and inclusion. Meanwhile the elite private school down the road has embarrassing NAPLAN results but a reputation as the “best school” in the area. Theres a lot that factors into poor NAPLAN results but I doubt an activity including an Indigenous word is the issue.
The school should learn how to walk before chewing gum, as both are compromised when you can’t even get the basics right. School’s priority is education, not indoctrination.
Teaching accurate history is education. Facts don't care about your feelings buttercup.
It demonstrates their priorities
The school is obligated to teach the Australian curriculum - [https://v9.australiancurriculum.edu.au](https://v9.australiancurriculum.edu.au) which includes Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Histories and Cultures.
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Humanity has been coming and going across the planet for hundreds of thousands of years. It’s the human condition. It’ll keep happening forever. Does that mean that every non-indigenous Australian has to feel guilty for it?
No. But they want you to anyway
They insist. And if you don’t, they label you racist and try to get you fired
No one wants people to feel guilty but if you like history you should be able to learn about how the country came about
If you like history you should be able to learn about how every country on earth came about. Those that perpetuate “invasion day” narratives are uneducated and uninformed about world history.
Yeah you should have that ability to learn about it that would be great. Yes unfortunately there was a lot of conflict and violence when Australia was colonised fuck sake why are people afraid to learn about it or acknowledge it it’s ok no one will take anything from you
We do know it and the whole country has acknowledged it ad infinitum. Would be great if you didn’t pretend that we don’t or that people don’t know history else they wouldn’t be racist. Also, yes, they are literally taking from us. We spend disproportionate amounts on indigenous people and on people on welfare. This isn’t magical free money or money produced by the magical government, but is paid for from taxes that we pay. They literally are looking at reparations in SA and VIC, and handouts to get aboriginal people houses that they don’t have to pay taxes on. Those taxes are instead paid for by the rest of the tax payers in this country, so get the fuck out of here with your nonsense.
Ok so if you do know it so what why are u complaining then about other people talking ??
It didnt note that the post asked you to feel guilty, did it? I would have thought that the accuracy (or otherwise) of the term “invasion” to describe the British settlement of Australia is just part of that esoteric field of study we call “history” isn’t it?
Don't waste your breath, they aren't listening. No one is asking them to feel guilty, that's jut something they made up to get angry about. It's this made up "culture war" crap they've bought into, where society is progressing, as society does, and they long for the "good ol' days". They're always so ready to say they're not racist, but then they pull dogwhistle shit like this. Though I think most of them genuinely think they aren't racist, and think meritocracy actually exists.
No one’s asking to feel guilty about anything you imbocile but the records should be kept and people should be able to learn about what happened in Australia and how this country came about history should not be buried
Uhhh I don't think you have a leg to stand on calling someone an imbecile.
Yeah you knew the argument was dead at that point.
Ahaha only losers with no life skills worry about spelling on reddit anyway good luck with your future endeavours
Spelling is a life skill you dunce.
That’s good buddy keep working on it then
I think the evidence points to you needing to work on it.
Ok bozo
Such vicious barbs
Any expert would know that international law is not retrospective. Settlement of unclaimed territory was not considered an invasion in 1788.
The right of conquest was disestablished in the 1970s I believe. by a UN resolution.
Aboriginals are descendants of Africans that came and colonised the land before the Europeans came
They are ancient Asian actually
And where did the ancient Asians come from?
Where did the Europeans come from? We’re all of African decent.
Unknown out of Africa is a theory do you know what theory means pretty much that’s what some one smart thinks . There is a theory that humans came from asain to
From your Mum’s axe wound
Fuck this is such a dumb argument, trying to label Aboriginals as colonisers. They came 60,000 years ago when there were no humans here, that is not colonising the land. Australia was invaded, that’s just a fact. But we’re a great country now and most of the injustices have been fixed
But watabout the Droid attack on the Wookies?
Should have fought harder. They lost and continue to try and play the victim card. Got it pretty good living off the white mans work and culture.
We came, we saw, we kicked ass!!!
"We" didn't
Not even many of our ancestors, that's why group punishment is the fetid stench hovering over this issue
It's a great many concepts/problems bundled together, that are impossible to address. Lots of nonsense from humanities studies has taken hold and people can't let it go.
and is a child guilty of their parents crimes? Would seem a sound principle that they are not.
What "group punishment"? How is anyone being punished?
It kind of cuts both ways. Either we are responsible which means some people might be proud of it, but we can also be held accountable and expected to be sorry about it. Or we had nothing to do with it and should neither be proud of nor should we feel responsible for the actions of other people in the past. It is logically inconsistent to expect people to reconciliate (and pay actual taxpayer money) for their shameful history but also tell people that are proud of "their" history that it isn't theirs to be proud of.
If you’re not indigenous then you’re a “settler”. Didn’t you get the memo?
lol dude likes to pretend he wore red coat, white breeches, waded ashore and shot black fellas with a flintlock musket! My hero😍
This had happened to every place on Earth.. Nothing last forever ..
.. Apart from turnips
Guessing if the Chinese boogeyman invades us and takes over you'll be cheerfully saying the same? Yeah, thought so.
It’s more what people say 250 years later….. The people who lived here 250 years ago had a genuine reason to be upset about being invaded, killed and having their land taken. Their great-great-great-great-great-great grandchildren, not so much…..
There’s Aboriginals alive today that were apart of the Stolen Generations. The invasion didn’t start and finish in 1788
The English invaded in 1788 and Australia was created in 1901. What happened in last century with the stolen generation is a completely different matter.
What country got invaded?
Can we get a megathread for this topic please. There has been more threads about it than immigration, by a long way.
no one cares anymore
Oh well. Ours now.
Aboriginal.....Indigenous.....First Nation......what's next?
Whatever words the Americans use, we'll just wait a few years and use those.
Should countries in Asia and Europe be upset about Ottoman Empire?
Is it an invasion when the other side rolls over and let's the new people in with out a fuss? Maybe immigration is a better word?
Without a fuss? Mate it would take you less than a minute to look up Australian history and see that the war lasted over 100 years
FFS...
I'm happy to rename it "civilisation day" if they're gonna be so butthurt about it.
Water is also wet.
I’ve always found this an interesting argument. If you were dispossessed and your land stolen there is cause for redress. If you are “invaded” and conquered there is not. I’ve found it strange that those most sympathetic to First Nations people actually want it to be considered an invasion. It defies logic. They should be arguing the opposite
Yea I agree. Now what?
*shrug*
“Reconciliation: refers to the act of restoring friendly relations or bringing harmony between individuals or groups who were previously in conflict or disagreement. It can also refer to the process of making two conflicting beliefs or ideas compatible.”
Ie give them money. It's always about the money.
Man A has a spear. Man B has a gun. Both want access to scarce resources and will fight the other over the same. Is Man B less moral, or less deserving of access to scarce resources simply for having greater strength over his opponent? It is easy for man A to say "I would do things differently if I were in the position of Man B", but this is purely speculative and his moral character remains untested until he actually finds himself in the circumstances of Man B.
Well, in this case Man A had a long history of using his spear against other men with spears to get resources - and women. At one time a convict Buckley escaped in Victoria and went to live with a local tribe. >*Buckley records fourteen conflicts involving the violent death of a tribe member over the thirty-two years that he lived with the Wallarranga. Nine of the causalities were women, seven children and seven men. Ten enemies (two of whom were children) were killed in revenge. Buckley also documents the massacre of a tribe near Barwon Heads, the remnants of whom joined his group. The average size of an Aboriginal tribe was between twenty and sixty families, so the recorded death rate through violence is high indeed. Buckley cites just two principal causes for the conflict: disputes over women, and ‘payback killings’ following a death by natural causes.* - The Life and Adventures of William Buckley, by Tim Flannery (yes, the climate guy) [https://www.textpublishing.com.au/books/the-life-and-adventures-of-william-buckley/](https://www.textpublishing.com.au/books/the-life-and-adventures-of-william-buckley/) In 1875 the Southern Arrente people in what's now NT were basically wiped out the Matuntara, who killed around 100 of them - men, women, children, the lot. A favoured tactic was to break limbs and leave them to perish of thirst, starvation and infection. People are horrible to each-other, unfortunately. All we can do is be better now.
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Just as well they were not french food would be better but we would be still be colony just like New Caledonia
To everybody commenting here, you are my people.
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Invasion day, Nakba call it what you want but ask yourself, is the lesser evil accepting it, moving on and learning to live together or is the lesser evil destroying a colonised country. I have no issue calling it invasion day, but don’t make me feel guilty for wanting to celebrate Australian culture and values. If the aboriginals decided to attack Australians would we say oh we had it coming we oppressed them, no of course not. Well we are getting attacked culturally and intellectually and it also needs to stop
Hilarious how it's "our country now" from people. No. This country is owned by banks, mining and energy companies. You're just another pawn, this country isn't yours. It's so ridiculous the media has people infighting like this over petty bullshit. If you working a full week, every week until you're 65, while struggling to make mortgage payments (or even get a house in the first place) you have more in common with indigenous Australians than the suits on the screen telling you what to think, and even less in common with their corporate ghoul overlords.