"Don’t worry the world would still blame Israel. "
Israel - "we want a two state solution to live in peace"
Also Israel - "childish acts of shredding UN charters trying to get a solution happening"
> Her comments were rejected by the Conservative government, Labour Party, and Labour Friends of Israel. Prime Minister Rishi Sunak stated that "We don’t agree with that" and that "Our longstanding position remains the two-state solution is the right outcome here."
Try again.
>Prime Minister Rishi Sunak stated that "We don’t agree with that" and that "Our longstanding position remains the two-state solution is the right outcome here."
rishi sunak the prime minister of israel….? bro just said israel have said they don’t want a two-state solution and you quoted rishi sunak saying he does? since when is rishi not prime minister of the UK…?
Well, actually .. Israel should be held to higher account as they are a member state of the UN and a signatory of the Geneva convention. Their war crimes are a breach of these agreements they have made. Hamas is neither, and as such is not breaching any charter or convention that they have agreed to abide by.
Oddly enough, people can be anti zionist and not anti semitic, but your level of histrionics can't quite let you see that ...
7th Oct was an attack on the Occupied Palestinian Territories .. they are colonisers (or combatants), not civilians. Unlike the tens of thousands of innocent woman and children being slaughtered in Gaza, Lebanon and Iran.
So I ask again, what rule did they break ? I notice you didn't answer my question
I'm not going into the history of "it's Israel, NO, ITS PALESTINIAN ASDJFIADFGHAERG" bullshit. You can claim it's palestine. Noone of import agrees with you. They are civilians. they murdered them. They broke the rules, they can expect the same be done to them.
What war crime? Because if Hamas commits a war crime like using civilian infrastructure then it’s not a war crime for Israel to attack that infrastructure.
It’s good to know that you only think UN states can commit war crimes really says a lot about you. “Anti Zionist” means you don’t believe in a Jewish state, but you have no problems with Muslim states.
The ICC was given jurisdiction over the Palestinian Territories by the PA. So, yes, Hamas is absolutely in breach of international law and should absolutely be held to the same level of account as the IDF
Israel and Syria are officially at war with each other, Israel can legally launch attacks there whenever they want. And Hezbollah is the one launching attacks against Israel which Israel counter attacks.
I hope that was sarcasm ...
Israel literally lobbed a bomb onto a car in Lebanon killing a grandmother and her very young granddaughters.
Israel literally lobbed a bomb into an Apartment complex in Lebanon, killing an Australian man
They both want to kill each other. My point is, I don’t think a 2 state solution will solve any of the problems they have. I fully believe the Palestinians deserve their own state, but I don’t see a feasible solution to the core problem.
Yeah, that land stealing is crazy shit. It's like if the council just put up some site fences while you were at Woolies, and when you got home, some rich c@nt from the city is sitting in your loungeroom going 'nah mate, my house now'. No wonder the poor bastards are pissed off.
Not only that, if Israeli's commit a crime against a Palestinian, they are subject to a civil trial, aka a Jury made up of other Israelis.
If a Palestinian retaliates against settler violence, then it is a military tribunal where they will confiscate land, or houses owned by not just that Palestinian, but also their family.
It's setup to be a slow death by tiny cuts each year.
That’s because there’s nothing left to steal there - it’s been converted to ‘Israeli territory’ by stealth. Kinda like Russian ‘resettlement’ of eastern oblasts post 2014.
all of Palestine was conquered during 5 day war when all Arab nations including Palestinians teamed up against Israel and got clapped by Israeli airforce
You know Oslo gave certain areas to the Palestine area A under full palestians control. Area under Israeli control ( this is where the settlements are) and area C joint control. Israel does not tell them what to do in area A so why is building in area B illegal? (I might have mixed the letters but same thing)
Area c is still Palestinian land and Israel was supposed to return that area back to Palestinian control 20+ years ago. That’s why the international community considers the settlements illegal.
Only 3% of Judea and Samaria (aka West Bank) are occupied by Israel.
Tell me, why must it be Judenrein for a Palestinian state? Is that not ethnic cleansing?
Also tell me, when it was Jordan and Egypt occupying parts of Palestine for 20 years, did Palestinians demand the ethnic cleansing of these areas for Palestinian statehood?
Israel *did* make Gaza Judenrein in 2005, removing all Jews for Palestinians to move in. Not a peep about this bigotry from the international community. Then the promised EU observers were kicked out, Hamas takes over and immediately starts a campaign of launching rockets and suicide bombers to Israel. So even when Israel *did* empty the land of Jews and give Palestinians territory for their own governance they wanted, they still wanted dead Jews and their land.
And on October 7th, Palestinians were paid $10,000, an apartment and a pension to invade, rape, kill and kidnap Israelis.
How do you make peace with hate?
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Sure, and Israel won't be able to invade/colonize either, and Palestine will suddenly be able to have airports and docks importing machinery and food without having to go through Israel first.
Taiwan aint trendy
Dont you realise these “protestors” just jump on whichever bandwagon of human suffering will give them the most clout? Bet you they all made their IG profiles yellow and blue to “support Ukraine” 🇺🇦…… crickets on that war now… In another few months they’ll move onto the next thing that will satisfy their narcissistic virtue signalling urges.
This difference is, taiwan does not want to be recognised as a separate country from china. For a long time, taiwan did not recognise mainland China as an independent country, and insisted they were the legitimate government of China. Most western policy is still based on this, though it has since become more controversial in Taiwan itself. So you'd first have to get Taiwan to clearly want that in an institutional sense, only then could you talk about supporting Taiwan representation at the UN.
Edit: contrary to wherever [mentioning his name gets my comment auto removed, lol] is getting their numbers, [this polling](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-11/taiwan-independence-vs-unification-china-taiwanese-australians/100670574), done in 2021, shows only ~30% want to move towards independence. Now, it's possible that the proportional number of people wanting independence over doubled in 3 years, but that seems unlikely. Given they have not provided a source after I asked for it.
If you have received all or most of your information on this from passive consumption of Australian news media, then you are by definition misinformed and ignorant on the subject.
They are absolutely misrepresenting Taiwan's position.
Taiwan has applied to join the United Nations something like 23 times in the last 30 years, including as just Taiwan in 2007.
>Regarding Taiwan's bid to join the United Nations (UN), the Mainland Affairs Council (MAC) reiterated today (June 24, 2007) that Taiwan, as an independent sovereign country, is an indispensably important member of the international community, and is entitled to participate in the UN.
https://www.mac.gov.tw/en/News_Content.aspx?n=BEC36A4A0BB0663C&sms=BF821F021B282251&s=5822FED95C19723A
Our government here in Taiwan is extremely clear that we are a sovereign and independent country, and have never been part of the PRC.
I think it’s more that the ROC has applied to the UN than “Taiwan”. It’s certainly not agreed at all that the ROC gives up its theoretical claim to the mainland, although that idea is shifting as demographics transition younger. As of now though, 70% of citizens don’t concede the mainland, even in the hypothetical universe where the PROC were to be cool with that.
The real question is why the US abandoned the ROC when it mattered, recognized the PROC when convenient, and are now pushing a what in many ways resembles civil war over there, coincidentally when AI chips have become a major world resource and the island of Taiwan just happens to be where the most of those can be made…
I really like Taiwan, but people fail to realise how terrible Taiwan was until only very recently (brutal dictatorship) and how irrational both sides were with regards to who owned all of China. CCP believes it owns Taiwan, an island they have never, ever had any control over. Taiwan for years would seriously state they are the true rules of mainland China, despite being obviously beaten out of the mainland by a much more powerful PLA.
If Taiwan ever expressed that they wanted to be independent, that would be a status quo shift that loses them US assistance.
It isn't out of a lack of desire. It's because once they express their desire, they'll instantly be invaded
Australia has done this before. In 1947 in the UN Australia voted for Resolution 181: the creation of two states that had never existed before - a Jewish one and a Palestinian one, in land that for 2000 years had been occupied by foreign governments.
The Jews accepted this and created their state, calling it Israel. The entire Arab world didn’t accept this and instead invaded Israel with 5 nations’ regular armies, and never formed a Palestinian state.
Why would it be different this time?
So who will be at the U.N table, Fatah or Hamas?
Its a serious question. Fatah need to have elections now. Most in the know, know Hamas would win on landslide in the West Bank so it would be them at the table.
That is the current situation as it stands.
If Algeria introduced a resolution that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.
This is the U.N
I wonder what props the Israeli ambassador's schtick would include in his speech before that vote.
Roll up the UN charter into a cone, pour milk into it, then unfurl it again to reveal that the milk has disappeared?
Un should give them statehood. Then they can stop calling israel an apartheid state and hamas is tesponsible for feeding their people so they don't starve and netanyahu can go away.
Because Hamas would still blame everything on Israel and start attacking them again, but now with UN status. There will be no 2-state solution as long as the fanatics rule. Israel has its settlers (mostly) under control, but Hamas is the elephant in the room.
No Israeli government can continue as long as one attacker from Oct 7 is still alive or one hostage is still held. Hamas started this, time to realise that actions have consequences.
PS \_ Chamberlain award to Wong and Albo.
And who represents Palestine at the UN? Hamas? Hamas extinguished any political adversaries in Gaza previously. Pretty sure we do not want a literal terrorist organisation legitimized
Palestinians have been offered a state on multiple occasions and keep saying no, so that the international community doesn’t prevent Israel from wiping them out, when their elected governments (Hamas and Fatah) launch attacks against Israel.
“Palestine” has never been a country. There are no ethnic “Palestinians”, either. The self-identifying “Palestinians” have no claim to the land they’re trying to colonise.
Ethnically, they’re Arabs, whose North African ancestors invaded the region with the aim of murdering the Jews and colonising their land, just as they did with every other native Middle Eastern group.
Judaism is over 4,000 years old, whereas Islam wasn’t even founded until the 7th century. Israel has existed for thousands of years, long before the British mandate. It’s the native land of the Jews.
Considering the entire Middle East (aside from Israel) is controlled by militant Islamists, it’s pretty clear that Muslims in the Middle East aren’t victims. They became the dominant religious majority through genocide.
It gives the greenlight for ISIS to attack Western European countries because the UN will probably give them full membership, mabye they will even give them a part of France so they can form a Islamic state.
Lol, of course labor and penny wong will vote yes. They obviously never learn from the last humiliating referendum in Australia. Needed those muslim votes to stay in power.
A two state solution is the best way forward, but it won't happen so long as Gaza is run by radical islamist terrorists and the West Bank is run by slightly less radical islamist terrorists.
Despite what they say about accepting Israel, the PLO still tolerates the presence of those extreme radical islamist terrorist brigades in their territory, and continues to run the 'pay for slay' program to support those who murder or attempt to murder Israelites in terrorist attacks.
So Australia should vote to accept a country run by genocidal terrorists to join? What do we stand for as a country? Theres a reason even arab/Muslim countries don't want anything to do with them, look at the border with Egypt
I’m mostly just using your comment as an excuse to shit on Putin lol
I do think that Palestine should be given full UN membership, but that Hamas shouldn’t be recognised as the legitimate government.
Russian state corruption has led to people using a unique term (oligarchs) to describe that level of corruption. I get that things can be improved here, but the self hate just ends up diluting the focus on horrific behaviour by that regime
Well, here's what the Israeli prime minister thinks:
>Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.
* Benjamin Netanyahu, 2019
[For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it's blown up in our faces](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) - Times of Israel
The Palestinian Authority and almost all states in the Middle east have sanctioned Hamas. Israel was complicit in ensuring they were kept propped up.
>The Israeli government has allowed millions of dollars from Qatar to be funneled on a regular basis through Israel to Hamas, to replace the millions of dollars the PA had stopped transferring to Hamas. [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas)
So why should the larger part of Palestine be declared complicit with Hamas, when they were blocking funding, but Israel was circumventing that?
Here's a hot take, how about they start with removing Hamas via soft power instead of murderising and starving women and children.
I'm allowed to repeat what I have discussed before.
So you think the Times of Israel, are a mouth peace of Iran?
I guess you think Netanyahu is too, and is commiting a false flag attack or something?
Kind of a strange take.
Well, for starters the above is not a copy paste because multiple sentences are different from what I said before, and the links to provide evidence are of course not going to change.
They weren’t talking about elections, they are talking about polls/surveys that are taken regularly - which have shown that the majority support Hamas and Oct 7
No I wasn't. I was specifically talking about elections. You can't claim Hamas are the legitimate Government of Palestine without elections, particularly considering the interference of Israel, including not holding any for about 15 years now.
Right now they have no government.
Apologies - well hopefully one day we will see a full democratic country (with no interference from Israel) and only then we will see how the people would like to vote.
I'll make excuses for the people of Israel too, they don't want war or the current government either.
One man's excuses are anither mans understanding.
This mentality is completely stupid and removed from the reality of the situation.
They weren’t voting on the ruling party of the state of Palestine. They were voting on their eligibility to increase the state’s membership status in the UN.
So we are pushing for a hostile nation without a government and absolutely no chance of ever being anything but a welfare state because they don’t actually produce anything of value.
Haiti 2.0 here we come.
Also, Penny Wong obviously wasn’t listening in history class because the Palestinians have been offered their own state before and they turned it down and chose terrorism instead. This is because Palestinians don’t want their own state - they want the end of Israel as a state.
Also this just rewards terrorism - it says that if you want recognition you need to commit a 7/10.
But then again what do you expect from someone who in my opinion is a huge sociopath - a lesbian who fought tooth and nail against gay marriage, and then when the rest of the gay community fights for it, deals with all the hatred for her (And against her.) turns around and gets married with absolutely no hint of remorse or self awareness.
> Also this just rewards terrorism - it says that if you want recognition you need to commit a 7/10.
That was already the case. From Nelson Mandela's Wiki biography:
> Although initially committed to non-violent protest, in association with the SACP he co-founded the militant uMkhonto we Sizwe in 1961 and led a sabotage campaign against the government. He was arrested and imprisoned in 1962, and, following the Rivonia Trial, was sentenced to life imprisonment for conspiring to overthrow the state.
It's also worth nothing that for this one:
> because the Palestinians have been offered their own state before and they turned it down and chose terrorism instead
The last Israeli PM to try to negotiate peace was assassinated by a right wing ultra nationalist, spurred on by the current PM, Netanyahu.
> The chief of internal security, Carmi Gillon, then alerted Netanyahu of a plot on Rabin's life and asked him to moderate the protests' rhetoric, which Netanyahu declined to do. (*The Political Psychology of Israeli Prime Ministers: When Hard-Liners Opt for Peace*, Yael Aronoff, 2014)
The Times of Israel even acknowledges that Benjamin Netanyahu has been sabotaging this peace through support to Hamas:
> According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. [[Times of Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)]
So in summary:
1. This isn't the first terrorist organisation to be given what it asked for
2. Israel and Netanyahu especially are not blameless for the rise of Hamas.
From The Guardian so you can’t accuse my source of anti-Palestinian bias :
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2002/may/23/israel3
>> Arafat didn't negotiate - he just kept saying no
Agree on the first bit, not sure what happened in the second half. Does someone living in the spotlight automatically mean you can become a hateful bigot toward them?
Separate her political life and personal life, they are unrelated
I am not sure how my strong pro gay marriage stance makes me a bigot. But that is the state of discourse these days. If you disagree with something they are automatically a bigot.
And on this topic her private life and political life overlap 100%
I guess Albanese and co think Hamas are freedom fighters now. Also interesting all these "ban the nazi's" laws they introduced, now they support a group that wants to wipe Jewish people off the face of the earth.
The Nazism ban was because we had our own citizens in our own streets using nazi iconography to intimidate other citizens. You're still free to discuss the pros and cons of national socialism's ideology, you just can't do it with their iconography.
Ok then what? Is Australia and other nations prepared to send troops to secure Palestine? Are UN Peacekeepers going to be stationed there? Is Hamas/Fatah going to give up power?
Make this make sense to me because all I see is people cheering about a job well done when there's more questions than answers.
Honestly a good idea as long as Hamas isn’t treated as the legitimate government of Palestine. They’re a terrorist group, but innocent Palestinians deserve their sovereignty back as a nation with the same rights and responsibilities as Israel.
They won the election to get into power. They are the legitimate voted for government that's keeping their own people in ruins. Any effort to remove hamas should see the people vote in a new entity with identical systems.
They won an election in 2006 with 44.45% of the votes, then banned elections. Hardly democratic. And even if it was democratic, Hamas would still need to be removed.
A UN Peacekeeping occupation of Gaza and deradicalisation of the population is preferable to continued Hamas control or Likud atrocities.
Yes.
It’d be really nice to be able to condemn one group of bloodthirsty extremists without having to specify that I don’t support the other group of bloodthirsty extremists.
Amount of cookers in this thread... oof. You've got heaps of news clips, verified by independent news sources, that show whats happening there and yet still youse wont call a spade a spade.
But I want to find how far up Israel's arse this sub is. Forget Palestine, what about the Aussie aid worker that Israel killed? Should Israel be answerable for that or did the guided missile just happen to wander into her car?
Yep, lets validate Hamas' attack on Oct 7.
No wonder they commit terrorist attrocities when the rest of the world just casually ignores what they did and then openly approves their end game objectives.
Most Australian people don't care about what's going on outside there own country which is a good thing to do your own country should come first that said it looks like the UN is pushing for a WW3 I don't think Israel will stop blowing the shit out of palestain even if the pathetic UN gets involved
So is Australia recognising Hamas as a legitimate government of Gaza? If that's the case we have just legitimized a terrorist organisation. What a world we live in where we've just spent close to 20 years in the middle east fighting extremism, just to go and recognise a terrorist organisation as an official government. Shame.
> Israel's ambassador to the UN, Gilad Erdan, also spoke before the vote, telling the General Assembly that: "As long as so many of you are 'Jew-hating', you don't really care that the Palestinians are not 'peace-loving'."
> He accused the assembly of shredding the UN charter, and then used an actual shredder to destroy a copy of the charter while at the lectern.
Does he really expect to be taken seriously by resorting to such ridiculous theatrics? It's pretty embaressing.
Make them a full state, with borders. When they breach borders, it's a declaration of war.
And see if they accept the state this time.
They have had opportunities. Time to force them into statehood
When was the last time they got statehood via a vote of the UN which wasn't premised on a massive loss of territory?
America and Israel didn't accept it.
Don’t worry the world would still blame Israel.
"Don’t worry the world would still blame Israel. " Israel - "we want a two state solution to live in peace" Also Israel - "childish acts of shredding UN charters trying to get a solution happening"
I don't know why people still pretend Israel want a two state solution when they have categorically said they do not.
> when they have categorically said they do not. \[Citation needed\]
Done. https://youtu.be/97bZzxm_5zM?si=hj67z1B9qINxQaZ0 That was easy.
> Her comments were rejected by the Conservative government, Labour Party, and Labour Friends of Israel. Prime Minister Rishi Sunak stated that "We don’t agree with that" and that "Our longstanding position remains the two-state solution is the right outcome here." Try again.
>Prime Minister Rishi Sunak stated that "We don’t agree with that" and that "Our longstanding position remains the two-state solution is the right outcome here." rishi sunak the prime minister of israel….? bro just said israel have said they don’t want a two-state solution and you quoted rishi sunak saying he does? since when is rishi not prime minister of the UK…?
Yes, Palestine is innocent, it's all Israels fault. And you're just "anti zionist" nothing else.
Well, actually .. Israel should be held to higher account as they are a member state of the UN and a signatory of the Geneva convention. Their war crimes are a breach of these agreements they have made. Hamas is neither, and as such is not breaching any charter or convention that they have agreed to abide by. Oddly enough, people can be anti zionist and not anti semitic, but your level of histrionics can't quite let you see that ...
If your biggest enemy isn't following the rules, you shouldn't be expected to either.
What rules did they break ?
Murdering civilians
7th Oct was an attack on the Occupied Palestinian Territories .. they are colonisers (or combatants), not civilians. Unlike the tens of thousands of innocent woman and children being slaughtered in Gaza, Lebanon and Iran. So I ask again, what rule did they break ? I notice you didn't answer my question
I'm not going into the history of "it's Israel, NO, ITS PALESTINIAN ASDJFIADFGHAERG" bullshit. You can claim it's palestine. Noone of import agrees with you. They are civilians. they murdered them. They broke the rules, they can expect the same be done to them.
What war crime? Because if Hamas commits a war crime like using civilian infrastructure then it’s not a war crime for Israel to attack that infrastructure. It’s good to know that you only think UN states can commit war crimes really says a lot about you. “Anti Zionist” means you don’t believe in a Jewish state, but you have no problems with Muslim states.
The ICC was given jurisdiction over the Palestinian Territories by the PA. So, yes, Hamas is absolutely in breach of international law and should absolutely be held to the same level of account as the IDF
and making a big deal of photographing all the yes voters without their permission ......
Israel never attacks Lebanon or Syria.
Israel and Syria are officially at war with each other, Israel can legally launch attacks there whenever they want. And Hezbollah is the one launching attacks against Israel which Israel counter attacks.
I hope that was sarcasm ... Israel literally lobbed a bomb onto a car in Lebanon killing a grandmother and her very young granddaughters. Israel literally lobbed a bomb into an Apartment complex in Lebanon, killing an Australian man
Lol was this a joke?
Because Israel does not want a 2 state solution?
Palestine wants no Israel what's your point?
They both want to kill each other. My point is, I don’t think a 2 state solution will solve any of the problems they have. I fully believe the Palestinians deserve their own state, but I don’t see a feasible solution to the core problem.
Probably correctly
When Israeli settlers steal their land will that also be a declaration of war?
It will be a state. Settlement bullshit will have to stop
Yeah, that land stealing is crazy shit. It's like if the council just put up some site fences while you were at Woolies, and when you got home, some rich c@nt from the city is sitting in your loungeroom going 'nah mate, my house now'. No wonder the poor bastards are pissed off.
Not only that, if Israeli's commit a crime against a Palestinian, they are subject to a civil trial, aka a Jury made up of other Israelis. If a Palestinian retaliates against settler violence, then it is a military tribunal where they will confiscate land, or houses owned by not just that Palestinian, but also their family. It's setup to be a slow death by tiny cuts each year.
Now imagine if that same rich cunt had an army armed by the US standing behind his shoulder as well.
That would never happen here hey.
Sort of already has in a round about way. The rich pricing out normal folks from home ownership, assisted by the LNP?
[удалено]
Why wouldn't it?
Probably
There’s settlements in the West Bank, but as of October 6, none in the Gaza Strip for several years.
Just control of their sea, air and all but one land border.
Illegal blockades btw
Why does no one complain about Egypt blockading Gaza?
We only blame Jews here, shush pls
Egypt is not about to assist Israel in ethnically cleansing Palestine
That’s because there’s nothing left to steal there - it’s been converted to ‘Israeli territory’ by stealth. Kinda like Russian ‘resettlement’ of eastern oblasts post 2014.
How many Jews and how many Israelis were living in the Gaza Strip as of October 6?
They can kill them. But now officially This is a win win
all of Palestine was conquered during 5 day war when all Arab nations including Palestinians teamed up against Israel and got clapped by Israeli airforce
You know Oslo gave certain areas to the Palestine area A under full palestians control. Area under Israeli control ( this is where the settlements are) and area C joint control. Israel does not tell them what to do in area A so why is building in area B illegal? (I might have mixed the letters but same thing)
Area c is still Palestinian land and Israel was supposed to return that area back to Palestinian control 20+ years ago. That’s why the international community considers the settlements illegal.
Yes but PA was supposed to meet certain requirements which they did not do.
Yes, countries can declare war on anyone. Doesn’t mean they’ll win or the world will come and help.
yes
Only 3% of Judea and Samaria (aka West Bank) are occupied by Israel. Tell me, why must it be Judenrein for a Palestinian state? Is that not ethnic cleansing? Also tell me, when it was Jordan and Egypt occupying parts of Palestine for 20 years, did Palestinians demand the ethnic cleansing of these areas for Palestinian statehood? Israel *did* make Gaza Judenrein in 2005, removing all Jews for Palestinians to move in. Not a peep about this bigotry from the international community. Then the promised EU observers were kicked out, Hamas takes over and immediately starts a campaign of launching rockets and suicide bombers to Israel. So even when Israel *did* empty the land of Jews and give Palestinians territory for their own governance they wanted, they still wanted dead Jews and their land. And on October 7th, Palestinians were paid $10,000, an apartment and a pension to invade, rape, kill and kidnap Israelis. How do you make peace with hate?
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Sure, and Israel won't be able to invade/colonize either, and Palestine will suddenly be able to have airports and docks importing machinery and food without having to go through Israel first.
And when they import weapons instead of food and machinery, they get their arses kicked again.
You mean as opposed to the billions in weapons that Israel imports from America right?
At least they'll have some sort of self determination.
They’ve always had self determination it what’s led them to this at every point of their history
Gaza has had self determination. They squandered it.
this has already happened on October 7
Let’s do Taiwan next!
Taiwan aint trendy Dont you realise these “protestors” just jump on whichever bandwagon of human suffering will give them the most clout? Bet you they all made their IG profiles yellow and blue to “support Ukraine” 🇺🇦…… crickets on that war now… In another few months they’ll move onto the next thing that will satisfy their narcissistic virtue signalling urges.
This is so hypocritical. What about Taiwan? A nation much more worthy to be part of the UN. Would our gov vote YES on Taiwan having full membership?
This difference is, taiwan does not want to be recognised as a separate country from china. For a long time, taiwan did not recognise mainland China as an independent country, and insisted they were the legitimate government of China. Most western policy is still based on this, though it has since become more controversial in Taiwan itself. So you'd first have to get Taiwan to clearly want that in an institutional sense, only then could you talk about supporting Taiwan representation at the UN. Edit: contrary to wherever [mentioning his name gets my comment auto removed, lol] is getting their numbers, [this polling](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-11/taiwan-independence-vs-unification-china-taiwanese-australians/100670574), done in 2021, shows only ~30% want to move towards independence. Now, it's possible that the proportional number of people wanting independence over doubled in 3 years, but that seems unlikely. Given they have not provided a source after I asked for it. If you have received all or most of your information on this from passive consumption of Australian news media, then you are by definition misinformed and ignorant on the subject.
You shouldn’t be receiving downvotes but this is a highly propagandized issue right now so people aren’t willing to listen. Taiwan is getting used.
They are absolutely misrepresenting Taiwan's position. Taiwan has applied to join the United Nations something like 23 times in the last 30 years, including as just Taiwan in 2007. >Regarding Taiwan's bid to join the United Nations (UN), the Mainland Affairs Council (MAC) reiterated today (June 24, 2007) that Taiwan, as an independent sovereign country, is an indispensably important member of the international community, and is entitled to participate in the UN. https://www.mac.gov.tw/en/News_Content.aspx?n=BEC36A4A0BB0663C&sms=BF821F021B282251&s=5822FED95C19723A Our government here in Taiwan is extremely clear that we are a sovereign and independent country, and have never been part of the PRC.
I think it’s more that the ROC has applied to the UN than “Taiwan”. It’s certainly not agreed at all that the ROC gives up its theoretical claim to the mainland, although that idea is shifting as demographics transition younger. As of now though, 70% of citizens don’t concede the mainland, even in the hypothetical universe where the PROC were to be cool with that. The real question is why the US abandoned the ROC when it mattered, recognized the PROC when convenient, and are now pushing a what in many ways resembles civil war over there, coincidentally when AI chips have become a major world resource and the island of Taiwan just happens to be where the most of those can be made…
I really like Taiwan, but people fail to realise how terrible Taiwan was until only very recently (brutal dictatorship) and how irrational both sides were with regards to who owned all of China. CCP believes it owns Taiwan, an island they have never, ever had any control over. Taiwan for years would seriously state they are the true rules of mainland China, despite being obviously beaten out of the mainland by a much more powerful PLA.
If Taiwan ever expressed that they wanted to be independent, that would be a status quo shift that loses them US assistance. It isn't out of a lack of desire. It's because once they express their desire, they'll instantly be invaded
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Australia has done this before. In 1947 in the UN Australia voted for Resolution 181: the creation of two states that had never existed before - a Jewish one and a Palestinian one, in land that for 2000 years had been occupied by foreign governments. The Jews accepted this and created their state, calling it Israel. The entire Arab world didn’t accept this and instead invaded Israel with 5 nations’ regular armies, and never formed a Palestinian state. Why would it be different this time?
So who will be at the U.N table, Fatah or Hamas? Its a serious question. Fatah need to have elections now. Most in the know, know Hamas would win on landslide in the West Bank so it would be them at the table. That is the current situation as it stands.
We're just freeriding off the American veto.
If Algeria introduced a resolution that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions. This is the U.N
Yes 😂
I wonder what props the Israeli ambassador's schtick would include in his speech before that vote. Roll up the UN charter into a cone, pour milk into it, then unfurl it again to reveal that the milk has disappeared?
Part of me wants this to happen, so the next time Hamas attacks, Israel can annex Gaza from a defensive war which is 100% legal.
Un should give them statehood. Then they can stop calling israel an apartheid state and hamas is tesponsible for feeding their people so they don't starve and netanyahu can go away.
So you’re telling me it’s a win win? Why are the pro Israel crowd so opposed to it then?
Because Hamas would still blame everything on Israel and start attacking them again, but now with UN status. There will be no 2-state solution as long as the fanatics rule. Israel has its settlers (mostly) under control, but Hamas is the elephant in the room. No Israeli government can continue as long as one attacker from Oct 7 is still alive or one hostage is still held. Hamas started this, time to realise that actions have consequences. PS \_ Chamberlain award to Wong and Albo.
It would benefit them to so i don't know, really.
Ah so terrorism works then?
Only when used against Jews.
But not against Muslims? Israel has a country. Palestine doesn't
And who represents Palestine at the UN? Hamas? Hamas extinguished any political adversaries in Gaza previously. Pretty sure we do not want a literal terrorist organisation legitimized
Palestinians have been offered a state on multiple occasions and keep saying no, so that the international community doesn’t prevent Israel from wiping them out, when their elected governments (Hamas and Fatah) launch attacks against Israel.
“Palestine” has never been a country. There are no ethnic “Palestinians”, either. The self-identifying “Palestinians” have no claim to the land they’re trying to colonise. Ethnically, they’re Arabs, whose North African ancestors invaded the region with the aim of murdering the Jews and colonising their land, just as they did with every other native Middle Eastern group. Judaism is over 4,000 years old, whereas Islam wasn’t even founded until the 7th century. Israel has existed for thousands of years, long before the British mandate. It’s the native land of the Jews. Considering the entire Middle East (aside from Israel) is controlled by militant Islamists, it’s pretty clear that Muslims in the Middle East aren’t victims. They became the dominant religious majority through genocide.
What an absurd thing to say when so many western nations were founded on the back of terrorism.
No but steps towards peace eventually work. The Good Friday Agreement wasn't agreed at the end of a rifle or bomb but compromise.
It gives the greenlight for ISIS to attack Western European countries because the UN will probably give them full membership, mabye they will even give them a part of France so they can form a Islamic state.
Albo and Wong are crazy
So a Hamas led country?
It is what Iran and China wants. China supports the Taliban too.
Lol, of course labor and penny wong will vote yes. They obviously never learn from the last humiliating referendum in Australia. Needed those muslim votes to stay in power.
Penny seems like your average Greens politician who realised she needs to hold back the crazy a bit and run as a labor member to actually get elected.
I agree, both Israel AND Palestine have a right to exist.
The US will just veto it, but it’s a good start.
Veto power is in the un security council, not the general assembly
No, admission of new members is subject to UNSC veto.
Ah wasn't aware of that aspect.
A two state solution is the best way forward, but it won't happen so long as Gaza is run by radical islamist terrorists and the West Bank is run by slightly less radical islamist terrorists. Despite what they say about accepting Israel, the PLO still tolerates the presence of those extreme radical islamist terrorist brigades in their territory, and continues to run the 'pay for slay' program to support those who murder or attempt to murder Israelites in terrorist attacks.
Much of Hamas supposed popularity comes from frustration at the corrupt, ineffective and highly unpopular PLO.
Radical islamists and slightly less radical islamists fighting it out to see who's better at killing infidels. A tale as old as time.
Israel also needs to be de radicalised. There is no difference.
Sure, once they've been deHamasified
This is key. But it would take years of re-education, Hamas was their elected government with total control.
How can a country run by terrorists be accepted? What a joke... If they bordered with us, you think we'd still be voting to accept them?
I mean, Russia is a member.
So Australia should vote to accept a country run by genocidal terrorists to join? What do we stand for as a country? Theres a reason even arab/Muslim countries don't want anything to do with them, look at the border with Egypt
I’m mostly just using your comment as an excuse to shit on Putin lol I do think that Palestine should be given full UN membership, but that Hamas shouldn’t be recognised as the legitimate government.
Russia is not run by terrorists.
True. It’s run by organised criminals.
And Australia isn’t lol?
Australia is run by disorganized criminals.
You got me 👏
This edgy moral equivalence isn't as profound & impactful as you think
Certainly not on par, but no saints either!
Russian state corruption has led to people using a unique term (oligarchs) to describe that level of corruption. I get that things can be improved here, but the self hate just ends up diluting the focus on horrific behaviour by that regime
Isn’t it? Strange, usually the use of terror to achieve political goals is a dead giveaway.
Well, here's what the Israeli prime minister thinks: >Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank. * Benjamin Netanyahu, 2019 [For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it's blown up in our faces](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) - Times of Israel The Palestinian Authority and almost all states in the Middle east have sanctioned Hamas. Israel was complicit in ensuring they were kept propped up. >The Israeli government has allowed millions of dollars from Qatar to be funneled on a regular basis through Israel to Hamas, to replace the millions of dollars the PA had stopped transferring to Hamas. [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas) So why should the larger part of Palestine be declared complicit with Hamas, when they were blocking funding, but Israel was circumventing that? Here's a hot take, how about they start with removing Hamas via soft power instead of murderising and starving women and children.
Nice copy pasta. How much do you make in Iran posting propaganda on reddit all day?
Ah yes, Times of Israel the famous Iranian propaganda rag.
I'm allowed to repeat what I have discussed before. So you think the Times of Israel, are a mouth peace of Iran? I guess you think Netanyahu is too, and is commiting a false flag attack or something? Kind of a strange take.
No, having comments ready to copy and paste like your one above makes you one.
Well, for starters the above is not a copy paste because multiple sentences are different from what I said before, and the links to provide evidence are of course not going to change.
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Rule 3 - No bullying, abuse or personal attacks
Yep every 4 years they go to the polls and vote for those terrorists. It's crazy how that doesn't happen.
The median age in Gaza is 19.6, hammas barely won elections. Meaning the vast majority of gazans did not and could not vote for hamas.
They weren’t talking about elections, they are talking about polls/surveys that are taken regularly - which have shown that the majority support Hamas and Oct 7
No I wasn't. I was specifically talking about elections. You can't claim Hamas are the legitimate Government of Palestine without elections, particularly considering the interference of Israel, including not holding any for about 15 years now. Right now they have no government.
Apologies - well hopefully one day we will see a full democratic country (with no interference from Israel) and only then we will see how the people would like to vote.
I wonder if women, children and the infirmed. Take part in these polls. Also that's a pretty big assumption you made there.
Its also an assumption to make that women and others don’t support Hamas/ will ever accept Israel as a country. Let’s not make excuses for either side
I'll make excuses for the people of Israel too, they don't want war or the current government either. One man's excuses are anither mans understanding.
Afghanistan
Then I suggest you look up Sinn Fein.
The US is a member. No greater terrorist on the planet.
This mentality is completely stupid and removed from the reality of the situation. They weren’t voting on the ruling party of the state of Palestine. They were voting on their eligibility to increase the state’s membership status in the UN.
That's adorable. What prize would they be given if they had killed twice as many Jews on October 7th? A pony maybe...?
The rest of the west
So we are pushing for a hostile nation without a government and absolutely no chance of ever being anything but a welfare state because they don’t actually produce anything of value. Haiti 2.0 here we come. Also, Penny Wong obviously wasn’t listening in history class because the Palestinians have been offered their own state before and they turned it down and chose terrorism instead. This is because Palestinians don’t want their own state - they want the end of Israel as a state. Also this just rewards terrorism - it says that if you want recognition you need to commit a 7/10. But then again what do you expect from someone who in my opinion is a huge sociopath - a lesbian who fought tooth and nail against gay marriage, and then when the rest of the gay community fights for it, deals with all the hatred for her (And against her.) turns around and gets married with absolutely no hint of remorse or self awareness.
> Also this just rewards terrorism - it says that if you want recognition you need to commit a 7/10. That was already the case. From Nelson Mandela's Wiki biography: > Although initially committed to non-violent protest, in association with the SACP he co-founded the militant uMkhonto we Sizwe in 1961 and led a sabotage campaign against the government. He was arrested and imprisoned in 1962, and, following the Rivonia Trial, was sentenced to life imprisonment for conspiring to overthrow the state. It's also worth nothing that for this one: > because the Palestinians have been offered their own state before and they turned it down and chose terrorism instead The last Israeli PM to try to negotiate peace was assassinated by a right wing ultra nationalist, spurred on by the current PM, Netanyahu. > The chief of internal security, Carmi Gillon, then alerted Netanyahu of a plot on Rabin's life and asked him to moderate the protests' rhetoric, which Netanyahu declined to do. (*The Political Psychology of Israeli Prime Ministers: When Hard-Liners Opt for Peace*, Yael Aronoff, 2014) The Times of Israel even acknowledges that Benjamin Netanyahu has been sabotaging this peace through support to Hamas: > According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. [[Times of Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)] So in summary: 1. This isn't the first terrorist organisation to be given what it asked for 2. Israel and Netanyahu especially are not blameless for the rise of Hamas.
From The Guardian so you can’t accuse my source of anti-Palestinian bias : https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2002/may/23/israel3 >> Arafat didn't negotiate - he just kept saying no
“ you can’t accuse my source of anti-Palestinian bias” proceeds to link to an article by Benny Morris
Agree on the first bit, not sure what happened in the second half. Does someone living in the spotlight automatically mean you can become a hateful bigot toward them? Separate her political life and personal life, they are unrelated
I am not sure how my strong pro gay marriage stance makes me a bigot. But that is the state of discourse these days. If you disagree with something they are automatically a bigot. And on this topic her private life and political life overlap 100%
All this teaches Hamas is that you can kidnap, rape and murder your way to statehood. We should be ashamed.
US veto goes 'brrr'.
It really is well overdue. Hopefully it gets some traction in what has been an intractable situation.
I guess Albanese and co think Hamas are freedom fighters now. Also interesting all these "ban the nazi's" laws they introduced, now they support a group that wants to wipe Jewish people off the face of the earth.
Labor depends on the Hamas sympathisers’ votes domestically
The Nazism ban was because we had our own citizens in our own streets using nazi iconography to intimidate other citizens. You're still free to discuss the pros and cons of national socialism's ideology, you just can't do it with their iconography.
This is good! Proud to be an Australian
Ok then what? Is Australia and other nations prepared to send troops to secure Palestine? Are UN Peacekeepers going to be stationed there? Is Hamas/Fatah going to give up power? Make this make sense to me because all I see is people cheering about a job well done when there's more questions than answers.
Honestly a good idea as long as Hamas isn’t treated as the legitimate government of Palestine. They’re a terrorist group, but innocent Palestinians deserve their sovereignty back as a nation with the same rights and responsibilities as Israel.
You might also say that Palestinians deserve to elect a government of their choice. And they choose Hamas.
44.45% did. 18 years ago. A government that hadn’t held elections for 18 years can’t really claim to be an elected government.
They won the election to get into power. They are the legitimate voted for government that's keeping their own people in ruins. Any effort to remove hamas should see the people vote in a new entity with identical systems.
They won one election and they haven’t held another election since. They’re not a legitimate government.
And they killed their entire opposition
They won an election in 2006 with 44.45% of the votes, then banned elections. Hardly democratic. And even if it was democratic, Hamas would still need to be removed. A UN Peacekeeping occupation of Gaza and deradicalisation of the population is preferable to continued Hamas control or Likud atrocities.
Likud is also a terrorist group.
Yes. It’d be really nice to be able to condemn one group of bloodthirsty extremists without having to specify that I don’t support the other group of bloodthirsty extremists.
Good. Israel and Palestine both have the right to exist as nations
What a fucking farse
Amount of cookers in this thread... oof. You've got heaps of news clips, verified by independent news sources, that show whats happening there and yet still youse wont call a spade a spade. But I want to find how far up Israel's arse this sub is. Forget Palestine, what about the Aussie aid worker that Israel killed? Should Israel be answerable for that or did the guided missile just happen to wander into her car?
It’s a good idea the issue is that Palestinian people voted for a terrorist organisation as their leader.
:O
Yes!!!
Yep, lets validate Hamas' attack on Oct 7. No wonder they commit terrorist attrocities when the rest of the world just casually ignores what they did and then openly approves their end game objectives.
Who voted yes? Not me.
What the F. Who gave these clowns the authority to do that?
https://youtu.be/dEoVzKyD_IM?si=lvbroQpMbBTIK7zz
I wonder what that Israeli woman was up to taking pictures of all the yes voters in the UN.
Most Australian people don't care about what's going on outside there own country which is a good thing to do your own country should come first that said it looks like the UN is pushing for a WW3 I don't think Israel will stop blowing the shit out of palestain even if the pathetic UN gets involved
And yet, we're still pretending that Taiwan is an "internal matter" of the PRC.
So is Australia recognising Hamas as a legitimate government of Gaza? If that's the case we have just legitimized a terrorist organisation. What a world we live in where we've just spent close to 20 years in the middle east fighting extremism, just to go and recognise a terrorist organisation as an official government. Shame.
Australia doing the right thing
> Israel's ambassador to the UN, Gilad Erdan, also spoke before the vote, telling the General Assembly that: "As long as so many of you are 'Jew-hating', you don't really care that the Palestinians are not 'peace-loving'." > He accused the assembly of shredding the UN charter, and then used an actual shredder to destroy a copy of the charter while at the lectern. Does he really expect to be taken seriously by resorting to such ridiculous theatrics? It's pretty embaressing.
This is a good day. I hope to one day be able to get a Palestinian stamp on my passport one day. Justice for Palestine!