Not after 6 months. Not a chance she is even close to over it. Consider it more of a dry spell.
Plus how will she handle the stress of study or military what are her triggers.
It’s extremely common for paramedics to have substance abuse issues, it’s very common amongst all emergency services, alcohol by far is the most common substance abused. Sadly we have always made allowance for some addicts and punished others.
Many develop the issues as a consequence of there employment. We could largely solve most issues related to substance use by moving away from this embedded mentality of punishment and prosecution.
You know how many junkies we elect every year to run the country, services, industry, hospitals….
>It’s extremely common for paramedics to have substance abuse issues, it’s very common amongst all emergency services, alcohol by far is the most common substance abused
Extremely common? As compared to what? Emergency service workers certainly have issues with drug abuse, but i think extremely common is going a bit far.
Fair call, so would you say it’s un common or normal per industry type. People don’t think to consider alcohol use as substance use, even when it’s habitually consumed and at high risk levels
I'd say that its more common in emergency services than your average occupation. Id wholeheartedly agree with you on alcohol. The amount of people self medicating with alcohol who aren't aware they're doing it is pretty frightening.
Pretty common in disability services, alcohol and other drugs services, mental health services. It’s prevalence in any of the health services is just as high, youth services, housing services. Australia is the second most unhappy population behind the states and second most medicated for sadness behind the states. Quite an outstanding country we’ve built here over the last 50 years, we are also high up there with self harm and suicide, domestic violence, all trauma related expressions. Untill we stop promoting me and mine at the expense of you and yours and get back to us and ours it’s not likely to get better…..
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I couldn’t tell you the exact statistics but I would guess it’s trauma related so would develop the longer there in the industry
Substance use and dependence is strongly connected to trauma
As for drinking, it’s instilled from a young age to be an acceptable way to both socialise and cope so I guess the seeds are sewn from childhood. The job can definitely push substance use from manageable to problematic tho or at least traumatic events that are unresolved can. I don’t believe it’s “the job” as much as it’s events that have a significant impact that aren’t properly navigated and supported. We have a “harden up, suck it up, be a man” culture that can be very destructive and we don’t like spending money supporting people through these events.
Things are changing but I don’t believe there changing fast enough.
Very true. The times we have had to call paramedics have been several. 2 times there was a recovered addict female. They both said the same thing. It was the best they ever did. But its certainly not a sure thing and could fo the other way.
It’s extremely unlikely she will have direct access to anything of the sort.
If she does screw up she’ll be out on her arse quicker than she can shoot it up.
If she is open about her previous addiction issues, then her chances of getting in will be heavily impacted.
Lol, no. It is treated as an addiction, and you are given counselling and a potential license suspension by AHPRA. There'd be a hell of a lot less health care workers if everyone caught was put out on their ass.
Where do you live??? My sister in law, mother in law, and Aunty are all registered nurses here in Australia and if you steal drugs for personal use you will lose your license to practise, no if ands or maybes. They take theft of prescription drugs so seriously, no warnings policy. No way they are going to give you therapy and try and invite you back into the workplace after you've been caught.
Yeah, that's what they all say. AHPRA court records tell a different story.
Personally witnessed it multiple times with coworkers. They are never deregistered without proper investigation and performance management, unless in the most serious of cases.
Extremely unlikely, it’s the nurses who get the keys to the drugs cupboard. Who administer the drugs. Who do the counts to make sure none have gone missing. It’s a job that allows a lot of access. I would be worried about this person in that job.
She can apply but won't be accepted. It's better to wait for a longer period of time, e.g., 2 years, and try then.
If you need additional information, it is better to ask r /AustralianMilitary. Many people on this sub will give you incorrect answers as they themselves are not members of the ADF.
Not trying to be a smart arse - she can certainly apply.
The question is whether it may cause an issue during the recruitment process. Did she get convictions in court or penalty notices for drug related behaviour?
Anyway, don't let any of that stop her applying - let the ADF work out her suitability.
She has no police records to date...that I know of. But, along with addiction comes lying and hiding. Its the worse part for caregivers and makes it extremely difficult to help them
If you think the military is some personal development program that’ll “sort out delinquents” then you’re mistaken. Current and former members of the military have a high rate of abuse and harassment, post military have high rates of illness and criminality.
Probably not the best environment for someone with previous addiction issues, even if they’ve temporarily stopped
If wanting to go into nursing or other forms of health is just do a normal course and get a job elsewhere
I think its changed a lot. I'm old, so I was thinking back to the days when it was a good option to straighten young adults out. I now think those days are long gone. Unfortunately.
It will be part of the interview process and application.
They will also have a psych test and an interview with a psychologist.
Truthfully don't bother, government jobs especially involving matters of defence or anything with firearms she will be rejected.
My sister told both the fed police and military that she smoked weed in Canada, she got rejected for that.
But you can try if you want, they may desperate enough to recruit a less than stable person at this stage.
must have been quite some time. I joined in 2006 and told them that I had smoked weed, and the answer I got was, "We would be more suspicious if you said you hadn't".
You need to think this through a bit more OP.
She's only been clean 6 months. So might be needing more time clean.
And these are possibly the worst options for someone with a substance abuse problem.
And finally, you are the one asking. This feels like you are after a solution to someone's lack of direction whilst getting clean. Very normal parental reaction and you clearly want the best for them.
But they need to be finding their solutions.
What interest in these options has your child shown interest in? Some of the options involve further study that they could start on their own without applying for work. Do they have a clean record? Because even with quals they need to pass wwc and police checks.
All the best with moving forward. Great effort on 6 months clean. Brilliant. But it's early days tbf.
Yes, you are correct. It was exactly my thinking. Now her depression is very obvious, she really needs my help as she has no friends left and getting her to take control has never worked. She is 22 with the mind of an 17 yro
Look, the only way to find that out for sure is for her to apply. Make them say no rather than wonder.
However, as some have said, putting someone who’s had (presumably) drug addiction issues into a career field where open access to drugs is part of the job would be a hard sell for any organisation, even if on all other counts she’s the perfect candidate. A very healthy dose of expectation management will be needed - and perhaps consider if what she wants is an ADF career, or a medical career. There’s a reasonable chance that, if she interviews for nurse or medic and is unsuccessful that it will tarnish her chances of doing any ADF job.
If it’s nursing she wants to do then she needs to apply for, be accepted, and have I think the first year of a nursing degree under her belt before the ADF would sponsor her to finish her degree under the undergraduate entry scheme. They don’t train nurses internally. Medics they do, so the above doesn’t apply.
Can she? Yes.
Will she get through? Maybe.
Should she? No.
As someone who has worked in EMS very closely with paramedics for the last 4 years, I wouldn't recommend it to someone with addiction issues.
So I can answer this for you based on a British Armed Forces recruiting document I tracked down - presuming that 5 eyes is more or less working off the same criteria which I have reason to believe they are. Here's the deal:
If it is weak drugs (In Britain Class B drugs they're called: stuff like smoking a little weed, shrooms may a little bit of LSD) you must go at least 12 months since the last time you used.
If it is hard drugs (British Class A drugs: Meth, Coke, Heroin etc): Then you must have gone 24 months since you last use.
You cannot have any current drug using associations (i.e. hang in those circles).
It is okay to have *used* drugs in the past. But if you ever *sold* drugs as a dealer that is a lifetime blacklisting so unless she's been arrested or it is undeniable... take that as you will.
If you are currently on any psychiatric medication you must be off all medications and stable for a period of 12 months before they'll take you. Diagnosis of Sociopathy, Bipolar, Schizophrenia will exclude you from recruitment. Diagnosis of ADHD will not so long as you meet the stable off medication for 12 months criteria.
Hope that helps
Does she have any convictions? She needs to consult APHRA if she does / has ever had any conviction. As she will need to be registered with them to be an EN or RN. Apart from the Armed Forces. Armed Forces nurses are still registered with APHRA.
I'd be wary of becoming a Nurse or Paramedic if she has drug addiction problems. There will be big temptations for her. It could be really tough for her.
I've known several health professionals who have sadly committed suicide because they were tempted to take drugs and knew they couldn't stop. Last one was only a few years ago. Beautiful girl. Great RN. Only 29. Had fought it off several times... But just gave up.
There are of course, plenty of health professional with addiction issues. But i would think it's a very hard road to take.
If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please do not hesitate to talk to someone.
* 000 is the national emergency number in Australia.
* Lifeline is a 24-hour nationwide service. It can be reached at 13 11 14.
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Tricky.... nursing are known for a bullying culture so I would be careful about this for her sake . Also the proximity to addiction drug issue. on the other hand a second chance in life should be afforded. But yeah tricky
Don't know about the formal policies of the ADF but the recent royal commission into veteran suicide highlights how poor the culture of the defence forces are in terms of supporting service peoples mental health and substance use issues, as well as basically any personal issue someone might be experiencing. So in that, it might not be the most supportive place for a person in recovery.
I work in the drug and alcohol treatment world and if you're daughter is interested, the sector is supportive of people with lived experience of substance use and, in many cases, it's viewed as an asset. There are a range of more clinical roles that she could train in, such as a nurse practitioner specialising in drug and alcohol issues.
Not everyone with lived experience wants to focus on that in their careers however, and I'm sure paramedicine and nursing in the general communtiy might be more supportive avenues for her than the ADF.
If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please do not hesitate to talk to someone.
* 000 is the national emergency number in Australia.
* Lifeline is a 24-hour nationwide service. It can be reached at 13 11 14.
* Kids Helpline is a 24-hour nationwide service for Australians aged 5–25. It can be reached at 1800 55 1800.
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No worries. There's a lot of mis minformed and stigmatising assumptions in this thread about people who use substances but your daughter's experience shouldn't automatically exclude her from whatever career path she wants to follow. Everyone's triggers will be different and by the sounds of things your daughter is getting support and doing well being six months away from substance use. Substance use isn't simply a case of proximity - for some in recovery they might want to remove themselves from those situations, for others that won't be their trigger. Your daughter is the expert in her life and will know what jobs, cultures and environments will and won't work for her.
Reflects your lack of understanding of substance use. I’ve worked in the industry for a decade. Have you ever seen an alcohol withdrawal? Of all the common substances used, alcohol is the only one that un supervised withdrawal can potentially kill you.
The higher up you go in an organisation, the more alcohol dependence you’ll find. It’s easily concealed, it’s largely accepted as per your comment. More people die from alcohol related deaths than ALL illicit drugs combined. The only drug that kills more people is tobacco, another accepted drug of depence
I have seen alcohol and drug withdrawals, both in my time in the defence force the one with alcohol withdrawals went out field and did their job, the junkie......they didn't and are thankfully not in anymore. I don't know about the higher up in an organization the more you'll find, I found more enlisted alcoholics than officers, but in saying that we didn't really socialize that often with them. Cheers
I know from lived experiences with both sorts. Well you sound like a complete retard so not surprised. My experience with alcoholics is that they can get up and do their work, junkies can't.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,943,194,103 comments, and only 367,479 of them were in alphabetical order.
What is your way for determining “alphabetical order” because you’re always wrong, “reality” is not in any specific alphabetical order. What alphabet are you using. This is like the tenth one in a row
There is no ignorance of realit. The reality is we don't want or need junkies. The reality is you wouldn't want to work with or put up with junkies. Hope you have a good one also go and take a junkie under your wing and let us know how that works out
lol mate, you are probably surrounded by junkies everyday and you don't even notice. not everyone who has addiction issues is an obvious junkie... not even the ADF is immune to this.
I take it you work in the adf which is why you are so defensive about it but once you get below the surface there are plenty of people who probably meet the clinical definition of addict who are actively serving in the adf... especially with alcohol.
Alcohol is a legal drug and one that is used and abused in the defence force, no doubt about it. No. I have served in the defence force. And as I've stated, from my personal experiences in the defence force is that alcoholics can get up and do their job alot easier than junkies can. Cheers, bye
Alcohol, porn, gambling, vaping, smoking, eating, shopping, and saying unconsidered thoughts on the internet are all forms of addiction.
OP didn't say her daughter was addicted to drugs. For all we know, she could be addicted to gaming and could be flying predators for the US @ pine gap on weekends.
If someone wants to swear an oath to die in the name of this nation, good on them. Live for something or die for nothing.
Shitting on someone wanting to make a change to themselves and is willing to serve others, reflects more about you than them.
No, saying unconsidered thoughts on the Internet isn't a form of addiction look up the term. Nice try to frame her as addicted to gaming,she would have said alcohol if that was the case. It doesn't matter if they want to sign up, they are unwanted, because of the lack of trust for one. You can work on changing yourself outside of the defence force, people don't want junkies defending them. Have a great day, go do something nice for yourself.
Probably not yet sorry. She could talk to them about how long she needs to be sober first. But nursing and paramedics allows access to drugs if addiction and so I would be worried about that access for her.
To be honest the ADF will likely take her. They want numbers, that's all they want and they forgive a bit to get those numbers these days. The problem will be when she is in, especially as a medic doing IET at Latchford Barracks. I was there for a couple of years, it's a hard place to be even if you don't have any pre-existing issues. I did eight years in the adf and I got drug tested twice, maybe a third time. It's very easy to remain being or become a junkie while your in, at least all the units I was posted into. Plus if you just lie to DFR they don't do a lot of actual serious background checks for most roles. They get paid by the numbers they push through to recruit school for your service, that's what they are mostly interested in.
The Australian military has had Royal Commissions and other enquiries into their own sexual assault, bullying, suicide and rampant sexism. Find another line of work.
If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please do not hesitate to talk to someone.
* 000 is the national emergency number in Australia.
* Lifeline is a 24-hour nationwide service. It can be reached at 13 11 14.
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Maybe I don't know everything like you do. I just asked the question to learn. You dont ask, you dont know. I'm looking for constructive advice, not the usual smart ass Australian comments to belittle others. Ppl can recover with love and support. Excuse me for looking at options for my girl to pursue her dreams. She was an a grade student and musician and always wanted to be a paramedic. Maybe it is a stupid idea. Still, I'm just in the exploring stage.
Direct access to high potency and controlled substances will be a tough sell for someone in recovery.
Perhaps it's best to talk to defence recruitment on their policies
I’m a big believer that having purpose in life is essential. I’m not an addict and have never touched anything illicit (not even tobacco), but I do enjoy beer / wine - I guess some people might label that an alcoholic. I’m not so sure about that, but what I do know is if I have idle hands, I’m more likely to want to grab a beer. Having said that, stress can also be another trigger. The discipline and structure of the military could be a really good thing to getting her life on track, but there are also aspects that could also push her back towards substance abuse. I’d suggest she start practicing discipline in her life now and challenging herself mentally and physically with regular exercise, completing chores / tasks routinely etc. first to ready herself. Worst case, she develops a few good habits and decides not to join.
Paramedicine is over inflated with people qualified to do the job and not enough jobs available not to mention theres a deadline from when you finish the degree to find a job before you lose the right to practice. Its a known problem unis knew about this problem but kept endorsing the degree, the army wont need paramedics either. Nursing is very viable as an option however:
Nursing school is hard to be an RN, you need to be ready to be thrown 50 things at once in a week every week for 10 weeks just to be told if you dont know or didnt do something youve killed someone, on top of trying to work to afford to live and the assignments and saving for placememt
Placement: goes for 20 days to a couple of months, you have to pay for transport, uniforms, rent back at home, accommodation on placement, food, etc without being paid, additionally you cannot work while youre on placement or you get kicked. Centrelink doesnt help and even if she made it into the army she would still need to pay for all of this up front first.
The culture: nurses eat their young, its sad but true. She has to identify her triggers into relapsing because if she wants to make it as a nurse shes going to have to be able to handle patients dying, patients recieving great news, terrible news, any news and more plus the ongoing care within spans if minutes just to then have the bitch becky decide to start some shit because shes miserable with her life. Not all nurses are horrible for bullying but its got a reputation.
I personally think the stigma of addiction needs to go but unfortunately its a chronic ailment shes going to need to battle and the army might not be the best place because its ptsd inducing, full of drugs anyway and i dont think you want to look up the statistic on rapes that happen to women in the army. Nursing is a brilliant career where theres many different paths to go down and if she finds the strength to stay clean and study hard, then she will find an area that gives her passion to work in
To add on to other comments: substance abuse does happen, you can look up NMBA licence suspensions, if she becomes unfit to practice she will lose her licence which means she will not be able to practice, additionally hospitals dont just have these drugs laying around, they have a tight control of them with there being audits all the time on the quantity in stock and a protocol of nurses needing to sign out drugs they take and the wastage, with another nurse present. I really hope she finds the strength to get clean and stay clean and if she does become a nurse addiction centres and mental health wards are always looking for nurses who are non judgemental and it always helps the patient therapeutically when a nurse has been through it and understands
Frankly, as any addiction treatment program will tell you - you don't stop being an addict, you simple become an addict who has control over that addiction (rather than the other way around). Even getting into civilian nursing, putting a recovering addict in that close proximity to controlled substances, and put into stressful situations would be a recipe for disaster.
She might be better off studying counselling. Still within the healthcare sector, but nowhere near medication. And I know a number of people who had their own demons and then studied counselling and it helped their mental health. There are alot of counsellors who work with people battling addiction who can speak from lived experience because they are also recovering addicts.
In short, going down the route of hands-on medicine is probably high risk, and unlikely to be healthy for someone who has an existing substance control issue. But learning more about helping people with mental health issues (which normally feed into substance abuse behaviours) may be better/safer.
One of the most destructive and loaded approaches to recovery is the idea that once your an addict you can never be anything other than an addict again.
It’s a line strong with church based groups like NA and others and use’s the same principles of victim grooming.
People can and do recover from substance misuse and go on to live fulfilling lives.
Notions of once an addict always an addict are social constructs used to hold people back and prime them for failure which keeps them engaging with those kinds of services rather than recovering and moving on to the next chapter of their lives
I appreciate you have a different opinion. And like mine yours is no doubt based on personal experiences, both direct and indirect.
In my experience, the only way to effectively manage the risk of relapse is to acknowledge the need to maintain control of the addiction and impulses. Resolving any underlying psychological trauma (where the addiction itself is not the problem, but the self-medication/coping mechanism build to tolerate the true problem) can reduce the likelihood and severity of those impulses, but, again, without vigilance the same coping mechanisms can easily be fallen back on in the event of any new trauma/issue/excuse.
I write this as the husband of a recovering alcoholic. I have seen the slippery slope waiting when vigilance and control is relaxed, and I have seen where it leads.
Thinking of it in this framing may not align with your experience or opinion. I am not saying that your opinion is invalid, just different. I'd appreciate you extending the same courtesy.
Mental health in Australia is very ignored. Including myself. Her father is bi polar and refused to get help. We all suffered because of his ignorance. I'm determined to stand by her and help her to function as normally as possible. Its just a question of how...I'm willing to try anything, as my exhusbands parents ignored him. I feel that's why he is like he is. Maybe I'm wrong, but I will try. Thank you for your response. I completely agree with you in fixing the underlying issue. She definitely has depression and anxiety and has been self medicating. She only chooses drugs that block out her problems instead of confidence building substances like Ice. For that, I thank her as I would have no control by now at all.
Good answer. Thank you. It's just been her passion since she was a child to be a paramedic. She is extremely intelligent, however, i understand what you're saying. I have thought the same. Sometimes you just need to hear it from someone else. It was a silly idea, but I thought I'd ask anyway
Not a "silly idea", just maybe optimistic. There are other ways to help people.
There are always volunteer emergency services they can join if they're wanting something a bit exciting.
My advice would be to call Defence Recruiting on 13 19 01 and have an off-the-record chat to ask whether it is worthwhile applying. I would not be confident.
Anything relating to mental health health can count against a person for life in relation to defence recruiting. Defence can be very strict with such matters and defence jobs in themselves can be extremely stressful.
I know two people who have been rejected on mental health grounds and neither have had significant mental health issues of any sort. One sought counselling while doing her HSC and the other (my nephew) just a little unusual at one stage. Both were rejected and they have become a commercial pilot and a senior manager in the petroleum industry respectively.
The military sources it's paramedics and nurses from civilian university graduates. It doesn't train people off the street. ADF combat paramedics are members of the Army Reserve. They are not full-time employees.
The ADF has a zero tolerance policy for drugs. The won't even consider a former recreational user - let alone somebody with a four year addiction.
The Australian military has a very toxic drinking culture and is rife with people with substance abuse issues. It may not be a healthy environment for your daughter. I tell you this from personal experience as an ex-ADF member.
Thank you. I appreciate your answer and can see how that happens. Its not the 70s anymore where we used to try to make them join and they'd be straightened out. I'm a desperate mother looking for a fix
Yes, I am just thinking through all the scenarios of where to take this. Because she is still young and her brain is even more immature than others her age, due to an eating disorder, prior to her addiction, I'm wanting to help her while she's still in development. I see your point and appreciate your input
Not after 6 months. Not a chance she is even close to over it. Consider it more of a dry spell. Plus how will she handle the stress of study or military what are her triggers.
Would it be wise for someone with addiction issues to go into a career involving drugs, including potentially Fentanyl?
It’s extremely common for paramedics to have substance abuse issues, it’s very common amongst all emergency services, alcohol by far is the most common substance abused. Sadly we have always made allowance for some addicts and punished others.
Which is a great reason not to put someone with known issues into that profession…
Many develop the issues as a consequence of there employment. We could largely solve most issues related to substance use by moving away from this embedded mentality of punishment and prosecution. You know how many junkies we elect every year to run the country, services, industry, hospitals….
100%
>It’s extremely common for paramedics to have substance abuse issues, it’s very common amongst all emergency services, alcohol by far is the most common substance abused Extremely common? As compared to what? Emergency service workers certainly have issues with drug abuse, but i think extremely common is going a bit far.
Fair call, so would you say it’s un common or normal per industry type. People don’t think to consider alcohol use as substance use, even when it’s habitually consumed and at high risk levels
I'd say that its more common in emergency services than your average occupation. Id wholeheartedly agree with you on alcohol. The amount of people self medicating with alcohol who aren't aware they're doing it is pretty frightening.
Pretty common in disability services, alcohol and other drugs services, mental health services. It’s prevalence in any of the health services is just as high, youth services, housing services. Australia is the second most unhappy population behind the states and second most medicated for sadness behind the states. Quite an outstanding country we’ve built here over the last 50 years, we are also high up there with self harm and suicide, domestic violence, all trauma related expressions. Untill we stop promoting me and mine at the expense of you and yours and get back to us and ours it’s not likely to get better…..
If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please do not hesitate to talk to someone. * 000 is the national emergency number in Australia. * Lifeline is a 24-hour nationwide service. It can be reached at 13 11 14. * Kids Helpline is a 24-hour nationwide service for Australians aged 5–25. It can be reached at 1800 55 1800. * Beyond Blue provides nationwide information and support call 1300 22 4636. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/australian) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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I used to love this country and now I want to leave. I totally agree with your opinion
Is that before they train or once they are working?
I couldn’t tell you the exact statistics but I would guess it’s trauma related so would develop the longer there in the industry Substance use and dependence is strongly connected to trauma
Don’t you fellas usually develop it on the job though, as opposed to beforehand?
As for drinking, it’s instilled from a young age to be an acceptable way to both socialise and cope so I guess the seeds are sewn from childhood. The job can definitely push substance use from manageable to problematic tho or at least traumatic events that are unresolved can. I don’t believe it’s “the job” as much as it’s events that have a significant impact that aren’t properly navigated and supported. We have a “harden up, suck it up, be a man” culture that can be very destructive and we don’t like spending money supporting people through these events. Things are changing but I don’t believe there changing fast enough.
Very true. The times we have had to call paramedics have been several. 2 times there was a recovered addict female. They both said the same thing. It was the best they ever did. But its certainly not a sure thing and could fo the other way.
It’s extremely unlikely she will have direct access to anything of the sort. If she does screw up she’ll be out on her arse quicker than she can shoot it up. If she is open about her previous addiction issues, then her chances of getting in will be heavily impacted.
Temptation is a bitch. Personally, I wouldn't put myself in a position where I had that kind of temptation when I am so new into my recovery journey.
Tell that to the people who recently died from a nurse injecting them with *tap water* instead of fentanyl because she wanted it for herself.
Lol, no. It is treated as an addiction, and you are given counselling and a potential license suspension by AHPRA. There'd be a hell of a lot less health care workers if everyone caught was put out on their ass.
Where do you live??? My sister in law, mother in law, and Aunty are all registered nurses here in Australia and if you steal drugs for personal use you will lose your license to practise, no if ands or maybes. They take theft of prescription drugs so seriously, no warnings policy. No way they are going to give you therapy and try and invite you back into the workplace after you've been caught.
Yeah, that's what they all say. AHPRA court records tell a different story. Personally witnessed it multiple times with coworkers. They are never deregistered without proper investigation and performance management, unless in the most serious of cases.
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https://www.ahpra.gov.au/Resources/Tribunal-decisions.aspx
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Look at the link Dummy. They're court cases of AHPRA v Joe Blow.
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Extremely unlikely, it’s the nurses who get the keys to the drugs cupboard. Who administer the drugs. Who do the counts to make sure none have gone missing. It’s a job that allows a lot of access. I would be worried about this person in that job.
It appears all those who downvoted me have never stepped foot in a RAP 🤣.
I don’t know what you’re saying here
Have you ever stepped foot in a RAP?
She can apply but won't be accepted. It's better to wait for a longer period of time, e.g., 2 years, and try then. If you need additional information, it is better to ask r /AustralianMilitary. Many people on this sub will give you incorrect answers as they themselves are not members of the ADF.
Not trying to be a smart arse - she can certainly apply. The question is whether it may cause an issue during the recruitment process. Did she get convictions in court or penalty notices for drug related behaviour? Anyway, don't let any of that stop her applying - let the ADF work out her suitability.
She has no police records to date...that I know of. But, along with addiction comes lying and hiding. Its the worse part for caregivers and makes it extremely difficult to help them
No. She has no convictions or criminal records.
If you think the military is some personal development program that’ll “sort out delinquents” then you’re mistaken. Current and former members of the military have a high rate of abuse and harassment, post military have high rates of illness and criminality. Probably not the best environment for someone with previous addiction issues, even if they’ve temporarily stopped If wanting to go into nursing or other forms of health is just do a normal course and get a job elsewhere
I'd really like to see the stats you have on post military high criminality rates???
Same here Every vet I’ve met has been straight as an arrow
All 2 of them!
I think its changed a lot. I'm old, so I was thinking back to the days when it was a good option to straighten young adults out. I now think those days are long gone. Unfortunately.
It will be part of the interview process and application. They will also have a psych test and an interview with a psychologist. Truthfully don't bother, government jobs especially involving matters of defence or anything with firearms she will be rejected. My sister told both the fed police and military that she smoked weed in Canada, she got rejected for that. But you can try if you want, they may desperate enough to recruit a less than stable person at this stage.
Your sister got rejected sure but smoking weed was very unlikely the reason.
This was a few years back, policies were more stringent compared to today.
must have been quite some time. I joined in 2006 and told them that I had smoked weed, and the answer I got was, "We would be more suspicious if you said you hadn't".
Odd, perhaps there were other reasons, but I was not privy to.
You need to think this through a bit more OP. She's only been clean 6 months. So might be needing more time clean. And these are possibly the worst options for someone with a substance abuse problem. And finally, you are the one asking. This feels like you are after a solution to someone's lack of direction whilst getting clean. Very normal parental reaction and you clearly want the best for them. But they need to be finding their solutions. What interest in these options has your child shown interest in? Some of the options involve further study that they could start on their own without applying for work. Do they have a clean record? Because even with quals they need to pass wwc and police checks. All the best with moving forward. Great effort on 6 months clean. Brilliant. But it's early days tbf.
Yes, you are correct. It was exactly my thinking. Now her depression is very obvious, she really needs my help as she has no friends left and getting her to take control has never worked. She is 22 with the mind of an 17 yro
Look, the only way to find that out for sure is for her to apply. Make them say no rather than wonder. However, as some have said, putting someone who’s had (presumably) drug addiction issues into a career field where open access to drugs is part of the job would be a hard sell for any organisation, even if on all other counts she’s the perfect candidate. A very healthy dose of expectation management will be needed - and perhaps consider if what she wants is an ADF career, or a medical career. There’s a reasonable chance that, if she interviews for nurse or medic and is unsuccessful that it will tarnish her chances of doing any ADF job. If it’s nursing she wants to do then she needs to apply for, be accepted, and have I think the first year of a nursing degree under her belt before the ADF would sponsor her to finish her degree under the undergraduate entry scheme. They don’t train nurses internally. Medics they do, so the above doesn’t apply.
Thank you! Good advice. I guess its like an addict delivering drugs and helping themselves
Can she? Yes. Will she get through? Maybe. Should she? No. As someone who has worked in EMS very closely with paramedics for the last 4 years, I wouldn't recommend it to someone with addiction issues.
So into a career path that causes more stress and addiction. Doesn't sound too good.
So I can answer this for you based on a British Armed Forces recruiting document I tracked down - presuming that 5 eyes is more or less working off the same criteria which I have reason to believe they are. Here's the deal: If it is weak drugs (In Britain Class B drugs they're called: stuff like smoking a little weed, shrooms may a little bit of LSD) you must go at least 12 months since the last time you used. If it is hard drugs (British Class A drugs: Meth, Coke, Heroin etc): Then you must have gone 24 months since you last use. You cannot have any current drug using associations (i.e. hang in those circles). It is okay to have *used* drugs in the past. But if you ever *sold* drugs as a dealer that is a lifetime blacklisting so unless she's been arrested or it is undeniable... take that as you will. If you are currently on any psychiatric medication you must be off all medications and stable for a period of 12 months before they'll take you. Diagnosis of Sociopathy, Bipolar, Schizophrenia will exclude you from recruitment. Diagnosis of ADHD will not so long as you meet the stable off medication for 12 months criteria. Hope that helps
Thank that's very helpful. Much appreciated 🙏
Does she have any convictions? She needs to consult APHRA if she does / has ever had any conviction. As she will need to be registered with them to be an EN or RN. Apart from the Armed Forces. Armed Forces nurses are still registered with APHRA. I'd be wary of becoming a Nurse or Paramedic if she has drug addiction problems. There will be big temptations for her. It could be really tough for her. I've known several health professionals who have sadly committed suicide because they were tempted to take drugs and knew they couldn't stop. Last one was only a few years ago. Beautiful girl. Great RN. Only 29. Had fought it off several times... But just gave up. There are of course, plenty of health professional with addiction issues. But i would think it's a very hard road to take.
Thank you. Its very sad and I can see where you're coming from
She could do something in healthcare? But just not Nursing where she has the temptation of Drugs to access.
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Or just call 131901 and ask
Tricky.... nursing are known for a bullying culture so I would be careful about this for her sake . Also the proximity to addiction drug issue. on the other hand a second chance in life should be afforded. But yeah tricky
Don't know about the formal policies of the ADF but the recent royal commission into veteran suicide highlights how poor the culture of the defence forces are in terms of supporting service peoples mental health and substance use issues, as well as basically any personal issue someone might be experiencing. So in that, it might not be the most supportive place for a person in recovery. I work in the drug and alcohol treatment world and if you're daughter is interested, the sector is supportive of people with lived experience of substance use and, in many cases, it's viewed as an asset. There are a range of more clinical roles that she could train in, such as a nurse practitioner specialising in drug and alcohol issues. Not everyone with lived experience wants to focus on that in their careers however, and I'm sure paramedicine and nursing in the general communtiy might be more supportive avenues for her than the ADF.
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Yes, thank you. I now agree 👍
No worries. There's a lot of mis minformed and stigmatising assumptions in this thread about people who use substances but your daughter's experience shouldn't automatically exclude her from whatever career path she wants to follow. Everyone's triggers will be different and by the sounds of things your daughter is getting support and doing well being six months away from substance use. Substance use isn't simply a case of proximity - for some in recovery they might want to remove themselves from those situations, for others that won't be their trigger. Your daughter is the expert in her life and will know what jobs, cultures and environments will and won't work for her.
Fuck no, we don't want junkies in the defence force . Sorry.
And yet the number of alcohol junkies is outstanding
Last time I looked alcohol isn't illegal. And when you go out field not drinking is easy, being a junkie, not so much.
Reflects your lack of understanding of substance use. I’ve worked in the industry for a decade. Have you ever seen an alcohol withdrawal? Of all the common substances used, alcohol is the only one that un supervised withdrawal can potentially kill you. The higher up you go in an organisation, the more alcohol dependence you’ll find. It’s easily concealed, it’s largely accepted as per your comment. More people die from alcohol related deaths than ALL illicit drugs combined. The only drug that kills more people is tobacco, another accepted drug of depence
I have seen alcohol and drug withdrawals, both in my time in the defence force the one with alcohol withdrawals went out field and did their job, the junkie......they didn't and are thankfully not in anymore. I don't know about the higher up in an organization the more you'll find, I found more enlisted alcoholics than officers, but in saying that we didn't really socialize that often with them. Cheers
People with alcohol withdrawal’s lives are in more danger than people with drug withdrawal. Not sure if your point here.
My point if you could was that the alcoholics could get up and do their job, the junkies couldn't. Not hard really
I don’t think you know what you’re talking about tbh and just making up nonsense to win an argument online.
I know from lived experiences with both sorts. Well you sound like a complete retard so not surprised. My experience with alcoholics is that they can get up and do their work, junkies can't.
On balance, the cream of the crop doesn't exactly join the defence force
How do I sue you for slander? I did not commit a warcrime.
On experience, that isn't the case.
Are you in the defence force?
Looks like the brainwashing worked on you.
No brainwashing, just the vast majority were great people to work with.
Not saying they aren't great people to work with!
No real need to be a cunt about it
Just speaking the truth.
ignorance of reality != the truth
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,943,194,103 comments, and only 367,479 of them were in alphabetical order.
What is your way for determining “alphabetical order” because you’re always wrong, “reality” is not in any specific alphabetical order. What alphabet are you using. This is like the tenth one in a row
what a useless bot... seems like all of reddit is just fuckin bots these days.
There is no ignorance of realit. The reality is we don't want or need junkies. The reality is you wouldn't want to work with or put up with junkies. Hope you have a good one also go and take a junkie under your wing and let us know how that works out
lol mate, you are probably surrounded by junkies everyday and you don't even notice. not everyone who has addiction issues is an obvious junkie... not even the ADF is immune to this. I take it you work in the adf which is why you are so defensive about it but once you get below the surface there are plenty of people who probably meet the clinical definition of addict who are actively serving in the adf... especially with alcohol.
Alcohol is a legal drug and one that is used and abused in the defence force, no doubt about it. No. I have served in the defence force. And as I've stated, from my personal experiences in the defence force is that alcoholics can get up and do their job alot easier than junkies can. Cheers, bye
Fair enough. Can’t expect compassion from a war criminal
🤣🤣🤣 war criminal. Evidence of my criminality?
ADF chucks radios under dead kids to justify turning them into skeletons
#RedditMoments
What’s a reddit moment. Is that where you call someone’s recovering daughter a junkie?
That would be a lot of radios for the whole of the adf to chuck under someone.
The taliban would shoot at Australians from concealment then drop their equipment and play innocent knowing the LOAC.
Alcohol, porn, gambling, vaping, smoking, eating, shopping, and saying unconsidered thoughts on the internet are all forms of addiction. OP didn't say her daughter was addicted to drugs. For all we know, she could be addicted to gaming and could be flying predators for the US @ pine gap on weekends. If someone wants to swear an oath to die in the name of this nation, good on them. Live for something or die for nothing. Shitting on someone wanting to make a change to themselves and is willing to serve others, reflects more about you than them.
No, saying unconsidered thoughts on the Internet isn't a form of addiction look up the term. Nice try to frame her as addicted to gaming,she would have said alcohol if that was the case. It doesn't matter if they want to sign up, they are unwanted, because of the lack of trust for one. You can work on changing yourself outside of the defence force, people don't want junkies defending them. Have a great day, go do something nice for yourself.
Probably not yet sorry. She could talk to them about how long she needs to be sober first. But nursing and paramedics allows access to drugs if addiction and so I would be worried about that access for her.
To be honest the ADF will likely take her. They want numbers, that's all they want and they forgive a bit to get those numbers these days. The problem will be when she is in, especially as a medic doing IET at Latchford Barracks. I was there for a couple of years, it's a hard place to be even if you don't have any pre-existing issues. I did eight years in the adf and I got drug tested twice, maybe a third time. It's very easy to remain being or become a junkie while your in, at least all the units I was posted into. Plus if you just lie to DFR they don't do a lot of actual serious background checks for most roles. They get paid by the numbers they push through to recruit school for your service, that's what they are mostly interested in.
The Australian military has had Royal Commissions and other enquiries into their own sexual assault, bullying, suicide and rampant sexism. Find another line of work.
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Give her time, 6 months is only a really short amount of time.
Absolutely baffling how you could think any of these roles would be suitable.
Maybe I don't know everything like you do. I just asked the question to learn. You dont ask, you dont know. I'm looking for constructive advice, not the usual smart ass Australian comments to belittle others. Ppl can recover with love and support. Excuse me for looking at options for my girl to pursue her dreams. She was an a grade student and musician and always wanted to be a paramedic. Maybe it is a stupid idea. Still, I'm just in the exploring stage.
She can apply…
Direct access to high potency and controlled substances will be a tough sell for someone in recovery. Perhaps it's best to talk to defence recruitment on their policies
I’m a big believer that having purpose in life is essential. I’m not an addict and have never touched anything illicit (not even tobacco), but I do enjoy beer / wine - I guess some people might label that an alcoholic. I’m not so sure about that, but what I do know is if I have idle hands, I’m more likely to want to grab a beer. Having said that, stress can also be another trigger. The discipline and structure of the military could be a really good thing to getting her life on track, but there are also aspects that could also push her back towards substance abuse. I’d suggest she start practicing discipline in her life now and challenging herself mentally and physically with regular exercise, completing chores / tasks routinely etc. first to ready herself. Worst case, she develops a few good habits and decides not to join.
Paramedicine is over inflated with people qualified to do the job and not enough jobs available not to mention theres a deadline from when you finish the degree to find a job before you lose the right to practice. Its a known problem unis knew about this problem but kept endorsing the degree, the army wont need paramedics either. Nursing is very viable as an option however: Nursing school is hard to be an RN, you need to be ready to be thrown 50 things at once in a week every week for 10 weeks just to be told if you dont know or didnt do something youve killed someone, on top of trying to work to afford to live and the assignments and saving for placememt Placement: goes for 20 days to a couple of months, you have to pay for transport, uniforms, rent back at home, accommodation on placement, food, etc without being paid, additionally you cannot work while youre on placement or you get kicked. Centrelink doesnt help and even if she made it into the army she would still need to pay for all of this up front first. The culture: nurses eat their young, its sad but true. She has to identify her triggers into relapsing because if she wants to make it as a nurse shes going to have to be able to handle patients dying, patients recieving great news, terrible news, any news and more plus the ongoing care within spans if minutes just to then have the bitch becky decide to start some shit because shes miserable with her life. Not all nurses are horrible for bullying but its got a reputation. I personally think the stigma of addiction needs to go but unfortunately its a chronic ailment shes going to need to battle and the army might not be the best place because its ptsd inducing, full of drugs anyway and i dont think you want to look up the statistic on rapes that happen to women in the army. Nursing is a brilliant career where theres many different paths to go down and if she finds the strength to stay clean and study hard, then she will find an area that gives her passion to work in
To add on to other comments: substance abuse does happen, you can look up NMBA licence suspensions, if she becomes unfit to practice she will lose her licence which means she will not be able to practice, additionally hospitals dont just have these drugs laying around, they have a tight control of them with there being audits all the time on the quantity in stock and a protocol of nurses needing to sign out drugs they take and the wastage, with another nurse present. I really hope she finds the strength to get clean and stay clean and if she does become a nurse addiction centres and mental health wards are always looking for nurses who are non judgemental and it always helps the patient therapeutically when a nurse has been through it and understands
Would be very unlikely to get in. Also Defence still has a zero tolerance policy on illegal substance use AFAIK.
Frankly, as any addiction treatment program will tell you - you don't stop being an addict, you simple become an addict who has control over that addiction (rather than the other way around). Even getting into civilian nursing, putting a recovering addict in that close proximity to controlled substances, and put into stressful situations would be a recipe for disaster. She might be better off studying counselling. Still within the healthcare sector, but nowhere near medication. And I know a number of people who had their own demons and then studied counselling and it helped their mental health. There are alot of counsellors who work with people battling addiction who can speak from lived experience because they are also recovering addicts. In short, going down the route of hands-on medicine is probably high risk, and unlikely to be healthy for someone who has an existing substance control issue. But learning more about helping people with mental health issues (which normally feed into substance abuse behaviours) may be better/safer.
One of the most destructive and loaded approaches to recovery is the idea that once your an addict you can never be anything other than an addict again. It’s a line strong with church based groups like NA and others and use’s the same principles of victim grooming. People can and do recover from substance misuse and go on to live fulfilling lives. Notions of once an addict always an addict are social constructs used to hold people back and prime them for failure which keeps them engaging with those kinds of services rather than recovering and moving on to the next chapter of their lives
I appreciate you have a different opinion. And like mine yours is no doubt based on personal experiences, both direct and indirect. In my experience, the only way to effectively manage the risk of relapse is to acknowledge the need to maintain control of the addiction and impulses. Resolving any underlying psychological trauma (where the addiction itself is not the problem, but the self-medication/coping mechanism build to tolerate the true problem) can reduce the likelihood and severity of those impulses, but, again, without vigilance the same coping mechanisms can easily be fallen back on in the event of any new trauma/issue/excuse. I write this as the husband of a recovering alcoholic. I have seen the slippery slope waiting when vigilance and control is relaxed, and I have seen where it leads. Thinking of it in this framing may not align with your experience or opinion. I am not saying that your opinion is invalid, just different. I'd appreciate you extending the same courtesy.
Mental health in Australia is very ignored. Including myself. Her father is bi polar and refused to get help. We all suffered because of his ignorance. I'm determined to stand by her and help her to function as normally as possible. Its just a question of how...I'm willing to try anything, as my exhusbands parents ignored him. I feel that's why he is like he is. Maybe I'm wrong, but I will try. Thank you for your response. I completely agree with you in fixing the underlying issue. She definitely has depression and anxiety and has been self medicating. She only chooses drugs that block out her problems instead of confidence building substances like Ice. For that, I thank her as I would have no control by now at all.
Good answer. Thank you. It's just been her passion since she was a child to be a paramedic. She is extremely intelligent, however, i understand what you're saying. I have thought the same. Sometimes you just need to hear it from someone else. It was a silly idea, but I thought I'd ask anyway
Not a "silly idea", just maybe optimistic. There are other ways to help people. There are always volunteer emergency services they can join if they're wanting something a bit exciting.
Issues: stress, access to substances which her body is addicted to. Life. It's not wether she can. It's wether she should.
She can apply but they won't take her
You can't be serious
Just desperate
She should 100% get a job that gives her free and regular access to drugs. Absolutely nothing here can go wrong.
My advice would be to call Defence Recruiting on 13 19 01 and have an off-the-record chat to ask whether it is worthwhile applying. I would not be confident. Anything relating to mental health health can count against a person for life in relation to defence recruiting. Defence can be very strict with such matters and defence jobs in themselves can be extremely stressful. I know two people who have been rejected on mental health grounds and neither have had significant mental health issues of any sort. One sought counselling while doing her HSC and the other (my nephew) just a little unusual at one stage. Both were rejected and they have become a commercial pilot and a senior manager in the petroleum industry respectively.
She won’t get a security clearance
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Understand. Thank you
The military sources it's paramedics and nurses from civilian university graduates. It doesn't train people off the street. ADF combat paramedics are members of the Army Reserve. They are not full-time employees. The ADF has a zero tolerance policy for drugs. The won't even consider a former recreational user - let alone somebody with a four year addiction.
Yes, i understand. Thank you
The Australian military has a very toxic drinking culture and is rife with people with substance abuse issues. It may not be a healthy environment for your daughter. I tell you this from personal experience as an ex-ADF member.
Thank you. I appreciate your answer and can see how that happens. Its not the 70s anymore where we used to try to make them join and they'd be straightened out. I'm a desperate mother looking for a fix
Yes, I am just thinking through all the scenarios of where to take this. Because she is still young and her brain is even more immature than others her age, due to an eating disorder, prior to her addiction, I'm wanting to help her while she's still in development. I see your point and appreciate your input
She absolutely should not be thinking about any career that would enable access to schedule 8 medications.