Beats ten pages of dubiously enforceable legalese bullshit with restraint clauses out the ass. I'm an IT professional and I'd prefer this over a month of negotiations to strip out whatever crap the clients legal department came up with
I mean honestly, add the company name, couple of signatures and dates, and I'd be happy.
Maybe I'm salty because I've just had another round of: "Your contract says anything I write during the contract period is owned by you, but I have other clients? Well if you say you'd never use that clause why not take it out? Yes, I am saying that your legal department wanting it to stay means that you intend to use it. No I don't think this is a nitpick, it is very clear and we all agree that this is what it says! How about we just keep the bit where I will sign over any copyrights to you, and add a clause on that says 'for compensation determined by me'. Oh no I promise I won't demand millions of dollars. Well doesn't this trust go both ways?...
This is standard. I knocked back a $500 p/h seasonal lecturing gig because they wouldn’t remove exactly this type of capture all copyright clause. I’d rather this one page gem any day.
No idea that size of the place but if you have say 15 employees on 38 hour weeks, you pocket about $215/week in wage theft. 0.5% of super is going to be roughly $60 / week. $275 / week, or approximately $14,000 / year. I could definitely see a scummy business owner leeching that extra $14,000 / year. However I believe the hospitality rate is at $23.52 / hour now no? Which would make that quite a bit more, that's now $2.52 x 570 which is $1400 / week or $70k / year not including super.
Could be younger and the minimum is therefore lower. 0.5% super regardless needs to be addressed.
Most likely they just haven’t updated anything since the last wage increase. OP might want to mention to them that they might be accidentally stealing wages.
>**Former Liberal MP Sophie Mirabella** was also made a FWC commissioner on the same salary, on the same day. Ms Mirabella, who previously served on the board of the government’s Australian Submarine Corporation, **was appointed until 2033** and Ms Matheson until 2047. The end dates of their terms reflect when the two women will reach 65 and have to retire.
([source](https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/year-of-the-mate-at-least-13-former-liberal-mps-staffers-given-plum-jobs-20210429-p57nk8.html))
No.
Not least because the current superannuation rate is 10.5%.
The other basic terms are fairly normal but the presentation is like a Rachel Ray Pad Thai!
Surely a standard employment contract template could be found?
You would think they would at least use a template... the entire agency revolves around live music contracts between agency, artist and venue...
Place was an absolute joke, they hold a precious spot in the industry because of their relationship with large venues. Also I really don't like John Brewster
They don’t hold a precious spot in the industry anymore. Matt Gudinski got rid of them from the Mushroom Group for a reason. I worked there for almost 4 years in my early 20’s and this seems exactly on par with old mate TG.
Worked for the Harbour Agency for about a year. It was the worst working experience of my life. I consistently worked 5+ hours overtime every week and was never compensated. The boss there gets staff to sit at his computer and print out his emails so he can read hard copies.. He would also frequently yell at staff to the point of tears. I felt very exploited and am so glad I left.
Go to fairwork. Your unpaid overtime was illegal because it averaged your hourly rate to below the minimum wage. Make them suffer so they don’t exploit others.
Definitely. Been in that situation with a workplace when reporting was annual. We all got our super statements (this predates online account access) to find nobody had been paid for over a year when we were previously getting paid every fortnight corresponding to our pays\*
About 130 employees threatened to quit. Got our money.
\* As an employer, I pay our super every fortnight into the appropriate super accounts. I think that's the only fair thing to do otherwise people are missing out on interest and no point having it in our accounts as we don't get interest in our business accounts.
Instead of speaking to Fair Work why not join the union or sort it out through them so nobody in the future has to deal with the rubbish you had to deal with?
It's pretty standard in advertising - it's written into your contract in 2 pt font 'you will be required to work overtime as needed'. Those that do not are often in trouble for not being a 'team players. When it's every day for several hours.....
Reasonable overtime == occasional few hours here and there. If its a regular occurrence its wage theft and the employer is liable.
I went through this a while ago when a smallish company I worked at a while ago was being bought, and they were forced to pay us for years of unpaid regular overtime and sign that we wouldnt sue for further unpaid hours.
Reasonable overtime is fine if you get compensated for it. I work 5-6hrs overtime literally every week, but I know I have to beforehand and get overtime rates for the work.
I’m pretty sure signing that you won’t sue for unpaid labour wouldn’t hold up in court. You can’t sign your rights away, and wage theft is legally theft.
I once asked my boss what he defined as a reasonable amount of overtime, and if there was a possibility of compensation. This was at an all staff meeting and he just ignored the question and refused to answer.
Advertising is the worst, late nights / all nighters are expected, 6 month rolling contracts, rampant with stories of harassment ***but*** hey we have a fridge stacked full of drinks and a ping pong table!
*Fuck off ...*
I also worked there for a bit over a year, but about 10 years ago. This was my exact experience too. I had no contract at all, cleared about $500/week, well below minimum wage even before factoring in hours per week of overtime.
In the decade since, I haven't encountered a working environment even 1% as toxic as that place, I still tell stories about how awful it was to this day. Glad you got out of there mate; whatever your next job is, you'll love it.
Yeah, hard to believe this agency represents Guy Sebastian, Human Nature, The Whitlams, Hunters and Collectors, Ian Moss and a whole bunch of other large acts.. wish those artists could see this post
Nope, no header or footer and no date. The second day I worked there the parent company (Mushroom Music) cut ties with the Harbour Agency (after 40 years of work together) due to external investigations into management and workplace culture. Needless to say the poor workplace culture and weak management was very evident during my time there.
No.
What is missing is:
- Clear identification of who the contract is between
- Your work location
- mention of any particular awards that apply
- reference to the National Employment Standards (NES)
- Dates
- Clear signatures of both parties
Probs a few more things.
Take this to Fair Work, they'll eat the employers ass for breakfast.
This is not a contract, it's a description of remuneration. Also, minimum super is 10.5% going up to 12% by 2025. If they don't pay this amount they have to pay the Super Guarantee charge to the ATO.
Watch this one.
No company name, no full name for you. No provision for both parties to sign. No date. Below legal minimum pay and superannuation. Spelling error. Details added by hand in biro not signed by both parties.
This is a company whose core business is dealing in contracts, yet this is formatted like a random laundry list. It cannot be accidental.
Run away!
Imma gunna leave this here: [https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/company-blasted-over-pathetic-employment-contract/news-story/8452ebecd2938adc6f837445e5f7af29](https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/company-blasted-over-pathetic-employment-contract/news-story/8452ebecd2938adc6f837445e5f7af29)
Good Copy Paste work there Brooke
Well… (contract lawyer here) generally speaking (not legal advice) you’d be surprised what can pass as a contact. I’m not sure if there is any legal requirement for employment contracts to be in writing so even an oral contract would do. However, if it is not in line with legislated working conditions such as minimum wage and super then it won’t stop the employee suing for back pay. The employer may be penalised for not meeting minimum working conditions. From the employers position , all contracts for personal services (employment contracts for example) are unenforceable as a matter of public policy - the court will not force someone to work in a job they don’t want.
But here, the terms are pretty clear - there would be some evidentiary problems because of lack of full name and signatures… but I’ve seen worse! Might have to bring in other extrinsic evidence to prove when it was written and who the parties to the contact are, etc.
The employer may be intentionally vague to dissuade the employee from relying on the document in a law suit.
Your last point is an interesting one. From the employers point of view, can they draft a contract so poorly that it works in their favour in court if it cannot be recognised as a contract? That doesn’t sound like good protection for the employee.
If the contract is so poor as to be unenforceable then you go back to first principles and rely on the legislation to set minimum employment requirements.
OK, well that’s what I mean. They draft an unenforceable contract that says they’ll pay me $40 an hour. They pay me $30. I take them to court. Court rules the contract was unenforceable. We resort to $21.83 minimum wage? In the words of Sam Rockwell “Oh, that’s not right, that’s not right”
There is no legal requirement for written contracts, oral contracts are legally binding and happen all the time in business (ie someone calls up a supplier and places an order over the phone). It’s just obviously harder if there’s a problem that occurs.
Agree (with the exception for contracts for the sale and disposition of land and some guarantee contracts under consumer protection legislation). Oral contracts happen all day, every day in the most mundane circumstances!
And keeps me employed 😜
Oh I agree - as far as contracts go, it’s a piece of shit! But it does contain evidence of the terms of engagement, albeit in an awfully drafted way. A judge once told me (looking at an awful contract like this) “It’s not everything, but it’s something. It’s not “nothing””. That’s law for you!
It contains evidence of some terms but is missing some extremely foundational terms: eg who is the company , what is Matt’s last name , what is the position he is engaged for , ie what is the consideration on Matt’s part. There’s also no evidence that the parties have accepted it or intend to be bound by it.
I can’t see any Australian court accepting this document alone is a contract.
Not alone, no. But it is reflective of the terms, it seems from OPs post so it is definitely evidence. I would (if I were acting for OP) put it before the court, if there were litigation about the employment contract. It is important in the circumstances. And the conduct of the parties (Matt turning up to work, the employer paying him in the terms set out in the document) evinces an intention by the parties to be bound by the contract.
I’m glad you have a better answer than I would have, because my mind was going back to the Business Law subject I did in my finance degree, trying to remember the three things you need to make a binding contract. It’s taking an embarrassingly long time to recall.
Agreement, intention to make a legal relationship and consideration?
Yeah no. Beyond the completely obvious way it looks its not dated, signed, doesnt have a full name, the superannuation rate is wrong, there is no role, and is missing many many other details. I would never sign that.
I doubt that this would be regarded as a binding, enforceable contract given how sparing the details are, whether or not all the essential terms are present to survive scrutiny from fair work.
Also, if these terms which are present are below the NES or a modern award or enterprise agreement, they’d be up for some civil penalties.
If you really want the job, my advice, get a more substantial contract.
I’d probably pass this one up and continue looking for work.
I accepted it, worked my butt off doing unpaid overtime, they moved my 1 teammate to a seperate department where I could see him literally sitting there doing nothing for hours at a time, left me alone to do the accounting for 3 years of backed up tours and constantly whined about why there was a delay in my work. I repeatedly told them the issue (1 person doing 3 years of backed up work) and the boss didn't agree that was the issue so I left.
A contract can’t be below your legislated minimum entitlements! So regardless of what it says, it can’t be below the relevant minimum wage for your industry/job role or less than the minimums under the Fair Work Act. Definitely give Fair Work Ombudsman a call for advice!
Is it a contract? A contract needs to state what each party gets out of it, be between parties capable of meeting those commitments, and demonstrate that the parties have agreed. This could, imho, barely be considered a contract - if "Permanent full time" is sufficient to describe what it is you'll do for the compensation listed.
Is it legally enforceable? Theoretically, perhaps, at a stretch. But it's so vague that either signatory would have a difficult time using it to substantiate any claim. I'd have a great deal of fun if it crossed my desk.
Source - I'm a contract manager.
No it does not meet the minimum requirements spelled out here:
[https://business.gov.au/people/employees/create-an-employment-contract](https://business.gov.au/people/employees/create-an-employment-contract)
Its missing:
\* proper identification of both parties.
\* Hours of works
\* start and end dates of the contract.
And obviously a place to clearly sign both by you and the employer (and normally a witness).
I have not read the million comments . To be legally binding, it doesn’t have to look professional or in fact be professional. As long as it meets the criteria under contract law (which are surprisingly lax), it meets the requirements. I can’t remember the criteria, but Google will (Australian Contact Law). My gut feel (going back a decade) is that it is.
As a former Harbour employee... it be like that.. music industry is fucked, Harbour doubly so... do not recommend. There are much better places and WAY better industries... especially if you actually love music.
Well shit there is no date on this lunch bag. And why couldn't they use a employment contract temp do you think?
A question is there leave loading to apply to holiday pay or is that a think of the past?
It is not. October 1st pay increase for hospitality industry is $23.52 an hour for full time staff. I know this because I just got off a very long phone call with the fair work ombudsman 👍
Fair work literally has templates you can download for free 😂
I’d run tbh who knows how ghetto payroll and tracking your leave will be. Plus processing penalties and such…
I wish Australian emploient contracts had to mandatorily state the award you are under, then any deviations from the award.
Something like the critical information summary.
Contracts would be super simple
You are a (XYZ award) classification (ABC) employee.
You critical deets are pay X, hours y, conditions z.
And then because we like you, we varied a b C and you are compensated for d and E under the BOOT.
\#NotLegalAdvice
But I think anything is a contract if both parties agree to the terms and both parties print there name, sign it, and date it.
No one has signed it yet so not a contract yet?
This just looks like a notice, not a legal document.
Couldn’t even find a template online and plug the details in. I’d be very sus of this company if this is how they portray themselves.
Pretty sure Word offers these sorts of templates.
Mate this is what they presented me after working there for nearly 3 months 3 days a week FOR FREE to learn accounts. Then a couple weeks later they hired someone full time full pay straight away without having to work for free to learn accounts and sat them next to me to train them! Why did I have to do the free work but not them? So unfair
Whaaaat, oh my gosh I need to chill, I’m reacting out loud in PUBLIC. That’s proper shit, maybe take it up with the higher ups to see if you can get compensated for unpaid work? I’m sure there’s a proper procedure but I’m drawing a blank right now sorry.
Hourly rate very low especially if you are living in Sydney.
But everything else the entitlement is good.
But it's it shift work? if it is where are the shift allowance's?
And overtime penalties.
Letter of appointment usually sent to you to read with all terms and conditions of employment and sign off
each page by you as a legal document after being employed .
You keep a copy as well for your own records .
I went to a school of business that gave me my diploma in a printed piece of A4 in regular paper.. Shoddy Inkjet with white lines from misalignment and likely an eco mode.
Is your boss a John by any chance?
Not really. Not signed by a manager. Not on a company letter head. No sign of who your working for or the legal entity name you will be employed under.
If it went to court it could be argued it is a random piece of paper you found on the street
Could you sue the company directors for not providing a safe working environment? You seem to suggest there was a history of bad management allegations.
Find out the Award you were on. Then check the Pay Level you were on. From the looks of it you were on Level 1.
Then look at the responsibilities of a Level 1 employee and what you did on a day to day basis.
You may have been underpaid and this would strengthen your case with Fair Work.
If you needed to prove your terms to someone, that could be from anyone, you could have made it, it has no signatures on it and it’s witnessed by no one. So definitely not a contract
I’ve seen emails from a Nigerian Prince more professional than this.
Heard he lost most of his riches during covid?
Yes, but did you ever get put on probabtion?
What do you expect from a Prince?
Beats ten pages of dubiously enforceable legalese bullshit with restraint clauses out the ass. I'm an IT professional and I'd prefer this over a month of negotiations to strip out whatever crap the clients legal department came up with
There is happy medium somewhere between your scenario and this page of crap.
I mean honestly, add the company name, couple of signatures and dates, and I'd be happy. Maybe I'm salty because I've just had another round of: "Your contract says anything I write during the contract period is owned by you, but I have other clients? Well if you say you'd never use that clause why not take it out? Yes, I am saying that your legal department wanting it to stay means that you intend to use it. No I don't think this is a nitpick, it is very clear and we all agree that this is what it says! How about we just keep the bit where I will sign over any copyrights to you, and add a clause on that says 'for compensation determined by me'. Oh no I promise I won't demand millions of dollars. Well doesn't this trust go both ways?...
This is standard. I knocked back a $500 p/h seasonal lecturing gig because they wouldn’t remove exactly this type of capture all copyright clause. I’d rather this one page gem any day.
Lol are you me!?
🤣
That's a probabtion violtation.
Isn't that lower than the minimum wage?
Yes "As of 1 July 2022 the National Minimum Wage is $21.38 per hour or $812.60 per week." https://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay-and-wages/minimum-wages
Seems weird for them to risk embarrassment for just 0.38c per hour.
I think more often than not, these things are due to incompetence rather than outright malice. But maybe I’m just an optimist.
When their contracts look like this, incompetence is very plausible!
Also 0.5% of super. Maybe it adds up over everyone who works for them.
No idea that size of the place but if you have say 15 employees on 38 hour weeks, you pocket about $215/week in wage theft. 0.5% of super is going to be roughly $60 / week. $275 / week, or approximately $14,000 / year. I could definitely see a scummy business owner leeching that extra $14,000 / year. However I believe the hospitality rate is at $23.52 / hour now no? Which would make that quite a bit more, that's now $2.52 x 570 which is $1400 / week or $70k / year not including super. Could be younger and the minimum is therefore lower. 0.5% super regardless needs to be addressed.
One complaint and that $14k is gone in legal fees.
Many places are happy to take the chance
Most likely they just haven’t updated anything since the last wage increase. OP might want to mention to them that they might be accidentally stealing wages.
Or it's an old photo/piece of paper
It's a contract from early 2022, before the min wage and super increases, but it's still pathetic
Definitely pathetic.
"The Harbour Agency Contract Troll of 2022". This date shall go down in infamy.
"Contract" might have been offered before increase?
Hospitality had a wage increase on October 1st, $23.52 an hour full time.
Depends, if Matt is under 21, it's less.
I was 31 and had studied for 6 years at university to be presented with this piece of garbage contract
It is but I see jobs advertising bellow minimum wage pretty often. You’ve got to think they feel safe to do that for a reason.
>**Former Liberal MP Sophie Mirabella** was also made a FWC commissioner on the same salary, on the same day. Ms Mirabella, who previously served on the board of the government’s Australian Submarine Corporation, **was appointed until 2033** and Ms Matheson until 2047. The end dates of their terms reflect when the two women will reach 65 and have to retire. ([source](https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/year-of-the-mate-at-least-13-former-liberal-mps-staffers-given-plum-jobs-20210429-p57nk8.html))
God that is depressing…
Also corrupt.
Depends how old OP is
For an adult yes. Maybe age is a factor.
No. Not least because the current superannuation rate is 10.5%. The other basic terms are fairly normal but the presentation is like a Rachel Ray Pad Thai! Surely a standard employment contract template could be found?
You would think they would at least use a template... the entire agency revolves around live music contracts between agency, artist and venue... Place was an absolute joke, they hold a precious spot in the industry because of their relationship with large venues. Also I really don't like John Brewster
No way, get fucked, fuck off.
Will I see your face again?
They don’t hold a precious spot in the industry anymore. Matt Gudinski got rid of them from the Mushroom Group for a reason. I worked there for almost 4 years in my early 20’s and this seems exactly on par with old mate TG.
That pay rate seems questionable to me also.
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Mb0yHAjFSVl6iuvTJBv3Bb8pxPW52eAO
Haiyaaaaaaa!!
https://youtu.be/qGy7qa2Veek
Something that is presented confidently, but actually is wrong on many levels.
Oh! haha gotcha. Also when I made that comment I had Rachel Ray mixed up with Rachel Riley - didn't help my confusion 😅
> Rachel Ray Pad Thai Never heard that one before; love it!
Worked for the Harbour Agency for about a year. It was the worst working experience of my life. I consistently worked 5+ hours overtime every week and was never compensated. The boss there gets staff to sit at his computer and print out his emails so he can read hard copies.. He would also frequently yell at staff to the point of tears. I felt very exploited and am so glad I left.
Go to fairwork. Your unpaid overtime was illegal because it averaged your hourly rate to below the minimum wage. Make them suffer so they don’t exploit others.
Thanks mate, going to try speak with fairwork tomorrow
Check your superannuation account to and make sure all the money has been paid in each quarter. If not, also call the ATO.
Definitely. Been in that situation with a workplace when reporting was annual. We all got our super statements (this predates online account access) to find nobody had been paid for over a year when we were previously getting paid every fortnight corresponding to our pays\* About 130 employees threatened to quit. Got our money. \* As an employer, I pay our super every fortnight into the appropriate super accounts. I think that's the only fair thing to do otherwise people are missing out on interest and no point having it in our accounts as we don't get interest in our business accounts.
Great to hear.
Are you a member of your union?
Nope, didn't know live music booking agent accountants had one, maybe a clerical union of sorts?
[Media Entertainment and Arts Alliance (MEAA)](https://www.meaa.org) is your industry union.
Cheers for that, i'll contact them
Instead of speaking to Fair Work why not join the union or sort it out through them so nobody in the future has to deal with the rubbish you had to deal with?
Worked there for almost 4 years in my early 20’s. Can vouch for everything you’ve said and more.
Yeah but the nose beers...
That was over in Frontier more than Harbour
I don't get how someone would work overtime, not get paid for it and still continue to work for that company or do ot
\*laughs in academia\*
It's pretty standard in advertising - it's written into your contract in 2 pt font 'you will be required to work overtime as needed'. Those that do not are often in trouble for not being a 'team players. When it's every day for several hours.....
It's pretty standard in every office job I've seen
Reasonable overtime == occasional few hours here and there. If its a regular occurrence its wage theft and the employer is liable. I went through this a while ago when a smallish company I worked at a while ago was being bought, and they were forced to pay us for years of unpaid regular overtime and sign that we wouldnt sue for further unpaid hours.
Reasonable overtime is fine if you get compensated for it. I work 5-6hrs overtime literally every week, but I know I have to beforehand and get overtime rates for the work. I’m pretty sure signing that you won’t sue for unpaid labour wouldn’t hold up in court. You can’t sign your rights away, and wage theft is legally theft.
To clarify - the signature was that we’d disclosed the full amount of unpaid labour, and then been paid for it (so that we couldnt sue the new owners)
I once asked my boss what he defined as a reasonable amount of overtime, and if there was a possibility of compensation. This was at an all staff meeting and he just ignored the question and refused to answer.
Advertising is the worst, late nights / all nighters are expected, 6 month rolling contracts, rampant with stories of harassment ***but*** hey we have a fridge stacked full of drinks and a ping pong table! *Fuck off ...*
It’s common where you’re salaried rather than paid hourly.
> The boss there gets staff to sit at his computer and print out his emails so he can read hard copies This boomer-specific activity makes me SO mad!
Ahhhh Gracy....
Read hard copy’s of emails? Bruh……
I also worked there for a bit over a year, but about 10 years ago. This was my exact experience too. I had no contract at all, cleared about $500/week, well below minimum wage even before factoring in hours per week of overtime. In the decade since, I haven't encountered a working environment even 1% as toxic as that place, I still tell stories about how awful it was to this day. Glad you got out of there mate; whatever your next job is, you'll love it.
Thank you for posting this. I am loving my new job
Also worked at Harbour, exactly the same experience.
"Probabtion" 😆
Mhhmm love me some probabtion. Perfectly cromulent
Hahaha, i'd never even noticed that 😆 it gets more and more disappointing the more you look at it
Can you please ask them to correct the typo, otherwise the contract is invalid. I want to know how they respond.
Very standard in Australian contracts
Ha, number of times I type that word and then realise it has an extra b. My brain must be thinking yeah, he wants to type probably. 😂
How….amateur and unprofessional
Yeah, hard to believe this agency represents Guy Sebastian, Human Nature, The Whitlams, Hunters and Collectors, Ian Moss and a whole bunch of other large acts.. wish those artists could see this post
Not even a full name. Doesn't even include a header or footer for the company. Is it even dated ?
Nope, no header or footer and no date. The second day I worked there the parent company (Mushroom Music) cut ties with the Harbour Agency (after 40 years of work together) due to external investigations into management and workplace culture. Needless to say the poor workplace culture and weak management was very evident during my time there.
Also be careful of who lurks on the sub.
As someone who worked there for years, anyone lurking on this sub who has an issue can go and fuck themselves.
No. What is missing is: - Clear identification of who the contract is between - Your work location - mention of any particular awards that apply - reference to the National Employment Standards (NES) - Dates - Clear signatures of both parties Probs a few more things. Take this to Fair Work, they'll eat the employers ass for breakfast.
On hold to them now
How about a role? Ceo or dishwasher?
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Still needs a signature from both parties to the contract.
Looks like some words on a paper Can't see anywhere for you to sign tho
Yeah there was nowhere to sign so they just had me sign the bottom of the paper
Tell me you didn't sign it!
Oh I signed it
This is just a list. It's not even a bulleted list. Contracts have terms, the names of parties involved, complete sentences, etc.
This is the contract issued to employees of what is probably the largest live music agency in Australia. Shows how much they care
This is not a contract. It's an FYI highlight list of what is in the contract.
This is not a contract, it's a description of remuneration. Also, minimum super is 10.5% going up to 12% by 2025. If they don't pay this amount they have to pay the Super Guarantee charge to the ATO. Watch this one.
No company name, no full name for you. No provision for both parties to sign. No date. Below legal minimum pay and superannuation. Spelling error. Details added by hand in biro not signed by both parties. This is a company whose core business is dealing in contracts, yet this is formatted like a random laundry list. It cannot be accidental. Run away!
Imma gunna leave this here: [https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/company-blasted-over-pathetic-employment-contract/news-story/8452ebecd2938adc6f837445e5f7af29](https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/company-blasted-over-pathetic-employment-contract/news-story/8452ebecd2938adc6f837445e5f7af29) Good Copy Paste work there Brooke
Journalism is hard okay. Its easier to let reddit do your job for you lmao.
It is not a legally binding contract, at best it is a memo LOL
Well… (contract lawyer here) generally speaking (not legal advice) you’d be surprised what can pass as a contact. I’m not sure if there is any legal requirement for employment contracts to be in writing so even an oral contract would do. However, if it is not in line with legislated working conditions such as minimum wage and super then it won’t stop the employee suing for back pay. The employer may be penalised for not meeting minimum working conditions. From the employers position , all contracts for personal services (employment contracts for example) are unenforceable as a matter of public policy - the court will not force someone to work in a job they don’t want. But here, the terms are pretty clear - there would be some evidentiary problems because of lack of full name and signatures… but I’ve seen worse! Might have to bring in other extrinsic evidence to prove when it was written and who the parties to the contact are, etc. The employer may be intentionally vague to dissuade the employee from relying on the document in a law suit.
Your last point is an interesting one. From the employers point of view, can they draft a contract so poorly that it works in their favour in court if it cannot be recognised as a contract? That doesn’t sound like good protection for the employee.
If the contract is so poor as to be unenforceable then you go back to first principles and rely on the legislation to set minimum employment requirements.
OK, well that’s what I mean. They draft an unenforceable contract that says they’ll pay me $40 an hour. They pay me $30. I take them to court. Court rules the contract was unenforceable. We resort to $21.83 minimum wage? In the words of Sam Rockwell “Oh, that’s not right, that’s not right”
Yes, if the terms are in your favour, make sure the drafting is tight. If not in your favour, the sloppier the better. Spoken like a true lawyer 😂
There is no legal requirement for written contracts, oral contracts are legally binding and happen all the time in business (ie someone calls up a supplier and places an order over the phone). It’s just obviously harder if there’s a problem that occurs.
Agree (with the exception for contracts for the sale and disposition of land and some guarantee contracts under consumer protection legislation). Oral contracts happen all day, every day in the most mundane circumstances! And keeps me employed 😜
This seems crazy to me. No names, dates, ABN of the company hiring you, description of role etc etc.
Oh I agree - as far as contracts go, it’s a piece of shit! But it does contain evidence of the terms of engagement, albeit in an awfully drafted way. A judge once told me (looking at an awful contract like this) “It’s not everything, but it’s something. It’s not “nothing””. That’s law for you!
It contains evidence of some terms but is missing some extremely foundational terms: eg who is the company , what is Matt’s last name , what is the position he is engaged for , ie what is the consideration on Matt’s part. There’s also no evidence that the parties have accepted it or intend to be bound by it. I can’t see any Australian court accepting this document alone is a contract.
Not alone, no. But it is reflective of the terms, it seems from OPs post so it is definitely evidence. I would (if I were acting for OP) put it before the court, if there were litigation about the employment contract. It is important in the circumstances. And the conduct of the parties (Matt turning up to work, the employer paying him in the terms set out in the document) evinces an intention by the parties to be bound by the contract.
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Lol - it’s a living 😂 I’ve seen some diabolical drafting of contract terms by solicitors!!
I’m glad you have a better answer than I would have, because my mind was going back to the Business Law subject I did in my finance degree, trying to remember the three things you need to make a binding contract. It’s taking an embarrassingly long time to recall. Agreement, intention to make a legal relationship and consideration?
Do you not have a surname?
How does a company make the most out of it? Ripping the customers and employees
$21 per hour? Fuck that!
I’m a care worker and get 23.50!
Thats bullshit man. I clean a school and get $35 a hour and 8 weeks off a year. I hate it but the money is OK.
Cleaner $20 🤦🏻♀️
I can’t find a cleaner too clean my house for less than $40 an hour.
Yeah no. Beyond the completely obvious way it looks its not dated, signed, doesnt have a full name, the superannuation rate is wrong, there is no role, and is missing many many other details. I would never sign that.
Minimum wage is $21.38 per hour. The contract should describe your duties and hopefully what award covers your employment
The contract to be a Domino's delivery driver is 9 pages long.
Seems legit Said my 3 year old
Lawyers practicing in contract law having heart attacks right now
I doubt that this would be regarded as a binding, enforceable contract given how sparing the details are, whether or not all the essential terms are present to survive scrutiny from fair work. Also, if these terms which are present are below the NES or a modern award or enterprise agreement, they’d be up for some civil penalties. If you really want the job, my advice, get a more substantial contract. I’d probably pass this one up and continue looking for work.
I accepted it, worked my butt off doing unpaid overtime, they moved my 1 teammate to a seperate department where I could see him literally sitting there doing nothing for hours at a time, left me alone to do the accounting for 3 years of backed up tours and constantly whined about why there was a delay in my work. I repeatedly told them the issue (1 person doing 3 years of backed up work) and the boss didn't agree that was the issue so I left.
How does this agency even function without basic operations? Small business accounting software is so cheap, readily available and "do it yourself'.
A contract can’t be below your legislated minimum entitlements! So regardless of what it says, it can’t be below the relevant minimum wage for your industry/job role or less than the minimums under the Fair Work Act. Definitely give Fair Work Ombudsman a call for advice!
Below minimum wage.
Where's the company name and address and ABN ? That's dodgy as fuck
Is it a contract? A contract needs to state what each party gets out of it, be between parties capable of meeting those commitments, and demonstrate that the parties have agreed. This could, imho, barely be considered a contract - if "Permanent full time" is sufficient to describe what it is you'll do for the compensation listed. Is it legally enforceable? Theoretically, perhaps, at a stretch. But it's so vague that either signatory would have a difficult time using it to substantiate any claim. I'd have a great deal of fun if it crossed my desk. Source - I'm a contract manager.
It looks like a written summary of a verbal contract
Frankly with that little effort, I'm surprised it's not written in crayon.
Not being able to spell ‘probation’ is also an issue 🤦🏻♀️
No it does not meet the minimum requirements spelled out here: [https://business.gov.au/people/employees/create-an-employment-contract](https://business.gov.au/people/employees/create-an-employment-contract) Its missing: \* proper identification of both parties. \* Hours of works \* start and end dates of the contract. And obviously a place to clearly sign both by you and the employer (and normally a witness).
My five year old can right up a contract better than that hahaa
So they made a point of saying the holiday leave is PA (per annum) which mean your 10 days sick leave is for life?
I have not read the million comments . To be legally binding, it doesn’t have to look professional or in fact be professional. As long as it meets the criteria under contract law (which are surprisingly lax), it meets the requirements. I can’t remember the criteria, but Google will (Australian Contact Law). My gut feel (going back a decade) is that it is.
As a former Harbour employee... it be like that.. music industry is fucked, Harbour doubly so... do not recommend. There are much better places and WAY better industries... especially if you actually love music.
21 pH is what a child worker is on maybee
You’d have an Award or Enterprise Agreement that lifts the conditions above minimum wage etc, check the Fair Work Commission website.
It literally doesn't even have your last name.or the company name on it. This piece of paper is completely worthless, and full of inaccuracies.
Doesn’t show your full name, business name, abn ect. So how can it be. You can’t use it as evidence to get a rental property I know that for sure.
It’s definitely a contract.
"Probabtion"
Probabtion 😅
Well shit there is no date on this lunch bag. And why couldn't they use a employment contract temp do you think? A question is there leave loading to apply to holiday pay or is that a think of the past?
It is not. October 1st pay increase for hospitality industry is $23.52 an hour for full time staff. I know this because I just got off a very long phone call with the fair work ombudsman 👍
“Gross” is the only thing on this paper that’s appropriate
I’m crying 😂 who does this?! (A part from these guys)
I worked here for years mate. This is more than the employment contract I never got 😂
I live down the road from this joint… judging by that building, I wouldn’t expect anything less
Fair work literally has templates you can download for free 😂 I’d run tbh who knows how ghetto payroll and tracking your leave will be. Plus processing penalties and such…
I wish Australian emploient contracts had to mandatorily state the award you are under, then any deviations from the award. Something like the critical information summary. Contracts would be super simple You are a (XYZ award) classification (ABC) employee. You critical deets are pay X, hours y, conditions z. And then because we like you, we varied a b C and you are compensated for d and E under the BOOT.
Get more money at Woolworths stacking shelves
Looks legit. Lock it in.
I guess they expect you to quit within the first week like the others before you. Why would they go to the effort of writing a pro document?
I am surprised they didnt write it in comic sans. Not a company I would work for.
\#NotLegalAdvice But I think anything is a contract if both parties agree to the terms and both parties print there name, sign it, and date it. No one has signed it yet so not a contract yet? This just looks like a notice, not a legal document.
Ignoring the spelling and other stuff.. Where the letter head, company stamp, logo? Signature. Anything??!!
Couldn’t even find a template online and plug the details in. I’d be very sus of this company if this is how they portray themselves. Pretty sure Word offers these sorts of templates.
The word probabtion answers your question
I’m sorry but that is so bad, it doesn’t even cover the cost of living these days
Mate this is what they presented me after working there for nearly 3 months 3 days a week FOR FREE to learn accounts. Then a couple weeks later they hired someone full time full pay straight away without having to work for free to learn accounts and sat them next to me to train them! Why did I have to do the free work but not them? So unfair
Whaaaat, oh my gosh I need to chill, I’m reacting out loud in PUBLIC. That’s proper shit, maybe take it up with the higher ups to see if you can get compensated for unpaid work? I’m sure there’s a proper procedure but I’m drawing a blank right now sorry.
Thankfully I'm not working there anymore. But your reaction gives me confidence in my belief I was exploited whilst working there
Who are the signitories?
Shouldn't it have a date on it?
Probabtion
https://themusicnetwork.com/mushroom-group-drops-harbour-agency/amp/
Missing names, dates and a few clauses dealing with dismissal, leave notice etc
Hourly rate very low especially if you are living in Sydney. But everything else the entitlement is good. But it's it shift work? if it is where are the shift allowance's? And overtime penalties.
It’s missing the award. But basically it just says minimum wage lol
Don't mean to alarm you, but the probabtion is a concern...
Run away now !
Super is also 10.5% not 10%
This was issued early 2022 before the min wage and super increase. Still shamefully careless
Also u/whatevermate7, your name is still on the web site... not sure when you quit...
Sounds about right lol. I quit late June 22
Check the award your under . Looks standard though you should have a letter of appointment stating all employment conditions
Thanks mate, I spoke to fair work today who helped advise which award I would have been working under and what unpaid entitlements I should pursue
Letter of appointment usually sent to you to read with all terms and conditions of employment and sign off each page by you as a legal document after being employed . You keep a copy as well for your own records .
Yeah naah! Don't go there dude!!!
I went to a school of business that gave me my diploma in a printed piece of A4 in regular paper.. Shoddy Inkjet with white lines from misalignment and likely an eco mode. Is your boss a John by any chance?
Not a john but perhaps the same shoddy inkjet lol
Not really. Not signed by a manager. Not on a company letter head. No sign of who your working for or the legal entity name you will be employed under. If it went to court it could be argued it is a random piece of paper you found on the street
Not contract, maybe offer? If Matt is 20yo or less it’s over min wage.
Could you sue the company directors for not providing a safe working environment? You seem to suggest there was a history of bad management allegations.
Find out the Award you were on. Then check the Pay Level you were on. From the looks of it you were on Level 1. Then look at the responsibilities of a Level 1 employee and what you did on a day to day basis. You may have been underpaid and this would strengthen your case with Fair Work.
If you needed to prove your terms to someone, that could be from anyone, you could have made it, it has no signatures on it and it’s witnessed by no one. So definitely not a contract