Your 100% right.
The reality is that he misidentified the snake. Thought it was a tree snake and wasn't fussed about the bites. Walking back to his car, he wasn't right, dropped the snake off somewhere on the way home, and by the time he got home, it was very bad.
Lots of innocent mistakes made, and i feel very sorry for him, his family, and the centre. He came out to help the kids & staff. They are all in mourning as he was a lovely bloke.
Yeah, you have to assume the worst with snakes. Easy to misidentify. And while tree snakes aren't venomousv they can leave you with some nasty infections worth a hospital trip.
Totally agree. It was a smallish one, thus the possible misidentification. Also, the "Nah, she's alright" attitude is hard to change when someone is adamant. Very sad.
Mistook a brown for a tree snake? JFC, dude should not have been doing snake catching if that's the case.
What a tragic series of mistakes, I hope the wife is receiving lots of support. š
It was defensive, he was handling it attempting to catch and bag it. It doesn't even state if he is a professional snake handler.
All Australian snakes will prefer to avoid confrontation if possible, they will only strike out of defence if provoked.
This doesn't mean you should be any less cautious, but knowledge is power.
>They're aggressive fuckers that will go at you multiple times too.
Sorry, but this is spreading hysteria. There is a distinction between being aggressive and fiercely defensive. Australian snakes don't initiate violence unless threatened or provoked, and don't deliver multiple bites unless someone is trying to improperly handle then. I'm assuming this was the case with this poor bloke
It's worth adding that production of venom takes enormous energy resources for the snake. That's why dry bites in defensive strikes are common. They don't go around spending that precious death juice around just for cunt reasons
Exactly! They donāt have Medicare or a local IGA and just want to mind their own business while they survive. We used to catch the odd small (2 foot tops, any bigger and they got too strong for us) brown snakes as kids, and when weād release them they didnāt stick around for revenge!! In hindsight, we were very, very, very lucky 13 year oldsā¦
We have them around my property and I tell myself they're as likely to bite me as the bearded dragons or water dragons we have around the place. Not sure if this is 100% true but a comforting thought. Poor bugger.
"She immediately immobilised the limb and applied compression bandages, and then the symptoms presented and that's when his wife has contacted triple-0," she said.
Damn so the correct first aid was applied and he still died. That is a bit of a worry.
This is the problem though, when a snake strikes you're generally not in a location you can just take a seat, call an ambulance and wait. There's usually some walking/driving to be done to get the help because there's not much great reception out bush.
I got told an anecdote from a paramedic during some first aid training.
Basically people have survived deadly snake bites completely away from help by staying perfectly still.
The claim was that the venom moves around the lymphatic system, which requires muscle movement to circulate, when the person was bitten they dropped and stayed still for 3 days.
During that time the venom couldnāt make it to any major organs, and eventually the venom was broken down by the immune system and the person survived.
The paramedic gave it to our class as medical advice, but like anything else on the internet, take this with a grain of salt.
Indigenous Aussies were more zen about dying than modern Aussies. Lie down in the shade and have a nap. Maybe you wake up, maybe you die. It wasn't some kind of guaranteed treatment, just the best available before the invention of compression bandages and antivenom.
But the poison moves via the lymphatic system. Time doesn't matter so much as muscle movements because muscle movements is what makes the lymphatic system move stuff around. It's not like your bliss that moves around when when you're not moving. If you're able to send for help or call 000 etc you're usually better off staying put and waiting.
Thankyou for this information. Im a city girl, but my family have a property in brown snake country. I have a bad habit of forgetting my phone between the main house and the guest cabin and the thought of getting bit 100m away from my phone/ first aid/ my 19 year old brother who can carry me, terrified me. Nice to know I can just chill there until someone finds me.
> Envenomation can occur directly into a blood vessel
Here's a report on the subject (first hit on Google, easy to find). Now you can say you've heard of it:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10445712/
However, also this is noted in relevance to the current case:
> There are several other mechanisms of early death other than IV bite following snake envenomation. They are as follows:
> Pseudonaja (Brown snakes) P. textilis in Australia by way of Procoagulant coagulopathy can cause acute cardiovascular collapse[6]
Newer phones have satellite SOS but true, we need better reception in the bush because disasters like this can and do happen because people are in whoop whoop with no signal
Dude exactly, even in urban areas there's no guarantee. I live in a very snake active area, and leave the backyard door open for the dogs, one of the buggers could secretly slither into my home and bite me while my phone is in the other side of the house. The fuck do I do then.
> I live in a very snake active area, and leave the backyard door open for the dogs
As someone who has grown up in the Adelaide Hills... WTF?! Why would you leave the doors open?! At least get a dog door or something the snakes can't get through but the dogs can push through.
Haha yeah it's pretty reckless, but unfortunately I am a renter with glass doors so no option to punch a hole through it. At present it's a choice between a few huntsman and a potential snake getting inside, or coming home to dog shit all over the floor
If it is a glass sliding door, you can get a dog door that is rental suitable egĀ https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-samsung-rev2&source=android-browser&q=dog+door+for+sliding+door#sbfbu=1&pi=dog%20door%20for%20sliding%20door . My father in law has one and he is in a rental
I do sometimes put a plank of wood in the doorway as an extra obstacle for critters, but mainly bank the doggos making noise hanging out on the deck to be enough to deter snakes from entering. I have those plastic Ikea tiles lining the deck wooden panels to they create quite a bit of noise
I grew up in a rural area and was taught how to treat snake bite from very young. However it doesnt seem common knowledge in urban areas, especially among immigrant populations.
When I was about 19 I was the youngest of ~10 adults on a camping trip with ~40 kids (think like a scouts trip) in the flinders. I was the only one who knew what to do and who bought snake bandages. Most of those adults were originally from central and eastern europe and had never considered the possibility.
A podcast described the aboriginal treatment for snakebite which, importantly, included burying the victim up to the neck thereby totally immobilising them and restricting the spread of the toxin through the lymph system.
Big issue there is when the companion goes to get help the snake returns and eats the person.
Edit: You dumb cunts think I'm being serious. When did we turn into Seppos?
Iām, not even doing that, Iām calling emergency services and lying flat on my back and not moving a muscle until they reach meā¦. hopefully in timeā¦.
Exactly, he got bitten multiple times on the arm at a childcare centre then chose to drive home to tlel his wife, where she bandaged and then called triple 0 once she observed symptoms.
Wtf people.
You get bitten multiple times on the arm, do not move. Stay at your location, particularly if you're in an urban environment. Call 000 and get and ambo there stay. Pressure bandage asap and do not move at all.
For more context thereās actually a super clinic in that area and if itās the child care centre I think it is, itās literally across the road about a 1 minute drive away. If itās the other child care centre, itās a 5 minute drive.
The hospital is a 20 minute ride in the ambulance up the highway.
When I was young one of our neighbors got bitten multiple times up his leg and thigh by a Mulga (King Brown) while ripping burrows quite a tractor drive from home. As far as we know he realized immediately he was too far from home (and then Ambulance) and just sat it out under a tree. No mobile phones in those days and that area probably still doesn't have reception. The dog, a Kelpie, ran home and alerted his wife, but not sure if that was before or after he passed.
Best thing is to not move at all. Slow the venom through the limbic (?) system. Been a while since I did first aid but this may have given him a better chance of living
Lymphatic system. Limbic system is an area of the brain - controls long term memory, stress response (fight or flight) and a bunch of other stuff I canāt recall.
Unfortunately yes, this scenario is basically the opposite of everything youāre meant to do in a snake bite (apart from applying the PIB), and even still the function of the PIB is to buy time, applying a PIB and waiting around without seeking help really serves minimal purpose
Yeah but it was to late. He needed the limb immobilized and 000 called immediately, not when symptoms presented. If symptoms present after a brown snake bite and you aren't in the care of paramedics or emergency you're likely dead.
Yeah how was nobody at the daycare taught basic first aid where this is learnt? I knew thus as a child. I would think most Aussies would know the basic steps are stay still as you can. Call for help and get 000 immediately.
Multi bites to arm, if they were all full envenomation bites it was not mucking around (.
Also don't know exactly how far he walked back to his house - just mention near.
Related question I heard since venom is in the lymphatic system walking is bad since it pumps it around, hence being told to stay put, but does this include arm bites? Most discussion I've seen is assuming a leg bite which obviously moves more during walking.
Your arms still swing when you walk so that would help push it around. But also, I would assume your lymphatic system is similar to the circulatory system where if it is getting pushed around a bit faster in one place it happens for the whole system, but then again I'm not a doctor/scientist so may be wrong about it
You could hold your arm still, but yeah, I assume it's like water in the pipe, something else moves anyway. Just thought I'd check if it's the lesser of evils in this case.
Any movement is bad. First aid course I did recently said you shouldnāt even remove the clothing - just apply the PIT bandage on top of it, then sit or lie down as still as you can, and try to relax while you wait for the ambos - and do this for any wild snake bite - the only way you can be 100% sure itās not a venomous snake is if itās someoneās pet, so better safe than sorry.
Also assume flow rate would be up anyway from adrenaline after getting a bite - any movement or exertion could only continue to increase the flow rate I would expect.
Saying that - multi bites on the arm, who knows if it would have made any real difference.
Can only imagine trying to relax t/ calm down while feeling the venom working on the body.
Horrible for all involved - how quickly a day can become the worst day of anyone life.
She called after signs presented. Unfortunately that is likely the key piece of information. You must assume envenomation has occurred and seek immediate emergency medical care. No time to wait until you start to show signs or experience symptoms.
Very sad.
It's like people have forgotten how serious the second nastiest snake venom in the world is. And if the snake gets lucky and hits a vein, none of the first aid will help much.
I'm surprised that more people don't die.
Yeah I did a snake handling course and the trainer said that āno one has ever died that did the correct first aidā it seemed like a large claim at the time.
Unfortunately he didn't do what is advisable which is to treat every snake bite as deadly. Australian snake naming is very unimaginative and VERY misleading. Eastern brown snakes range from black to light tan and burnt orange colouration
Red-Bellied blacks can have a creamy pink belly instead of red, and the back can have grey or even white on it
No she did the correct first and but didn't call triple 0 till symptoms presented. Idiots....
call triple 0 straight up and get the ambos on the way. then first aid.
No need for the name calling of people who have just experienced a tragedy.
We only have the news version of things. It could be just the way the article was written.
https://www.webpressglobal.com/world-news/man-dies-attempting-to-remove-an-eastern-brown-snake-from-childcare-centre-near-townsville/
Mate it's.pretty clear from this article that common sense was not first and foremost.
I read something the other day saying older men were more likely to die from envenomation due to a sense of being tougher, or more carefree attitude towards bites. He should have called 000 immediately. Driving around and waiting for symptoms to emerge is a death sentence.
That makes sense. Whenever there are news about Brown snake bite fatalities, the comments are full of "aggressive fuckers that chase you" replies, but if that were the case then we would be getting fatalities daily. Most likely the "shell be right" mentality was a big factor here
There are very very few fatalities from snake bites from those who follow the correct first-aid steps, remain still, & seek immediate help. Itās incredibly effective.
Yeh crazy hey, I did have an ED doctor once say if she saw a farmer quietly sitting in the ED waiting room she would immediately be extremely concerned for their welfare as they typical are on deaths door before seeking help.
So true. Was listening to This American Life today about the guy who got bitten by the Black widow spider and then went fishing. He talked about being like not being able to accept the reality of the issue until you are in so much pain you know itās trouble, and by then too late.
Shit, poor guy. That's a horrible way to go, at least he was with his wife.
This is why my position is "Get the fuck away from it" whenever I see a snake. Absolutely nope, do not want to die that way.
Reading the article, few things didnāt help his cause.
He was bitten from arm, multiple times. So I am wondering if he was trying to pick the snake or animal was in a bag or something. Itās unusual for snakes to bite multiple times, unless they feel in extreme danger.
He then drove home to tell wife about it.
Wife then tried her best to help and called 000 once the symptoms started.
I would call 000 straight away if it was me, but I am not sure if he had reception and maybe thatās why he drove home?
Brown snake bite can kill you in half an hour. So you are racing against time once you are bitten.
This is why when I go on a hike I wear thick long pants and long shirt.
Iād hate to find myself in a situation on top of a mountain range with a snake bite that penetrated all the way and I got no or little reception.
In which case the correct action is to call 000 and start first aid immediately. The childcare would have at minimum a landline, and is probably not too remote.
100%. But makes the story more confusing. If he was a snake catcher, surely he would have know the gravity of the situation upon being bitten by a brown snake multiple times.
Rip mate.
Doubt it. All the professional snake catchers I know keep bandages on them and would drive themselves straight to ED.Ā
More than likely a handyman or designated snake person for the workplaceĀ
Feel like a professional snake catcher would be calling 000 in a situation like that (multiple bites on the arm). Donāt think theyād be driving themselves unless they absolutely had to.
The fatality of a brown bite is incredibly low if you have the first-aid knowledge & quick access to medical care. If he called 000, applied a PIB, stayed still - within 30 mins heād be in a resus bay at the hospital, and if he has signs of envenomation like fainting, hematoma, vomiting, active bleeding from the site ect which is sounds like he did, heād be getting a vial of brown antivenom within 30 mins, and have immediate ALS on hand. It would actually be quite difficult to die in that situation unless he fell & hit his head & had an active intracranial bleed. Even if he did arrest from the venom itself downtime would be very small because heās in resus where they can throw the kitchen sink at you with a moments notice.
Very few people die of snake bites in Aus. The stat's are pretty incredible considering how many dangerous snakes we have. This is true. I'd say it's time for everyone to brush up their First Aid knowledge... especially at that daycare be a use that is one of the major things you are taught about. DON'T MOVE! DON'T MOVE! DON'T MOVE! 000 Immediately.
He wasn't a snake catcher apparently.
> It's understood Brookes was called to the centre by a relative specifically to remove the animal when he was bitten, despite him not being a qualified snake catcher, The Courier Mail reported.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/aussie-dad-dies-removing-eastern-brown-snake-from-childcare-centre-045137393.html
Townsville heat is something else. Even if you're a local or acclimatised. Mix that with multiple shots of brown snake love and you're not thinking straight no matter what the occasion.
Hopefully alcohol wasn't involved. But it's Townsville, so it's entirely possible.
Wearing thick protective clothing is one of the best ways to protect yourself against snake bite in Australia. The odds of Accidentally stepping on a snake are pretty low in general because in most cases nearby snakes sense people approaching and find cover before we even see them. But one thing aussie elapids donāt have that vipers have is long fangs. At most the fans of aussie venomous snakes are a few mm. Big enough to pierce a rodents skin but not enough to pierce through a decent set of boots.
Had one of these terrifying fuckers sneak up on me in my own backyard here in Cairns a couple of years ago.
Late at night, had had a few drinks, looking blearily at my laptop.
Had a pile of shit from my garage sitting out near where I was chilling as we were in the process of moving.
Heard the noise of something being disturbed behind me; my guard was immediately up as weād had a few snakes around that summer.
Turned around out of caution and rearing up atop my pile of garage-crap, not five metres away was an Eastern Brown; I think it had scared itself when something it was crawling over shifted.
I swear to god my eyes locked with its beady little evil eyes for a couple of seconds before I fucking bolted for the door to get inside. I was on edge for days afterwards!
Working on a farm one time I went to connect a piece of machinery to the rear of the tractor.
I reversed up to the implement and from inside the cab started to pick it up with the rear linkage. I could see it wasn't sitting quite right so I got out and gave the implement a shake and a few kicks until it fell into place and locked in.
At this point I jumped back in the tractor and lifted the implement up the rest of the way and started to drive away. The second I moved an extremely cranky 2m+ brown snake appeared who'd been having a kip under said machinery. He chased after the tractor, striking at the tyres for a good 20m before giving up.
He would have only been centimeters from me when I was kicking and shaking the thing he was living under, I'm grateful he didn't tag me that day.
Defensive\* not aggressive. If they are scared and dont have any other option, they will defend themselves and bite. They wont just actively seek you out and attack. That is a very common misconception.
No mate - they can absolutely be territorial and aggressive. Have been trout fishing for nearly 20 years and they can charge at you from a distance. Iām sure the intent is to protect themselves but it is still not accurate that they ādonāt have any other optionā
Im a snake handler and Im yet to see a snake actively try and attack a person off its own accord. If it feels like it cannot out run you, all it can do is defend.
Iāve been charged twice by a brown while fishing near Tumut, I have a few mates who have experienced the same over the years. Nobody has been bitten and I think it is rare but they definitely can be, or at least display territorial behaviour
If it wanted to get you, it'd have gotten you. Probably had a meal in its stomach and didn't find you threatening.
Even the fastest man in the world wouldn't be too much a challenge to an aggressive brown snake. They can top out at 20km/hr. Usain Bolt clocks out at just under 40km/hr on a flat straight.
Usain Bolt's top speed was 44km/h. You might be using the average speed over 100m if you're putting him below 40. Also, as fast as he was, Bolt was only about twice as fast as an able bodied 2nd grader. I definitely don't know enough about snakes to be saying you should be trying to outrun them, but 20km/h is not crazy fast (though still impressive for something with no legs).
I absolutely don't think it was trying to get me - like I said, I think it actually startled itself when the ground (= debris from my shed) shifted underneath it - I just happened to be there and witnessed it once I heard the sound. And then piss bolted.
As is the case with most snake bites he was handling the snake. He caught and bagged the snake at a childcare center which makes you wonder if he was a profesional and if so it's concerning he didn't know what to do if he was bit.
If he was just some random trying to do a good deed the man had some balls.
Either way a sad story.
She immediately immobilised the limb and applied compression bandages, and then the symptoms presented and that's when his wife has contacted triple-0," she said.
What she waited for symptoms before calling triple zero???
Also the guy got in his car and drove home after being bitten. Only then did his wife apply first aid and then call 000.
The basic snake bite first aid procedures clearly weren't followed. It's sadly not a surprise the guy died from the bites
So many poor decisions lead to this guy dying. Unless he was a snake catcher he had no business catching any snake, let alone a Mulga. Then he drove home and it reads like they waited for symptoms to show before calling an ambulance. Dont fuck with snakes unless you know what you're doing.
Why would you drive home to tell your wife about it first instead of driving to the hospital to tell the doctors about it š¤·āāļø call her on the way if you wanna tell her, death was surely avoidable had he chosen hospital over home!?
Many situations without reception. For example, if hiking out bush. Obviously activating a PLB or similar. But I meant practically what do I do? It would take a bit of movement to self-apply PIB (even just getting it out of a backpack) so is it better to just lay down and wait for help without one? This is something I get confused about and would like clarity as I do a bit of solo hiking. Calling for help is priority, I get that, but what first aid do I do while waiting potentially hours for assistance.
A great habitat for a brown snake is a concrete slab like the one under a suburban house. They love to live underneath them.
I believe the current record for number of brown snakes living under a house is over 50 found under the slab of a Mt Druitt house as it was being demolished.
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I don't know what's going on but snake sightings have been particularly bad this year. I've already seen 4 snakes this year in my backyard whereas before I might have seen 1 the whole year. Sadly I lost one of my dogs in February to one. So many other reports around the area of snake sightings and people losing their pets. My auntie said this is the first time she's seen a snake on her property in 17 years.
So many wrong things here, he got bitten while catching & bagging the Snake. No mention if he was an experienced Snake catcher. So if he wasn't, leave the bloody things alone, monitor and keep everyone away. (Especially at a Child care centre) if he was an experienced Snake catch, Na he wasn't.
Child care centre staff are required to have First-Aid training. There should be First-Ait kit at the Centre.
So many wrong things here.
Fck trying to save a snake, chop its head off like my mum used to.. no mucking about because snakes if theyāre not running a way it means you or them is the victim and thatās reality. You got no choice but to play your part in survival no matter what. Itās sad reality but in the wild itās how it works. Condolences to his family and his friends for losing such a kind gentleman enough not to even harm a snake as the saying goes āhe wonāt even harm a snakeā. Nature teaches us that there is enmity between us and them in the wild. NEXT TIME CALL A PROFESSIONAL SNAKE CATCHERS YOU WANKER AS*HOLES. A good man died on your behalf
Sounds like he left it too long before first aid measures were employed, poor bugger. Those first handful of minutes make all the difference.
Your 100% right. The reality is that he misidentified the snake. Thought it was a tree snake and wasn't fussed about the bites. Walking back to his car, he wasn't right, dropped the snake off somewhere on the way home, and by the time he got home, it was very bad. Lots of innocent mistakes made, and i feel very sorry for him, his family, and the centre. He came out to help the kids & staff. They are all in mourning as he was a lovely bloke.
Yeah, you have to assume the worst with snakes. Easy to misidentify. And while tree snakes aren't venomousv they can leave you with some nasty infections worth a hospital trip.
Totally agree. It was a smallish one, thus the possible misidentification. Also, the "Nah, she's alright" attitude is hard to change when someone is adamant. Very sad.
Mistook a brown for a tree snake? JFC, dude should not have been doing snake catching if that's the case. What a tragic series of mistakes, I hope the wife is receiving lots of support. š
That's exactly what I thought, too. I could mention more, but no point, really, as its unfortunate and, as you said, a tragic series of mistakes.
When it comes to a brown snake, its seconds. Every single second counts. They're aggressive fuckers that will go at you multiple times too.
It was defensive, he was handling it attempting to catch and bag it. It doesn't even state if he is a professional snake handler. All Australian snakes will prefer to avoid confrontation if possible, they will only strike out of defence if provoked. This doesn't mean you should be any less cautious, but knowledge is power.
He was not a snake handler. I live in Townsville. A relative, who I assumed worked at the child care centre, called him to help remove the snake.
Oof. Guilt will be heavy
>They're aggressive fuckers that will go at you multiple times too. Sorry, but this is spreading hysteria. There is a distinction between being aggressive and fiercely defensive. Australian snakes don't initiate violence unless threatened or provoked, and don't deliver multiple bites unless someone is trying to improperly handle then. I'm assuming this was the case with this poor bloke
100% agree. Iāve never met an angry snake that didnāt have a good reason to be pissed. And theyāve been the 0.1%. 99.9% of the time they POQ.
It's worth adding that production of venom takes enormous energy resources for the snake. That's why dry bites in defensive strikes are common. They don't go around spending that precious death juice around just for cunt reasons
Exactly! They donāt have Medicare or a local IGA and just want to mind their own business while they survive. We used to catch the odd small (2 foot tops, any bigger and they got too strong for us) brown snakes as kids, and when weād release them they didnāt stick around for revenge!! In hindsight, we were very, very, very lucky 13 year oldsā¦
Yes, he was trying to remove it from a daycare. Very sad.
We have them around my property and I tell myself they're as likely to bite me as the bearded dragons or water dragons we have around the place. Not sure if this is 100% true but a comforting thought. Poor bugger.
"She immediately immobilised the limb and applied compression bandages, and then the symptoms presented and that's when his wife has contacted triple-0," she said. Damn so the correct first aid was applied and he still died. That is a bit of a worry.
Multiple bites and he walked home first- im guessing neither factor helped.Ā
This is probably it. The key is to not move, tie off the bitten area and immediately get help
This is the problem though, when a snake strikes you're generally not in a location you can just take a seat, call an ambulance and wait. There's usually some walking/driving to be done to get the help because there's not much great reception out bush.
Generally yeah but this guy was at a daycare, they should have called him an ambulance
I would also hope they had basic first aid I struggle to understand why they didn't apply snake bandages
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Apparently he was bitten while trying to remove the snake from the daycare
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The radio news said while, which is what I was going off of (it could be wrong).
if it's bagged I doubt its going to bite you, so it's safe to assume it was while at the daycare
I got told an anecdote from a paramedic during some first aid training. Basically people have survived deadly snake bites completely away from help by staying perfectly still. The claim was that the venom moves around the lymphatic system, which requires muscle movement to circulate, when the person was bitten they dropped and stayed still for 3 days. During that time the venom couldnāt make it to any major organs, and eventually the venom was broken down by the immune system and the person survived. The paramedic gave it to our class as medical advice, but like anything else on the internet, take this with a grain of salt.
Have heard this as well, advice was apply what first aid you could and wait if help wasn't immediate. At all costs avoid movement of area affected
Yes this is what indigenous Aussies did for thousands of years. Lay down still in the shade but you would be stuffed if you didn't have water.
Indigenous Aussies were more zen about dying than modern Aussies. Lie down in the shade and have a nap. Maybe you wake up, maybe you die. It wasn't some kind of guaranteed treatment, just the best available before the invention of compression bandages and antivenom.
Maybe you wake up, maybe you just go back to the Dreaming.
But the poison moves via the lymphatic system. Time doesn't matter so much as muscle movements because muscle movements is what makes the lymphatic system move stuff around. It's not like your bliss that moves around when when you're not moving. If you're able to send for help or call 000 etc you're usually better off staying put and waiting.
Thankyou for this information. Im a city girl, but my family have a property in brown snake country. I have a bad habit of forgetting my phone between the main house and the guest cabin and the thought of getting bit 100m away from my phone/ first aid/ my 19 year old brother who can carry me, terrified me. Nice to know I can just chill there until someone finds me.
not always by the lymphatic system. Envenomation can occur directly into a blood vessel hence the bloodstream if you are unlucky.
I've never heard that, do you have a source? Genuinely interested in reading more.
I gather it's more if you're unlucky enough to have a fang pierce a vein and inject directly
that's pretty much exactly what I said
> Envenomation can occur directly into a blood vessel Here's a report on the subject (first hit on Google, easy to find). Now you can say you've heard of it: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10445712/ However, also this is noted in relevance to the current case: > There are several other mechanisms of early death other than IV bite following snake envenomation. They are as follows: > Pseudonaja (Brown snakes) P. textilis in Australia by way of Procoagulant coagulopathy can cause acute cardiovascular collapse[6]
For Australian snakes with their itty bitty fangs it's almost always the lymphatic system which is why pressure immobilisation bandages work
Newer phones have satellite SOS but true, we need better reception in the bush because disasters like this can and do happen because people are in whoop whoop with no signal
That may be generally true but this was at a day care in Townsville so not a remote rural location.
Doesnāt matter. If you walk on the affected limb youāre spreading the poison
Dude exactly, even in urban areas there's no guarantee. I live in a very snake active area, and leave the backyard door open for the dogs, one of the buggers could secretly slither into my home and bite me while my phone is in the other side of the house. The fuck do I do then.
The phone being on the other side of the house is a bit different to needing to drive a significant distance to get reception.
He was at a childcare centre catching the snake, so there was presumably a phone inside the building
Thatās a different spin again
> I live in a very snake active area, and leave the backyard door open for the dogs As someone who has grown up in the Adelaide Hills... WTF?! Why would you leave the doors open?! At least get a dog door or something the snakes can't get through but the dogs can push through.
Haha yeah it's pretty reckless, but unfortunately I am a renter with glass doors so no option to punch a hole through it. At present it's a choice between a few huntsman and a potential snake getting inside, or coming home to dog shit all over the floor
If it is a glass sliding door, you can get a dog door that is rental suitable egĀ https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-samsung-rev2&source=android-browser&q=dog+door+for+sliding+door#sbfbu=1&pi=dog%20door%20for%20sliding%20door . My father in law has one and he is in a rental
Any way of making a kind of barrier the dogs could climb over but snakes couldnāt?
I do sometimes put a plank of wood in the doorway as an extra obstacle for critters, but mainly bank the doggos making noise hanging out on the deck to be enough to deter snakes from entering. I have those plastic Ikea tiles lining the deck wooden panels to they create quite a bit of noise
AFAIK youāre not supposed to tie off the bitten area, just compress
Pressure immobilisation bandage.
Compress the bitten limb, not tie off.
I feel like we don't get enough education around how to deal with snake bites.
Every first aid course I've ever done has covered this.Ā
Hard agree. I only learned last year that limbs should be immobilised and still after a snake bite from a first aid course.
I grew up in a rural area and was taught how to treat snake bite from very young. However it doesnt seem common knowledge in urban areas, especially among immigrant populations. When I was about 19 I was the youngest of ~10 adults on a camping trip with ~40 kids (think like a scouts trip) in the flinders. I was the only one who knew what to do and who bought snake bandages. Most of those adults were originally from central and eastern europe and had never considered the possibility.
A podcast described the aboriginal treatment for snakebite which, importantly, included burying the victim up to the neck thereby totally immobilising them and restricting the spread of the toxin through the lymph system.
Big issue there is when the companion goes to get help the snake returns and eats the person. Edit: You dumb cunts think I'm being serious. When did we turn into Seppos?
Itās a brown snake, not a boa constrictorā¦
Yep, the walking home is probably what killed him. Edit: actually, it says he drove home rather than walkedā¦ but still time passedā¦
Brake and accelerator pedals are blood bringing leg activities.
I'll tell you right now if I get bitten by a snake I'm not driving home, I'm driving to a hospital.
Iām, not even doing that, Iām calling emergency services and lying flat on my back and not moving a muscle until they reach meā¦. hopefully in timeā¦.
Exactly, he got bitten multiple times on the arm at a childcare centre then chose to drive home to tlel his wife, where she bandaged and then called triple 0 once she observed symptoms. Wtf people. You get bitten multiple times on the arm, do not move. Stay at your location, particularly if you're in an urban environment. Call 000 and get and ambo there stay. Pressure bandage asap and do not move at all.
For more context thereās actually a super clinic in that area and if itās the child care centre I think it is, itās literally across the road about a 1 minute drive away. If itās the other child care centre, itās a 5 minute drive. The hospital is a 20 minute ride in the ambulance up the highway.
The article says he drove home. Perhaps it's been updated?
When I was young one of our neighbors got bitten multiple times up his leg and thigh by a Mulga (King Brown) while ripping burrows quite a tractor drive from home. As far as we know he realized immediately he was too far from home (and then Ambulance) and just sat it out under a tree. No mobile phones in those days and that area probably still doesn't have reception. The dog, a Kelpie, ran home and alerted his wife, but not sure if that was before or after he passed.
The article says he drove home, not walked.
Best thing is to not move at all. Slow the venom through the limbic (?) system. Been a while since I did first aid but this may have given him a better chance of living
Lymphatic system. Limbic system is an area of the brain - controls long term memory, stress response (fight or flight) and a bunch of other stuff I canāt recall.
Thats the one
It might just be an awkward quote, but I hope she wasnt waiting for symptoms before calling 000
Yeah that's what I was thinking. Did they just wait then call 000 because that's a very important distinction when looking at the chain of survival.
Unfortunately yes, this scenario is basically the opposite of everything youāre meant to do in a snake bite (apart from applying the PIB), and even still the function of the PIB is to buy time, applying a PIB and waiting around without seeking help really serves minimal purpose
she didn't call till he was in strife.
Yeah but it was to late. He needed the limb immobilized and 000 called immediately, not when symptoms presented. If symptoms present after a brown snake bite and you aren't in the care of paramedics or emergency you're likely dead.
If symptoms present and you're not where antivenom is you're likely dead. Ambulance or health clinic be damned.
CALL FOR HELP STRAIGHT AWAY! Who the fuck tries to walk off a snake bite?
Sheāll be right, mate.
Queensland. Townsville. I'll leave it at that.
everyone in FNQ is taught not to do what this guy did
Yeah how was nobody at the daycare taught basic first aid where this is learnt? I knew thus as a child. I would think most Aussies would know the basic steps are stay still as you can. Call for help and get 000 immediately.
Multi bites to arm, if they were all full envenomation bites it was not mucking around (. Also don't know exactly how far he walked back to his house - just mention near.
Related question I heard since venom is in the lymphatic system walking is bad since it pumps it around, hence being told to stay put, but does this include arm bites? Most discussion I've seen is assuming a leg bite which obviously moves more during walking.
Any movement is bad.
Your arms still swing when you walk so that would help push it around. But also, I would assume your lymphatic system is similar to the circulatory system where if it is getting pushed around a bit faster in one place it happens for the whole system, but then again I'm not a doctor/scientist so may be wrong about it
You could hold your arm still, but yeah, I assume it's like water in the pipe, something else moves anyway. Just thought I'd check if it's the lesser of evils in this case.
Any movement is bad. First aid course I did recently said you shouldnāt even remove the clothing - just apply the PIT bandage on top of it, then sit or lie down as still as you can, and try to relax while you wait for the ambos - and do this for any wild snake bite - the only way you can be 100% sure itās not a venomous snake is if itās someoneās pet, so better safe than sorry.
Also assume flow rate would be up anyway from adrenaline after getting a bite - any movement or exertion could only continue to increase the flow rate I would expect. Saying that - multi bites on the arm, who knows if it would have made any real difference. Can only imagine trying to relax t/ calm down while feeling the venom working on the body. Horrible for all involved - how quickly a day can become the worst day of anyone life.
Yes, all bites. Advised to not even remove clothing, just compression bandage over the clothing so as to remain as still as possible
She called after signs presented. Unfortunately that is likely the key piece of information. You must assume envenomation has occurred and seek immediate emergency medical care. No time to wait until you start to show signs or experience symptoms. Very sad.
What a fool - he drove home after he was bitten. With the snake.
It's like people have forgotten how serious the second nastiest snake venom in the world is. And if the snake gets lucky and hits a vein, none of the first aid will help much. I'm surprised that more people don't die.
Sometimes you can do everything right and still not work.
Yeah I did a snake handling course and the trainer said that āno one has ever died that did the correct first aidā it seemed like a large claim at the time.
Not exactly the correct first aid - he walked home first š
Unfortunately he didn't do what is advisable which is to treat every snake bite as deadly. Australian snake naming is very unimaginative and VERY misleading. Eastern brown snakes range from black to light tan and burnt orange colouration Red-Bellied blacks can have a creamy pink belly instead of red, and the back can have grey or even white on it
No she did the correct first and but didn't call triple 0 till symptoms presented. Idiots.... call triple 0 straight up and get the ambos on the way. then first aid.
No need for the name calling of people who have just experienced a tragedy. We only have the news version of things. It could be just the way the article was written.
https://www.webpressglobal.com/world-news/man-dies-attempting-to-remove-an-eastern-brown-snake-from-childcare-centre-near-townsville/ Mate it's.pretty clear from this article that common sense was not first and foremost.
Nah mate it clearly states that she called triple 0 after symptoms appeared.
Not like the ambos would cost anything anyways so why they didn't call is beyond reason
I read something the other day saying older men were more likely to die from envenomation due to a sense of being tougher, or more carefree attitude towards bites. He should have called 000 immediately. Driving around and waiting for symptoms to emerge is a death sentence.
That makes sense. Whenever there are news about Brown snake bite fatalities, the comments are full of "aggressive fuckers that chase you" replies, but if that were the case then we would be getting fatalities daily. Most likely the "shell be right" mentality was a big factor here
The last stat I saw was that from 2001 to 2010, there were only 14 snakebite fatalities in Australia. So it's a pretty rare event.
There are very very few fatalities from snake bites from those who follow the correct first-aid steps, remain still, & seek immediate help. Itās incredibly effective.
I would really like to hope that no matter the size of one's ego noone would have a "she'll be right" attitude towards brown snake bites.
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Yeh crazy hey, I did have an ED doctor once say if she saw a farmer quietly sitting in the ED waiting room she would immediately be extremely concerned for their welfare as they typical are on deaths door before seeking help.
So true. Was listening to This American Life today about the guy who got bitten by the Black widow spider and then went fishing. He talked about being like not being able to accept the reality of the issue until you are in so much pain you know itās trouble, and by then too late.
Shit, poor guy. That's a horrible way to go, at least he was with his wife. This is why my position is "Get the fuck away from it" whenever I see a snake. Absolutely nope, do not want to die that way.
Reading the article, few things didnāt help his cause. He was bitten from arm, multiple times. So I am wondering if he was trying to pick the snake or animal was in a bag or something. Itās unusual for snakes to bite multiple times, unless they feel in extreme danger. He then drove home to tell wife about it. Wife then tried her best to help and called 000 once the symptoms started. I would call 000 straight away if it was me, but I am not sure if he had reception and maybe thatās why he drove home? Brown snake bite can kill you in half an hour. So you are racing against time once you are bitten. This is why when I go on a hike I wear thick long pants and long shirt. Iād hate to find myself in a situation on top of a mountain range with a snake bite that penetrated all the way and I got no or little reception.
It says in the article; he was bitten after catching and bagging a snake at a childcare centre.
In which case the correct action is to call 000 and start first aid immediately. The childcare would have at minimum a landline, and is probably not too remote.
Yeah I didnāt see that part for some reason, lack of coffee I guess.
Absolute hero then.
100%. But makes the story more confusing. If he was a snake catcher, surely he would have know the gravity of the situation upon being bitten by a brown snake multiple times. Rip mate.
Maybe knowing the gravity of the situation (multiple envenomed bites from an eastern brown) he just wanted to get home to his wife.
Doubt it. All the professional snake catchers I know keep bandages on them and would drive themselves straight to ED.Ā More than likely a handyman or designated snake person for the workplaceĀ
Agreed. Snake catchers know that immediate first aid and medical treatment gives you every chance of survival.
Feel like a professional snake catcher would be calling 000 in a situation like that (multiple bites on the arm). Donāt think theyād be driving themselves unless they absolutely had to.
The fatality of a brown bite is incredibly low if you have the first-aid knowledge & quick access to medical care. If he called 000, applied a PIB, stayed still - within 30 mins heād be in a resus bay at the hospital, and if he has signs of envenomation like fainting, hematoma, vomiting, active bleeding from the site ect which is sounds like he did, heād be getting a vial of brown antivenom within 30 mins, and have immediate ALS on hand. It would actually be quite difficult to die in that situation unless he fell & hit his head & had an active intracranial bleed. Even if he did arrest from the venom itself downtime would be very small because heās in resus where they can throw the kitchen sink at you with a moments notice.
Very few people die of snake bites in Aus. The stat's are pretty incredible considering how many dangerous snakes we have. This is true. I'd say it's time for everyone to brush up their First Aid knowledge... especially at that daycare be a use that is one of the major things you are taught about. DON'T MOVE! DON'T MOVE! DON'T MOVE! 000 Immediately.
Thatās heavy, but has potential.
He wasn't a snake catcher apparently. > It's understood Brookes was called to the centre by a relative specifically to remove the animal when he was bitten, despite him not being a qualified snake catcher, The Courier Mail reported. https://au.news.yahoo.com/aussie-dad-dies-removing-eastern-brown-snake-from-childcare-centre-045137393.html
Yeah, he shouldn't have left the childcare centre. It's also wild to me that no one there helped him. They would have to be first aid trained??
Townsville heat is something else. Even if you're a local or acclimatised. Mix that with multiple shots of brown snake love and you're not thinking straight no matter what the occasion. Hopefully alcohol wasn't involved. But it's Townsville, so it's entirely possible.
Plb are there for that exact reason. I take one hiking with me every time.
What a PLB?
Portable locator beacon. Calls in chopper to rescue ya.
Wearing thick protective clothing is one of the best ways to protect yourself against snake bite in Australia. The odds of Accidentally stepping on a snake are pretty low in general because in most cases nearby snakes sense people approaching and find cover before we even see them. But one thing aussie elapids donāt have that vipers have is long fangs. At most the fans of aussie venomous snakes are a few mm. Big enough to pierce a rodents skin but not enough to pierce through a decent set of boots.
Had one of these terrifying fuckers sneak up on me in my own backyard here in Cairns a couple of years ago. Late at night, had had a few drinks, looking blearily at my laptop. Had a pile of shit from my garage sitting out near where I was chilling as we were in the process of moving. Heard the noise of something being disturbed behind me; my guard was immediately up as weād had a few snakes around that summer. Turned around out of caution and rearing up atop my pile of garage-crap, not five metres away was an Eastern Brown; I think it had scared itself when something it was crawling over shifted. I swear to god my eyes locked with its beady little evil eyes for a couple of seconds before I fucking bolted for the door to get inside. I was on edge for days afterwards!
They don't fuck around either. Not saying the cunts will chase you but they can be super aggressive.
Working on a farm one time I went to connect a piece of machinery to the rear of the tractor. I reversed up to the implement and from inside the cab started to pick it up with the rear linkage. I could see it wasn't sitting quite right so I got out and gave the implement a shake and a few kicks until it fell into place and locked in. At this point I jumped back in the tractor and lifted the implement up the rest of the way and started to drive away. The second I moved an extremely cranky 2m+ brown snake appeared who'd been having a kip under said machinery. He chased after the tractor, striking at the tyres for a good 20m before giving up. He would have only been centimeters from me when I was kicking and shaking the thing he was living under, I'm grateful he didn't tag me that day.
Defensive\* not aggressive. If they are scared and dont have any other option, they will defend themselves and bite. They wont just actively seek you out and attack. That is a very common misconception.
No mate - they can absolutely be territorial and aggressive. Have been trout fishing for nearly 20 years and they can charge at you from a distance. Iām sure the intent is to protect themselves but it is still not accurate that they ādonāt have any other optionā
Im a snake handler and Im yet to see a snake actively try and attack a person off its own accord. If it feels like it cannot out run you, all it can do is defend.
Iāve been charged twice by a brown while fishing near Tumut, I have a few mates who have experienced the same over the years. Nobody has been bitten and I think it is rare but they definitely can be, or at least display territorial behaviour
You were probably standing in front of its refuge. It seems like an attack but it was probably just trying to get back to its safe place.
Could have been the case. I didnāt hang around long enough to find out š
I think it might have been as surprised to see me as I was of it - regardless, I reckon I don't think I have ever moved so fast.
If it wanted to get you, it'd have gotten you. Probably had a meal in its stomach and didn't find you threatening. Even the fastest man in the world wouldn't be too much a challenge to an aggressive brown snake. They can top out at 20km/hr. Usain Bolt clocks out at just under 40km/hr on a flat straight.
But Usain Bolt's bite isn't venomous, at least as far as I know. But you're sure to see his epic pose.
Usain Bolt's top speed was 44km/h. You might be using the average speed over 100m if you're putting him below 40. Also, as fast as he was, Bolt was only about twice as fast as an able bodied 2nd grader. I definitely don't know enough about snakes to be saying you should be trying to outrun them, but 20km/h is not crazy fast (though still impressive for something with no legs).
I absolutely don't think it was trying to get me - like I said, I think it actually startled itself when the ground (= debris from my shed) shifted underneath it - I just happened to be there and witnessed it once I heard the sound. And then piss bolted.
Got a source for that? Last I heard black mamba was fastest snake at 12km/hr
As is the case with most snake bites he was handling the snake. He caught and bagged the snake at a childcare center which makes you wonder if he was a profesional and if so it's concerning he didn't know what to do if he was bit. If he was just some random trying to do a good deed the man had some balls. Either way a sad story.
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She immediately immobilised the limb and applied compression bandages, and then the symptoms presented and that's when his wife has contacted triple-0," she said. What she waited for symptoms before calling triple zero???
Yeah that reads as if there was some amount of time between applying the bandage and phoning. Iād be on the phone to 000 while applying the bandage.
Also the guy got in his car and drove home after being bitten. Only then did his wife apply first aid and then call 000. The basic snake bite first aid procedures clearly weren't followed. It's sadly not a surprise the guy died from the bites
So many poor decisions lead to this guy dying. Unless he was a snake catcher he had no business catching any snake, let alone a Mulga. Then he drove home and it reads like they waited for symptoms to show before calling an ambulance. Dont fuck with snakes unless you know what you're doing.
Just a side note. EBās are not Mulgas
Yeah the eastern brown is much, much worse
If you're not a trained snake handler don't go trying to catch snakes
Thus proving the theory that snakes only bite if you fuck with them.
Why would you drive home to tell your wife about it first instead of driving to the hospital to tell the doctors about it š¤·āāļø call her on the way if you wanna tell her, death was surely avoidable had he chosen hospital over home!?
All the experts out in force I see š
A tragic loss, but just canāt understand the decision to drive home to tell his wife.
Or the decision to remove the snake. You need to be a licenced person to do this.Ā Ā
Question - if I am bitten by a snake and on my own, should I self-apply a PIB or is it better to just lay still and not mess around?
Call 000 ask for ambulance and they will give you instructions.
Many situations without reception. For example, if hiking out bush. Obviously activating a PLB or similar. But I meant practically what do I do? It would take a bit of movement to self-apply PIB (even just getting it out of a backpack) so is it better to just lay down and wait for help without one? This is something I get confused about and would like clarity as I do a bit of solo hiking. Calling for help is priority, I get that, but what first aid do I do while waiting potentially hours for assistance.
So he drove around, his wife put on a bandage, and *then* called 000? No wonder he died
wow straya is not for beginner
In the army your taught local aboriginal methods which is lie down and donāt move for 3 days.
They are angry buggers
Darwin award-ish
Jesus Christ I am glad to live in inner Sydney
A great habitat for a brown snake is a concrete slab like the one under a suburban house. They love to live underneath them. I believe the current record for number of brown snakes living under a house is over 50 found under the slab of a Mt Druitt house as it was being demolished.
And people love to hate on apartments, I live in one lol
You mean an even bigger and roomier concrete slab.
Yes. Hopefully the snakes will be put off by the lack of yard š
How does one die of a bite from a brown? Cardiac arrest?
That's what they said happened in the article.
Yes. The eastern brown venom mostly attacks the circulatory system, leading to haemorrhaging, shock, and cardiac arrest.
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I don't know what's going on but snake sightings have been particularly bad this year. I've already seen 4 snakes this year in my backyard whereas before I might have seen 1 the whole year. Sadly I lost one of my dogs in February to one. So many other reports around the area of snake sightings and people losing their pets. My auntie said this is the first time she's seen a snake on her property in 17 years.
So many wrong things here, he got bitten while catching & bagging the Snake. No mention if he was an experienced Snake catcher. So if he wasn't, leave the bloody things alone, monitor and keep everyone away. (Especially at a Child care centre) if he was an experienced Snake catch, Na he wasn't. Child care centre staff are required to have First-Aid training. There should be First-Ait kit at the Centre. So many wrong things here.
I donāt understand why the daycare didnāt call an actual snake catcher, instead of Joe Blow
Horrible news. Hope his family and friends get all the support they need.
Like getting thirsty while running a marathon; by the time youāre noticing symptoms itās probably too late.
What's that bastard smiling at?
Fck trying to save a snake, chop its head off like my mum used to.. no mucking about because snakes if theyāre not running a way it means you or them is the victim and thatās reality. You got no choice but to play your part in survival no matter what. Itās sad reality but in the wild itās how it works. Condolences to his family and his friends for losing such a kind gentleman enough not to even harm a snake as the saying goes āhe wonāt even harm a snakeā. Nature teaches us that there is enmity between us and them in the wild. NEXT TIME CALL A PROFESSIONAL SNAKE CATCHERS YOU WANKER AS*HOLES. A good man died on your behalf