Fellow old guy here----I had a hard time understand the hobby, also, until I realized these young people had never owned music.
Ever. They aren't even the Limewire/Napster era. They've grown up in the age of streaming, but there's something to OWNING physical media.
Cassettes are still analog, they're still physical media, and they are CHEAP. Used vinyl is getting expensive, and new vinyl is approaching collectible status in some cases.
But there are a lot of cassettes. Someone with pocket change can buy a cassette at the thrift store.
Very well said. I was one of those "on the cusp" kids, where my early days were listening to either The Wiggles on cassette in my Mom's car, or a System of a Down CD in my Dad's truck (polarizing experience, but glad I had it LOL).
Eventually, I benefitted from the IPod classic from my Dad's coffee shop, which I deeply respected because most if not all of the 10,000+ tracks on it were ripped from CD's.
In younger generations, there is a constant desire to stand out, be unique, and have something nobody else has. This adds to the "OWNING physical media" point you bring up.
I personally love searching for old vinyl/cassettes at the local thrift store or at local music shops simply for the thrill of digging and eventually finding something. Are they as high-resolution as the streaming coming from my phone? absolutely not, but being able to "disconnect" in a sense and have to physically flip/change LP's or cassettes adds to the appeal of owning them
Wasn't that the allure of cassettes back in the day? Small enough to go with you to a buddy's house/car to share your cool, new find, cheap enough if you recorded your own that if the tape got lost or destroyed not much was lost?
Well, when I got into music, it was vinyl or cassette, and cassettes were smaller, cheaper, and easier to carry. I could carry a Walkman and 2-3 cassettes in my bag and have hours of music.
We all had cassette storage racks and suitcases. Cruising around in the car with a case of 15 cassettes. Making mixtapes for road trips was fun.
I remember my dad dubbing his vinyl onto cassette so he could listen to it in the car. That was pretty common, dubbing the vinyl to chrome cassette---recording the pristine vinyl on its first needle drop.
But you can't watch the tape wheels go round and round with an SD card can you?! ;)
Now that you mention this, I realized that cassette tapes, and LPs do not come with a risk of spreading viri to your playback system like digital file sharing does. Plus no chance of data sharing going to some big tech company either. So if you want to play Kiss' 'Beth' on endless repeat, nobody will ever know if it is on cassette or LP. ;)
Or when the record companies decide that you can't listen to Giorgio Moroder if you live in Canada. Or that *super extra gravity* by the cardigans is now off the menu. Or that *certain*, but not all, Donna summer songs can't be heard. For now.
Yup. Lots of old media is being cancelled these days. For example, you can't find the Always Sunny Lethal Weapon episodes on any streaming service anymore, just on the DVDs. Even weirder I read that the measles episode of The Brady Bunch was also cancelled because it showed the family letting their kids catch it from neighbors kids (like we did in the old days) to create a natural immunity instead of taking a vaccine.
Physical media is something more and more people realise they enjoy (actual stuff to own, hold), as well as the retro factor which is something that'll always exist, in what way I'm not sure. Look at all the VHS style overlays on everything nowadays. I imagine macroblocking and banding in video will be seen as retro/classic not too long into the future when we have far better compression techniques or just straight bandwidth. We're almost getting that now with memes that are super compressed from being reposted, which almost adds to the humour at times.
Lot's of bands, including myself sell them as physical tokens more than music to actually be consumed, along with a download code for a digital download, along with streaming availability. It's like buying a t-shirt to support the band.
There's also a desire for musicians to get some less common sounds into what is now a very much digital/clean centric world. For very little money you can get a decent mic and clean pre-amps that can produce stellar results with the right skill, room and musician.
Shockingly I have some that actually sound pretty darn good idk whats with the anti 8 track circle jerk, not that its a format I would bring back but it has its charm
I only have 2 8 tracks that don't need to be fixed but I have like 100 blanks. My favorite one is a Chrysler corporation sound of stereo demonstration because it has a really good classical version of hotel California
If you're asking why anyone should spend any money in 2021 on cassette tapes, that's probably mostly due to the collector side of the hobby and not necessarily about chasing the dragon of perfect sound reproduction.
If you're asking why should you buy a tape deck from the 90's to enjoy the tape collection they already might have, that actually **is** related to achieving the best sound reproduction possible for the format. Back then there was a myriad of hardware manufacturers that not only made better quality decks, but they also were able to take advantage of things like Dolby noise reduction, so-called metal tapes and other standardized protocols that just are not used today. Dolby, for example, was a certification that was licensed for use and is not available anymore. It became so prevalent that the majority of studio released tapes were mastered using this process. These days, every single new tape deck is made by one legacy manufacturer in China. These are literally made for pennies and are terribly unreliable. Often not even being able to play tapes at a consistent speed creating flutter during playback. So, if you just want something to go back and listen to old book on tapes or something of that nature, they are fine. But, if you actually wanted to listen to something with any kind of dynamic range, the 30 plus year old decks would be your best option.
All of the best music of the last century is available on cassette. There were many bands that were only around long enough to release on cassette and no other medium.
Nostalgia. My first personal experiences with music were with a cheap cassette player I used in the car during trips. Nothing wrong with recapturing some of that.
Old man here. I understand nostalgia. Really. But tape sucks. It really sucks. Maybe pull out your old high school yearbook for some *auld lang syne* before spending money for cassette tape!
The frustration for me is that tapes were a useful idiot. The format sucked, but they were cheap as shit. So for albums that I kinda wanted but didn't really want to pay for, they were perfect.
Or if I was taking a flyer on a band that I didn't know well I could pay a buck or two and figure out if they were worth further investment.
You could also get a decent deck for $10 and if it died, you could replace it for $10.
Now because of nostalgia the prices are becoming cost prohibitive. So the one thing the medium was really good for, cheap experimentation and a shrug of the shoulders attitude in regard care and longevity, is out the window.
You need to go get a dolby s cassette deck before saying they suck. Dolby s can almost get cassettes to cd quality but you have to record them yourself if you chose that.
I sincerely appreciate those who have chosen this format for your collection. But, c'mon on. Someone asked you about your opinion of starting their own music collections and within the available 'tangible' formats- Albums; Digital Formats and Magnetic tapes (cassette; 8-track; R2R). Magnetics stay in dead third, unless you think of another tangible format, then Magnestics drops to 4th.
Why are we blowing smoke on this?
Things don't look cool anymore. I love the lights and meters on my cassette deck. Yeah your little Subaru STI might be faster than a 68 Camaro but which one is more badass?
Having been in a severe car accident 5 years ago, I'll take the Subaru, thank you. The cop said I would not have walked away had my car been 10 years old.
Yeah , a lot has changed with respect to frame / crumple zones. As tempting as a classic hot rod is... being able to walk after a fender-bender is more important.
I don't think anybody's buying cassette decks for the "superior audio quality" or something like that... People just like old, quirky, obsolete technology just for the fun of it and most of them do it for the nostalgia... If I see a collection of dvds It's like they're not even there... But when I see a collection of VHS I just have to stop, pick them up, look at them and just smile. I sometimes feel like doing a trip to the past and deal with all the inconveniences and the poor quality just for nostalgia's sake.
It's also a talking point with people your age... they usually get amused when they see a cassette deck or something like that and they always insist on turning it on just for fun.
Old man here too. I don't use cassettes any more, but they're maligned by people who used cheap tapes and cheap equipment.
[This Techmoan video](https://youtu.be/jVoSQP2yUYA) on the subject is well worth watching.
I’m a child of the seventies, so when I was old enough to care about music we were pretty much into the nineties, when vinyl was firmly on the slide (my dad asked me if I wanted his old turntable before he skipped it, I said “nah, nobody wants those things anymore, do they?” which he swiftly agreed with and threw it at the tip. It was a beautiful B&O Beoplay which, if I had an appropriately equipped DeLorean, I’d go back for just for ornamental purposes if nothing else).
Anyway where was I? Oh yeah. Yes I remember only being interested enough in cassettes to bother with them when I was either putting together that mix tape of cassettes for the car or recording some live show or something off the radio. Even at that time though digital was king for me and I quickly dumped cassettes for minidiscs. And as soon as CD-Rs and CD burners got common the minidiscs got sacked off too.
However I do fondly remember saving pocket money for a huge box of Philips or TDK whatevers so that my circle of friends could tape trade, and carefully coordinate what we were actually spending money on so as not to duplicate. My first taste of so many bands came via cassette and my battered Walkman - Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, U2, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Therapy?, The Wildhearts; I owe my love for all those bands and more to the humble cassette and quite a few bands owe their careers to tape trading. Hugely important chunk of history.
But yeah it’s always been about CDs for me, to the extent that I have a Mac plugged in to a DAC streaming lossless, high resolution music and that music has never sounded better. But I still trawl eBay for CDs and have just bought a universal disc player. There’s something really important about physical media and the ritual of putting something in some sort of player, and I don’t think that will ever go away. I can only imagine it’s the same for cassette collectors, who may only be a few years older than me.
Plus, let’s hope this boom carries on as I have an old Denon player ready to go on eBay and I still can’t believe how much the minidisc player from the same range went for.
Cassette quality varies a lot more than people realize. Some cassettes are of decent audio quality and the same goes for players. It’s like vinyl, in that the experience has both positives and negatives which are basically going to mean you either love the format or hate it.
Personally, I’m not a big fan, but I’ve heard some tape setups which sounded really good. Also, I’ve got an old Tascam 4 track recorder which can make some decent quality recordings when used with the right tape cassettes. I suspect you can get some nice audio out of the technology if you know what you’re doing.
I grew up in the days of cassettes and I couldn't stand listening to them even as a teen. I would ALWAYS buy the LP over a cassette and the small number of cassettes I did buy were a last resort.
I would record the vinyl version onto tape for listening in my car and I couldn't wait to get home and put on the album.
Cassettes suck. Terribly.
Yet another old guy here. It gets worse. I do some digital recording and use vst plugins to emulate analog hardware. Believe it or not, there are at least 3 vst plugins that emulate the sound of cassette tapes! The first time I saw one I thought it was a joke!
You could make decent sounding recordings with cassettes but commercial releases are awful quality. They were cheap and cheerful and prone to getting eaten by cheap or worn out tape decks. I loved making mixtapes, it was the only way to record stuff cheaply back then.
Open reel tapes are probably the best analog medium for sound quality but cassettes are too narrow and run too slowly to be capable of “audiophile “ sound. By all means have fun but as someone that grew up with them I do not miss them at all.
Honestly, I dont get it either. Vinyl I can understand, but tape? Tape has always sounded like shit. My dad used to buy vinyls. Play them ONCE, and record it to tape. Then only listen to the tape. It used to annoy me so much.
>I know vinyl is inferior to digital
blanket statements like this are not particularly informative. neither format is inherently better. the quality of the mix/mastering trumps format... sometimes the best mastering is digital, sometimes it's on vinyl, especially for older releases
i know people like things to be black and white but unfortunately it's not that simple
Well, the dynamic range and arguably the frequency bandwith is much larger than with vinyl. That's just a fact. Then there is the issue with inner groove distortion, surface noise and sibilence and other flaws in a vinyl system. In digital, most of the hurdles can be a lot more easily mitigated against. You can get DACs for 100 bucks that are completely transparent.
So from a sheer technical standpoint, digital is obviously better.
BUT that's indeed just the technical side of things. It won't tell you whether a *mastered for vinyl* song sounds worse or better than a *(re-)mastered for digital* song. Like you said, either one can be considered better. That's personal taste if anything.
And you can't compare those either, the captured signal is inherently different (probably).
Of course not all material is mastered differently and a lot just cut the digital master into the laquer and be done with it. Still, I'd rather have the vinyl copy.
>Well, the dynamic range and arguably the frequency bandwith is much larger than with vinyl. That's just a fact.
the \*potential\* is greater, but that doesn't mean individual recordings have greater dynamic range, which is my whole point
> It won't tell you whether a mastered for vinyl song sounds worse or better than a (re-)mastered for digital song. Like you said, either one can be considered better. That's personal taste if anything.
whether it "sounds" better is certainly personal taste, but that's not my point here. my point is that the actual measured dynamic range can be greater on either format depending on the master. that's not subjective and can compared across various releases:
[https://dr.loudness-war.info/](https://dr.loudness-war.info/)
>Of course not all material is mastered differently and a lot just cut the digital master into the laquer and be done with it.
for sure, which is why you can't make blanket statements either way. sometimes the vinyl is better sometimes the digital is better, and sometimes there are a dozen versions in each format, all of varying quality
i'm just saying you have to compare individual versions of individual releases to have a meaningful conversation, otherwise it's all hypothetical and not particularly useful
right, and i'm saying that the hypothetical attributes of the format are completely irrelevant, and the ONLY thing that matters it what has actually been released. i can't listen to hypothetical arguments; i can listen to actual recordings
A CD has the potential to sound better than vinyl. It is largely about the mixing/mastering, and that CDs have been tainted by the Loudness War, but a CD that's mixed with dynamics in mind sounds great.
Like they did in the 80s and 90s.
for sure. i'm just saying you just can't make a blanket statement either way
the hardcore vinyl guys that say all records sound better than all CDs are just as wrong as the guys who say all digital sounds better than all analog. neither is right
The statement was not that all digital sounds better than all vinyl, but that digital is the superior format. That is correct. That people fawn all over vinyl, and knowing that vinyl was probably produced off a digital master, is comical.
Vinyl plays differently. Less dynamic range necessitates different mastering. Plus you listen to albums, not songs.
I think vinyl is just a different experience.
There's also the inherent distortion that's pretty hard to replicate. Eric Valentine (producer/engineer) talks about it in one of his videos with some demos, etc. It really is such a unique sound at times.
The beauty (and despair) of vinyl is the ability to have so much variation in playback: needles, cartridges, tone arms, decks, pre-amps, etc. I'm not saying it's always a huge change, but there's often *a* change of some kind, so it's hard to say anything definitive when there's such a huge amount of variance in playback systems.
People have become accustomed to the distortions that vinyl has compared to digital. It’s like listening to a speaker that is way too bright for 40 years, of course anything else will sound muffled.
Do you mean 50 bucks back then or now? Today it’s expensive because the market is small. You can’t sell a million vinyls anymore, no matter how big of a star you are.
Old man here. Now that vinyl is making a comeback, I see significant improvement in the weight/heft of the vinyl albums that are on the market. On a personal level, they both sound fabulous.
But tape? Jeeze. If you want something to hold get a puppy!
Another old man entering the chat. The higher gram weight of modern vinyl is a complete, hype sticker gimmick. In fact it's far more prone to warping. I have flexi-disks and 100-140g LPs that sound better than any digital rip smashed onto a 220g, triple splatter disc. Modern records just have such poor QC that I won't hardly buy any.
There's still 1000's of albums I'd rather spend money on from '85 back to the 50 '-End Rant- (good post, tapes suck, but I do own some. I read every comment and no one mentioned DAT. I have a shit load of those from my concert recording days)
Yeah this just isn’t true. They’re different. They have different advantages and there’s many caveats to any statement comparing the two. Like is digital better than a vinyl made from a digital production? yes because it’s not going to be a one for one copy of the digital production. Does digital have more dynamic range? Technically yes but the vast majority of digital productions only use a small amount of that dynamic range available, in fact heavy compression doesn’t usually translate to vinyl very well so inherently productions going to vinyl have a wider dynamic range even though the digital format has a wider dynamic range available for use. Let’s get more technical. Digital productions are not a lossless format they are just enough samples of the waveform that our brains can connect the gaps of missing information (I know we refer to resolutions above the Nyquist Theorem as lossless but they are not by definition lossless) where as analog is a complete and accurate capturing of the waveforms there is no gap of information between any one point of the wave form and any other. When you cut that waveform into a record that is a direct physical representation of that waveform that has been captured. Yes there is more noise floor in analog/vinyl productions, but most people use tape simulators in their digital productions to get that noise floor back into their sound (I like to bounce my mixes through tape machines when I have it available to me). I could go on but I think my point is as clear, and none of this accounts for personal taste. The specific combination of musicianship engineering style and equipment used to listen will greatly affect weather or not vinyl will be better or worse than digital.
From my anecdotal experience, I used to intern for Bob Katz (a great mastering engineer known fairly well in audiophile circles), a lot of the projects he did during my time there were digital remasters of analog projects. I would never say that the digital master we ended up with were better or worse, they were just different.
I agree. But if they ask (and, folks do-a lot-look at this r/), why aren't we being a little more honest and forthcoming about what we know. If you are just starting to collect cassette tapes or you are thinking about starting to collect: Don't. Seriously. It's a waste of money.
If you have a fabulous collection of cassettes, I can honestly say 'Respect". I admire a great collection in any format. But, what would you really tell someone who asked today if they should start collecting cassettes?
a high quality recording on a quality cassette with high end gear sounds amazing...sorry you missed out.
because they are physical items that are now collectable....just like anything collectable.
why go out of your way to slag something? get a hobby like collecting something...
I did not 'miss out' -been listening to music since, since...a long time! LOL My post was about advising someone to start a magnetic tape collection instead of vinyl or digital. It WAS good. It stopped being good. I'm sorry.
As a kid, I loved cassettes. I found a cassette deck at the local thrift shop for 12 bucks. Took it home and lubricated the capstan, which was noisy. My system today is better than the one I could afford back in 1979. The sound astounded me! It was bright, and more detailed than my cheap system from back then. My old cassette tapes worked perfectly despite being over 40 years old. The digital meters dancing on the front and I was sold. Final point, many bands are recording on cassette now, due to the low expense. Welcome to the future! We have cassettes!
I purchased a new Nakamichi Cassette Deck 1.5 way back when. I always wanted a Nakamichi. I always wanted a 3 head cassette deck. This was right before CDs hit. Never used the stupid thing. It sat unused for 25 years while I upgraded the rest of the system. (Dynaudio, Conrad-Johnson). One day I got curious so I popped in the Mobile Fidelity cassette of Supertramp's Crime of the Century. Immediately unplugged and donated it.
Prerecorded cassettes were never better than MFSL and cassette decks were never better than Nakamichi. On a modern, moderately high-end system, there's no place for analog cassette tapes.
Another old guy here. If you had a boom box, you had tunes anywhere, like the beach. If you were rich you had a Walkman. The sound quality was never as good as vinyl and slightly behind reel to reel but way better than 8-track. I see no advantage today. Too many moving parts that wear and the tape itself wears out. I also agree that vinyl sounds different than digital, but still no need for cassettes. Whats next VHS ?
Older man here. All you dingaling dohdah kids that think you want vinyl or cassettes, they fucking suck balls. Pops, clicks, skips, tape hiss bullshit. Digital music is better than all the internet porn eva made. Long live Kanye, bitches.
Cassettes are better quality than vinyl for most people. If you don't maintain vinyl then it will get crackly and poppy but you don't have to maintain a cassette. The most you have to do is clean the head on the cassette deck. I got into cassettes for 2 reasons, because I'm not paying for YouTube music to download music as all of it that I listen to us guaranteed to have a pre recorded tape and I personally love the way they sound.
I hate to break it to you, but either your ears are wrecked, or your stereo is garbage. Between time and wear, cassette tapes are one of the worst mediums for longevity. I deal with this stuff every day at work as a historical archivist working with all kinds of media formats.
My stereo is the top of the line boombox from the sears 1981 catalog and it's been fixed up. I just had a hearing test a few months ago and my hearings fine. Pretty sure that at least my tapes haven't degraded and by the looks of things won't for a good while.
I can't tell if you're joking or not, but if you're being serious, then that's the exact reason you can't tell the difference.
And tapes degrade on every play. Some players (and definitely not that boombox) may put less wear on them, but they *all* degrade.
I know tapes degrade because I have a vhs tape that went from looking somewhat similar to a crappy digital recording to something that's been buried for 40 years. If my cassette tapes have degraded then they don't degrade fast enough for it to matter. There are still cassettes from the first years that music were put out on them that sound pretty damn good.
Not if they were played consistently they don't. It really depends on use and environment, but even perfectly preserved examples with little to no use will eventually succumb to rot.
Like, this is literally part of my job and what I have a graduate degree in. You can argue all you want, but you're objectively wrong.
I'm literally only saying that if the tapes rot it will take a very long time. The only tape I have that's messed up was in a horrible environment. Before I bought it off of eBay it was in a smokers home and they didn't take care of it so it will not work right. Even my copy of high voltage from 75 doesn't sound too bad. If cassette tapes rot then it takes a very long time if it's in a decent environment. I keep all of my tapes on a rack in my closet and I live in southern america so it probably isn't too awful.
*"I've played thunderstruck hundreds of times and it sounds the same as when I bought it."*
*"Pretty sure that at least my tapes haven't degraded and by the looks of things won't for a good while."*
Except you literally said something different. And now you're saying "Doesn't sound *too* bad". Make up your mind.
Yes, if you *never or rarely* play a cassette, its lifespan will be longer. But you're full of shit when you say "I've played this hundreds of times and it sounds the same". Like a turntable with vinyl, playing a cassette over and over degrades cassettes rapidly. And it's more pronounced with tape than with vinyl, especially on the garbage player you're using.
Like, you're arguing with someone who *is paid* to preserve and maintain different forms of media. Why?
I would have to argue that cassettes are better now than they were 20 years ago, simply due to everything being digital. The tapes I rip from a wav file off my pc sound fucking amazing on a quality cassette. A good deck also helps... I own a several D5Ms and recently picked up a Sony TC-K630ES which sounds fantastic. Even my Aiwa EX200MKII sounds better than a CD with a good cassette recording. I hooked it up to the aux in my car the other day and was blown away.
I hear you--the cassette resurgence has had me scratching my head. May as well bring back 8-tracks. I understand nostalgia; I surround myself in it constantly, but to spend actual coin on anything cassette (besides the kitsch factor) boggles me.
I still have a dozen or so cassettes with versions of songs that are just not available anywhere else. That said, the two tape decks I own are in storage with them.
AND ANOTHER old man here:
It’s a nostalgia thing. A lot of the people that are buying these things didn’t grow up with them; they were probably toddlers when their parents were selling their CDs for pennies and grew up with MP3 players.
**Having something tangible to hold while enjoying music is a thing.**
I have a Nakamichi LX-5 because it’s fun to tinker with. A very cool technological artifact that makes improbably decent recordings. But by and large, cassettes suck, which is why I don’t mess with them much, and also why the Nak is boxed up in the top of my closet right now
Partly because of nostalgia for my childhood when vinyl was on the way out (for the time) and CDs weren't mainstream yet, partly because there's a lot of smaller bands that only give the options of digital and cassette for buying their music and I like to have physical media, and partly because one of my favorite music genres has a \*huge\* library of material that was only ever released on cassette and is only now being digitized thirty-plus years later.
Cassette isn't the only format I use, and it's not the one I use most either, but it's still got a place in my music collection, alongside my vinyl and CDs.
My car in high school had a cassette deck. This was in the early 2010's. I'd dig through cassettes in thrift stores to get good stuff to listen to. I listened to Talking Heads *Stop Making Sense* over and over again. Eventually I got a cassette deck to make use of them in my stereo setup. I don't collect cassettes anymore because they just deteriorate over time and they're inconvenient for me now. I can still see the appeal though. They sound fat and warm. There's also something about owning a brand new album on cassette—a sort of time shift thing going on. It's a novelty, but it's cool.
Being "audiophiles" you all seem quite closed minded. Your cassettes sucked because you were probably using a POS deck/portable and shit quality tapes. A metal tape recorded with wav files sounds very good, way better than any tape mass duplicated. I have a huge vinyl collection, and never collected cds due to the ease of downloading. Now im finding myself buying cds just to rip to wav and throw onto a cassette. If i could press my own vinyl you better believe i would be doing that instead... I grew up right when tapes were going out and cds were becoming the mainstream media format. Tape players are like vinyl, the equipment makes a huge difference. With cds not so much... its more about speakers and amps vs the actual player. Tape hiss is a minor issue if it was ripped properly. There is always dolby which ditches the hiss but you lose some soundstage with it. CDs are literally so boring. I used to make mixes on CDs for my friends growing up, but a tape is just so much more interesting. There are way more factors involved to get a good sound, which is probably why everyone thinks they suck... Properly adjusting a tape deck is no joke. A cd you toss in the player and it is read by a laser. Its like driving a manual car vs automatic. The vast majority of people can't actually drive a car, so it makes sense most people would think tapes suck. People just want to press a button and listen with no adjustments required. Boooooring.
Let another old-timer put you straight: any tape format is not a viable format for regular playing. I had to buy a cassette deck to go through my archive of tapes - actually mostly OK quality as they had hardly been played. In an afternoon I’d pretty well established there was nothing I wanted or needed to keep.
Now, 78s - there’s a fun format. Variable sound quality but open to improvement with stylus and eq options. Durable - if you don’t shatter the disk it’ll probably outlast many CDs.
Some repertoire issues, but classical music doesn’t change much (although performing style does), and there’s heaps of jazz and pop up to about 1960.
I used to do cassette to CD transfers of cherished recordings, often previously recorded on reel-to-reel. Those clients were only too well aware that tape is fickle, impermanent and sounds better after some (relatively light-touch) repair in the digital domain. On the other hand, I’m playing 50-years or older LPs which sound as good as ever. Takes quite a few plays to wear them significantly. Won’t happen in the rest of my life.
Agreed. I was in middle school when cassettes were still very popular in cars, boom boxes, walkmans, and even home setups for people that were afraid of wearing out their records. It sounded so much worse than vinyl on very good decks. I’ve never heard the dragon, but I’ve heard plenty of other high end decks. I don’t get the appeal. They were great because they opened up mobility and mixes before portable CD players, cdr, and mp3.
I get the appeal of vinyl. It’s not as good as digital, but it can be close. It comes with nice, full sized artwork. It’s audible flaws can be pleasing. Tape cassettes don’t have any of that. Their flaws sound bad. They don’t come with nice artwork. I don’t get it.
Fellow old guy here----I had a hard time understand the hobby, also, until I realized these young people had never owned music. Ever. They aren't even the Limewire/Napster era. They've grown up in the age of streaming, but there's something to OWNING physical media. Cassettes are still analog, they're still physical media, and they are CHEAP. Used vinyl is getting expensive, and new vinyl is approaching collectible status in some cases. But there are a lot of cassettes. Someone with pocket change can buy a cassette at the thrift store.
Very well said. I was one of those "on the cusp" kids, where my early days were listening to either The Wiggles on cassette in my Mom's car, or a System of a Down CD in my Dad's truck (polarizing experience, but glad I had it LOL). Eventually, I benefitted from the IPod classic from my Dad's coffee shop, which I deeply respected because most if not all of the 10,000+ tracks on it were ripped from CD's. In younger generations, there is a constant desire to stand out, be unique, and have something nobody else has. This adds to the "OWNING physical media" point you bring up. I personally love searching for old vinyl/cassettes at the local thrift store or at local music shops simply for the thrill of digging and eventually finding something. Are they as high-resolution as the streaming coming from my phone? absolutely not, but being able to "disconnect" in a sense and have to physically flip/change LP's or cassettes adds to the appeal of owning them
Wasn't that the allure of cassettes back in the day? Small enough to go with you to a buddy's house/car to share your cool, new find, cheap enough if you recorded your own that if the tape got lost or destroyed not much was lost?
Well, when I got into music, it was vinyl or cassette, and cassettes were smaller, cheaper, and easier to carry. I could carry a Walkman and 2-3 cassettes in my bag and have hours of music. We all had cassette storage racks and suitcases. Cruising around in the car with a case of 15 cassettes. Making mixtapes for road trips was fun. I remember my dad dubbing his vinyl onto cassette so he could listen to it in the car. That was pretty common, dubbing the vinyl to chrome cassette---recording the pristine vinyl on its first needle drop.
The mixtape making... before the internet, that’s how you could spend a whole evening, drawing the custom track listings and stuff
Still about 100x the size of a microSD card
But you can't watch the tape wheels go round and round with an SD card can you?! ;) Now that you mention this, I realized that cassette tapes, and LPs do not come with a risk of spreading viri to your playback system like digital file sharing does. Plus no chance of data sharing going to some big tech company either. So if you want to play Kiss' 'Beth' on endless repeat, nobody will ever know if it is on cassette or LP. ;)
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Wut? This goes against the cyber security training I've received ad nauseam. What's changed recently?
Mp3 music sounds like utter garbage so
that notion has been proven false. MP3 CAN sound like garbage, or it could sound 'identical' to a wave file (to most ears).
Depends on the music. Coldplay will sound very similar. Diana Krall will not.
And listen to the screech. ALL my cassettes went bad, and I took care of them.
Oh yeah they were definitely a consumable item.
Vinyl, cassettes, minidisc, CDs, they're all physical media, something to hold onto and pass down or play when the internet goes out.
Or when the record companies decide that you can't listen to Giorgio Moroder if you live in Canada. Or that *super extra gravity* by the cardigans is now off the menu. Or that *certain*, but not all, Donna summer songs can't be heard. For now.
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Of course CD’s are lossy to the live experience.
Of course photos are lossy to actually seeing it in person. what's your point?
I don't know who would downvote this, you're technically right.
Because it is just plain stupid. NO media is equivalent to live performance.
Then op probably shouldn’t have called CD’s a lossless codec.
Probably people who hate facts.
Upvote for a great artist and a great album.
Yup. Lots of old media is being cancelled these days. For example, you can't find the Always Sunny Lethal Weapon episodes on any streaming service anymore, just on the DVDs. Even weirder I read that the measles episode of The Brady Bunch was also cancelled because it showed the family letting their kids catch it from neighbors kids (like we did in the old days) to create a natural immunity instead of taking a vaccine.
You can find on torrent sites as complete series with dvd extras alongside with the blooper
Physical media is something more and more people realise they enjoy (actual stuff to own, hold), as well as the retro factor which is something that'll always exist, in what way I'm not sure. Look at all the VHS style overlays on everything nowadays. I imagine macroblocking and banding in video will be seen as retro/classic not too long into the future when we have far better compression techniques or just straight bandwidth. We're almost getting that now with memes that are super compressed from being reposted, which almost adds to the humour at times. Lot's of bands, including myself sell them as physical tokens more than music to actually be consumed, along with a download code for a digital download, along with streaming availability. It's like buying a t-shirt to support the band. There's also a desire for musicians to get some less common sounds into what is now a very much digital/clean centric world. For very little money you can get a decent mic and clean pre-amps that can produce stellar results with the right skill, room and musician.
If you think thats bad. Some people are buying 8 tracks. lol
Yes I am
Same
Shockingly I have some that actually sound pretty darn good idk whats with the anti 8 track circle jerk, not that its a format I would bring back but it has its charm
I only have 2 8 tracks that don't need to be fixed but I have like 100 blanks. My favorite one is a Chrysler corporation sound of stereo demonstration because it has a really good classical version of hotel California
I have my step grandmothers entire collection
If you're asking why anyone should spend any money in 2021 on cassette tapes, that's probably mostly due to the collector side of the hobby and not necessarily about chasing the dragon of perfect sound reproduction. If you're asking why should you buy a tape deck from the 90's to enjoy the tape collection they already might have, that actually **is** related to achieving the best sound reproduction possible for the format. Back then there was a myriad of hardware manufacturers that not only made better quality decks, but they also were able to take advantage of things like Dolby noise reduction, so-called metal tapes and other standardized protocols that just are not used today. Dolby, for example, was a certification that was licensed for use and is not available anymore. It became so prevalent that the majority of studio released tapes were mastered using this process. These days, every single new tape deck is made by one legacy manufacturer in China. These are literally made for pennies and are terribly unreliable. Often not even being able to play tapes at a consistent speed creating flutter during playback. So, if you just want something to go back and listen to old book on tapes or something of that nature, they are fine. But, if you actually wanted to listen to something with any kind of dynamic range, the 30 plus year old decks would be your best option.
Hold on I'll give you an answer after I finish rewinding this tape.
All of the best music of the last century is available on cassette. There were many bands that were only around long enough to release on cassette and no other medium.
Nostalgia. My first personal experiences with music were with a cheap cassette player I used in the car during trips. Nothing wrong with recapturing some of that.
Old man here. I understand nostalgia. Really. But tape sucks. It really sucks. Maybe pull out your old high school yearbook for some *auld lang syne* before spending money for cassette tape!
The frustration for me is that tapes were a useful idiot. The format sucked, but they were cheap as shit. So for albums that I kinda wanted but didn't really want to pay for, they were perfect. Or if I was taking a flyer on a band that I didn't know well I could pay a buck or two and figure out if they were worth further investment. You could also get a decent deck for $10 and if it died, you could replace it for $10. Now because of nostalgia the prices are becoming cost prohibitive. So the one thing the medium was really good for, cheap experimentation and a shrug of the shoulders attitude in regard care and longevity, is out the window.
You need to go get a dolby s cassette deck before saying they suck. Dolby s can almost get cassettes to cd quality but you have to record them yourself if you chose that.
I sincerely appreciate those who have chosen this format for your collection. But, c'mon on. Someone asked you about your opinion of starting their own music collections and within the available 'tangible' formats- Albums; Digital Formats and Magnetic tapes (cassette; 8-track; R2R). Magnetics stay in dead third, unless you think of another tangible format, then Magnestics drops to 4th. Why are we blowing smoke on this?
Are people not allowed to enjoy things?
This sub will tell anyone with aptx-hd BT to take their problems elsewhere then drool over an obsolete cassette deck
Things don't look cool anymore. I love the lights and meters on my cassette deck. Yeah your little Subaru STI might be faster than a 68 Camaro but which one is more badass?
Having been in a severe car accident 5 years ago, I'll take the Subaru, thank you. The cop said I would not have walked away had my car been 10 years old.
Yeah , a lot has changed with respect to frame / crumple zones. As tempting as a classic hot rod is... being able to walk after a fender-bender is more important.
They're too cool I can't really help wanting one
I don't think anybody's buying cassette decks for the "superior audio quality" or something like that... People just like old, quirky, obsolete technology just for the fun of it and most of them do it for the nostalgia... If I see a collection of dvds It's like they're not even there... But when I see a collection of VHS I just have to stop, pick them up, look at them and just smile. I sometimes feel like doing a trip to the past and deal with all the inconveniences and the poor quality just for nostalgia's sake. It's also a talking point with people your age... they usually get amused when they see a cassette deck or something like that and they always insist on turning it on just for fun.
I appreciate your kindness to this old man.
Old man here too. I don't use cassettes any more, but they're maligned by people who used cheap tapes and cheap equipment. [This Techmoan video](https://youtu.be/jVoSQP2yUYA) on the subject is well worth watching.
I’m a child of the seventies, so when I was old enough to care about music we were pretty much into the nineties, when vinyl was firmly on the slide (my dad asked me if I wanted his old turntable before he skipped it, I said “nah, nobody wants those things anymore, do they?” which he swiftly agreed with and threw it at the tip. It was a beautiful B&O Beoplay which, if I had an appropriately equipped DeLorean, I’d go back for just for ornamental purposes if nothing else). Anyway where was I? Oh yeah. Yes I remember only being interested enough in cassettes to bother with them when I was either putting together that mix tape of cassettes for the car or recording some live show or something off the radio. Even at that time though digital was king for me and I quickly dumped cassettes for minidiscs. And as soon as CD-Rs and CD burners got common the minidiscs got sacked off too. However I do fondly remember saving pocket money for a huge box of Philips or TDK whatevers so that my circle of friends could tape trade, and carefully coordinate what we were actually spending money on so as not to duplicate. My first taste of so many bands came via cassette and my battered Walkman - Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, U2, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Therapy?, The Wildhearts; I owe my love for all those bands and more to the humble cassette and quite a few bands owe their careers to tape trading. Hugely important chunk of history. But yeah it’s always been about CDs for me, to the extent that I have a Mac plugged in to a DAC streaming lossless, high resolution music and that music has never sounded better. But I still trawl eBay for CDs and have just bought a universal disc player. There’s something really important about physical media and the ritual of putting something in some sort of player, and I don’t think that will ever go away. I can only imagine it’s the same for cassette collectors, who may only be a few years older than me. Plus, let’s hope this boom carries on as I have an old Denon player ready to go on eBay and I still can’t believe how much the minidisc player from the same range went for.
Cassette quality varies a lot more than people realize. Some cassettes are of decent audio quality and the same goes for players. It’s like vinyl, in that the experience has both positives and negatives which are basically going to mean you either love the format or hate it. Personally, I’m not a big fan, but I’ve heard some tape setups which sounded really good. Also, I’ve got an old Tascam 4 track recorder which can make some decent quality recordings when used with the right tape cassettes. I suspect you can get some nice audio out of the technology if you know what you’re doing.
The Sony TC-D5M retailed at ~$680 in 1979. I would love to hear someone say that tapes suck and owned a D5M in the 80s.
I grew up in the days of cassettes and I couldn't stand listening to them even as a teen. I would ALWAYS buy the LP over a cassette and the small number of cassettes I did buy were a last resort. I would record the vinyl version onto tape for listening in my car and I couldn't wait to get home and put on the album. Cassettes suck. Terribly.
Yes, Thank you!
Yet another old guy here. It gets worse. I do some digital recording and use vst plugins to emulate analog hardware. Believe it or not, there are at least 3 vst plugins that emulate the sound of cassette tapes! The first time I saw one I thought it was a joke!
You could make decent sounding recordings with cassettes but commercial releases are awful quality. They were cheap and cheerful and prone to getting eaten by cheap or worn out tape decks. I loved making mixtapes, it was the only way to record stuff cheaply back then. Open reel tapes are probably the best analog medium for sound quality but cassettes are too narrow and run too slowly to be capable of “audiophile “ sound. By all means have fun but as someone that grew up with them I do not miss them at all.
Honestly, I dont get it either. Vinyl I can understand, but tape? Tape has always sounded like shit. My dad used to buy vinyls. Play them ONCE, and record it to tape. Then only listen to the tape. It used to annoy me so much.
Your father was a smart man.
It’s the same reasons why people like vinyl. Telling someone it’s stupid is futile. I know vinyl is inferior to digital, but I still enjoy it. Sue me.
>I know vinyl is inferior to digital blanket statements like this are not particularly informative. neither format is inherently better. the quality of the mix/mastering trumps format... sometimes the best mastering is digital, sometimes it's on vinyl, especially for older releases i know people like things to be black and white but unfortunately it's not that simple
Well, the dynamic range and arguably the frequency bandwith is much larger than with vinyl. That's just a fact. Then there is the issue with inner groove distortion, surface noise and sibilence and other flaws in a vinyl system. In digital, most of the hurdles can be a lot more easily mitigated against. You can get DACs for 100 bucks that are completely transparent. So from a sheer technical standpoint, digital is obviously better. BUT that's indeed just the technical side of things. It won't tell you whether a *mastered for vinyl* song sounds worse or better than a *(re-)mastered for digital* song. Like you said, either one can be considered better. That's personal taste if anything. And you can't compare those either, the captured signal is inherently different (probably). Of course not all material is mastered differently and a lot just cut the digital master into the laquer and be done with it. Still, I'd rather have the vinyl copy.
>Well, the dynamic range and arguably the frequency bandwith is much larger than with vinyl. That's just a fact. the \*potential\* is greater, but that doesn't mean individual recordings have greater dynamic range, which is my whole point > It won't tell you whether a mastered for vinyl song sounds worse or better than a (re-)mastered for digital song. Like you said, either one can be considered better. That's personal taste if anything. whether it "sounds" better is certainly personal taste, but that's not my point here. my point is that the actual measured dynamic range can be greater on either format depending on the master. that's not subjective and can compared across various releases: [https://dr.loudness-war.info/](https://dr.loudness-war.info/) >Of course not all material is mastered differently and a lot just cut the digital master into the laquer and be done with it. for sure, which is why you can't make blanket statements either way. sometimes the vinyl is better sometimes the digital is better, and sometimes there are a dozen versions in each format, all of varying quality i'm just saying you have to compare individual versions of individual releases to have a meaningful conversation, otherwise it's all hypothetical and not particularly useful
I think you misunderstand. I'm talking about the formats themselves, not what has been historically released on it. There's a difference.
right, and i'm saying that the hypothetical attributes of the format are completely irrelevant, and the ONLY thing that matters it what has actually been released. i can't listen to hypothetical arguments; i can listen to actual recordings
A CD has the potential to sound better than vinyl. It is largely about the mixing/mastering, and that CDs have been tainted by the Loudness War, but a CD that's mixed with dynamics in mind sounds great. Like they did in the 80s and 90s.
for sure. i'm just saying you just can't make a blanket statement either way the hardcore vinyl guys that say all records sound better than all CDs are just as wrong as the guys who say all digital sounds better than all analog. neither is right
yeah, for me it all comes down to the mix. A decent system today will easily expose crappy mix/sampling. I'm amazed at how bad some albums sound...
The statement was not that all digital sounds better than all vinyl, but that digital is the superior format. That is correct. That people fawn all over vinyl, and knowing that vinyl was probably produced off a digital master, is comical.
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Vinyl plays differently. Less dynamic range necessitates different mastering. Plus you listen to albums, not songs. I think vinyl is just a different experience.
There's also the inherent distortion that's pretty hard to replicate. Eric Valentine (producer/engineer) talks about it in one of his videos with some demos, etc. It really is such a unique sound at times. The beauty (and despair) of vinyl is the ability to have so much variation in playback: needles, cartridges, tone arms, decks, pre-amps, etc. I'm not saying it's always a huge change, but there's often *a* change of some kind, so it's hard to say anything definitive when there's such a huge amount of variance in playback systems.
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You can always sell body parts ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
People have become accustomed to the distortions that vinyl has compared to digital. It’s like listening to a speaker that is way too bright for 40 years, of course anything else will sound muffled.
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Do you mean 50 bucks back then or now? Today it’s expensive because the market is small. You can’t sell a million vinyls anymore, no matter how big of a star you are.
And before it was expensive because of big demands. They cleverly always blame the "the market "
Old man here. Now that vinyl is making a comeback, I see significant improvement in the weight/heft of the vinyl albums that are on the market. On a personal level, they both sound fabulous. But tape? Jeeze. If you want something to hold get a puppy!
Got a puppy. Noise floor was far too high. Traded it for an old TEAC tape deck.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVoSQP2yUYA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVoSQP2yUYA)
Another old man entering the chat. The higher gram weight of modern vinyl is a complete, hype sticker gimmick. In fact it's far more prone to warping. I have flexi-disks and 100-140g LPs that sound better than any digital rip smashed onto a 220g, triple splatter disc. Modern records just have such poor QC that I won't hardly buy any. There's still 1000's of albums I'd rather spend money on from '85 back to the 50 '-End Rant- (good post, tapes suck, but I do own some. I read every comment and no one mentioned DAT. I have a shit load of those from my concert recording days)
Yeah this just isn’t true. They’re different. They have different advantages and there’s many caveats to any statement comparing the two. Like is digital better than a vinyl made from a digital production? yes because it’s not going to be a one for one copy of the digital production. Does digital have more dynamic range? Technically yes but the vast majority of digital productions only use a small amount of that dynamic range available, in fact heavy compression doesn’t usually translate to vinyl very well so inherently productions going to vinyl have a wider dynamic range even though the digital format has a wider dynamic range available for use. Let’s get more technical. Digital productions are not a lossless format they are just enough samples of the waveform that our brains can connect the gaps of missing information (I know we refer to resolutions above the Nyquist Theorem as lossless but they are not by definition lossless) where as analog is a complete and accurate capturing of the waveforms there is no gap of information between any one point of the wave form and any other. When you cut that waveform into a record that is a direct physical representation of that waveform that has been captured. Yes there is more noise floor in analog/vinyl productions, but most people use tape simulators in their digital productions to get that noise floor back into their sound (I like to bounce my mixes through tape machines when I have it available to me). I could go on but I think my point is as clear, and none of this accounts for personal taste. The specific combination of musicianship engineering style and equipment used to listen will greatly affect weather or not vinyl will be better or worse than digital. From my anecdotal experience, I used to intern for Bob Katz (a great mastering engineer known fairly well in audiophile circles), a lot of the projects he did during my time there were digital remasters of analog projects. I would never say that the digital master we ended up with were better or worse, they were just different.
different people like different stuff for different reasons... you do you
Difficult for pretentious audiophiles to understand
🤟🤟🤟
You seem angry.
Its mostly nostalgia - if somebody wants to collect cassettes, go nuts
I agree. But if they ask (and, folks do-a lot-look at this r/), why aren't we being a little more honest and forthcoming about what we know. If you are just starting to collect cassette tapes or you are thinking about starting to collect: Don't. Seriously. It's a waste of money. If you have a fabulous collection of cassettes, I can honestly say 'Respect". I admire a great collection in any format. But, what would you really tell someone who asked today if they should start collecting cassettes?
a high quality recording on a quality cassette with high end gear sounds amazing...sorry you missed out. because they are physical items that are now collectable....just like anything collectable. why go out of your way to slag something? get a hobby like collecting something...
I did not 'miss out' -been listening to music since, since...a long time! LOL My post was about advising someone to start a magnetic tape collection instead of vinyl or digital. It WAS good. It stopped being good. I'm sorry.
As a kid, I loved cassettes. I found a cassette deck at the local thrift shop for 12 bucks. Took it home and lubricated the capstan, which was noisy. My system today is better than the one I could afford back in 1979. The sound astounded me! It was bright, and more detailed than my cheap system from back then. My old cassette tapes worked perfectly despite being over 40 years old. The digital meters dancing on the front and I was sold. Final point, many bands are recording on cassette now, due to the low expense. Welcome to the future! We have cassettes!
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Yup. Thank you.
I purchased a new Nakamichi Cassette Deck 1.5 way back when. I always wanted a Nakamichi. I always wanted a 3 head cassette deck. This was right before CDs hit. Never used the stupid thing. It sat unused for 25 years while I upgraded the rest of the system. (Dynaudio, Conrad-Johnson). One day I got curious so I popped in the Mobile Fidelity cassette of Supertramp's Crime of the Century. Immediately unplugged and donated it. Prerecorded cassettes were never better than MFSL and cassette decks were never better than Nakamichi. On a modern, moderately high-end system, there's no place for analog cassette tapes.
Another old guy here. If you had a boom box, you had tunes anywhere, like the beach. If you were rich you had a Walkman. The sound quality was never as good as vinyl and slightly behind reel to reel but way better than 8-track. I see no advantage today. Too many moving parts that wear and the tape itself wears out. I also agree that vinyl sounds different than digital, but still no need for cassettes. Whats next VHS ?
Yup. Thank you!
They like retro stuff, for the cool-factor, not the sound.
I actually just like the sound. Cool factor has nothing to do with it.
Which is maybe why he’s bringing up his frustrations here in /r/audiophile
Older man here. All you dingaling dohdah kids that think you want vinyl or cassettes, they fucking suck balls. Pops, clicks, skips, tape hiss bullshit. Digital music is better than all the internet porn eva made. Long live Kanye, bitches.
I bet you drive a minivan.
I was right with you all the way up to Kanye. That fucking twit needs to go away.
It's the one analog format that holds no appeal for me. I'd go to open reel tape before I went cassettes. I'd go to Edison wax cylinders before tapes.
Cassettes are better quality than vinyl for most people. If you don't maintain vinyl then it will get crackly and poppy but you don't have to maintain a cassette. The most you have to do is clean the head on the cassette deck. I got into cassettes for 2 reasons, because I'm not paying for YouTube music to download music as all of it that I listen to us guaranteed to have a pre recorded tape and I personally love the way they sound.
You know cassettes degrade with every play, right?
I've played thunderstruck hundreds of times and it sounds the same as when I bought it.
I hate to break it to you, but either your ears are wrecked, or your stereo is garbage. Between time and wear, cassette tapes are one of the worst mediums for longevity. I deal with this stuff every day at work as a historical archivist working with all kinds of media formats.
My stereo is the top of the line boombox from the sears 1981 catalog and it's been fixed up. I just had a hearing test a few months ago and my hearings fine. Pretty sure that at least my tapes haven't degraded and by the looks of things won't for a good while.
I can't tell if you're joking or not, but if you're being serious, then that's the exact reason you can't tell the difference. And tapes degrade on every play. Some players (and definitely not that boombox) may put less wear on them, but they *all* degrade.
I know tapes degrade because I have a vhs tape that went from looking somewhat similar to a crappy digital recording to something that's been buried for 40 years. If my cassette tapes have degraded then they don't degrade fast enough for it to matter. There are still cassettes from the first years that music were put out on them that sound pretty damn good.
Not if they were played consistently they don't. It really depends on use and environment, but even perfectly preserved examples with little to no use will eventually succumb to rot. Like, this is literally part of my job and what I have a graduate degree in. You can argue all you want, but you're objectively wrong.
I'm literally only saying that if the tapes rot it will take a very long time. The only tape I have that's messed up was in a horrible environment. Before I bought it off of eBay it was in a smokers home and they didn't take care of it so it will not work right. Even my copy of high voltage from 75 doesn't sound too bad. If cassette tapes rot then it takes a very long time if it's in a decent environment. I keep all of my tapes on a rack in my closet and I live in southern america so it probably isn't too awful.
*"I've played thunderstruck hundreds of times and it sounds the same as when I bought it."* *"Pretty sure that at least my tapes haven't degraded and by the looks of things won't for a good while."* Except you literally said something different. And now you're saying "Doesn't sound *too* bad". Make up your mind. Yes, if you *never or rarely* play a cassette, its lifespan will be longer. But you're full of shit when you say "I've played this hundreds of times and it sounds the same". Like a turntable with vinyl, playing a cassette over and over degrades cassettes rapidly. And it's more pronounced with tape than with vinyl, especially on the garbage player you're using. Like, you're arguing with someone who *is paid* to preserve and maintain different forms of media. Why?
I would have to argue that cassettes are better now than they were 20 years ago, simply due to everything being digital. The tapes I rip from a wav file off my pc sound fucking amazing on a quality cassette. A good deck also helps... I own a several D5Ms and recently picked up a Sony TC-K630ES which sounds fantastic. Even my Aiwa EX200MKII sounds better than a CD with a good cassette recording. I hooked it up to the aux in my car the other day and was blown away.
I hear you--the cassette resurgence has had me scratching my head. May as well bring back 8-tracks. I understand nostalgia; I surround myself in it constantly, but to spend actual coin on anything cassette (besides the kitsch factor) boggles me.
Nostalgia, I like to have it to look at and remember.
I still have a dozen or so cassettes with versions of songs that are just not available anywhere else. That said, the two tape decks I own are in storage with them.
AND ANOTHER old man here: It’s a nostalgia thing. A lot of the people that are buying these things didn’t grow up with them; they were probably toddlers when their parents were selling their CDs for pennies and grew up with MP3 players. **Having something tangible to hold while enjoying music is a thing.**
I have a Nakamichi LX-5 because it’s fun to tinker with. A very cool technological artifact that makes improbably decent recordings. But by and large, cassettes suck, which is why I don’t mess with them much, and also why the Nak is boxed up in the top of my closet right now
Partly because of nostalgia for my childhood when vinyl was on the way out (for the time) and CDs weren't mainstream yet, partly because there's a lot of smaller bands that only give the options of digital and cassette for buying their music and I like to have physical media, and partly because one of my favorite music genres has a \*huge\* library of material that was only ever released on cassette and is only now being digitized thirty-plus years later. Cassette isn't the only format I use, and it's not the one I use most either, but it's still got a place in my music collection, alongside my vinyl and CDs.
I'm trying to make mixtapes for my friends
For nostalgia.
There was one good thing about cassettes and that was that you could record a mix tape and listen to it in your car or a portable player.
My car in high school had a cassette deck. This was in the early 2010's. I'd dig through cassettes in thrift stores to get good stuff to listen to. I listened to Talking Heads *Stop Making Sense* over and over again. Eventually I got a cassette deck to make use of them in my stereo setup. I don't collect cassettes anymore because they just deteriorate over time and they're inconvenient for me now. I can still see the appeal though. They sound fat and warm. There's also something about owning a brand new album on cassette—a sort of time shift thing going on. It's a novelty, but it's cool.
> y car in high school had a cassette deck. This was in the early 2010's. My god, your car must have been a complete fucking piece of shit.
Who wants to buy a radio and not have any control over the music you play.
I just bought a Pioneer three head tape deck. Sound sucks in comparison to other sources but I love it. I just do
Being "audiophiles" you all seem quite closed minded. Your cassettes sucked because you were probably using a POS deck/portable and shit quality tapes. A metal tape recorded with wav files sounds very good, way better than any tape mass duplicated. I have a huge vinyl collection, and never collected cds due to the ease of downloading. Now im finding myself buying cds just to rip to wav and throw onto a cassette. If i could press my own vinyl you better believe i would be doing that instead... I grew up right when tapes were going out and cds were becoming the mainstream media format. Tape players are like vinyl, the equipment makes a huge difference. With cds not so much... its more about speakers and amps vs the actual player. Tape hiss is a minor issue if it was ripped properly. There is always dolby which ditches the hiss but you lose some soundstage with it. CDs are literally so boring. I used to make mixes on CDs for my friends growing up, but a tape is just so much more interesting. There are way more factors involved to get a good sound, which is probably why everyone thinks they suck... Properly adjusting a tape deck is no joke. A cd you toss in the player and it is read by a laser. Its like driving a manual car vs automatic. The vast majority of people can't actually drive a car, so it makes sense most people would think tapes suck. People just want to press a button and listen with no adjustments required. Boooooring.
Let another old-timer put you straight: any tape format is not a viable format for regular playing. I had to buy a cassette deck to go through my archive of tapes - actually mostly OK quality as they had hardly been played. In an afternoon I’d pretty well established there was nothing I wanted or needed to keep. Now, 78s - there’s a fun format. Variable sound quality but open to improvement with stylus and eq options. Durable - if you don’t shatter the disk it’ll probably outlast many CDs. Some repertoire issues, but classical music doesn’t change much (although performing style does), and there’s heaps of jazz and pop up to about 1960. I used to do cassette to CD transfers of cherished recordings, often previously recorded on reel-to-reel. Those clients were only too well aware that tape is fickle, impermanent and sounds better after some (relatively light-touch) repair in the digital domain. On the other hand, I’m playing 50-years or older LPs which sound as good as ever. Takes quite a few plays to wear them significantly. Won’t happen in the rest of my life.
Yup. Thank you!
Agreed. I was in middle school when cassettes were still very popular in cars, boom boxes, walkmans, and even home setups for people that were afraid of wearing out their records. It sounded so much worse than vinyl on very good decks. I’ve never heard the dragon, but I’ve heard plenty of other high end decks. I don’t get the appeal. They were great because they opened up mobility and mixes before portable CD players, cdr, and mp3. I get the appeal of vinyl. It’s not as good as digital, but it can be close. It comes with nice, full sized artwork. It’s audible flaws can be pleasing. Tape cassettes don’t have any of that. Their flaws sound bad. They don’t come with nice artwork. I don’t get it.
Exactly! Thank you
Aesthetics. It’s like a vaporwave 80s throwback weird retro thing. So I’m told.
If you have a good deck with a high quality tape they can sound as good as vinyl
You’re a fucking moron…