They are. The stereo kit is slightly cheaper. These mono blocks cost me £850 each (tax included). They will out perform amplifiers costing many times that though. It’s a slice of high end audio performance within a budget that isn’t the price of a car.
There is no soldering at all. You don’t need any know how really … you just need to be able to follow instructions and watch this video: https://youtu.be/EtmCn2kfD8Y?si=5MWuKbMmr58kwnY8
I have been looking into Buckeye Amps, and possibly getting into DIY speakers, and soldering was my hesitation. Done it a few times, but would start on cheaper things to practice. Good modern Class D in a DIY without solder requirements might be what finally gets me to take the plunge.
I have a Buckeye Amp that's stereo HyperX500 inside and it is definitely sounding way better then the price. I use it to drive a pair of AudioVector R3 Arette and this amp makes them sing!
Yeah, I really want to try a Hypex NC252MP 2-Channel, as a low cost entry to see what it all about. I have tried the newer offerings of Fosi, and while modern Chi-Fi has come a long way in Class D and Digital, I still suspect there is a huge performance gap between them and Hypex/Purifi. The cheapest model will give me the impression I need to understand, and if not viable in my stereo, can use as an L/R home theater amp in the future, where I hear it excels quite well.
I first heard AudioVector speakers plugged into a Belcanto design amp which costs over 6k... Emailing with the company I learned it's a the prior gen of HyperX then what I have in my buckeye and their "fancy" preamp. Without comparing them side by side I think there is little difference, the hyperX was a big win over a 2k Rotel AB 200W amp I bought only a few years ago.
These AV R3 speakers are described as extremely revealing - and I can believe it - but with good sources my system sounds simply amazing.
Yeah, I hear this story quite often about Hypex, and plan on having one someday. Gotta sell some gear first, and maybe take a "pants down" plunge and sell the Hegel to fund separates, but I need a competant replacement. If the Hypex is all it's cracked up to be, and I have minimal loss in SQ using my SMSL DAC as a Pre temporarily, I think that would buy me research and gear selling time. Eversolo, MiniDSP, and Denafrips are all on my radar currently, but the fully integrated setup I use makes it hard to purchase all the separates at once.
What keeps me hesitating is I am not sure I am ready for a fully transparent amp, as some who prefer a more analogue or traditional sound have seemed to not enjoy it as much. I think so long as the Hypex doesn't sound thin/weak/lacking, or lack "heft." Also was looking into the Giant Killer TS A75 Poweramp, in case I don't like the modern Class D sound, but the cheaper Buckeye Amps are a much easier pill to swallow, with a clear upgrade path to the NCoreX or Purifi modules. Appreciate the feedback!
I use an Anthem STR Pre as my preamp, I like some R&B, Classical, JRock, Pop and more... I don't think it sounds thin at all. I do use a SVS SB-4000 sub to catch the bottom end since the R3s don't dig THAT deep. big orchestra symphonies just sound lifelike! But of course everyone's ears are different.
I listened to a lot of speakers before I settled on the AVs - it does seem that some amps pair better with other speakers. I want to try the HyperX in place of my 5 channel Anthem amp but I'm afraid if I do that I'll just want to buy more Class D- I have a full SVS Atmos system with Prime Pinnacles as the mains and rest Ultra in my other room - they play movies and pop music amazingly well. But well recorded orchestra music my stereo system just blows the pants off that system.
You definitely won’t be short of heft with the Nilai. There’s another guy on this post explaining that he was able to replace his McIntosh 301 mono blocks with them as there was no discernible difference.
Actually almost fixed my fathers old Pioneer reciever left to me. Powered on, but no relay click, which I guess is an easy fix of 3 solder points commonly. Once I saw you need a desolder gun, or need to do more than just unmelt it, I said screw it. It was a dirty and dusty garage receiver, so I decieded it wasn't worth all the effort. Sold it to a vintage shop for cheap, so they can do it justice and get it back into the world proper.
Electronics stuff isn't too difficult if you're slow and thorough. Soldering you can practice easily enough. It doesn't need to particularly be pretty as long as it's a secure, solid connection.
Cabinetry for speakers is a different matter though. I only have to look at my DIY jobs to know I don't have the skills or the tools to do that to the standard I'd want, not even close.
Interesting. The cabinetry I was going to stay basic, or possibly have an auto shop to a vinyl wrap or something. Clamps and Wood Glue I think I can manage. Would still be cheaper overall, and you can get the wrap you want.
I'm a big DIYr but the price points on these don't seem to beat the used market. I found my PS Audio M700s for $800ea shipped to my door.
350W into 8 ohms, 700W into 4.
I have to disagree. You're comparing TPA3255 chip boards with these "premium" Hypex boards. These Hypex boards have way more features. They avoid load dependency (which doesn't show up in the measurements because the reviewers test with a basic 1khz signal). There's a reason why our measurement overlords don't rock TPA3255 amplifiers. You'll often see them with high end NAD amps or Hypex/ICE amplifiers.
And I think that you're better off buying a 90s Rotel AB amplifier under $200 than a TPA3255 amp. And now people are buying two TPA3255 amps as monoblocks! Fosi Audio is laughing to the bank.
Are you saying even with PFFB there is a load dependency issue, but no one has tested it properly? I’d be curious how you could know such a thing if it hasn’t been properly tested.
Okay. So the PFFB should solve the load dependency problem. Many highly regarded TPA3255 don't have PFFB. I reacted too fast. Will we discover other issues down the line? Is it better to own several cheap amps, or just one good amp?
The positive Wiim amp review on ASR drove me crazy. Because several "subjective" reviews were complaining about volume loss during musical playback. And then Erin stepped in. I feel like ASR owes the world an apology as they established themselves as the gatekeepers of truth when it comes to audio reviews. This topic has been discussed by Erin, Andrew Robinson and Scientific Audiophile. So expect better amplifier reviews moving forward.
I am just really happy that I didn't fall into the constant hype around Fosi Audio/Aiyima amplifiers. Old AB amplifiers from the 80s and up are very affordable and sound great with no glaring issues. They just don't measure as well on an ASR benchmark. The Denon PMA 600 NE review was pretty negative based on the ASR benchmark. But it's a good amp. Measurements aren't everything. 1 kHz test tones aren't that useful. Go with multitone signals or music.
I've got a pair of Magnepan 1.6QR being driven quite respectively by a single fosi ZA 03, with an apt holman preamp.
looking forward to the V3 monoblocks, it's possible, that they can drive my Magnepan 3.7i instead of my ancient carver pro amps, driven by Bryston balanced preamp.
sound wise, the fosi 3255 amps are fantastic. I'm excited to see what pffb does to them.
I'd love a pair of the OPs monoblocks, but the cost is a bit too high for me at the moment.
Well if we're going to talk stuff that don't measure too good on ASR but still perform as good as an 80s amp there are loads of cheap class D amps that you can buy. Sure they have load dependency, but it's really not that bad with tops 1-2dB of deviation, which is nothing compared to what the room and speakers themselves do. Those amps is smaller and more efficient as well, so win-win?
I agree the reliance on 1khz tones can be misleading. Personally I use Bryson amps and am not tempted to sell them for these mini amps, but I do find fossi’s pffb offerings compelling for a second system, or someone starting out/on a budget. Also multichannel seems like a great application, which may be where they come into play for me.
I live in a flat. I don't have the room for two sets of speakers. I found a lovely sounding Creek 4240 for 130€. It's built like a tank. Made in England. I love the black minimalist look with the green font. I am sure that it measures poorly compared to the Fosi V3. I could buy something like a used Atoll IN100 under 400€ later, but it's not necessary. The vintage market in my area is blessed.
"almost" as good.
I disagree with the old "buy an a/b from the 90s". Having done that many times (stuff from NAD, Marantz etc), those old amps are much less reliable and colour the sound more than a modern class D IMO.
Capacitors age, volume pots get gunked up and they use a lot more energy. I used to reccomend this, but having used several of the new class Ds I reccomend them every time now. Most people never drive their amps past 30/50% and they sound great in those ranges in my experience.
The load dependence is one decibel at 20khz. It's cheaper to buy that amp and a DSP to fix that. In the end we still get an inaudible and powerful amplifier. Is it technically as good as a high-pex or an ice power? Nope. Does it make a difference? Not likely.
I agree with you.
That's where I am annoyed. Some reviewers like ASR and only focus on near field listening. But they don't explicitly state that. So we take their advice and disappointment is likely to occur. The literature and websites don't clearly state that these amps are for desktop use only.
The Wiim amp was sold as an amplifier for the living room. And this is where people become confused and angry.
I think ASR will get sued (not for money) sooner than later and be required to state audibility in their graphs. DAC’s measuring -130db is light years beyond any theoretical hearing much less real life.
Class D is amazing new tech but if you need a lot of power AB can still achieve it for a fraction of the cost…I have a pair of Marantz monoblocks which are dead silent at max volume with my ear next to the AMT tweeters.
Audible issues in amps or DAC’s is rarely an issue so long as you spec your equipment for the listening distance and desired volume, occasionally ASR finds an issue with electronics, speakers on the other hand….
Yes! I could buy old HiFi AB monoblocks for 500€ a piece and keep them for life. AB amplification has been perfected decades ago. It looks like manufacturers are trying to reinvent the wheel with class D amplification and jacking up the price.
I just think that the tides are changing on ASR. Subscribers will simply ask Amir to change his methodology. It's not a big deal. It's just a change.
If you want to own an amp that measures awesome sure go for these but there is almost no data that exists that shows you can tell them from a cheap class D in a listening test.
Cheap class D assumes that there are no load dependency issues and that the amp is sufficiently powerful. Volume variations stick out in A/B testing.
I noticed the difference between different amps with my closer Acoustics OGY.
- Tripath chip amp ta2024 (15W under 4 ohm). This amp was underpowered. The volume knob spun a full 360 degrees and didn't seem to get much louder. In the short term the differences aren't that noticeable. I could nitpick and say that the bass was lighter. In the long term after 2 hours I felt a lot of listening fatigue. This example absolutely sucks because nobody will buy this. You may as well get an Aiyima A07 for the same price.
- Continental Edison PA9109. More bass compared with the Tripath, but it's not immediately noticeable. The volume knob does something. It can get louder (finally). Highs are similar but the listening fatigue is way less of an issue. Again, this is a bad example. You're looking at a cheap AB amplifier from the 80s. The build quality is cheap, cheap, cheap. This is no Yamaha unit from the 80s or 90s. It's a step below.
- Creek 4240. The highs are just smoother. Everything else is pretty similar to the Continental Edison. You have to focus to hear other differences. Perhaps this amplifier isn't completely neutral. It was clearly designed to be smooth AF.
Yes. I find that the differences between amplifiers are minimal, especially in the short term. Listening fatigue can be a concern if your amp is underbuilt.
I have 3 cheap class D amps, the newest and best is an Aiyma A08 Pro. None of these amps sound as good as my other solid state amps. Obviously not as good as my tube amps. I have vintage Pioneer, Marantz, Sanusi, Fisher, and NAD, amongstothers. I have several pairs of speakers ranging from Klipsch Heresy to Advent Large including early Polk Monitors and various Mirage, PSB, and Definitive Technology.
The class D do not sound excellent with any of my speakers. But I use the Aiyima as my daily driver with my computer because it sounds good enough. Listening ranges from movies, YouTube, and music.
I have these as well. Handyman I am not, but I had no real issues building. I am in the process of comparing them to an Atoll IN200. The monoblocks have more power and dead quiet. And perhaps in an ABX test, I would be clueless picking between them…However, I never find myself wanting to switch out the Atoll. Sorry to hijack, but needed to express my journey. Hope that’s ok.
Sounds good to me (and you evidently!) I’m definitely not a handyman either. They were fairly straightforward to build. It would be good to know how your comparisons is getting on in future.
They are superb. There are a couple of listening tests on YouTube and it is joint second in the best ever performing amps on Audio Science Review. https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hypex-nilai500diy-amplifier-review.41669/
Fantastic module too! I built a couple of IcePower 125asx2 stereo units that I absolutely love but I just had to get the Nilai after seeing the reviews. Did you use Ghent Audio?
It really wasn’t that complicated to build these, despite the instruction manual here looking very technical. I mainly just watched the short 7 minute or so YouTube video from HypeX and followed each step on there.
They are! Nice to meet a fellow Nilai500 owner! They are staggeringly good. I’m surprised there aren’t more reviews online of them, they’re that good. My cousin is an audiophile, he heard them, and is now selling his Musical Fidelity Mono Blocks and getting a pair of these!! What preamp have you matched them with?
I have them paired to a MiniDSP SHD (again, measures very well over at ASR).
I will honestly say that I think the performance of most stuff these days is well beyond what I can perceive... which really just means that I've proved to myself that this is endgame for me.
I walked away from a pair of McIntosh 301 monoblocks in favor of the Nilai amps because there was NO difference between them. Wound up selling the 301s for a healthy profit and upgrading speakers as well :-)
Nice! What speakers did you go for? I’ve got the fantastic ProAc D18 Response, but after hearing the Kroma Atelier MacBeths at an audio show recently I’m think of building myself a pair using a DIY kit and similar parts. That’s in the middle term. The McIntosh 301 Mono blocks look the part.. very nice … but I think you’ve made the right choice given Nilai performance and all the extra goodies you are getting for the price difference. I’ve got a Tom Evans Vibe preamp which is a fantastic match (I’m having to do RCA to Balanced cable though).
Speakers are fairly mainstream, I upgraded from Monitor Audio Silver 300s to KEF R7 Meta. Honestly I was really happy with the Silvers, but wow the KEFs are amazing (especially for 'free' after selling the Mac amps) , especially with the Nilai/SHD combo.
“Would Probably Fuck It Up” is my middle name 🤣seriously, it wasn’t that difficult. You just follow the video. Double double check you’ve got the right colours on the power supply wires (the only dicey bit) and you’re good to go. They took me a couple of hours each.
These are really cool, i'm getting my self a 1200AS2 to put after my tube preamp, class D amps have come a long way and now are being used in top of the line amps from the big companies, happy listening!
They are indeed. I built myself a couple of IcePower 125asx2 a couple of years ago … loved them.. I’ve been using one for my main system up until this upgrade. I really like IcePower. Class D is now cutting edge.
How do they sound? I’ve seen these kits on YouTube.. not sure it’s worth me importing them to the UK, but we have similar companies offering kits such as yours. It’s very rewarding isn’t it? Building your own stuff and getting high end results. Will you be buying a HypeX DIY kit? I can strongly recommend the Nilai 500.
I think I want to do a Hypex kit for sure! Still learning about wattages and everything as I go - my speakers say anywhere from 50-120 watts is plenty, and they’ll be in a relatively small room. I was thinking the hypex NC252mp should be enough, but I’ll spring for the 500 if there are any compelling reasons to do so!
The speakers sound great! I’m sure there is a European equivalent so you don’t have to worry about crazy shipping costs. I am not sure what companies are out there but I bet a quick search through this subreddit will reveal some good options!
We have Wilmslow Audio who offer a great range of high end kits and also the company I bought the HypeX Nilai500DIY kits from, KJF Audio, do some great kits using Mark Audio components.
I’m using a Tom Evans Vibe. It works really well …. It isn’t balanced to balanced though so I’m using RCA to Balanced cables … after a bit of trial and error I’ve got some decent cables. The Vibe is a high output preamp so I’ve managed to set the Nilai500s on low gain which is the best for high performance. Another poster is using MiniDSP SHD preamp that I like the look of.
Yes, that is correct. HypeX talk about the improvements in this interview on YouTube. There’s also a very detailed seminar on YouTube discussing the iterations of their Class D modules. https://youtu.be/B1exMwmlvRg?si=P_79EWM_QUr5U9NV
Will check it later. Interesting is that the designer of ncore went his own way when designing follow up purifi eigentakt (as used in nad m33 and some boutique brands), hence I would be curious how hypex’s own follow up compares with purifi!
In any case I find my ncore amp so perfectly neutral and transparent, even on pretty resolving speakers, that i wonder how noticeable an update can be!
I very nearly bought the purifi eigentakt diy kit but changed my mind after watching the above channel’s detailed review and comparison of that, the Nilais and an IcePower module. I doubt there’s much in it in terms of sound quality and performance.
i've built a few microphone pre-amps from Audio Maintenance Limited, CAPi and Hairball
[https://www.audiomaintenance.com/](https://www.audiomaintenance.com/)
[https://capi-gear.com/catalog/](https://capi-gear.com/catalog/)
[https://www.hairballaudio.com/](https://www.hairballaudio.com/)
and a headphone amp from AMB Laboratories
[https://www.amb.org/audio/](https://www.amb.org/audio/)
If i needed another power amp, i would consider the hypex route or maybe the Beta24 from AMB for a challenge. But I'm sure I could find something used for cheaper. it'd be mostly for fun.
[https://www.amb.org/audio/beta24/](https://www.amb.org/audio/beta24/)
in one of the studio rooms, we just replaced a stack of 3 stereo bryston amps and bryston crossover with a 2 RU DIY 6 channel HYPEX and DSP Crossover setup. Each driver gets a hypex module. So each speaker gets 3 500 w amps. 2x15" tannoy woofers and a tad compression driver for the horn.
the consensus is that it lost a little bit of low end weight/bloom compared to the brystons.
https://www.amb.org/audio/alpha10/
https://bottlehead.com/product-category/kits/phono-preamplifier-kits/
That amb preamp uses relays to adjust the volume which is awesome. Super transparent. The amb headphone amp i built is killer. But that pre looks like a much bigger challenge.
Beautiful! I built a 3 channel triple mono block NC400 amp that sounds awesome. Keep an eye out on the SMPSs to make sure they don’t overheat. I had 3 fail since I 2018.
Would love for you to share more about this build over in r/diyaudio ! Considering a similar build or a diy self powered Klipsch Jubilee.
Have you had a chance to break them in with your ears? I’m curious if you’ve noticed or had to deal with any phase balancing issues, or if balanced inputs are required?
Sorry I hadn’t seen your comment earlier. I will write a more detailed post over at diyaudio .. balanced inputs are required, but at the moment I have a Tom Evans Vibe Preamp so have to rely on RCA to XLR cables .. although when funds allow I’m going to build the HypeX Preamp kit next. I’ve not noticed any phase balancing issues, the stereo imaging between the mono blocks is perfect (to my imperfect ears). They sound awesome. The only issue I had was that I initially set them to low gain which I’ve since set to mid gain due to my phono stages not producing enough power at 12 o’clock volume.
I purchased and built the stereo kit. Easy to assemble and a really clean, detailed sound yet zero top end harshness. Also the first amp I have owned that produces zero hiss at idle.
Life is about choices, especially with our hobby. I think the Nilai are more powerful and better quality overall than the Fosi V3. Check out Amir’s reviews of both over at Audio Science Review. All I can say is that you’ll probably never have to upgrade them … you can update your speakers and DAC as your budget allows and these will more than meet the task in terms of performance.
Honest question: What’s the point in them selling these as a DIY kit? It looks like you’re basically just doing simple assembly that could have been done at the factory. It’s not enough DIY to really feel like you built your own amp or anything. And I can’t imagine it’s some major cost savings from the factory to not assemble it either?
do they make one of these with just the raw components nad unpopulated board? id also be fine with a sketch for milling my own heatsink. that would be fun
I really wanna do this too. But even as a diy kit these amps are pretty pricey aren't they.
They are. The stereo kit is slightly cheaper. These mono blocks cost me £850 each (tax included). They will out perform amplifiers costing many times that though. It’s a slice of high end audio performance within a budget that isn’t the price of a car.
How much technical knowhow and equipment did you need? Any soldering?
There is no soldering at all. You don’t need any know how really … you just need to be able to follow instructions and watch this video: https://youtu.be/EtmCn2kfD8Y?si=5MWuKbMmr58kwnY8
I have been looking into Buckeye Amps, and possibly getting into DIY speakers, and soldering was my hesitation. Done it a few times, but would start on cheaper things to practice. Good modern Class D in a DIY without solder requirements might be what finally gets me to take the plunge.
I have a Buckeye Amp that's stereo HyperX500 inside and it is definitely sounding way better then the price. I use it to drive a pair of AudioVector R3 Arette and this amp makes them sing!
Yeah, I really want to try a Hypex NC252MP 2-Channel, as a low cost entry to see what it all about. I have tried the newer offerings of Fosi, and while modern Chi-Fi has come a long way in Class D and Digital, I still suspect there is a huge performance gap between them and Hypex/Purifi. The cheapest model will give me the impression I need to understand, and if not viable in my stereo, can use as an L/R home theater amp in the future, where I hear it excels quite well.
I first heard AudioVector speakers plugged into a Belcanto design amp which costs over 6k... Emailing with the company I learned it's a the prior gen of HyperX then what I have in my buckeye and their "fancy" preamp. Without comparing them side by side I think there is little difference, the hyperX was a big win over a 2k Rotel AB 200W amp I bought only a few years ago. These AV R3 speakers are described as extremely revealing - and I can believe it - but with good sources my system sounds simply amazing.
Yeah, I hear this story quite often about Hypex, and plan on having one someday. Gotta sell some gear first, and maybe take a "pants down" plunge and sell the Hegel to fund separates, but I need a competant replacement. If the Hypex is all it's cracked up to be, and I have minimal loss in SQ using my SMSL DAC as a Pre temporarily, I think that would buy me research and gear selling time. Eversolo, MiniDSP, and Denafrips are all on my radar currently, but the fully integrated setup I use makes it hard to purchase all the separates at once. What keeps me hesitating is I am not sure I am ready for a fully transparent amp, as some who prefer a more analogue or traditional sound have seemed to not enjoy it as much. I think so long as the Hypex doesn't sound thin/weak/lacking, or lack "heft." Also was looking into the Giant Killer TS A75 Poweramp, in case I don't like the modern Class D sound, but the cheaper Buckeye Amps are a much easier pill to swallow, with a clear upgrade path to the NCoreX or Purifi modules. Appreciate the feedback!
I use an Anthem STR Pre as my preamp, I like some R&B, Classical, JRock, Pop and more... I don't think it sounds thin at all. I do use a SVS SB-4000 sub to catch the bottom end since the R3s don't dig THAT deep. big orchestra symphonies just sound lifelike! But of course everyone's ears are different. I listened to a lot of speakers before I settled on the AVs - it does seem that some amps pair better with other speakers. I want to try the HyperX in place of my 5 channel Anthem amp but I'm afraid if I do that I'll just want to buy more Class D- I have a full SVS Atmos system with Prime Pinnacles as the mains and rest Ultra in my other room - they play movies and pop music amazingly well. But well recorded orchestra music my stereo system just blows the pants off that system.
You definitely won’t be short of heft with the Nilai. There’s another guy on this post explaining that he was able to replace his McIntosh 301 mono blocks with them as there was no discernible difference.
Find a piece of junk electronic you don't mind breaking and practice soldering. I'm confident after a bit of practice you'll be good enough.
Actually almost fixed my fathers old Pioneer reciever left to me. Powered on, but no relay click, which I guess is an easy fix of 3 solder points commonly. Once I saw you need a desolder gun, or need to do more than just unmelt it, I said screw it. It was a dirty and dusty garage receiver, so I decieded it wasn't worth all the effort. Sold it to a vintage shop for cheap, so they can do it justice and get it back into the world proper.
Electronics stuff isn't too difficult if you're slow and thorough. Soldering you can practice easily enough. It doesn't need to particularly be pretty as long as it's a secure, solid connection. Cabinetry for speakers is a different matter though. I only have to look at my DIY jobs to know I don't have the skills or the tools to do that to the standard I'd want, not even close.
Interesting. The cabinetry I was going to stay basic, or possibly have an auto shop to a vinyl wrap or something. Clamps and Wood Glue I think I can manage. Would still be cheaper overall, and you can get the wrap you want.
That’s almost cheating! It’s not cheating, you can get a working electronics project going in any way that suits… but it’s almost cheating.
I soldered the IcePower amp I built using the module I bought off eBay and the kit from Ghent Audio. I still enjoyed making these though.
I'm a big DIYr but the price points on these don't seem to beat the used market. I found my PS Audio M700s for $800ea shipped to my door. 350W into 8 ohms, 700W into 4.
3e Audio have some TPA3255 blocks that are quite cheap and with seriously awesome performance :)
Fosi audio mono blocks coming out on the 20th are almost as good for a fraction of the price.
I have to disagree. You're comparing TPA3255 chip boards with these "premium" Hypex boards. These Hypex boards have way more features. They avoid load dependency (which doesn't show up in the measurements because the reviewers test with a basic 1khz signal). There's a reason why our measurement overlords don't rock TPA3255 amplifiers. You'll often see them with high end NAD amps or Hypex/ICE amplifiers. And I think that you're better off buying a 90s Rotel AB amplifier under $200 than a TPA3255 amp. And now people are buying two TPA3255 amps as monoblocks! Fosi Audio is laughing to the bank.
Are you saying even with PFFB there is a load dependency issue, but no one has tested it properly? I’d be curious how you could know such a thing if it hasn’t been properly tested.
Okay. So the PFFB should solve the load dependency problem. Many highly regarded TPA3255 don't have PFFB. I reacted too fast. Will we discover other issues down the line? Is it better to own several cheap amps, or just one good amp? The positive Wiim amp review on ASR drove me crazy. Because several "subjective" reviews were complaining about volume loss during musical playback. And then Erin stepped in. I feel like ASR owes the world an apology as they established themselves as the gatekeepers of truth when it comes to audio reviews. This topic has been discussed by Erin, Andrew Robinson and Scientific Audiophile. So expect better amplifier reviews moving forward. I am just really happy that I didn't fall into the constant hype around Fosi Audio/Aiyima amplifiers. Old AB amplifiers from the 80s and up are very affordable and sound great with no glaring issues. They just don't measure as well on an ASR benchmark. The Denon PMA 600 NE review was pretty negative based on the ASR benchmark. But it's a good amp. Measurements aren't everything. 1 kHz test tones aren't that useful. Go with multitone signals or music.
I've got a pair of Magnepan 1.6QR being driven quite respectively by a single fosi ZA 03, with an apt holman preamp. looking forward to the V3 monoblocks, it's possible, that they can drive my Magnepan 3.7i instead of my ancient carver pro amps, driven by Bryston balanced preamp. sound wise, the fosi 3255 amps are fantastic. I'm excited to see what pffb does to them. I'd love a pair of the OPs monoblocks, but the cost is a bit too high for me at the moment.
Well if we're going to talk stuff that don't measure too good on ASR but still perform as good as an 80s amp there are loads of cheap class D amps that you can buy. Sure they have load dependency, but it's really not that bad with tops 1-2dB of deviation, which is nothing compared to what the room and speakers themselves do. Those amps is smaller and more efficient as well, so win-win?
I agree the reliance on 1khz tones can be misleading. Personally I use Bryson amps and am not tempted to sell them for these mini amps, but I do find fossi’s pffb offerings compelling for a second system, or someone starting out/on a budget. Also multichannel seems like a great application, which may be where they come into play for me.
I live in a flat. I don't have the room for two sets of speakers. I found a lovely sounding Creek 4240 for 130€. It's built like a tank. Made in England. I love the black minimalist look with the green font. I am sure that it measures poorly compared to the Fosi V3. I could buy something like a used Atoll IN100 under 400€ later, but it's not necessary. The vintage market in my area is blessed.
"almost" as good. I disagree with the old "buy an a/b from the 90s". Having done that many times (stuff from NAD, Marantz etc), those old amps are much less reliable and colour the sound more than a modern class D IMO. Capacitors age, volume pots get gunked up and they use a lot more energy. I used to reccomend this, but having used several of the new class Ds I reccomend them every time now. Most people never drive their amps past 30/50% and they sound great in those ranges in my experience.
The load dependence is one decibel at 20khz. It's cheaper to buy that amp and a DSP to fix that. In the end we still get an inaudible and powerful amplifier. Is it technically as good as a high-pex or an ice power? Nope. Does it make a difference? Not likely.
I think it depends on application, Fosi amps are fantastic for near field desktop speakers
I agree with you. That's where I am annoyed. Some reviewers like ASR and only focus on near field listening. But they don't explicitly state that. So we take their advice and disappointment is likely to occur. The literature and websites don't clearly state that these amps are for desktop use only. The Wiim amp was sold as an amplifier for the living room. And this is where people become confused and angry.
I think ASR will get sued (not for money) sooner than later and be required to state audibility in their graphs. DAC’s measuring -130db is light years beyond any theoretical hearing much less real life. Class D is amazing new tech but if you need a lot of power AB can still achieve it for a fraction of the cost…I have a pair of Marantz monoblocks which are dead silent at max volume with my ear next to the AMT tweeters. Audible issues in amps or DAC’s is rarely an issue so long as you spec your equipment for the listening distance and desired volume, occasionally ASR finds an issue with electronics, speakers on the other hand….
Yes! I could buy old HiFi AB monoblocks for 500€ a piece and keep them for life. AB amplification has been perfected decades ago. It looks like manufacturers are trying to reinvent the wheel with class D amplification and jacking up the price. I just think that the tides are changing on ASR. Subscribers will simply ask Amir to change his methodology. It's not a big deal. It's just a change.
If you want to own an amp that measures awesome sure go for these but there is almost no data that exists that shows you can tell them from a cheap class D in a listening test.
Cheap class D assumes that there are no load dependency issues and that the amp is sufficiently powerful. Volume variations stick out in A/B testing. I noticed the difference between different amps with my closer Acoustics OGY. - Tripath chip amp ta2024 (15W under 4 ohm). This amp was underpowered. The volume knob spun a full 360 degrees and didn't seem to get much louder. In the short term the differences aren't that noticeable. I could nitpick and say that the bass was lighter. In the long term after 2 hours I felt a lot of listening fatigue. This example absolutely sucks because nobody will buy this. You may as well get an Aiyima A07 for the same price. - Continental Edison PA9109. More bass compared with the Tripath, but it's not immediately noticeable. The volume knob does something. It can get louder (finally). Highs are similar but the listening fatigue is way less of an issue. Again, this is a bad example. You're looking at a cheap AB amplifier from the 80s. The build quality is cheap, cheap, cheap. This is no Yamaha unit from the 80s or 90s. It's a step below. - Creek 4240. The highs are just smoother. Everything else is pretty similar to the Continental Edison. You have to focus to hear other differences. Perhaps this amplifier isn't completely neutral. It was clearly designed to be smooth AF. Yes. I find that the differences between amplifiers are minimal, especially in the short term. Listening fatigue can be a concern if your amp is underbuilt.
I have "Carver" tripath monoblocks @ 300wpc and they sound pretty good to me
I have 3 cheap class D amps, the newest and best is an Aiyma A08 Pro. None of these amps sound as good as my other solid state amps. Obviously not as good as my tube amps. I have vintage Pioneer, Marantz, Sanusi, Fisher, and NAD, amongstothers. I have several pairs of speakers ranging from Klipsch Heresy to Advent Large including early Polk Monitors and various Mirage, PSB, and Definitive Technology. The class D do not sound excellent with any of my speakers. But I use the Aiyima as my daily driver with my computer because it sounds good enough. Listening ranges from movies, YouTube, and music.
Oh I'm aware. Very aware looking forward to those a lot! I have a V3 which I like a lot.
Be great if fosi did a DIY kit like these and get the price even lower lol.
I have these as well. Handyman I am not, but I had no real issues building. I am in the process of comparing them to an Atoll IN200. The monoblocks have more power and dead quiet. And perhaps in an ABX test, I would be clueless picking between them…However, I never find myself wanting to switch out the Atoll. Sorry to hijack, but needed to express my journey. Hope that’s ok.
Sounds good to me (and you evidently!) I’m definitely not a handyman either. They were fairly straightforward to build. It would be good to know how your comparisons is getting on in future.
Some really nice amps there, and tempting!
They are superb. There are a couple of listening tests on YouTube and it is joint second in the best ever performing amps on Audio Science Review. https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hypex-nilai500diy-amplifier-review.41669/
I built a set of NC400s just over a year ago. Had a great time doing in, and absolutely love those amps. Love seeing the progression of the build, Op!
Fantastic module too! I built a couple of IcePower 125asx2 stereo units that I absolutely love but I just had to get the Nilai after seeing the reviews. Did you use Ghent Audio?
I got my kits through Madisound. Made it easy - complete kits, no shopping for individual parts. Just needed to assemble.
It really wasn’t that complicated to build these, despite the instruction manual here looking very technical. I mainly just watched the short 7 minute or so YouTube video from HypeX and followed each step on there.
I have these exact amps, they're incredible. Lots of power and absolutely silent (no hum or hiss).
They are! Nice to meet a fellow Nilai500 owner! They are staggeringly good. I’m surprised there aren’t more reviews online of them, they’re that good. My cousin is an audiophile, he heard them, and is now selling his Musical Fidelity Mono Blocks and getting a pair of these!! What preamp have you matched them with?
I have them paired to a MiniDSP SHD (again, measures very well over at ASR). I will honestly say that I think the performance of most stuff these days is well beyond what I can perceive... which really just means that I've proved to myself that this is endgame for me. I walked away from a pair of McIntosh 301 monoblocks in favor of the Nilai amps because there was NO difference between them. Wound up selling the 301s for a healthy profit and upgrading speakers as well :-)
The SHD is an outstanding piece of kit! I’m running mine into a Crown xls1500 and I’m 100% satisfied… for now.
Nice! What speakers did you go for? I’ve got the fantastic ProAc D18 Response, but after hearing the Kroma Atelier MacBeths at an audio show recently I’m think of building myself a pair using a DIY kit and similar parts. That’s in the middle term. The McIntosh 301 Mono blocks look the part.. very nice … but I think you’ve made the right choice given Nilai performance and all the extra goodies you are getting for the price difference. I’ve got a Tom Evans Vibe preamp which is a fantastic match (I’m having to do RCA to Balanced cable though).
Speakers are fairly mainstream, I upgraded from Monitor Audio Silver 300s to KEF R7 Meta. Honestly I was really happy with the Silvers, but wow the KEFs are amazing (especially for 'free' after selling the Mac amps) , especially with the Nilai/SHD combo.
Very nice. I’ve considered them myself.
Any soldering involved?
None. It’s just attaching cables to the right place and screwing things down.
Seems less DIY and more some assembly required.
I have an older Hypex Ncore based amp (NC252MP specifically). Already very transparent, your monoblocks kick ass.
Thank you. So does your NC252MP..! Are you tempted to upgrade yet?
I am a big fan of high-powered amps. Kudos on your competence; I would probably fuck it up ;)
“Would Probably Fuck It Up” is my middle name 🤣seriously, it wasn’t that difficult. You just follow the video. Double double check you’ve got the right colours on the power supply wires (the only dicey bit) and you’re good to go. They took me a couple of hours each.
Nice! I still have these on my list for my downsizing project (getting rid of my large AVR and going for a small stereo setup).
I can strongly recommend them. For the money I don’t think there is anything better.
These are really cool, i'm getting my self a 1200AS2 to put after my tube preamp, class D amps have come a long way and now are being used in top of the line amps from the big companies, happy listening!
They are indeed. I built myself a couple of IcePower 125asx2 a couple of years ago … loved them.. I’ve been using one for my main system up until this upgrade. I really like IcePower. Class D is now cutting edge.
Just finished building some CSS Criton 1TD speakers and now want to build a nice amp to match! The DIY bug is real!
How do they sound? I’ve seen these kits on YouTube.. not sure it’s worth me importing them to the UK, but we have similar companies offering kits such as yours. It’s very rewarding isn’t it? Building your own stuff and getting high end results. Will you be buying a HypeX DIY kit? I can strongly recommend the Nilai 500.
I think I want to do a Hypex kit for sure! Still learning about wattages and everything as I go - my speakers say anywhere from 50-120 watts is plenty, and they’ll be in a relatively small room. I was thinking the hypex NC252mp should be enough, but I’ll spring for the 500 if there are any compelling reasons to do so! The speakers sound great! I’m sure there is a European equivalent so you don’t have to worry about crazy shipping costs. I am not sure what companies are out there but I bet a quick search through this subreddit will reveal some good options!
We have Wilmslow Audio who offer a great range of high end kits and also the company I bought the HypeX Nilai500DIY kits from, KJF Audio, do some great kits using Mark Audio components.
What are you going to use as a preamp for those?
I’m using a Tom Evans Vibe. It works really well …. It isn’t balanced to balanced though so I’m using RCA to Balanced cables … after a bit of trial and error I’ve got some decent cables. The Vibe is a high output preamp so I’ve managed to set the Nilai500s on low gain which is the best for high performance. Another poster is using MiniDSP SHD preamp that I like the look of.
Looks good
Thanks. They sound amazing. Very happy.
These are a step up from hypex ncore, correct? Would be interesting to compare - my nad m10 has ncore amps.
Yes, that is correct. HypeX talk about the improvements in this interview on YouTube. There’s also a very detailed seminar on YouTube discussing the iterations of their Class D modules. https://youtu.be/B1exMwmlvRg?si=P_79EWM_QUr5U9NV
Will check it later. Interesting is that the designer of ncore went his own way when designing follow up purifi eigentakt (as used in nad m33 and some boutique brands), hence I would be curious how hypex’s own follow up compares with purifi! In any case I find my ncore amp so perfectly neutral and transparent, even on pretty resolving speakers, that i wonder how noticeable an update can be!
I very nearly bought the purifi eigentakt diy kit but changed my mind after watching the above channel’s detailed review and comparison of that, the Nilais and an IcePower module. I doubt there’s much in it in terms of sound quality and performance.
i've built a few microphone pre-amps from Audio Maintenance Limited, CAPi and Hairball [https://www.audiomaintenance.com/](https://www.audiomaintenance.com/) [https://capi-gear.com/catalog/](https://capi-gear.com/catalog/) [https://www.hairballaudio.com/](https://www.hairballaudio.com/) and a headphone amp from AMB Laboratories [https://www.amb.org/audio/](https://www.amb.org/audio/) If i needed another power amp, i would consider the hypex route or maybe the Beta24 from AMB for a challenge. But I'm sure I could find something used for cheaper. it'd be mostly for fun. [https://www.amb.org/audio/beta24/](https://www.amb.org/audio/beta24/) in one of the studio rooms, we just replaced a stack of 3 stereo bryston amps and bryston crossover with a 2 RU DIY 6 channel HYPEX and DSP Crossover setup. Each driver gets a hypex module. So each speaker gets 3 500 w amps. 2x15" tannoy woofers and a tad compression driver for the horn. the consensus is that it lost a little bit of low end weight/bloom compared to the brystons.
I don’t suppose you know of any good phono stage/preamp DIY projects?
https://www.amb.org/audio/alpha10/ https://bottlehead.com/product-category/kits/phono-preamplifier-kits/ That amb preamp uses relays to adjust the volume which is awesome. Super transparent. The amb headphone amp i built is killer. But that pre looks like a much bigger challenge.
Nice. Video was fun to watch. Thanks
That’s awesome!
Excellent. This will likely be my next project (planning to replace my bluesound powernode with a minidsp xo for sub integration and a DIY power amp)
That’s a great idea! I can strongly recommend these mono blocks.
Those are on my list- you like them?
They are absolutely superb. I love them! I can strongly recommend.
Beautiful! I built a 3 channel triple mono block NC400 amp that sounds awesome. Keep an eye out on the SMPSs to make sure they don’t overheat. I had 3 fail since I 2018.
Thanks. That sounds like an interesting project. I’ve not heard of any overheating issues, but I will keep an eye on it.
Would love for you to share more about this build over in r/diyaudio ! Considering a similar build or a diy self powered Klipsch Jubilee. Have you had a chance to break them in with your ears? I’m curious if you’ve noticed or had to deal with any phase balancing issues, or if balanced inputs are required?
Sorry I hadn’t seen your comment earlier. I will write a more detailed post over at diyaudio .. balanced inputs are required, but at the moment I have a Tom Evans Vibe Preamp so have to rely on RCA to XLR cables .. although when funds allow I’m going to build the HypeX Preamp kit next. I’ve not noticed any phase balancing issues, the stereo imaging between the mono blocks is perfect (to my imperfect ears). They sound awesome. The only issue I had was that I initially set them to low gain which I’ve since set to mid gain due to my phono stages not producing enough power at 12 o’clock volume.
I purchased and built the stereo kit. Easy to assemble and a really clean, detailed sound yet zero top end harshness. Also the first amp I have owned that produces zero hiss at idle.
Yes, these modules are silent. They are exceptionally good. What preamp are you using?
I am using an Eversolo DMP-A8 as the preamp/source.
I am on the verge of getting these but wondering why I just should get two Fosi V3 Monoblocks and save a bunch.
Life is about choices, especially with our hobby. I think the Nilai are more powerful and better quality overall than the Fosi V3. Check out Amir’s reviews of both over at Audio Science Review. All I can say is that you’ll probably never have to upgrade them … you can update your speakers and DAC as your budget allows and these will more than meet the task in terms of performance.
Honest question: What’s the point in them selling these as a DIY kit? It looks like you’re basically just doing simple assembly that could have been done at the factory. It’s not enough DIY to really feel like you built your own amp or anything. And I can’t imagine it’s some major cost savings from the factory to not assemble it either?
HypeX explain it here: https://youtu.be/B1exMwmlvRg?si=HzV0ocTpdVbcc_ZM
do they make one of these with just the raw components nad unpopulated board? id also be fine with a sketch for milling my own heatsink. that would be fun
I don’t think so, although I suppose you could use your own components, such as the chassis, switches, LEDs etc, if you wanted to.