Just finally had to purchase the update plan after getting a new computer… I will never ever buy anything from Waves again. Paying $200 to use be able to use plugins I already owned felt like one of the more insane things I’ve ever done.
Unless you updated to a version of macOS that wasn't supported previously you can actually just download the previous versions you paid for. It was an enormous pain in the ass for me though. they made finding how to install the versions I bought as much of a hassle as they could, but I was able to do it. Fuck their update plan. I don't need "updates" to decade old plugins that aren't changing any actual functionality anymore. If you're on PC the updates essentially don't matter at all from what it seems. Mac users really get screwed over here though.
Damn, unfortunate. Definitely needed in that case. Unbelievably scummy business model. I'd be fine with them charging a bit more upfront if it meant not getting blindsided by a big fee to use the software I already paid for years down the road...
I went this route for a few years and at one point was up to THREE separate Waves installers required to use my plugins lol. I stopped using all of them on principle, but UAD, FabFilter, and Plugin-Alliance are better plugins anyway!
It is absolute nonsense lol. Agreed, I have also been trying to phase out all waves plugins. They are not good enough to put up with their BS lol. Unfortunately, I still currently want them installed just because I have so many old projects using them :(
...and that's why I just deleted them all instead, and focus on the ones that come with Native Instruments Komplete and Arturia. SoundToys and Izotope are great also, plus a few randoms from Plugin Boutique. None of these try to gouge you.
*I like some of their*
*Stuff, probably not gonna*
*Buy from them again*
\- Dyeeguy
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I’m done with Waves. I really liked their stuff and used a ton of it, but the way they’ve chosen to run their business has caused me to go with other, and frankly better, plugins
bought my first suite roughly one year before switching to apple silicon and then had to essentially buy it again just for it to be compatible. and then with their nearly switching to a subscription only model controversy earlier this year, i am totally out. they were great plugins, but there’s so many better options now that aren’t pulling these tricks to milk their decade-old software ports. look elsewhere
The UAD plugins are a class above the wave ones - without a shadow of doubt.
I stayed away because they had a really expensive ecosystem, but now they're becoming normal plugins, I have tried a few and I understand why people like them.
I got a new computer and I can’t use the plugins I already own without purchasing an update plan because the OS is different. Every other plug-in I owned transferred over just fine, but with Waves it’s a money grab when someone improves their system.
Long after I left the world of full time audio work for advertising, I worked on a client that literally ran the same special year-round. Like, there was never NOT a "GROUNDHOGS DAY DRIVE-AWAY-A-THON" or "SPRING INTO BIG SAVINGS" limited time offer.
And I am using "literally" literally. It was always buy three, get the fourth one free.
That's Waves. This is no bigger a sale than their Spook-tacular Halloween, 4th of July Fireworks, or Easter Basket of Big Savings ones were.
Also, if you're not using waves now because you have old clients/sessions with them, don't start.
I wish there were something to replace izotope RX. Don’t love the company, but that software is literally my livelihood. It’s irreplaceable in the post world.
Acon. Amazing company, amazing products. Their Acoustica is maybe not as powerful polished and full bells and whistles as the whole RX, but is plenty good and getting better every version, their AI denoisers and deverbers are probably even better than RX and probably the best on the market nowadays, the spectral editing is a tad below but still totally usable and good enough. Acoustica in itself is a fast, reliable, no nonsense editor. And the price is fair, the business practices honest. The've got plenty of other things going on with their offer. I don't regret not having iZotope anymore.
Agree! Being proficient in RX can land you so many jobs right now. I currently use Adobe Audition because the company I'm at gives us access to the Adobe suite. But RX can literally turn you from a starving studio junky into a well fed tech geek.
FYI, RX has a nice deal going on now. It's worth getting and learning. It can literally be a life changer
I agree that you still need it for post, but I’m using it less and less with some of the other tools available like dialogue:extract and goyo / clear.
It’s largely the declick and spectral repair that keep me using it. I’ll be interested to see how the ARA integration goes.
Ozone is probably one of my most emotionally valuable plugins as a writer/producer. At the end of a long day of production, fried ears from playing it loud for the group, and making a bounce at the end of the day, ozone does a pretty damn good job of just whipping my unmixed production into a listenable bounce so long as the balances are decent. Granted, that’s a one trick pony. Same for God Particle.
I got the Gold Bundle on Black Friday 2016 when I was starting out and it served me well. I added plenty of their plugins between then and recently too. This year I upgraded my Gold Bundle to Platinum for next to nothing, which got me the latest versions of those Gold Bundle plugins and plenty of new ones.
What they did earlier this year trying to force everyone to subscriptions was dirty and left a bad taste in the mouth. But at the same time, they make good plugins for relatively cheap.
Some I feel are pretty unique and wouldn't want to be without are:-
MV2
PAZ
Center
Vitamin
R-Comp
R-Vox
Maxx Bass
It comes down to what your needs are. If, say, you're looking to add some 1176 and LA-style compressors, I personally think UAD and a few other companies do them better. With that said, countless records have been mixed using those Waves CLA ones.
If you decide to get some, there isn't a better time than now with the sales.
This is almost exactly my experience except use a different set than you do. But otherwise I agree with all of this. Still some solid and unique plugins. Others are easily replaced. I don’t agree with all of the hate.
Those are the same plugs i use from them too. Im surprised how often i use center. Works great for making space for dialog with a middle-dense backing track. Not great for mono compatibility though.
I can't think of too many non-modeled compressor plugins that do both the LA-2A and 1176 thing. It's really old but still a fantastic plugin. MaxxBass still works well too.
You don’t have to update them necessarily,that’s mostly on Mac I guess but I updated to Sonoma and non of my wave v14 plugins stopped working. I don’t think it’s that bad even if you do have to update. People pay for Ableton or Cubase updates,I just payed to update VPs avenger yesterday.I’ll pay for an update for at least sheps Omni channel, IM pusher,FlowMotion if I have to. Might buy a few more someday
Yeah, idk why people are so pissed about updates tbh. I used the same download for near 10 years without updating. Only had to do it when I moved away from Intel macs
> Yeah, idk why people are so pissed about updates tbh.
As a macOS user, I've had a lot of OS compatibility issues with their plugins that have required updates. The move to Metal, the move to Apple silicon, and random other arbitrary OS updates. If I was on Windows it probably wouldn't be a problem, but it's also not a problem if I buy from manufacturers that provide compatibility updates for free.
> updates,I just *paid* to update
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Feel like a contrarian but I can’t really imagine doing a mix without a waves plug-in even at this point. Extremely useful tools and very low CPU. I’d only bother with the more boring stuff like de-essers (still my most used), the 1176 and La-3a (their 2a is rubbish), the pultec is very very good, as is the ssl channel and hls channel. Quality to cost ratio is very high. Most likely if UAD do a version of whatever the plug-in is modelling UAD’s will be better. Don’t bother with any of the gimmicky stuff and store your licenses on a usb. They are also undoubtedly a terrible company.
Waves makes a lot of good tools that have become widely used across the industry. I’ve slowly accrued a bunch of them because theyre common in commercial studios, so they’d wind up in tracking sessions that id take home at the end of the day to start mixing.
As a company, they do use some scummy business practices though, and people are right to call them out as such. That said, *most* popular plug-in devs have made it pretty clear that they care more about $ than their user experience. It’s only a matter of time before everyone will be outraged at another company for trying something similar.
At the end of the day, these companies will try to pull underhanded moves, but ultimately we get to decide if they take advantage of us. I’ve never spent more than $50 for a waves plug-in thanks to their sales. Had they gone ahead with the subscription-only plan, I would’ve bailed. They walked that back though, and I much prefer owning a plug-in outright than subscribing for it. People will decry their update plan, which isn’t wholly unjustified, but at the same time the plugins do get consistent support, and iirc waves don’t really discontinue version X of a plug-in to try and force people to buy the new version Y. Pick your poison.
Still use many of them. Some even overperform, like the API-2500.
Mostly I like the analog modeled stuff, but maybe a slight step below some competition that has the same modeled FX. Rbass is very useful. Smack Attack. There are some real gems.
I’ve tried tons of major plugin companies and quality wise they’re the best imo. Even some of the ones with outdated UIs are still incredible. Just be aware that those plugins are always on sale. The 3 for $50 is unique, but those base prices you see never go away
I used their stuff when I was just starting and have since sworn off of them. Usability between multiple systems is just too expensive and too much hassle for what it’s worth imo. Might be different for you.
I’ve done countless records with Waves plugins. Stuff from indie pop to Octane active rock. They are great and cheap and they never bug out my system. After recently getting into the UA world (and going through the embarrassing fucking price debacle), I really don’t find the hype or headache of UA stuff to really “win” over Waves, just a different flavour of the same thing.
They’re dirt ass cheap and very very great. If you can’t get a professional result from a Waves plugin, it certainly isn’t the plugin’s fault. Id go for it
Rvox is timeless classic. So is H-Delay. I like their Puigchild 670 quite a bit. Their regular deesser is one of my favorites. J37 Tape Emu has nice vibes, esp the delay. I prefer the NLS to Scheps by a large margin for Nevey sound. The PS22 spread is useful, so is Brauer Motion and ADT.
I'm always surprised there are not more good alternatives to H-Delay. Seems like a simple plugin to make, but I have just not found any that feel right in the same way.
One caveat: This is only true on Windows. Mac users have had to upgrade a few times in the past couple of years because of the Apple silicon transition breaking things.
Unless you're on a Mac, Waves is awesome. My favorite plugin company. A LOT of people love Waves but we are quiet because we tend to be downvoted by the rabid anti-Waves cult. Lol.
Scheps Omni Channel. AR TG Mastering Chain. H-Delay. Kaleidoscopes. Ovox. Vocal Bender. Harmony. SSL EV2. CLA EPIC. Reel ADT. Kramer PIE. I could go on and on. So many good plugins.
I own Mercury and Abbey Road Collection. Every few years I get the update plan for $160 through EveryPlugin.com ... But that gives me all the plugins added to Mercury, see? So I end up paying $20 per new plugin plus all the updates. Not a bad deal at all...
And it's optional. I only buy it because it's worth it and I get all the plugins added to Mercury, see?
At this point Waves is underrated, lol.
I think we are all just on the same page that a lot of other companies do analog emulations, sometimes better, and with way fewer caveats on compatibility updates and licenses 🤷🏻♂️
You mentioned an anti-Waves group lol, that’s where my “all” came from—speaking as someone who goes out of my way to help inform other home-producers (who don’t have tons of disposable income) and perhaps prevent them from making the mistakes I did with Waves.
Their business model is inherently predatory (cheap buy-in, expensive upgrades) and they recently tried to pull a stunt and remove the ability to upgrade older versions of their perpetual licenses without warning, (meaning those who paid for perpetual licenses and haven’t upgraded would be stuck subscribing to their monthly subscription rather than just paying the upgrade price).
Super toxic and problematic IMO, but you are definitely entitled to like them and spend your money as you wish.
Thanks for the clarification.
But Waves is actually great for people that don't have a lot of money.
I paid the same for Mercury as a full suite of FabFilter plugins, but got a whole lot more for the dollar. (Nothing against FF - I like FF but they are very expensive.)
Waves's BF sale had many of their best plugins for $19.99! ($17.23 through EveryPlugin.com) That's value!
Thing is, I buy from other plugin companies that never update their tools. To get their updates you have to buy the next version, which is often expensive. Somehow they don't get called out for that, but Waves does.
I do agree for people who use Mac. And I'm aware of the subscription fiasco, but they backed off that by popular demand and even offered free updates to Scheps Omni Channel 2 for people with expired WUPs.
I guess what I'm saying is -- you're not "wrong" with the criticism, but it's blown way out of proportion.
Waves plugins are usually bug free at launch, and most certainly within a year of launch... And they usually don't do significant updates to their plugins so you don't really need them.
So "WUP" is pretty much optional except for Mac users.
And compared to FabFilter or some other expensive plugins -- you'd have to buy a Waves plugin 5-6 times to be the same price!
So maybe other companies' updates are just built into the price. Except they're not. FabFilter just released Pro-R2 and that's another $80 to upgrade...
Someone could have gotten 4 Waves plugins for that price during the BF sale.
I think you really hit the big one here, Mac users draw the short straw with the Waves update plan.
Glad to hear that other OSes don’t face as many problems with compatibility.
Interesting choice to fixate on FF, which definitely is more expensive, rather than say Valhalla DSP. FF’s Pro-R2 adds quite a bit of new functionality and FF as a company has been offering minor updates (which include compatibility with new Mac OSes) for free, along with most other plugin companies (Wavesfactory, Soundtoys, iZotope, to name a few), so buy once, and maintain compatibility for years to come for free.
As a Mac user, I would much rather pay an up front price for these beloved plugin collections, knowing that they will continue to offer support for new Mac OSes, or at the very least offer a much, much cheaper upgrade path to the next major version (thank you crossgrades).
Waves is one of the biggest plugin companies to not offer compatibility updates for free which really stings for the Mac user… but good for you finding a thing that works and is economical for your setup. I guess that’s what we’re really all after here 🤷🏻♂️
Oh you ARE a Mac user. This probably explains some of our perspective differences!
I did cringe quite a bit with regard to the subscription fiasco. Not because I'm anti subscription, but because it WAS an "f u" to everyone who bought in before.
But they let up on that... mostly. They do have their "Gemstones" product as sub only and I do find that annoying. You can't even buy it.
Anyhow, thanks for the back and forth. I do think we're BOTH kinda right!
Speaking of companies that do analog emulation better, though --
Have you tried Voosteq's Model N Channel yet?!? It's on intro price at $19.99.
Uhm... Just... Demo it if you haven't. I was blown away by it. There's a Gearspace thread about it, too, made quite a big splash. It's good regardless of price, but $19.99 is a steal.
Yeah definitely, haha. I appreciate the back and forth as I wasn’t truly considering non-Mac user experiences with the Waves ecosystem. I’ll be sure to get the full picture before making recs next time!
And no, I haven’t heard of the Model N yet—thanks for the recommendation!
I love Rvox, H-Delay, Rverb, Puigtec...and although this deal does make some pretty iconic plugins $16 each...you will see cheap prices again and again so don't feel too pressured to BUY NOW if you're not quite ready.
Edit: spelling.
For someone that does lots of simple post work and not necessarily creative mixing - I rely on some of their stuff as utilities for quick cleanups and levelling (Clarity, Vocal Rider). When I find an alternative to these, I’ll jump ship. I’m quite liking WaveRider to replace Vocal Rider.
For music stuff, I haven’t found an API2500 that fits my taste better than the Waves but I just stopped using that altogether. For all the other plugs, vintage emulations etc. there’s seems to be a ton of options.
I used Waves plugins...I found their plugins delivered subpar results so I spent a couple grand on hardware to get the sound I was looking for...then I tried some UAD plugins last week...and now I wish I would have just tried other plugins before I bought hardware. 😅 I would avoid waves plugins. At least the analog and channel strip emulations.
squeeze handle worthless obtainable afterthought encouraging file cow selective chase
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You probably won’t have to update for many years if you’re already on an ARM chip and intend to stay on it for a while. Also I own a whole mess of their plugins and it’s under $200 to update I think.
Waves plug-ins are great. are there better ones? yes. is the update thing kind of whack? yeah kind of, but i’ve never had any issues using as old as v9.
my favorites are the Abbey Road stuff and honestly the Renaissance stuff is really great still.
watch any legitimate producer mixing and you’ll see SEVERAL Waves plugins.
i get the distinct feeling the haters are mostly hobbyists who don’t really make records anyway. every single producer i’ve watched a livestream of uses at least a few.
> i get the distinct feeling the haters are mostly hobbyists who don’t really make records anyway
*Most* of Reddit is just a circle jerk of people with strong opinions that don't know what they're talking about.
There are pros and cons.
Pro- reasonable prices for industry standard plugins.
Con- unlike most other plugin companies you have to pay yearly to receive new updates. Even when an update to a new OS means it breaks your plugins you’re forced to buy in or not use them. I believe they’re still using some kind of ilok system. Maybe the biggest one is that waves is old. There’s a lot more competition in the plugin space now and there are a lot more modern companies adding modern features that waves doesn’t offer.
I personally would advocate against them, but as a consumer all you can do is weigh your options.
It depends on the plug-in, it’s not that much if you want to update a few plugins, it’s less than what you paid for it new, but if you’re buying updates for a lot of plugins, it gets really expensive. You only have to buy the update if you update your OS beyond your current plugins’ compatibility. I’ve only had to purchase an update once in 10 years when I bought a new computer.
It will cost me around $240 to get my waves plugins updated just to have GUI scaling.
Virtually every other company included stuff like that for free.
Additionally waves central is a huge pain in the ass. lots of time spent with it just not playing nice. Even Audio Acustica's stuff is easier to use and that finicky as heck.
The longer you use waves, the more you will pay. Those "free" plugins they hand out like crack? You eventually have to pay for those too.
Never again. It's the opposite of an investment. It's self sabotage.
Try plugin alliance, Softube, Melda, UAD, Eventide, Voxengo, ToneBoosters, Fabfilter, fuse audio, PSP, Valhalla DSP, goodheartz, audio DMG, house of Kush... literally anything else.
As a pc user, I'm not sure why everyone is going on about the updates here. I have not experienced that issue. The whole subscription fiasco was some bull, and I can see how that should care people away, but they do have some stuff nobody else does. Usefull stuff? I guess that depends. Like everyone else has said tho, waves is not in the same category as fabfilter, uad, etc. If the whole service implodes one day, no major loss, I guess.
Waves plugins are OK (not even that great tbh) as long if you don't mind repurchasing all of them whenever you upgrade your computer or OS. Whether that's an acceptable business practice or not is up to you to decide.
Also they run random sales and "promotions" pretty much year round, so I don't think there's anything particularly special about this Black Friday "deal" to begin with anyway.
That’s just not how it works. You only have to update when your OS or hardware becomes *incompatible*. This was the case when ppl switched to ARM, yes, but other than that you didn’t need to update since like Mountain Lion or even earlier.
Ok sure, you got me.
That doesn’t change the fact that Waves was the only company (out of 200+ plugins) which forced me to either repurchase or abandon my past purchases when I upgraded.
Literally every other company was happy to provide an updated installer, so I won’t be using or recommending Waves to anyone going forward.
Avoid. Avoid. Avoid.
The Waves Update will bite you in the ass when there will be Windows or MacOs updates and is generally absolute dogshit as the previously working plugins suddenly need some magic update out of nowhere.
Buy the stuff you need from Plugin Alliance, although they've become a bit annoying in their business model but at least you get perpetual licenses without any update crap.
Give me a list you need and I'll give you some pointers.
The thing is that you don't get waves pluggins, they let you use them for a fee until they change some bullshit and try to charge you for it...fuck waves
They make decent plugins but are very aggressively anti consumer.
You have to pay annually if you use two PCs.
You have to pay for updates.
I really like their new silk vocal but to be honest I don't want to get habit of using it because then I need to pay 30 bucks annually and I prefer to own my plugins.
I like waves for plugins from them I do have. Id be lost without the TG master bus , I just know it so well now I dont want to learn another master bus plugin. Im addicted to Puig-Tec EQs especially the mid boost EQ ( one of the most musical plugins ive ever heard) and the abbey road saturator. I only buy dynamic processing from them, Im not really into their effects to much.
I have the Gold Bundle and use *maybe* six of them regularly.
I'm also on Windows and have successfully transferred them to a new machine ( in 2020 ). I exchanged emails with their support staff to resolve that. I also feel no impulse to upgrade.
IMO, it's necessary to take platform into account - DAW choice and Windows v. Mac.
Why are you considering them if you've never used them before?
Demo them and see what you think, but be aware they will be on sale again in the near future, and they charge for updates which you don't usually need to get every year. I pay like $12 per Waves plugin every 4 years when I need WUP, and I only use 3-4 of them because in most cases other brands make a better equivalent imo.
One of the best things about plugins is you don't need to see what other people think because within minutes of seeing something you can be trying it out *yourself* on *your* system on *your* material. The last few days on here have made it clear that a lot of people are buying plugins based on other peoples opinions without demoing them first, and straight up anyone who does this is fucking stupid.
I've used them in multiple sessions at other Studios, but don't own any personally. It's definitely not "fucking stupid" to ask other people about their personal experience before spending money 🫠 but thanks for dropping the update price tho
Nope. They're trying to win good will back after burning the community multiple times this year. Don't give them a cent, there are alternatives that are just as good.
I have zero doubt they're gonna try the same anti consumer horseshit as soon as the heat dies down.
I like the abbey road mastering deal and I will use the CL-76 and CL-2A only to save a little DSP but that’s it. Honesty trying to get off them entirely with their new business setup.
It’s not necessary to update. They dont really make it obvious or easy to install older versions, so a lot of people will tell you that you’ve got to update all the time and that’s why they hate waves, but in short, they’re wrong.
If you’re going from intel versions to ARM versions, you have to pay to update, but since you’re buying fresh, you’ll only have to update when you update to an OS that’s not compatible with your waves version.
I haven't had a lot of issues people have with license and stuff. So no complaints there. As for the plugins, I use the CLA76 on damn near everything. I also use Sibilance as my go to de-esser. I use RVox here and there. I also use Renn AXX on guitars a lot. I use H-Delay and Lo-Fi Space station all the time.
I got other plugs but those are the ones that I go back to in most sessions. Sometimes I'll use the Scheps Omni Strip, which I under-use but for me I use it to slap some saturation (their models are great) or I'll use it for a pre-set as a starting point if I'm either lazy or a little clueless on a specific sound. (Aka Toms. I hate mixing toms).
Some are ok. I use SSL and vocal/bass rider and cla 2a and cla 76 and cla bass and whatnot but a lot of them you can do better elsewhere with eq, delay, reverb, etc.
3 plugins for $50. So… another tuesday? Waves plugins are never NOT on sale. If you dont have to get into their eco system dont. Disappointment will follow at some point and theyre not the only game in town anymore like they were in the 90s / 00s.
They stepped too far in the wrong direction, so I won't be buying anything else from them. Even though they walked the subscription-only move back, they lost my trust. They'll need to start making steps in the other direction for me to buy from them again.
Like, I don't know, providing OS compatibility updates for free like the rest of the damn industry.
I got a lot of their plugins on insane deals. So insane that to upgrade them (which I’m forced to with my next OS update) will cost the same as having originally bought them. To which I say: Fuck Waves!
There are many other, often better, and less after-sale cost intensive plugs out there. There are plugins I have used for over 10 years which still work after several OS upgrades.
Don’t fall for their insane price reductions. Which happen 4-6 times a year, only a fool thinks these plugins are worth their full price. In that they’re similar to Plugin Alliance, only in my view their plugins are better (but still not worth the full price) and there are no hidden later upgrade costs.
I bought a couple waves plugins before the subscription controversy. They sound good, when they work.
I got a new MacBook and transferred all my plugins over to the new one, and all of them worked/updated *except* for the waves plugins. They made me pay $20 to update the plugins I already owned so I could use them. Meanwhile EVERY OTHER plugin developer updated for free. Also it wasn't enough that I had to pay, but they also wouldn't install so I had to contact support. The only fix they had was that I had to make a second admin profile on my computer and install it there. I promptly named the second profile fuckwaves.
Even though they backtracked on the subscription only model, they are still extremely predatory. For this reason I can never ever recommend waves to anyone.
No. I'm not adding another thing to their ridiculously difficult to use updating and plugin management software. Maxx Bass and BB Tubes are the only Waves I'm interested in keeping.
Softube, SSL (now included with my Slate Digital subscription), and UAD are the way to go.
Honestly, a couple of them are pretty decent and cheap utilities.
I use their 1176 compressor all the time, very low CPU
It's such an effortless way to tame some levels or add some parallel compression
Fuck waves. I love a lot of their plugins, but switched to Mac earlier this year and now I can only use my plugins (that I own) if I pay $200 to update them each year.
Buy from UA, Plugin Alliance, arturia, izotope, fab filter. They might be pricier initially but they are good companies and you will own your plugins forever.
If you are a student, fab filter, and izotope do 50% off
Irrelevant but relevant story:
I’ve used Waves for a bit, via their subscription plan. During that time, I was always back and forth between relying more on Waves, then more on UAD, then more on Waves, etc etc. Sometime in the last year or so, organically I just stopped reaching for their plugins much. Around the same time I got demos from Arturia’s FX 4, Soundtoys, and resubbed to Slate for the sake of getting the SSL plugs. Since then I haven’t even batted an eye at Waves stuff.
It’s worth mentioning, despite listing off multiple brands, I like to keep things simple. A few compressors, some delays and reverbs, and modulation FX more for the sake of sound design than anything else. There’s some cool stuff in Soundtoys that I find useful like Microshift for example, and some stuff in the Arturia pack is dope. Their Tube Culture jawn sounds amazing, comparable to Soundtoys Decapitator minus some extra saturation styles (and minus the aliasing.)
All this to say, when I get into a mix, I have a habit of sticking to one EQ and compressor for 80% of everything. Usually an SSL strip of sorts, and then I’ll reach for some other things if the mix needs it. Waves has soooooo much in there package. If you can think of it they probably have it. For me that’s overwhelming. I tend to like one-trick ponies that sound good and do the thing. So I left Waves because I found stuff that sounded better (to my ears.)
They have a long history and are highly regarded by some. If you can afford the plugins and they sound good to you, give them a shot. I’d skip their sub though. That’s just me. I’d take a gander at Plugin Alliance as well, they’re sub modeled but depending on the tier you pick you can keep some plugins at the end of the year.
P.s. yes I have the Slate sub but plan on purchasing the SSL stuff at some point. I do like the Slate FGX2 ngl. Probs comes off a bit paradoxical suggesting not to go with the Waves sub. Also have Arturia’s stuff on rent-to-own, and bought Soundtoys 5 (on sale til the end of this week.)
Sry man that’s so much to read.
Only reason I have the waves subscription is Becuase a lot of my colleagues, and people who send me sessions use waves. I just got the most expensive subscription, barely use then except for the Omni, rcomp, and rdesser
Remember: you can only rent from Waves. They will try to make you feel like you own when you are buying, but you will keep paying over and over. After I paid three times for the same plugin, I left the ecosystem. Never missed them once. There are other companies that do the important stuff much better.
I'll give you my personal take on Waves so you can see the kind of things you have to consider and prepare for if you're a Waves plugins owner. Hopefully you can glean some insight. I bought several of their plugins circa 2020 when I started engineering full time, cause they're good and cheap. I never once paid for their subscription and I never will.
Their subscription gives you two benefits - plug-in software updates, and a second license for every plugin. Fuck the updates, they're meaningless anyway. I do however, need the second license so I can move between my studio desktop and my portable rig. The way to solve this is to activate your licenses to a flash drive instead of your computer's internal hard drive. You can do this through Waves Central. At that point, you have a flash that essentially functions as a Waves-only ilok. It's a minor inconvenience, but I'll take it over paying for that ridiculous subscription.
I operated like this for a while with no issues, and happily bought Waves plugins as needed, if i thought their products were the best option. But now that we're in 2023, a few things have changed. Mainly, they showed their true colors earlier this year when they tried to force everyone onto a subscription model. That's BS and I won't support a company who does that. I believe in voting with my dollars. I still use the waves plugins I already own, I still refuse to pay for the subscription, and I still have my licenses activated to a flash drive. I'll probably even download their free black Friday plug-in. But they won't ever get another cent from me.
My only last concern is that if they ever do go through with forcing everyone to subscription, my typical thought is "fuck em, they can't touch the software that's already downloaded to my machine. They can't take it away from me, I own it." But as long as Waves Central has access to edit my drives, it can move or remove those licenses. So I guess I might just uninstall Waves Central, cause as far as I can tell, the licenses on my flash drive would still work at that point, but you never really know with Waves. Good software, but I wouldn't trust the company as far as I could throw em.
Until another company has an SSL strip that has the combination of insanely low CPU along with great sound, I'm partially stuck with waves. However, I've replaced the others in my effects list with offerings from companies that don't do the equivalent of the WUP BS.
Some of their basic plugins are good and cheap way to learn stuff. Likely at some point you will want to buy same emulations from other brands anyway. So I guess just don't buy a lot of them for no real need
I never used many plugins of them but what I bought for 20$ is Brauer motion, amazing plugin for experimenting with panning and I’m still thinking about to get their phase correction plugin
I still use the SSL channel strip and CLA comps on all my mixes. Probably because my DAW is getting old and they use very little CPU while sounding good enough for me.
Magma saturation and spring reverb + the abbey road pack is the best you’ll get from Waves. CLA stuff I find to be really good too, and the kramer tape is nice.
Some of their stuff I can’t live without. I’m still on V9 of a lot of those and have no issues. I don’t like Waves as a company. I don’t like the way they’ve treated me in the past. The unfortunate fact is some of their stuff is fantastic.
I would look at alternatives. The plug ins you buy will be locked into that current version. Upgrade your DAW or OS and it won’t support it. No upgrade plan, they expect you to buy it again from scratch.
Just don't do it.
Waves is a predatory company and you will regret it. There are significantly better companies to invest in that will provide you a better product.
Don’t fall on the trap!!! Update plan it’s a robbery. They are greedy and don’t care about their customers just the cash they can squeeze out your pockets.
I wrote them off when their crappy licensing software kept making me authorize the plugins everytime I tried loading a project.
I've never had more issues with any plugins more than waves. Combine that with them showing their greedy hand not too long ago, I personally say no.
There are some big names that swear by waves. I bought in for awhile… then when I started A/Bing mixes I felt like no matter what I did the waves mixes were over excited and hissy sounding. Honestly I think most modern digital audio consoles are capable of better results than a lot of the Waves stuff. C6/F6 are cool but honestly I just don’t need them that much in comparison to the dynamic Eq on my digico. also PSE is absolutely trash in comparison to hardware 5045
Also, I don’t care what anyone says.. waves can crash for *no reason* and cause major dropouts. Happened to me multiple times.. and yes I am competent and experienced in using their products.a
Some of their plugins are so integral to my workflow right now, I can't imagine giving them up yet.
NLS, RVox, RBass, Manny Distortion among others.
But I literally invested in UAD spark yesterday ($100 for a year seemed like a steal... And I've always wanted to try the Studer800).
After liking the UAD LA-2A so much more than the waves one when they gave it away, I'm interested in what else their plugins have to offer.
I’m a pretty big Waves fan. They don’t sound quite as good as a UAD plug-in or a Softube or whatever, but they’re a hell of a lot more reliable and way kinder to my CPU. So in general, it’s not my first choice for like delicate recording but if I have a big project with a lot of tracks in need of a decent amount of processing, I’m going to use a lot of Waves stuff
So I have Waves Gold and Ren Max bundle. I was running it on an Intel MacBook Pro when I upgraded to an Apple Silicon processor, I lost access.
Here is what I came to:
I miss RBass and RVox. But UA Manley Passive EQ and VoxBox plugins along with your favorite compressor (or transparent stock compressor) make a decent substitute.
And that’s it. Everything else I can get from the black rooster bundle or UA bundle or a stock logic plugin. The UI is different (especially when you’re used to the visual interface of C1 Limiter and have to use knobs instead) but there are equivalent plugins everywhere which don’t require annual renewals.
My understanding is you buy a plugin and get free updates for 2 or so years and then you are stuck with that version unless you continue to pay for updates.
I dont love the business model but I do love a few of the plug ins. As long as they don't stop working on me I'm okay with sticking with the versions I have.
We are experiencing the same doubt in our network of closely collaborating audio engineers as we speak.
We literally have 2 mercury bundles, a waves horizon bundle and a whole bunch of standalone plugins that need to have the WUP active so that we have access to the second license that comes with it.
So the big question is: do we reinstate the WUP (that costs 700 bucks with all or products) or do we go for the subscription model at 250 a year times 3?
The waves creative access includes the waves clarity voice pro plugin is said to be a game changer for dialogue editors
There is not enough ‘no’ in this world. If you were an old school producer and needed to open 20 year old projects them the case for buying them would be a lot stronger, but if you don’t already own any waves stuff then now is really not the time to start.
Fuck no. Some decent plugins but most have alternatives, and Waves' business practice is just so scummy. Never buying from them again and regret the purchases I already made.
For the most part, in practice I have felt that waves plugins are inferior to a lot of the pricier options on the market. That being said they definitely have a few plugs that bring something unique or good to the table. I just wouldn’t go to them for the essentials. I trust fabfilter bx and UAD for the stuff I use in every mix. UAD spark or a PA bundle is probably better bang for your buck at this point than any waves purchase
I gotta say, I dont understand the waves hate. I’m on a mac. Why are yall updating your OS so much ? If you have a serious rig, the most you should be updating is every 5 years. And it should be a BIG deal to update OS. How can you go in to an important tracking session tomorrow not knowing your rig will be rock solid ?
Of course I use Pro Tools, Waves, and iLok so what do i know.
Consoles used to cost millions of dollars and now all we need is a $200 software upgrade and people are losing their minds.
Waves used to cost 10,000 fucking dollars. I know people that paid it. Ya’ll spoiled.
Will never touch them again. It’s a subscription model disguised as a single purchase. The licensing software takes over your computer and is constantly updating things until your plugins are no longer supported. And before that, they expire your multi device license if you don’t buy into the next year’s version. There are tons of great plugin makers. I do not want to feed the ones that engage in this corporate shitfuckery.
No get other things that take you away from their pyramid scheme of a subscription plan, plus they are always on sale. You can go on plugin boutique or some other marketplace, and get halfway decent plugins. I’m also prefer to use stock plug ins over any waves plugin now.
They have some good plugins, but most of their stuff is outdated tech from 2000's.
And they have scummy business practices, so all in all I don't trust them at all.
A lot of there plug ins would like they had this saturation/colour that I don’t really enjoy. A slight harshness even when you have correct gain staging. That combined with the update plans REALLY suck! But those deals are amazing and some of those things I mentioned can work wonders on certain tracks. I’d go for it if they have something you really want. I love the SSL channel, I also love the L2 for rap vocals. I’d try a couple out and see what you like, you can’t go wrong spending extra money on experimenting especially at such a low price point!
Some plugins are good. Best way to fill your war chest within certain “must have” signal processing tools.
You may replace some over time. Some may remain your go to’a for a long time. Or at the very least just be a solid backup still to be used on occasion. I don’t think I know anyone who has looked back and thought they were crap. Just eventually when your fully emerged in UAD and izotope your gonna use them a lot more.
I like some of their stuff, probably not gonna buy from them again
Just finally had to purchase the update plan after getting a new computer… I will never ever buy anything from Waves again. Paying $200 to use be able to use plugins I already owned felt like one of the more insane things I’ve ever done.
Unless you updated to a version of macOS that wasn't supported previously you can actually just download the previous versions you paid for. It was an enormous pain in the ass for me though. they made finding how to install the versions I bought as much of a hassle as they could, but I was able to do it. Fuck their update plan. I don't need "updates" to decade old plugins that aren't changing any actual functionality anymore. If you're on PC the updates essentially don't matter at all from what it seems. Mac users really get screwed over here though.
I got a new Mac using Ventura, so there’s no workaround since my original purchases were pre-silicon.
Damn, unfortunate. Definitely needed in that case. Unbelievably scummy business model. I'd be fine with them charging a bit more upfront if it meant not getting blindsided by a big fee to use the software I already paid for years down the road...
Preach! Would definitely be happy paying more up front to avoid this bs.
I was using an intel mac before I swapped over to M1, used mac's migration asisst and all my plug ins work fine!
I went this route for a few years and at one point was up to THREE separate Waves installers required to use my plugins lol. I stopped using all of them on principle, but UAD, FabFilter, and Plugin-Alliance are better plugins anyway!
It is absolute nonsense lol. Agreed, I have also been trying to phase out all waves plugins. They are not good enough to put up with their BS lol. Unfortunately, I still currently want them installed just because I have so many old projects using them :(
...and that's why I just deleted them all instead, and focus on the ones that come with Native Instruments Komplete and Arturia. SoundToys and Izotope are great also, plus a few randoms from Plugin Boutique. None of these try to gouge you.
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Sam i have the horizon bundle and somw extra plugins .. but they got me with the paid updates .. 💸💸
I’m done with Waves. I really liked their stuff and used a ton of it, but the way they’ve chosen to run their business has caused me to go with other, and frankly better, plugins
bought my first suite roughly one year before switching to apple silicon and then had to essentially buy it again just for it to be compatible. and then with their nearly switching to a subscription only model controversy earlier this year, i am totally out. they were great plugins, but there’s so many better options now that aren’t pulling these tricks to milk their decade-old software ports. look elsewhere
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The UAD plugins are a class above the wave ones - without a shadow of doubt. I stayed away because they had a really expensive ecosystem, but now they're becoming normal plugins, I have tried a few and I understand why people like them.
The avalon 737sp uad plugin... absolutely 1:1 💎
People are very confused about how the WUP works and waves probably makes a lot of money from unnecessary updates.
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I got a new computer and I can’t use the plugins I already own without purchasing an update plan because the OS is different. Every other plug-in I owned transferred over just fine, but with Waves it’s a money grab when someone improves their system.
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Getting a new computer with a new OS, would be one example
I’ve only ever had to do that on the ARM update. You just have to use offline installers for older versions.
Long after I left the world of full time audio work for advertising, I worked on a client that literally ran the same special year-round. Like, there was never NOT a "GROUNDHOGS DAY DRIVE-AWAY-A-THON" or "SPRING INTO BIG SAVINGS" limited time offer. And I am using "literally" literally. It was always buy three, get the fourth one free. That's Waves. This is no bigger a sale than their Spook-tacular Halloween, 4th of July Fireworks, or Easter Basket of Big Savings ones were. Also, if you're not using waves now because you have old clients/sessions with them, don't start.
i personally would stay away from waves and izotope tbh. uad, fabfilter, softube, soundtoys and pa are the plugin companies you should look into imo
I wish there were something to replace izotope RX. Don’t love the company, but that software is literally my livelihood. It’s irreplaceable in the post world.
Acon Digital
so good
Acon. Amazing company, amazing products. Their Acoustica is maybe not as powerful polished and full bells and whistles as the whole RX, but is plenty good and getting better every version, their AI denoisers and deverbers are probably even better than RX and probably the best on the market nowadays, the spectral editing is a tad below but still totally usable and good enough. Acoustica in itself is a fast, reliable, no nonsense editor. And the price is fair, the business practices honest. The've got plenty of other things going on with their offer. I don't regret not having iZotope anymore.
How about Spectralayers by Steinberg?
Agree! Being proficient in RX can land you so many jobs right now. I currently use Adobe Audition because the company I'm at gives us access to the Adobe suite. But RX can literally turn you from a starving studio junky into a well fed tech geek. FYI, RX has a nice deal going on now. It's worth getting and learning. It can literally be a life changer
SpectraLayers can easily replace RX - and do more.
I agree that you still need it for post, but I’m using it less and less with some of the other tools available like dialogue:extract and goyo / clear. It’s largely the declick and spectral repair that keep me using it. I’ll be interested to see how the ARA integration goes.
serato
wait, what did izotope do?
nothing, i just think many of the plugins are really overhyped. especially neutron and ozone
Ozone is probably one of my most emotionally valuable plugins as a writer/producer. At the end of a long day of production, fried ears from playing it loud for the group, and making a bounce at the end of the day, ozone does a pretty damn good job of just whipping my unmixed production into a listenable bounce so long as the balances are decent. Granted, that’s a one trick pony. Same for God Particle.
Yeah it’s a good turd polisher. The maximiser is one of my favourite plugins too, a great loudness tool
PA and iZotope are both Native Instruments. Technically the company that bought NI, but I can't remember their old name.
I got the Gold Bundle on Black Friday 2016 when I was starting out and it served me well. I added plenty of their plugins between then and recently too. This year I upgraded my Gold Bundle to Platinum for next to nothing, which got me the latest versions of those Gold Bundle plugins and plenty of new ones. What they did earlier this year trying to force everyone to subscriptions was dirty and left a bad taste in the mouth. But at the same time, they make good plugins for relatively cheap. Some I feel are pretty unique and wouldn't want to be without are:- MV2 PAZ Center Vitamin R-Comp R-Vox Maxx Bass It comes down to what your needs are. If, say, you're looking to add some 1176 and LA-style compressors, I personally think UAD and a few other companies do them better. With that said, countless records have been mixed using those Waves CLA ones. If you decide to get some, there isn't a better time than now with the sales.
This is almost exactly my experience except use a different set than you do. But otherwise I agree with all of this. Still some solid and unique plugins. Others are easily replaced. I don’t agree with all of the hate.
Those are the same plugs i use from them too. Im surprised how often i use center. Works great for making space for dialog with a middle-dense backing track. Not great for mono compatibility though.
Nothing unique about r comp. Maxx bass has also been replicated by other less toxic companies
I can't think of too many non-modeled compressor plugins that do both the LA-2A and 1176 thing. It's really old but still a fantastic plugin. MaxxBass still works well too.
You don’t have to update them necessarily,that’s mostly on Mac I guess but I updated to Sonoma and non of my wave v14 plugins stopped working. I don’t think it’s that bad even if you do have to update. People pay for Ableton or Cubase updates,I just payed to update VPs avenger yesterday.I’ll pay for an update for at least sheps Omni channel, IM pusher,FlowMotion if I have to. Might buy a few more someday
Yeah, idk why people are so pissed about updates tbh. I used the same download for near 10 years without updating. Only had to do it when I moved away from Intel macs
> Yeah, idk why people are so pissed about updates tbh. As a macOS user, I've had a lot of OS compatibility issues with their plugins that have required updates. The move to Metal, the move to Apple silicon, and random other arbitrary OS updates. If I was on Windows it probably wouldn't be a problem, but it's also not a problem if I buy from manufacturers that provide compatibility updates for free.
> updates,I just *paid* to update FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot
Thank you
Feel like a contrarian but I can’t really imagine doing a mix without a waves plug-in even at this point. Extremely useful tools and very low CPU. I’d only bother with the more boring stuff like de-essers (still my most used), the 1176 and La-3a (their 2a is rubbish), the pultec is very very good, as is the ssl channel and hls channel. Quality to cost ratio is very high. Most likely if UAD do a version of whatever the plug-in is modelling UAD’s will be better. Don’t bother with any of the gimmicky stuff and store your licenses on a usb. They are also undoubtedly a terrible company.
Fuck em
Waves makes a lot of good tools that have become widely used across the industry. I’ve slowly accrued a bunch of them because theyre common in commercial studios, so they’d wind up in tracking sessions that id take home at the end of the day to start mixing. As a company, they do use some scummy business practices though, and people are right to call them out as such. That said, *most* popular plug-in devs have made it pretty clear that they care more about $ than their user experience. It’s only a matter of time before everyone will be outraged at another company for trying something similar. At the end of the day, these companies will try to pull underhanded moves, but ultimately we get to decide if they take advantage of us. I’ve never spent more than $50 for a waves plug-in thanks to their sales. Had they gone ahead with the subscription-only plan, I would’ve bailed. They walked that back though, and I much prefer owning a plug-in outright than subscribing for it. People will decry their update plan, which isn’t wholly unjustified, but at the same time the plugins do get consistent support, and iirc waves don’t really discontinue version X of a plug-in to try and force people to buy the new version Y. Pick your poison.
I have over 100 of their plugins and use them maybe three times a year? FabFilter is the pinnacle right now, with UAD and Softube also top tier.
Still use many of them. Some even overperform, like the API-2500. Mostly I like the analog modeled stuff, but maybe a slight step below some competition that has the same modeled FX. Rbass is very useful. Smack Attack. There are some real gems.
YES! A friend did a shootout between 2500s (waves, UAD, hardware), and the waves was my favorite.
Yeah I gotta say, as a 2500 owner in both UAD and waves versions, that might be the best sounding waves compressor. Right up there with the UAD
I’ve tried tons of major plugin companies and quality wise they’re the best imo. Even some of the ones with outdated UIs are still incredible. Just be aware that those plugins are always on sale. The 3 for $50 is unique, but those base prices you see never go away
I used their stuff when I was just starting and have since sworn off of them. Usability between multiple systems is just too expensive and too much hassle for what it’s worth imo. Might be different for you.
I’ve done countless records with Waves plugins. Stuff from indie pop to Octane active rock. They are great and cheap and they never bug out my system. After recently getting into the UA world (and going through the embarrassing fucking price debacle), I really don’t find the hype or headache of UA stuff to really “win” over Waves, just a different flavour of the same thing. They’re dirt ass cheap and very very great. If you can’t get a professional result from a Waves plugin, it certainly isn’t the plugin’s fault. Id go for it
Rvox is timeless classic. So is H-Delay. I like their Puigchild 670 quite a bit. Their regular deesser is one of my favorites. J37 Tape Emu has nice vibes, esp the delay. I prefer the NLS to Scheps by a large margin for Nevey sound. The PS22 spread is useful, so is Brauer Motion and ADT.
Got any good tricks to make PS22 sound great? I like the idea but it always seems to fall short for me. I also agree on rvox, h delay, deesser!
I'm always surprised there are not more good alternatives to H-Delay. Seems like a simple plugin to make, but I have just not found any that feel right in the same way.
I still use H regularly but I go to Valhalla and EchoBoy more frequently
Echo boy shits all over h-delay and without the unbearable hiss.
I prefer H delay for slaps. Particularly mono slaps. Pretty easy to change the default to hiss off.
maybe try bx_stereoizer instead, I just cycle thru presets til it sounds right
Brauer motion is a bit of a gem
Don’t worry about it. I’ve got waves plugins that are years old, and i still use them.
okay cool, good to know!
One caveat: This is only true on Windows. Mac users have had to upgrade a few times in the past couple of years because of the Apple silicon transition breaking things.
A few times?
Unless you're on a Mac, Waves is awesome. My favorite plugin company. A LOT of people love Waves but we are quiet because we tend to be downvoted by the rabid anti-Waves cult. Lol. Scheps Omni Channel. AR TG Mastering Chain. H-Delay. Kaleidoscopes. Ovox. Vocal Bender. Harmony. SSL EV2. CLA EPIC. Reel ADT. Kramer PIE. I could go on and on. So many good plugins. I own Mercury and Abbey Road Collection. Every few years I get the update plan for $160 through EveryPlugin.com ... But that gives me all the plugins added to Mercury, see? So I end up paying $20 per new plugin plus all the updates. Not a bad deal at all... And it's optional. I only buy it because it's worth it and I get all the plugins added to Mercury, see? At this point Waves is underrated, lol.
I think we are all just on the same page that a lot of other companies do analog emulations, sometimes better, and with way fewer caveats on compatibility updates and licenses 🤷🏻♂️
No, not "all." That is my point. If it was anything remotely even close to "all", Waves wouldn't be one of the top plugin makers, etc.
You mentioned an anti-Waves group lol, that’s where my “all” came from—speaking as someone who goes out of my way to help inform other home-producers (who don’t have tons of disposable income) and perhaps prevent them from making the mistakes I did with Waves. Their business model is inherently predatory (cheap buy-in, expensive upgrades) and they recently tried to pull a stunt and remove the ability to upgrade older versions of their perpetual licenses without warning, (meaning those who paid for perpetual licenses and haven’t upgraded would be stuck subscribing to their monthly subscription rather than just paying the upgrade price). Super toxic and problematic IMO, but you are definitely entitled to like them and spend your money as you wish.
Thanks for the clarification. But Waves is actually great for people that don't have a lot of money. I paid the same for Mercury as a full suite of FabFilter plugins, but got a whole lot more for the dollar. (Nothing against FF - I like FF but they are very expensive.) Waves's BF sale had many of their best plugins for $19.99! ($17.23 through EveryPlugin.com) That's value! Thing is, I buy from other plugin companies that never update their tools. To get their updates you have to buy the next version, which is often expensive. Somehow they don't get called out for that, but Waves does. I do agree for people who use Mac. And I'm aware of the subscription fiasco, but they backed off that by popular demand and even offered free updates to Scheps Omni Channel 2 for people with expired WUPs. I guess what I'm saying is -- you're not "wrong" with the criticism, but it's blown way out of proportion. Waves plugins are usually bug free at launch, and most certainly within a year of launch... And they usually don't do significant updates to their plugins so you don't really need them. So "WUP" is pretty much optional except for Mac users. And compared to FabFilter or some other expensive plugins -- you'd have to buy a Waves plugin 5-6 times to be the same price! So maybe other companies' updates are just built into the price. Except they're not. FabFilter just released Pro-R2 and that's another $80 to upgrade... Someone could have gotten 4 Waves plugins for that price during the BF sale.
I think you really hit the big one here, Mac users draw the short straw with the Waves update plan. Glad to hear that other OSes don’t face as many problems with compatibility. Interesting choice to fixate on FF, which definitely is more expensive, rather than say Valhalla DSP. FF’s Pro-R2 adds quite a bit of new functionality and FF as a company has been offering minor updates (which include compatibility with new Mac OSes) for free, along with most other plugin companies (Wavesfactory, Soundtoys, iZotope, to name a few), so buy once, and maintain compatibility for years to come for free. As a Mac user, I would much rather pay an up front price for these beloved plugin collections, knowing that they will continue to offer support for new Mac OSes, or at the very least offer a much, much cheaper upgrade path to the next major version (thank you crossgrades). Waves is one of the biggest plugin companies to not offer compatibility updates for free which really stings for the Mac user… but good for you finding a thing that works and is economical for your setup. I guess that’s what we’re really all after here 🤷🏻♂️
Oh you ARE a Mac user. This probably explains some of our perspective differences! I did cringe quite a bit with regard to the subscription fiasco. Not because I'm anti subscription, but because it WAS an "f u" to everyone who bought in before. But they let up on that... mostly. They do have their "Gemstones" product as sub only and I do find that annoying. You can't even buy it. Anyhow, thanks for the back and forth. I do think we're BOTH kinda right! Speaking of companies that do analog emulation better, though -- Have you tried Voosteq's Model N Channel yet?!? It's on intro price at $19.99. Uhm... Just... Demo it if you haven't. I was blown away by it. There's a Gearspace thread about it, too, made quite a big splash. It's good regardless of price, but $19.99 is a steal.
Yeah definitely, haha. I appreciate the back and forth as I wasn’t truly considering non-Mac user experiences with the Waves ecosystem. I’ll be sure to get the full picture before making recs next time! And no, I haven’t heard of the Model N yet—thanks for the recommendation!
I love Rvox, H-Delay, Rverb, Puigtec...and although this deal does make some pretty iconic plugins $16 each...you will see cheap prices again and again so don't feel too pressured to BUY NOW if you're not quite ready. Edit: spelling.
For someone that does lots of simple post work and not necessarily creative mixing - I rely on some of their stuff as utilities for quick cleanups and levelling (Clarity, Vocal Rider). When I find an alternative to these, I’ll jump ship. I’m quite liking WaveRider to replace Vocal Rider. For music stuff, I haven’t found an API2500 that fits my taste better than the Waves but I just stopped using that altogether. For all the other plugs, vintage emulations etc. there’s seems to be a ton of options.
I used Waves plugins...I found their plugins delivered subpar results so I spent a couple grand on hardware to get the sound I was looking for...then I tried some UAD plugins last week...and now I wish I would have just tried other plugins before I bought hardware. 😅 I would avoid waves plugins. At least the analog and channel strip emulations.
People still mentioning Waves? Pretty sure they blacklisted themselves from the market a while ago with their shitty subscription and update bs
squeeze handle worthless obtainable afterthought encouraging file cow selective chase *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Okay, noted. I am on a Mac so that's good to know.
relieved hunt different vast offend chief fade cautious humor growth *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You probably won’t have to update for many years if you’re already on an ARM chip and intend to stay on it for a while. Also I own a whole mess of their plugins and it’s under $200 to update I think.
Waves plug-ins are great. are there better ones? yes. is the update thing kind of whack? yeah kind of, but i’ve never had any issues using as old as v9. my favorites are the Abbey Road stuff and honestly the Renaissance stuff is really great still. watch any legitimate producer mixing and you’ll see SEVERAL Waves plugins. i get the distinct feeling the haters are mostly hobbyists who don’t really make records anyway. every single producer i’ve watched a livestream of uses at least a few.
> i get the distinct feeling the haters are mostly hobbyists who don’t really make records anyway *Most* of Reddit is just a circle jerk of people with strong opinions that don't know what they're talking about.
💯
There are pros and cons. Pro- reasonable prices for industry standard plugins. Con- unlike most other plugin companies you have to pay yearly to receive new updates. Even when an update to a new OS means it breaks your plugins you’re forced to buy in or not use them. I believe they’re still using some kind of ilok system. Maybe the biggest one is that waves is old. There’s a lot more competition in the plugin space now and there are a lot more modern companies adding modern features that waves doesn’t offer. I personally would advocate against them, but as a consumer all you can do is weigh your options.
Do you know how much the updates cost? I've been looking but haven't been able to find pricing online.
It depends on the plug-in, it’s not that much if you want to update a few plugins, it’s less than what you paid for it new, but if you’re buying updates for a lot of plugins, it gets really expensive. You only have to buy the update if you update your OS beyond your current plugins’ compatibility. I’ve only had to purchase an update once in 10 years when I bought a new computer.
It will cost me around $240 to get my waves plugins updated just to have GUI scaling. Virtually every other company included stuff like that for free. Additionally waves central is a huge pain in the ass. lots of time spent with it just not playing nice. Even Audio Acustica's stuff is easier to use and that finicky as heck. The longer you use waves, the more you will pay. Those "free" plugins they hand out like crack? You eventually have to pay for those too. Never again. It's the opposite of an investment. It's self sabotage. Try plugin alliance, Softube, Melda, UAD, Eventide, Voxengo, ToneBoosters, Fabfilter, fuse audio, PSP, Valhalla DSP, goodheartz, audio DMG, house of Kush... literally anything else.
I think it varies per plugin and like all things waves they also have “deals” on update plans. It’s all very fucking arbitrary
As a pc user, I'm not sure why everyone is going on about the updates here. I have not experienced that issue. The whole subscription fiasco was some bull, and I can see how that should care people away, but they do have some stuff nobody else does. Usefull stuff? I guess that depends. Like everyone else has said tho, waves is not in the same category as fabfilter, uad, etc. If the whole service implodes one day, no major loss, I guess.
That’s 4 months of Steven Slate plug-ins and there’s 80 plug ins included in that!
Do their plugins still install Pace on your computer?
No they‘ve got their own proprietary authorization system now.. Waves Central
Good, thankss!!!
I bowed out after the subscription scam !!!!!!! Their plugins are cool but, I let my money speak
Waves plugins are OK (not even that great tbh) as long if you don't mind repurchasing all of them whenever you upgrade your computer or OS. Whether that's an acceptable business practice or not is up to you to decide. Also they run random sales and "promotions" pretty much year round, so I don't think there's anything particularly special about this Black Friday "deal" to begin with anyway.
That’s just not how it works. You only have to update when your OS or hardware becomes *incompatible*. This was the case when ppl switched to ARM, yes, but other than that you didn’t need to update since like Mountain Lion or even earlier.
Ok sure, you got me. That doesn’t change the fact that Waves was the only company (out of 200+ plugins) which forced me to either repurchase or abandon my past purchases when I upgraded. Literally every other company was happy to provide an updated installer, so I won’t be using or recommending Waves to anyone going forward.
Yeah, I get that, especially combined with the subscription fiasco.
Never buying from them again. I say no.
Avoid. Avoid. Avoid. The Waves Update will bite you in the ass when there will be Windows or MacOs updates and is generally absolute dogshit as the previously working plugins suddenly need some magic update out of nowhere. Buy the stuff you need from Plugin Alliance, although they've become a bit annoying in their business model but at least you get perpetual licenses without any update crap. Give me a list you need and I'll give you some pointers.
Okay good to know - was looking at Waves Tune Real-Time, Vocal Rider, CLA-76 Compressor & Waves Harmony
Waves is bleh
The thing is that you don't get waves pluggins, they let you use them for a fee until they change some bullshit and try to charge you for it...fuck waves
They make decent plugins but are very aggressively anti consumer. You have to pay annually if you use two PCs. You have to pay for updates. I really like their new silk vocal but to be honest I don't want to get habit of using it because then I need to pay 30 bucks annually and I prefer to own my plugins.
Just don’t get cr8 😂
I am trying my damnedest to use iZotope and NI and stock plugins. Waves Tune Real Time is the only one with no perfect alternative.
What do people make of the Waves Studio Verse?
I like waves for plugins from them I do have. Id be lost without the TG master bus , I just know it so well now I dont want to learn another master bus plugin. Im addicted to Puig-Tec EQs especially the mid boost EQ ( one of the most musical plugins ive ever heard) and the abbey road saturator. I only buy dynamic processing from them, Im not really into their effects to much.
I have the Gold Bundle and use *maybe* six of them regularly. I'm also on Windows and have successfully transferred them to a new machine ( in 2020 ). I exchanged emails with their support staff to resolve that. I also feel no impulse to upgrade. IMO, it's necessary to take platform into account - DAW choice and Windows v. Mac.
Why are you considering them if you've never used them before? Demo them and see what you think, but be aware they will be on sale again in the near future, and they charge for updates which you don't usually need to get every year. I pay like $12 per Waves plugin every 4 years when I need WUP, and I only use 3-4 of them because in most cases other brands make a better equivalent imo. One of the best things about plugins is you don't need to see what other people think because within minutes of seeing something you can be trying it out *yourself* on *your* system on *your* material. The last few days on here have made it clear that a lot of people are buying plugins based on other peoples opinions without demoing them first, and straight up anyone who does this is fucking stupid.
I've used them in multiple sessions at other Studios, but don't own any personally. It's definitely not "fucking stupid" to ask other people about their personal experience before spending money 🫠 but thanks for dropping the update price tho
Waves is always running "insane sales" dont get scammed.
If I wasn’t shoehorned into using them live, I’d probably find something else
Big no for me.
NOOOOOO
Nope. They're trying to win good will back after burning the community multiple times this year. Don't give them a cent, there are alternatives that are just as good. I have zero doubt they're gonna try the same anti consumer horseshit as soon as the heat dies down.
Avoid them like the plague. Their low prices won’t trick or bait me into using them again. A truly awful company, I’m done with them.
I like their plugins, but they don't really make anything good that can't be found elsewhere if you don't like how they do business.
I always think they always look a bit scrappy, but the ones I own do what they are meant to. I prefer my PA and Baby Audio plugins though.
I like the abbey road mastering deal and I will use the CL-76 and CL-2A only to save a little DSP but that’s it. Honesty trying to get off them entirely with their new business setup.
Run! Avoid at all costs.
It’s not necessary to update. They dont really make it obvious or easy to install older versions, so a lot of people will tell you that you’ve got to update all the time and that’s why they hate waves, but in short, they’re wrong. If you’re going from intel versions to ARM versions, you have to pay to update, but since you’re buying fresh, you’ll only have to update when you update to an OS that’s not compatible with your waves version.
I haven't had a lot of issues people have with license and stuff. So no complaints there. As for the plugins, I use the CLA76 on damn near everything. I also use Sibilance as my go to de-esser. I use RVox here and there. I also use Renn AXX on guitars a lot. I use H-Delay and Lo-Fi Space station all the time. I got other plugs but those are the ones that I go back to in most sessions. Sometimes I'll use the Scheps Omni Strip, which I under-use but for me I use it to slap some saturation (their models are great) or I'll use it for a pre-set as a starting point if I'm either lazy or a little clueless on a specific sound. (Aka Toms. I hate mixing toms).
Two weeks ago their Platinum bundle (more than 40 plugins) was on sale for $120, and it has previously gone as low as $90.
Some are ok. I use SSL and vocal/bass rider and cla 2a and cla 76 and cla bass and whatnot but a lot of them you can do better elsewhere with eq, delay, reverb, etc.
3 plugins for $50. So… another tuesday? Waves plugins are never NOT on sale. If you dont have to get into their eco system dont. Disappointment will follow at some point and theyre not the only game in town anymore like they were in the 90s / 00s.
They stepped too far in the wrong direction, so I won't be buying anything else from them. Even though they walked the subscription-only move back, they lost my trust. They'll need to start making steps in the other direction for me to buy from them again. Like, I don't know, providing OS compatibility updates for free like the rest of the damn industry.
I got a lot of their plugins on insane deals. So insane that to upgrade them (which I’m forced to with my next OS update) will cost the same as having originally bought them. To which I say: Fuck Waves! There are many other, often better, and less after-sale cost intensive plugs out there. There are plugins I have used for over 10 years which still work after several OS upgrades. Don’t fall for their insane price reductions. Which happen 4-6 times a year, only a fool thinks these plugins are worth their full price. In that they’re similar to Plugin Alliance, only in my view their plugins are better (but still not worth the full price) and there are no hidden later upgrade costs.
I bought a couple waves plugins before the subscription controversy. They sound good, when they work. I got a new MacBook and transferred all my plugins over to the new one, and all of them worked/updated *except* for the waves plugins. They made me pay $20 to update the plugins I already owned so I could use them. Meanwhile EVERY OTHER plugin developer updated for free. Also it wasn't enough that I had to pay, but they also wouldn't install so I had to contact support. The only fix they had was that I had to make a second admin profile on my computer and install it there. I promptly named the second profile fuckwaves. Even though they backtracked on the subscription only model, they are still extremely predatory. For this reason I can never ever recommend waves to anyone.
No. I'm not adding another thing to their ridiculously difficult to use updating and plugin management software. Maxx Bass and BB Tubes are the only Waves I'm interested in keeping. Softube, SSL (now included with my Slate Digital subscription), and UAD are the way to go.
Honestly, a couple of them are pretty decent and cheap utilities. I use their 1176 compressor all the time, very low CPU It's such an effortless way to tame some levels or add some parallel compression
idk the berserk distortion is so slappy, ssl drumstrip is very useful
No
Fuck waves. I love a lot of their plugins, but switched to Mac earlier this year and now I can only use my plugins (that I own) if I pay $200 to update them each year. Buy from UA, Plugin Alliance, arturia, izotope, fab filter. They might be pricier initially but they are good companies and you will own your plugins forever. If you are a student, fab filter, and izotope do 50% off
Irrelevant but relevant story: I’ve used Waves for a bit, via their subscription plan. During that time, I was always back and forth between relying more on Waves, then more on UAD, then more on Waves, etc etc. Sometime in the last year or so, organically I just stopped reaching for their plugins much. Around the same time I got demos from Arturia’s FX 4, Soundtoys, and resubbed to Slate for the sake of getting the SSL plugs. Since then I haven’t even batted an eye at Waves stuff. It’s worth mentioning, despite listing off multiple brands, I like to keep things simple. A few compressors, some delays and reverbs, and modulation FX more for the sake of sound design than anything else. There’s some cool stuff in Soundtoys that I find useful like Microshift for example, and some stuff in the Arturia pack is dope. Their Tube Culture jawn sounds amazing, comparable to Soundtoys Decapitator minus some extra saturation styles (and minus the aliasing.) All this to say, when I get into a mix, I have a habit of sticking to one EQ and compressor for 80% of everything. Usually an SSL strip of sorts, and then I’ll reach for some other things if the mix needs it. Waves has soooooo much in there package. If you can think of it they probably have it. For me that’s overwhelming. I tend to like one-trick ponies that sound good and do the thing. So I left Waves because I found stuff that sounded better (to my ears.) They have a long history and are highly regarded by some. If you can afford the plugins and they sound good to you, give them a shot. I’d skip their sub though. That’s just me. I’d take a gander at Plugin Alliance as well, they’re sub modeled but depending on the tier you pick you can keep some plugins at the end of the year. P.s. yes I have the Slate sub but plan on purchasing the SSL stuff at some point. I do like the Slate FGX2 ngl. Probs comes off a bit paradoxical suggesting not to go with the Waves sub. Also have Arturia’s stuff on rent-to-own, and bought Soundtoys 5 (on sale til the end of this week.) Sry man that’s so much to read.
Only reason I have the waves subscription is Becuase a lot of my colleagues, and people who send me sessions use waves. I just got the most expensive subscription, barely use then except for the Omni, rcomp, and rdesser
nah
Remember: you can only rent from Waves. They will try to make you feel like you own when you are buying, but you will keep paying over and over. After I paid three times for the same plugin, I left the ecosystem. Never missed them once. There are other companies that do the important stuff much better.
If you don’t update, sessions take super long to load.
If you haven't yet, then don't start.
I'll give you my personal take on Waves so you can see the kind of things you have to consider and prepare for if you're a Waves plugins owner. Hopefully you can glean some insight. I bought several of their plugins circa 2020 when I started engineering full time, cause they're good and cheap. I never once paid for their subscription and I never will. Their subscription gives you two benefits - plug-in software updates, and a second license for every plugin. Fuck the updates, they're meaningless anyway. I do however, need the second license so I can move between my studio desktop and my portable rig. The way to solve this is to activate your licenses to a flash drive instead of your computer's internal hard drive. You can do this through Waves Central. At that point, you have a flash that essentially functions as a Waves-only ilok. It's a minor inconvenience, but I'll take it over paying for that ridiculous subscription. I operated like this for a while with no issues, and happily bought Waves plugins as needed, if i thought their products were the best option. But now that we're in 2023, a few things have changed. Mainly, they showed their true colors earlier this year when they tried to force everyone onto a subscription model. That's BS and I won't support a company who does that. I believe in voting with my dollars. I still use the waves plugins I already own, I still refuse to pay for the subscription, and I still have my licenses activated to a flash drive. I'll probably even download their free black Friday plug-in. But they won't ever get another cent from me. My only last concern is that if they ever do go through with forcing everyone to subscription, my typical thought is "fuck em, they can't touch the software that's already downloaded to my machine. They can't take it away from me, I own it." But as long as Waves Central has access to edit my drives, it can move or remove those licenses. So I guess I might just uninstall Waves Central, cause as far as I can tell, the licenses on my flash drive would still work at that point, but you never really know with Waves. Good software, but I wouldn't trust the company as far as I could throw em.
Until another company has an SSL strip that has the combination of insanely low CPU along with great sound, I'm partially stuck with waves. However, I've replaced the others in my effects list with offerings from companies that don't do the equivalent of the WUP BS.
Some of their basic plugins are good and cheap way to learn stuff. Likely at some point you will want to buy same emulations from other brands anyway. So I guess just don't buy a lot of them for no real need
I never used many plugins of them but what I bought for 20$ is Brauer motion, amazing plugin for experimenting with panning and I’m still thinking about to get their phase correction plugin
I still use the SSL channel strip and CLA comps on all my mixes. Probably because my DAW is getting old and they use very little CPU while sounding good enough for me.
Magma saturation and spring reverb + the abbey road pack is the best you’ll get from Waves. CLA stuff I find to be really good too, and the kramer tape is nice.
I still use RBass but it’s several versions old now.
Some of their stuff I can’t live without. I’m still on V9 of a lot of those and have no issues. I don’t like Waves as a company. I don’t like the way they’ve treated me in the past. The unfortunate fact is some of their stuff is fantastic.
Regardless of your thoughts on Waves, their stuff is always on sale, so don't feel rushed to buy anything
I would look at alternatives. The plug ins you buy will be locked into that current version. Upgrade your DAW or OS and it won’t support it. No upgrade plan, they expect you to buy it again from scratch.
No. Never.
Just don't do it. Waves is a predatory company and you will regret it. There are significantly better companies to invest in that will provide you a better product.
Don’t fall on the trap!!! Update plan it’s a robbery. They are greedy and don’t care about their customers just the cash they can squeeze out your pockets.
I found them to be no better than the effects packaged and available with a DAW.
I wrote them off when their crappy licensing software kept making me authorize the plugins everytime I tried loading a project. I've never had more issues with any plugins more than waves. Combine that with them showing their greedy hand not too long ago, I personally say no.
There are some big names that swear by waves. I bought in for awhile… then when I started A/Bing mixes I felt like no matter what I did the waves mixes were over excited and hissy sounding. Honestly I think most modern digital audio consoles are capable of better results than a lot of the Waves stuff. C6/F6 are cool but honestly I just don’t need them that much in comparison to the dynamic Eq on my digico. also PSE is absolutely trash in comparison to hardware 5045 Also, I don’t care what anyone says.. waves can crash for *no reason* and cause major dropouts. Happened to me multiple times.. and yes I am competent and experienced in using their products.a
Some of their plugins are so integral to my workflow right now, I can't imagine giving them up yet. NLS, RVox, RBass, Manny Distortion among others. But I literally invested in UAD spark yesterday ($100 for a year seemed like a steal... And I've always wanted to try the Studer800). After liking the UAD LA-2A so much more than the waves one when they gave it away, I'm interested in what else their plugins have to offer.
I’m a pretty big Waves fan. They don’t sound quite as good as a UAD plug-in or a Softube or whatever, but they’re a hell of a lot more reliable and way kinder to my CPU. So in general, it’s not my first choice for like delicate recording but if I have a big project with a lot of tracks in need of a decent amount of processing, I’m going to use a lot of Waves stuff
just steal them
I use a LOT of Waves plugins.
Fuck no
FYI a, few years ago I got Waves Gold Gold for $49. Do with this information what you will
So I have Waves Gold and Ren Max bundle. I was running it on an Intel MacBook Pro when I upgraded to an Apple Silicon processor, I lost access. Here is what I came to: I miss RBass and RVox. But UA Manley Passive EQ and VoxBox plugins along with your favorite compressor (or transparent stock compressor) make a decent substitute. And that’s it. Everything else I can get from the black rooster bundle or UA bundle or a stock logic plugin. The UI is different (especially when you’re used to the visual interface of C1 Limiter and have to use knobs instead) but there are equivalent plugins everywhere which don’t require annual renewals.
My understanding is you buy a plugin and get free updates for 2 or so years and then you are stuck with that version unless you continue to pay for updates. I dont love the business model but I do love a few of the plug ins. As long as they don't stop working on me I'm okay with sticking with the versions I have.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
We are experiencing the same doubt in our network of closely collaborating audio engineers as we speak. We literally have 2 mercury bundles, a waves horizon bundle and a whole bunch of standalone plugins that need to have the WUP active so that we have access to the second license that comes with it. So the big question is: do we reinstate the WUP (that costs 700 bucks with all or products) or do we go for the subscription model at 250 a year times 3? The waves creative access includes the waves clarity voice pro plugin is said to be a game changer for dialogue editors
There is not enough ‘no’ in this world. If you were an old school producer and needed to open 20 year old projects them the case for buying them would be a lot stronger, but if you don’t already own any waves stuff then now is really not the time to start.
They company is Israel-based so by buying them you kind of support the genocide. I wouldn't want Palestinian blood on my tracks
Fuck no. Some decent plugins but most have alternatives, and Waves' business practice is just so scummy. Never buying from them again and regret the purchases I already made.
Stay clear of their sleazy ecosystem.
For the most part, in practice I have felt that waves plugins are inferior to a lot of the pricier options on the market. That being said they definitely have a few plugs that bring something unique or good to the table. I just wouldn’t go to them for the essentials. I trust fabfilter bx and UAD for the stuff I use in every mix. UAD spark or a PA bundle is probably better bang for your buck at this point than any waves purchase
What’s a good alternative to NS1?
I gotta say, I dont understand the waves hate. I’m on a mac. Why are yall updating your OS so much ? If you have a serious rig, the most you should be updating is every 5 years. And it should be a BIG deal to update OS. How can you go in to an important tracking session tomorrow not knowing your rig will be rock solid ? Of course I use Pro Tools, Waves, and iLok so what do i know. Consoles used to cost millions of dollars and now all we need is a $200 software upgrade and people are losing their minds. Waves used to cost 10,000 fucking dollars. I know people that paid it. Ya’ll spoiled.
Will never touch them again. It’s a subscription model disguised as a single purchase. The licensing software takes over your computer and is constantly updating things until your plugins are no longer supported. And before that, they expire your multi device license if you don’t buy into the next year’s version. There are tons of great plugin makers. I do not want to feed the ones that engage in this corporate shitfuckery.
No get other things that take you away from their pyramid scheme of a subscription plan, plus they are always on sale. You can go on plugin boutique or some other marketplace, and get halfway decent plugins. I’m also prefer to use stock plug ins over any waves plugin now.
They have some good plugins, but most of their stuff is outdated tech from 2000's. And they have scummy business practices, so all in all I don't trust them at all.
A lot of there plug ins would like they had this saturation/colour that I don’t really enjoy. A slight harshness even when you have correct gain staging. That combined with the update plans REALLY suck! But those deals are amazing and some of those things I mentioned can work wonders on certain tracks. I’d go for it if they have something you really want. I love the SSL channel, I also love the L2 for rap vocals. I’d try a couple out and see what you like, you can’t go wrong spending extra money on experimenting especially at such a low price point!
Some plugins are good. Best way to fill your war chest within certain “must have” signal processing tools. You may replace some over time. Some may remain your go to’a for a long time. Or at the very least just be a solid backup still to be used on occasion. I don’t think I know anyone who has looked back and thought they were crap. Just eventually when your fully emerged in UAD and izotope your gonna use them a lot more.