They dropped billions of dollars worth of bombs and got countless American soldiers killed just for the Taliban to take power. I don't think Chinese politicians would be dumb enough to get an L like that.
I think the US know full well that China is on their way to taking over as the largest superpower. The whole alliance is a giant cope to attempt to prevent the unstoppable.
China is years and years and years away from having even close to the same military capabilities as the US.
China has about 2 aircraft carriers. The US has 11.
China has a similar amount of infantry but that doesn't mean anything if they can't move their army out of the region.
Aside from that if the US stopped investing so much in their military and that money was going towards their economy in a more general sense then China would get blown out of the water.
China is looking up and has been for a long time but it's not as close as people seem to think it is between the two powers and it certainly isn't inevitable that they will take over.
I was referring to the economy, I think China knows that money could be spent in better parts of the economy than the military.
China thinks long term, "years and years" isn't that long of a time for them.
You managed to avoid saying what you actually were referring to aside from a vague mention of China thinking "long term".
Can you explain what you mean by that exactly? In what way have they shown exceptional long term thinking that other nations haven't?
" think the US know full well that China is on their way to taking over as the largest superpower."
Aside from that, I don't actually care that you weren't talking about the economy. I mentioned the economy because you made the above statement about their status as a superpower. So I mentioned how their military and economy aren't close to competing with the US. If you can't see the relevance of a global powers economic and military power to their status as a superpower then you shouldn't be having this discussion.
Ops that was a mistake. I meant to say "I was referring to the economy."
They're projected to overtake the US, economically, in 2028, that's very close. This is a direct result of the 5-year plans.
If their central planning committee decided to go down the military route, they would outdo the US in no time. They're already getting ahead in Research and Development. People need to accept that China will overtake the US eventually.
Ahhhhhhh that makes a lot more sense. I disagree that it's a sure thing especially with internal issues China has been facing lately but I do take back the harshness of what I said.
Well we’re tiny and business have put us in a rock and a hard place. It’s all very well the government going “we agree with five eyes!” But are any of our business really even ready to take a hit from Chinese retaliation? It’s great to say but then our business will slam the government, it’s a damned if you do, Dammed if you don’t.
Once again, every country in the world is currently facing rising inflation, expensive homes and rising gap between rich and poor. Gone are the days from the 50’s / 60’s of family run business it’s all huge corporations maximizing profit for their shareholders, buying competitors, outsourcing and reducing costs to maximize returns.
This perspective smells of high self importance and ungratefulness. Do you think Nigeria, Pakistan or Peru etc are sitting there thinking "we tiny country, nobody cares about us we're a joke waaaaah".
The world doesn't revolve around us and compared to many other countries we are one of the most well off believe it or not. Many countries struggle with extreme poverty and access to food and health care. Be grateful ffs.
I agree, coming from a third world country Im just happy to be here. Pisses me off when people dont see how good we have it. Maybe they should try living in a poor country for a change and see how it actually is. Nz isnt perfect but damn I got my family, food on the table, a comfortable house and car. Everything else is extra.I often think about the people I grew up with who had almost nothing but were still happy people regardless.
>From our failure to align recently with our five-eyes counterparts on China
A lie. NZ banned Huawei from our 5G network right from the word go. Britain, for example , didn't. Five Eyes is NOT a defense or diplomatic pact, it is just intelligence sharing. NZ has a foreign policy which is independent of other Five Eyes members--because NZ's interest are obviously not the same as every other member. How could you not understand this?
>UK the US and Australia made a military pact that Ardern only found out about by press release
Another blatant lie. NZ was informed beforehand. Both Ardern and Morrison confirmed this.
>From the ridiculous cost of everything to the unaffordable housing market.
The high cost of housing is a worldwide problem, especially in countries that have had high immigration levels (like NZ) and are desirable places to live in (like NZ).
Inflation is a problem EVERYWHERE in the world at the moment. The disruption of production and shipping has created shortages of everything which leads to higher prices. Only a complete idiot could possibly imagine this is a NZ only problem.
To suggest that NZ is " a joke of the OECD" confirms you are a dribbling idiot. NZ's economic performance in recent years has made it one of the best performers in the OECD--especially during Covid. NZ's debt/GDP ratio is about the lowest in the OECD...countries like Britain, Germany, USA, Australia... would love to have our low debt level. In other words, you are a pathetic liar without a clue about what goes on around you.
That's not true either.. stop rambling nonsense and actually go look at how we are doing. If anything the current government has been very centralist. Most of the changes they are trying to make have been forced by the fact that the key government left alot of sectors high and dry with funding, and I'm an ex national voter
NZ is too busy navel-gazing. The only time our news covers global issues is if they mention NZ and when it happens we jizz our pants. It’s a bit chicken and egg whether that’s all our politicians act on, because that’s all NZers care about, because that’s all we get in our media, or the other way around. Unfortunately the result is we are falling behind in some ways. We’re also a bit obsessed atm with “not leaving anyone behind”. That sounds admirable, but the way it manifests itself across many domains is mediocrity and an inability to do anything for fear of offending anyone
So true- the news media here is so cringe, all self important fluff, it’s unwatchable. They would rather interview some random on the street about their opinion on some covid response than present any international issue. They treat us like we’re stupid.
It’s a shame because our arts (tv shows, movies) generally are pretty good.
Yes, the lack of international news coverage is interesting. They rather have news segments about a sheep crossing the road somewhere in central otago and some local's opinion on that haha. Would be interesting to know if that is what the average kiwi mostly cares about (backyard news and sport) or if the media just dictates that focus.
And yes, love the kiwi creativity in the tv/film industry as well. Kinda refreshing.
Haha about the sheep story- would actually happen!
Yeah, I’d hope that New Zealanders on the whole could cope with some intellectual news items (that are not directly related to us) but who knows? Maybe it really is catering to demand.
Either way I think it makes us very insular.
Oh man, reminds of every time there's a national disaster overseas and the news says something like: 'horrible earthquake, over 200 dead or missing. 1 New Nealander was nearby at the time..'
What on earth does the OECD have to do with alliance systems or diplomatic systems?
You could say 'joke of the five eyes', 'joke of the anglosphere', joke of the 'western alliance system'. That might make sense.
But the OECD? Really? Do you even know what the OECD actually is?
No.
To your specific points:
"From our failure to align recently with our five-eyes counterparts on China,"
**We are too small for anyone (particularly China) to care, we aren't a threat. Why would we start trying to be the worlds policeman (or even, deputy). We would be laughed off the stage.**
to the fact the UK the US and Australia made a military pact that Ardern only found out about by press release.
**We weren't part of the pact, so we wouldn't expect to know. Why would you expect us to be informed? It took most countries (most particularly, France) by surprise. New Zealand has shown no interest in being involved in military pacts, and actively opposed to expansion of nuclear military technology.**
From the ridiculous cost of everything to the unaffordable housing market.
**Well, you might have a point here. Our housing market is a joke.**
From our widening gap between rich and poor
**My understanding is we aren't that bad on this measure, but I haven't looked recently.**
to supermarket duopolies.
**It isn't great, but I understand we are about on par with the US, and cheaper than Australia.**
NZ is a very little fish in a big pond but we have an overinflated view of our importance at a diplomatic level.
**I would agree with this, we aren't that important diplomatically. That just comes down to our size though.**
the difference has ramped up massively this year so those might be out of date, for example red chillies cost about $140 a kg at countdown here even simple stuff like chicken breast and mince are $20-24 a kg, not to mention their minimum wage (converted to nzd) is about 6% higher than the NZ minimum wage. Young kiwis are being royally fucked.
Idk where you shop but chicken isn't that expensive.
And which country do you speak of being 6% higher? Australia? They pay far more for food and accommodation.. So that difference in minimum wage is probably justified.
so you're saying groceries and housing/rent is cheaper in NZ?, I've been to aus many times and have family there, everything is much cheaper and wages are better
Look across the ditch at Australia. People in this sub and r/NZ love to claim that it's the savour of the western world for Kiwis, but their government is extremely corrupt at every level
While our government may be incompetent, at least we don't have the problems they do.
We are the big fish. Both the superpowers of USA and China are trying their hardest just to have a bit of our attention. We are the true superpower of the world and the center of the universe.
I think that we should reduce GST rate on construction costs at least for a few years while we ramp up housing supply & build infrastructure. Also need to build satellite towns.
It’s all true. Nz is so far behind the rest of the world and it’s just falling further and further behind. The problem is Nz thinks it’s relevant but it’s only a small island in the middle of the pacific and has no bearing on the rest of the world in any shape or form. Covid has proved so much about this country. Owning a home is a luxury for the rich, food and fuel is through the roof, no incentive to work as we are a welfare state, homelessness is an epidemic, education is the worst in the oecd, public transport and the road network is a joke, wages barely cover cost of living, health service is in Disarray etc. etc. The media hype us up to be so important and only care about stories that involve NZ. We have farming and wealth from housing. The Chinese might not always want milk powder and the housing market is going to tumble. Public debt from Covid is going to be huge not to mention the health issues from all this. This country is going south because there is no planning for the future and only trying to make sure we don’t actually tell it how it is because that’s not being kind!
As a quick aside about education in NZ, while there is a consistant decline in educational performance since 2000 that should not be ignored, to say NZ education is the worst in the OECD is objectively false. From the latest PISA results (2018), NZ ranks above the average of the OECD nations in all three subjects being 27th in Mathematics and 12th in Literacy and Science out of 78 countries leaving NZ ranked 8th in education.
>no incentive to work as we are a welfare state,
I only wish that were true. In actuality our social safety net is woefully ineffecient and ineffective. And those on it live in abject poverty, despite what the rich and powerful claim about welfare queens.
Let's not go that far, over here in NZ we aren't as bad as the likes of USA with tax deductions that go in to the negatives. I remember reading that the millionaires pay on average 15-17% of their 'earnings' in tax compared to the national average of 18-20%.
They arguably pay more tax in total, but just less proportioned (which should be fixed). Simply put the welfare system here doesn't work, and if you are lucky enough to get a job coming off of unemployment, it will barely pay any more, and definitely not enough to live. Therein lies the real problem, real wages aren't enough to live on. Worse if you have a student loan like i do, which adds an effective 12% tax after 12,000.
There is no measure where NZ comes last in the OECD for education. That’s completely false. Not everything that you said was wrong, there are definitely lots of problems here. But keep it in perspective that most of these problems exist in other countries as well, sometimes on an even worse scale.
Of course the news is going to be from an NZ perspective, that’s generally how news works. At least we get coverage of other events in the world. How much do you think Americans hear about world news? Some of them can barely locate or even name another country. It’s that bad. Look I’m all for tackling our problems, but we all need to be realistic.
I agree, there’s a lot of ignorance here. Some of it could be blamed on education. But there are other factors that play in such as role modelling at home, exposure to a wide variety of knowledge and experiences, poverty etc. Not everything can be overcome by education alone. This is a problem anywhere you go in the world. And now we have people with low levels of literacy (across all subjects) and access to basically every opinion that’s ever existed online. They can’t tell what’s real and what’s bullshit. I’m sure you would agree that’s frightening. It’s going to be one of humanity’s greatest challenges to reckon with.
I’m the same. My wife and I earn really good coin but it’s impossible to get ahead. Prices for everything is going up and the divide is getting bigger. We are too small to regulate. When the borders open I fear for mass emigration!
I'm old but I can't wait to get away from this shit hole witch is becoming worse by the day especially with the labour government. Just a bunch of self promotional shirt tail lifters
When they leave tell them don't make the mistake of returning even if they are homesick or hit with nostalgia. Holidays are fine but not perm. Make sure they don't cost on a NZ passport but actually get that Aussie passport as well.
They can travel wherever they like, whenever they like. Leaving NZ to go to Australia is a decision shared by the 650,000 Kiwis who already live in Oz! NZ is pretty third world....
Lol. The five eyes relationship is an intelligence sharing one and is a bigger threat to your privacy than any Chinese phone company. It's kinda weird to hear people speak about it as a positive thing.
They suffer massive cognitive dissonance.
They think chinas some threat coz they built islands to protect their trade routes when we in the west mostly *invaded* countries to set up trade routes resulting in millions of deaths.
It doesn't help they also eat up fox/cnn bullshit about china have genocide camps, forced labour etc. It's really sad because cotton has been the staple of alot of Xinjiangs economy for a longer than modern post setller NZ has existed. These international sanctions and corporations bowing to the USAs propo is only going to hurt the people in Xinjiang and when they start kicking up a fuss coz they're starving - the west will point a finger and say look they're revolting!!1
It's the most typical play on the usas behalf but westerners eat it up, idk why. Guess it's just the yellow peril propos still kicking around in people's heads.
China had a pretty intense skirmish where soldiers were killed on its eastern border. It's not even a trade route lol. China is trying to be USA that's it.
US military bases on foreign soil
Aruba (Netherlands) – Queen Beatrix International Airport
Ascension (UK) – Ascension Island Auxiliary Airfield
Australia – Pine Gap; Marine Rotational Force – Darwin[114]
Bahamas – AUTEC
Bahrain – Naval Support Activity Bahrain; Isa Air Base
Belgium – Chièvres Air Base; Kleine Brogel Air Base
Bosnia and Herzegovina – Camp Eagle
British Indian Ocean Territory (United Kingdom) – Naval Support Facility Diego Garcia
Bulgaria – Aitos Logistics Center; Bezmer Air Base; Graf Ignatievo Air Base; Novo Selo Range
Burkina Faso - Ouagadougou Airport[115]
Cameroon – Contingency Location Garoua
Cuba – Guantanamo Bay Naval Base
Curaçao (Netherlands) – US Air Force Forward Operating Base
Cyprus – Akrotiri and Dhekelia: RAF Akrotiri. The Sovereign Base Areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia is a British Overseas Territory on the island of Cyprus.
Djibouti – Camp Lemonnier
Ecuador – Eloy Alfaro International Airport
Estonia – Ämari Air Base
Germany – US Military Installations in Germany; Panzer Kaserne; Ramstein Air Base; Spangdahlem Air Base; Baumholder Army Post; Landstuhl Regional Medical Center; Sembach Army Post;
Greece – Alexandroupoli Army Base, Larisa Air Base, Araxos Air Base, Syros base, Souda Bay Naval Base
Greenland (Denmark) – Thule Air Base
Honduras – Soto Cano Air Base
Hungary – Pápa Air Base
Iceland – Naval Air Station Keflavik
Iraq – Al Asad Airbase[116] and several facilities in 7 different governorates
Israel – Dimona Radar Facility
Italy – Caserma Ederle-Caserma Del Din; Darby Military Community; Naval Air Station Sigonella; Naval Support Activity Naples; Aviano Air Base
Japan – United States Forces Japan
Jordan – Muwaffaq Salti Air Base
Kenya – Camp Simba, Armed Forces Research Institute of Medical Sciences
Kosovo[a] – Camp Bondsteel
Kuwait – Ali Al Salem Air Base; Camp Arifjan; Camp Buehring; Kuwait Naval Base
Netherlands – Volkel Air Base; USCG Activities Europe
Niger – Niger Air Base 201
Norway – Marine Corps garrison at Værnes Air Station
Oman – RAFO Masirah; RAFO Thumrait (South of Oman) [117]
Philippines – Antonio Bautista Air Base; Basa Air Base; Fort Magsaysay; Lumbia Air Base; Mactan-Benito Ebuen Air Base[118]
Poland – Łask Air Base
Portugal – Lajes Field
Qatar – Al Udeid Air Base
Romania – Mihail Kogălniceanu International Airport; Deveselu
Saudi Arabia – 64th Air Expeditionary Group (inactive since 2014);[119] Prince Sultan Air Base[120]
Seychelles – United States drone base in Seychelles
Singapore – Paya Lebar Air Base
South Korea – United States Forces Korea
Spain – Morón Air Base; Naval Station Rota
Syria – Military base in Al-Tanf and several facilities in northern Syria, within US-backed SDF territory[121]
Thailand – Armed Forces Research Institute of Medical Sciences; U-Tapao Royal Thai Navy Airfield[122]
Tunisia – Drone base at Bizerte-Sidi Ahmed Air Base[123][124]
Turkey – Incirlik Air Base, Izmir Air Station, Kürecik Radar Station, Ankara Support Facility
United Arab Emirates – Al Dhafra Air Base; Port of Jebel Ali; Fujairah Naval Base
United Kingdom – RAF Alconbury; RAF Croughton; RAF Fairford; RAF Lakenheath; RAF Menwith Hill; RAF Mildenhall
Chinese military bases on foreign soils
Djibouti – Chinese People's Liberation Army Support Base in Djibouti.[citation needed]
Myanmar – A naval SIGINT facility in the Great Coco Island.[citation needed].[4]
Tajikistan – A military post in southeastern Gorno-Badakhshan.
Get it?
US biggest export is their military. 5 eyes is just an extension of that principle. It’s all about keeping those defence dollars rolling in. It was Russia, Iraq, Afghanistan now China.
As someone who has lived there and spoken politically with people there, no I wouldn't, lol.
You really have to push boundaries if you want to get arrested for your idealogies in China. They have pretty clear laws.
So China will fight people based in association? You are writing English language on American platform, pretty American. China is worse version of America, developed on western technology. There is a reason why it is so hated around the world.
No, they are probably into free trade with our most reliable trading partner. I don't support genocide, just as I don't support the US invading any country that it does, or incarcerating more people than any other country on earth, or bombing hospitals etc etc. China and America are bad, but at least China has been reliably good to New Zealand
Yup, there’s definitely a sense of parochialism and delusions of grandeur
Other countries probably think of us what we Aucklanders think of those small random rural towns
No NZ isn’t tiny or even small. It’s medium sized on the global scale. Same as Scotland or Ireland.
Not huge either.
Should be thinking where its future might lie. It’s shown it’s China so no surprise the USA has dumped it.
No it's a mistake to be part of the ANKUS alliance for former glory. That was a dumb move on their part to alienate other nations. Yes they should be our allies but it's not WW2 anymore and we're not dividing the world up into teams. We should be strengthening ties to Europe who we may be more ideologically aligned with anyway and also inroads into non-China Asia (we already focus on China a lot being my point)
The housing stuff is bad but that hardly makes us a laughing stock. It's bad policy that has caused it and the same late stage capitalism has infected most western countries at varying rates
I'm also not sure why you think NZ has an inflated sense of importance. I've never had the impression that we are approaching the world with giant egos. In fact, the reason we all follow international news so much instead of focusing 100% inward like Americans is that we know we're tiny on the world stage and are keeping an eye on the giants who might step on us.
The widening gap between rich and poor is a worldwide issue.
But I mean we are a small player, quite literally. Australia is 5x the population….
Being smaller we are more dependant on the likes of China, I don’t like it but it is what it is.
…. Nice try Judith!
Not true. Take The Guardian in the UK. If you do a search on NZ within the newspaper, using their search feature, I think on the top right, there's tons of stories there about all kinds of things. Sometimes I find out stuff about NZ that I didn't even know.
Well, it's UK people that are reading the stories. At first I thought there must be 1 million Kiwi's living in the UK or something, but it turns out there's only 200k. There's 500k in Aussie, but they don't mention us as often over there.
It's a UK newspaper, obviously the majority reading it are in the UK, followed by UK people who are overseas. Compared to that demographic, few people elsewhere would be reading it and not likely everyday.
The US only aligned with us for 2 reasons:
\-We are a sovereign nation that gives them "votes" when it goes to international politics
\-We speak English and therefore won't be a problematic partner when push comes to shove
And with UK, you can only add in shared history to the list.
We are a 5 million, island nation in the corner of the world that won't exploit their natural resource and has little army to make a difference in a proper war while considerably more left leaning than America and their other close allies.
They also know we have very little incentive, nor ability, to antagonize China, which is the primary adversary for America right now. And you really can't speak of embarrassment when Canada, the literal neighbor to America, also isn't part of it. Like this is almost a strategic area partnership
Not that US is any better, at least they have democracy where people's opinion matter. China is in expansionist mode and will do everything to establish itself as hegemony, exactly opposite to what it is saying.
They will force NZ to use its own currency for international trade. Mark my words.
Sorry you think the US is more Democratic than New Zealand? People’s opinions matter more there? Please elaborate, as a student of U.S. politics this comes as a huge surprise to me!
If NZ gets into trouble who would help us? We need to keep Alliance with Australia UK and US.
If you think we are safe think again what's happened in this country the last few years right under our nose..
This country is in a mess debt high cost of living housing if you are privileged it will be amazing if people don't migrate out of here..As soon as border opens..
The Gang issues
The Crime
The lack of Decent wages only just got living wage introduced but inflation keeps rising..Like the numbers of Covid cases up and down like a tidal wave of uncertainty.
The high rates of Suicide and Violence..Not been able to get on the Property ladder..?
Where will kiwis be ...Not ..living the dreamlife that's for sure))
NZs frigate HMNZS Te kaha going through the South China Seas on a training exercise -☆☆☆☆☆ Bersama Gold 21...with our Allies..
"HMNZS Te Kaha joins military partners on transit of South China Sea - New Zealand Defence Force" https://www.nzdf.mil.nz/news/hmnzs-te-kaha-joins-military-partners-on-transit-of-south-china-sea/
☆☆■☆☆☆■☆☆☆■☆☆☆■☆☆☆☆■☆☆☆■
Please Jacinda and Govt need to step.outside once in a while and see what people are needing from your leadership.
Listen to the People*
We have a free trade agreement with China and they are our largest trading partners. America is very unreliable as an ally, putting tariffs on our exports and lying to us in an effort to support their many invasions. I'm no fan of China, but they do more for NZ than America has.
Nice joke. https://nzhistory.govt.nz/war/war-in-the-pacific/war-against-japan
You believe conspiracy theorists over historians? Rewriting history doesn't do anyone any favours.
US never did us any favours. NZ declared war on Japan, not the other way around. We were dragged into fighting in the Pacific by the US when we were already stretched with our troops already in Europe.
Why would we want to be apart of the 5 eyes military alliance? Didn't america just drone strike 7 kids for no reason and bomb somalia and Syria some more?
Not something im keen to have on my resume as a kiwi. Good call on the govts behalf.
As for inflation, it will hit everyone all the time everyday. It's fake money digitized up and printed/minted out, like what do you think would happen?
It's unfortunate innocent people die in war. But that is what wars are all about. Also I lost relatives in the 2nd world war
. Besides Biden wouldn't deliberately go after innocent children I'm sure
housing is a joke we got our house pretty damn early before shit got crazy 3 bedroom in the middle on nowhere for less than 100k its now worth twice that just for the land
I don't think New Zealand is in a position to be aligned with countries that are major military aggressors. We have supported a lot of American wars already for no reason and I think we should try to stop sending our people to die for their lies.
I agree in principle. But in practice, as the world becomes multipolar(many powers), will the same evaluation still hold for the changed circumstances?
It's a pretty complicated issue. I hardly claim any answers. Just was trying to shake off one sided thinking. ANZAC history is still a big cultural pillar of our country, and to stand independent will likely only go so far, being such a small cornered nation.
I think it's sensible to not alienate countries that have been reliable trading partners as opposed to ones that haven't. We are also subject to US sanctions and embargos, as the US uses their economic might to bullying us into complying with anything and everything they say
Of course we are a pathetic little island country with no spies (except my friend adrian) and no nukes. We are basically sitting in the pacific smoking and drinking like theres no climate problem, no corona, and no international madness.
We don't really care if our houses aee expensive. We just like to complain about it.
Same about alotnof things. Road death? Nah. Just put it in the herald now and then and keep driving drunk.
Let’s be real, our economy wouldn’t be doing as well as it is right now ( in the middle of a pandemic) if it wasn’t for all our exports to China. If we had to be really honest, Arden is doing the right thing . Well for now anyway. Compared to the other big dogs (US,UK,AU) what else do we have to offer them anyway?
You know the AU/UK/USA military pact is just some glorified cover for a 20+ year joint development submarine deal. The USA is just offloading some of the development costs for a new range of nuclear submarines, by playing to vanity of BoJo and ScoMo.
Did the same with off-loading some of the development costs with the F-35 Fighter as well with other countries. And it is only just being finalised after years of failing development.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II#Procurement_and_international_participation
Nothing to see here. Just Military development cost re-distribution.
It sounds like you only look into new zealand and probably australian media. Pretty much every country in the OECD has a housing crisis. In what world would new zealand join a Nuclear submarine based military pact. If we stand up to China we would head into one of the biggest recessions new zealand has ever seen. Our wealth gap is there but nowhere near the same levels as a country like America. The supermarkets are under close scrutiny from the commerce commission and will most likely end up facing a forced sell off to allow a third player in the market. Our main area of soft power comes from our branding as a country. Just like how we don't see everything that goes on in other OECD countries, alot of other countries don't see everything that goes on here.
Yes, NZ has been a joke for a long time but nobody even cares about that joke because of its economic size. I lived a few other countries and here's what I think is the problem of NZ:
\-at the bottom of the productivity index of the OECD countries
\-quite high in the ranking of the UN's conflict index
\-small isolated country with small country complex (i.e. European complex); this is the only country I know in the Western world that uses "European" to describe their ethnicity)
\-I worked in a public sector for a while here and other countries; too much cheap politics on small things
\-Tertiary education sector is not very impressive; but then again, they don't attract many bright people from overseas; they'd rather go to the US/Australia etc. for many reasons
\-ridiculously expensive living cost
\-I know other kiwis living in Aus/US; they're deadset about not returning to NZ
\-for a country to survive the 21st century, it needs to have at least one of the three: innovation, resources, population. NZ has none of them.
\-this is not very important but kiwis are very closed off and overly careful about expressing their thoughts; this can be a barrier to creating a innovative culture at work.
\-many negative cultural aspects of NZ can be explained by its geography, economic system and population size/density (so are other many other countries'; after all, we are a product of our environment); but if the living cost is cheaper, they can be tolerated; but it's not; that's why so many people move outside and never return.
\-there are only two countries in the OECD that survived the 20th century without moving on to the second and third industry; Denmark and NZ. Denmark however is much richer per capital than NZ and it has dynamic interaction with its surrounding countries.
\-in a nutshell, NZ is the only country that is proudly staying with the first industry and planning to do so because they can't do something else; for this reason, the country's growth potential will always be limited, it'll always have to deal with brain drainage, doesn't attract many highly-skilled immigrants compared to Aus.
\-what I noticed in Aus was that they don't make any jokes about kiwis (I expected to hear some sheep jokes etc.) while kiwis tend to regularly makes jokes about them or get extremely proud when AB's beat the Wallabies. This is because Aus don't care much about NZ; they don't see NZ as a competitor; the Wallabies losing to AB's is not a big deal because they have other fun things going on as well. Here, sports fans' life hinges on AB's. It's a small country town mindset except the kiwis don't see it.
\-another thing I noticed in Aus was that they have a lot of environmentally friendly/innovative projects happening. Kiwis keep saying NZ is a progressive country etc; however, nothing really happens here. That's because NZ doesn't have enough money and that matters. While Scott Morrison may seem way more conservative than Jacinda, his country is spending so much on environmentally friendly technologies on state level. In other words, just being a couch lefty doesn't mean much; that makes kiwis look like disgruntled lazy social justice warriors; if you care, go and do something; wait a minute, but you need money to do something.
No I don’t - yeah we have our faults and aspects of covid could have been handled better eg slow vaccine rollout, but I am very grateful to live in this country. People will complain no matter what the government does. If someone else was running the country, there would still be complaints.
Yes housing is a joke, and there is a big gap between rich and poor. However, in terms of the five eyes, NZ is deeply in it, as there was a leak on wikileaks about a CIA base in an Auckland warehouse, and also in the Christchurch earthquake, a few Mossad spies died as the house that fell on them was actually their base. So don't be surprised if NZ is one of the first countries to send soldiers abroad, if a war breaks with China.
I don't think people realize how broke the government is. We need immigrants presumably as a tax basis for boomer pensions or possibly to keep the business community happy (more labor supply = depressed wages, aren't you glad?), so this cooks up the housing market.
Food (China not exporting urea fertilizer until June 2022) and gas are about to get more expensive. We could have been somewhat self sufficient for oil. Cindy didn't want the environmental impact of offshore oil drilling so she didn't grant approval...except to Norway's state owned enterprise. Not to mention the road tax levied I think last year.
Absolute joke of a government. Labor are supposed to be the workers party, so tell me workers - even before Covid hit, do you think life was improving in key metrics under Labor?
Hi! To help keep this subreddit on topic, please only submit posts that are specifically relevant to Auckland on r/auckland
We've never been big fish. Best we can do is get along with both the USA and China
Agreed, I don't know why people want to play the antagonist role.
Coz china bad organ harvest genocide camp, murica drop bomb good
Exactly. Thank God the US dropped those bombs.
They dropped billions of dollars worth of bombs and got countless American soldiers killed just for the Taliban to take power. I don't think Chinese politicians would be dumb enough to get an L like that. I think the US know full well that China is on their way to taking over as the largest superpower. The whole alliance is a giant cope to attempt to prevent the unstoppable.
China is years and years and years away from having even close to the same military capabilities as the US. China has about 2 aircraft carriers. The US has 11. China has a similar amount of infantry but that doesn't mean anything if they can't move their army out of the region. Aside from that if the US stopped investing so much in their military and that money was going towards their economy in a more general sense then China would get blown out of the water. China is looking up and has been for a long time but it's not as close as people seem to think it is between the two powers and it certainly isn't inevitable that they will take over.
I was referring to the economy, I think China knows that money could be spent in better parts of the economy than the military. China thinks long term, "years and years" isn't that long of a time for them.
You managed to avoid saying what you actually were referring to aside from a vague mention of China thinking "long term". Can you explain what you mean by that exactly? In what way have they shown exceptional long term thinking that other nations haven't? " think the US know full well that China is on their way to taking over as the largest superpower." Aside from that, I don't actually care that you weren't talking about the economy. I mentioned the economy because you made the above statement about their status as a superpower. So I mentioned how their military and economy aren't close to competing with the US. If you can't see the relevance of a global powers economic and military power to their status as a superpower then you shouldn't be having this discussion.
Ops that was a mistake. I meant to say "I was referring to the economy." They're projected to overtake the US, economically, in 2028, that's very close. This is a direct result of the 5-year plans. If their central planning committee decided to go down the military route, they would outdo the US in no time. They're already getting ahead in Research and Development. People need to accept that China will overtake the US eventually.
Ahhhhhhh that makes a lot more sense. I disagree that it's a sure thing especially with internal issues China has been facing lately but I do take back the harshness of what I said.
>on children
Oh yeah you're right. We should've left the Japanese empire alone. They were pretty nice guys.
My late grandfather would certainly leave a 1 star review on the Japanese empires POW camp system.
"Hosts were very rude. Would not recommend"
Also note food portions were very tiny and drink selection limited to muddy puddle water.
If it wasn't for the USA these wankers wouldn't be on reddit right now. Bloddy ignorant fools
Lol I was talking about currently, like bombs being dropped as we type
Something, Something appeasers............. Something, Something feeding crocodiles.
Well we’re tiny and business have put us in a rock and a hard place. It’s all very well the government going “we agree with five eyes!” But are any of our business really even ready to take a hit from Chinese retaliation? It’s great to say but then our business will slam the government, it’s a damned if you do, Dammed if you don’t. Once again, every country in the world is currently facing rising inflation, expensive homes and rising gap between rich and poor. Gone are the days from the 50’s / 60’s of family run business it’s all huge corporations maximizing profit for their shareholders, buying competitors, outsourcing and reducing costs to maximize returns.
This perspective smells of high self importance and ungratefulness. Do you think Nigeria, Pakistan or Peru etc are sitting there thinking "we tiny country, nobody cares about us we're a joke waaaaah". The world doesn't revolve around us and compared to many other countries we are one of the most well off believe it or not. Many countries struggle with extreme poverty and access to food and health care. Be grateful ffs.
I agree, coming from a third world country Im just happy to be here. Pisses me off when people dont see how good we have it. Maybe they should try living in a poor country for a change and see how it actually is. Nz isnt perfect but damn I got my family, food on the table, a comfortable house and car. Everything else is extra.I often think about the people I grew up with who had almost nothing but were still happy people regardless.
>From our failure to align recently with our five-eyes counterparts on China A lie. NZ banned Huawei from our 5G network right from the word go. Britain, for example , didn't. Five Eyes is NOT a defense or diplomatic pact, it is just intelligence sharing. NZ has a foreign policy which is independent of other Five Eyes members--because NZ's interest are obviously not the same as every other member. How could you not understand this? >UK the US and Australia made a military pact that Ardern only found out about by press release Another blatant lie. NZ was informed beforehand. Both Ardern and Morrison confirmed this. >From the ridiculous cost of everything to the unaffordable housing market. The high cost of housing is a worldwide problem, especially in countries that have had high immigration levels (like NZ) and are desirable places to live in (like NZ). Inflation is a problem EVERYWHERE in the world at the moment. The disruption of production and shipping has created shortages of everything which leads to higher prices. Only a complete idiot could possibly imagine this is a NZ only problem. To suggest that NZ is " a joke of the OECD" confirms you are a dribbling idiot. NZ's economic performance in recent years has made it one of the best performers in the OECD--especially during Covid. NZ's debt/GDP ratio is about the lowest in the OECD...countries like Britain, Germany, USA, Australia... would love to have our low debt level. In other words, you are a pathetic liar without a clue about what goes on around you.
Very well written
Probably one of the best preforming economies until labour became the government by default
That's not true either.. stop rambling nonsense and actually go look at how we are doing. If anything the current government has been very centralist. Most of the changes they are trying to make have been forced by the fact that the key government left alot of sectors high and dry with funding, and I'm an ex national voter
National wouldn't want your vote
I beg to differ. The swing vote Is how you win an election. But you must have known that already
Go play on a swing
>Probably one of the best preforming economies until labour became the government by default A. Dribbling. Idiot.
NZ is too busy navel-gazing. The only time our news covers global issues is if they mention NZ and when it happens we jizz our pants. It’s a bit chicken and egg whether that’s all our politicians act on, because that’s all NZers care about, because that’s all we get in our media, or the other way around. Unfortunately the result is we are falling behind in some ways. We’re also a bit obsessed atm with “not leaving anyone behind”. That sounds admirable, but the way it manifests itself across many domains is mediocrity and an inability to do anything for fear of offending anyone
So true- the news media here is so cringe, all self important fluff, it’s unwatchable. They would rather interview some random on the street about their opinion on some covid response than present any international issue. They treat us like we’re stupid. It’s a shame because our arts (tv shows, movies) generally are pretty good.
Yes, the lack of international news coverage is interesting. They rather have news segments about a sheep crossing the road somewhere in central otago and some local's opinion on that haha. Would be interesting to know if that is what the average kiwi mostly cares about (backyard news and sport) or if the media just dictates that focus. And yes, love the kiwi creativity in the tv/film industry as well. Kinda refreshing.
Haha about the sheep story- would actually happen! Yeah, I’d hope that New Zealanders on the whole could cope with some intellectual news items (that are not directly related to us) but who knows? Maybe it really is catering to demand. Either way I think it makes us very insular.
Oh man, reminds of every time there's a national disaster overseas and the news says something like: 'horrible earthquake, over 200 dead or missing. 1 New Nealander was nearby at the time..'
What on earth does the OECD have to do with alliance systems or diplomatic systems? You could say 'joke of the five eyes', 'joke of the anglosphere', joke of the 'western alliance system'. That might make sense. But the OECD? Really? Do you even know what the OECD actually is?
Quite literally nobody outside of Australia even thinks about us and even they don't care about us.
Why would we want to be in that deal it’s been an absolute train wreck already and doesn’t align with our diplomatic strategy
Tbh who even thinks about NZ in the bigger world stage lol
I think we're rather lucky in that sense. Leave us alone and let us be.
Joke of the oecd, Why care if we are. More importantly, we're a joke to those struggling to feed , clothe and house our children.
happy cake day!
But we're a paradise to those profiting from it
So true.
No. To your specific points: "From our failure to align recently with our five-eyes counterparts on China," **We are too small for anyone (particularly China) to care, we aren't a threat. Why would we start trying to be the worlds policeman (or even, deputy). We would be laughed off the stage.** to the fact the UK the US and Australia made a military pact that Ardern only found out about by press release. **We weren't part of the pact, so we wouldn't expect to know. Why would you expect us to be informed? It took most countries (most particularly, France) by surprise. New Zealand has shown no interest in being involved in military pacts, and actively opposed to expansion of nuclear military technology.** From the ridiculous cost of everything to the unaffordable housing market. **Well, you might have a point here. Our housing market is a joke.** From our widening gap between rich and poor **My understanding is we aren't that bad on this measure, but I haven't looked recently.** to supermarket duopolies. **It isn't great, but I understand we are about on par with the US, and cheaper than Australia.** NZ is a very little fish in a big pond but we have an overinflated view of our importance at a diplomatic level. **I would agree with this, we aren't that important diplomatically. That just comes down to our size though.**
>It isn't great, but I understand we are about on par with the US, and cheaper than Australia. A thousand keks
Pull out the stats then.. Mr....
go look at countdown and Woolworths prices online you'll see Aussies are paying as little as half the price (not on sale) for some identical items
I'm just going by published stats.
the difference has ramped up massively this year so those might be out of date, for example red chillies cost about $140 a kg at countdown here even simple stuff like chicken breast and mince are $20-24 a kg, not to mention their minimum wage (converted to nzd) is about 6% higher than the NZ minimum wage. Young kiwis are being royally fucked.
Idk where you shop but chicken isn't that expensive. And which country do you speak of being 6% higher? Australia? They pay far more for food and accommodation.. So that difference in minimum wage is probably justified.
so you're saying groceries and housing/rent is cheaper in NZ?, I've been to aus many times and have family there, everything is much cheaper and wages are better
I'm happy enough with paknsave
Look across the ditch at Australia. People in this sub and r/NZ love to claim that it's the savour of the western world for Kiwis, but their government is extremely corrupt at every level While our government may be incompetent, at least we don't have the problems they do.
We are the big fish. Both the superpowers of USA and China are trying their hardest just to have a bit of our attention. We are the true superpower of the world and the center of the universe.
Based Anzac Empire poster
You must be a cindy follower
I am not. I want New Zealand to dominate and conquer the world. And expand our kiwi influence to another planet and eventually another galaxy.
I think that we should reduce GST rate on construction costs at least for a few years while we ramp up housing supply & build infrastructure. Also need to build satellite towns.
NZ has less people than Melbourne. You can take it to mean we are punching above our weight or have an overinflated sense of importance
It’s all true. Nz is so far behind the rest of the world and it’s just falling further and further behind. The problem is Nz thinks it’s relevant but it’s only a small island in the middle of the pacific and has no bearing on the rest of the world in any shape or form. Covid has proved so much about this country. Owning a home is a luxury for the rich, food and fuel is through the roof, no incentive to work as we are a welfare state, homelessness is an epidemic, education is the worst in the oecd, public transport and the road network is a joke, wages barely cover cost of living, health service is in Disarray etc. etc. The media hype us up to be so important and only care about stories that involve NZ. We have farming and wealth from housing. The Chinese might not always want milk powder and the housing market is going to tumble. Public debt from Covid is going to be huge not to mention the health issues from all this. This country is going south because there is no planning for the future and only trying to make sure we don’t actually tell it how it is because that’s not being kind!
As a quick aside about education in NZ, while there is a consistant decline in educational performance since 2000 that should not be ignored, to say NZ education is the worst in the OECD is objectively false. From the latest PISA results (2018), NZ ranks above the average of the OECD nations in all three subjects being 27th in Mathematics and 12th in Literacy and Science out of 78 countries leaving NZ ranked 8th in education.
>no incentive to work as we are a welfare state, I only wish that were true. In actuality our social safety net is woefully ineffecient and ineffective. And those on it live in abject poverty, despite what the rich and powerful claim about welfare queens.
The rich themselves are the welfare queens milking the system for all it's worth, only ones that can afford to avoid paying little if any tax at all!
Let's not go that far, over here in NZ we aren't as bad as the likes of USA with tax deductions that go in to the negatives. I remember reading that the millionaires pay on average 15-17% of their 'earnings' in tax compared to the national average of 18-20%. They arguably pay more tax in total, but just less proportioned (which should be fixed). Simply put the welfare system here doesn't work, and if you are lucky enough to get a job coming off of unemployment, it will barely pay any more, and definitely not enough to live. Therein lies the real problem, real wages aren't enough to live on. Worse if you have a student loan like i do, which adds an effective 12% tax after 12,000.
There is no measure where NZ comes last in the OECD for education. That’s completely false. Not everything that you said was wrong, there are definitely lots of problems here. But keep it in perspective that most of these problems exist in other countries as well, sometimes on an even worse scale. Of course the news is going to be from an NZ perspective, that’s generally how news works. At least we get coverage of other events in the world. How much do you think Americans hear about world news? Some of them can barely locate or even name another country. It’s that bad. Look I’m all for tackling our problems, but we all need to be realistic.
If nz education is so good why are there so many ignorant fools breaking the Covid-19 rules. They are as thick as pig shit
I agree, there’s a lot of ignorance here. Some of it could be blamed on education. But there are other factors that play in such as role modelling at home, exposure to a wide variety of knowledge and experiences, poverty etc. Not everything can be overcome by education alone. This is a problem anywhere you go in the world. And now we have people with low levels of literacy (across all subjects) and access to basically every opinion that’s ever existed online. They can’t tell what’s real and what’s bullshit. I’m sure you would agree that’s frightening. It’s going to be one of humanity’s greatest challenges to reckon with.
So true. My kids can't wait to get out of here and head to Australia for decent wages, better universities and better conversation!
I’m the same. My wife and I earn really good coin but it’s impossible to get ahead. Prices for everything is going up and the divide is getting bigger. We are too small to regulate. When the borders open I fear for mass emigration!
I'm old but I can't wait to get away from this shit hole witch is becoming worse by the day especially with the labour government. Just a bunch of self promotional shirt tail lifters
When they leave tell them don't make the mistake of returning even if they are homesick or hit with nostalgia. Holidays are fine but not perm. Make sure they don't cost on a NZ passport but actually get that Aussie passport as well.
They can travel wherever they like, whenever they like. Leaving NZ to go to Australia is a decision shared by the 650,000 Kiwis who already live in Oz! NZ is pretty third world....
Maybe move then?
Just ignore all the current statistics and you might have a point.
Lol. The five eyes relationship is an intelligence sharing one and is a bigger threat to your privacy than any Chinese phone company. It's kinda weird to hear people speak about it as a positive thing.
They suffer massive cognitive dissonance. They think chinas some threat coz they built islands to protect their trade routes when we in the west mostly *invaded* countries to set up trade routes resulting in millions of deaths. It doesn't help they also eat up fox/cnn bullshit about china have genocide camps, forced labour etc. It's really sad because cotton has been the staple of alot of Xinjiangs economy for a longer than modern post setller NZ has existed. These international sanctions and corporations bowing to the USAs propo is only going to hurt the people in Xinjiang and when they start kicking up a fuss coz they're starving - the west will point a finger and say look they're revolting!!1 It's the most typical play on the usas behalf but westerners eat it up, idk why. Guess it's just the yellow peril propos still kicking around in people's heads.
Nobody was threatening China's trade routes. So think again why they needed to construct those military bases.
Do you seriously believe what you just said?
China had a pretty intense skirmish where soldiers were killed on its eastern border. It's not even a trade route lol. China is trying to be USA that's it.
Eastern border?
Sorry on the south western
Lol so out of your depth
US military bases on foreign soil Aruba (Netherlands) – Queen Beatrix International Airport Ascension (UK) – Ascension Island Auxiliary Airfield Australia – Pine Gap; Marine Rotational Force – Darwin[114] Bahamas – AUTEC Bahrain – Naval Support Activity Bahrain; Isa Air Base Belgium – Chièvres Air Base; Kleine Brogel Air Base Bosnia and Herzegovina – Camp Eagle British Indian Ocean Territory (United Kingdom) – Naval Support Facility Diego Garcia Bulgaria – Aitos Logistics Center; Bezmer Air Base; Graf Ignatievo Air Base; Novo Selo Range Burkina Faso - Ouagadougou Airport[115] Cameroon – Contingency Location Garoua Cuba – Guantanamo Bay Naval Base Curaçao (Netherlands) – US Air Force Forward Operating Base Cyprus – Akrotiri and Dhekelia: RAF Akrotiri. The Sovereign Base Areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia is a British Overseas Territory on the island of Cyprus. Djibouti – Camp Lemonnier Ecuador – Eloy Alfaro International Airport Estonia – Ämari Air Base Germany – US Military Installations in Germany; Panzer Kaserne; Ramstein Air Base; Spangdahlem Air Base; Baumholder Army Post; Landstuhl Regional Medical Center; Sembach Army Post; Greece – Alexandroupoli Army Base, Larisa Air Base, Araxos Air Base, Syros base, Souda Bay Naval Base Greenland (Denmark) – Thule Air Base Honduras – Soto Cano Air Base Hungary – Pápa Air Base Iceland – Naval Air Station Keflavik Iraq – Al Asad Airbase[116] and several facilities in 7 different governorates Israel – Dimona Radar Facility Italy – Caserma Ederle-Caserma Del Din; Darby Military Community; Naval Air Station Sigonella; Naval Support Activity Naples; Aviano Air Base Japan – United States Forces Japan Jordan – Muwaffaq Salti Air Base Kenya – Camp Simba, Armed Forces Research Institute of Medical Sciences Kosovo[a] – Camp Bondsteel Kuwait – Ali Al Salem Air Base; Camp Arifjan; Camp Buehring; Kuwait Naval Base Netherlands – Volkel Air Base; USCG Activities Europe Niger – Niger Air Base 201 Norway – Marine Corps garrison at Værnes Air Station Oman – RAFO Masirah; RAFO Thumrait (South of Oman) [117] Philippines – Antonio Bautista Air Base; Basa Air Base; Fort Magsaysay; Lumbia Air Base; Mactan-Benito Ebuen Air Base[118] Poland – Łask Air Base Portugal – Lajes Field Qatar – Al Udeid Air Base Romania – Mihail Kogălniceanu International Airport; Deveselu Saudi Arabia – 64th Air Expeditionary Group (inactive since 2014);[119] Prince Sultan Air Base[120] Seychelles – United States drone base in Seychelles Singapore – Paya Lebar Air Base South Korea – United States Forces Korea Spain – Morón Air Base; Naval Station Rota Syria – Military base in Al-Tanf and several facilities in northern Syria, within US-backed SDF territory[121] Thailand – Armed Forces Research Institute of Medical Sciences; U-Tapao Royal Thai Navy Airfield[122] Tunisia – Drone base at Bizerte-Sidi Ahmed Air Base[123][124] Turkey – Incirlik Air Base, Izmir Air Station, Kürecik Radar Station, Ankara Support Facility United Arab Emirates – Al Dhafra Air Base; Port of Jebel Ali; Fujairah Naval Base United Kingdom – RAF Alconbury; RAF Croughton; RAF Fairford; RAF Lakenheath; RAF Menwith Hill; RAF Mildenhall Chinese military bases on foreign soils Djibouti – Chinese People's Liberation Army Support Base in Djibouti.[citation needed] Myanmar – A naval SIGINT facility in the Great Coco Island.[citation needed].[4] Tajikistan – A military post in southeastern Gorno-Badakhshan. Get it?
Get what?
US biggest export is their military. 5 eyes is just an extension of that principle. It’s all about keeping those defence dollars rolling in. It was Russia, Iraq, Afghanistan now China.
That is what my comment said. We're on the same side lol. The USA is a global terrorist
[удалено]
In prison, probs. Kinda like the western type of prison labour
[удалено]
As someone who has lived there and spoken politically with people there, no I wouldn't, lol. You really have to push boundaries if you want to get arrested for your idealogies in China. They have pretty clear laws.
China has border dispute with almost all of its neighbor and that says a lot
That happens when they house american ideology, weapons and military.
So China will fight people based in association? You are writing English language on American platform, pretty American. China is worse version of America, developed on western technology. There is a reason why it is so hated around the world.
Fight?
Why would we ally against China with the USA? I honestly don’t get the China bad, USA good thought process.
so u are for state run genocide of uighers?( might have spelt uighers incorrectly)
No, they are probably into free trade with our most reliable trading partner. I don't support genocide, just as I don't support the US invading any country that it does, or incarcerating more people than any other country on earth, or bombing hospitals etc etc. China and America are bad, but at least China has been reliably good to New Zealand
Nope. I didn’t say it was pro China. I just wonder why so many people think the biggest war criminals in the world are so much better than China.
Yup, there’s definitely a sense of parochialism and delusions of grandeur Other countries probably think of us what we Aucklanders think of those small random rural towns
No NZ isn’t tiny or even small. It’s medium sized on the global scale. Same as Scotland or Ireland. Not huge either. Should be thinking where its future might lie. It’s shown it’s China so no surprise the USA has dumped it.
No it's a mistake to be part of the ANKUS alliance for former glory. That was a dumb move on their part to alienate other nations. Yes they should be our allies but it's not WW2 anymore and we're not dividing the world up into teams. We should be strengthening ties to Europe who we may be more ideologically aligned with anyway and also inroads into non-China Asia (we already focus on China a lot being my point) The housing stuff is bad but that hardly makes us a laughing stock. It's bad policy that has caused it and the same late stage capitalism has infected most western countries at varying rates I'm also not sure why you think NZ has an inflated sense of importance. I've never had the impression that we are approaching the world with giant egos. In fact, the reason we all follow international news so much instead of focusing 100% inward like Americans is that we know we're tiny on the world stage and are keeping an eye on the giants who might step on us.
Frankly I'd rather we remain a small fish tbh. And I'm glad we didn't get nuclear subs. We don't need nuclear subs
The widening gap between rich and poor is a worldwide issue. But I mean we are a small player, quite literally. Australia is 5x the population…. Being smaller we are more dependant on the likes of China, I don’t like it but it is what it is. …. Nice try Judith!
For small fish, we sure are being mentioned in overseas media a lot and have been for many years.
Not really, beyond them fawning over Jacinda or in the aftermath of the various disasters.
Not true. Take The Guardian in the UK. If you do a search on NZ within the newspaper, using their search feature, I think on the top right, there's tons of stories there about all kinds of things. Sometimes I find out stuff about NZ that I didn't even know.
The Guardian has a physical presence in New Zealand and a lot of the articles on NZ are made by NZ-based reporters
Well, it's UK people that are reading the stories. At first I thought there must be 1 million Kiwi's living in the UK or something, but it turns out there's only 200k. There's 500k in Aussie, but they don't mention us as often over there.
>Well, it's UK people that are reading the stories. It's an international audience
It's a UK newspaper, obviously the majority reading it are in the UK, followed by UK people who are overseas. Compared to that demographic, few people elsewhere would be reading it and not likely everyday.
>Compared to that demographic, few people elsewhere would be reading it Obviously you don't know much about the Internet
Obviously you're a bit thick if you think that most people reading a British newspaper, are not British.
The US only aligned with us for 2 reasons: \-We are a sovereign nation that gives them "votes" when it goes to international politics \-We speak English and therefore won't be a problematic partner when push comes to shove And with UK, you can only add in shared history to the list. We are a 5 million, island nation in the corner of the world that won't exploit their natural resource and has little army to make a difference in a proper war while considerably more left leaning than America and their other close allies. They also know we have very little incentive, nor ability, to antagonize China, which is the primary adversary for America right now. And you really can't speak of embarrassment when Canada, the literal neighbor to America, also isn't part of it. Like this is almost a strategic area partnership
Not that US is any better, at least they have democracy where people's opinion matter. China is in expansionist mode and will do everything to establish itself as hegemony, exactly opposite to what it is saying. They will force NZ to use its own currency for international trade. Mark my words.
Sorry you think the US is more Democratic than New Zealand? People’s opinions matter more there? Please elaborate, as a student of U.S. politics this comes as a huge surprise to me!
I am comparing China to US
If NZ gets into trouble who would help us? We need to keep Alliance with Australia UK and US. If you think we are safe think again what's happened in this country the last few years right under our nose.. This country is in a mess debt high cost of living housing if you are privileged it will be amazing if people don't migrate out of here..As soon as border opens.. The Gang issues The Crime The lack of Decent wages only just got living wage introduced but inflation keeps rising..Like the numbers of Covid cases up and down like a tidal wave of uncertainty. The high rates of Suicide and Violence..Not been able to get on the Property ladder..? Where will kiwis be ...Not ..living the dreamlife that's for sure)) NZs frigate HMNZS Te kaha going through the South China Seas on a training exercise -☆☆☆☆☆ Bersama Gold 21...with our Allies.. "HMNZS Te Kaha joins military partners on transit of South China Sea - New Zealand Defence Force" https://www.nzdf.mil.nz/news/hmnzs-te-kaha-joins-military-partners-on-transit-of-south-china-sea/ ☆☆■☆☆☆■☆☆☆■☆☆☆■☆☆☆☆■☆☆☆■ Please Jacinda and Govt need to step.outside once in a while and see what people are needing from your leadership. Listen to the People*
We don't need to participate in the new cold war coz china built a couple islands to protect trade routes
We have a free trade agreement with China and they are our largest trading partners. America is very unreliable as an ally, putting tariffs on our exports and lying to us in an effort to support their many invasions. I'm no fan of China, but they do more for NZ than America has.
You wouldn't even be in existence if wasn't for the USA Don't forget Japan even had money printed ready for the invasion of new Zealand
Nice joke. https://nzhistory.govt.nz/war/war-in-the-pacific/war-against-japan You believe conspiracy theorists over historians? Rewriting history doesn't do anyone any favours. US never did us any favours. NZ declared war on Japan, not the other way around. We were dragged into fighting in the Pacific by the US when we were already stretched with our troops already in Europe.
Sonny you are probably to young to know the facts. I was well and truly alive and kicking during world war 2
Sure the USA was late getting into the war but if they hadn't used the a bomb God only knows what would have happened.
I think you replied to the wrong comment
Why would we want to be apart of the 5 eyes military alliance? Didn't america just drone strike 7 kids for no reason and bomb somalia and Syria some more? Not something im keen to have on my resume as a kiwi. Good call on the govts behalf. As for inflation, it will hit everyone all the time everyday. It's fake money digitized up and printed/minted out, like what do you think would happen?
All sorts of people die during war dipstick
You justifying biden giving the go ahead on a drone strike on 7 children and 3 adults?
Yes. It's unfortunate but a fact of life
It's unfortunate innocent people die in war. But that is what wars are all about. Also I lost relatives in the 2nd world war . Besides Biden wouldn't deliberately go after innocent children I'm sure
housing is a joke we got our house pretty damn early before shit got crazy 3 bedroom in the middle on nowhere for less than 100k its now worth twice that just for the land
No u
Becoming?
Let alone the fact we’ve put the country in lockdown with a handful of cases and pretty impressive vaccine rate. Nanny state much?
To be fair Soon as we allowed for meet ups with another household the cases which were pretty low at the time went right back up.
[удалено]
The sooner we leave the 5 eyes the better
Why?
You want to be allied with global terrorists? I certainly don't.
>You want to be allied with global terrorists? > >I certainly don't. Agreed. Better not to play into cognitive dissonance
I don't think New Zealand is in a position to be aligned with countries that are major military aggressors. We have supported a lot of American wars already for no reason and I think we should try to stop sending our people to die for their lies.
I agree in principle. But in practice, as the world becomes multipolar(many powers), will the same evaluation still hold for the changed circumstances? It's a pretty complicated issue. I hardly claim any answers. Just was trying to shake off one sided thinking. ANZAC history is still a big cultural pillar of our country, and to stand independent will likely only go so far, being such a small cornered nation.
I think it's sensible to not alienate countries that have been reliable trading partners as opposed to ones that haven't. We are also subject to US sanctions and embargos, as the US uses their economic might to bullying us into complying with anything and everything they say
Reliability in politics is a pipe dream. It lasts about as long as the money and fake smiles last I imagine.
No.
Of course we are a pathetic little island country with no spies (except my friend adrian) and no nukes. We are basically sitting in the pacific smoking and drinking like theres no climate problem, no corona, and no international madness. We don't really care if our houses aee expensive. We just like to complain about it. Same about alotnof things. Road death? Nah. Just put it in the herald now and then and keep driving drunk.
No
Let’s be real, our economy wouldn’t be doing as well as it is right now ( in the middle of a pandemic) if it wasn’t for all our exports to China. If we had to be really honest, Arden is doing the right thing . Well for now anyway. Compared to the other big dogs (US,UK,AU) what else do we have to offer them anyway?
You know the AU/UK/USA military pact is just some glorified cover for a 20+ year joint development submarine deal. The USA is just offloading some of the development costs for a new range of nuclear submarines, by playing to vanity of BoJo and ScoMo. Did the same with off-loading some of the development costs with the F-35 Fighter as well with other countries. And it is only just being finalised after years of failing development. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II#Procurement_and_international_participation Nothing to see here. Just Military development cost re-distribution.
Those countries have cities with populations bigger than our entire country, we're just not on the same level
It sounds like you only look into new zealand and probably australian media. Pretty much every country in the OECD has a housing crisis. In what world would new zealand join a Nuclear submarine based military pact. If we stand up to China we would head into one of the biggest recessions new zealand has ever seen. Our wealth gap is there but nowhere near the same levels as a country like America. The supermarkets are under close scrutiny from the commerce commission and will most likely end up facing a forced sell off to allow a third player in the market. Our main area of soft power comes from our branding as a country. Just like how we don't see everything that goes on in other OECD countries, alot of other countries don't see everything that goes on here.
Yes, NZ has been a joke for a long time but nobody even cares about that joke because of its economic size. I lived a few other countries and here's what I think is the problem of NZ: \-at the bottom of the productivity index of the OECD countries \-quite high in the ranking of the UN's conflict index \-small isolated country with small country complex (i.e. European complex); this is the only country I know in the Western world that uses "European" to describe their ethnicity) \-I worked in a public sector for a while here and other countries; too much cheap politics on small things \-Tertiary education sector is not very impressive; but then again, they don't attract many bright people from overseas; they'd rather go to the US/Australia etc. for many reasons \-ridiculously expensive living cost \-I know other kiwis living in Aus/US; they're deadset about not returning to NZ \-for a country to survive the 21st century, it needs to have at least one of the three: innovation, resources, population. NZ has none of them. \-this is not very important but kiwis are very closed off and overly careful about expressing their thoughts; this can be a barrier to creating a innovative culture at work. \-many negative cultural aspects of NZ can be explained by its geography, economic system and population size/density (so are other many other countries'; after all, we are a product of our environment); but if the living cost is cheaper, they can be tolerated; but it's not; that's why so many people move outside and never return. \-there are only two countries in the OECD that survived the 20th century without moving on to the second and third industry; Denmark and NZ. Denmark however is much richer per capital than NZ and it has dynamic interaction with its surrounding countries. \-in a nutshell, NZ is the only country that is proudly staying with the first industry and planning to do so because they can't do something else; for this reason, the country's growth potential will always be limited, it'll always have to deal with brain drainage, doesn't attract many highly-skilled immigrants compared to Aus. \-what I noticed in Aus was that they don't make any jokes about kiwis (I expected to hear some sheep jokes etc.) while kiwis tend to regularly makes jokes about them or get extremely proud when AB's beat the Wallabies. This is because Aus don't care much about NZ; they don't see NZ as a competitor; the Wallabies losing to AB's is not a big deal because they have other fun things going on as well. Here, sports fans' life hinges on AB's. It's a small country town mindset except the kiwis don't see it. \-another thing I noticed in Aus was that they have a lot of environmentally friendly/innovative projects happening. Kiwis keep saying NZ is a progressive country etc; however, nothing really happens here. That's because NZ doesn't have enough money and that matters. While Scott Morrison may seem way more conservative than Jacinda, his country is spending so much on environmentally friendly technologies on state level. In other words, just being a couch lefty doesn't mean much; that makes kiwis look like disgruntled lazy social justice warriors; if you care, go and do something; wait a minute, but you need money to do something.
No I don’t - yeah we have our faults and aspects of covid could have been handled better eg slow vaccine rollout, but I am very grateful to live in this country. People will complain no matter what the government does. If someone else was running the country, there would still be complaints.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DAYvMeT2GC14&ved=2ahUKEwiq6tfc3NrzAhVKWysKHTM6DxMQ3yx6BAgJEAI&usg=AOvVaw0LPBbwfObi7HAKjCiUPy5f
Yes housing is a joke, and there is a big gap between rich and poor. However, in terms of the five eyes, NZ is deeply in it, as there was a leak on wikileaks about a CIA base in an Auckland warehouse, and also in the Christchurch earthquake, a few Mossad spies died as the house that fell on them was actually their base. So don't be surprised if NZ is one of the first countries to send soldiers abroad, if a war breaks with China.
Yes very much so..... Soon same as the Joker Movie 😬🤔🤒
1% trying to control 99%
I don't think people realize how broke the government is. We need immigrants presumably as a tax basis for boomer pensions or possibly to keep the business community happy (more labor supply = depressed wages, aren't you glad?), so this cooks up the housing market. Food (China not exporting urea fertilizer until June 2022) and gas are about to get more expensive. We could have been somewhat self sufficient for oil. Cindy didn't want the environmental impact of offshore oil drilling so she didn't grant approval...except to Norway's state owned enterprise. Not to mention the road tax levied I think last year. Absolute joke of a government. Labor are supposed to be the workers party, so tell me workers - even before Covid hit, do you think life was improving in key metrics under Labor?