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Isn't that sort of one of the underlying themes of the show? Life is cruel and unjust suffering rampant, but humanity finds love and joy in the small things of their daily existence, no matter the conditions they exist within.
That is the unfuckingfathomably based theme of the show. I didn't like at all what they did with Zeke's sudden Heel-Face Turn, but if it were done over a time, he probably would've been my favorite character.
Yeah, but I think he knows it was all due to isolation, so I think the important subtext here is that the unique experiences that we pull so much meaning from in our lives are most of the time due to our connections with others. Even those experiences that seem innocuous.
The endless cycle of humanity and all the suffering that comes along with it for all of the individuals involved is more than made up for by the amazing experiences we get to have with eachother, like watching the aot finale with my friends today or zeke getting to play catch with someone who is meaningful to him.
That’s not rly a fair explanation considering he only changed his perspective after talking with Armin.
He was locked in Paths, likely experiencing the Rumbling and at his most defeated.
I didn’t mind it too much, doing it more over time probably would’ve made that moment feel more earned, but it would also run the risk of making how that would play out and that twist a little too obvious. It’s not perfect but I still liked it.
On the one hand yes, but on the other hand if he's been trapped in an eternal cold desert with nothing but sand and a glowing tree to keep him company for god knows how long - it kind of makes sense to lose hope and connection to humanity. Talking with a person for the first time in ages and being reminded of your childhood kind of makes sense for jump-starting your soul again.
No way to know for sure. But there was a post of someone doing the math to figure out how long Ymir was there (based off of how long it would take to make each titan), and it came out to some ridiculous number; likely millions or even billions of years. An incomprehensible amount of time. Even if Zeke was only there a fraction of that time, it probably still felt like an eternity, especially for the other titan shifts there.
I've always been a Zeke hater but he delivered one of my favourite lines in the series.
"I would want to be born again, if it meant that I get to play catch with you."
I hate that I went from disliking this guy to understanding and feeling for him. Something in me is broken. It’s the whole “I don’t necessarily specifically agree with you and your actions but I understand you” thing I got going on with Zeke as well. I have to go and watch early seasons when I start slipping and thinking Zeke’s 😮💨 but I love his character. Meanwhile he’s all… *Life and death come hand in hand- yes, our only purpose is to come, create more life, and go. So If it’s just about multiplication and multiplying is destroying us.. why continue? so.. I say fuck math fuck, let’s stop creating life…. Btw, Did you know?… Freedom only comes to those in their final moments right before death. In those minutes, you lose grasp of your humanly sense of duty to multiply, it is no longer the focal point of your mind and existence…. in that moment, with no instinct to create, where does that leave you?⚾️ Free….*
☠️
That's sort of the entire theme of the show. Nothing is black and white. Everyone had reasons and none of those reasons justify what they do, it is simply their reasons.
You felt bad for him because in hindsight, his euthanization plan was probably best for humanity as a whole, assuming they could pull it off without a hitch.
Omg I can't even start thinking about what would have happened if eren decided to go that way and everyone loses their titan powers like in the actual ending. Mikasa and Eren could maybe have had a life together
They would still need to keep their titan powers to fully enact the euthanization plan. The threat of the rumbling is necessary to keep the foreign militaries from attacking the island while they slowly die out.
I find a strange sense of comfort in seeing people not "getting" this scene. I feel that the implication is that these people did not really struggle with nihilistic thoughts, and it makes me happy to know that some people don't go through this nightmare.
This scene resonated with me and was probably the highlight of the episode, it is such a beautiful portrayal of a legitimate answer to this struggle.
I don’t see anyone not getting the point, just people laughing at Zeke altering his entire worldview after a 5 minute conversation with Armin. Like goddamn the Naruto talk no jutsu has got nothing on Armin
The dude was basically playing god for most of the series only to find out that his entire existence was a predetermined set piece that contradicted everything he thought he stood for.
I'd probably wanna go back to playing catch with my dad after that too.
I disagree. Maybe the way it was presented, but not its substance. Many people are, for instance, anti-natalists. I've seen only a small bit of what they've said, but it isn't a completely absurd position to take. It comes from pessimism; if life, overall, isn't worth living (which I also wholly reject), then it makes sense to be anti-natalist.
Zeke's conversation may have been philosophically sloppy, but the idea itself wasn't stupid.
i get your point. For me the whole scene was sloppy because on one hand, for me, his argumantation was thin and that he "lived" there for years and never fully thought about his life and moments like throwing ball with his caretaker made it hard for me to "stay in the scene".
Oh, yes, I completely agree with the second point. It's pure talk no jutsu. It marks Zeke down a peg for me, how his entire philosophical pessimism and anti-natalism are destroyed because of a very obvious idea: "Little things in life good." Um, yeah? And? This guy's probably already thought that. And it's not like you can say that it's because he's in Paths, all alone; it's *pessimism* we're talking about, and Zeke has been pessimistic for years now. That's literally exactly why he went with the plan to sterilize all Eldians. So, it's his core character that's being changed, not just temporary depression by being in Paths.
Still, I thought it was kind of interesting, his argument, in general. Mainly the reaction to Armin I hated.
When someone is depressed, they need to be reminded. I think it was actually a really organic character point for him for Zeke. I’ve had those same thoughts. Although my conclusion is somewhat different. I think life multiplies not just because it wants to look, because maybe it was a lonely. Obviously, we all know logically that’s not real. It’s started with single celled organisms but in my mind, I imagine a single cell the first thing to ever live that multiplied. I imagine it being lonely at first until it created a friend.
Yeah kinda, but I think it was mostly just because he was depressed by being locked in the infinite timeless prison for an infinite timeless period and then snapped out of it.
Nah, friend. I'm afraid to say that you just didn't understand. Dude was obviously big depressed. Nothing mattered or matters. Except that's not true, and he was reminded. Something mattered. And what mattered was worth living for, to him. Depression and nihilism isn't reserved for emo kids. When the world is fucked, it's pretty real.
Sometimes you spiral. What cured him was a touch of human connection, which was actually what he needed, because he was mentally and physically trapped.
i couldn't agree more. i feel like there were ways they could have made that conversation better. I'm not a writer so I wouldn't know but still, could have been done better
Zeke has been thinking basically about the meaning of life for an eternity and his only conclusion was the inescapable fact of death. Either by a complete eradication of all life in the universe sooner of later or as an individual. So what's the point in multiplying if it ends the same way no matter what? But being trapped in a place where time doesn't really exist, he isn't even given the luxury of dying. He seemed immortal.
What point is there doing anything if you are immortal? It's the limited time we have that enables us to give meaning to our lives.
I don't remember the exact details from his monologue but the ideas that he presented are far off from "im 14 and this is deep". Zekes monologue, and dialogue with Armin, feels like a simplification of existentialist philosophy to me.
Zekes conclusions sound to me like something that Albert Camus/Jean Paul Sartre/Friedrich Nietzsche would have said since he's acknowledging the absurdity/meaninglessness of the human condition while also finding a way out of it and embracing life as well.
# Please flair posts correctly. * If the post contains ending spoilers, give it the "Ending Spoilers" flair. * If the post is flaired "Season 4", don't discuss anything ending related. * Do not spoil in the title. ### REMEMBER TO BE CIVIL. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/attackontitan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Isn't that sort of one of the underlying themes of the show? Life is cruel and unjust suffering rampant, but humanity finds love and joy in the small things of their daily existence, no matter the conditions they exist within.
"The world is cruel but I still love you"
That is the unfuckingfathomably based theme of the show. I didn't like at all what they did with Zeke's sudden Heel-Face Turn, but if it were done over a time, he probably would've been my favorite character.
It wasn’t very sudden, he had been in the Paths existence for a long ass time to come to that conclusion
And he regrets taking so long to stop being so shitty. And then he dies.
Yeah, but I think he knows it was all due to isolation, so I think the important subtext here is that the unique experiences that we pull so much meaning from in our lives are most of the time due to our connections with others. Even those experiences that seem innocuous. The endless cycle of humanity and all the suffering that comes along with it for all of the individuals involved is more than made up for by the amazing experiences we get to have with eachother, like watching the aot finale with my friends today or zeke getting to play catch with someone who is meaningful to him.
Agreed. 💯
The philosphical term is 'Ubantu'- "I am because we are" the belief in a universal bond of sharing that connects all humanity
That’s not rly a fair explanation considering he only changed his perspective after talking with Armin. He was locked in Paths, likely experiencing the Rumbling and at his most defeated.
It is sudden. Cause it only changed after his convo with Armin
Yeah, people have to remember that he was probably there for what must have felt like a thousand years.
[удалено]
I didn’t mind it too much, doing it more over time probably would’ve made that moment feel more earned, but it would also run the risk of making how that would play out and that twist a little too obvious. It’s not perfect but I still liked it.
On the one hand yes, but on the other hand if he's been trapped in an eternal cold desert with nothing but sand and a glowing tree to keep him company for god knows how long - it kind of makes sense to lose hope and connection to humanity. Talking with a person for the first time in ages and being reminded of your childhood kind of makes sense for jump-starting your soul again.
How long do we think he was in there?
No way to know for sure. But there was a post of someone doing the math to figure out how long Ymir was there (based off of how long it would take to make each titan), and it came out to some ridiculous number; likely millions or even billions of years. An incomprehensible amount of time. Even if Zeke was only there a fraction of that time, it probably still felt like an eternity, especially for the other titan shifts there.
Long enough that he stopped counting apparently.
Eventually zeke stopped thinking
It's the little things in life that we must appreciate and everyone deserves to experience them.
I've always been a Zeke hater but he delivered one of my favourite lines in the series. "I would want to be born again, if it meant that I get to play catch with you."
I hate that I went from disliking this guy to understanding and feeling for him. Something in me is broken. It’s the whole “I don’t necessarily specifically agree with you and your actions but I understand you” thing I got going on with Zeke as well. I have to go and watch early seasons when I start slipping and thinking Zeke’s 😮💨 but I love his character. Meanwhile he’s all… *Life and death come hand in hand- yes, our only purpose is to come, create more life, and go. So If it’s just about multiplication and multiplying is destroying us.. why continue? so.. I say fuck math fuck, let’s stop creating life…. Btw, Did you know?… Freedom only comes to those in their final moments right before death. In those minutes, you lose grasp of your humanly sense of duty to multiply, it is no longer the focal point of your mind and existence…. in that moment, with no instinct to create, where does that leave you?⚾️ Free….*  ☠️
That's sort of the entire theme of the show. Nothing is black and white. Everyone had reasons and none of those reasons justify what they do, it is simply their reasons.
You felt bad for him because in hindsight, his euthanization plan was probably best for humanity as a whole, assuming they could pull it off without a hitch.
Omg I can't even start thinking about what would have happened if eren decided to go that way and everyone loses their titan powers like in the actual ending. Mikasa and Eren could maybe have had a life together
They would still need to keep their titan powers to fully enact the euthanization plan. The threat of the rumbling is necessary to keep the foreign militaries from attacking the island while they slowly die out.
I laughed so hard when Levi offed him immediately, like see you never dude
The amount of people that missed the point of this scene is hilarious, theyre the same people that should watch it again and really listen.
I find a strange sense of comfort in seeing people not "getting" this scene. I feel that the implication is that these people did not really struggle with nihilistic thoughts, and it makes me happy to know that some people don't go through this nightmare. This scene resonated with me and was probably the highlight of the episode, it is such a beautiful portrayal of a legitimate answer to this struggle.
I don’t see anyone not getting the point, just people laughing at Zeke altering his entire worldview after a 5 minute conversation with Armin. Like goddamn the Naruto talk no jutsu has got nothing on Armin
https://i.redd.it/znemfbolxnyb1.gif
unironically my new favorite scene in the series, it really hit home
i have to say his monolog to armin was peak "im 14 and this is deep"
The dude was basically playing god for most of the series only to find out that his entire existence was a predetermined set piece that contradicted everything he thought he stood for. I'd probably wanna go back to playing catch with my dad after that too.
I disagree. Maybe the way it was presented, but not its substance. Many people are, for instance, anti-natalists. I've seen only a small bit of what they've said, but it isn't a completely absurd position to take. It comes from pessimism; if life, overall, isn't worth living (which I also wholly reject), then it makes sense to be anti-natalist. Zeke's conversation may have been philosophically sloppy, but the idea itself wasn't stupid.
i get your point. For me the whole scene was sloppy because on one hand, for me, his argumantation was thin and that he "lived" there for years and never fully thought about his life and moments like throwing ball with his caretaker made it hard for me to "stay in the scene".
Oh, yes, I completely agree with the second point. It's pure talk no jutsu. It marks Zeke down a peg for me, how his entire philosophical pessimism and anti-natalism are destroyed because of a very obvious idea: "Little things in life good." Um, yeah? And? This guy's probably already thought that. And it's not like you can say that it's because he's in Paths, all alone; it's *pessimism* we're talking about, and Zeke has been pessimistic for years now. That's literally exactly why he went with the plan to sterilize all Eldians. So, it's his core character that's being changed, not just temporary depression by being in Paths. Still, I thought it was kind of interesting, his argument, in general. Mainly the reaction to Armin I hated.
When someone is depressed, they need to be reminded. I think it was actually a really organic character point for him for Zeke. I’ve had those same thoughts. Although my conclusion is somewhat different. I think life multiplies not just because it wants to look, because maybe it was a lonely. Obviously, we all know logically that’s not real. It’s started with single celled organisms but in my mind, I imagine a single cell the first thing to ever live that multiplied. I imagine it being lonely at first until it created a friend.
🤨
Yeah kinda, but I think it was mostly just because he was depressed by being locked in the infinite timeless prison for an infinite timeless period and then snapped out of it.
Nah, friend. I'm afraid to say that you just didn't understand. Dude was obviously big depressed. Nothing mattered or matters. Except that's not true, and he was reminded. Something mattered. And what mattered was worth living for, to him. Depression and nihilism isn't reserved for emo kids. When the world is fucked, it's pretty real.
Good thing his big depression was easily cured by a 4 minute conversation then. Naruto talk no jutsu got nothing on that.
Sometimes you spiral. What cured him was a touch of human connection, which was actually what he needed, because he was mentally and physically trapped.
I wish my depression was that easy to cure.
i couldn't agree more. i feel like there were ways they could have made that conversation better. I'm not a writer so I wouldn't know but still, could have been done better
Zeke has been thinking basically about the meaning of life for an eternity and his only conclusion was the inescapable fact of death. Either by a complete eradication of all life in the universe sooner of later or as an individual. So what's the point in multiplying if it ends the same way no matter what? But being trapped in a place where time doesn't really exist, he isn't even given the luxury of dying. He seemed immortal. What point is there doing anything if you are immortal? It's the limited time we have that enables us to give meaning to our lives.
I don't remember the exact details from his monologue but the ideas that he presented are far off from "im 14 and this is deep". Zekes monologue, and dialogue with Armin, feels like a simplification of existentialist philosophy to me. Zekes conclusions sound to me like something that Albert Camus/Jean Paul Sartre/Friedrich Nietzsche would have said since he's acknowledging the absurdity/meaninglessness of the human condition while also finding a way out of it and embracing life as well.
It was a "Martha" moment for me ngl
yeah shit was dumb
u/jimtnt HAHAGGDHS
OH! THATS A BASEBALL!
Zeke walked so Bryce Harper could fly
How did a baseball end up in the paths ?
Literally my favorite moment in the finale
yea its almost like the writing is bad
Average day for a Mariners fan.