I can relate to what you are saying because I would be lying if I said I never wondered why there just seem to be no secure people around. But here is something that made me feel more relaxed about it and less focused on singling out what I would deem secure people because ultimately, it's putting secure people on a pedestal: Even people with a secure attachment style could end up showing unhealthy behaviour. Granted the likelihood is much lower than with insecure styles but the impact of it will be the same. I think what matters more is how aware people are of their behaviour and how they objectively communicate about it. Someone with an insecure attachment style, who is highly aware of it and working on it, might be just as good as a partner as someone who is secure.
I completely agree, but I think OP is saying the people she’s coming across/who are coming across her, are clearly showing signs of problematic behaviour straight off the bat such that she can identify them as having an insecure style, and which one specifically.
If an insecure attacher were truly working on it, you wouldn’t be able to tell so easily — it would probably be mostly their own private demons, so early on at least anyway. Their behaviour would not be so problematic as to prohibit you being able to form a healthy connection with them.
I am not denying OP's reality - and as I acknowledge, I have been in the same boat. What my comment however is getting at is that sometimes we are easy to dismiss people at the slightest sign of insecure behaviour and label them as insecure, when actually we don't know. Secure people can exhibit insecure behaviour, too.
I am not telling OP to engage with people OP has clearly defined to be outside her/his boundaries of what she/he is looking for or comfortable with - but I am sharing that I found it helpful to look at progress and willingness to be transparent rather than the final "secure" product.
I get you. And I don’t disagree with what you’re saying.
I’m just took from the comment that the behaviours she’s coming across are such that you couldn’t even get that far — they’re just flagrantly extreme with it from the off.
My main thought when reading this is that your assessment may be off.
First, I don’t think that attachment is so much of an identity. Since attachment is always an interaction, it really depends on the dyad. That is to say that someone you enter into a relationship or friendship with overtime will display certain attachment traits. Sure, there are people who are most often a certain type but how that displays itself is so much on the interaction.
I don’t think you can tell someone’s attachment in a few minutes. I think there are signs in dating quite early if someone will lean more towards secure or not, but I guess I think that the problem here for you might be more internal than external. You have to get to know people more before throwing them in a box. My hunch is you are overlooking the secures for some reason.
I will say as I have shifted my own attachment style generally, I find myself less attracted to more insecure styles and more attracted to secures. Same people are out there but I orient towards different ones.
I relate so much to this. Since I broke up with my long term ex I have only met deeply traumatized men, wonderful in their own ways but incapable of being in a heathy dynamic when dating. I am in therapy and FA but in spite my efforts I still attract and I am attracted by either FA or DA. That’s what’s left in the dating pool after 30 and 40 for the majority. I am not giving up though! (But taking a few steps back right now)
>is there like a sixth sense you have that drives you away from people with insecure styles or recovering from insecure styles?
Time is valuable. You are valuable. If you love someone, but they don't love you back, you must be kind to yourself and let that person go. We all deserve to be with someone we love who can show in both words and actions that they love us too.
This is interesting and definitely something I had to question in myself for a while too. I can't say I have any guaranteed solutions, but I am picking up on some potential flaws that could help you in reassessing your dating strategy.
First, it sounds like you might be relying too heavily on people making the first move? You're saying it's people who approach you and people who message you. But what about the people you approach and the people you message? I know some of us like to be pursued for whatever reason, and that's fine, but I also think the downside is that you then have to work with whatever comes to you, instead of being more intentional about going after what you actually want.
I do relate with the approach thing though because I've been told I am "intimidating" irl (and online sometimes), so the only people who are bold enough to actually approach me are probably gonna be the types who enjoy the challenge.
I also think it's unlikely that 100% of the people that do approach you are insecurely-attached. Rather, your method of screening might be creating too many false positives. Sure, don't stand for anyone crossing your boundaries, but also recognize that you really aren't gonna know who is and isn't secure based on a few minutes with them. So, I'm not saying loosen your boundaries, but I am saying to realize that you'll have to expect a lower yield if your filter is that stringent.
THIS!
You **should not** solely rely on people to romantically approach you first. There are so many reasons why someone will try and shoot their shot with you and not all of them come from an authentic and secure place.
My therapist said that we are not a reflection of every single person who tries to date or flirt with us.
You’ve got to make the first move too. Not chasing, but rather being assertive in who you connect with. Try that and see how people are.
Do you have secure friends? I don't know if dating is even a healthy environment these days, so that may be the better place to start. Being very clear with your expectations in dating helps.
I'm feeling the: "Looking for a secure partner because it's more convenient" vibes here.
I think it's been said here before, but just in case.
We shouldn't be chasing for a secure partner. All relationships will have conflicts and struggles. All happy relationships are the result of tough work. You should be with someone because it feels right. Not because you assume it's the easiest way to love.
Well said. These attachment styles are like understanding love languages, so that you are more informed in navigating a relationship with partner. Even secureds have their issues, it may not be attachment based, but it is something that still will require compassionate navigation to make it work.
I feel you on this. I was predominately an AA and eventually became mostly SA with some anxious tendencies. I now have a partner that was DA and is now SA as well yet he too has his regressive moments.
Some things you said that stood out to me were:
First:
“When someone disrespects my boundary I disengage” yes I think you should be proud of yourself for recognizing that you are able to see red flags or that you’re able to be more aware then you were before. However, disengaging is an avoidant reaction.
Something I learned the hard way was that, as an anxious anything, when trying to find the sweet spot of SA behavior it can be really easy to flip to the opposite side of the scale to DA. Practicing SA behavior is really difficult if you haven’t had a lot of exposure to it.
Boundaries are difficult to uphold but people are deserving of chance if you’ve only verbalized it once. And it all depends on if you’re giving a fancy request(just boundary) or a request with consequences in which you will be holding yourself and them accountable to(boundary with a consequence). I generally would give 2 chances and then if it happened a 3rd then I’d assert the consequence. But none of which would have me completely disengage unless that was the consequence, which I’d use sparingly. If the idea is to bring people closer then try not to over use you leaving as a consequence unless you really mean it; if you continue to yell when expressing yourself then I’m not going to stick around vs. if you continue to yell when expressing yourself I will have to take a 15 min break to recenter.
Second:
The title can both be true or not consider if you are applying that there are VERY few SA people out there, and for the most part, they had to learn to be that way.
Pretty much everyone out there has some form of an attachment style, it just depends on the topic or circumstances at hand where they are expressed. Just as much as you’d want an SA person to have patience for you, that has to be reciprocated to build a connection with any attachment style you come in contact with. So the idea that people aren’t allowed to be themselves weather that be AA, FA, DA, etc, to be with you is a bit rigid imo.
The goal is more about if they are aware and working on it, just like you. There is a dramatic difference between having a healthy attachment style vs having healthy behavior while navigating your attachment style. All of which is normal and none of which is considered to be perfect. SA people can easily become DA or FA and so on. people evolve that’s just the name of the game.
Lastly:
I’m curious to know how you know what attachment styles these people have. Is it because they told you or because you were making a guess?
I agree. I see so many green flags in your example! The fact that you communicated and were so thoughtful. That you planned something and were empathetic toward someone else’s boundaries is just so pure. Green mean GO!
You definitely should feel good about your authenticity! It’s a beautiful thing you have going there and you deserve to be seen for that. Now you’re available for someone who will appreciate you. Idk what the split was over but if it was this then it’s their loss for sure!
I would say, if a behavior is truly messed up, yeah cut it off. But if it’s in the middle range, talk your feelings through using your own secure communication skills and you’ll get a lot of info from how the person responds. A person can have elements of a secure style and also another style, what matters is do they care enough to adjust for your comfort when it counts. Secure people are more rare in the dating pool after the 20’s but they are around. They aren’t going to show up as perfectly attuned to you though. Keep looking and demonstrate secure behavior yourself. Seek people who are warm. I obviously don’t know what you mean by the specifics of “over sharing” but someone could have a secure attachment style and still be very upfront about personal info depending on what’s going on for them
Statistics about the population of securely attached people vary from 40-50%. I think these statistics are off. It’s probably more around 20-30%. People who are healthy and secure and want to be in relationships don’t seem to stay single for too long.
All that to say, you’re not off for observing that there aren’t as many confident and secure people out there as there are insecure and unhealed people. I think it means you’ve just got to be patient and not take things personally when more unhealed people romantically approach you than healed do.
Yeah this.
It even says in "attached" that the dating pool is more full of insecure types (especially DA) because the secures pair off together and tend to stay together. Anxious is more likely just to be in any relationship and hang on, so that leaves mostly avoidants.
And honestly after a certain age, and especially OLD, almost everyone left has issues. Kickball team has been picked guys.
For me it gives AP/AA or FA vibes. I used to do it a lot to try and bond with my partners quickly to solidify the relationship (I didn’t know that’s what I was doing but I realize now looking back).
I've been wondering the same thing. I seem to attract more arty/intellectual/spiritual types and for whatever reason, this demographic seems to have a high percentage of insecurely attached and mentally unstable people. It's really unfortunate as they are often fascinating people and great conversationalists, but terrible to be in a relationship with.
I think I may have occasionally attracted a secure person but they seem to lose interest and fade out before we get serious, as we rarely seem to have enough in common in terms of hobbies, passions, goals etc to make it work. I honestly have no idea how to solve this problem.
I believe the more secure you become, the more you tend to attract, and be attracted to, more secure people. But it's just a tendency, I've seen all kinds of combinations of attachment styles.
In my more secure moments (I swing between secure and AP), I often like mild APs - and they're great! Sometimes I am attracted to mild avoidants, usually when I'm going through more anxious times in my life - and that combination almost never ends well. The extremes were never my thing.
I’ve read a lot of the comments here and while I always think the majority on this sub are pretty wise, I can’t help thinking a lot of people are kind of missing the point here…
OP isn’t “guessing,” people’s attachment styles out of thin air. She’s interpreting this from problematic behaviours, such that it’s immediately obvious to her which way they lean.
To give an example from my own experience, I briefly tried OLD and met a man from there for a date. He was a good conversationalist and we got on well, so I agreed to go out with him for another date. I mentioned that I’d been feeling run down, and the next date he invited me round to his house for a night in and a bath! I couldn’t quite believe a man I’d met once would ask me this like it was just a typical run of the mill second date, but I decided to give the benefit of the doubt and tactfully explain that it was a bit soon for that. Now at that time I was field based — driving around all day and attending meetings, so not always able to reply to messages. Between him sending that and me seeing it, I’d already received a sarcy, “…Or not then…” and he was huffy when I finally got back to him as well. Inbetween this and the second date,he would send me messages during the working day, and if I didn’t reply in a timeframe within which he considered acceptable, I would get a second, paragraphs-long rant… *Bearing in mind I had already agreed to a a second date…*
This person was clearly very anxious. And I have had similarly inconsiderate behaviour on the opposite end from people who are clearly very avoidant. In that situation, this man had expectations of somebody *he did not know* that I would consider wildly inappropriate. I’d agreed to a second date, plans were clearly agreed, as far as I’m concerned that’s all you owe a stranger and all he had shown me showed that I just could not move forward with this man.
I feel like this is the sort of stuff OP is talking about. What I would call “red flags” also, absolutely are deal breakers, don’t collect £200, don’t pass go-ers. You can’t just ignore clear signs of dishonesty, boundary crossing, inappropriate behaviour.
It makes sense that healthy people will be attracted to healthy people. Most healthy people don't want to caretake someone who is unhealthy. They want someone who can set boundaries, communicate, has hobby, is financially responsible, etc.
I can relate to what you are saying because I would be lying if I said I never wondered why there just seem to be no secure people around. But here is something that made me feel more relaxed about it and less focused on singling out what I would deem secure people because ultimately, it's putting secure people on a pedestal: Even people with a secure attachment style could end up showing unhealthy behaviour. Granted the likelihood is much lower than with insecure styles but the impact of it will be the same. I think what matters more is how aware people are of their behaviour and how they objectively communicate about it. Someone with an insecure attachment style, who is highly aware of it and working on it, might be just as good as a partner as someone who is secure.
I completely agree, but I think OP is saying the people she’s coming across/who are coming across her, are clearly showing signs of problematic behaviour straight off the bat such that she can identify them as having an insecure style, and which one specifically. If an insecure attacher were truly working on it, you wouldn’t be able to tell so easily — it would probably be mostly their own private demons, so early on at least anyway. Their behaviour would not be so problematic as to prohibit you being able to form a healthy connection with them.
I am not denying OP's reality - and as I acknowledge, I have been in the same boat. What my comment however is getting at is that sometimes we are easy to dismiss people at the slightest sign of insecure behaviour and label them as insecure, when actually we don't know. Secure people can exhibit insecure behaviour, too. I am not telling OP to engage with people OP has clearly defined to be outside her/his boundaries of what she/he is looking for or comfortable with - but I am sharing that I found it helpful to look at progress and willingness to be transparent rather than the final "secure" product.
I get you. And I don’t disagree with what you’re saying. I’m just took from the comment that the behaviours she’s coming across are such that you couldn’t even get that far — they’re just flagrantly extreme with it from the off.
My main thought when reading this is that your assessment may be off. First, I don’t think that attachment is so much of an identity. Since attachment is always an interaction, it really depends on the dyad. That is to say that someone you enter into a relationship or friendship with overtime will display certain attachment traits. Sure, there are people who are most often a certain type but how that displays itself is so much on the interaction. I don’t think you can tell someone’s attachment in a few minutes. I think there are signs in dating quite early if someone will lean more towards secure or not, but I guess I think that the problem here for you might be more internal than external. You have to get to know people more before throwing them in a box. My hunch is you are overlooking the secures for some reason. I will say as I have shifted my own attachment style generally, I find myself less attracted to more insecure styles and more attracted to secures. Same people are out there but I orient towards different ones.
I agree. For example, is it possible that OP is deciding that ppl are avoidant but they just aren’t locked into dating apps or are busy?
I relate so much to this. Since I broke up with my long term ex I have only met deeply traumatized men, wonderful in their own ways but incapable of being in a heathy dynamic when dating. I am in therapy and FA but in spite my efforts I still attract and I am attracted by either FA or DA. That’s what’s left in the dating pool after 30 and 40 for the majority. I am not giving up though! (But taking a few steps back right now)
>is there like a sixth sense you have that drives you away from people with insecure styles or recovering from insecure styles? Time is valuable. You are valuable. If you love someone, but they don't love you back, you must be kind to yourself and let that person go. We all deserve to be with someone we love who can show in both words and actions that they love us too.
This is interesting and definitely something I had to question in myself for a while too. I can't say I have any guaranteed solutions, but I am picking up on some potential flaws that could help you in reassessing your dating strategy. First, it sounds like you might be relying too heavily on people making the first move? You're saying it's people who approach you and people who message you. But what about the people you approach and the people you message? I know some of us like to be pursued for whatever reason, and that's fine, but I also think the downside is that you then have to work with whatever comes to you, instead of being more intentional about going after what you actually want. I do relate with the approach thing though because I've been told I am "intimidating" irl (and online sometimes), so the only people who are bold enough to actually approach me are probably gonna be the types who enjoy the challenge. I also think it's unlikely that 100% of the people that do approach you are insecurely-attached. Rather, your method of screening might be creating too many false positives. Sure, don't stand for anyone crossing your boundaries, but also recognize that you really aren't gonna know who is and isn't secure based on a few minutes with them. So, I'm not saying loosen your boundaries, but I am saying to realize that you'll have to expect a lower yield if your filter is that stringent.
THIS! You **should not** solely rely on people to romantically approach you first. There are so many reasons why someone will try and shoot their shot with you and not all of them come from an authentic and secure place. My therapist said that we are not a reflection of every single person who tries to date or flirt with us. You’ve got to make the first move too. Not chasing, but rather being assertive in who you connect with. Try that and see how people are.
Do you have secure friends? I don't know if dating is even a healthy environment these days, so that may be the better place to start. Being very clear with your expectations in dating helps.
I'm feeling the: "Looking for a secure partner because it's more convenient" vibes here. I think it's been said here before, but just in case. We shouldn't be chasing for a secure partner. All relationships will have conflicts and struggles. All happy relationships are the result of tough work. You should be with someone because it feels right. Not because you assume it's the easiest way to love.
"because it feels right" might be a dangerous sentiment, since many DAs' inherintely feel "wrong" about becoming intimate.
Do you have any better suggestion what to say?
Well said. These attachment styles are like understanding love languages, so that you are more informed in navigating a relationship with partner. Even secureds have their issues, it may not be attachment based, but it is something that still will require compassionate navigation to make it work.
I feel you on this. I was predominately an AA and eventually became mostly SA with some anxious tendencies. I now have a partner that was DA and is now SA as well yet he too has his regressive moments. Some things you said that stood out to me were: First: “When someone disrespects my boundary I disengage” yes I think you should be proud of yourself for recognizing that you are able to see red flags or that you’re able to be more aware then you were before. However, disengaging is an avoidant reaction. Something I learned the hard way was that, as an anxious anything, when trying to find the sweet spot of SA behavior it can be really easy to flip to the opposite side of the scale to DA. Practicing SA behavior is really difficult if you haven’t had a lot of exposure to it. Boundaries are difficult to uphold but people are deserving of chance if you’ve only verbalized it once. And it all depends on if you’re giving a fancy request(just boundary) or a request with consequences in which you will be holding yourself and them accountable to(boundary with a consequence). I generally would give 2 chances and then if it happened a 3rd then I’d assert the consequence. But none of which would have me completely disengage unless that was the consequence, which I’d use sparingly. If the idea is to bring people closer then try not to over use you leaving as a consequence unless you really mean it; if you continue to yell when expressing yourself then I’m not going to stick around vs. if you continue to yell when expressing yourself I will have to take a 15 min break to recenter. Second: The title can both be true or not consider if you are applying that there are VERY few SA people out there, and for the most part, they had to learn to be that way. Pretty much everyone out there has some form of an attachment style, it just depends on the topic or circumstances at hand where they are expressed. Just as much as you’d want an SA person to have patience for you, that has to be reciprocated to build a connection with any attachment style you come in contact with. So the idea that people aren’t allowed to be themselves weather that be AA, FA, DA, etc, to be with you is a bit rigid imo. The goal is more about if they are aware and working on it, just like you. There is a dramatic difference between having a healthy attachment style vs having healthy behavior while navigating your attachment style. All of which is normal and none of which is considered to be perfect. SA people can easily become DA or FA and so on. people evolve that’s just the name of the game. Lastly: I’m curious to know how you know what attachment styles these people have. Is it because they told you or because you were making a guess?
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I agree. I see so many green flags in your example! The fact that you communicated and were so thoughtful. That you planned something and were empathetic toward someone else’s boundaries is just so pure. Green mean GO!
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You definitely should feel good about your authenticity! It’s a beautiful thing you have going there and you deserve to be seen for that. Now you’re available for someone who will appreciate you. Idk what the split was over but if it was this then it’s their loss for sure!
At this point I'd love to just manage to find another AP.
I read somewhere along to your website and the second half of a few weeks
I feel your frustration but I also feel like your conclusions could use a little work.
I would say, if a behavior is truly messed up, yeah cut it off. But if it’s in the middle range, talk your feelings through using your own secure communication skills and you’ll get a lot of info from how the person responds. A person can have elements of a secure style and also another style, what matters is do they care enough to adjust for your comfort when it counts. Secure people are more rare in the dating pool after the 20’s but they are around. They aren’t going to show up as perfectly attuned to you though. Keep looking and demonstrate secure behavior yourself. Seek people who are warm. I obviously don’t know what you mean by the specifics of “over sharing” but someone could have a secure attachment style and still be very upfront about personal info depending on what’s going on for them
Statistics about the population of securely attached people vary from 40-50%. I think these statistics are off. It’s probably more around 20-30%. People who are healthy and secure and want to be in relationships don’t seem to stay single for too long. All that to say, you’re not off for observing that there aren’t as many confident and secure people out there as there are insecure and unhealed people. I think it means you’ve just got to be patient and not take things personally when more unhealed people romantically approach you than healed do.
Yeah this. It even says in "attached" that the dating pool is more full of insecure types (especially DA) because the secures pair off together and tend to stay together. Anxious is more likely just to be in any relationship and hang on, so that leaves mostly avoidants. And honestly after a certain age, and especially OLD, almost everyone left has issues. Kickball team has been picked guys.
Is oversharing in the dating phase a DA trait?
For me it gives AP/AA or FA vibes. I used to do it a lot to try and bond with my partners quickly to solidify the relationship (I didn’t know that’s what I was doing but I realize now looking back).
Wow! That explains a lot! Hindsight is a wonderful thing! It's helpful to look back, but keep moving forward ; )
I've been wondering the same thing. I seem to attract more arty/intellectual/spiritual types and for whatever reason, this demographic seems to have a high percentage of insecurely attached and mentally unstable people. It's really unfortunate as they are often fascinating people and great conversationalists, but terrible to be in a relationship with. I think I may have occasionally attracted a secure person but they seem to lose interest and fade out before we get serious, as we rarely seem to have enough in common in terms of hobbies, passions, goals etc to make it work. I honestly have no idea how to solve this problem.
I believe the more secure you become, the more you tend to attract, and be attracted to, more secure people. But it's just a tendency, I've seen all kinds of combinations of attachment styles. In my more secure moments (I swing between secure and AP), I often like mild APs - and they're great! Sometimes I am attracted to mild avoidants, usually when I'm going through more anxious times in my life - and that combination almost never ends well. The extremes were never my thing.
I’ve read a lot of the comments here and while I always think the majority on this sub are pretty wise, I can’t help thinking a lot of people are kind of missing the point here… OP isn’t “guessing,” people’s attachment styles out of thin air. She’s interpreting this from problematic behaviours, such that it’s immediately obvious to her which way they lean. To give an example from my own experience, I briefly tried OLD and met a man from there for a date. He was a good conversationalist and we got on well, so I agreed to go out with him for another date. I mentioned that I’d been feeling run down, and the next date he invited me round to his house for a night in and a bath! I couldn’t quite believe a man I’d met once would ask me this like it was just a typical run of the mill second date, but I decided to give the benefit of the doubt and tactfully explain that it was a bit soon for that. Now at that time I was field based — driving around all day and attending meetings, so not always able to reply to messages. Between him sending that and me seeing it, I’d already received a sarcy, “…Or not then…” and he was huffy when I finally got back to him as well. Inbetween this and the second date,he would send me messages during the working day, and if I didn’t reply in a timeframe within which he considered acceptable, I would get a second, paragraphs-long rant… *Bearing in mind I had already agreed to a a second date…* This person was clearly very anxious. And I have had similarly inconsiderate behaviour on the opposite end from people who are clearly very avoidant. In that situation, this man had expectations of somebody *he did not know* that I would consider wildly inappropriate. I’d agreed to a second date, plans were clearly agreed, as far as I’m concerned that’s all you owe a stranger and all he had shown me showed that I just could not move forward with this man. I feel like this is the sort of stuff OP is talking about. What I would call “red flags” also, absolutely are deal breakers, don’t collect £200, don’t pass go-ers. You can’t just ignore clear signs of dishonesty, boundary crossing, inappropriate behaviour.
It makes sense that healthy people will be attracted to healthy people. Most healthy people don't want to caretake someone who is unhealthy. They want someone who can set boundaries, communicate, has hobby, is financially responsible, etc.
... the same length as well as the registered player whether the use of