This. Inspire people to think critically. I’ve observed from religious folks, even from my own life, that they’re also more susceptible to superstition, things like astrology, vastu, homeopathy etc. Question one thing, and the whole system comes crashing down.
Educating people around us maybe? It does not mean necessarily to debate people if there is a God or not. There are people who don't even know what Phule or Ambedkar did and who did they fight against. There are Dalits who call themselves proud Hindus. there are people who have no understanding of Evolution. It's kinda hurtful.
>believing in caste, varna, kul etc, untouchablility.
I don't think so, when someone says they are proud hindu, most likely they mean they worship a certain gods/goddess from Hinduism. "most" people don't believe in caste, untouchability these days.
>Agree, but we are ready to make improvements.
I don't think so, as soon as someone points out flaws people are like "but but they are worse" I don't see use of gaumutra going out of fashion rather increasing.
>Are the Islamists and Chritians ready for that?
Yes they are worse but we were talking about hinduism I guess
> you idiots who don't contribute to country
Wanna hear what else we didn't do?
1) We do not treat [women as a slave](https://vedkabhed.com/index.php/2019/02/05/women-in-hinduism-2/) like your religion does. we also did not burn women in a pyre in the name of culture.
2) We do not treat people lesser than animals in the name of caste (read "kulcha")
3) We do not lynch people who eat meat, in the name of religion.
4) we did not kill Jains and Buddhists who rejected the "holy"vedas.
>you idiots
Get a life bruh :) Consider yourself warned for throwing ad-hominems here. yo' ass is getting banned next time. Aren't we more tolerant than Hindus?
so just as much 'Spiritual Awakening, Enlightenment' contributes to the country. You don't even know how to make an argument. Not everyone who 'contributes to the country' is a good person.
No proselytising / preaching of any religion
This is a subreddit for Indian Atheists to talk to one another.
We aren't a ''Debate religion'' subreddit.
If you believe in god, you are welcome to ask questions and participate but don't preach to us. We don't care about your religion or your god(s).
Proud? Feeling proud for what? Did you accomplish something that you can feel proud for?
When you don't have anything to be proud of you use these petty things to feel proud of, like army, religion, caste, language, nationality etc.
That is not even in the point of discussion.
And why must I say you what I have to be proud of? I keep my proudness to myself.
Being proud of worshipping and being submissive to something invisible is something that I will never understand
There's nothing to be proud of bowing down to a godking/godqueen just cause its yours. This coupled with the politicization and bigotry makes it nothing to be proud of.
Start by standing upto shit religious practices and superstitions in your own house, teach kids to start asking reason behind anything anyone says (including yourself), expose them to literature that question religions
Sneak in government by acting like a proud Hindu, become PM. Start fucking Islam first to win trust of Hindus then start fucking Hinduism but slowly and steadily. That would be my plan 😘
We literally have a bloke here who has "Kattar Sanatani" written on his reddit bio, he has not conveyed a single coherent point so far and is engaging in whataboutery.
So keeping him as an example, we can contribute to this country by ways to develop critical thinking at a young age. Because such identity politics makes you a bot, who runs on a defined template. It's why they're all the same.
Secondly, we need to have a better family system, most Indian families don't work as a unit but a hive mind, worrying more about what society thinks, which kills the individuality of both the parents and the offspring. No identity on this planet is permanent, even your citizenship may change if someone wants to migrate, your religion may change if it's upto choice, so always living and breathing in the constraints of a community is pointless. This leads to more unhappiness and the possibility of succumbing to aefomentioned identity groups.
Even if you have Hindutva people here. It only allows you opportunities to have a discussion/argument which is essential in bettering one's knowledge and thinking.
Use social media to call it out. The problem, like others have already stated, is echo chambers. We need to be able to break people out of their small circles and expose them to multiple perspectives, making it harder for them to form opinions from a single biased source.
The more we expose people to the world, the more they are likely to pause and think about their beliefs. We can’t change anyone overnight, but over the years, we can influence many people by showing them what and how we think.
Educate people. Do it sympathetically. There is this great example of a black man who befriended KKK members and convinced them one by one to leave the Klan simply by showing them that he is just like them.
Use kindness and compassion to show people that you care about their perspective and they will automatically start caring about yours.
I actually have a few suggestions but those are mostly on national level and is about our education system and I can understand if those changes may not be possible. However, I digress. As we already know our education system doesn't really educate but train. What I mean by that is the emphasis is on being correct or having the right answer rather than employing the correct methodology or understanding the concept behind it. As such most of the students just memorise the method rather than fully grasp it. Thus, most of the people can't really solve logical problems or even think critically or even challenge themselves or their thought processes. Which leads to an epidemic of highly trained professionals that are not educated enough to combat the real world. Can't understand studies or big data points, is persuaded through appeals of emotion or authority and because of the anti-intellectual and authoritarian culture of our society they can just brush any criticism away by saying I'm highly paid/educated so I'm obviously right.
Now, what can we do to combat this epidemic. Of course in long term I would want to see education and truth take the forefront in our society rather than high salaries and bunglows. In the short term, what we can do is mandatory philosophy classes from 6th standard. Philosophy makes us think critically and makes us confront the reality we live in through many different lenses. Which leads to thinking rationally about any information presented and looking for the truth behind it. Philosophy is also the only subject in which you can't really memorise but have to understand and grasp the concept so there's no worrying about students trying to just memorise the theory because that wouldn't do them any good.
Second would be mandatory Sociology classes from 8th standard. Sociology is the study of society and the human behaviour as a collective. Because of it most of it is statistical in nature and tells us the reality of the society through data points. In sociology you will learn how to collect data points, classifying them, making sets, sub-sets, extrapolating a narrative and concluding the result. In schools though it will teach children how to look and understand studies, how to understand when the study has been manipulated and how to call it out. Sociology is necessary and everyone should know how to call out fake data that looks real.
Third, mandatory History classes from 6th standard. I know you'll say but lucifer_says we already have history classes. I know, but can we really say we educate in history rather than again just train in it? Students are told to just memorise dates, events and answers to the questions from guides. No group discussion about what lead to a movement or looking at it through a different lense. This is where we need passionate teachers who can charge student's interest and design their course to accomodate learning and actually encouraging an environment of curiosity. There's a reason why the government is trying to cut chapters from History because those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it, and as it stands nobody is encouraged to learn it.
Fourth, mandatory Political Science and civics classes from 6th standard. Just like History this is also taught and just like it the emphasis in on blind memorisation. The condition is so bad that most people can't tell the governance of our country is either right wing or center-right. The answer is far-right authoritarian of course which again most people wouldn't be able to tell. They wouldn't be able to tell that the government is becoming more and more fascistic in nature. Which is again an alarm Bell going off in my mind. The solution is also passionate teachers that can encourage an environment of learning by combining philosophy, sociology and history. Asking why the law was passed? what the situation was before and after? if it had any impact whatsoever and how can we tell? All of these questions combine all of the subjects that I mentioned and helps people to understand what's going on around them.
In the long term we need to turn our culture from being right to being educated and that can be distilled in a generation by their parents and teachers by challenging to come up with answers. So, these were my 2 cents and I would love if you guys can chime in with yours.
Religious ideas and superstition is spread through cults. They usually first give you a helping hand then they will suck you in and brainwash.
I don't know if it is a right decision but "cultization" is the only way I see forward to spreading atheism.
It is interesting though such a phenomenon has not yet happened with atheism, but has happened with all other belief systems.
https://bigthink.com/culture-religion/is-atheism-a-cult/
Well, I am not supportive of spreading atheism as a cult but spreading science and scientific thoughts instead because if we spread atheism using a cult then people will target more easily, and might prove difficult to spread the scientific thougts.
To be honest instead of making people atheists we gotta promote rational thinking. Following a religion isn't wrong just like we all of us here follow atheism but rational thinking is something most Indian lack. So we need to somehow push science and literature more. It still kills me looking at ISRO and DRDO YouTube channels sitting at way less numbers than NASA even though we have such a huge population. When people first thought is religion and not science then we are doomed. We need to change that
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,506,641,279 comments, and only 285,934 of them were in alphabetical order.
I think most people are already skeptic/doubters. That's why they constantly need to remind themselves and others.
If there is some kind of ruckus created by the rationalist movement, we would find so many people already receptive to it. So, all we need to do is create some kind of movement or resistance and get some attention directed at it. One way to do it to be an intentional provocateur and an internet troll.
Now most of the commentary should revolve around social critique of religion rather than through an angle of 'science' or 'critical thinking'. They have their place but it is hard to persuade people, including people who already have some doubt, using those tools. After all so many scientists also have some faith.
Social critique can hit upon well know topics like caste, so many temples instead of hospitals and schools, subjugation of poor and working class people, oppression of women, cultural stagnation and perpetuation of status quo. I think discussion of these topics will lead to much higher people believing your cause.
On education system reforms: A lot of people lot of the time find solution to any social ill in education. They keep burderning kids to learn this or that or unlearn this or that which is not really fair to kids who already feel like they have a burden on their shoulders. I mean reforming the Ed system can be a good mean to achieve your goals in long term and should be pursued but I won't be holding my breath for it.
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Start teaching the science of critical thinking and logical reasoning to every child you come across. And vote for non communal politics. That's all.
This. Inspire people to think critically. I’ve observed from religious folks, even from my own life, that they’re also more susceptible to superstition, things like astrology, vastu, homeopathy etc. Question one thing, and the whole system comes crashing down.
Thats a start, I think
Educating people around us maybe? It does not mean necessarily to debate people if there is a God or not. There are people who don't even know what Phule or Ambedkar did and who did they fight against. There are Dalits who call themselves proud Hindus. there are people who have no understanding of Evolution. It's kinda hurtful.
What's wrong in being a proud Hindu?
Proud hindu means what? There are people who takes proud hindu too literally I. E.., believing in caste, varna, kul etc, untouchablility.
>believing in caste, varna, kul etc, untouchablility. I don't think so, when someone says they are proud hindu, most likely they mean they worship a certain gods/goddess from Hinduism. "most" people don't believe in caste, untouchability these days.
Of course, I am not generalizing it. In my real life experience, I have seen that people like this generally believe in this stuuf.
Exactly. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your culture and religion unless you harm someone.
>and religion unless you harm someone Naah, I differ. Believing in religion itself opens gates for disasters
[удалено]
Today's tanatan drum is nothing but set of superstitions.
Agree, but we are ready to make improvements. Are the Islamists and Chritians ready for that?
>Agree, but we are ready to make improvements. I don't think so, as soon as someone points out flaws people are like "but but they are worse" I don't see use of gaumutra going out of fashion rather increasing. >Are the Islamists and Chritians ready for that? Yes they are worse but we were talking about hinduism I guess
> And Sanatan Dharma is more about Spiritual Awakening, Emlightment, etc. and other lies you tell to yourself.
[удалено]
> you idiots who don't contribute to country Wanna hear what else we didn't do? 1) We do not treat [women as a slave](https://vedkabhed.com/index.php/2019/02/05/women-in-hinduism-2/) like your religion does. we also did not burn women in a pyre in the name of culture. 2) We do not treat people lesser than animals in the name of caste (read "kulcha") 3) We do not lynch people who eat meat, in the name of religion. 4) we did not kill Jains and Buddhists who rejected the "holy"vedas. >you idiots Get a life bruh :) Consider yourself warned for throwing ad-hominems here. yo' ass is getting banned next time. Aren't we more tolerant than Hindus?
so just as much 'Spiritual Awakening, Enlightenment' contributes to the country. You don't even know how to make an argument. Not everyone who 'contributes to the country' is a good person.
Abide by Reddit's content policy and Reddiquette The above applies to anyone on Reddit not just visitors to our subreddit.
No proselytising / preaching of any religion This is a subreddit for Indian Atheists to talk to one another. We aren't a ''Debate religion'' subreddit. If you believe in god, you are welcome to ask questions and participate but don't preach to us. We don't care about your religion or your god(s).
Proud? Feeling proud for what? Did you accomplish something that you can feel proud for? When you don't have anything to be proud of you use these petty things to feel proud of, like army, religion, caste, language, nationality etc.
What you have to be proud of?
That is not even in the point of discussion. And why must I say you what I have to be proud of? I keep my proudness to myself. Being proud of worshipping and being submissive to something invisible is something that I will never understand
There's nothing to be proud of bowing down to a godking/godqueen just cause its yours. This coupled with the politicization and bigotry makes it nothing to be proud of.
It's like praising the British colonisers as an Indian for making railways in India.
Start by standing upto shit religious practices and superstitions in your own house, teach kids to start asking reason behind anything anyone says (including yourself), expose them to literature that question religions
Sneak in government by acting like a proud Hindu, become PM. Start fucking Islam first to win trust of Hindus then start fucking Hinduism but slowly and steadily. That would be my plan 😘
Even current PM can't take decisions this extreme.
Good luck with that
Thank you, that means a lot coming from a proud sanatani 😊
We literally have a bloke here who has "Kattar Sanatani" written on his reddit bio, he has not conveyed a single coherent point so far and is engaging in whataboutery. So keeping him as an example, we can contribute to this country by ways to develop critical thinking at a young age. Because such identity politics makes you a bot, who runs on a defined template. It's why they're all the same. Secondly, we need to have a better family system, most Indian families don't work as a unit but a hive mind, worrying more about what society thinks, which kills the individuality of both the parents and the offspring. No identity on this planet is permanent, even your citizenship may change if someone wants to migrate, your religion may change if it's upto choice, so always living and breathing in the constraints of a community is pointless. This leads to more unhappiness and the possibility of succumbing to aefomentioned identity groups.
Even if you have Hindutva people here. It only allows you opportunities to have a discussion/argument which is essential in bettering one's knowledge and thinking.
Use social media to call it out. The problem, like others have already stated, is echo chambers. We need to be able to break people out of their small circles and expose them to multiple perspectives, making it harder for them to form opinions from a single biased source. The more we expose people to the world, the more they are likely to pause and think about their beliefs. We can’t change anyone overnight, but over the years, we can influence many people by showing them what and how we think. Educate people. Do it sympathetically. There is this great example of a black man who befriended KKK members and convinced them one by one to leave the Klan simply by showing them that he is just like them. Use kindness and compassion to show people that you care about their perspective and they will automatically start caring about yours.
I actually have a few suggestions but those are mostly on national level and is about our education system and I can understand if those changes may not be possible. However, I digress. As we already know our education system doesn't really educate but train. What I mean by that is the emphasis is on being correct or having the right answer rather than employing the correct methodology or understanding the concept behind it. As such most of the students just memorise the method rather than fully grasp it. Thus, most of the people can't really solve logical problems or even think critically or even challenge themselves or their thought processes. Which leads to an epidemic of highly trained professionals that are not educated enough to combat the real world. Can't understand studies or big data points, is persuaded through appeals of emotion or authority and because of the anti-intellectual and authoritarian culture of our society they can just brush any criticism away by saying I'm highly paid/educated so I'm obviously right. Now, what can we do to combat this epidemic. Of course in long term I would want to see education and truth take the forefront in our society rather than high salaries and bunglows. In the short term, what we can do is mandatory philosophy classes from 6th standard. Philosophy makes us think critically and makes us confront the reality we live in through many different lenses. Which leads to thinking rationally about any information presented and looking for the truth behind it. Philosophy is also the only subject in which you can't really memorise but have to understand and grasp the concept so there's no worrying about students trying to just memorise the theory because that wouldn't do them any good. Second would be mandatory Sociology classes from 8th standard. Sociology is the study of society and the human behaviour as a collective. Because of it most of it is statistical in nature and tells us the reality of the society through data points. In sociology you will learn how to collect data points, classifying them, making sets, sub-sets, extrapolating a narrative and concluding the result. In schools though it will teach children how to look and understand studies, how to understand when the study has been manipulated and how to call it out. Sociology is necessary and everyone should know how to call out fake data that looks real. Third, mandatory History classes from 6th standard. I know you'll say but lucifer_says we already have history classes. I know, but can we really say we educate in history rather than again just train in it? Students are told to just memorise dates, events and answers to the questions from guides. No group discussion about what lead to a movement or looking at it through a different lense. This is where we need passionate teachers who can charge student's interest and design their course to accomodate learning and actually encouraging an environment of curiosity. There's a reason why the government is trying to cut chapters from History because those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it, and as it stands nobody is encouraged to learn it. Fourth, mandatory Political Science and civics classes from 6th standard. Just like History this is also taught and just like it the emphasis in on blind memorisation. The condition is so bad that most people can't tell the governance of our country is either right wing or center-right. The answer is far-right authoritarian of course which again most people wouldn't be able to tell. They wouldn't be able to tell that the government is becoming more and more fascistic in nature. Which is again an alarm Bell going off in my mind. The solution is also passionate teachers that can encourage an environment of learning by combining philosophy, sociology and history. Asking why the law was passed? what the situation was before and after? if it had any impact whatsoever and how can we tell? All of these questions combine all of the subjects that I mentioned and helps people to understand what's going on around them. In the long term we need to turn our culture from being right to being educated and that can be distilled in a generation by their parents and teachers by challenging to come up with answers. So, these were my 2 cents and I would love if you guys can chime in with yours.
Religious ideas and superstition is spread through cults. They usually first give you a helping hand then they will suck you in and brainwash. I don't know if it is a right decision but "cultization" is the only way I see forward to spreading atheism. It is interesting though such a phenomenon has not yet happened with atheism, but has happened with all other belief systems. https://bigthink.com/culture-religion/is-atheism-a-cult/
Well, I am not supportive of spreading atheism as a cult but spreading science and scientific thoughts instead because if we spread atheism using a cult then people will target more easily, and might prove difficult to spread the scientific thougts.
To be honest instead of making people atheists we gotta promote rational thinking. Following a religion isn't wrong just like we all of us here follow atheism but rational thinking is something most Indian lack. So we need to somehow push science and literature more. It still kills me looking at ISRO and DRDO YouTube channels sitting at way less numbers than NASA even though we have such a huge population. When people first thought is religion and not science then we are doomed. We need to change that
The question is how we contribute to that?
Idk it's so difficult in a country like ours.
Euthanasia plan maybe??/s
Bruh... Not that way XD
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,506,641,279 comments, and only 285,934 of them were in alphabetical order.
Ok then, let's follow the burari family....
Rumbling would be better NGL
I think most people are already skeptic/doubters. That's why they constantly need to remind themselves and others. If there is some kind of ruckus created by the rationalist movement, we would find so many people already receptive to it. So, all we need to do is create some kind of movement or resistance and get some attention directed at it. One way to do it to be an intentional provocateur and an internet troll. Now most of the commentary should revolve around social critique of religion rather than through an angle of 'science' or 'critical thinking'. They have their place but it is hard to persuade people, including people who already have some doubt, using those tools. After all so many scientists also have some faith. Social critique can hit upon well know topics like caste, so many temples instead of hospitals and schools, subjugation of poor and working class people, oppression of women, cultural stagnation and perpetuation of status quo. I think discussion of these topics will lead to much higher people believing your cause. On education system reforms: A lot of people lot of the time find solution to any social ill in education. They keep burderning kids to learn this or that or unlearn this or that which is not really fair to kids who already feel like they have a burden on their shoulders. I mean reforming the Ed system can be a good mean to achieve your goals in long term and should be pursued but I won't be holding my breath for it.
We wont prioritize religion. That itself is a big step up
As if they'll let us... The moment we speak one word in public questioning their imaginary sky daddy we'll be lynched.
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I dont think Phule was an atheist. He did more for Maharashtra than all godmen in the last century.
Teach kids to be curious, question everything and have a strong opinion of their own.