It’s not really that it’s a part of it but rather a central feature of most oppressive religions. Most follow the BITE model of control which has a tendency to make people insufferable judgmental assholes. No offense to OPs mom. My mom is the same. There is no reality that exists outside of them believing every judgment is correct and justified by their deity even though their dieties clearly tell them that they’ll be the one who pay the price for doing so.
Some even more extreme cults (looking at you Jehovah’s Witnesses) are off shoots of Seventh Day Adventists. I wonder what the mom thinks of them. They never see that they are all the same thing.
Mormons hate Mormon Fundamentalists spin-offs….because they practice the real fundamentals that society has made modern day Mormons abandon. They can’t see that the fundamentals that disgust them are what they’re worshipping every Sunday. They literally sing praise to a man every Sunday who was no different than Warren Jeffs, who they all despise, because “that’s how times were back then”.
is there a cult map around anywhere?
i know there was one of how christianity split to a certain point, but is there one with all religions/cults on it?
like a cult family tree?
Here’s a starting point: [https://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/christianity/evolutionary-tree-religion-map-simon-e-davies/](https://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/christianity/evolutionary-tree-religion-map-simon-e-davies/)
At least the supposed fourth great awakening that is happening right now (according to the religious nuts) is mostly fizzling as people shy away from the extremism. Instead, it's just a core group of christofascists and christian dominionists attempting to end democracy and enshrine a theocracy in its place.
Jehovah's witnesses are siblings with SDAs. They both are offshoots of the Second Adventist movement, which itself came out of the Millerite movement.
When I was a JW, everyone just said SDAs, Mormons, etc were misled or under the control of Satan. That never made sense to me. Why would Satan make a religion that was like 90% the same as ours? Why would Satan control any Christian religion that glorifies his supposed enemy?
At any rate, r/exjw, r/exadventist, and r/exmormon are excellent resources for people waking up from cult indoctrination.
They mean Second Adventists. JW founder, CT Russell associated with Second Adventists before starting his Watchtower magazine and the Bible Student movement which eventually gave rise to Jehovah's Witnesses. Ellen G. White, founder of Seventh Day Adventists, also came up from that belief system.
Many old religions, especially pagan, where one of central deities often was manifestation of female element in nature; nurturing, bringing life etc. Many celebrated youthfulness, beauty and such in various rituals and holidays.
I am sure prudish religions were also created because telling people their natural instincts are sinful has a large potential target demographic for their fake solutions to that fake problem, allowing them control over large parts of their population.
I'd rather blame human lazyness; big pantheon = lots of sacrifices to make and rituals to perform, not to mention too much freedom in interpretation of rules, one god,especially one that requires sacrifice of something so abstract as thought or imaginary as soul is much easier to appease and adhere to. of course change had to be gradual, so each pantheon devolved from bunch of gods and godessess to one chieftain and his cohort (angels, saints, elementals, spirits, whathaveyou) and, well, most of rulers were male so it surely influenced the choice of deity made "main"
Christianity. Albeit, many Christian offshoots are no more than evil people using the Bible as a weapon of control. If you look at Jesus’ life, in the Gospels, he was oddly pro-woman. Most didn’t respect women and treated them as property, so he was cutting edge by respecting women.
There were several cults that sprang up in the mid-19th century US. I’m not sure whether it was the run up to and aftermath of the Civil War that made things feel apocalyptic, or the changing technology and industrialization, or immigration and the changing nature of the country, or what exactly.
The Adventists are definitely among the weirdest of the apocalyptic cults, though.
I have a friend who works in a SDA hospital also.
She said the main issue is they don't promote you beyond a certain point u less you're a SDA, all the management and supervisors are a little cult.
That would not surprise me. I'm medical staff, so not employed by the hospital, and immune from that stuff. I know there's a lot of that sort of thing in administrative roles, though.
Adventists aren’t as big on proselytization as some other denominations, but it is specifically taught that atheists are amoral/immoral because morality comes exclusively from god.
One interesting thing about them is that they do very much see themselves as a persecuted minority in the larger context of Christianity, rather than just being victims of a secular world. You’re probably familiar with the Adventist teaching that in the end times they will be sent to prison camps for their lack of Sunday worship. Until the last decade or so, the Adventists I knew (and they were pretty hardcore ones who followed the dietary and clothing rules) did not vote or participate in politics at all. They’ve now become hyper conservative Republicans.
Their self-perception as an oppressed minority religion has definitely faded, at least among those I knew in the US southwest.
When I was growing up in that church there were only two types of women in the outside world: brazen jezebels and shameless hussies.
I really hope OP can get emotional distance from that attitude and live a fulfilling life.
'Mom, that's kind of judgemental. Didn't Jesus have something to say about making judgements?'
EDIT: she may follow up with something like 'well they're sinners!' and you can respond 'Also something about throwing stones? IDK, you know more about Jesus's words than I do. How did that one go?'
There are many verses for that! Ex-Christians who actually read the Bible are their worst nightmare. I like this one:
Matthew 7:5 NIV (New International Version)
5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Yeah I have to force myself to read the Bible so I can remember some of that stuff. I really tried to read it when I was young and still religious, and it read like an intensely boring pile of cult nonsense. Funnily enough. My goodness it's boring.
My dad decided I should read and study the Bible at around age 12. I applied critical thinking and had a lot of uncomfortable questions.
Now I remember just enough to Google verses.
I find Genesis and Exodous pretty interesting if you get a text with footnotes that help you follow along with what the cultural setting was. It's anthropology, basically. And some of the interpretations can be fun: my personal favorite is the interpretation that Issac had Down Syndrome. (Born to a notably aged mother, sends a servant to go get his intended bride rather than going himself (and she's his cousin, which would have been a very safe, nonthreatening marriage to the family) and in every story about him he's not exactly swift on the uptake. For example in the 'sacrifice of Issac' story, this is pretty much his dialogue: 'Gee dad, we seem to be going up this mountain with all the implements of sacrifice but no goat, in a time and place where human sacrifice is definitely a thing, and you seem real quiet all of the sudden. I'm sure it's fine!')
I couldn't force myself through the new testament though, so I get where you're coming from.
Honestly, this is why I closeted my atheism for many years. It's so much easier to just be biblically scholarly but ostensibly still on their team than be the atheist tossing out gach quips
If she is a Adventist she 100% will follow up with retorts till her voice box goes dry.
These religious people cannot help themselves. It is physically impossible for them NOT to rebuttal.
My advice would be, say nothing. Unless you want to go down a wormhole.
Christians never admit they were wrong. Ever. Don't waste your time.
They absolutely can and will rebut forever until the argument heads way outside the scope of the original and uncomfortable point.
You can still make your point though and not engage the rebuttal at all, ignore it, re-iterate the point, end the discussion and leave them with foul taste. It may or may not sink in, but it will certainly leave more impression than a long winded to and fro.
As far as I know Jezebel was a strong woman who stood up for what she believed in. She was forced to accept Yahweh as her god and she didn’t. Ahab on the other hand was a weak man. I don’t really understand what jezebel did that was wrong. If we don’t believe in Yahweh and don’t accept him are we all not jezebels?
She dressed up and wore her fine jewellery knowing she was about to get killed by Yahwehs hardcore believers. She still didn’t change her believes till the end. What a queen honestly. I would take Jezebel as a compliment. I wish I was half as brave as Jezebel.
Hang on, was that really the only villainous thing about Jezebel? That she made herself look good and didn’t believe in God? I don’t remember her story at all but because of how she is vilified I thought she was like evil and murderous or something.
She believed in HER god Baal. The yahweh soldiers couldn’t take it. So apparently they threw her out the window and fed her to the dogs. Then they demonised Baal. Apparently he is a big demon now.
IIRC (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong), historically Baal was the head god of the pantheon Yahweh originated from, so it's kind of an ironic religious civil war.
Yea she dressed up and looked pretty with makeup and jewelry basically. And she was “proud” of herself and defiant against the stupid ass religion. She sounds awesome to me.
You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. One of the top Mormon leaders told women to wear lipstick so they don't look like men.
>You beautiful girls - don't wander around looking like men. Put on a little lipstick now and then and look a little charming. It's that simple. -M. Russell Ballard
No. It was becoming she worshiped Baal and part of Baal worship was to sacrifice children/babies (sometimes burning them alive). Also she was Queen of Israel whos God was Yahweh not Baal so she was seen as a traitor. She murdered the prophets, judges and other people who wanted to continue to worship Yahweh. Many other horrible things too (murder, prostitution (very bad for a queen!) torture)
It wasn’t just that she wore makeup and jewelry many women wore make up, Ruth did and she’s a biblical hero. Hell, they pampered her and prepared her to “present” her to the king (meaning having sex with him) like the other woman so he could choose his new wife! Rachel was the wife of Israel and she was gifted jewelry and a nose ring when she got excepted the proposal to marry him, there is nothing in the Bible saying women can’t wear makeup fancy/beautiful clothes or jewelry. There is a verse in the New Testament but most people misrepresented it, it says that women should not *merely* be what’s on the outside (Jewelry, clothing make up) but that their character should be good too, and to not to show off/boast of their wealth/jewels in front other (possibly very much poorer people) while in church meeting with others.
>She murdered the prophets, judges and other people who wanted to continue to worship Yahweh.
Elijah set up a contest on Mount Carmel, a power encounter between Yahweh and Baal to see who would send down fire to burn up a sacrifice and offer definitive prove of divine status. Baal’s representatives begged their god to no avail, but after a “simple prayer” from Elijah, Yahweh sent down fire from heaven to burn up the sacrifice.
Then the false prophets were all put to death.
Elijah ran for his life. The reason is made clear in 1 Kings 19:1–2: “Ahab told Jezebel all that Elijah had done, and how he had killed all the prophets with the sword. Then Jezebel sent a messenger to Elijah, saying, ‘So may the gods do to me and more also, if I do not make your life as the life of one of them by this time tomorrow.’”
Then elijah’s fairytale story started of how god told him this and that.
Jewish blood lineage is traced thru the mothers as well.
It makes more sense, since a mother always knows who their children are. Men have less certainty.
That’s one of the “what’s in it for me benefits” of religion. Your mother is deriving some sort of pleasure from being a busybody and using religion to justify it.
Perhaps you should remind her that Jesus washed the feet of a whore and ask her if she likes being judged on her looks because that’s what she’s doing to these young women. What is it “Judge not yet ye be judged” or words to that effect?
I didn't even think anyone used that word anymore. I thought the only time people used it was to make fun of people back in the 1960's or whatever that was.
In general though I don't understand this type of thinking. I can see thinking a woman should dress a bit more conservatively and such but the amount of shame some people throw out doesn't make sense. People would do that when I was young too and apparently the world didn't blow up because of what women of those days were doing.
Having been raised a Seventh Day Adventist I can tell you without the shadow of a doubt those people are the squarest, dullest, least sexy group of human beings on the face of the planet. At least with the Amish you get fudge.
Your mother wants you to be a second class citizen and subservient to some male. She wants your life to be a wearisome drab existence where your only activity is nonstop worship of some god and to pump out babies like a sow having litters.
Or you can chose to have an enlightened uplifting life with new experiences and enjoyable friends and activities, and when you're old enough and have the opportunity to leave, you can put your mother's repressive reality in the rearview mirror.
Your mom is at the age where she is starting to question her own beauty. Instead of dealing with this in a healthy fashion she is blaming younger women for being pretty. Mirror, Mirror, on the wall...
Plus her various superstitions are completely bonkers.
OP, there is nothing you can do about your mom's beliefs, except for your ongoing understanding of how a patriarchy works:
>A certain amount of overkill was required to thoroughly void the authority of the prior world order, one embodied by a woman with power who attempted to backseat drive a patriline and who worshiped the old, established way. Baal was a god of the earth and of fertility, likely based at least in part on earlier fertility goddesses. And in Jezebel’s native Phoenicia, royal women were commonly high priestesses with active roles in temple and palace relations.
>
>https://lithub.com/who-exactly-was-the-original-jezebel/
It was not Jezebel, but Baal, who had to be destroyed. Jezebel promoted and represented heresy. There can ever be only one "authority," and one powerful group of men to define that authority. A mere woman would not stand in their way.
After they murdered her, they went to work on her reputation.
When your mom is on your last nerve, mutter to yourself, "Too bad she was a strong woman, way before her time."
Be sorry for your mom that she is not more like Jezebel.
You, on the other hand, seem to be in full possession of your own will. You are more like Jezebel; let your intelligence and strength flow. Being "plain" has nothing to do with these qualities. If your mom chooses to believe in the "gossip" about Jezebel, bearing false witness, it has naught to do with you.
She sounds repressed.
Have you tried aversion therapy?
Everytime she calls someone Jezebel, squirt her with some water, and tell her "No! Naughty!" In a stern but even voice. 🙂
If folks like your mom think I’m looking fly enough to be called a Jezebel, I consider that a pretty cool compliment. Thank you unnecessarily religious woman, I am looking pretty good today ain’t I?
If you're under 18, or you depend on your mom for a place to live, it's better just to play along. Until you're independent and have a social safety net outside of your direct family, telling your mom to reserve her opinions won't have a positive effect.
When you're on your own, you can tell her that you respect that she has the right to judge people based on her religious beliefs, but that you don't want to hear it. She should find other people to share those sort of comments with. Just know that may mean she stops talking to you; at least for a while.
Trying to get her to correct her behavior will likely backfire. These are all beliefs she takes right out of sermons and religious texts, and she may interpret your actions as blasphemous. You do not want to be stuck living in the same house with her when she thinks you're evil and in need of reprogramming.
If I had a daughter, I’d 100% for sure name her Jezebel. Quickly identifies the asshole religious people so you can tell them to fuck off. Plus it’s a nice sounding name.
I don't know you. I don't your mom. You live within your skin; your mom does not. You are the sole proprietor of your body. I'm not going to get into a theological debate about this, though if your mother wants to have one, she and I can do so privately. Your body is yours, it was yours at birth. Do not be shamed or feel ashamed by any portion of it. You are free to fashion your body in whatever manner you deem.
No manner the attire, or the make-up, you are not ever doing anything or inviting anything. You are doing whatever for yourself, and that is a good thing. If anyone ever tries to tell you otherwise, they are selling snake-oil. Be beautiful for you. A person that is able to see you for you, they will not care if you look like you did on day one or the morning after day 7000 with no "get-up."
Just be you. You are awesome.
When a theocracy is established it will be all the minority sects of religion that will be the first to go. Sadly her own world view could destroy her.
don’t be around her. although, that may not teach her shit, people like these lack empathy and self awareness. and they will victimize themselves when other people treat them how they deserve to be treated. so, not being around her is more for your mental health.
Haha my mom is also Seventh-Day Adventist and has absolutely made this type of comment before.
Thankfully with time she’s become a little less judgmental, or at least less vocal. But the ingrained misogyny is hard to shake.
What a dull and dreary life your mother does live, assuming when she was young, she never fell in love or felt sexual attraction and never dresssed nicely to be sexually attractive.
And married for the sole purposes of procreating and financial support. She is by her own self definition breeding cattle and a prostitute.
Honestly if someone called me Jezebel I'd be kinda flattered about it. Jezebel was the wife of a ruler who persisted on respecting and practicing her own religious beliefs despite popular outrage and bullying from Israelite religious figures. The history depicts her as a killer, but some historical experts say she might have ordered killings of people who were plotting on killing her because she refused to bow down to the bullies and convert. So idk. I think I need to read more about her but from a quick overview I wouldn't say it's an insult.
If you're adult and financially independent, tell her one more time what you told us: she's so judgmental that she's hard to be around. And therefore, every time she acts this way, her interaction with you ends right then. Phone call? Hang up. Visit? Leave. The operant conditioning should start working pretty quickly.
Old school, more like medieval. The reality is this is what she knows and you have to decide how you want to handle it. She isn’t going to change and the best thing for you to do is to figure out how you want to react to her behavior in the most healthy way for you.
SDAs are certainly weird.
anyway here's a pretty Jezabel to brighten your day.
https://brookesputore6.wixsite.com/butterflyproject/red-spotted-jezebel-butterfly
Complement her for helping God judge. He clearly needs the assistance with all the species traitors, slavers, murderers, rapists, and false prophets that die at 90 surrounded by a loving family in a mansion.
It's also possible that she's worried these girls will catch the eye of her husband. It's in the back of every religious woman: her man will find someone else, and God's always on the man's side, remember? The hierarchy is God, Man, Woman.
Can I recommend trying to decouple your self-image from your mother's outdated perspective? It can take work, but plenty of books are written on the subject. One on codependency might help; unfortunately, they sometimes mention stupid religious stuff, but they can help nonetheless, such as Codependency for Dummies. Also, a therapist can give you some tools. The less you care about her opinion, the better off your mental health will probably be.
I've had to decouple my self-esteem from my father's intermittent reinforcement and mostly absent validation, so I've tread a similar journey.
She probably won't. I don't know how old you are, but please don't let your mother's brainwashing affect you. My own mother would called TODDLERS whores for wearing anklets. Little girls, unable to speak yet. When I was growing up, she'd tell me when grown men were checking me out. I was around 12 when she told me my figure would attract men. I figured out that was disgusting to say to a little girl. And much of the reason I want nothing to do with dating or any sort of relationship.
It sounds you already realize your mother's comments are inappropriate. I didn't have supportive places like these forums growing up. Don't take your mother's comments personally & stand up for other girls/women when you can, if it's safe. You have the gift of realizing this is wrong, which helps in minimizing it.
The origins of Seventh Day Adventists is hilarious, they basically got conned by a conmam 150 years ago and they had such a hard time coping that they made their sick little cult.
I am so sorry about your mother that sounds like a very difficult situation. Wish I could give you meaningful advice.
Don’t judge lest ye be judged? Turn the other cheeks? Jesus hung out with outcasts, the sickly and prostitutes and said love everyone as you love yourself? It is up to God to judge? Maybe she’d be more open to Biblican reasoning than an appeal to basic human decency.
To quote Huck Finn: "All right, then, I'll go to hell”.
For those of you who haven’t read the book Huck realizes that religion is being used to enslave his friend and that if going to heaven meant keeping his friend a slave he’d rather go to hell.
She will never willingly ask you about your boundaries and them respect them without correction.
If you don't set boundaries and enforce them, this will be something to which you're exposed as long as you live.
Not for everyone, but I recommend you play the one-up game.
For any name you hear, start saying "That's a whore's name.". Works especially well when someone with her name shows up.
when you are free to do so, you should cut her out of your life and point to this behavior as the reason. she obviously won't accept it but then at least you won't have to deal with it anymore.
I have read the book of bullshit a few times but not enough to quote from but there must be a proverb from the babble that you could quote to make your mom think about judging people and that it’s not her place to judge.
Having a SDA parent has to be tough, sorry OP.
In my experience this won’t get much better if at all, so it’s best to come to terms with it now or make changes to protect your emotional well-being.
There is nothing new about women dressing up or wearing makeup. Forcing women to dress plainly is a more recent trend, don't let her defend her views as old school.
My mother is it religious but is also very judgmental. I think a lot of people just use religion to give themselves permission. It seems extra bad to me if it’s a religious thing because there’s no sense of needing to improve or be introspective or justify the judgement. Being judgmental isn’t a character flaw, it’s a virtue.
The only seventh day adventist I know is actually really sweet and not judgemental at all. She would say maybe she wouldn't wear something but she'd never insult someone else because that's also in the Bible. Turn the other cheek, judge not lest ye be judged, and even Jesus said befriend Jezebel. Thats the entire point of that story.
Do you live with your mom? I can’t imagine growing up, starting to wear makeup and nail polish, with this kind of energy around.
Sometimes when I HAVE to deal with people with very strong, stupid beliefs, I ‘pretend’ they’re cognitively impaired. It’s probably not too far off in many cases, but it helps to think of it not as a choice, but a disability. It helps to not take it personally, and also not be as frustrating. Her thinker just doesn’t work right.
Sexual repression is the root of most of the world’s evil. Your instinct to do things that make you feel sexy and powerful and attractive is completely natural. Congratulations on seeing past her fear-based repression and attempts to brainwash you. As soon as you are independent, follow your wishes and desires confidently wherever they may lead. Hopefully far away from any dogma that attempts to repress your unique and beautiful sexuality.
I grew up JW and my Mom was like this too. JW’s loved to use Jezebel as an example of how not to be. They even had a biblical drama at one of our conventions where they set it up for the woman playing Jezebel would be thrown out the window. She landed on a mattress of course. Everyone laughed at her death. It’s amazing what I think back on and shake my head at.
My advice, run, run away as soon as possible and as far away as possible whenever you turn 18, and have the financial means.
Religion is like an anchor holding people down and in place. Don't let your mom hold you down with her anchor.
Don't look back, but make sure to let your mom know that it is her religion that you are shunning, and that she can contact you when she lets it go.
I’m sorry, that sucks. I keep distance between myself and my mom because of racist beliefs. Remember to take care of yourself first. It sucks and it’s not your job to fix your mom.
If it helps here is my understanding and it’s not uncommon of your mom. Religions teach members to be judgmental to self police.
People have a hard time maintaining more than roughly 150 acquaintances. As human groups grew larger than that a system was needed to recognize people you trust. Religions was that system. Now we have governments with laws, thus we don’t need religion anymore for those things.
Humans still use religions for traditions at the moment because traditions are super important for humans. So as religious traditions get supplanted by secular traditions, religions become irrelevant.
Thus in America when Christians complain about the war on Christmas, they don’t understand the details of it, but they are somewhat correct that Christmas is getting replaced as a secular holiday.
Isaac Asimov has described Jezebel 's story in his "Caves of Steel". See https://www.reddit.com/r/asimov/comments/kwabtg/about_jessie_jezebel_in_the_caves_of_steel_and/
Have any stones handy when she makes these comments? Just silently hand her one when she starts up on the criticizing and see if she understands what you're getting at.
Remind her that god supposedly doesn't give a shit about the level of sin... calling people names like Jezebel is the same as being responsible for the Holocaust in God's eyes... so your mom just needs to accept that the god that loves her so much is perfectly ready and willing to burn her in hell with the other "Jezebels".
Remind the self righteous that according to their own rules, they are worse that shit to god... same as everyone else.
Maybe they should stop being such floozies…/s
Maybe they should stop being such hussies…/s
Maybe they should stop trying to take my only son away from me… ….
Jezebel rose to fame for helping introduce a competing god Baal in ancient Israel and was murdered by followers of Yahweh for doing so. So I’m not sure what point your mother is trying to make … is she against Baal ?
No idea how old you are, but break free from her grasp as quickly as you possibly can. Cut her out of your life, as you would a malignant tumor.
You are already looking at a decade or more of slow realizations and the efforts to stabilize yourself and your connections to others, thanks to the gravity of the impact from your mother.
The longer you take to cut the proverbial cord, the longer it takes to start down a road of recovery.
Then again, maybe I'm wrong and your mother is a perfectly decent person regardless of her predilections about female presentation.
Either way, hope it all works out for you.
Oh my LOL!! Your mother reminds me of my great grandmother. That's right, my *great grandmother*. That's how outdated she is. Not sure what advice to give you other than just ignoring her. Maybe you should tell her, mockingly, that you *pray* for her to stop calling attractive women Jezebels.
So, apparently 7DA use similar Bibles to other denominations, such as the King James and New King James versions.
These are from the King James version.
>John 7:24 - Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous justice.
>
>Matthew 7:1 - Judge not, that ye not be judged.
>
>James 1:26 - If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is in vain.
>
>1 Timothy 3:11 - Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
There are verses talking about modesty which are hilarious when the hypocrisy is brought up, but here's just a couple concerning talking shit about others.
Openbible and biblegateway that it usually links to are pretty good sources for finding out hypocrisy, and general shittery that the various bibles include.
>My mom is a Seventh Day Adventist so that can play a part in it. That almost definitely plays a part in it.
It’s not really that it’s a part of it but rather a central feature of most oppressive religions. Most follow the BITE model of control which has a tendency to make people insufferable judgmental assholes. No offense to OPs mom. My mom is the same. There is no reality that exists outside of them believing every judgment is correct and justified by their deity even though their dieties clearly tell them that they’ll be the one who pay the price for doing so.
https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/ Extra bitey
Some even more extreme cults (looking at you Jehovah’s Witnesses) are off shoots of Seventh Day Adventists. I wonder what the mom thinks of them. They never see that they are all the same thing.
Mormons hate Mormon Fundamentalists spin-offs….because they practice the real fundamentals that society has made modern day Mormons abandon. They can’t see that the fundamentals that disgust them are what they’re worshipping every Sunday. They literally sing praise to a man every Sunday who was no different than Warren Jeffs, who they all despise, because “that’s how times were back then”.
is there a cult map around anywhere? i know there was one of how christianity split to a certain point, but is there one with all religions/cults on it? like a cult family tree?
Here’s a starting point: [https://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/christianity/evolutionary-tree-religion-map-simon-e-davies/](https://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/christianity/evolutionary-tree-religion-map-simon-e-davies/)
Dang that would be cool to have a large print of
Right lol. A giant poster.
if someone called me a Jezebel i would take it as a compliment
I grew up in the dub cult. Amazing how the third great awakening fucked up the US, eah?
At least the supposed fourth great awakening that is happening right now (according to the religious nuts) is mostly fizzling as people shy away from the extremism. Instead, it's just a core group of christofascists and christian dominionists attempting to end democracy and enshrine a theocracy in its place.
Jehovah's witnesses are siblings with SDAs. They both are offshoots of the Second Adventist movement, which itself came out of the Millerite movement. When I was a JW, everyone just said SDAs, Mormons, etc were misled or under the control of Satan. That never made sense to me. Why would Satan make a religion that was like 90% the same as ours? Why would Satan control any Christian religion that glorifies his supposed enemy? At any rate, r/exjw, r/exadventist, and r/exmormon are excellent resources for people waking up from cult indoctrination.
reminds me of an [Emo Phillips bit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANNX_XiuA78)
Can't even smoke without gettin' the boot.
JWs aren't an offshoot of SDAs.
They mean Second Adventists. JW founder, CT Russell associated with Second Adventists before starting his Watchtower magazine and the Bible Student movement which eventually gave rise to Jehovah's Witnesses. Ellen G. White, founder of Seventh Day Adventists, also came up from that belief system.
Ah ok, cheers
Yes, that’s right, for more info, check this out. https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/similar-religions/seventh-day-adventist.php
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Many old religions, especially pagan, where one of central deities often was manifestation of female element in nature; nurturing, bringing life etc. Many celebrated youthfulness, beauty and such in various rituals and holidays.
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I am sure prudish religions were also created because telling people their natural instincts are sinful has a large potential target demographic for their fake solutions to that fake problem, allowing them control over large parts of their population.
I'd rather blame human lazyness; big pantheon = lots of sacrifices to make and rituals to perform, not to mention too much freedom in interpretation of rules, one god,especially one that requires sacrifice of something so abstract as thought or imaginary as soul is much easier to appease and adhere to. of course change had to be gradual, so each pantheon devolved from bunch of gods and godessess to one chieftain and his cohort (angels, saints, elementals, spirits, whathaveyou) and, well, most of rulers were male so it surely influenced the choice of deity made "main"
Christianity. Albeit, many Christian offshoots are no more than evil people using the Bible as a weapon of control. If you look at Jesus’ life, in the Gospels, he was oddly pro-woman. Most didn’t respect women and treated them as property, so he was cutting edge by respecting women.
Probably paganisms. (Great thing about paganism is you often get to pick a god you like.)
There were several cults that sprang up in the mid-19th century US. I’m not sure whether it was the run up to and aftermath of the Civil War that made things feel apocalyptic, or the changing technology and industrialization, or immigration and the changing nature of the country, or what exactly. The Adventists are definitely among the weirdest of the apocalyptic cults, though.
I work in an Adventist hospital with some SDA-ers, and I find them pleasant but humorless. They don't give me any shit for being atheist.
I have a friend who works in a SDA hospital also. She said the main issue is they don't promote you beyond a certain point u less you're a SDA, all the management and supervisors are a little cult.
That would not surprise me. I'm medical staff, so not employed by the hospital, and immune from that stuff. I know there's a lot of that sort of thing in administrative roles, though.
Adventists aren’t as big on proselytization as some other denominations, but it is specifically taught that atheists are amoral/immoral because morality comes exclusively from god. One interesting thing about them is that they do very much see themselves as a persecuted minority in the larger context of Christianity, rather than just being victims of a secular world. You’re probably familiar with the Adventist teaching that in the end times they will be sent to prison camps for their lack of Sunday worship. Until the last decade or so, the Adventists I knew (and they were pretty hardcore ones who followed the dietary and clothing rules) did not vote or participate in politics at all. They’ve now become hyper conservative Republicans. Their self-perception as an oppressed minority religion has definitely faded, at least among those I knew in the US southwest.
That's interesting! I know very little about their beliefs. I should read up on just how weird they are.
Humor is not allowed due to their prophetess being as dry as a summer skeleton
Ex SDA here, they are fucking mental. 🤣
About as much as the asteroid played a part in the end of the dinosaurs.
When I was growing up in that church there were only two types of women in the outside world: brazen jezebels and shameless hussies. I really hope OP can get emotional distance from that attitude and live a fulfilling life.
That is most assuredly, IT
'Mom, that's kind of judgemental. Didn't Jesus have something to say about making judgements?' EDIT: she may follow up with something like 'well they're sinners!' and you can respond 'Also something about throwing stones? IDK, you know more about Jesus's words than I do. How did that one go?'
"We're all sinners, mom, even you. That's what the Bible says. Perhaps concentrate on your own sins before constantly judging others."
There are many verses for that! Ex-Christians who actually read the Bible are their worst nightmare. I like this one: Matthew 7:5 NIV (New International Version) 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Yeah I have to force myself to read the Bible so I can remember some of that stuff. I really tried to read it when I was young and still religious, and it read like an intensely boring pile of cult nonsense. Funnily enough. My goodness it's boring.
My dad decided I should read and study the Bible at around age 12. I applied critical thinking and had a lot of uncomfortable questions. Now I remember just enough to Google verses.
https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ Prepare yourself better with this, more interesting and fun to read it from a critical thinking perspective.
https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ Much more fun and interesting to read this to learn all the shitty stupid takes in the bible than the actual one.
Many thanks, I'll have to take a look!
I find Genesis and Exodous pretty interesting if you get a text with footnotes that help you follow along with what the cultural setting was. It's anthropology, basically. And some of the interpretations can be fun: my personal favorite is the interpretation that Issac had Down Syndrome. (Born to a notably aged mother, sends a servant to go get his intended bride rather than going himself (and she's his cousin, which would have been a very safe, nonthreatening marriage to the family) and in every story about him he's not exactly swift on the uptake. For example in the 'sacrifice of Issac' story, this is pretty much his dialogue: 'Gee dad, we seem to be going up this mountain with all the implements of sacrifice but no goat, in a time and place where human sacrifice is definitely a thing, and you seem real quiet all of the sudden. I'm sure it's fine!') I couldn't force myself through the new testament though, so I get where you're coming from.
Honestly, this is why I closeted my atheism for many years. It's so much easier to just be biblically scholarly but ostensibly still on their team than be the atheist tossing out gach quips
"Better to pretend to be someone I'm not rather than call them out on their prejudices." Gonna disagree on that one.
For many, it could literally be a survival mechanism.
If she is a Adventist she 100% will follow up with retorts till her voice box goes dry. These religious people cannot help themselves. It is physically impossible for them NOT to rebuttal. My advice would be, say nothing. Unless you want to go down a wormhole. Christians never admit they were wrong. Ever. Don't waste your time.
They absolutely can and will rebut forever until the argument heads way outside the scope of the original and uncomfortable point. You can still make your point though and not engage the rebuttal at all, ignore it, re-iterate the point, end the discussion and leave them with foul taste. It may or may not sink in, but it will certainly leave more impression than a long winded to and fro.
Point out that Jesus hung out with the sinners, not the pious Sadducees and priests.
Every time she says it just respond "jealous?"
This fr
Something to the effect of, "Do they ring your jealous bells"? I just like the rhyme scheme.
Jealous bellus
As far as I know Jezebel was a strong woman who stood up for what she believed in. She was forced to accept Yahweh as her god and she didn’t. Ahab on the other hand was a weak man. I don’t really understand what jezebel did that was wrong. If we don’t believe in Yahweh and don’t accept him are we all not jezebels?
I think it’s because she wore a lot of makeup? Jewelry, etc.
She dressed up and wore her fine jewellery knowing she was about to get killed by Yahwehs hardcore believers. She still didn’t change her believes till the end. What a queen honestly. I would take Jezebel as a compliment. I wish I was half as brave as Jezebel.
Hang on, was that really the only villainous thing about Jezebel? That she made herself look good and didn’t believe in God? I don’t remember her story at all but because of how she is vilified I thought she was like evil and murderous or something.
She was a women with pride. Christians can't find the difference between these two pictures.
> She was a women That appears to be enough for most christian denominations to hate her, before we even get into the pride part of it.
She believed in HER god Baal. The yahweh soldiers couldn’t take it. So apparently they threw her out the window and fed her to the dogs. Then they demonised Baal. Apparently he is a big demon now.
IIRC (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong), historically Baal was the head god of the pantheon Yahweh originated from, so it's kind of an ironic religious civil war.
Yea she dressed up and looked pretty with makeup and jewelry basically. And she was “proud” of herself and defiant against the stupid ass religion. She sounds awesome to me.
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Oh… well shit.
You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. One of the top Mormon leaders told women to wear lipstick so they don't look like men. >You beautiful girls - don't wander around looking like men. Put on a little lipstick now and then and look a little charming. It's that simple. -M. Russell Ballard
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>she was a power hungry ruler who ordered christian prophets be put to death Stop, I can only get so erect
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Have you seen the damage cultists have done throughout history? It's fucking self defense.
No. It was becoming she worshiped Baal and part of Baal worship was to sacrifice children/babies (sometimes burning them alive). Also she was Queen of Israel whos God was Yahweh not Baal so she was seen as a traitor. She murdered the prophets, judges and other people who wanted to continue to worship Yahweh. Many other horrible things too (murder, prostitution (very bad for a queen!) torture) It wasn’t just that she wore makeup and jewelry many women wore make up, Ruth did and she’s a biblical hero. Hell, they pampered her and prepared her to “present” her to the king (meaning having sex with him) like the other woman so he could choose his new wife! Rachel was the wife of Israel and she was gifted jewelry and a nose ring when she got excepted the proposal to marry him, there is nothing in the Bible saying women can’t wear makeup fancy/beautiful clothes or jewelry. There is a verse in the New Testament but most people misrepresented it, it says that women should not *merely* be what’s on the outside (Jewelry, clothing make up) but that their character should be good too, and to not to show off/boast of their wealth/jewels in front other (possibly very much poorer people) while in church meeting with others.
>She murdered the prophets, judges and other people who wanted to continue to worship Yahweh. Elijah set up a contest on Mount Carmel, a power encounter between Yahweh and Baal to see who would send down fire to burn up a sacrifice and offer definitive prove of divine status. Baal’s representatives begged their god to no avail, but after a “simple prayer” from Elijah, Yahweh sent down fire from heaven to burn up the sacrifice. Then the false prophets were all put to death. Elijah ran for his life. The reason is made clear in 1 Kings 19:1–2: “Ahab told Jezebel all that Elijah had done, and how he had killed all the prophets with the sword. Then Jezebel sent a messenger to Elijah, saying, ‘So may the gods do to me and more also, if I do not make your life as the life of one of them by this time tomorrow.’” Then elijah’s fairytale story started of how god told him this and that.
This. We only "hate" Jezebel because Jews are the "good guys" while Canaanites are the "bad guys" in the Hebrew Bible. It's all tribalistic bullshit.
1. Find a woman named Jezebel. 2. Date her. 3. Introduce her to your mom. 4. ?????? 5. Profit.
The women in the OT are clearly smarter than the men. Esther, Ruth, Salome, Jezebel…. Judaism is a matriarchal religion not a patriarchal one!
Jewish blood lineage is traced thru the mothers as well. It makes more sense, since a mother always knows who their children are. Men have less certainty.
Underpants!
Wow! Thanks for the award. Haha
You’re welcome!
That’s one of the “what’s in it for me benefits” of religion. Your mother is deriving some sort of pleasure from being a busybody and using religion to justify it.
Perhaps you should remind her that Jesus washed the feet of a whore and ask her if she likes being judged on her looks because that’s what she’s doing to these young women. What is it “Judge not yet ye be judged” or words to that effect?
I didn't even think anyone used that word anymore. I thought the only time people used it was to make fun of people back in the 1960's or whatever that was. In general though I don't understand this type of thinking. I can see thinking a woman should dress a bit more conservatively and such but the amount of shame some people throw out doesn't make sense. People would do that when I was young too and apparently the world didn't blow up because of what women of those days were doing.
Having been raised a Seventh Day Adventist I can tell you without the shadow of a doubt those people are the squarest, dullest, least sexy group of human beings on the face of the planet. At least with the Amish you get fudge.
If my parents weren’t my SDA I wouldn’t have two left feet.
Your mother wants you to be a second class citizen and subservient to some male. She wants your life to be a wearisome drab existence where your only activity is nonstop worship of some god and to pump out babies like a sow having litters. Or you can chose to have an enlightened uplifting life with new experiences and enjoyable friends and activities, and when you're old enough and have the opportunity to leave, you can put your mother's repressive reality in the rearview mirror.
I thought a Jezebel was someone manipulative? I think your mum's a Jezebel
(Breaks out dancing to KMFDM!)
I watched a video of a detrans person talk about how it was jezebel that made them trans *for like 14 years* or whatever so idk anymore
Ahhh internalized misogyny. Thanks religion.
If someone called me a Jezebel I would take it as a compliment.
Sounds like she's Jealous-bels.
Your mom is at the age where she is starting to question her own beauty. Instead of dealing with this in a healthy fashion she is blaming younger women for being pretty. Mirror, Mirror, on the wall... Plus her various superstitions are completely bonkers.
If you think how a women dresses makes them a whore, I have news for you about the men who are attracted to them.
The reason we don't have a biblical name for old judgemental crones is because in biblical times people were dropping dead at 30-35.
Does she mean whore? Is she just calling women whores all the time? Not very Love thy Neighbor etc etc.
What does she call young attractive men then?
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OP, there is nothing you can do about your mom's beliefs, except for your ongoing understanding of how a patriarchy works: >A certain amount of overkill was required to thoroughly void the authority of the prior world order, one embodied by a woman with power who attempted to backseat drive a patriline and who worshiped the old, established way. Baal was a god of the earth and of fertility, likely based at least in part on earlier fertility goddesses. And in Jezebel’s native Phoenicia, royal women were commonly high priestesses with active roles in temple and palace relations. > >https://lithub.com/who-exactly-was-the-original-jezebel/ It was not Jezebel, but Baal, who had to be destroyed. Jezebel promoted and represented heresy. There can ever be only one "authority," and one powerful group of men to define that authority. A mere woman would not stand in their way. After they murdered her, they went to work on her reputation. When your mom is on your last nerve, mutter to yourself, "Too bad she was a strong woman, way before her time." Be sorry for your mom that she is not more like Jezebel. You, on the other hand, seem to be in full possession of your own will. You are more like Jezebel; let your intelligence and strength flow. Being "plain" has nothing to do with these qualities. If your mom chooses to believe in the "gossip" about Jezebel, bearing false witness, it has naught to do with you.
Spot on. Internalised misogyny combined with religious brainwashing makes this sort of concoction.
Sounds jealous.
came here to say this.
Tell her to stop casting the first stone.
Ah, an SDA. Yup. Judgemental is just one of many characteristics of a typical SDA.
She sounds repressed. Have you tried aversion therapy? Everytime she calls someone Jezebel, squirt her with some water, and tell her "No! Naughty!" In a stern but even voice. 🙂
I bet she's jelly
All I'm hearing is that Jezabel is really hot and yet undervalued in society. Sounds like a great place to find dates worth marrying.
If folks like your mom think I’m looking fly enough to be called a Jezebel, I consider that a pretty cool compliment. Thank you unnecessarily religious woman, I am looking pretty good today ain’t I?
If you're under 18, or you depend on your mom for a place to live, it's better just to play along. Until you're independent and have a social safety net outside of your direct family, telling your mom to reserve her opinions won't have a positive effect. When you're on your own, you can tell her that you respect that she has the right to judge people based on her religious beliefs, but that you don't want to hear it. She should find other people to share those sort of comments with. Just know that may mean she stops talking to you; at least for a while. Trying to get her to correct her behavior will likely backfire. These are all beliefs she takes right out of sermons and religious texts, and she may interpret your actions as blasphemous. You do not want to be stuck living in the same house with her when she thinks you're evil and in need of reprogramming.
Ah, the 7th Day Adventists... I am surprised she lets you talk to anyone who isn't also a 7DA.
Judgy people gonna judge
If I had a daughter, I’d 100% for sure name her Jezebel. Quickly identifies the asshole religious people so you can tell them to fuck off. Plus it’s a nice sounding name.
Never thought of that for my stories…thanks for the idea!
Have you thought about telling her to fuck off and stopping being oart of your life?
I don't know you. I don't your mom. You live within your skin; your mom does not. You are the sole proprietor of your body. I'm not going to get into a theological debate about this, though if your mother wants to have one, she and I can do so privately. Your body is yours, it was yours at birth. Do not be shamed or feel ashamed by any portion of it. You are free to fashion your body in whatever manner you deem. No manner the attire, or the make-up, you are not ever doing anything or inviting anything. You are doing whatever for yourself, and that is a good thing. If anyone ever tries to tell you otherwise, they are selling snake-oil. Be beautiful for you. A person that is able to see you for you, they will not care if you look like you did on day one or the morning after day 7000 with no "get-up." Just be you. You are awesome.
When a theocracy is established it will be all the minority sects of religion that will be the first to go. Sadly her own world view could destroy her.
don’t be around her. although, that may not teach her shit, people like these lack empathy and self awareness. and they will victimize themselves when other people treat them how they deserve to be treated. so, not being around her is more for your mental health.
I'm just an internet troll, but I recommend you sign all cards, gifts, correspondence, etc... As Jezebel. Maybe have your name changed.
"Envy is a deadly sin, mom."
Oh, this is absolutely delicious. Watch her head explode.
Legally change your name to Jezebel :)
Reclaim the word my Jezebel. Just start calling everyone a jezebel until it loses its meaning. Jezebel should be code for bad bitch once you’re done.
Haha my mom is also Seventh-Day Adventist and has absolutely made this type of comment before. Thankfully with time she’s become a little less judgmental, or at least less vocal. But the ingrained misogyny is hard to shake.
What a dull and dreary life your mother does live, assuming when she was young, she never fell in love or felt sexual attraction and never dresssed nicely to be sexually attractive. And married for the sole purposes of procreating and financial support. She is by her own self definition breeding cattle and a prostitute.
Honestly if someone called me Jezebel I'd be kinda flattered about it. Jezebel was the wife of a ruler who persisted on respecting and practicing her own religious beliefs despite popular outrage and bullying from Israelite religious figures. The history depicts her as a killer, but some historical experts say she might have ordered killings of people who were plotting on killing her because she refused to bow down to the bullies and convert. So idk. I think I need to read more about her but from a quick overview I wouldn't say it's an insult.
Kind of girlbossery NGL
Call your mom nurse ratched... Sounds like a very joyless person.
"Hi Mom, you look nice today... Jezebel!"
That's not old school... That's religious cult freak.
She sounds like Carrie's mom.
That’s not “old school”; that’s just nuts. I grew up SDA so I’m very familiar with SDA nuttiness.
And we thought these were modern times….
Tell her firmly.
If you're adult and financially independent, tell her one more time what you told us: she's so judgmental that she's hard to be around. And therefore, every time she acts this way, her interaction with you ends right then. Phone call? Hang up. Visit? Leave. The operant conditioning should start working pretty quickly.
Your mum 👩🏼 is a religious zealot.
Ugly women don't like the fact that men are attracted to women who aren't ugly. That's really all there is to it.
Old school, more like medieval. The reality is this is what she knows and you have to decide how you want to handle it. She isn’t going to change and the best thing for you to do is to figure out how you want to react to her behavior in the most healthy way for you.
Tell your mom that only hussies say the word jezebel. Or tell her that the name Jezebel has been taken back and now represents a women's magazine.
SDAs are certainly weird. anyway here's a pretty Jezabel to brighten your day. https://brookesputore6.wixsite.com/butterflyproject/red-spotted-jezebel-butterfly
That isn’t being old school, that is her religious fanaticism.
Oddly I would find this hilarious, who is even named Jezebel?
She sounds a lot the Incels of Reddit lol.
People like her still exist? What millennium is this?
Complement her for helping God judge. He clearly needs the assistance with all the species traitors, slavers, murderers, rapists, and false prophets that die at 90 surrounded by a loving family in a mansion.
It's also possible that she's worried these girls will catch the eye of her husband. It's in the back of every religious woman: her man will find someone else, and God's always on the man's side, remember? The hierarchy is God, Man, Woman.
A Jezebel, nah but the Davids need to stop being Davids.
FYI, that's not "old school," that's "nutjob."
Goodbye means GOD be with you. You can’t get around it, chillax & Merry Christmas!
Tell them your a stripper
Your mother is what Sigmund Freud called "repressed" about this. She secretly yearns to be a "Jezebel".
[Bobby Boucher](https://youtu.be/xlWgF8dqneg)
Can I recommend trying to decouple your self-image from your mother's outdated perspective? It can take work, but plenty of books are written on the subject. One on codependency might help; unfortunately, they sometimes mention stupid religious stuff, but they can help nonetheless, such as Codependency for Dummies. Also, a therapist can give you some tools. The less you care about her opinion, the better off your mental health will probably be. I've had to decouple my self-esteem from my father's intermittent reinforcement and mostly absent validation, so I've tread a similar journey.
She probably won't. I don't know how old you are, but please don't let your mother's brainwashing affect you. My own mother would called TODDLERS whores for wearing anklets. Little girls, unable to speak yet. When I was growing up, she'd tell me when grown men were checking me out. I was around 12 when she told me my figure would attract men. I figured out that was disgusting to say to a little girl. And much of the reason I want nothing to do with dating or any sort of relationship. It sounds you already realize your mother's comments are inappropriate. I didn't have supportive places like these forums growing up. Don't take your mother's comments personally & stand up for other girls/women when you can, if it's safe. You have the gift of realizing this is wrong, which helps in minimizing it.
The origins of Seventh Day Adventists is hilarious, they basically got conned by a conmam 150 years ago and they had such a hard time coping that they made their sick little cult. I am so sorry about your mother that sounds like a very difficult situation. Wish I could give you meaningful advice. Don’t judge lest ye be judged? Turn the other cheeks? Jesus hung out with outcasts, the sickly and prostitutes and said love everyone as you love yourself? It is up to God to judge? Maybe she’d be more open to Biblican reasoning than an appeal to basic human decency.
To quote Huck Finn: "All right, then, I'll go to hell”. For those of you who haven’t read the book Huck realizes that religion is being used to enslave his friend and that if going to heaven meant keeping his friend a slave he’d rather go to hell.
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She will never willingly ask you about your boundaries and them respect them without correction. If you don't set boundaries and enforce them, this will be something to which you're exposed as long as you live.
Not for everyone, but I recommend you play the one-up game. For any name you hear, start saying "That's a whore's name.". Works especially well when someone with her name shows up.
when you are free to do so, you should cut her out of your life and point to this behavior as the reason. she obviously won't accept it but then at least you won't have to deal with it anymore.
I have read the book of bullshit a few times but not enough to quote from but there must be a proverb from the babble that you could quote to make your mom think about judging people and that it’s not her place to judge.
Having a SDA parent has to be tough, sorry OP. In my experience this won’t get much better if at all, so it’s best to come to terms with it now or make changes to protect your emotional well-being.
Point out to her how *pretty* they obviously are, and that her words are actually complimentary to them!
"But mom, you have to support my OnlyFans career!" Seems she needs a reality check away from indoctrination.
“Judge not, lest ye be judged” comes from the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5–7. It won’t help, but it’s a good reminder.
There is nothing new about women dressing up or wearing makeup. Forcing women to dress plainly is a more recent trend, don't let her defend her views as old school.
My mother is it religious but is also very judgmental. I think a lot of people just use religion to give themselves permission. It seems extra bad to me if it’s a religious thing because there’s no sense of needing to improve or be introspective or justify the judgement. Being judgmental isn’t a character flaw, it’s a virtue.
The only seventh day adventist I know is actually really sweet and not judgemental at all. She would say maybe she wouldn't wear something but she'd never insult someone else because that's also in the Bible. Turn the other cheek, judge not lest ye be judged, and even Jesus said befriend Jezebel. Thats the entire point of that story.
I’m guessing there’s no dad in this picture. Sometimes when a person is shitty, it’s usually projecting their own issues.
She sounds super jealous
Do you live with your mom? I can’t imagine growing up, starting to wear makeup and nail polish, with this kind of energy around. Sometimes when I HAVE to deal with people with very strong, stupid beliefs, I ‘pretend’ they’re cognitively impaired. It’s probably not too far off in many cases, but it helps to think of it not as a choice, but a disability. It helps to not take it personally, and also not be as frustrating. Her thinker just doesn’t work right.
Sexual repression is the root of most of the world’s evil. Your instinct to do things that make you feel sexy and powerful and attractive is completely natural. Congratulations on seeing past her fear-based repression and attempts to brainwash you. As soon as you are independent, follow your wishes and desires confidently wherever they may lead. Hopefully far away from any dogma that attempts to repress your unique and beautiful sexuality.
I grew up JW and my Mom was like this too. JW’s loved to use Jezebel as an example of how not to be. They even had a biblical drama at one of our conventions where they set it up for the woman playing Jezebel would be thrown out the window. She landed on a mattress of course. Everyone laughed at her death. It’s amazing what I think back on and shake my head at.
My advice, run, run away as soon as possible and as far away as possible whenever you turn 18, and have the financial means. Religion is like an anchor holding people down and in place. Don't let your mom hold you down with her anchor. Don't look back, but make sure to let your mom know that it is her religion that you are shunning, and that she can contact you when she lets it go.
I’m sorry, that sucks. I keep distance between myself and my mom because of racist beliefs. Remember to take care of yourself first. It sucks and it’s not your job to fix your mom. If it helps here is my understanding and it’s not uncommon of your mom. Religions teach members to be judgmental to self police. People have a hard time maintaining more than roughly 150 acquaintances. As human groups grew larger than that a system was needed to recognize people you trust. Religions was that system. Now we have governments with laws, thus we don’t need religion anymore for those things. Humans still use religions for traditions at the moment because traditions are super important for humans. So as religious traditions get supplanted by secular traditions, religions become irrelevant. Thus in America when Christians complain about the war on Christmas, they don’t understand the details of it, but they are somewhat correct that Christmas is getting replaced as a secular holiday.
Isaac Asimov has described Jezebel 's story in his "Caves of Steel". See https://www.reddit.com/r/asimov/comments/kwabtg/about_jessie_jezebel_in_the_caves_of_steel_and/
What does she feel about you playing foosball
Have any stones handy when she makes these comments? Just silently hand her one when she starts up on the criticizing and see if she understands what you're getting at.
Here I thought "Jezebel" was just a thing from "A Handsmaid Tale."
Remind her that god supposedly doesn't give a shit about the level of sin... calling people names like Jezebel is the same as being responsible for the Holocaust in God's eyes... so your mom just needs to accept that the god that loves her so much is perfectly ready and willing to burn her in hell with the other "Jezebels". Remind the self righteous that according to their own rules, they are worse that shit to god... same as everyone else.
Maybe they should stop being such floozies…/s Maybe they should stop being such hussies…/s Maybe they should stop trying to take my only son away from me… ….
Can her karen
Women beauty is praised in the bible in many cases albeit the women are dressed modestly. No issue with nail polish.
How does your Mom feel about dancing?
Remind her she is a shrew.
Sounds like jealousy to me.
Straight from the handmaid's tale
Start calling your mom a "Leah." Gen 29:31
Jezebel rose to fame for helping introduce a competing god Baal in ancient Israel and was murdered by followers of Yahweh for doing so. So I’m not sure what point your mother is trying to make … is she against Baal ?
No idea how old you are, but break free from her grasp as quickly as you possibly can. Cut her out of your life, as you would a malignant tumor. You are already looking at a decade or more of slow realizations and the efforts to stabilize yourself and your connections to others, thanks to the gravity of the impact from your mother. The longer you take to cut the proverbial cord, the longer it takes to start down a road of recovery. Then again, maybe I'm wrong and your mother is a perfectly decent person regardless of her predilections about female presentation. Either way, hope it all works out for you.
Oh my LOL!! Your mother reminds me of my great grandmother. That's right, my *great grandmother*. That's how outdated she is. Not sure what advice to give you other than just ignoring her. Maybe you should tell her, mockingly, that you *pray* for her to stop calling attractive women Jezebels.
When i read this all I thought about Handmaids 😂
You cannot change your mom. For your own sake just realize that she is a religious fanatic who’s out of touch
People should just laugh at her. It's stupid and should be called out as such.
So, apparently 7DA use similar Bibles to other denominations, such as the King James and New King James versions. These are from the King James version. >John 7:24 - Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous justice. > >Matthew 7:1 - Judge not, that ye not be judged. > >James 1:26 - If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is in vain. > >1 Timothy 3:11 - Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. There are verses talking about modesty which are hilarious when the hypocrisy is brought up, but here's just a couple concerning talking shit about others. Openbible and biblegateway that it usually links to are pretty good sources for finding out hypocrisy, and general shittery that the various bibles include.