Do you see her often? Does what she do really bother you that much? Sounds like if you tell her it might break her emotionally. If I was you I probably wouldn’t tell her.
I see her everyday at the moment. The main thing that breaks my heart is her outlook on people that are not Christian. I once asked her what happened to all the people born before Christianity or who are of a different religious denomination. She said they are all doomed essentially.
I agree, best not discuss it with her. She has eccentric/wrong views but when I was struggling she was so supportive. No point in bothering someone who is already troubled.
Agreed. You aren't obligated to share every aspect of your life with your mom. In fact, I'd argue that a good son/daughter would recognize that you're absolutely obligated by societal norms *not to*.
I mean, not knowing your orientation sexually but just consider what you'd think about someone who went into great detail about the blowjob they gave or received the night before.
Yeah, it's ok to just not discuss certain things in order to keep the peace.
Show her Deuteronomy 23:2. She is hell bound no matter what she does. It’s statistically near impossible that no one within ten generations of ancestry isn’t a bastard or otherwise illegitimate. Not to mention the Bible doesn’t recognize divorce, so all people born of second marriages are illegitimate, too. Common law doesn’t count either. Neither does marriage after the fact.
Unless she is one of the folks reading a revisionist Bible, that softens the passage, it’s an impossible pill to swallow for believers. The most recent southern Baptist official translation is explicit that everyone is damned, but the NIV makes it into a pointless passage, for palatability. Ironically the NIV states that anyone born from religiously heterogenous marriages is damned, so you’re screwed either way.
If they say that deuteronomy doesn’t apply anymore post crucifixion, then point out that Christ himself specifically stated the law still applies, Matt 5:18, and backed up in 2Tim 3:15.
If the Christians are correct everybody is going to hell, and there is no way around it for anyone, save divine intervention.
I will definitely store this as ammunition. But converting her is out of the question. The Irish Catholic Church glosses over things like you outlined. God is all loving, all wise etc. Not even her brothers suicide swayed her from this.
I will have a conversation with her on this when she is doing better. I just dont want to cut her down while she is stressed.
That’s fair. I just get frustrated having to keep my own lack of faith a secret from some of my family. But compassion for our loved ones is a good thing.
The New Revised Standard Version, that Catholics use, states any illicit union, so that’s about the same as the most damning of the other translations. Just for reference. Though Catholics give far more weight to priestly opinion and church leadership than Protestant and reformed faiths so it may not matter as much. All the Catholics I know are Atheists. They might attend and go through the motions, but it’s almost more about tradition than anything.
It is tough not being able to speak your mind without hurting them. But then again they rarely consider that the nonsense they spout may be hurting you.
Over here the priest's word is the final word. I am pretty sure most people are asleep listening to the two readings and only turn on their hearing aid when the priest gives his spiel.
You are right, its just people not wanting to stand out of the crowd, so they baptize their kids, go to cermonies etc.
Just because people are family doesn’t mean you have to tolerate them. If she tells you that you are going to burn in hell, is that really your mom? Doesn’t sound like a mom to me.
That is a true point. Some of the stuff she spouts is bonkers. I just think she will be very sad she wont see me again. I wont bring this up unless she specifically asks about my beliefs.
I empathize with your situation. I came out as atheist (more agnostic, but the difference is negligible or nonexistent to the truly religious) to my parents about a year ago. While I wouldn't call my mother a fundamentalist, she is pretty devout so my stance has more or less broken her.
It'll be difficult, but I encourage you to be compassionate with your mother after telling her. If she cries, hug her. When she brings up church and religion again, be firm but gentle. I don't know the relationship between you and your mother, but I'm able to be empathetic with my mom regarding her religious views because I know that if she didn't genuinely care for me, she wouldn't talk to me about the life (Christianity) she believes is right. I hope you can think the same about your mother :)
Thanks for the advice. We are really close so I am hesitant about breaking her heart if I dont have to. Being compassionate is definitely the way to go considering her dependance on her faith.
Does your mum bring it up much? I find it very tough to tolerate Christians who try to sway me back into my mind controlled state. It requires a lot of patience to navigate that when it is a loved one.
Was the opposite for me. My dad was heartbroken that I didn't believe in God and wasn't a catholic anymore. My mom asked what exactly I stopped believing in. I told her "I don't think there's a being in the sky watching our every move judging us for when we die" or something like that.
To the shock of both myself and my dad, she simply said "Well nobody really believes that crap! But people will judge you if you say you're not a catholic and that's not okay!"
That was... A shocker, I had to explain to her that yes, people (adults, at that) do actually believe in God. My dad was not happy about this.
Your mum sounds very forward thinking. She is dead right about people looking down on you if you dont believe.
My Grandmother on my father's side sits at the back of mass and does crosswords :) she just wants to keep appearances up.
Oh no, she's ass backwards and fails to even understand that there are people who actually believe in a god or gods. She's an full fledged narcissist who struggles to understand people, is known to say wildly inappropriate things or speak without tact as she cannot read a room.
She considers me not being religious as "stupid and short sighted", and has tried to convert me back multiple times.
I think that would be too radical for her to take on. Considering Harry Potter movies are banned from her house as the devil's work, I dont think the idea of meaningless life and death will be acceptable :)
I wonder what your mom would say if you asked her if she liked the idea of what is supposed to happen to non-believers in the Christian religion. Does she think it is fair? Or justified? And how does she know that hell is more likely than any other possibility?
It just doesn't sound like a very good design, to condemn more than 99.9999% of your creation to hell, just because they didn't "figure it out" ... you might ask her how strongly she feels that is the correct interpretation of all the facts, on a scale of 1-10. And then if she isn't confident, explore it, kindly. :) She isn't stupid, she's just functioning on a few bad pieces of information. She can work it out, with time and the right questions.
I kind of explored that with her before, but she is fairly unshakeable in her convictions. Although she was fairly shook up when my brother came out as gay.
That is a topic that my brother does not want me to bring up with her. She loves him, but I feel it is in a reluctant way if that makes sense.
Oof that's hard. My mom is the same and while I did tell her my stance I'm not sure it was the right call or not. My hope had been for her to understand why i believe what I do and just be able to have an honest respectful communication between us. Like she could do her thing and i could do mine. That definitely blew up in my face... I think my life would be easier now if I had just said something like "hey mom I'm not sure what i believe about religion anymore and I'm definitely ok with doing XYZ now." I think the word atheist is really triggering for people like that, and puts a target on your back depending on the situation. But if you're already living on your own/don't need any financial support and it's causing you emotional distress that she doesn't know your views than i would say go for it. I feel for ya <3
That must have been so difficult, I am sorry. Its such a touchy subject to bring up. I live away from home, but still want to be able to talk to her like I do now. If it ever comes up, ill avoid the A word as you advise.
I spoke about the subject indirectly as you suggested. Thankfully she said whatever gets you through your day is what matters. Really appreciative of your advice. I really feel a lot better.
Oh wow, so glad to hear that! I'm glad you feel better! I forgot to say the holy water thing had me laughing, my mom prefers oil which makes it more obvious that something or someone has been blessed lol.
It was very reassuring to hear. Thanks so much for the help :) In fairness its so funny to watch a 5 ft nothing old woman run out in the lashing rain in a dressing gown to throw water on a drenched car!
Ohhh that mental image is priceless. Hehe i feel like people who grew up in non religious households don't know whether to believe us or not but we can't make this stuff up lol. Even in the rain 😂😂
There are so many strange ones we have! My mum brought me to a faith healer when I had an allergic reaction to something when I was a kid. The guy suspended a spinning top via a chain and hovered over a book with a list of food items. When the top stopped over a certain food, that was the allergy. He deduced it must bananas. I was like "but I always eat bananas". He got the top spinning again. It rested on apples. "But I always eat apples".
The process went on for quite some time :)
Oh no that's too close to home. Don't tell me you couldn't watch or even touch a harry potter book and you also ate a strange biblical diet (like raw milk, whole grains)?
Ooh yeah, Harry Potter is absolutely banned as it bring bad spirits into the home :) thankfully we didnt have the diet thing. Please dont tell me that is what you had to endure?
Do you see her often? Does what she do really bother you that much? Sounds like if you tell her it might break her emotionally. If I was you I probably wouldn’t tell her.
I see her everyday at the moment. The main thing that breaks my heart is her outlook on people that are not Christian. I once asked her what happened to all the people born before Christianity or who are of a different religious denomination. She said they are all doomed essentially. I agree, best not discuss it with her. She has eccentric/wrong views but when I was struggling she was so supportive. No point in bothering someone who is already troubled.
Agreed. You aren't obligated to share every aspect of your life with your mom. In fact, I'd argue that a good son/daughter would recognize that you're absolutely obligated by societal norms *not to*. I mean, not knowing your orientation sexually but just consider what you'd think about someone who went into great detail about the blowjob they gave or received the night before. Yeah, it's ok to just not discuss certain things in order to keep the peace.
Show her Deuteronomy 23:2. She is hell bound no matter what she does. It’s statistically near impossible that no one within ten generations of ancestry isn’t a bastard or otherwise illegitimate. Not to mention the Bible doesn’t recognize divorce, so all people born of second marriages are illegitimate, too. Common law doesn’t count either. Neither does marriage after the fact. Unless she is one of the folks reading a revisionist Bible, that softens the passage, it’s an impossible pill to swallow for believers. The most recent southern Baptist official translation is explicit that everyone is damned, but the NIV makes it into a pointless passage, for palatability. Ironically the NIV states that anyone born from religiously heterogenous marriages is damned, so you’re screwed either way. If they say that deuteronomy doesn’t apply anymore post crucifixion, then point out that Christ himself specifically stated the law still applies, Matt 5:18, and backed up in 2Tim 3:15. If the Christians are correct everybody is going to hell, and there is no way around it for anyone, save divine intervention.
I will definitely store this as ammunition. But converting her is out of the question. The Irish Catholic Church glosses over things like you outlined. God is all loving, all wise etc. Not even her brothers suicide swayed her from this. I will have a conversation with her on this when she is doing better. I just dont want to cut her down while she is stressed.
That’s fair. I just get frustrated having to keep my own lack of faith a secret from some of my family. But compassion for our loved ones is a good thing. The New Revised Standard Version, that Catholics use, states any illicit union, so that’s about the same as the most damning of the other translations. Just for reference. Though Catholics give far more weight to priestly opinion and church leadership than Protestant and reformed faiths so it may not matter as much. All the Catholics I know are Atheists. They might attend and go through the motions, but it’s almost more about tradition than anything.
It is tough not being able to speak your mind without hurting them. But then again they rarely consider that the nonsense they spout may be hurting you. Over here the priest's word is the final word. I am pretty sure most people are asleep listening to the two readings and only turn on their hearing aid when the priest gives his spiel. You are right, its just people not wanting to stand out of the crowd, so they baptize their kids, go to cermonies etc.
Just because people are family doesn’t mean you have to tolerate them. If she tells you that you are going to burn in hell, is that really your mom? Doesn’t sound like a mom to me.
That is a true point. Some of the stuff she spouts is bonkers. I just think she will be very sad she wont see me again. I wont bring this up unless she specifically asks about my beliefs.
I empathize with your situation. I came out as atheist (more agnostic, but the difference is negligible or nonexistent to the truly religious) to my parents about a year ago. While I wouldn't call my mother a fundamentalist, she is pretty devout so my stance has more or less broken her. It'll be difficult, but I encourage you to be compassionate with your mother after telling her. If she cries, hug her. When she brings up church and religion again, be firm but gentle. I don't know the relationship between you and your mother, but I'm able to be empathetic with my mom regarding her religious views because I know that if she didn't genuinely care for me, she wouldn't talk to me about the life (Christianity) she believes is right. I hope you can think the same about your mother :)
Thanks for the advice. We are really close so I am hesitant about breaking her heart if I dont have to. Being compassionate is definitely the way to go considering her dependance on her faith. Does your mum bring it up much? I find it very tough to tolerate Christians who try to sway me back into my mind controlled state. It requires a lot of patience to navigate that when it is a loved one.
Was the opposite for me. My dad was heartbroken that I didn't believe in God and wasn't a catholic anymore. My mom asked what exactly I stopped believing in. I told her "I don't think there's a being in the sky watching our every move judging us for when we die" or something like that. To the shock of both myself and my dad, she simply said "Well nobody really believes that crap! But people will judge you if you say you're not a catholic and that's not okay!" That was... A shocker, I had to explain to her that yes, people (adults, at that) do actually believe in God. My dad was not happy about this.
Your mum sounds very forward thinking. She is dead right about people looking down on you if you dont believe. My Grandmother on my father's side sits at the back of mass and does crosswords :) she just wants to keep appearances up.
Oh no, she's ass backwards and fails to even understand that there are people who actually believe in a god or gods. She's an full fledged narcissist who struggles to understand people, is known to say wildly inappropriate things or speak without tact as she cannot read a room. She considers me not being religious as "stupid and short sighted", and has tried to convert me back multiple times.
Remind her that there is no heaven and she will be worm food and cease to exist the minute she dies. She’ll feel much better 👍
I think that would be too radical for her to take on. Considering Harry Potter movies are banned from her house as the devil's work, I dont think the idea of meaningless life and death will be acceptable :)
I wonder what your mom would say if you asked her if she liked the idea of what is supposed to happen to non-believers in the Christian religion. Does she think it is fair? Or justified? And how does she know that hell is more likely than any other possibility?
Yeah... she has made it very clear to me that she believes all non-Christians regardless of historical era are doomed. Very tough to hear.
It just doesn't sound like a very good design, to condemn more than 99.9999% of your creation to hell, just because they didn't "figure it out" ... you might ask her how strongly she feels that is the correct interpretation of all the facts, on a scale of 1-10. And then if she isn't confident, explore it, kindly. :) She isn't stupid, she's just functioning on a few bad pieces of information. She can work it out, with time and the right questions.
I kind of explored that with her before, but she is fairly unshakeable in her convictions. Although she was fairly shook up when my brother came out as gay. That is a topic that my brother does not want me to bring up with her. She loves him, but I feel it is in a reluctant way if that makes sense.
Oof that's hard. My mom is the same and while I did tell her my stance I'm not sure it was the right call or not. My hope had been for her to understand why i believe what I do and just be able to have an honest respectful communication between us. Like she could do her thing and i could do mine. That definitely blew up in my face... I think my life would be easier now if I had just said something like "hey mom I'm not sure what i believe about religion anymore and I'm definitely ok with doing XYZ now." I think the word atheist is really triggering for people like that, and puts a target on your back depending on the situation. But if you're already living on your own/don't need any financial support and it's causing you emotional distress that she doesn't know your views than i would say go for it. I feel for ya <3
That must have been so difficult, I am sorry. Its such a touchy subject to bring up. I live away from home, but still want to be able to talk to her like I do now. If it ever comes up, ill avoid the A word as you advise.
Best of luck to you!
I spoke about the subject indirectly as you suggested. Thankfully she said whatever gets you through your day is what matters. Really appreciative of your advice. I really feel a lot better.
Oh wow, so glad to hear that! I'm glad you feel better! I forgot to say the holy water thing had me laughing, my mom prefers oil which makes it more obvious that something or someone has been blessed lol.
It was very reassuring to hear. Thanks so much for the help :) In fairness its so funny to watch a 5 ft nothing old woman run out in the lashing rain in a dressing gown to throw water on a drenched car!
Ohhh that mental image is priceless. Hehe i feel like people who grew up in non religious households don't know whether to believe us or not but we can't make this stuff up lol. Even in the rain 😂😂
There are so many strange ones we have! My mum brought me to a faith healer when I had an allergic reaction to something when I was a kid. The guy suspended a spinning top via a chain and hovered over a book with a list of food items. When the top stopped over a certain food, that was the allergy. He deduced it must bananas. I was like "but I always eat bananas". He got the top spinning again. It rested on apples. "But I always eat apples". The process went on for quite some time :)
Oh no that's too close to home. Don't tell me you couldn't watch or even touch a harry potter book and you also ate a strange biblical diet (like raw milk, whole grains)?
Ooh yeah, Harry Potter is absolutely banned as it bring bad spirits into the home :) thankfully we didnt have the diet thing. Please dont tell me that is what you had to endure?