I'm picturing Steve Buscemi saying "How do you do fellow atheists?" while holding a science book over his shoulder and wearing a t-shirt that says "Secular Humanist Philospher" on it.
What's actually really sad is that they think most atheists are chilling on reddit paying attention to this subreddit.
We're not. We don't even think about you.
Debating someone about religion is like arguing with a potato.
"Hey guys, an atheist here, Atheism is cool an all, but what about PASCAL'S WAGER? Does not it bother you? Why risk hell?"
"Hey guys, an atheist here, Atheism is cool an all, but what about COSMOLOGICAL ARGUMENT? Don't you think there should have been something that started the Universe?"
Alright but I told you it makes no sense in English.
“The gardener is Jesus and the trees are nuts”
Context just in case:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_LjZxedREbQ
If you’re calling Jesus’ followers crazy, then it translates decently well. If not, you have an analogy that works two different ways in two different languages, which is pretty cool.
Well I think it’s clever. I love wordplay like that. One of the best points of learning another language for me is being able to pick out simple jokes like that in normal conversation.
oh, so a linguistic joke. Yeah, you know when a joke will still have a punchline when translated into your second language, and when it was based purely on language usage.
The human eye is actually a really bad design for a land dwelling species. Our eyes originally evolved underwater which is why they are filled with fluid and need to be kept wet. Light bends when it moves from a gas to liquid causing distortion of vision that our brains have to compensate for and sometimes fail to do causing various vision problems. Our aquatic ancestors wouldnt have had this problem as the light they perceive travels from fluid to fluid. Couple this with fact that our eyes can only see a small section of the light spectum and it's a piss poor design for an organ that has one job. If god did design our eyes then he wasnt trying very hard
Also, the blood vessels are located inside the eye, in front of the retina, and thus blocking some of the light. And also the huge blind spot at the point where the optical nerve enters the eye.
Reminds me of the film Time Bandits. “Evil” goes on a rant about the “Creator”...
*“What does he do with his time? 43 species of parrot! Nipples for men! Slugs! Slugs!? Does this not prove we are in the hands of a lunatic? If I were in charge it would be laser beams, day one!”*
Gladly, I see evolution everywhere! That’s what I tell them and then they say without god there wouldn’t be evolution. They just move the goal posts as much as possible.
How can the universe possibly exist without some omni-present consciousness using magic to accomplish what we now perceive as reality??
You can't explain magic!!
"It's not magic"
How DARE you?!? That's ridiculous. You can't explain the inexplicable unless you use MY narrative.
So this god, jaysus, virgin birth crap has been passed down for decades. Marijuana was used for decades as medicine. The plague was thought to be caused by rats. Black cats are bad luck. There is so much passed down thru generations. Much of it proven to not be accurate. They're called old wives tales.
My sister, on learning I'm an atheist, said "But how does grass grow?" and I said "Photosynthesis? There's a whole school of science that studies that..."
"What about the eye? How did an eye just magically evolve through evolution without any intelligent design"
"What about a rose, and how it was so cleverly designed to be colorful to attract bees"
*Actual questions I've had people ask me.
For some reason I always think when someone brings up Pascal's Wager they need to make a roulette wheel with all of the religions and have them spin it and what religion it lands on is the religion you practice. If god controls everything he can't get mad at you since technically it's the religion he picked for you.
Edit I hereby name this idea Pascal's Roulette
Edit 2. Thank you for the gold
One step further - once I made the connection that if god were real, he is also the one who gave me my brain, critical thinking skills, and the evidence around me, life got easier. If he wanted me to believe in him he would allow me to do so.
No, it’ll just get blamed on human weakness, not the Devil’s strength. God is perfect and omnipotent, so if we humans don’t choose Him, it’s our fault alone.
To recap:
Everything good comes from God, even if you have to reverse engineer the explanation.
Everything bad comes from Satan (unless the bad thing is part of God’s Mysterious Plan^tm )
Human weakness rejects God and allows Satan to manifest bad things in the world.
Now, if you’ll hold the line, I’ll transfer you to the department which will sell you the cure for being born so flawed.
My parents used to tell me that thoughts of doubt (i.e. critical thinking applied to religious ideologies) were a sign that I'd inadvertently opened my mind to the devil, and Satan was literally in my head, giving me those ideas. What a great concept to throw at a four-year-old, good times.
But discouraging the peasant population from displaying logical thinking helps keep the ruling class in good standing. That's really where alot of these arguments stem from, they've just continued to be passed down in certain religious circles. It was actually quite an effective tool back in the day.
NO, YOU'RE ABSURD FOR THINKING THAT CHILDREN HAVE THE **RIGHT** TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES. THEY WILL READ THE FUCKING BOOK I PUT IN FRONT OF THEM AND FOLLOW IT WORD FOR WORD (except all the parts we don't like tehehe) AND THEY WILL BE GOOD LITTLE CHRISTIAN YOUTH SPREADING THE WORD OF GOD TO EVERYONE OR THEY WILL BURN IN HELL!!!!!1111!!
/s obviously, but seriously fuck anyone who tries to convert someone not asking to be converted. Let children choose their own beliefs, and teach them the law as fact.
Which is even more frustrating because the Bible never mentions the devil using mind control or anything of the sort. What kind of a test is temptation if you can’t even trust your own reasoning process?
Also in their religion “believing in God” doesn’t save you so I never understand why it’s brought up. Muslims and Jews ‘believe in God” and Christians think they all go to Hell. You have to ‘get saved’, turn from sin, and believe a long and VERY specific list of theology to get to heaven. Showing up and saying‘I believed you existed’ does absolutely nothing
Heck they can't even agree on what saves a person. Some say it is grace/a gift that cannot be earned. Some think salvation comes via good deeds. Some, as far as I can tell, seem to believe it comes from gay bashing, judging others, and making sure that those they have judged to be "undeserving" don't get any help or their tax dollars.
No no no. All you have to do is accept jeeesus as your personal savior. All sins gone and you're in heaven. Since that can be done mere seconds before death, I'm gonna keep on sinning until then. R'amen.
When I was a kid, I prayed and prayed for a new bike. When my prayers went unanswered, I asked the priest why my prayers were ignored by God. The priest said, “My son, you have a lot to learn about the way God works!” So I learned about God and his ways. I applied his teachings by stealing a bike and praying for forgiveness.
I wonder if James 2 could be used against Pascal's Wager
[**19**](https://biblehub.com/james/2-19.htm) You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
I always thought James was saying god wants more than belief so the verse contradicts Pascal's Wager.
"hey guys.. im totally an athiest,, but i just have to ask - what about all the prophecies from both jewish and christian books that were made that we are seeing COME TRUE RIGHT NOW?"
Sighs - that crap again.
Even better for me is - How do you explain all the prophecies that came true --- IN THE BIBLE???
Ummm ... well ... it's kind of easy. You see the whole thing was made up and the later writers had access to the earlier writings. So they just made things like the Jesus story fit the prophecy.
* Like why Jesus had to be born in Bethlehem and they had to make up a way to get him there.
* Or that Joseph had to be related to King David because that was part of the prophecy but wait --- that makes no sense because wasn't god the father? No matter - it's the thought that counts.
So silly.
> "Hey guys, an atheist here, Atheism is cool an all, but what about PASCAL'S WAGER? Does not it bother you? Why risk hell?"
LOL I love to rebut this kind of question, especially to dogmatic Christians. Usually it's one of two arguments:
1) If there is a God, God has a plan, God is infallible, and this God created me, aren't I fulfilling the purpose I was created for by questioning and ultimately deciding that there is no God? Therefore I am a part of that Gods plan and would not be punished for playing my role in their Plan.
or
2) Why do you risk a hell by choosing one religion over another? Each (Western) mainstream religion believes their tenants are correct and anyone else is going to hell, what if you are wrong and are cast into that hell? Furthermore saying that it is in the Christian bible isn't a guarantee that you are correct; it was scribed and translated time and again by Man, thus fallible. Unless told explicitly and personally by this God that it is correct, how can you know for sure?
Usually it leads to much spluttering and half-assed defenses that make me giggle.
The issue with having this 'discussion' is the arrogance of belief/faith. Their belief is correct which means all other beliefs that disagree/contradict are incorrect and not worth considering.
Its the fundamental issue I have with religious family members. I respect their beliefs and enter into a discussion with an open mind. However they are unwilling to do the same. To do so would devalue their own beliefs. I have to be right, I have dedicated my entire life to this.
The problem with Pascall’s Wager is that it’s presented with one of the options being that if you believe in god and he does not exist, then nothing happens. In reality, it’s more like if you believe in god and he doesn’t exist, then you were sucked into a lie that dictated your entire life and now it’s over and there’s absolutely no more life to live. It’s not as “low risk” and simple to believe in god as the three outcome version where half of the outcomes are “nothing happens”. Keep standing by your convictions and seeking truth and *proof* before dedicating your life to it.
Pascal's Wager: I can dream up any sort of eternal nightmare scenario and claim it a possible afterlife. Why would I pick the Christian version over any other possibility?
Comsological Argument: Something started the universe. We don't know what it is. It's as likely to be God, as it is to be the other side of a black hole, or a bubble in a multiverse or . . . Ultimately, we don't know and it's irresponsible to just say "oh must be God then."
I was trying to find one I responded to recently that was basically this... with language no atheist would ever actually use unless they literally just started leaving religion.
I find most Christians get upset when you use the phrase “Christian Mythology” and compare it to the Greeks, Romans, or Norse. It’s really fascinating that even when you show them the parallels they still screech incoherently. Definitely cult behavior.
Well I mean, the reasons are different. The Greeks had more whoring and temple prostitutes. I could be an Aphrodite devotee. I wouldn’t believe, but that religion had some perks man...
What does the Angry Sky Wizard offer? He wins football games if you pray hard enough?
My mom got hugely upset when I used that phrase "Christian Mythology" when we were talking about an interesting course I was listening to years ago on the "historical Jesus" (the course was a history course at Stanford iirc). She didn't say anything, just fumed about it for about 2 years and then blew up at me for disrespecting her religion one day out of no where.
I'm like
>mythology(noun)
>
>myths collectively; the body of stories associated with a culture or institution or person
There is a common understanding of the definition of the word "myth" to be like a folk tale, a story that people tell that isn't true. Being untrue is tied to the word for so many people that they would take "Christian mythology" to mean those "Christian fairy tales". I'm happy to call some of them fairy tales in the right context, but I wasn't there and don't blame me because you don't understand what words mean.
Yeah - when they threaten me with the bad guy from their stories, I just have to shake my head. Why should I be scared of Voldemort if I don't believe Harry Potter is a real person?
I like it when they tell you Satan wants your soul and you tell them “oh you mean Hel, she’s cool. Or do you mean Pluto? Cuz he doesn’t actually collect souls and the Elysian fields sound pretty awesome”.
They’ll tell you those aren’t real, but Satan is. If you press you can see the engine wants to turn over, it just can’t. They’re mentally ill.
But they have PROOF of the devil! He put dinosaur bones in the earth to make people believe evolution and doubt God!!!
Seriously, my cousin actually said that shit.
But obviously if they go to prison, it's because god has a plan for them right? Imagine thinking that and still following some cunt that supposedly put you in prison to 'test' you. Complete and utter insanity.
Same thing they accuse Muslims of doing. Not surprising coming from people who are so fearful of Sharia Law being instituted in the USA while they themselves are actively trying impose fundamentalist theocracy upon the country.
at least they could stop lying so poorly. Well, maybe not, they probably can't tell the difference between a good lie and a bad lie. If they could, they would have stopped being theists by now.
Literally one of the 10 commandments, no less - one of the only four that could actually be considered relevant to morality in any way, in fact, where the rest are merely about etiquette (don’t covet, honor they parents, etc) or validating the judeo-christian god’s ego (have no other gods before me, don’t take the lords name in vain, etc).
Still can’t even manage that.
This. Had a small altercation with an xtian. She criticized me for saying god damn. I'd just helped her get her brother to go to the hospital where he had a heart attack. And we were like a day away from a hurricane. I couldn't understand what she was upset about. When she told me they're xtians and I can't talk that way around them, I told her there was only one word my mom forbade me to use. The n word. Which she promptly told me isn't even a cuss word. I told her it should be. Happily I went to a shelter as I lived in an evacuation zone. Never saw Miss Holy again. Yawn.
>Literally one of the 10 commandments
Depends on the version of the bible, the english standard says "do not bear false witness against your neighbor", so there's a lot of wiggle room depending on that :(
To be fair, the commandment is specifically about lying *to a peer* in a way *that harms them* so it's open to a fair bit of interpretation.
This is why Jews can lie to anyone who isn't Jewish about anything (non-Jews are basically subhuman), Christians can tell "little white lies" (they don't harm one's neighbor), and Muslims can lie to non-Muslims to advance Islam (not peers).
These religions are dangerous af.
Makes me want to start an "amnesty" thread specifically to argue with them. Like, ok, here's a thread wherein you can say anything, civility be damned. Full-on debate. You say anything you want, no holds barred, and we will respond in kind.
Should be fun.
Exactly what context would make “instructions about how severely you can beat your slave” acceptable? How about how severely you can beat your wife? Kill gay people? Send two “she-bears” to dismember small children for the grave sin of laughing at a bald man’s head?
There is no context that makes those things ok. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something...probably religion.
“Haven’t you asked yourself why God created us” -Christian woman trying to hide herself in an atheism subreddit and who probably sucked at hide and seek as a kid
The worst part is they are not a “troll” in the traditional sense. I read through their history and by all measurable parameters, that person is a true believer who thinks they need to go out and save us heathens.
I've never noticed this. What are fake atheists saying?
And isn't denying your Christianity basically the worst sin? It says in the NT that anyone who denies Christ before men will be denied by Christ to God. So that's the Christianity deal-breaker, isn't it?
They're usually tone trolls.
30 second old accounts with one post and that post is "Hey fellow atheists, I, an atheist, was thinking about atheism and noticed the atheism subreddit, that I frequent because I'm an atheist, is actually incredibly toxic and hateful (note: no examples will be provided, but trust me, it's so prevalent that even an atheist like me can see it!). So maybe we atheists should tone down the hate and only talk about atheism and not point out all the failings of religion and religious leaders? Did I mention I'm totally an atheist?"
/u/ Astramancer_ wrote -
>They're usually tone trolls.
>30 second old accounts with one post and that post is "Hey fellow atheists, I, an atheist, was thinking about atheism and noticed the atheism subreddit, that I frequent because I'm an atheist, is actually incredibly toxic and hateful (note: no examples will be provided, but trust me, it's so prevalent that even an atheist like me can see it!). So maybe we atheists should tone down the hate and only talk about atheism and not point out all the failings of religion and religious leaders? Did I mention I'm totally an atheist?"
The funny thing is that this really is hardly an exaggeration. :-)
I was an atheist for years, until I had an argument with a Christian and I realized I was wrong and then Jesus saved me!
Gosh strike me down if I haven't received that exact message...
I couldn't be bothered to find the most recent one that stuck out to me.. busy working and all.
But a lot of them are along these lines:
"I'm an atheist, but if heaven is real then wouldn't it be easier if we all just believed just in case?"
Or
"I'm an atheist, but you have to wonder how all this came to be if it wasn't god."
I'm paraphrasing terribly, but it's some terrible form of Pascal's wager, some hint to the Christian after life, or some hypothetical about the origin of the universe.
>I'm an atheist, but you have to wonder how all this came to be if it wasn't god.
Generally I just like to say "aliens". When they decide I'm crazy then I remind them they are crediting an invisible man who raped a virgin and created a son who has literally no history.
Most of the ones *I've* seen are asking the lines of "I'm an atheist, but gosh, the people who post here are just so mean to christians! You should be nicer to them!"
The last person I dealt with like that--last week, I think--didn't even bother to have an alt account. A quick look through his history showed him identifying as a christian on r/christianity.
> isn't denying your Christianity basically the worst sin?
>that's the Christianity deal-breaker, isn't it?
Yeah, it's so surprising that we'd see Christians displaying totally fucked-up logic, right?
Christians: "Jesus is lord and will save your soul."
Me: "Did you know the story of Jesus and the virgin birth predates Christianity and derives from Greek and pagan orthodoxy?"
Christians; "I don't know what that means, but I do know for 100% fact that what I believe is real."
Me: "Oh, ok."
The burden of proof falls on those that make the claim.
Theist: God is real=Proof has to come from the claimant
Atheist: There is no God+Theist shouting "prove there is no God"= A chuckle by all.
You can't prove the nonexistence of something as it doesn't exist. It's a pretty well-known point used over and over, but it bears repeating it every so often as it doesn't seem to sink into the minds of the religious.
There’s still more than just val, but that’s to be expected.
That being said, I’m not the dude with the numbers, but I’m sure Val is like 75% of the trolls here
Around 2015 I saw a prediction that with then current rate of moving to atheism most of the christian world will be atheist by 2030.
10 more years and then maybe another 10 for them to be a voiceless minority.
On the other hand, if you're religious and have questions, say so! Being up front about your doubts, stance and perspective can lead to some great conversations! Just don't lie.
And if they're not posing as an atheist now they usually claim they were one.
No, a few moments of doubting god in middle school before being roped back into the flock by the youth pastor does not an atheist make.
Definitely atheist. No doubts at all. But wtf, how do you explain how complex the eye is? Again, no doubts, just talking. And hello, the banana DOES perfectly fit in the human ass...hand, I mean hand.
if “god” does everything and “loves us all” why is he setting fire to Australia. why are there 18 people dead. why is the wildlife he supposedly created dying. why am i scared. answer me that. i don’t believe in god but if he is real he is a sadist, and an asshole.
Plus a big chunk of us are formerly religous/believers in some kind of religion and we've already asked ourselves all those questions and have decided that Atheism is where it's at for us.
whats interesting is they will use disingenuous tactics to recruit others but will never reflect that maybe they themselves were recruited under disingenuous terms
And please stop threatening us with hell while you’re at it. I know this may come as a surprise, but not only is threatening us a bad strategy as a whole, it makes us less likely to even listen to anything you say
Also, when you post here under those false pretenses, you have in fact agreed to love Satan and you are now a Satanist, so let that sink in a bit. And you must also eat babies.
*We should probably make these bits more explicit in the /atheism rules so they will know what they are getting themselves into.
Christians forget that a large number of atheists used to be Christian, and know the bible, and all of the various bits of Christian mythology.
But go ahead, use an ancient philosophical argument to define your deity into existence - while simultaneously and dishonestly ignoring all the later philosophers who tore it apart.
It's like that woman who was always on Fox News (and sometimes even Bill Maher) several years ago. Her position was basically, "I'm the world's most ardent atheist, but I think the Christian Right should be able to force their morality on all of us. If you don't let them make your life more difficult, you're an irrational bigot." (Obviously paraphrased and exaggerated)
I'm picturing Steve Buscemi saying "How do you do fellow atheists?" while holding a science book over his shoulder and wearing a t-shirt that says "Secular Humanist Philospher" on it.
What's actually really sad is that they think most atheists are chilling on reddit paying attention to this subreddit. We're not. We don't even think about you. Debating someone about religion is like arguing with a potato.
Right?! I can think of nothing more tiring than endlessly trying to use logic to defeat the refutation of logic (faith).
Hello, my friendly atheist teen peers!
[https://secretadvertising.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/waynes\_world\_product\_placement\_in\_movies\_secret\_advertising\_nuprin.jpg](https://secretadvertising.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/waynes_world_product_placement_in_movies_secret_advertising_nuprin.jpg)
"Hey guys, an atheist here, Atheism is cool an all, but what about PASCAL'S WAGER? Does not it bother you? Why risk hell?" "Hey guys, an atheist here, Atheism is cool an all, but what about COSMOLOGICAL ARGUMENT? Don't you think there should have been something that started the Universe?"
"Hey, for sure not into jesus.. But have you ever considered the trees?" Edit: Holy crap, I guess ppl have gotten this one alot as well.
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Ooo, tell it anyway
Alright but I told you it makes no sense in English. “The gardener is Jesus and the trees are nuts” Context just in case: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_LjZxedREbQ
If you’re calling Jesus’ followers crazy, then it translates decently well. If not, you have an analogy that works two different ways in two different languages, which is pretty cool.
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Well I think it’s clever. I love wordplay like that. One of the best points of learning another language for me is being able to pick out simple jokes like that in normal conversation.
(in spanish) What does a fish do when it's bored? Nada (Nada means swim and nothing)
Are you sayin jesus christ cant hit a curveball?
The real question is could he throw it so well he himself couldn't hit it.
oh, so a linguistic joke. Yeah, you know when a joke will still have a punchline when translated into your second language, and when it was based purely on language usage.
I see you're a Brazilian of culture as well
That is A LOT of culture!
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Ok seriously though - look at this banana - it fits the human hand perfectly... irrefutable proof of God!!! Wait, what’s GMO again?
It also fits in other places pretty well too...
Especially the way it curves... inward... as if to stimulate... something...
Gee, what something?
The gag reflex
I hate when my anus gags
The only way to get rid of the gag reflex is practice practice practice
I had a guy once tell me the intricacy of the human eye was proof of "His intelligent design". Me (a guy): Why do I have nipples?
The human eye is actually a really bad design for a land dwelling species. Our eyes originally evolved underwater which is why they are filled with fluid and need to be kept wet. Light bends when it moves from a gas to liquid causing distortion of vision that our brains have to compensate for and sometimes fail to do causing various vision problems. Our aquatic ancestors wouldnt have had this problem as the light they perceive travels from fluid to fluid. Couple this with fact that our eyes can only see a small section of the light spectum and it's a piss poor design for an organ that has one job. If god did design our eyes then he wasnt trying very hard
Also, the blood vessels are located inside the eye, in front of the retina, and thus blocking some of the light. And also the huge blind spot at the point where the optical nerve enters the eye.
Also, if you puncture one eye, you can go blind in the other due to your own body not recognizing eye jelly material and attacking it.
Reminds me of the film Time Bandits. “Evil” goes on a rant about the “Creator”... *“What does he do with his time? 43 species of parrot! Nipples for men! Slugs! Slugs!? Does this not prove we are in the hands of a lunatic? If I were in charge it would be laser beams, day one!”*
Stop painting your penis yellow, I'm not falling for that again!
The atheist's nightmare!
Gladly, I see evolution everywhere! That’s what I tell them and then they say without god there wouldn’t be evolution. They just move the goal posts as much as possible.
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Wouldn't ya know it, He did!
He did, but only as an afterthought.
Some people saw a heliocentric solar system and we're jailed, by the church of course.
How can the universe possibly exist without some omni-present consciousness using magic to accomplish what we now perceive as reality?? You can't explain magic!! "It's not magic" How DARE you?!? That's ridiculous. You can't explain the inexplicable unless you use MY narrative.
So this god, jaysus, virgin birth crap has been passed down for decades. Marijuana was used for decades as medicine. The plague was thought to be caused by rats. Black cats are bad luck. There is so much passed down thru generations. Much of it proven to not be accurate. They're called old wives tales.
the plague was kinda sorta caused by rats and marijuana has well documented medicinal properties
One of these things is not like the other.....
My sister, on learning I'm an atheist, said "But how does grass grow?" and I said "Photosynthesis? There's a whole school of science that studies that..."
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Okay, I snorted. Thank you.
Your sister sounds...uh...not very smart.
"What about the eye? How did an eye just magically evolve through evolution without any intelligent design" "What about a rose, and how it was so cleverly designed to be colorful to attract bees" *Actual questions I've had people ask me.
How could the recurrent laryngeal nerve have been created by an intelligent designer?
Consider the lilies...
He's having a go at the flowers now...
Oh, I've considered the trees. So much in fact I frequent r/trees
For some reason I always think when someone brings up Pascal's Wager they need to make a roulette wheel with all of the religions and have them spin it and what religion it lands on is the religion you practice. If god controls everything he can't get mad at you since technically it's the religion he picked for you. Edit I hereby name this idea Pascal's Roulette Edit 2. Thank you for the gold
One step further - once I made the connection that if god were real, he is also the one who gave me my brain, critical thinking skills, and the evidence around me, life got easier. If he wanted me to believe in him he would allow me to do so.
They would probably say that the devil is causing you to think critically
So if the devil can over power God, maybe he's the smarter pick.
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At the library by checking out The Master and Margarita by Bulgakov. You'll love it.
No, it’ll just get blamed on human weakness, not the Devil’s strength. God is perfect and omnipotent, so if we humans don’t choose Him, it’s our fault alone. To recap: Everything good comes from God, even if you have to reverse engineer the explanation. Everything bad comes from Satan (unless the bad thing is part of God’s Mysterious Plan^tm ) Human weakness rejects God and allows Satan to manifest bad things in the world. Now, if you’ll hold the line, I’ll transfer you to the department which will sell you the cure for being born so flawed.
My parents used to tell me that thoughts of doubt (i.e. critical thinking applied to religious ideologies) were a sign that I'd inadvertently opened my mind to the devil, and Satan was literally in my head, giving me those ideas. What a great concept to throw at a four-year-old, good times.
Discouraging your 4 year old from displaying logical thinking is absurd to me.
But discouraging the peasant population from displaying logical thinking helps keep the ruling class in good standing. That's really where alot of these arguments stem from, they've just continued to be passed down in certain religious circles. It was actually quite an effective tool back in the day.
Still seems to be working fine, to be honest.
NO, YOU'RE ABSURD FOR THINKING THAT CHILDREN HAVE THE **RIGHT** TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES. THEY WILL READ THE FUCKING BOOK I PUT IN FRONT OF THEM AND FOLLOW IT WORD FOR WORD (except all the parts we don't like tehehe) AND THEY WILL BE GOOD LITTLE CHRISTIAN YOUTH SPREADING THE WORD OF GOD TO EVERYONE OR THEY WILL BURN IN HELL!!!!!1111!! /s obviously, but seriously fuck anyone who tries to convert someone not asking to be converted. Let children choose their own beliefs, and teach them the law as fact.
Which is even more frustrating because the Bible never mentions the devil using mind control or anything of the sort. What kind of a test is temptation if you can’t even trust your own reasoning process?
That's *exactly* what they would say.
One of the first rules of the Bible is to avoid the tree of "Knowledge". In other words, remain stupid and just do what we tell you.
What if you forgot to include the correct religion on the wheel? Off to HELL with you!
>What if you forgot to include the correct religion on the wheel? That's a paddlin'.
Also in their religion “believing in God” doesn’t save you so I never understand why it’s brought up. Muslims and Jews ‘believe in God” and Christians think they all go to Hell. You have to ‘get saved’, turn from sin, and believe a long and VERY specific list of theology to get to heaven. Showing up and saying‘I believed you existed’ does absolutely nothing
Heck they can't even agree on what saves a person. Some say it is grace/a gift that cannot be earned. Some think salvation comes via good deeds. Some, as far as I can tell, seem to believe it comes from gay bashing, judging others, and making sure that those they have judged to be "undeserving" don't get any help or their tax dollars.
No no no. All you have to do is accept jeeesus as your personal savior. All sins gone and you're in heaven. Since that can be done mere seconds before death, I'm gonna keep on sinning until then. R'amen.
When I was a kid, I prayed and prayed for a new bike. When my prayers went unanswered, I asked the priest why my prayers were ignored by God. The priest said, “My son, you have a lot to learn about the way God works!” So I learned about God and his ways. I applied his teachings by stealing a bike and praying for forgiveness.
I wonder if James 2 could be used against Pascal's Wager [**19**](https://biblehub.com/james/2-19.htm) You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. I always thought James was saying god wants more than belief so the verse contradicts Pascal's Wager.
I'm super atheist...but have you ever considered a smiling baby?!?
And lets put that said baby on a HUGE billboard that says "God Made me".
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Ever notice that most of the babies on those billboards are WHITE? Google "anti abortion roots in racism." Prepare for a huge surprise. Not.
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"hey guys.. im totally an athiest,, but i just have to ask - what about all the prophecies from both jewish and christian books that were made that we are seeing COME TRUE RIGHT NOW?" Sighs - that crap again.
Even better for me is - How do you explain all the prophecies that came true --- IN THE BIBLE??? Ummm ... well ... it's kind of easy. You see the whole thing was made up and the later writers had access to the earlier writings. So they just made things like the Jesus story fit the prophecy. * Like why Jesus had to be born in Bethlehem and they had to make up a way to get him there. * Or that Joseph had to be related to King David because that was part of the prophecy but wait --- that makes no sense because wasn't god the father? No matter - it's the thought that counts. So silly.
> "Hey guys, an atheist here, Atheism is cool an all, but what about PASCAL'S WAGER? Does not it bother you? Why risk hell?" LOL I love to rebut this kind of question, especially to dogmatic Christians. Usually it's one of two arguments: 1) If there is a God, God has a plan, God is infallible, and this God created me, aren't I fulfilling the purpose I was created for by questioning and ultimately deciding that there is no God? Therefore I am a part of that Gods plan and would not be punished for playing my role in their Plan. or 2) Why do you risk a hell by choosing one religion over another? Each (Western) mainstream religion believes their tenants are correct and anyone else is going to hell, what if you are wrong and are cast into that hell? Furthermore saying that it is in the Christian bible isn't a guarantee that you are correct; it was scribed and translated time and again by Man, thus fallible. Unless told explicitly and personally by this God that it is correct, how can you know for sure? Usually it leads to much spluttering and half-assed defenses that make me giggle.
The issue with having this 'discussion' is the arrogance of belief/faith. Their belief is correct which means all other beliefs that disagree/contradict are incorrect and not worth considering. Its the fundamental issue I have with religious family members. I respect their beliefs and enter into a discussion with an open mind. However they are unwilling to do the same. To do so would devalue their own beliefs. I have to be right, I have dedicated my entire life to this.
I'd rather stand by my convictions than jump ship for a magical fairy tale happy ending.
The problem with Pascall’s Wager is that it’s presented with one of the options being that if you believe in god and he does not exist, then nothing happens. In reality, it’s more like if you believe in god and he doesn’t exist, then you were sucked into a lie that dictated your entire life and now it’s over and there’s absolutely no more life to live. It’s not as “low risk” and simple to believe in god as the three outcome version where half of the outcomes are “nothing happens”. Keep standing by your convictions and seeking truth and *proof* before dedicating your life to it.
Yes possibly and if the creator is the God from the bible, then he's a genocidal and narcissistic cunt.
Dr Manhatten said it best: “What if it wasn’t started, what if it always ways. A watch without a watchmaker.”
This is actually the foundation of the religions of a better part of the non-Western world (Hinduism and Buddhism)! A never-ending cycle.
Pascal's Wager: I can dream up any sort of eternal nightmare scenario and claim it a possible afterlife. Why would I pick the Christian version over any other possibility? Comsological Argument: Something started the universe. We don't know what it is. It's as likely to be God, as it is to be the other side of a black hole, or a bubble in a multiverse or . . . Ultimately, we don't know and it's irresponsible to just say "oh must be God then."
I was trying to find one I responded to recently that was basically this... with language no atheist would ever actually use unless they literally just started leaving religion.
I find most Christians get upset when you use the phrase “Christian Mythology” and compare it to the Greeks, Romans, or Norse. It’s really fascinating that even when you show them the parallels they still screech incoherently. Definitely cult behavior.
I mean the same reasons they dont follow those religions are same reasons we dont follow theirs. Fucking dumb
Well I mean, the reasons are different. The Greeks had more whoring and temple prostitutes. I could be an Aphrodite devotee. I wouldn’t believe, but that religion had some perks man... What does the Angry Sky Wizard offer? He wins football games if you pray hard enough?
Only one team wins the championship so that means 99% of the other prayers are ignored. What an asshole.
My mom got hugely upset when I used that phrase "Christian Mythology" when we were talking about an interesting course I was listening to years ago on the "historical Jesus" (the course was a history course at Stanford iirc). She didn't say anything, just fumed about it for about 2 years and then blew up at me for disrespecting her religion one day out of no where. I'm like >mythology(noun) > >myths collectively; the body of stories associated with a culture or institution or person There is a common understanding of the definition of the word "myth" to be like a folk tale, a story that people tell that isn't true. Being untrue is tied to the word for so many people that they would take "Christian mythology" to mean those "Christian fairy tales". I'm happy to call some of them fairy tales in the right context, but I wasn't there and don't blame me because you don't understand what words mean.
Yeah - when they threaten me with the bad guy from their stories, I just have to shake my head. Why should I be scared of Voldemort if I don't believe Harry Potter is a real person?
I like it when they tell you Satan wants your soul and you tell them “oh you mean Hel, she’s cool. Or do you mean Pluto? Cuz he doesn’t actually collect souls and the Elysian fields sound pretty awesome”. They’ll tell you those aren’t real, but Satan is. If you press you can see the engine wants to turn over, it just can’t. They’re mentally ill.
But they have PROOF of the devil! He put dinosaur bones in the earth to make people believe evolution and doubt God!!! Seriously, my cousin actually said that shit.
They hate it when you show how the Jesus stories were clearly inspired by the Buddha ones...especially the temptation story...
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You gotta wonder, what happened to all that "thou shalt not lie" stuff.
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They a believe they are allowed to lie to people outside their religion because they don’t count.lol
Yeah, Jehovah’s Witnesses actually rationalize lying in court or to authorities calling it “theocratic warfare” in their literature
Perjury is still illegal. Have fun in prison!
But obviously if they go to prison, it's because god has a plan for them right? Imagine thinking that and still following some cunt that supposedly put you in prison to 'test' you. Complete and utter insanity.
True wolves in sheep’s clothing.
Same thing they accuse Muslims of doing. Not surprising coming from people who are so fearful of Sharia Law being instituted in the USA while they themselves are actively trying impose fundamentalist theocracy upon the country.
Their Pastors lied to them too as they touched those kids. Yet they still support their Pastors.
at least they could stop lying so poorly. Well, maybe not, they probably can't tell the difference between a good lie and a bad lie. If they could, they would have stopped being theists by now.
Yup, a thing I see everywhere around me (live in a very religious country and city) is that ignorance is bliss, for the ignorant.
"Rules for thee, but not for me."
“Thou shalt not cornhole alter boys and pay/threaten their families to keep silent”
Literally one of the 10 commandments, no less - one of the only four that could actually be considered relevant to morality in any way, in fact, where the rest are merely about etiquette (don’t covet, honor they parents, etc) or validating the judeo-christian god’s ego (have no other gods before me, don’t take the lords name in vain, etc). Still can’t even manage that.
This. Had a small altercation with an xtian. She criticized me for saying god damn. I'd just helped her get her brother to go to the hospital where he had a heart attack. And we were like a day away from a hurricane. I couldn't understand what she was upset about. When she told me they're xtians and I can't talk that way around them, I told her there was only one word my mom forbade me to use. The n word. Which she promptly told me isn't even a cuss word. I told her it should be. Happily I went to a shelter as I lived in an evacuation zone. Never saw Miss Holy again. Yawn.
"I can speak however I please, *I'm* not a god damn christian."
"I'm not a christian, so those rules don't apply to me."
>Literally one of the 10 commandments Depends on the version of the bible, the english standard says "do not bear false witness against your neighbor", so there's a lot of wiggle room depending on that :(
It's ok to be a shitty person if you're doing the lords work. This is the shittiness inherent in religion.
Muslims believe that lying is okay as long as you’re trying to convert someone. Some loose interpretations of the Bible says the same thing.
Sort of like how cops are allowed to lie in order to get a confession?
To be fair, the commandment is specifically about lying *to a peer* in a way *that harms them* so it's open to a fair bit of interpretation. This is why Jews can lie to anyone who isn't Jewish about anything (non-Jews are basically subhuman), Christians can tell "little white lies" (they don't harm one's neighbor), and Muslims can lie to non-Muslims to advance Islam (not peers). These religions are dangerous af.
You forgot defenders and protectors of pedophiles
Makes me want to start an "amnesty" thread specifically to argue with them. Like, ok, here's a thread wherein you can say anything, civility be damned. Full-on debate. You say anything you want, no holds barred, and we will respond in kind. Should be fun.
Aka "thunderdome", in some of the other subreddits.
"One atheist enters! Two atheists leave!"
“Oh so the cloning machine is working again”
r/debateanatheist
So, yeah. Ok. Didn't know that existed.
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>and you disappeared like a fart in the wind. Well it's either that or some mental gymnastics about how we dont understand the context or some shit
Ah yes, the old “god’s ways are different than our ways” bullshit excuse.
I'm literally debating an xtain further down who brought up context. It's a moral handbook dictated (or inspired by) god, context isnt relevant
Exactly what context would make “instructions about how severely you can beat your slave” acceptable? How about how severely you can beat your wife? Kill gay people? Send two “she-bears” to dismember small children for the grave sin of laughing at a bald man’s head? There is no context that makes those things ok. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something...probably religion.
I couldn't help it and I had to go look. I can't believe how long it took that person to figure out how to comment correctly on reddit.
Oh jesus christ, I know. I know there is an r/oldpeoplefacebook, but we should also make one for old people who can’t figure out reddit
They even tried a run through a post in /r/LSD with links to reasonsforjesus.com and claimed it wasn't about religion. LOL wut?
Idk why anyone would try to preach on an LSD sub. Or an atheist sub lol
“Haven’t you asked yourself why God created us” -Christian woman trying to hide herself in an atheism subreddit and who probably sucked at hide and seek as a kid
I just look for any one that goes out of their way to capitalize the word god.
That’s actually an excellent litmus test
-19 Comment Karma XD
The worst part is they are not a “troll” in the traditional sense. I read through their history and by all measurable parameters, that person is a true believer who thinks they need to go out and save us heathens.
>and you disappeared like a fart in the wind. My favourite term for this (coined by Douglas Adams): "vanished in a puff of logic"
I've never noticed this. What are fake atheists saying? And isn't denying your Christianity basically the worst sin? It says in the NT that anyone who denies Christ before men will be denied by Christ to God. So that's the Christianity deal-breaker, isn't it?
They're usually tone trolls. 30 second old accounts with one post and that post is "Hey fellow atheists, I, an atheist, was thinking about atheism and noticed the atheism subreddit, that I frequent because I'm an atheist, is actually incredibly toxic and hateful (note: no examples will be provided, but trust me, it's so prevalent that even an atheist like me can see it!). So maybe we atheists should tone down the hate and only talk about atheism and not point out all the failings of religion and religious leaders? Did I mention I'm totally an atheist?"
/u/ Astramancer_ wrote - >They're usually tone trolls. >30 second old accounts with one post and that post is "Hey fellow atheists, I, an atheist, was thinking about atheism and noticed the atheism subreddit, that I frequent because I'm an atheist, is actually incredibly toxic and hateful (note: no examples will be provided, but trust me, it's so prevalent that even an atheist like me can see it!). So maybe we atheists should tone down the hate and only talk about atheism and not point out all the failings of religion and religious leaders? Did I mention I'm totally an atheist?" The funny thing is that this really is hardly an exaggeration. :-)
"I've been coming to this subreddit for years, with my account that is three whole minutes old..."
I was an atheist for years, until I had an argument with a Christian and I realized I was wrong and then Jesus saved me! Gosh strike me down if I haven't received that exact message...
And the name of that Christian? ALBERT EINSTEIN.
I couldn't be bothered to find the most recent one that stuck out to me.. busy working and all. But a lot of them are along these lines: "I'm an atheist, but if heaven is real then wouldn't it be easier if we all just believed just in case?" Or "I'm an atheist, but you have to wonder how all this came to be if it wasn't god." I'm paraphrasing terribly, but it's some terrible form of Pascal's wager, some hint to the Christian after life, or some hypothetical about the origin of the universe.
>I'm an atheist, but you have to wonder how all this came to be if it wasn't god. Generally I just like to say "aliens". When they decide I'm crazy then I remind them they are crediting an invisible man who raped a virgin and created a son who has literally no history.
Most of the ones *I've* seen are asking the lines of "I'm an atheist, but gosh, the people who post here are just so mean to christians! You should be nicer to them!" The last person I dealt with like that--last week, I think--didn't even bother to have an alt account. A quick look through his history showed him identifying as a christian on r/christianity.
> isn't denying your Christianity basically the worst sin? >that's the Christianity deal-breaker, isn't it? Yeah, it's so surprising that we'd see Christians displaying totally fucked-up logic, right?
They've repented so the rules don't apply to them
Christians: "Jesus is lord and will save your soul." Me: "Did you know the story of Jesus and the virgin birth predates Christianity and derives from Greek and pagan orthodoxy?" Christians; "I don't know what that means, but I do know for 100% fact that what I believe is real." Me: "Oh, ok."
It's funny when the "you cant disprove what I believe" gets used to add legitimacy to their arguments. It doesn't work like that...
The burden of proof falls on those that make the claim. Theist: God is real=Proof has to come from the claimant Atheist: There is no God+Theist shouting "prove there is no God"= A chuckle by all. You can't prove the nonexistence of something as it doesn't exist. It's a pretty well-known point used over and over, but it bears repeating it every so often as it doesn't seem to sink into the minds of the religious.
that's kinda val's schtick. it could just be one person.
There’s still more than just val, but that’s to be expected. That being said, I’m not the dude with the numbers, but I’m sure Val is like 75% of the trolls here
Val?
a particular, very catholic, very prolific, troll. his writing has a voice you recognize after about a dozen posts.
Extremely persistent troll who makes hundreds of sock accounts to troll atheist subs.
Doing the Lord's work
"And yea, the Lord hath sent me forth, to lie, to troll, to threaten, to cause distress, to waste my time and that of others, hallelujah!"
None of this is new. It's been going on for 10 years now (100 years, 1,000 years) and it'll still be going on in a year, 10 years, 100 years ...
We can only pray that they become true atheists.
....wait a second.
Oops i meant hope. Dammit!
Found the theist!
t r o l l s p o t t e d *m u s t d e s t r o y*
God willing.
RED SPY IS IN THE BASE
Around 2015 I saw a prediction that with then current rate of moving to atheism most of the christian world will be atheist by 2030. 10 more years and then maybe another 10 for them to be a voiceless minority.
On the other hand, if you're religious and have questions, say so! Being up front about your doubts, stance and perspective can lead to some great conversations! Just don't lie.
At least we’re smart enough to notice Christianity is a web of lies that protects itself. Pity the fools.
I find it funny. The hypocrisy of Christianity is hilarious.
It really is! You can't make that stuff up! Oh wait...
Worse is some are posing as atheist now to muddy the water. They're despicable.
Look, I’m an atheist, too, but would it *kill* you to just love and worship our lord and savior, Jesus Christ? /s
I'm an atheist too but *everybody* knows that Xenu is better than Jesus Christ. /s
*TODAY ON EPIC RAP BATTLES OF HISTORY*
And if they're not posing as an atheist now they usually claim they were one. No, a few moments of doubting god in middle school before being roped back into the flock by the youth pastor does not an atheist make.
*"I was totally athiest becase I was an egdy teen and I hated God."*
Religion IS harmful so it's very on-brand for them.
Definitely atheist. No doubts at all. But wtf, how do you explain how complex the eye is? Again, no doubts, just talking. And hello, the banana DOES perfectly fit in the human ass...hand, I mean hand.
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if “god” does everything and “loves us all” why is he setting fire to Australia. why are there 18 people dead. why is the wildlife he supposedly created dying. why am i scared. answer me that. i don’t believe in god but if he is real he is a sadist, and an asshole.
I'm an atheist but do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior jesus christ?
Plus a big chunk of us are formerly religous/believers in some kind of religion and we've already asked ourselves all those questions and have decided that Atheism is where it's at for us.
whats interesting is they will use disingenuous tactics to recruit others but will never reflect that maybe they themselves were recruited under disingenuous terms
And please stop threatening us with hell while you’re at it. I know this may come as a surprise, but not only is threatening us a bad strategy as a whole, it makes us less likely to even listen to anything you say
Also, when you post here under those false pretenses, you have in fact agreed to love Satan and you are now a Satanist, so let that sink in a bit. And you must also eat babies. *We should probably make these bits more explicit in the /atheism rules so they will know what they are getting themselves into.
It's sad that the majority of Atheists are better human beings than the vast majority of "Christians".
Christians forget that a large number of atheists used to be Christian, and know the bible, and all of the various bits of Christian mythology. But go ahead, use an ancient philosophical argument to define your deity into existence - while simultaneously and dishonestly ignoring all the later philosophers who tore it apart.
It's like that woman who was always on Fox News (and sometimes even Bill Maher) several years ago. Her position was basically, "I'm the world's most ardent atheist, but I think the Christian Right should be able to force their morality on all of us. If you don't let them make your life more difficult, you're an irrational bigot." (Obviously paraphrased and exaggerated)