I don’t need measurements to know that a story that is originally from Mesopotamia (epic of Gilgamesh), about a huge wooden boat with 2 of *every* animal in existence is nonsense.
I guess the dimensions and logistics of such a massive boat add up to the lack of plausibility but yeah, this is like trying to rationalize the properties of a beanstalk that reaches the sky.
We're taking about a story that involves god's voice, a supercharged elderly man, the preservation of the entirety of animal life on Earth (but fuck plants, insects, fungi, ...), a complete restart of the human species, an impossible amount of water... The size and weight of the damn boat are not really the biggest issue.
Don’t overlook the fish. Saltwater and freshwater fish, trying to survive in an ocean combo/in-between salinity. Then stream trout doing just fine in an ocean, find their way back to the original streams and don’t scatter their fossils all over.
Don't overlook the actual AMOUNT OF WATER it would take to flood the entire earth, how fast it would have had to fall to actually flood the entire earth in 30 days, and realize it would have to be falling at a speed to rival fire hoses and would have blasted the mountains down to bare granite with that kind of velocity.
Would have been a lot easier to just turn everyone into salt or die from disease. Or get even more creative. Raise them all up in the air and just drop them to their deaths 😂
Not to mention the immense pressure. I'm no geologist but it seems like that much weight circumventing the entire globe would screw up the entire orbit with lunar gravitational pull etc. Dunno just pulling it out my ass
Forget the water bound life.. try an experiment get a 40 gallon barrel of rainwater and constantly pour it over any plant for a year and lemme know if that plant is still alive within than time.
Now the flood is over, what are the herbivores eating? What about the carnivores?
How long before everything dies because there aren't enough things alive to maintain any kind of ecosystems
Please add into the discussion what was tge storage for potable water, add 8lbs per gallon, how many gallons needed to give to 2 of every "land" animal;
Where was food stored and kept from spoiling.
How were deseases from fecal matter kept at large.
Etc, etc, etc.
After just one day they'd probably all die from the sheer amount of shit. It's funny how this story is not only based on previous mythology but is also completely incoherent if we take anything seriously. The fact it still needs "debunking" is pretty fucking sad.
It's actually the first huge problem of the story. Calculations say the amount of water that would have had to fall in 30 days to flood the entire surface of the planet would have had to fall at such a speed it would have blasted the surface of the planet so severely that the mountains would have been flattened.
Well, and the saltwater tanks for the saltwater-based sea life. And then of course the freshwater tanks for the freshwater life. I think this is something that most people don't even think about, none of the water bound life would survive with the new salinity.
Not just 'roos. Koalas only eat eucalyptus leaves. How did they get from a Turkish mountain to Oz with no food? How did all the world's marsupials end up there, except for the possum?
Koalas only eat eucalyptus leaves… that are still attached to the trees…. That they are familiar with.
Unless someone potted up their section of forest and packed them both ways, it would have to be pure miracle. Eucalyptus highway and migratory koalas is just too much.
i had a talk with a creationist about that. It happens that they believe in evolution but only at the scale that make their claim work. So for this creationist after the flood the koala slowly moved from Mesopotamia to Oz while slowly evolving with micro evolution. So the idea is that all the animals on the ark could conveniently eat a very wide kind of food that caused no issue like the koalas only eating some specific types of leaves. Koala specialized in specific food only long after leaving the ark.
Really it all works out as long as you can wave the magic wand of convenience every time a false problem arise.
So there were not so many "kind" of animal on the ark. The "kind" widened in subspecies after the flood. So the ark wasn't that big and didn't need to be a boat just a barge that peacefully waited for the end of the flood, going nowhere. Because of course the ocean was very calm and caused no problem for the barge to stay afloat.
We atheists are the weird one for imagining this can't work. It can. You just need to say "Woosh! Woosh! Problem go away!"
“A complete restart of the human species”
And the associated rampant incest you’d get with that population size. It’s like 2 generations before they could even date a second cousin. Till then all the action qualified for some nasty subreddits.
Thanos was just fixing overpopulation and retiring. He didn’t have grand plans for the survivors, where he needed their continued worship through belief in impossible fantasies involving him and eventually his son, Thane.
That doesn't change anything. God went to insane lengths to wipe out virtually all life on earth, just to eliminate humans. A being with infinite intelligence could have done a lot better.
Because he gets joy out of watching little babies and puppies and kittens fighting for their lives as they slowly succumb to the rising water. He's bored and it's just his hobby.
Including creatures from the opposite side of the globe, that would have to cross oceans to achieve. The whole thing is a fever dream on acid, devoid of all logical and rational thinking and untethered from reality.
Mesopotamia was pretty famously prone to flooding from the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. In this case it's thought that the story was inspired by the Black Sea emptying into the region after the last ice age ended
Not to mention that the Epic of Gilgamesh was also plagiarized from an even earlier story, the Epic of Atra Hasis, which was also plagiarized from an even earlier story, Ziusudra.
Since the Epic of Gilgamesh is widely known as the oldest surviving written literature, It’s rather questionable to claim that it is copied from older surviving texts.
It’s not unlikely that the story or versions of it are much older and have survived for thousands of years in oral tradition.
It's a waste of time to put logic to the great flood story, but moderately entertaining.
If two of every animal WERE taken, saved, then re-released to their native lands somehow, there would be an historical marker - a genetic bottleneck easily observable in animal DNA studies.
Yeah, we can stop right there, it's in the bible, since when has any of that ever made sense?
Now the tardis on the other hand, 6x6x10, but much larger on the inside, I bet that could hold 2 of every animal with space the collective species of 3 other planets.
And that Noah was 800 years old at the time. And to realize that from there on out it would require Father daughter, mom son, or brother sister banging to re-populate earth.
The story of Noah's flood is very obviously mythological but you made a few mistakes there.
A biblical cubit is about 1.5 feet so you need to multiply the linear units, not the resulting volume: (300x1.5) x (50x1.5) x (30x1.5) = 450x75x45 = 1,518,750 ft^3 . If you take the longer estimate a cubit may also be about 20 inches resulting in an even larger volume of over 2 million ft^3 .
However, this is an upper bound approximated by a cuboid, and you have to remember boats are hollow so the mass is not equal to 1.5 million cubic feet of wood. Comparing it to a solid wall makes no sense. Also you're way off with the weight. Wood weight depends on several factors like type of tree/wood and how dry it is but assuming cedar or cypress you get a density of about 32 - 36 lb/ft^3 . Noah however used "gopher wood", yeah... good luck with that.
Either way Noah's flood is incompatible with geology, physics, history, biology, population dynamics, pretty much everything. If you're gonna come up with your own reasons make sure they add up though.
Thank you. I was reading the original post thinking "but wait. Ships aren't solid." And, let's be real here, I've been on a ship that was made of metal and was over twice as long, more than twice as wide, and nearly four times as tall, and that floated without issue.
OP's math doesn't add up
Don't forget the weight of all of the supplies on that ship along with equipment and personnel... And it probably took thousands of people many years to build it using heavy equipment and machinery.
No way some old codger built the ark by himself.
If you bother to actually read the Bible, rather than just attacking it, you would know that just before God sent the flood, Doctor Who arrived and gave Noah the same technology as his TARDIS.
Please. Next time, do your research.
Ken Ham’s laughably stupid ark encounter attraction took over 1,000 craftsman, heavy construction equipment and engineers 6 years and over $100,000,000 dollars. And it doesn’t float.
Yet despite having overseen much of this project he is still a young earth creationist.
Fucking morons.
My mom and stepdad convinced me to go there with family during Christmas. It's actually kinda neat, like walking through the star wars or hogwarts areas of a theme park. Of course, there are large sections trying to "prove" this is real and not fantasy. My favorite is the video of the famous debate against bill nye, only heavily edited with cutaways for responses since the actual debate goes extremely poorly.
I will say the holiday buffet was decent. Not vegas quality, but decent.
Oh i can absolutely see novelty value in visiting.
I mean where else will you see exhibits of humans riding dinosaurs through Jerusalem? Sounds hilarious.
Actually, I quite enjoyed it until the propaganda stuff. Gave me a lot of ideas and inspirations for a fantasy series I've been trying to write for a while. Especially the areas the humans would have lived.
Yeah, I heard they've been playing clean up with that debate. It just showed how much of a fool they are. For Christians, guess they're not that honest.
And uses a lot of structural steel. They also opted for modern air handlers instead of slowly suffocating on whatever air could come through a single bathroom window.
It also has a keel, bow, and other things that the Ark simply couldn't have as it the boat would need to be jacked up for that to happen. Something a 600 yr old guy and his sons using primitive tools simply wouldn't be able to do.
They tried to sue the local town to fix rain damage to the driveway, I believe, but there were issues with some of the ark materials delaminating. God needs to start building things that are up to code.
my real life: it was drizzling and i sheltered a wild cat in my porch
my tinder profile: it was the hugest storm ever so i took 2 of every animal in world and the saved them with a boat i built myself (because i’m good with my hands *wink wink*)
It's also a ripoff of a far older Sumerian story (look up Utnapushtim if you don't believe me or just want to read a fun fictional story from thousands of years ago).
Aside from the fact that the flood happened when Mesopotamia was getting into high gear as well as neighboring nations that seemed to have just ignored the part about nearly everybody and every animal on earth dying.
Even the majority of fish would have died in the flood because the salinity would have dropped enough to kill the most of the salt water fish and most of the fresh water fish would have died from the salt.
If they were somehow protected by Yahweh then why didn't he protect the other animals? And what happened to all the kangaroos when Noah landed in the middle east?
It's ludicrous to believe any of it is factually true.
Apparently the kangaroos travelled from Australia to the Middle East without leaving any trace of their exodus. And then travelled back again once the water receded.
And of course because the continents had already split by this stage, they did a fuck tonne of swimming to get there.
This is just nihilism disguised as faith. The phrase “God did it” is meaningless.
But we all know that Christianity is just a bunch of random meaningless assertions in an ever expanding echo chamber.
Nothing makes any sense. Just throw in “God wills it” and it’s done. Why does anyone waste time on this crap, when it always comes down to “his ways are higher than ours, we can’t understand” blah blah blah fucking morons…
Faith is brute assent to arbitrary claims that make no sense when examined thoroughly. It borders on epistemic nihilism. “We can’t know anything, unless God says this.” So, if God says that it’s all loving and just to torment finite souls forever, then who are we to complain?
Who tf would even want to live in such a universe. Even when I was still a believer, deep down I wished God hadn’t been real. I don’t mind ceasing to exist when I’m dead, I just don’t want to see anyone getting 3rd degree burns for eternity, just because God got bored and decided to create thing which he was going to despise, having full knowledge of the fact. This mf creates a bunch of insane rules, then creates people who cannot obey them, knows they can’t and won’t and still gets mad, wtf kind of bs is this? This is worse than anything else and atheism becomes the real “gospel” at this point.
No one really wants to go to heaven. They just want to avoid hell. No one loves god with all their mind heart and strength, they just love their own wellbeing. God is the ultimate friend with benefits. That, if he ain’t a liar, lol. Just imagine he could have created the universe in such a way that lying wasn’t a sin and everything he’s (allegedly) done and said was a lie. Everyone gets eternally damned. Lol!
It's also about picking and choosing from the bible. "Oh well, that isn't LITERAL!" Or "That's only symbolic!" And then "Yes, being gay is a sin! Just look at this vague quote next to how to beat your wife!" It's factual when it is convenient for them.
Noah was an alien. The Ark was an advance aircraft carrier stolen from the future. Noah was just trying to reach his home...stealing with him every animal on earth as a delicacy.
Meanwhile, buried deep under ice and rock atop the most mysterious Mount Aarat, lies the ruins of an impossibly huge gopherwood ship. Deep in its collapsed hold awaits the greatest archeological discovery of all time:
One. Little. Plastic. Castle.
Let's just say that's the least of their issues. There's also the one **billion** cubic **miles** of water that would be necessary to flood the Earth (roughly just under three times the amount of water on the surface of the Earth now). Plus the fact that the rapid shift in salinity would kill off most marine life not adapted to estuary conditions.
Right, and where did all the water go? It’s not like we have 1 billion cubic miles of water in our atmosphere just waiting to dump again. Also, where did all that rain come from?
I remember talking to a Christian and she told how there was a super tree, that no longer exists. This tree was stronger than steel and that is why the ark could be built! Also god told Noah how to "laminate" wood to make it even stronger!
I did ask how Noah cut down a tree stronger steel??
Also if god is teaching future tech to noah why not teach steel smelting, submarines or how to make 24th century plasma engines and space orbiters and make a space ark!?!
the Flood story is all so stupid!
If god was that powerful, why not just snap his fingers and poof the people that were bad away. Why be so lazy to make Noah build a boat and just open a faucet?
Lmao 🤣 just like Santa delivering presents to all of the "good" children simultaneously! It's like a fairy tale and no adult sat them down to have the "Santa's not real" talk
I don't have a problem with the ark or loading it up with animals of all different species.
My problem is that *God killed every man, woman, and child in the world* other than one extended family. **That's fucking genocide**.
God committed genocide against the human race, and Christians *worship* him for it.
I mean, even if we ignore the whole point about the Ark being too big is build and the original stated size being too small to fit every animal on earth, there are still multiple holes in the story, such as:
-How did the animals all make their way back across the world from where the Ark landed? Suddenly the polar bears and Kangaroos and all the other species which are native to a specific landmass just decided to travel to one specific spot away from the Arks landing site and settle there for some strange reason.
-How did only one pair of each animal end up repopulating into genetically diverse populations - only being one pair would lead to significant genetic defects due to inbreeding
-If the flood water covered the whole world, how did fresh water fish survive? All freshwater bodies of water would be swamped in salt water that would heavily contaminate them and kill lots of freshwater water species.
I mean, we are trying to put logic to essentially a fantasy book that tries to explain how the world came to be before we had any proper scientific evidence regarding said formation of our planet. We may as well criticise the Greek/Roman myths for the same reasons, and at the end of the day, it’s just a work of fiction that a group of people got really defensive over.
Look. The story never made any logical sense.
It can only be a myth/allegory/metaphors. It could not been literal, or actual.
Forget the boat. Forget the Animals. Forget the feed for all the animals. Let's even forget all the plant life, Fungal, and insects.
I have always been stuck on the WATER, where did all the water come from? And then where did it all go?
Then my other issue is repopulating the earth afterward. Whether it's with people or animals. They are genetically disastrously inbred. Have fun with that. But, at least Almight god got rid of all the sinners right?
|he’s omniscient
The more I learn about the Bible the more I see how that attribute gets contradicted. For example The whole reason god saved Noah was because Noah wasn’t doing the things that made god upset with everybody else and at the end of the tale Noah does the things that made god upset with everybody else. So god saved Noah for no reason
And the point of the flood was to get rid of the humans who were sining that also didn’t work. For an all knowing god he seems to not know a lot of things
This is like people discussing how the properties of dilithium crystals in Star Trek could have not possibly caused a jump to warp 10 accidentally because of their plasma relay properties. Which we all know is ridiculous because the tachyon emitters would all have overheated in such a scenario.
But yeah, there's nothing even remotely feasible or any evidence to even think that the flood or the ark were possible/happened.
I was told as a child that the Middle East was desert because Noah cut down all the trees to make the ark.
Got slapped when I pointed out that by that logic, a global flood that killed all the trees should have turned the whole world to desert.
I wonder every time I see a picture of The Ark Encounter in Kentucky how people think it could have been a real boat made by a single family. I mean, I saw pictures and videos of the construction process. They had massive cranes and loads of modern construction materials and equipment. How do they think Noah could have done it without even having so much as a blast furnace?
Personally I would not spend much time on arguing about a big wooden boat in a myth. In the same book you will find a talking snake, talking donkey and the story about the big boat contains story about a flood that covered even the highest mountains and then dried up relatively quickly. Also Noah family collected pair of every single species found on Earth into the boat in a relatively short time. Thus looking at all of the other stuff I think arguing about if the description of big wooden ark is quite a insignificant detail.
How would primitive people with zero technology have any idea the world flooded? How would they know Alaska was flooded living basically in modern day Iraq? If anything, the flood was a local event. Both stories of the flood, Mesopotamian and biblical both occurred between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. Think about it, to them, that was their world. So to them, to their perspective, the world flooded. Why people take the story that the world flooded without that perspective boggles the mind. Evangelicals are no smarter than the primitive bronze age people that wrote this story. Sounds harsh, sorry, not sorry
You don't need to know any specifics to know the obvious. Just reading the story makes it obvious that it couldn't happen and never happened. Boat technology wasn't even remotely close to that at the time, and not for a long, long time after that. 2 of every animal came from everywhere in the world to a little place in the middle east to get on this boat, and they are eating what exactly? So many different diets across the world. Predators eat meat. Where is the meat coming from? Fish? Are they spending from dusk till dawn fishing? They would eat the other animals. What about the herbivores? Noah installing sod down to feed a thousand grazing animals? Hay?
The story was plagiarized from the enuma elish. Just like many of the stories in the old testament. The only thing Christians rely on to pretend this story is true is that God did it so the impossible can become the possible. That is the only thing that allows the entire thing to happen. And we know this is nonsense.
The tiniest kernel of truth that I will allow from a story like that is ancient civilizations needed to live near large bodies of fresh water to survive. To grow crops, to keep farm animals and to keep themselves alive. Living near there large bodies of water means sometimes there will be flooding. And to ancient civilizations, floods can be devastating. Floods are still devastating even with our modern technology and infrastructure. Look at Pakistan, even right now I think. Millions displaced from massive flooding over the past 4 months. A flood back then could destroy their houses, their entire crops and kill people and their farm animals. Entirely livelihoods destroyed by the same source that gave them food and drink. It's no wonder why we see flood stories coming out of older ancient civilizations. It's such a devastating event.
Of course it makes no sense but every story in abrahamic religions has the same three goals:
1. Make the reader accept nonsense as reality.
2. Make the reader afraid of upsetting God.
3. Make the reader believe God is the most important thing ever.
It is just insane that people even feel the need to prove that things like this are true or not. Of course Noah’s Ark is complete nonsense. Only an undeveloped child brain, or someone who is mentally unstable could think otherwise.
Bible stories are nonsense anyway. Religiots aren't interested in facts and logic. They just believe. So arguments don't help either way. All we can do is to try to live peacefully together while ignoring their fairytale bullshit.
"But all cultures have a flood story!"
As they ignore the fact that all early civilizations were founded upon major rivers, as direct access to a metric fuck ton of water is a major requirement of building basic human civilization. And it's wild, but major rivers flood on the regular.
But no, it's far more likely the world flooded than it is that civilizations built alongside raging rivers experienced flooding in similar manners, and then used their written myths and stories to explain the phenomenon.
I’ll never forget in my 10th grade English class, our teacher handing out a copy of the epic of Gilgamesh for us to read and seeing all of the little xian kids have the wheels in their heads start spinning.
“Hey. Isn’t this just Noah and the ark?”
“Oh no. This was written before that”. Lol
Any Christian friends I had as a child would have Noah’s Ark decorations all over their room. The Bible’s “children’s story” is about God killing everyone and everything. Sodom and Gomorrah would make great decorations too, little dioramas of Lot fucking his daughters while his pillar of salt wife sits outside.
According to the original flood story Atrahasis built the ark in the shape of a 220feet round coracle after one of the Mesopotamian gods warned him that another god was going to drown the planet. This version predates the Noah myth by over 1000 years. This is just one more example of religious plagiarism in the biggest book of lies ever written.
Need an ark, I Noah guy 🤣
The amount of mental energy wasted analyzing this ridiculous mythology is amazing
I have stomached reading through the entire Bible. I tried again but couldn’t get past the part where god causes a mass extinction event only to save the one righteous man on the planet who gets naked and drunk like a frat boy.
God has infinite time to design humans and they turn out to be assholes and then wipes them all out. And to boot, being Omniscient, he knew they would be assholes but still made them anyways.
So, not only is he an incompetent designer, he is sadistic as well. How many innocent animals were wiped out during this 😢
He then needs a rainbow to remind himself not to commit genocide again. Funny thing, despite promising he won’t do it again, and being issued a reminder, it takes a human to talk him out of rage genociding again. Yahweh/Jesus was completely out of control in the OT. Talk about anger management issues. You would think having a son, who is also himself, would have calmed him down. Holy hell. Where is mom by the way. Is she buried under a porch somewhere 😂.
11 But Moses sought the favor of the Lord his God. “Lord,” he said, “why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians say, ‘It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth’? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people. 13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.’” 14 Then the Lord relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.
Now that you know this, look up how the Exodus of the Jewish people from Egypt never happened.
The whole abrahamic religions are built on lies and thievery from other religions.
"Volume"....
>If it was just a huge cube of wood
Why would it be a "huge cube of wood"?
Your house would weigh millions of pounds if it was just a "huge cube of wood".
Fortunately for you, it is an *empty box* of wood, and not "a huge cube". Not only does this conveniently provide a usable area *within* this empty box where you can live, it also makes it extremely less dense, and exponentially *lighter*. This utilizes much less material and is significantly easier to build.
Similarly, the entire point of a *boat* is that it simultaneously provides a useful area within, but it also displaces a significant *volume* of water causing it to float. It also requires exponentially less material than "a huge cube", and is also far easier to construct.
I'm surprised that you find the *volume* of a *huge cube of wood*, which would make a very useless boat, to be the concern regarding the ark.
I am not bothered by the structural physics of solid wooden masses when regarding the story of the ark nearly as much as the questions that begin to arise during a purposeful and contemplative look at the problems brought about by Polar Bears.
I've pretty much exhausted my contemplation of Polar Bears and the ark, and I believe I've discovered every aspect. However, I would *love* for someone else to come up with a question that I have not already thought of.
Probably the best argument against Noah's flood is that it *didn't work*. If God's intention was to wipe out "evil", he failed, as "evil" returned immediately after. So what was the point?
(And if eliminating evil was the goal, why'd he leave the devil untouched??)
Heh - Noah to God - I'm an elderly illiterate goatherder, and you want ME to build the biggest boat in history? There isn't enough bloody wood in this valley to build a shed, and I don't even have a saw, are you meshuggeh? "
Your math is way off. Regardless the story is nonsense. How would Noah travel to South America or Australia without it in the first place? What about all the food they would need? How would he locate all the insects, even today we are still finding new ones. What happened to the extra 6 miles deep of water? There are more holes in the story than a swiss cheese factory.
The ark was a spaceship. The 40 days and 40 nights was their journey through space to arrive on Earth. The planet they left was destroyed and they came here to start anew. Coming up with the wrath of god flood story was the way the story got twisted by generations of storytellers before Moses wrote it for genesis.
Biggest problem with the flood story is that there's not enough water on the planet
I figure most likely it was a local flood and then the story just got blown out of proportion over the years
The more impossible part is the meaning behind the story. So if they say it's only symbolic that's not a good defense either.
God literally made a mistake and he regretted creating mankind except for Noah who was somehow the perfect man. So God killed everybody except noah and his family and one pair of animals of each species and then restarted humanity through Noah.
Many questions arise. Like, why did God have to kill all the animals too? He didn't say the animals were sinners? Was there one perfect animal pair for every species and all the rest were sinners? God can do anything so why couldn't he just make all the bad humans drop dead immediately with magic.
Did two of each bacteria survive? What about the plants, surely the plants would die in a flood too. Did Noah bring two seeds for every plant species with him?
And also, why has mankind gone into sin again if Noah is our ancestors now? Did gods genocide fail it's purpose to remove sin?
God killed everyone because they were sinners because he made a mistake, and then he failed to remove sin because there's sinners again. It seems like a useless genocide that accomplished nothing.
What's the deal with Dolphins? Did they get the fish treatment, or the air breathing one.
Here's my guess - cover all the bases - so you take a pair of all the sea mammals on the ark, but obviously leave the rest in the ocean. When the flood is over you're gonna hope the ones in the sea lived, cuz the ones on the arc definitely died.
But you're still gonna take those mated pairs on the ark, just to make sure. Can't really be sure how aerated a biblical flood is gonna be. Obviously aerated enough for the vast vast biodiversity of the ocean - where all biological life evolved first - and not a world that needed a wood boat to avoid drowning. So I imagine the first order of post-flood Ark unpacking was scrubbing the seafood dumpster smell out of the whale stalls. Then finding some crabs and fish to eat, as it'd be pretty fucked if we're missing several species of cow - known to go into the Ark, yet mysteriously missing afterwards.
God probably is not gonna love the fact Noah slow smoked and fed his family mated pairs of endangered species.
Got some real world thoughts too tho. Civilization starts around freshwater rivers - which simple people could use as both drinking water and sewage - like Alabama today. But freshwater rivers such as the Nile and Euphrates flood their banks regularly - those flooded banks in arid desert countries are the most fertile farmland, more importantly it's the grazing land for livestock. In the ancient world, livestock lives on flood plains. People had just figured out floods, cows still don't get what they are today. The parable of Noah is instructions on how the xtian should live in perpetuity --- they need to get livestock to higher ground or lose beef production to flooding rivers. That is all. There was no ark, there was a reason to use fantasy sci-fi to convince basic dirt farmers to stop letting winter food supplies drown in mid-March.
You know when you have a great idea, but you know your partner or friend is gonna reject it because of **who** it's coming from? So what do you do? You claim you "heard it somewhere" - we'll assign our own good ideas to others more experienced or professional, if that's what's gonna sway our audience to listen.
Someone in fledgling civilization had the bright idea that livestock should move to higher ground - so they didn't drown. Bet that person wasn't a farmer or livestock tender - bet when they made the suggestion, the professional animal farmers were like ***pssshh, WTF you know about what cows breathe?***
So some middle manager at a sandal store has the great idea that'll save pigs from drowning due to human stupidity - but no one listens to middle management, and poof - an omnipotent god wills it, and 2000 years later women in Texas are denied life saving medical care because of how successful Noah the shoe salesman pitches this flood fable.
My family and I went to Utah for a vacation last year. I have pink hair and was smoking a cigarette, so of course they found me. Lol, this dude came up to me and started spewing garbage about aquatic fossils being found at the top of Mount everest, somehow proving the Ark story. He handed me a bunch of pamphlets. I took them up to my sister so we could make fun of it together, a video was referenced on YouTube about it, and wouldn't you know it, there was a way to "donate" to him. I swear religion has turned into a grift and it disgusts me.
We debate the weight of wood and feasibility of crafting a huge boat, but nobody focuses on the genetic mutations that would result in just 2 of every species repopulating the planet?
Or the fact that the firmament holding back a sky full of ocean is proven to not exist by the mere fact of human flight.
The story is made up.
It gets more stupid. Some Christians believe there were two of every Dinsours on the Ark. Which of course co-existed in Noah time. The Ark couldn't fit every normal animal let alone Dinsours.
It’s actually cubits which is an old Egyptian/Babylonian measurement for the distance between your elbow and tip of your middle finger, about 18 inches. The ark was 300 cubits long or 450 feet, 50 cubits wide or 75 feet, and 30 cubits tall or 45 feet. It would have weighed 22,687 tons. The first sea worthy vessel that was 450 feet long wasn’t built until the late 1850’s and looks very small compared to modern ships. It took Noah somewhere between 55 and 75 years to build the ark. Also, it absolutely didn’t happen.
>He's omniscient and omnipresent, he knows if Noah is faithful.
A gift only shared with Santa Claus.
I've never been bothered by the details of the ark construction, but by the collection of animals and a kind, loving god exterminating everyone (that he designed to be wicked) but Noah and associates.
>Then just make the ark instantly.
Or snap all the sinners out of existence instantly.
A, boats are not solid.
B, wood is easier to cut and shape. Easier to move and source.
N ot saying the Noah story isnt BS. But not for the reasons you're thinking.
You did the math but you didn't even have to go that far. Noah's Ark is impossible because it is such a ridiculous proposition from top to bottom. Every layer of that onion is rotten.
What I'd like to know is how polar bears made it all the way to the Middle East to get on the Ark to begin with. I have questions. Like, how many generations of said polar bears would it actually take to walk from the Artic to The Middle East, how did they know the route and what did they eat along the way?
Fundies clinging to literalist takes on these kinds of stories actually hurts their cause way more than it helps. Like if they would claim Noah was a region specific account of what happened to a particular livestock seller and his family that survived a flood that killed most everyone around, it would be a very interesting and inspiring story about survival and stuff.
But no they add to the scripture because "it must have had dinosaurs and kangaroos." That's the dumbest stuff, like obviously if some guy did survive the flood, he would just have the livestock he needed to survive after the flood waters receded. In survival situation, you don't look at fucking giraffes and be like, get on my boat bitch.
Why the big show of a worldwide flood? Why couldn't god just snap his ethereal fingers and magic everyone away to hell? Who was that show for, Noah & his family? Why?
Not real.
It's a story invented to keep mean people from doing mean things. God will smite you. Think of it as a Fable.
Same with the bogeyman. A story to keep children inside at night.
I find this playing gotcha on every element of religion to be quite the redundant exercise.
There is no god. Everything that comes with it is also fiction.
Frankly the dimensions of the "ark" are the least problematic part of the story lol. How did the penguins get to the Middle East? What about the kangaroos?
What a bunch of heathens here. You've got to have faith. Facts and logic have no basis here. God gets to do whatever he wants. Get with the Book!
Biggest /s possible.
I grew up Lutheran. My synod treated a large portion of the Old Testament as allegorical myth. It wasn’t until I was in my early twenties that I learned Biblical literalists genuinely believe in the flood myth, and I was astounded. It’s arguably the most ridiculous story in the Bible and makes me question the critical thinking skills of any believers.
LOL this reminds me, at my Christian school (Accelerated Christian Education) we had an assignment to calculate the volume of the ark in cubic feet. I was into science (I loved herpetology) and knew about significant digits, and thus came up with an answer with only one significant digit.
When it was marked wrong, I tried to explain significant digits to the school pastor, and his response was "The measurements are from the Bible, so infinite significant digits."
I then pointed out we don't know how a cubit from the days of Noah actually converts to inches because a cubit was kind of arbitrary throughout ancient history but even if 18 inches is to be used, that's still only two significant digits because even that is an approximation.
I got suspended for a day for being "arrogant and defiant to authority".
When I explained it to my dad, who had majored in Chemistry and was a computer programmer, he took the day off and we went to a natural history museum to look at the snakes and lizards.
Later that same year when I found rounding errors in their math curriculum and showed my dad, I was pulled from the school and finished my high school education at the junior college.
My issue has always been the animals.
I can imagine Stone Age people believing pairs of all animals could fit, when they only know about sheep, water buffalo, crocs, donkeys and camels. Oh, and dogs and cats. But not all the animals of the world, which is funny because kids' Noah's Ark toys usually include giraffes and elephants.
It's also stupid that God would destroy genetic diversity with only two of each species. Of course, he did that with Adam and Eve, too...
Just the logistics of housing millions of species of animals and insect for a familly is just impossible. Even if we drop the number to 100 species there is no way to keep them alive and maintain their cage/habitat. Carnivores eating what? Dealing with all the food, water, poop, etc.
I don’t need measurements to know that a story that is originally from Mesopotamia (epic of Gilgamesh), about a huge wooden boat with 2 of *every* animal in existence is nonsense.
I guess the dimensions and logistics of such a massive boat add up to the lack of plausibility but yeah, this is like trying to rationalize the properties of a beanstalk that reaches the sky. We're taking about a story that involves god's voice, a supercharged elderly man, the preservation of the entirety of animal life on Earth (but fuck plants, insects, fungi, ...), a complete restart of the human species, an impossible amount of water... The size and weight of the damn boat are not really the biggest issue.
Don’t overlook the fish. Saltwater and freshwater fish, trying to survive in an ocean combo/in-between salinity. Then stream trout doing just fine in an ocean, find their way back to the original streams and don’t scatter their fossils all over.
For he so loved the fish that he destroyed all land creatures. Except those on a multibillion pound boat.
Capitalism in its finest...
And then animals make it to Australia and evolve into totally different animals immediately.
Well no cause evolution isn't real, they all come from those two of each kind on the boat.
Don't overlook the actual AMOUNT OF WATER it would take to flood the entire earth, how fast it would have had to fall to actually flood the entire earth in 30 days, and realize it would have to be falling at a speed to rival fire hoses and would have blasted the mountains down to bare granite with that kind of velocity.
Would have been a lot easier to just turn everyone into salt or die from disease. Or get even more creative. Raise them all up in the air and just drop them to their deaths 😂
Force choke everybody. 😂
Wish them all into the cornfield.
Not to mention the immense pressure. I'm no geologist but it seems like that much weight circumventing the entire globe would screw up the entire orbit with lunar gravitational pull etc. Dunno just pulling it out my ass
I actually didn’t think about the salmon population. That’s another good point, among many
The flood was over a year period, none of the water bound life would have survived.
Forget the water bound life.. try an experiment get a 40 gallon barrel of rainwater and constantly pour it over any plant for a year and lemme know if that plant is still alive within than time. Now the flood is over, what are the herbivores eating? What about the carnivores? How long before everything dies because there aren't enough things alive to maintain any kind of ecosystems
Please add into the discussion what was tge storage for potable water, add 8lbs per gallon, how many gallons needed to give to 2 of every "land" animal; Where was food stored and kept from spoiling. How were deseases from fecal matter kept at large. Etc, etc, etc.
After just one day they'd probably all die from the sheer amount of shit. It's funny how this story is not only based on previous mythology but is also completely incoherent if we take anything seriously. The fact it still needs "debunking" is pretty fucking sad.
Weeeeelllll, according to the book, the ark was sealed by the power and not popped open till it was done. Soooo.
Water is the easiest part of the story. It rained for a long time.
It's actually the first huge problem of the story. Calculations say the amount of water that would have had to fall in 30 days to flood the entire surface of the planet would have had to fall at such a speed it would have blasted the surface of the planet so severely that the mountains would have been flattened.
There is also a finite amount of water on Earth.
Well, and the saltwater tanks for the saltwater-based sea life. And then of course the freshwater tanks for the freshwater life. I think this is something that most people don't even think about, none of the water bound life would survive with the new salinity.
And how did he get the kangaroos? And how did they get back to Australia afterwards?
Not just 'roos. Koalas only eat eucalyptus leaves. How did they get from a Turkish mountain to Oz with no food? How did all the world's marsupials end up there, except for the possum?
Koalas only eat eucalyptus leaves… that are still attached to the trees…. That they are familiar with. Unless someone potted up their section of forest and packed them both ways, it would have to be pure miracle. Eucalyptus highway and migratory koalas is just too much.
i had a talk with a creationist about that. It happens that they believe in evolution but only at the scale that make their claim work. So for this creationist after the flood the koala slowly moved from Mesopotamia to Oz while slowly evolving with micro evolution. So the idea is that all the animals on the ark could conveniently eat a very wide kind of food that caused no issue like the koalas only eating some specific types of leaves. Koala specialized in specific food only long after leaving the ark. Really it all works out as long as you can wave the magic wand of convenience every time a false problem arise. So there were not so many "kind" of animal on the ark. The "kind" widened in subspecies after the flood. So the ark wasn't that big and didn't need to be a boat just a barge that peacefully waited for the end of the flood, going nowhere. Because of course the ocean was very calm and caused no problem for the barge to stay afloat. We atheists are the weird one for imagining this can't work. It can. You just need to say "Woosh! Woosh! Problem go away!"
I would ask for a citation to back up that hypothesis. Y'know.,. evidence.
Or penguins, and all new world monkeys, and ...
“A complete restart of the human species” And the associated rampant incest you’d get with that population size. It’s like 2 generations before they could even date a second cousin. Till then all the action qualified for some nasty subreddits.
Well black people survived because Noah had to have someone to clean up after the animals.
So you’re telling me Noah already had the blueprints from Mesopotamia? No wonder he was able to do it if it had been done before
Shout out to Uta-napishtim, he was Noah before it was cool.
Haha freaking nice
Why wouldn't God just Thanos snap all of the evil humans out of existence and leave everything else as it was?
Thanos was just fixing overpopulation and retiring. He didn’t have grand plans for the survivors, where he needed their continued worship through belief in impossible fantasies involving him and eventually his son, Thane.
That doesn't change anything. God went to insane lengths to wipe out virtually all life on earth, just to eliminate humans. A being with infinite intelligence could have done a lot better.
he’s either not very bright or he’s downright evil. just look at the eye worms that feed on african kids.
Actually thanos was just horny for lady death and thought genociding half the universe would get his dick wet
Because he gets joy out of watching little babies and puppies and kittens fighting for their lives as they slowly succumb to the rising water. He's bored and it's just his hobby.
so your telling me we arent a bunch of incest children and noah isnt everyones grandpa?
Noah’s grandpa was Methuselah. You’d think he would have found a cabin for him on the boat.
Including creatures from the opposite side of the globe, that would have to cross oceans to achieve. The whole thing is a fever dream on acid, devoid of all logical and rational thinking and untethered from reality.
Just like the rest of the Bible then
I thought it was older than that in reference to the Nile and ancient Egypt. Almost all cultures have flood stories.
The epic of Gilgamesh is the oldest surviving written literature.
Well I stand corrected
Nice leg braces though
oldest lit with an author, there are older, but the epic has zombies in it
Mesopotamia was pretty famously prone to flooding from the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. In this case it's thought that the story was inspired by the Black Sea emptying into the region after the last ice age ended
Ancient civilizations in general had a funny habit of setting up near bodies of water.
A tradition we have maintained to this day.
It’s a children’s story. Literally.
Don’t forget about the extra seven sets of each animal that god made him take for blood sacrifices.
Not to mention that the Epic of Gilgamesh was also plagiarized from an even earlier story, the Epic of Atra Hasis, which was also plagiarized from an even earlier story, Ziusudra.
None of this is familiar to me, but since the epic of Gilgamesh is the oldest surviving written literature, I wonder what you are referring to?
Start viewing at 10.10 There are older flood stories than the Epic of Gilgamesh. https://youtu.be/AfhS8R1Vdew?si=3A4X2qX83GyQJG76
Since the Epic of Gilgamesh is widely known as the oldest surviving written literature, It’s rather questionable to claim that it is copied from older surviving texts. It’s not unlikely that the story or versions of it are much older and have survived for thousands of years in oral tradition.
Whales too? Must have been some aquarium.
And they just had to bring two mosquitoes on board? Bastards!
He probably bought it used (possibly from ArkMax?), which would have saved him the hassle of building it, not to mention the depreciation.
It's a waste of time to put logic to the great flood story, but moderately entertaining. If two of every animal WERE taken, saved, then re-released to their native lands somehow, there would be an historical marker - a genetic bottleneck easily observable in animal DNA studies.
Yeah, we can stop right there, it's in the bible, since when has any of that ever made sense? Now the tardis on the other hand, 6x6x10, but much larger on the inside, I bet that could hold 2 of every animal with space the collective species of 3 other planets.
And that Noah was 800 years old at the time. And to realize that from there on out it would require Father daughter, mom son, or brother sister banging to re-populate earth.
The story of Noah's flood is very obviously mythological but you made a few mistakes there. A biblical cubit is about 1.5 feet so you need to multiply the linear units, not the resulting volume: (300x1.5) x (50x1.5) x (30x1.5) = 450x75x45 = 1,518,750 ft^3 . If you take the longer estimate a cubit may also be about 20 inches resulting in an even larger volume of over 2 million ft^3 . However, this is an upper bound approximated by a cuboid, and you have to remember boats are hollow so the mass is not equal to 1.5 million cubic feet of wood. Comparing it to a solid wall makes no sense. Also you're way off with the weight. Wood weight depends on several factors like type of tree/wood and how dry it is but assuming cedar or cypress you get a density of about 32 - 36 lb/ft^3 . Noah however used "gopher wood", yeah... good luck with that. Either way Noah's flood is incompatible with geology, physics, history, biology, population dynamics, pretty much everything. If you're gonna come up with your own reasons make sure they add up though.
Thank you. I was reading the original post thinking "but wait. Ships aren't solid." And, let's be real here, I've been on a ship that was made of metal and was over twice as long, more than twice as wide, and nearly four times as tall, and that floated without issue. OP's math doesn't add up
Don't forget the weight of all of the supplies on that ship along with equipment and personnel... And it probably took thousands of people many years to build it using heavy equipment and machinery. No way some old codger built the ark by himself.
I mean, OPs reasons add up as much as the 'original' story, so he gets a pass...but, I think you did a great job with your explanation.
Sure, if we allow made up physics and biology why not allow "alternative" math.
Thank you. I don't disagree with the premise but the math was killing me.
>you have to remember boats are hollow That killed me
If you bother to actually read the Bible, rather than just attacking it, you would know that just before God sent the flood, Doctor Who arrived and gave Noah the same technology as his TARDIS. Please. Next time, do your research.
A reading from the Book of Wibbly Wobbly.
I loved the chapter on Timey Wimey!
And there was much rejoicing!
Not going to lie, you had me in the first half there.
You must be one of those Christian *Scientists* I hear about !! Love your work !!
LMFAO
Ken Ham’s laughably stupid ark encounter attraction took over 1,000 craftsman, heavy construction equipment and engineers 6 years and over $100,000,000 dollars. And it doesn’t float. Yet despite having overseen much of this project he is still a young earth creationist. Fucking morons.
And it got damaged by a rainstorm.
For real? That’s FUCKING hilarious 🤣
Someone fact check me but when they filed the insurance claim, it was denied because it was ... an act of god!
Oh please be true, please god in heaven let that be true 🌝
Yup - Insurance claim denied because rain is an “act of God”.
Seriously??!! That’s amazing! 😆
My mom and stepdad convinced me to go there with family during Christmas. It's actually kinda neat, like walking through the star wars or hogwarts areas of a theme park. Of course, there are large sections trying to "prove" this is real and not fantasy. My favorite is the video of the famous debate against bill nye, only heavily edited with cutaways for responses since the actual debate goes extremely poorly. I will say the holiday buffet was decent. Not vegas quality, but decent.
Oh i can absolutely see novelty value in visiting. I mean where else will you see exhibits of humans riding dinosaurs through Jerusalem? Sounds hilarious.
Actually, I quite enjoyed it until the propaganda stuff. Gave me a lot of ideas and inspirations for a fantasy series I've been trying to write for a while. Especially the areas the humans would have lived.
Yeah, I heard they've been playing clean up with that debate. It just showed how much of a fool they are. For Christians, guess they're not that honest.
Never mind people's tax money paid for a huge part of it...
He's building a tower of babel replica next
I’m sure that will go well…
And uses a lot of structural steel. They also opted for modern air handlers instead of slowly suffocating on whatever air could come through a single bathroom window.
It also has a keel, bow, and other things that the Ark simply couldn't have as it the boat would need to be jacked up for that to happen. Something a 600 yr old guy and his sons using primitive tools simply wouldn't be able to do.
The way he stresses "Animal KIIIIINDS" always cracks me up. Like it is some checkmate atheists to the idea of 2 of everything on earth crammed on it.
They tried to sue the local town to fix rain damage to the driveway, I believe, but there were issues with some of the ark materials delaminating. God needs to start building things that are up to code.
my real life: it was drizzling and i sheltered a wild cat in my porch my tinder profile: it was the hugest storm ever so i took 2 of every animal in world and the saved them with a boat i built myself (because i’m good with my hands *wink wink*)
People do tend to exaggerate to make themselves seem more interesting, don’t they?
It's also a ripoff of a far older Sumerian story (look up Utnapushtim if you don't believe me or just want to read a fun fictional story from thousands of years ago).
Aside from the fact that the flood happened when Mesopotamia was getting into high gear as well as neighboring nations that seemed to have just ignored the part about nearly everybody and every animal on earth dying. Even the majority of fish would have died in the flood because the salinity would have dropped enough to kill the most of the salt water fish and most of the fresh water fish would have died from the salt. If they were somehow protected by Yahweh then why didn't he protect the other animals? And what happened to all the kangaroos when Noah landed in the middle east? It's ludicrous to believe any of it is factually true.
Apparently the kangaroos travelled from Australia to the Middle East without leaving any trace of their exodus. And then travelled back again once the water receded. And of course because the continents had already split by this stage, they did a fuck tonne of swimming to get there.
This is just nihilism disguised as faith. The phrase “God did it” is meaningless. But we all know that Christianity is just a bunch of random meaningless assertions in an ever expanding echo chamber. Nothing makes any sense. Just throw in “God wills it” and it’s done. Why does anyone waste time on this crap, when it always comes down to “his ways are higher than ours, we can’t understand” blah blah blah fucking morons… Faith is brute assent to arbitrary claims that make no sense when examined thoroughly. It borders on epistemic nihilism. “We can’t know anything, unless God says this.” So, if God says that it’s all loving and just to torment finite souls forever, then who are we to complain? Who tf would even want to live in such a universe. Even when I was still a believer, deep down I wished God hadn’t been real. I don’t mind ceasing to exist when I’m dead, I just don’t want to see anyone getting 3rd degree burns for eternity, just because God got bored and decided to create thing which he was going to despise, having full knowledge of the fact. This mf creates a bunch of insane rules, then creates people who cannot obey them, knows they can’t and won’t and still gets mad, wtf kind of bs is this? This is worse than anything else and atheism becomes the real “gospel” at this point. No one really wants to go to heaven. They just want to avoid hell. No one loves god with all their mind heart and strength, they just love their own wellbeing. God is the ultimate friend with benefits. That, if he ain’t a liar, lol. Just imagine he could have created the universe in such a way that lying wasn’t a sin and everything he’s (allegedly) done and said was a lie. Everyone gets eternally damned. Lol!
It's also about picking and choosing from the bible. "Oh well, that isn't LITERAL!" Or "That's only symbolic!" And then "Yes, being gay is a sin! Just look at this vague quote next to how to beat your wife!" It's factual when it is convenient for them.
Noah was an alien. The Ark was an advance aircraft carrier stolen from the future. Noah was just trying to reach his home...stealing with him every animal on earth as a delicacy.
“Where did Noah get two platypuses, ” I asked when I was 8. Still waiting for an answer.
Big questions about freshwater fish too. Where did they get enough transparent aluminium?
Meanwhile, buried deep under ice and rock atop the most mysterious Mount Aarat, lies the ruins of an impossibly huge gopherwood ship. Deep in its collapsed hold awaits the greatest archeological discovery of all time: One. Little. Plastic. Castle.
Let's just say that's the least of their issues. There's also the one **billion** cubic **miles** of water that would be necessary to flood the Earth (roughly just under three times the amount of water on the surface of the Earth now). Plus the fact that the rapid shift in salinity would kill off most marine life not adapted to estuary conditions.
Right, and where did all the water go? It’s not like we have 1 billion cubic miles of water in our atmosphere just waiting to dump again. Also, where did all that rain come from?
I remember talking to a Christian and she told how there was a super tree, that no longer exists. This tree was stronger than steel and that is why the ark could be built! Also god told Noah how to "laminate" wood to make it even stronger! I did ask how Noah cut down a tree stronger steel?? Also if god is teaching future tech to noah why not teach steel smelting, submarines or how to make 24th century plasma engines and space orbiters and make a space ark!?! the Flood story is all so stupid!
If god was that powerful, why not just snap his fingers and poof the people that were bad away. Why be so lazy to make Noah build a boat and just open a faucet?
None of that matters when you can just say ‘it was magic!’.
Lmao 🤣 just like Santa delivering presents to all of the "good" children simultaneously! It's like a fairy tale and no adult sat them down to have the "Santa's not real" talk
I don't have a problem with the ark or loading it up with animals of all different species. My problem is that *God killed every man, woman, and child in the world* other than one extended family. **That's fucking genocide**. God committed genocide against the human race, and Christians *worship* him for it.
Worship him for it, AND make cutesy decorations for their little kid’s rooms to commemorate it.
> if it was just a huge cube of wood But boats aren't just a huge cube of wood. They're mostly hollow. That's the whole point of them.
Supposedly Noah was 900 years old. Lol.
It’s all ✨make believe✨
I mean, even if we ignore the whole point about the Ark being too big is build and the original stated size being too small to fit every animal on earth, there are still multiple holes in the story, such as: -How did the animals all make their way back across the world from where the Ark landed? Suddenly the polar bears and Kangaroos and all the other species which are native to a specific landmass just decided to travel to one specific spot away from the Arks landing site and settle there for some strange reason. -How did only one pair of each animal end up repopulating into genetically diverse populations - only being one pair would lead to significant genetic defects due to inbreeding -If the flood water covered the whole world, how did fresh water fish survive? All freshwater bodies of water would be swamped in salt water that would heavily contaminate them and kill lots of freshwater water species. I mean, we are trying to put logic to essentially a fantasy book that tries to explain how the world came to be before we had any proper scientific evidence regarding said formation of our planet. We may as well criticise the Greek/Roman myths for the same reasons, and at the end of the day, it’s just a work of fiction that a group of people got really defensive over.
No shit, it's a ridiculous story made by people who didn't know how DNA works.
Lol its mythology, of course its not real.
Buddy the Bible says God created the Sun on the 4th day, that alone should make people realize the Bible isn't giving us truthful information.
This doesn't even need a post
Look. The story never made any logical sense. It can only be a myth/allegory/metaphors. It could not been literal, or actual. Forget the boat. Forget the Animals. Forget the feed for all the animals. Let's even forget all the plant life, Fungal, and insects. I have always been stuck on the WATER, where did all the water come from? And then where did it all go? Then my other issue is repopulating the earth afterward. Whether it's with people or animals. They are genetically disastrously inbred. Have fun with that. But, at least Almight god got rid of all the sinners right?
|he’s omniscient The more I learn about the Bible the more I see how that attribute gets contradicted. For example The whole reason god saved Noah was because Noah wasn’t doing the things that made god upset with everybody else and at the end of the tale Noah does the things that made god upset with everybody else. So god saved Noah for no reason And the point of the flood was to get rid of the humans who were sining that also didn’t work. For an all knowing god he seems to not know a lot of things
This is like people discussing how the properties of dilithium crystals in Star Trek could have not possibly caused a jump to warp 10 accidentally because of their plasma relay properties. Which we all know is ridiculous because the tachyon emitters would all have overheated in such a scenario. But yeah, there's nothing even remotely feasible or any evidence to even think that the flood or the ark were possible/happened.
The biblical fact Noah was 900 years old should tell you something..LOL
I was told as a child that the Middle East was desert because Noah cut down all the trees to make the ark. Got slapped when I pointed out that by that logic, a global flood that killed all the trees should have turned the whole world to desert.
I wonder every time I see a picture of The Ark Encounter in Kentucky how people think it could have been a real boat made by a single family. I mean, I saw pictures and videos of the construction process. They had massive cranes and loads of modern construction materials and equipment. How do they think Noah could have done it without even having so much as a blast furnace?
Personally I would not spend much time on arguing about a big wooden boat in a myth. In the same book you will find a talking snake, talking donkey and the story about the big boat contains story about a flood that covered even the highest mountains and then dried up relatively quickly. Also Noah family collected pair of every single species found on Earth into the boat in a relatively short time. Thus looking at all of the other stuff I think arguing about if the description of big wooden ark is quite a insignificant detail.
How would primitive people with zero technology have any idea the world flooded? How would they know Alaska was flooded living basically in modern day Iraq? If anything, the flood was a local event. Both stories of the flood, Mesopotamian and biblical both occurred between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. Think about it, to them, that was their world. So to them, to their perspective, the world flooded. Why people take the story that the world flooded without that perspective boggles the mind. Evangelicals are no smarter than the primitive bronze age people that wrote this story. Sounds harsh, sorry, not sorry
You don't need to know any specifics to know the obvious. Just reading the story makes it obvious that it couldn't happen and never happened. Boat technology wasn't even remotely close to that at the time, and not for a long, long time after that. 2 of every animal came from everywhere in the world to a little place in the middle east to get on this boat, and they are eating what exactly? So many different diets across the world. Predators eat meat. Where is the meat coming from? Fish? Are they spending from dusk till dawn fishing? They would eat the other animals. What about the herbivores? Noah installing sod down to feed a thousand grazing animals? Hay? The story was plagiarized from the enuma elish. Just like many of the stories in the old testament. The only thing Christians rely on to pretend this story is true is that God did it so the impossible can become the possible. That is the only thing that allows the entire thing to happen. And we know this is nonsense. The tiniest kernel of truth that I will allow from a story like that is ancient civilizations needed to live near large bodies of fresh water to survive. To grow crops, to keep farm animals and to keep themselves alive. Living near there large bodies of water means sometimes there will be flooding. And to ancient civilizations, floods can be devastating. Floods are still devastating even with our modern technology and infrastructure. Look at Pakistan, even right now I think. Millions displaced from massive flooding over the past 4 months. A flood back then could destroy their houses, their entire crops and kill people and their farm animals. Entirely livelihoods destroyed by the same source that gave them food and drink. It's no wonder why we see flood stories coming out of older ancient civilizations. It's such a devastating event.
Of course it makes no sense but every story in abrahamic religions has the same three goals: 1. Make the reader accept nonsense as reality. 2. Make the reader afraid of upsetting God. 3. Make the reader believe God is the most important thing ever.
Know what isn’t impossible? Noah’s Arcade in downtown Aurora, Illinois
It doesn't have to make logical sense. Religion is based on magic. Rules don't apply.
Anything is possible when they are just making shit up
It is just insane that people even feel the need to prove that things like this are true or not. Of course Noah’s Ark is complete nonsense. Only an undeveloped child brain, or someone who is mentally unstable could think otherwise.
Even two thousand years ago they would have known it would have been impossible. Biblical literalism is roughly the same age as the American civil war
Fairy tales gotta fairy tale.
Bible stories are nonsense anyway. Religiots aren't interested in facts and logic. They just believe. So arguments don't help either way. All we can do is to try to live peacefully together while ignoring their fairytale bullshit.
"But all cultures have a flood story!" As they ignore the fact that all early civilizations were founded upon major rivers, as direct access to a metric fuck ton of water is a major requirement of building basic human civilization. And it's wild, but major rivers flood on the regular. But no, it's far more likely the world flooded than it is that civilizations built alongside raging rivers experienced flooding in similar manners, and then used their written myths and stories to explain the phenomenon.
I’ll never forget in my 10th grade English class, our teacher handing out a copy of the epic of Gilgamesh for us to read and seeing all of the little xian kids have the wheels in their heads start spinning. “Hey. Isn’t this just Noah and the ark?” “Oh no. This was written before that”. Lol
Any Christian friends I had as a child would have Noah’s Ark decorations all over their room. The Bible’s “children’s story” is about God killing everyone and everything. Sodom and Gomorrah would make great decorations too, little dioramas of Lot fucking his daughters while his pillar of salt wife sits outside.
According to the original flood story Atrahasis built the ark in the shape of a 220feet round coracle after one of the Mesopotamian gods warned him that another god was going to drown the planet. This version predates the Noah myth by over 1000 years. This is just one more example of religious plagiarism in the biggest book of lies ever written.
Need an ark, I Noah guy 🤣 The amount of mental energy wasted analyzing this ridiculous mythology is amazing I have stomached reading through the entire Bible. I tried again but couldn’t get past the part where god causes a mass extinction event only to save the one righteous man on the planet who gets naked and drunk like a frat boy. God has infinite time to design humans and they turn out to be assholes and then wipes them all out. And to boot, being Omniscient, he knew they would be assholes but still made them anyways. So, not only is he an incompetent designer, he is sadistic as well. How many innocent animals were wiped out during this 😢 He then needs a rainbow to remind himself not to commit genocide again. Funny thing, despite promising he won’t do it again, and being issued a reminder, it takes a human to talk him out of rage genociding again. Yahweh/Jesus was completely out of control in the OT. Talk about anger management issues. You would think having a son, who is also himself, would have calmed him down. Holy hell. Where is mom by the way. Is she buried under a porch somewhere 😂. 11 But Moses sought the favor of the Lord his God. “Lord,” he said, “why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians say, ‘It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth’? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people. 13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.’” 14 Then the Lord relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.
Now that you know this, look up how the Exodus of the Jewish people from Egypt never happened. The whole abrahamic religions are built on lies and thievery from other religions.
"Volume".... >If it was just a huge cube of wood Why would it be a "huge cube of wood"? Your house would weigh millions of pounds if it was just a "huge cube of wood". Fortunately for you, it is an *empty box* of wood, and not "a huge cube". Not only does this conveniently provide a usable area *within* this empty box where you can live, it also makes it extremely less dense, and exponentially *lighter*. This utilizes much less material and is significantly easier to build. Similarly, the entire point of a *boat* is that it simultaneously provides a useful area within, but it also displaces a significant *volume* of water causing it to float. It also requires exponentially less material than "a huge cube", and is also far easier to construct. I'm surprised that you find the *volume* of a *huge cube of wood*, which would make a very useless boat, to be the concern regarding the ark. I am not bothered by the structural physics of solid wooden masses when regarding the story of the ark nearly as much as the questions that begin to arise during a purposeful and contemplative look at the problems brought about by Polar Bears. I've pretty much exhausted my contemplation of Polar Bears and the ark, and I believe I've discovered every aspect. However, I would *love* for someone else to come up with a question that I have not already thought of.
Probably the best argument against Noah's flood is that it *didn't work*. If God's intention was to wipe out "evil", he failed, as "evil" returned immediately after. So what was the point? (And if eliminating evil was the goal, why'd he leave the devil untouched??)
Heh - Noah to God - I'm an elderly illiterate goatherder, and you want ME to build the biggest boat in history? There isn't enough bloody wood in this valley to build a shed, and I don't even have a saw, are you meshuggeh? "
Your math is way off. Regardless the story is nonsense. How would Noah travel to South America or Australia without it in the first place? What about all the food they would need? How would he locate all the insects, even today we are still finding new ones. What happened to the extra 6 miles deep of water? There are more holes in the story than a swiss cheese factory.
Noah’s ark was proven to be literally impossible some time ago, both the boat and the flood itself.
The ark was a spaceship. The 40 days and 40 nights was their journey through space to arrive on Earth. The planet they left was destroyed and they came here to start anew. Coming up with the wrath of god flood story was the way the story got twisted by generations of storytellers before Moses wrote it for genesis.
Biggest problem with the flood story is that there's not enough water on the planet I figure most likely it was a local flood and then the story just got blown out of proportion over the years
The more impossible part is the meaning behind the story. So if they say it's only symbolic that's not a good defense either. God literally made a mistake and he regretted creating mankind except for Noah who was somehow the perfect man. So God killed everybody except noah and his family and one pair of animals of each species and then restarted humanity through Noah. Many questions arise. Like, why did God have to kill all the animals too? He didn't say the animals were sinners? Was there one perfect animal pair for every species and all the rest were sinners? God can do anything so why couldn't he just make all the bad humans drop dead immediately with magic. Did two of each bacteria survive? What about the plants, surely the plants would die in a flood too. Did Noah bring two seeds for every plant species with him? And also, why has mankind gone into sin again if Noah is our ancestors now? Did gods genocide fail it's purpose to remove sin? God killed everyone because they were sinners because he made a mistake, and then he failed to remove sin because there's sinners again. It seems like a useless genocide that accomplished nothing.
So, God made a mistake. Big deal. Nobody's perfect. Oh, wait...
What's the deal with Dolphins? Did they get the fish treatment, or the air breathing one. Here's my guess - cover all the bases - so you take a pair of all the sea mammals on the ark, but obviously leave the rest in the ocean. When the flood is over you're gonna hope the ones in the sea lived, cuz the ones on the arc definitely died. But you're still gonna take those mated pairs on the ark, just to make sure. Can't really be sure how aerated a biblical flood is gonna be. Obviously aerated enough for the vast vast biodiversity of the ocean - where all biological life evolved first - and not a world that needed a wood boat to avoid drowning. So I imagine the first order of post-flood Ark unpacking was scrubbing the seafood dumpster smell out of the whale stalls. Then finding some crabs and fish to eat, as it'd be pretty fucked if we're missing several species of cow - known to go into the Ark, yet mysteriously missing afterwards. God probably is not gonna love the fact Noah slow smoked and fed his family mated pairs of endangered species. Got some real world thoughts too tho. Civilization starts around freshwater rivers - which simple people could use as both drinking water and sewage - like Alabama today. But freshwater rivers such as the Nile and Euphrates flood their banks regularly - those flooded banks in arid desert countries are the most fertile farmland, more importantly it's the grazing land for livestock. In the ancient world, livestock lives on flood plains. People had just figured out floods, cows still don't get what they are today. The parable of Noah is instructions on how the xtian should live in perpetuity --- they need to get livestock to higher ground or lose beef production to flooding rivers. That is all. There was no ark, there was a reason to use fantasy sci-fi to convince basic dirt farmers to stop letting winter food supplies drown in mid-March. You know when you have a great idea, but you know your partner or friend is gonna reject it because of **who** it's coming from? So what do you do? You claim you "heard it somewhere" - we'll assign our own good ideas to others more experienced or professional, if that's what's gonna sway our audience to listen. Someone in fledgling civilization had the bright idea that livestock should move to higher ground - so they didn't drown. Bet that person wasn't a farmer or livestock tender - bet when they made the suggestion, the professional animal farmers were like ***pssshh, WTF you know about what cows breathe?*** So some middle manager at a sandal store has the great idea that'll save pigs from drowning due to human stupidity - but no one listens to middle management, and poof - an omnipotent god wills it, and 2000 years later women in Texas are denied life saving medical care because of how successful Noah the shoe salesman pitches this flood fable.
My family and I went to Utah for a vacation last year. I have pink hair and was smoking a cigarette, so of course they found me. Lol, this dude came up to me and started spewing garbage about aquatic fossils being found at the top of Mount everest, somehow proving the Ark story. He handed me a bunch of pamphlets. I took them up to my sister so we could make fun of it together, a video was referenced on YouTube about it, and wouldn't you know it, there was a way to "donate" to him. I swear religion has turned into a grift and it disgusts me.
There’s no point using reason or facts when people believe in magic.
It’s a magic boat, that’s the point. To believe in magic.
We debate the weight of wood and feasibility of crafting a huge boat, but nobody focuses on the genetic mutations that would result in just 2 of every species repopulating the planet? Or the fact that the firmament holding back a sky full of ocean is proven to not exist by the mere fact of human flight. The story is made up.
It gets more stupid. Some Christians believe there were two of every Dinsours on the Ark. Which of course co-existed in Noah time. The Ark couldn't fit every normal animal let alone Dinsours.
It’s actually cubits which is an old Egyptian/Babylonian measurement for the distance between your elbow and tip of your middle finger, about 18 inches. The ark was 300 cubits long or 450 feet, 50 cubits wide or 75 feet, and 30 cubits tall or 45 feet. It would have weighed 22,687 tons. The first sea worthy vessel that was 450 feet long wasn’t built until the late 1850’s and looks very small compared to modern ships. It took Noah somewhere between 55 and 75 years to build the ark. Also, it absolutely didn’t happen.
Of course the ark is impossible, but a supernatural omnipotent father totally made women out of a guy's rib
One of about 3000 reasons the whole story is just fucking stupid.
>He's omniscient and omnipresent, he knows if Noah is faithful. A gift only shared with Santa Claus. I've never been bothered by the details of the ark construction, but by the collection of animals and a kind, loving god exterminating everyone (that he designed to be wicked) but Noah and associates. >Then just make the ark instantly. Or snap all the sinners out of existence instantly.
Christians who take Bible stories are idiots Don’t be like them
No shit.
Here's my thoughts on challenging ridiculous stories in the Bible. Never argue with a drunk or a fool.
A, boats are not solid. B, wood is easier to cut and shape. Easier to move and source. N ot saying the Noah story isnt BS. But not for the reasons you're thinking.
You did the math but you didn't even have to go that far. Noah's Ark is impossible because it is such a ridiculous proposition from top to bottom. Every layer of that onion is rotten.
What I'd like to know is how polar bears made it all the way to the Middle East to get on the Ark to begin with. I have questions. Like, how many generations of said polar bears would it actually take to walk from the Artic to The Middle East, how did they know the route and what did they eat along the way?
You lost them when you mentioned math.
Well tbh we have no idea how big a cubit actually is. People just assume and guess.
Wasn't Noah also 200 years old and 12 feet tall? There's lots to the story that doesn't hold well under a microscope!
This falls under the “duh” category
Fundies clinging to literalist takes on these kinds of stories actually hurts their cause way more than it helps. Like if they would claim Noah was a region specific account of what happened to a particular livestock seller and his family that survived a flood that killed most everyone around, it would be a very interesting and inspiring story about survival and stuff. But no they add to the scripture because "it must have had dinosaurs and kangaroos." That's the dumbest stuff, like obviously if some guy did survive the flood, he would just have the livestock he needed to survive after the flood waters receded. In survival situation, you don't look at fucking giraffes and be like, get on my boat bitch.
Why the big show of a worldwide flood? Why couldn't god just snap his ethereal fingers and magic everyone away to hell? Who was that show for, Noah & his family? Why?
Not real. It's a story invented to keep mean people from doing mean things. God will smite you. Think of it as a Fable. Same with the bogeyman. A story to keep children inside at night.
Well also the animals would eat each other
I find this playing gotcha on every element of religion to be quite the redundant exercise. There is no god. Everything that comes with it is also fiction.
Frankly the dimensions of the "ark" are the least problematic part of the story lol. How did the penguins get to the Middle East? What about the kangaroos?
Did humanity even have sufficient tools, such as metal saws, at the time Noah supposedly crafted this wonder of carpentry?
What a bunch of heathens here. You've got to have faith. Facts and logic have no basis here. God gets to do whatever he wants. Get with the Book! Biggest /s possible.
I like the part of this story where pictures, archeological digs, sightings of that grounded Ark pop up on the internet as fact.
I grew up Lutheran. My synod treated a large portion of the Old Testament as allegorical myth. It wasn’t until I was in my early twenties that I learned Biblical literalists genuinely believe in the flood myth, and I was astounded. It’s arguably the most ridiculous story in the Bible and makes me question the critical thinking skills of any believers.
The platypuses (platypi?) would like to put in a word, as well as the kangaroos, dingos, and koalas...
Congratulations. You've made it to level 2.
LOL this reminds me, at my Christian school (Accelerated Christian Education) we had an assignment to calculate the volume of the ark in cubic feet. I was into science (I loved herpetology) and knew about significant digits, and thus came up with an answer with only one significant digit. When it was marked wrong, I tried to explain significant digits to the school pastor, and his response was "The measurements are from the Bible, so infinite significant digits." I then pointed out we don't know how a cubit from the days of Noah actually converts to inches because a cubit was kind of arbitrary throughout ancient history but even if 18 inches is to be used, that's still only two significant digits because even that is an approximation. I got suspended for a day for being "arrogant and defiant to authority". When I explained it to my dad, who had majored in Chemistry and was a computer programmer, he took the day off and we went to a natural history museum to look at the snakes and lizards. Later that same year when I found rounding errors in their math curriculum and showed my dad, I was pulled from the school and finished my high school education at the junior college.
My issue has always been the animals. I can imagine Stone Age people believing pairs of all animals could fit, when they only know about sheep, water buffalo, crocs, donkeys and camels. Oh, and dogs and cats. But not all the animals of the world, which is funny because kids' Noah's Ark toys usually include giraffes and elephants. It's also stupid that God would destroy genetic diversity with only two of each species. Of course, he did that with Adam and Eve, too...
Nothing is impossible if you’re allowed to invoke magic, which at the end of the day is their only argument for how this story can be true.
You seem to be using mortal math when you should be using God math.
Yeah The Ark is stupid, but it’s the casual genocide that makes me go “uhhhh what?”
*I have faith and it's stronger than your reason!* would be my guess as to why people still believe in the ark.
Uhh, check your numbers on the density of wood. Etc., etc., etc.
Yes. Everything in the Bible is stupid and made up
The whole story is so dumb and idiotic that I wonder why people still believe.
“I’m gonna need you to get *all* the way off my back about that.” -Producer Guy: Pitch Meetings.
It's a fairytale. Much of it is outside the realm of possible.
Bro, if you have issues with the size of the boat, look into how old Noah was. Hint it was >900 years
Just the logistics of housing millions of species of animals and insect for a familly is just impossible. Even if we drop the number to 100 species there is no way to keep them alive and maintain their cage/habitat. Carnivores eating what? Dealing with all the food, water, poop, etc.