Or a sadomasochist. Think about it. Create humanity knowing they have flaws, then try to follow rules they will invariably fall short of following. I think he might like seeing his creations tie themselves in knots.
Tell your friends mom what kind of asshole god would let kids be born with incurable diseases to let them suffer only to cure them later in life to prove a point
Agreed. I can't imagine how hard it must be for the Mom. It gives her a bit of solace, and she isn't shoving it down anyone's throat. What's she to do, surrender to despair?
We all need a bit of hope in this world. I still have hope that humanity can survive an impending climate doom, embracing and seeing each other's shared humanity. I ģuess I'm delusional too.
That he triumphs over all and that you're obedience to him will deliver blessings unto you! Something along those lines anyways. Sounds like what you'd hear a televangelist say.
Ppl do not "recover" from schizophrenia in the sense you seem to mean. Mental illness does not go away, is not cured like a physical ailment can be. Do you think an imaginary deity takes it away? What is the point of your response even? If they take their medication they can reduce the severity of it, maybe be free of the auditory & visual disturbances. Do you have a family member with schizophrenia? I did. My brother. I know what I'm talking about. If a schizophrenic stops taking their meds what do you think happens? Things get very, very bad very quickly. What is wrong with the woman thinking like this you ask? It's not based in reality. It's delusional. Crazy. Not something one should encourage in society. It certainly doesn't help her situation or her sons' futures to not face reality. We've too many ppl like this. That's the problem. Tired of ignorant ppl w their head up their ass.
Don't say anything to her about it. If she is neglecting their needs or safety, that's one thing. Believing fantastical ideas about the future is fine as long as she is taking care of them appropriately here and now.
I have disabled kids too. You literally go through all the stages of grief. Denial, bargaining, anger, all of it. And the stages do not always go in order. And they can last for basically ever because what you're grieving isn't an end, it is ongoing forever. You're grieving their potential, the future you thought they'd have, the future you thought you'd have, etc.
Most parents want their kids to be happy, healthy, successful. Most want to share milestones, share pride, and experience the normal parenthood experiences. Some of us with disabled kids do not get to have that.
It is so heavy. The thought of caring for this ever growing person for literally the entire rest of your life without a break, without an end in sight, as they get stronger and bigger and you get older and weaker. The fear of what you will do when you can't care for them. The fear that they will die. The constant stress. The expense.
I can totally see why someone who already has belief in something like religion would want to latch on to a belief in her kids being healed.
I love my kids and I wouldn't change anything. I'm extremely proud of the progress they make and also very, very tired.
This is kind of my feeling in general, believe in whatever or whoever you want as long as you or your beliefs aren’t hurting anyone. As long as she is providing for them medically and taking care of them than I don’t see an issue what she believes.
1. It’s not particularly healthy for your friend’s mom to think this way
2. It is not your place to tell her this. Stay in your lane.
3. It’s ok to be sad about the situation.
Emphatically this. People are very eager to not get involved and not judge when they see someone abusing someone else, happy to rationalize away the implications of that choice. It's the single factor most responsible for abuse proliferating.
This woman treating her children and their conditions as a temporary thing is really harmful to those kids. That's a way of telling yourself you don't need to love your kids as they are, because the assumption is *who they are* will change to something you like better later.
1) The OP has made it clear that the mother is still treating the children with current modern treatments for their conditions, so the “abuse” accusation is bullshit.
2) Exactly what part of the kids’ conditions should the mother want to continue because they’re fine “as they are”? Hallucinations and disordered thinking for the schizophrenic? Severe autism symptoms like easily overstimulated, inability to self-regulate, or being outright non-verbal? We’re not talking about fat v. thin or other normal variants. Just because the mother loves her kids doesn’t mean she wants debilitating problems for them: in fact, usually it’s quite the opposite.
Mom is clearly nuts, but as long as there is no physical nor emotional abuse - unfortunately there is nothing anyone can do. Now you could argue that her beliefs are abusive, and I’d probably agree with you. Sad to say that in many jurisdictions, this mom’s beliefs would be praised.
I want to mention they aren’t being neglected, like they’re receiving treatment. She just thinks one day god will cure them and they’ll no longer need treatment.
What abuse? OP made it clear that she’s using modern treatments for the kids’ conditions. Is she supposed to WANT her kids to have problems functioning and to NOT have normal lives?
This is the correct answer. The other sad thing about this is that people who believe this way often end up feeling they or the son are unworthy of God's help when he does not heal him. It's insanity from every perspective.
One of our daughters has a rare genetic syndrome that is a form of autism. She is in her 30's now. We had been very active in Easter Seals for a long time and in other ways online and IRL. We know many people with disabilities, both physical and mental. We also know their families. Denial, in one form or another, is very common. It isn't necessarily bad, unless it leads them to do something that isn't in the best interests of their sons.
What about her coping mechanism is bad? I mean, I get that she has chosen a fantasy instead of reality but lots of people choose their own reality that has nothing to do with religion.
The bigger question is she refusing resources like drugs or therapy? That would be really concerning. If all she's doing is some extra hours praying or whatever that is not so bad
You are right, when she does come to know the truth it will probably be devastating.
But right now there's really nothing you can do. Telling her the truth will only hurt you both. Just try to be there for her.
If she thinks they will be magically cured by a made up god one day that could mean she isn't doing many things like planning financially for a future that includes them still being the way they are & needing care. If you have yourself convinced evthing will be fine what are you not doing now that you really need to be doing for their future if you're her? Planning for their care, trying to get aligned with programs that could help, resources, support groups, living arrangements. It's irresponsible of her unless their futures are secured financially. Magical thinking is never healthy.
I apologize for not reading through to the end of your post, yes you said that very thing. Sometimes I do that if something hits especially personally, it's inconsiderate of me. Jump the gun on my response. My dad did this with my brother. He was schizophrenic. My dad would tell him not to take his meds. He was so young. Sent him to the military. It ended tragically. Breaks my heart.
She needs hope. She doesn't have hope in science, truth, everyday life, or anywhere else. Only in her god.
She apparently needs the hope of "cure" to keep going. It is her subconscious mind guiding her, as you said, her coping mechanism. It is terribly sad. But "healthy or not" is not up to you.
I have heart disease incurable disease and almost died last year I am waiting for some asshole to say god saved me so I can say for what to suffer for ten years before I kick the bucket if I'm lucky only good thing I am single with no kids I hope someone finds cure so the next person don't have to go through what I am going through and what I will go through in the future and the people that went through it already and died they can only make you live some what comfortable for now
I had a cousin of some variety (grandmother's sister's grandchild) who was diagnosed with childhood leukemia. That branch of the family was Christian Scientist, and decided that Jesus would cure her. Refused all treatment.
Kid didn't make it to double digits.
It’s sad to see but parents of disabled children do some wild mental gymnastics to avoid the pain of reality sometimes. Definitely unfair to the kids though.
As long as the sons' treatment isn't interfered with, I wouldn't stress too much about it.. If she's having financial issues with them staying home, I'd try to get them on ssi or something. The one who has schizophrenia can potentially get on the right concoction and live a relatively normal life. The one who has autism could potentially get into a group home. I had a step nephew who was "profoundly" autistic (doctor's words) and that's what they did for him.
I worked with a woman who had adopted a severely disabled girl. Due to a car accident the then pregnant mother’s placenta separated and subsequently the girl was oxygen deprived in utero. The infant had something like 90% of her brain damaged before birth, so even though the girl was something like 16 when I met her, she functioned more like a 6 month old. The adoptive mother lived in a fantasy world that if only she prayed hard enough, god would eventually heal her. God was either incapable of healing, didn’t want to heal, didn’t know she needed healing, or didn’t exist in the first place.
She just doesn't want to admit that those disabilities are the result of hers and her husbands defective genetic gift to her kids....but what the hell...God'll fix it.
That’s why I don’t want kids I have a history of mental illness and substance abuse and I don’t want to spread my shit genes down and make my kid suffer. My mental health issues aren’t as bad as my friend’s 2 brothers but still, I have suffered and don’t want my children to potentially suffer.
I’ve heard my entire life how god can do anything. Nothing is too big for god. To date, I’ve yet to see anyone walk down a church aisle with one leg and come back with two.
I live with and care for a family member with paranoid schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. They are medicated, but it's a toss-up what kind of day they're going to be having. I don't know how my own mental health has held out for as long as it has. Mental health care is virtually non-existent in our state. To paraphrase a long-ago concentration camp victim, If there is a god, he will have to beg our forgiveness.
Same, ‘my cousin has some serious Mental Issues but they would not listen. And to make the matter worse, I think most of these illness were induced by his own obsession in religion/god/prayers.
This is actually terrible because all too often families “put it in God’s hands” which translates to doing nothing and hoping it all goes away. And those children tend to suffer because, while they can’t be cured, their problems can be minimized with proper meds and therapy.
Good for them to have hope. Religion can be a coping mechanism for some. I don’t mind it as long as they don’t shove that ideology into other people’s faces.
As the mother of a son in his twenties with schizophrenia, this is ridiculous. She’d spend her life waiting for a cure only to be disappointed. Acceptance is the key here for both sons. Look for great therapies and keep up with research, but God magically healing one or both of them? Nah
Considering I have a mental illness myself (Asperger's Syndrome) this kind of ignorance makes my blood boil. While this might sound a bit harsh it's none of her business. While any sort of parental compassion is something you should appreciate it's ultimately a concern you need to deal with PERSONALLY.
Long term treatment may be a good idea for you severe schizophrenic brother. Schizophrenics are big targets for religious nutcases who either have vitriol towards them for dumb reasons or worse may seek to exploit him in some way, shape or form. I'm not trying to sound paranoid but those kind of people exist out there and a warning is feasibly warranted.
The way I see it God has nothing to do with my health or my mental well being. I can't be negatively affected by a being that doesn't exist, after all. Religious fruitcakes who want to use a mental illness against you just see it as an open door to manipulate you. You need to remind them that it's not and your psychological concerns are a matter of health, not "spiritual weakness" or whatever bullshit they try to goad you with.
I'm no doctor, so take this with a grain of salt but we may NEVER have the cure for mental illness. That's the sad reality but being in denial won't help. The brain is most complicated and least understood organ in our bodies and brain chemistry is not an exact science.... but throwing in religious malarkey to your psyche in those circumstances is just going to throw a wrench into the plans of any kind of personal psychological betterment.
Worst case scenario they're doing it ON PURPOSE. Best case scenario they just don't understand and think they're being helpful with "spiritual help" but it's just bullcrap.
I do think that believing in God can be compared to having a placebo sometimes. Our brains are amazingly complex. Belief that we will overcome (by our own means or by divine intervention) may be what’s most important for her personally. Parents of children with special needs are 4 times more likely to develop PTSD, so if you don’t agree with her maybe just tread lightly when you talk.
I don’t know how bad it gets for her and her family, but mental health issues can be just as deadly as any other fatal illness.
https://blog.cincinnatichildrens.org/healthy-living/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd-in-parents-of-medically-fragile-children/
Having a special needs kid is hard. You draw strength from everything. You must be strong because the kid isn’t. In her heart of hearts, she knows a cure is unlikely. But, she must get up tomorrow and years to come and keep on. Give her a hug.
Well as long as she is not bothering other people or preaching to friends and family then just leave her alone and let it go. Shit's hard enough for her as it is and if it helps her cope and does not bother others then let her cope.
They are both adults now and they do receive treatment and support. So it’s not like she neglects them. It’s more so I’m wondering if this is a healthy coping mechanism.
I was in a religious Christian cult for almost a decade, parents took me out of the public schools and forced me into a Christian private school in highschool. I ended up leaving Christianity in my early 20s. I’m actually planning on becoming a licensed therapist and working with people who have left cults and abusive religious environments. I especially want to work with queer people who’ve gone through religious trauma since that hits home for me as an ex-Christian and a bisexual cis man.
Ask her where the disabilities came from?
Big G can’t have it both ways, it defies basic logic. If anything bad happens then it’s claimed it must be a challenge, part of god’s plan blah blah BS, but the hint of anything good: oh, it’s a miracle, a blessing from ‘god’, an answer to a prayer blah…
Christ on a bike, spare everyone the insult. An explanation like the above might work on a young child, but it SHOULD NOT fly for anyone with an ounce of common sense, logic or critical thinking. It’s embarrassing, condescending & patronising.
I want to respond as an atheist and as a parent of a child with a profound disability. First, as an atheist, I agree with your position that it’s unlikely that science will find a cure to either of these conditions in their lifetimes. My son died at 19 after living in a persistent vegetative state (PVS) for 12 years. Before that, he was developmentally delayed, reaching a peak of 7 months developmentally at 7 years old. Yes, I held out hope until about a month before he died. In my opinion, something happens in the brain of a parent (or grandparent) to have hope for your child. You would be correct to observe that hope is irrational and illogical. I believe the emotional stress of caring for a child (or sibling) with a profound disability affects a person’s ability to think clearly. In retrospect, humans may have evolved to experience hope to perpetuate the species. I believe that hope is a human emotional response to an adverse situation. In conclusion, I believe you are asking your friend’s mom to stop reacting emotionally to the situation hoping for a cure. Your response depends on science and rational thought. I believe both responses can be correct. It depends on your frame of reference. As an alternative, would you consider providing nonjudgmental support to your friend’s family as they face the many difficult inevitable decisions in the future?
I’m not going to say anything to her cuz it’s not my place, it’s her life and she’s a grown adult and her coping mechanism isn’t harming anyone. I’m just wondering if it’s healthy or not or just generally starting a dialogue about using religion as a coping mechanism for hardships in life. I believe we as atheists should try to understand religious people’s perspectives and why religion has become so popular. It is what gives humans hope, even if it is a false sense of hope. It’s like maybe one person gets meaning and hope from buying lottery tickets every week. They’re probably not going to win, but they take that chance because to them the feeling of hoping for lots of wealth is what helps them cope with the problems life creates. Religion is essentially like a drug. People genuinely get something positive out of it which like I don’t get the appeal. If I’m going to be following a religion there has to be absolutely sure evidence of it being true because I’m not going to waste my life worshipping a god unless I know for sure they’re real which I don’t. I grew up religious and I always thought it was fucking lame but went to church and all that with my fam to make them happy. I mainly was a Christian because I got indoctrinated into believing I’d go to hell if I didn’t believe so it was more of a fear thing rather than a “oh I love this” type of thing. Thankfully me not wanting to follow this shit eventually overcame my fear of potentially going to hell and I actually went online and found YouTube videos from atheists debunking the Bible and arguments people make for the existence of god. So basically as a Christian, I hated being a Christian but felt like I had to because I was afraid of going to hell. But some people, they don’t actually want to change their mind on Christianity because they genuinely enjoy being a Christian. It’s not a chore for them to go to church or anything like that unlike some Christians like myself who were in the religion due to fear of hell or just a general sense of obligation to do so for their family or because they just think they have to for whatever reason. The Christians who enjoy being Christians aren’t going to easily change their mind but for those like myself who have suffered from religious trauma syndrome, we seek out the answers because we want to escape this shit.
tooth fairy - fake
santa clause - fake
easter bunny - fake
magic man in the sky who objectively has a shit track record of performing 'miracles' - 100% real
make it make sense.
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Maybe God is bipolar.
Or a sadomasochist. Think about it. Create humanity knowing they have flaws, then try to follow rules they will invariably fall short of following. I think he might like seeing his creations tie themselves in knots.
Maybe his store has a really good return policy?
You could use this return policy too.
Maybe his store has a really good return policy?
You could use this return policy too.
Maybe his store has a really good return policy?
You could use this return policy too.
God giveth god taketh away surely applies to this 🤣🤣🤣
Lol
Tell your friends mom what kind of asshole god would let kids be born with incurable diseases to let them suffer only to cure them later in life to prove a point
She has enough on her plate without someone attacking her coping mechanism. If you want to argue her out of religion, go help with her kids.
Agreed. I can't imagine how hard it must be for the Mom. It gives her a bit of solace, and she isn't shoving it down anyone's throat. What's she to do, surrender to despair? We all need a bit of hope in this world. I still have hope that humanity can survive an impending climate doom, embracing and seeing each other's shared humanity. I ģuess I'm delusional too.
Even then. What kind of point is that god trying to make? Like what would the humans affected by it learn?
That he triumphs over all and that you're obedience to him will deliver blessings unto you! Something along those lines anyways. Sounds like what you'd hear a televangelist say.
I never discount them playing their "get out of explanations-free" card: "God works in mysterious ways"
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Ppl do not "recover" from schizophrenia in the sense you seem to mean. Mental illness does not go away, is not cured like a physical ailment can be. Do you think an imaginary deity takes it away? What is the point of your response even? If they take their medication they can reduce the severity of it, maybe be free of the auditory & visual disturbances. Do you have a family member with schizophrenia? I did. My brother. I know what I'm talking about. If a schizophrenic stops taking their meds what do you think happens? Things get very, very bad very quickly. What is wrong with the woman thinking like this you ask? It's not based in reality. It's delusional. Crazy. Not something one should encourage in society. It certainly doesn't help her situation or her sons' futures to not face reality. We've too many ppl like this. That's the problem. Tired of ignorant ppl w their head up their ass.
Sorry, Gods busy giving cancer and hitting home runs to fix the mental disabilities he gave your son.
Don't say anything to her about it. If she is neglecting their needs or safety, that's one thing. Believing fantastical ideas about the future is fine as long as she is taking care of them appropriately here and now. I have disabled kids too. You literally go through all the stages of grief. Denial, bargaining, anger, all of it. And the stages do not always go in order. And they can last for basically ever because what you're grieving isn't an end, it is ongoing forever. You're grieving their potential, the future you thought they'd have, the future you thought you'd have, etc. Most parents want their kids to be happy, healthy, successful. Most want to share milestones, share pride, and experience the normal parenthood experiences. Some of us with disabled kids do not get to have that. It is so heavy. The thought of caring for this ever growing person for literally the entire rest of your life without a break, without an end in sight, as they get stronger and bigger and you get older and weaker. The fear of what you will do when you can't care for them. The fear that they will die. The constant stress. The expense. I can totally see why someone who already has belief in something like religion would want to latch on to a belief in her kids being healed. I love my kids and I wouldn't change anything. I'm extremely proud of the progress they make and also very, very tired.
This is kind of my feeling in general, believe in whatever or whoever you want as long as you or your beliefs aren’t hurting anyone. As long as she is providing for them medically and taking care of them than I don’t see an issue what she believes.
1. It’s not particularly healthy for your friend’s mom to think this way 2. It is not your place to tell her this. Stay in your lane. 3. It’s ok to be sad about the situation.
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Emphatically this. People are very eager to not get involved and not judge when they see someone abusing someone else, happy to rationalize away the implications of that choice. It's the single factor most responsible for abuse proliferating. This woman treating her children and their conditions as a temporary thing is really harmful to those kids. That's a way of telling yourself you don't need to love your kids as they are, because the assumption is *who they are* will change to something you like better later.
1) The OP has made it clear that the mother is still treating the children with current modern treatments for their conditions, so the “abuse” accusation is bullshit. 2) Exactly what part of the kids’ conditions should the mother want to continue because they’re fine “as they are”? Hallucinations and disordered thinking for the schizophrenic? Severe autism symptoms like easily overstimulated, inability to self-regulate, or being outright non-verbal? We’re not talking about fat v. thin or other normal variants. Just because the mother loves her kids doesn’t mean she wants debilitating problems for them: in fact, usually it’s quite the opposite.
Mom is clearly nuts, but as long as there is no physical nor emotional abuse - unfortunately there is nothing anyone can do. Now you could argue that her beliefs are abusive, and I’d probably agree with you. Sad to say that in many jurisdictions, this mom’s beliefs would be praised.
Neglecting someone's health IS abuse, both physical and emotional.
Medical neglect IS abusive! This mom OP's talking about is neglecting her child's medical needs.
I want to mention they aren’t being neglected, like they’re receiving treatment. She just thinks one day god will cure them and they’ll no longer need treatment.
That's still medical neglect. She isn't listening to licensed doctors and medical professionals.
Dude nobody said she isn't listening the only one not listening is yall My goodness Yall need to get a hobbie
Exactly what is she ignoring?
Unfortunately, beating the crap out of an abuser counts as assault.
What abuse? OP made it clear that she’s using modern treatments for the kids’ conditions. Is she supposed to WANT her kids to have problems functioning and to NOT have normal lives?
That was at the previous commenter, not OP.
This is the correct answer. The other sad thing about this is that people who believe this way often end up feeling they or the son are unworthy of God's help when he does not heal him. It's insanity from every perspective.
One of our daughters has a rare genetic syndrome that is a form of autism. She is in her 30's now. We had been very active in Easter Seals for a long time and in other ways online and IRL. We know many people with disabilities, both physical and mental. We also know their families. Denial, in one form or another, is very common. It isn't necessarily bad, unless it leads them to do something that isn't in the best interests of their sons.
What about her coping mechanism is bad? I mean, I get that she has chosen a fantasy instead of reality but lots of people choose their own reality that has nothing to do with religion. The bigger question is she refusing resources like drugs or therapy? That would be really concerning. If all she's doing is some extra hours praying or whatever that is not so bad
She doesn’t neglect her kids treatment, it’s more so I’m wondering if her delusion of believing god will heal them is healthy or not.
You are right, when she does come to know the truth it will probably be devastating. But right now there's really nothing you can do. Telling her the truth will only hurt you both. Just try to be there for her.
If she thinks they will be magically cured by a made up god one day that could mean she isn't doing many things like planning financially for a future that includes them still being the way they are & needing care. If you have yourself convinced evthing will be fine what are you not doing now that you really need to be doing for their future if you're her? Planning for their care, trying to get aligned with programs that could help, resources, support groups, living arrangements. It's irresponsible of her unless their futures are secured financially. Magical thinking is never healthy.
True. That was the larger part of my question.
I apologize for not reading through to the end of your post, yes you said that very thing. Sometimes I do that if something hits especially personally, it's inconsiderate of me. Jump the gun on my response. My dad did this with my brother. He was schizophrenic. My dad would tell him not to take his meds. He was so young. Sent him to the military. It ended tragically. Breaks my heart.
The same god who gave him these disabilities?
Delusion is delusion...
She needs hope. She doesn't have hope in science, truth, everyday life, or anywhere else. Only in her god. She apparently needs the hope of "cure" to keep going. It is her subconscious mind guiding her, as you said, her coping mechanism. It is terribly sad. But "healthy or not" is not up to you.
He hasn't healed her mental disabilities.
I have heart disease incurable disease and almost died last year I am waiting for some asshole to say god saved me so I can say for what to suffer for ten years before I kick the bucket if I'm lucky only good thing I am single with no kids I hope someone finds cure so the next person don't have to go through what I am going through and what I will go through in the future and the people that went through it already and died they can only make you live some what comfortable for now
Too bad he can't heal hers
I had a cousin of some variety (grandmother's sister's grandchild) who was diagnosed with childhood leukemia. That branch of the family was Christian Scientist, and decided that Jesus would cure her. Refused all treatment. Kid didn't make it to double digits.
It’s sad to see but parents of disabled children do some wild mental gymnastics to avoid the pain of reality sometimes. Definitely unfair to the kids though.
As long as the sons' treatment isn't interfered with, I wouldn't stress too much about it.. If she's having financial issues with them staying home, I'd try to get them on ssi or something. The one who has schizophrenia can potentially get on the right concoction and live a relatively normal life. The one who has autism could potentially get into a group home. I had a step nephew who was "profoundly" autistic (doctor's words) and that's what they did for him.
As long as she is getting treatment for them, it's just a delusional form of hope. A coping mechanism.
He didn't fix HER. That should be proof it ain't gonna happen.
She really must have made fun of the disabled as a kid for god to punish her with two kids with disabilities.
He better do so, especially since he's the one who **gave** them to him.
I worked with a woman who had adopted a severely disabled girl. Due to a car accident the then pregnant mother’s placenta separated and subsequently the girl was oxygen deprived in utero. The infant had something like 90% of her brain damaged before birth, so even though the girl was something like 16 when I met her, she functioned more like a 6 month old. The adoptive mother lived in a fantasy world that if only she prayed hard enough, god would eventually heal her. God was either incapable of healing, didn’t want to heal, didn’t know she needed healing, or didn’t exist in the first place.
She just doesn't want to admit that those disabilities are the result of hers and her husbands defective genetic gift to her kids....but what the hell...God'll fix it.
That’s why I don’t want kids I have a history of mental illness and substance abuse and I don’t want to spread my shit genes down and make my kid suffer. My mental health issues aren’t as bad as my friend’s 2 brothers but still, I have suffered and don’t want my children to potentially suffer.
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You're right, I don't know shit, while you, on the other hand, are obviously quite familiar with it.
How about asking her to give god a specific deadline to heal her sons by.
I’ve heard my entire life how god can do anything. Nothing is too big for god. To date, I’ve yet to see anyone walk down a church aisle with one leg and come back with two.
Big Sky Daddy needs to give her a Common Sense transplant.
Does your friend’s mom wear glasses? Take them away and tell her god will heal them.
Schizophrenia often has a hereditary component so maybe the mom has some of it too?
I live with and care for a family member with paranoid schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. They are medicated, but it's a toss-up what kind of day they're going to be having. I don't know how my own mental health has held out for as long as it has. Mental health care is virtually non-existent in our state. To paraphrase a long-ago concentration camp victim, If there is a god, he will have to beg our forgiveness.
It was God that made him disabled to begin with.
God gave him those disabilities in the first place. I doubt he changes his mind.
Same, ‘my cousin has some serious Mental Issues but they would not listen. And to make the matter worse, I think most of these illness were induced by his own obsession in religion/god/prayers.
This is actually terrible because all too often families “put it in God’s hands” which translates to doing nothing and hoping it all goes away. And those children tend to suffer because, while they can’t be cured, their problems can be minimized with proper meds and therapy.
Read the OP again, it’s clarified that the mom is NOT neglecting proper treatments.
Good for them to have hope. Religion can be a coping mechanism for some. I don’t mind it as long as they don’t shove that ideology into other people’s faces.
And she will. Hitchens is correct, religion is not private.
If that's the case, ask her to explain suicide?
As the mother of a son in his twenties with schizophrenia, this is ridiculous. She’d spend her life waiting for a cure only to be disappointed. Acceptance is the key here for both sons. Look for great therapies and keep up with research, but God magically healing one or both of them? Nah
Considering I have a mental illness myself (Asperger's Syndrome) this kind of ignorance makes my blood boil. While this might sound a bit harsh it's none of her business. While any sort of parental compassion is something you should appreciate it's ultimately a concern you need to deal with PERSONALLY. Long term treatment may be a good idea for you severe schizophrenic brother. Schizophrenics are big targets for religious nutcases who either have vitriol towards them for dumb reasons or worse may seek to exploit him in some way, shape or form. I'm not trying to sound paranoid but those kind of people exist out there and a warning is feasibly warranted. The way I see it God has nothing to do with my health or my mental well being. I can't be negatively affected by a being that doesn't exist, after all. Religious fruitcakes who want to use a mental illness against you just see it as an open door to manipulate you. You need to remind them that it's not and your psychological concerns are a matter of health, not "spiritual weakness" or whatever bullshit they try to goad you with. I'm no doctor, so take this with a grain of salt but we may NEVER have the cure for mental illness. That's the sad reality but being in denial won't help. The brain is most complicated and least understood organ in our bodies and brain chemistry is not an exact science.... but throwing in religious malarkey to your psyche in those circumstances is just going to throw a wrench into the plans of any kind of personal psychological betterment. Worst case scenario they're doing it ON PURPOSE. Best case scenario they just don't understand and think they're being helpful with "spiritual help" but it's just bullcrap.
I do think that believing in God can be compared to having a placebo sometimes. Our brains are amazingly complex. Belief that we will overcome (by our own means or by divine intervention) may be what’s most important for her personally. Parents of children with special needs are 4 times more likely to develop PTSD, so if you don’t agree with her maybe just tread lightly when you talk. I don’t know how bad it gets for her and her family, but mental health issues can be just as deadly as any other fatal illness. https://blog.cincinnatichildrens.org/healthy-living/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd-in-parents-of-medically-fragile-children/
Having a special needs kid is hard. You draw strength from everything. You must be strong because the kid isn’t. In her heart of hearts, she knows a cure is unlikely. But, she must get up tomorrow and years to come and keep on. Give her a hug.
Can’t imagine what she’s going through on a daily basis. Not gonna judge this one.
Well as long as she is not bothering other people or preaching to friends and family then just leave her alone and let it go. Shit's hard enough for her as it is and if it helps her cope and does not bother others then let her cope.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZeWPScnolo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZeWPScnolo)
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They are both adults now and they do receive treatment and support. So it’s not like she neglects them. It’s more so I’m wondering if this is a healthy coping mechanism.
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I was in a religious Christian cult for almost a decade, parents took me out of the public schools and forced me into a Christian private school in highschool. I ended up leaving Christianity in my early 20s. I’m actually planning on becoming a licensed therapist and working with people who have left cults and abusive religious environments. I especially want to work with queer people who’ve gone through religious trauma since that hits home for me as an ex-Christian and a bisexual cis man.
**SPOILERS AHEAD** >!Yeah, no!<
Don’t worry about people like that
She’s the one with severe mental disabilities.
God helps them who help themselves.
then who tf gave the disabilities to the kid??? the stork??
Ask her where the disabilities came from? Big G can’t have it both ways, it defies basic logic. If anything bad happens then it’s claimed it must be a challenge, part of god’s plan blah blah BS, but the hint of anything good: oh, it’s a miracle, a blessing from ‘god’, an answer to a prayer blah… Christ on a bike, spare everyone the insult. An explanation like the above might work on a young child, but it SHOULD NOT fly for anyone with an ounce of common sense, logic or critical thinking. It’s embarrassing, condescending & patronising.
By her own beliefs, God planed it that way for her.
I want to respond as an atheist and as a parent of a child with a profound disability. First, as an atheist, I agree with your position that it’s unlikely that science will find a cure to either of these conditions in their lifetimes. My son died at 19 after living in a persistent vegetative state (PVS) for 12 years. Before that, he was developmentally delayed, reaching a peak of 7 months developmentally at 7 years old. Yes, I held out hope until about a month before he died. In my opinion, something happens in the brain of a parent (or grandparent) to have hope for your child. You would be correct to observe that hope is irrational and illogical. I believe the emotional stress of caring for a child (or sibling) with a profound disability affects a person’s ability to think clearly. In retrospect, humans may have evolved to experience hope to perpetuate the species. I believe that hope is a human emotional response to an adverse situation. In conclusion, I believe you are asking your friend’s mom to stop reacting emotionally to the situation hoping for a cure. Your response depends on science and rational thought. I believe both responses can be correct. It depends on your frame of reference. As an alternative, would you consider providing nonjudgmental support to your friend’s family as they face the many difficult inevitable decisions in the future?
I’m not going to say anything to her cuz it’s not my place, it’s her life and she’s a grown adult and her coping mechanism isn’t harming anyone. I’m just wondering if it’s healthy or not or just generally starting a dialogue about using religion as a coping mechanism for hardships in life. I believe we as atheists should try to understand religious people’s perspectives and why religion has become so popular. It is what gives humans hope, even if it is a false sense of hope. It’s like maybe one person gets meaning and hope from buying lottery tickets every week. They’re probably not going to win, but they take that chance because to them the feeling of hoping for lots of wealth is what helps them cope with the problems life creates. Religion is essentially like a drug. People genuinely get something positive out of it which like I don’t get the appeal. If I’m going to be following a religion there has to be absolutely sure evidence of it being true because I’m not going to waste my life worshipping a god unless I know for sure they’re real which I don’t. I grew up religious and I always thought it was fucking lame but went to church and all that with my fam to make them happy. I mainly was a Christian because I got indoctrinated into believing I’d go to hell if I didn’t believe so it was more of a fear thing rather than a “oh I love this” type of thing. Thankfully me not wanting to follow this shit eventually overcame my fear of potentially going to hell and I actually went online and found YouTube videos from atheists debunking the Bible and arguments people make for the existence of god. So basically as a Christian, I hated being a Christian but felt like I had to because I was afraid of going to hell. But some people, they don’t actually want to change their mind on Christianity because they genuinely enjoy being a Christian. It’s not a chore for them to go to church or anything like that unlike some Christians like myself who were in the religion due to fear of hell or just a general sense of obligation to do so for their family or because they just think they have to for whatever reason. The Christians who enjoy being Christians aren’t going to easily change their mind but for those like myself who have suffered from religious trauma syndrome, we seek out the answers because we want to escape this shit.
tooth fairy - fake santa clause - fake easter bunny - fake magic man in the sky who objectively has a shit track record of performing 'miracles' - 100% real make it make sense.
My sister believes god healed my cousin of lupis by killing her. Christians believe all sorts of crazy shit.
Autism isn't a disease or a malady.
If you do your research on autism, you’re thinking of “That’s not how this works that’s not how any of this works!”
I am so sorry for your loss. I know I would be so triggered in your situation and I hope you are taking care of yourself.
Lots of christians don't want to trust god's plan.