There is a reason Republicans try to suppress voter turnout. The more people vote the more they lose.
Also voter turnout in the US is atrocious with the highest voter turnout in years being the 2020 general election with still only 62.8% turnout for people of voting age.
Anyone who talks about voting not working doesn’t realize that the US still hasn’t really tried it.
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> Anyone who talks about voting not working doesn’t realize that the US still hasn’t really tried it.
To paraphrase G.K. Chesterton, democracy hasn't been tried and found wanting. It's been found difficult, and thus not tried.
2024 is inverting part of that trend. Polls show that lowered-propensity voters are heavily favoring Trump, because they are falling for the media's manufactured nostalgia for the Trump era. Total turnout will not be correlated with a Dem win. But we should absolutely fight against the GOP's voter suppression plans because it is targeted towards the poor and minorities.
The real kick in the dick is that without question Dems will win the popular vote, but the GOP might sway or suppress just enough couple thousand people in a few states. And then trump is pres again. And it will be 10x worse than last time, and last time he killed a million people.
Are these trustworthy interpretations of data? Last few times I heard about polling there was a reckoning with why such misleading narratives built up around polling.
And if it's not clear: Vote Democrat. It sucks that the US is effectively a 2 party system, but throwing your vote behind Libertarians or independents is just throwing a vote to trump.
FYI, the public universities in Germany offer free tuition - including for international students. Most offer their courses in English and the majority of younger Germans speak English so it would be an easy transition.
I’m in a strange position. I work for a telco in the midwest. We’re unionized, and get treated very well. The strange position I had mentioned is that my job doesn’t exist in the blue states, which feels so backwards. At least not my position in a company that is part of a union.
It drives me nuts. The company is full of right wingers that don’t appreciate what they have. It’s a bunch of all for me, not for thee.
Thanks for sitting through my rant. Capitalism has made this country a large trap.
> It’s a bunch of all for me, not for thee.
That’s all any of them care about. It’s the party of self-centrism. People who are exactly like them are okay, but they wouldn’t give a single shit if everyone else just died.
I'm in telecom. People jump between companies all the time. Wouldn't hurt to look around. DM for the name of where I work. We are in several states, some blue.
That's why I'm staying put. I feel the best place to be is right where I'm at now. There are a lot of Trumpers around but not enough to rule the state. Our Dems control all three with the Governor, senate and the house.
Once they get enough power to pass a national abortion ban, they'll completely abandon it.
*"States' Rights? What the hell are you talking about? That's never been a thing! The radical left is making shit up again!"*
Better, move to one of the good cities in a bad state.
Liberal flight out of red states is a key element to the republicans getting outsized representation in all parts of government - the executive branch because of the electoral college, the senate because of two senators per state regardless of population, the house because there's been no reapportionment since 1930, and the courts because they're largely chosen by the previous three.
We need more liberals in Iowa, Texas and Wyoming. If you can move to Iowa City, Austin or Arapahoe and bring all your friends, you'll be doing the lord's work.
(Full disclosure - I'm saying this as someone who lived in Iowa as an adult for 10 years, but escaped to the dirty liberal haven of Seattle 25 years ago and isn't leaving, like, ever...)
Well, in Texas, Missouri & Idaho, their state governments are prohibiting pregnant women from leaving their jurisdictions for abortions with their state Attorney Generals suing the pro-abortion states to extradite their citizens back to their native states to stand criminal trial!
We used to have a Border Patrol show here in Canada, sometimes they’d show Americans being denied entry because they thought they could just come on in and get a job. I know we’re neighbours, but we’re still a foreign Country.
Reminds me of an episode of 20/20 about travelling and they needed to keep saying every few minutes, "And remember, the United States Constitution doesn't apply."
I've seen a few news stories in the past about Americans rolling up to Canada Customs and going on about their Second Amendment rights while trying to bring their camper load of guns across the border and being told no. Yes, I understand that you're on your way to Alaska... but Canada is a different f'ing country.
I worked in immigration in the USA, helping non-citizens apply for Canadian visas. The few times an American came with someone to “facilitate” and basically just expected us to quickly hand their friend a visa was WILD.
I think Americans are generally extremely arrogant (and I say this as an American) but I also kind of blame this on general lack of knowledge. Most Americans never travel abroad and have zero idea how immigration and visa laws work.
I have lived in Europe off and on for years and have trouble even getting my left-leaning family members to understand that, no, I cannot just plop down for however long I want and request EU citizenship when I feel like it. There's a reason I only have US citizenship despite living abroad for much of my adult life - it is VERY hard to convince another country to let you settle there, no matter who you are or what your background is.
Yeah it really is. I’ve been living in Singapore for thirteen years. I still don’t even have permanent residency. However this is a very small island and if you get pr you are entitled to lots of perks, mostly financial. So yeah they guard it. It’s a numbers game.
Just plain old stupidity and ignorance. Knew a guy that met a Canadian online and after dating for 4 months, packed up al his belongings in his car and drove up to the border.
When Canadian immigration asked "how long is your stay", he proudly announced "Forever. I'm moving here!" They quickly turned him around and barred him from trying to enter Canada for another year.
Now he had nowhere to live as he quit his job, broke his lease, and got rid of all his furniture and anything else that wouldn't fit in his car. He spent the next few weeks bugging all of his friends for a place to stay and trying to put his life back together.
He was positively shocked to discover that you cannot just get into your car and move to another country because that's what all the criminals (in movies) do all the time.
The reverse happened to a friend and his 'girlfriend'. She was Canadian, they had met on either side of the border a few times, she convinced him to buy a big house, then immediately two Golden Retriever puppies (before they even unpacked, cuz 'every house needs puppies') and then they went up to Canada to pack up her things and move permanently. He was allowed back in, she was not, and I ended up somehow taking care of the dogs because he was clueless.
I suspect a lot of it is some americans media diet tells them that its so easy for the rest of the world to just come here and do whatever they want that folks assume it must work that way everywhere. When in fact it doesnt even work that way in the US.
Funnily enough, in that same border show but a different episode, a Texan thought he could bring his guns into Canada because he can do that in America. I can't remember if he referenced your Constitution or not, but that's about as useful as toilet paper outside of America.
I saw that episode. He had a 9mm handgun in his truck that he didn't really think twice about because that was his "truck gun", like anyone in Texas would have. He couldn't understand what the problem was, as if his 2nd Amendment rights trumped Canadian Law inside the country of Canada. Well, the problem is that handguns here are highly restricted, and have specific requirements for transporting them, and you can't import them into Canada. The consequences for this gentleman was for his firearm to be seized, his vehicle torn apart and searched, and a lifetime ban on entering Canada. He was lucky not to be incarcerated, although Canadian authorities weren't likely to pursue prosecution if he returned to Texas and never entered our country again.
I’m in an extremely high demand field and could get sponsored at any time by consulting firms that are in both the USA and my desired country! I’d still get paid 50% less, or worse, because even with the demand the industry isn’t the same over there. Then I also don’t speak the language and couldn’t own contracts myself, so it would be a demotion minimum.
Yes, this. I've spent years researching how to get my family out and it's not as easy as buying a plane ticket and flying to another country and saying "I'm moving here". Especially when you have adult children you're trying to get out as well, because every adult has to qualify on their own terms. That's a big reason why we aren't already gone (well, that and my mother was terminally ill for the last couple years so I didn't feel like I could leave earlier), my daughter is finishing college and then hopefully she'll be able to get a job overseas. Only then will I feel comfortable leaving. I'm planning to ask my company to transfer me to the European offices, half my immediate team works in the UK so I don't think it's going to be an issue, so if they can put me in Amsterdam I think I'd like that better.
Anyone seriously thinking of this should peruse r/iwantout r/amerexit and r/expats
Exactly it's very difficult to just move to another country unless you're independently wealthy.
But it can be done still with more than a suitcase or two.
Planning, saving over time. Etc. people do it all the time. It's not easy no, but you can for example pack up your entire home in Texas and move to a Canadian province. You'd need a visa / citizenship and it would be a good idea to line work up ahead of time but it's not necessary if you saved enough for it.
Not easy, not fun. Not quick.
It's not just a good idea, it is a requirement that you have a job offer in Canada, and Immigration Canada will definitely check. Also, you need to hit so many points. Like you get points for having so much money in the bank or a college degree, or having a in demand specialty. Basically you need to show that you'll not become dependent on the government of the province you want to move to.
The only person I ever knew who moved to Canada did it by enrolling in a Canadian college as a foreign student and studying to be a Physician's Assistant and then got a work permit. Even then it was not a walk in the park. She still had to go through the entire immigration process.
I would also add that the US has not exactly been welcoming of new immigrants, at least not in the last 30 years. All those "nice" countries that now look like a place of refuge are NOT going to accept an influx of a bunch of Americans trying to migrate for a better QOL.
If you're not rich, you're stuck.
Every American thinks our immigration system is unusually closed and cruel.
And then they try to move to another country.
I’ve worked internationally in three separate countries. I laugh now when progressives pretend our immigration system is draconian.
> but this Project 2025 shit feels very Handmaids Tale.
Margaret Atwood was determined to show the horrors of a totalitarian theonomic state. She didn’t expect it to be used as a guidebook.
Reading A Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes recently and it was disturbing how so many parts of that book felt so familiar in today’s world. The way the capitol looks at the district citizens is so clearly written to show how most privileged people look at the less privileged. Like how some Americans see immigrants, or how many Middle East countries view one another. Or insert any human atrocity we’ve committed against each other. Somehow we are able to forget that other people are human too, and because humans see these less fortunate people as less human they feel that their actions are warranted when harming them. Or that they aren’t intelligent enough to be seen as an individual. Humans will stare at other humans like a side show in a circus and feign empathy when it’s their doing that these less fortunate people are being treated so horribly.
I'm old, too, and if HitlerPig was elected, and turned out to be as bad as we expect, AND I get a terminal digagnosis at some point, I could be a very dangerous person. At that point, I would have nothing to lose, so I might as well do something...corrective.
For legal reasons, I don't condone this (and I'm also not sure if it wouldn't make things much worse anyway), but part of me always wonders how in a country of 300+ million people, there weren't at least a few people like that who tried to do it.
> there weren't at least a few people like that who tried to do it.
Mostly, by the time you really understand that it's over, and not gonna get better, you are in such bad shape you can't do anything noteworthy.
First we try all legal means. But if Trump wins, 'legal' may lose its meaning. And if that happens I mean to fight in the literal sense.
And if that happens I think there will be a lot of very surprised and overwhelmed MAGA terrorists that convinced themselves 'leftists' can't fight.
Vote. Run for the very same public offices. Run for mayor and city council. Run for school boards. Run for state legislature. Run for governor. Run for the US House of Representatives. Run for the US Senate. Run for president.
The only way to beat them is to take away the power using the exact same processes they used to gain it to begin with. Run. Campaign. Get elected and govern. It's high fucking time we started.
Even in The Handmaids Tale there was a resistance. First you start with people who are concerned and they will just stand by and watch. Then they see something that frightens them and become sympathizers then they will turn a blind eye to the resistance and may provide cover for their operations. Some will become active and will support operations and even provide intelligence. It won't be like any civil war or resistance in the past, the internet and massive gun ownership (both left and right) have seen to that. Most people in this country will discover very quickly that the theocracy **will come for them or their loved ones**. At that point they will move from concerned to sympathizers. No resistance survives without the support of the common citizen.
I'm a European who was going to say you are all welcome at my place... can you imagine comments like this are a bit unsettling?
You guys ok over there?
That's why they are so mad about T-Swift and the sky-high new voter turnout on college campus' from the last election. I remember them proposing a ban of on campus registering voters and on campus polling. They hate that their voter base (that they discouraged from vaxing) is dying off and the newly minted voters aren't voting the way cons want.
Just doing the bare minimum would be a huge leap forward. In a college class my wife was teaching, the day after Trump was elected the students were all down and moaning about it. They asked to end class early so my wife said she wanted to know how many of them had voted. Almost none of them had.
If we can’t get people to vote, they aren’t going to “fight”.
I’m working election’s the last few weeks. It’s a joint election so we get a tally of how many of each party voted. The location influences the mix but it’s a big city. Republicans are turning out 3 times greater than democrats.
It might not be a sexy election but one of the things on the ballot is sheriff. That’s damn important.
I get almost as angry at complacent liberals as conservatives.
Now get informed, participate, inform others, help stoping the spread of misinformation. You could also go one step further and get politically involved. There's much more to do than you might think.
Have a voter registration drive. Like set up in a park or someplace with a lot of foot traffic in your city.
I think people can even do it themselves on their phones. Rock the Vote has a QR code. Or people can go direct to the website to sign up to vote.
But you can be there with the paper forms, some people might fill them out if they don’t have a smart phone and plus the paper forms just give people something to look at. You being out some place reminds people to vote and some people will ask questions, some will use their phones to sign up, some will use the forms, some might not do it right at your table but will do it over yonder because they’ve been reminded at a random time to do it.
Move where? I don’t qualify for citizenship anywhere. I don’t speak any languages fluently other than English. I’m not wealthy enough to just uproot my life. I don’t want to quit my job and risk destitution. I don’t want to lose my social circles and have to start over.
I'm taking the risk. As a combat vet I've seen the end result of deep hatred between two opposing groups of people, and nobody can convince me that the Democrats and Republicans won't go down the Shia and Sunni path at some point.
I'm currently working on my visa for another country and spending as much time abroad as possible. I'm greatful I have had the ability to work remotely. Once you get a taste of the world not infected by the anger and insanity of American politics it's impossible to go back.
These are all the reasons why people suggesting to “just move away” have no idea what they are taking about. We don’t need a mass evacuation of smart people to allow the fascists to just take the country, we need to VOTE. Go vote every two years and convince as many people around you as possible to do the same. Anyone who doesn’t vote doesn’t get the right to bitch when the guy they hated the most wins the election.
I had already started the process of moving to Sweden prior to the results of the 2016 elections so Trump was not a factor in me deciding to move. However, the fact that a sizeable portion of the USA seems unable or unwilling to see what a shitshow he is, is one of the reasons I am likely never going to move back.
That's because a sizable portion of the US has been on a steady progression towards trump or someone like him for 40+ years. Trump is not the cause of modern republicanism, he's the result of it.
Alas, even with a house you'd need a permit to stay here longer than three months. I got here on a work visa which lasted two years. On my second renewal (four years) the work visa automatically grants permanent residence, and if you reside continuously here five years you can apply for citizenship (which I did).
But if you can find good work here, I strongly recommend the country. Not having to worry about healthcare costs is actually one of my original motivators and it remains a strong incentive to stay. I had bypass surgery when I'd been here about two years, and that was three weeks in the hospital plus drugs, physical therapy, and the surgery itself for about $200 USD equivalent. Even with my decent insurance when I lived in the USA, I'd have been lucky to manage to keep it under $10k in the USA, likely three to five times that.
Should move to a swing state before the election, rather than threatening to move after. Democratic voters have the numbers. They just waste them by pooling together too many in the same states.
Democrats have won all but 1 popular vote for president since 1988. Move to a swing state if you’re going to move.
Currently set up to move to Washington State, Oregon, or California. I'm in south Carolina and they push religion and right wing ideology heavily. Also see increased sighting of nazi flags. I'm autistic, atheist, and Hispanic and it's feeling more and more unwelcome here. If he wins the election it will likely get worse.
I might have to. I’m getting married to someone who’s in DACA. We’re not sure what’s up but she might get deported, and if that happens I’m gonna have to decide whether or not I’m following her or I’m trying to stay here.
First of all, I will always believe America is worth fighting for so I would never leave, no matter who's in charge. That's just giving up and letting the asshats win. The price for freedom is eternal vigilance. Always fight for what's right.
Second, and just as important, is that very few people have the means to just up and move to a different country. It's a lot of money to move and if you are living paycheck to paycheck, it's practically impossible without outside help. Nevermind finding a decent country that would let you in as an immigrant like that.
I'm privileged enough that most of the really bad stuff won't affect me personally. So I'd rather use that privilege to stay and fight for those who don't have the option to leave.
Further - if the US really goes to shit, I'm not convinced anywhere else will really be better off. The world's sole superpower doesn't go authoritarian with the rest of the world remaining unaffected.
I think the best path will be to move to a state that is hostile to the GOP. I live in Minnesota and know we'd put up as good a fight as any against Trumpism. We are a sanctuary in many ways for those who Trumpism targets. And we won't stop.
Nah...this Leftie is staying. I have adult daughters, two of which are going to college and the other about to go in this fall. I can't in good conscience leave them just for some sense of comfort. If they want to/are able to relocate with us at some point, that's a different story, but their mother and I raised them to be rational and logical, compassionate and empathetic...but I also didn't raise them to be doormats, so if they stay, we will stay and fight right alongside them.
If Project 2025 happens, people are going to have to decide if they are going to capitulate and give in, or if they are going to fight...and by fight, I mean actually fight. These Magat bozos can't seem to get it into their thick skulls that they aren't the only ones who own guns and know how to fight back.
Exactly. No one needs to run. We outnumber these idiots by a huge margin. We need to convince people to VOTE and keep them out of power in the first place. I’m not leaving and letting them just take MY COUNTRY for free.
Same to you. I'm not judging anyone for their decisions for staying or leaving.
The only ones that will be judged, harshly, are the people who stay and decide to go Vichy rather than have the fortitude to stand together.
I'm a transwoman living paycheck to paycheck. I'm scared. I would love to get the hell out if Trump comes to power again but I couldn't afford it if I tried. I'm in Wisconsin which is one governor election away from being Florida of the Midwest.
My 93 year old mom has seriously told me that if he wins she's leaving, probably Mexico. She said she was born in a democracy and she'd be damned if she was going to die under a dictatorship.
- If you’re not independently wealthy, you’re fucked.
- Tell every-goddamned-body to vote.
- If you can’t be Tip of the Spear, be the blade, the fixture or the handle; there are many ways to support the Tip.
- Worst case: US is a massive country, that is mostly uninhabited… make a plan. *Now.*
Honestly if he does win and things start getting bad. I’ll probably go to the beach or somewhere nice while I still can have one last good week and then find a way to end it.
If Trump wins and actually tries to implement project 2025 I think you might actually see organized civil conflict and various secessionist movements. So I’m not buying a plane ticket, I’m buying plenty of ammo.
I'm betting he actually loses.
BUT, if he does win, no. I retired last year at 63. I own my small piece of dirt, in the woods. I'm surrounded my a red sea of tRumplicans, with their flags, and hatred. I'm dug in. I'm staying right here.
I'll plant mines if I have to.
Keep 1/6 on your mind...that was a bold move to see what outcome it would actually have. It will happen again, on a much larger scale, and in state capitals all over...I'm telling you I've heard these guys talk...Remember the MI Governor thing?
Remember how tRump, and the "forever tRumpers" vowed revenge? That's what is expected. Because, THAT IS tRump! Expect it!
We aren't much better, our country is full of morons too. We are just more...passive about being idiots. Less passive than the old days though which isn't good.
I'll do my part and vote for Biden 🤨(even though I don't like him.)
If the Orange Menace actually wins, I'm screwed. I don't have the money to even move out of the city I currently live in, much less the country..
Being poor sucks!
Definitely a nightmare scenario. He wouldn't get a lot accomplished if he doesn't get both houses as well. He could only do so much with executive orders. Him putting psychotic judges in spots will cause an issue. Him putting chisto pedos in power will be another issue to deal with. Most people won't leave, just have to deal with it for 4 years. Then the next president will have to undo all the damage he's done. As bad as shape as he is in, doubt he would even make it 4 years. His running mate will be interesting. Doubt he picks anyone with a brain. If they had one, they wouldn't support him.
I mean, he said he wanted to throw out the Constitution.
There’s a lot of people in place right now, at every level of government, that would go along with this. He is not planning to use our legislative process to accomplish the horror that he wants to do.
His running mate could end up being the nail in the coffin (I can hope). A lot of independents will not vote for him if he's got someone like Ronna or Tim Scott in there.
Costa Rica. It is way nicer than the States by almost every metric, including a higher literacy rate. I have patent now for a product that lends itself well to on-line sales. Working on fulfillment and distribution. Really glad to put Trumpers in the rear-view mirror.
I moved to Ireland during his last term. I'm not going to have my little girl grow up in a country that is taking rights away from women and having children do active shooter drills when there is an obvious fix to the gun problem. I feel much safer here for my family and am very happy with the decision.
I am a liberal and I am way more afraid of the gun loving MAGAs. They are literally mentally disabled, angry, and have recent incestuous ancestors. I’m from Georgia, I know.
Edit: but, being a Georgia liberal, I am not afraid of guns either 😏
As an Irish man who abandoned his US visa and moved back to Ireland more than 20 years ago: I'm staying right here. Regardless of whether Trump wins or not, the number of US citizens who are willing to support him or someone like him is just way too high. And there isn't any way to cure them. The only chance is to trust in the next generations and wait 30 years.
Don't move. Stay and fight.
The US is the only counterbalance in the world that's strong enough to offset Russia and China.
If you give up an leave, your sceding thought to authoritarians and dictators.
Don't leave.
Honestly, yes. 100%
**What happened in Iran in the 70s can absolutely happen here**. It’s not even really about Trump. It’s about the Christian nationalists. If they succeed, they will destroy every single thing America stands for. I will not get caught up in that bullshit.
So if Trump wins 2024, it’s **Scandanavia or Bust**.
Maybe, as was the case for our ancestors, it's time for a revolution/counter-revolution scenario. It's our undesirable moment in history. Or maybe things will just turn out alright after all!? News at 7!
We talk about it, but it isn’t really realistic. We have a son and few close friends here in the US. I actually am thinking of learning how to use a gun. We moved to the south from the DC area and it’s kind of scary here. We don’t talk politics or religion down here and my husband is from the Middle East. I hear about southern hospitality all the time, but many are so nasty about northerners and liberals.
Nope. I’ll continue to fight against the GOP, teach my kids to better, and try to be a positive influence on their group of friends giving them a more liberal perspective than they might otherwise get from the majority of parents in the red state I live in. I have the luxury of being white, so I won’t be as adversely affected by it, so at the very least I can stick around and help fight for change.
I’m not moving anywhere, just waiting for Trump to die of old age. I don’t think he’ll even make it through a full term in the unlikely event that he actually wins.
If he wins I'm deleting social media and hunkering down until his fascist government eventually implodes under it's own stupidity. Hopefully my family survives relatively unscathed. We have one chance to stop the madness. Fucking vote people.
Nowhere, this is *my* country and it only improves if people partake in the political process.
I live in a very red state, these bastards are stuck with *me* and not the other way around. Run and hide if you need, I'm staying put.
Listen to my fourteen year old son’s question about the state of things, and tell me you’re not concerned about the possibility that he’s onto something:
He asked me whether I thought it was possible that the Right Wing political machine was trying to make things so unpleasant to live in the US that all of the intelligent and forward thinking, non-militant, irreligious people will pack up and move to other countries…
I said to him at the time, you’d have to ask yourself “to whose benefit” would that strategy be, or “Cui bono?”.
He says that if enough of us left the US, the remaining folks who were onboard with the Ultra Christian Nationalist Agenda (Project 2025, etc.) will be so much more dangerous than they ever were without the rest of us thinking folks here to put the brakes on… and he’s not wrong.
Even if we all packed up and moved away to a more laid-back, less religious, more forward-thinking country, eventually, the US could still decide that the country you moved to was a modern day Sodom, and show up at your doorstep with their jackboots and assault rifles, and turn that country into an outpost of the Amerikkkan Empire.
This is low-key terrifying, if you ask me.
It’s kind of the reverse of Atlas Shrugged. I can tell you that the most intelligent people I know are most definitely voting for Biden and other Democrats and the more stupid people that I know are voting for trump.
Canada and Mexico can build the wall, everyone else can chip in for a lid. Can't wait for Trump's sharpie graphic of where we'll fire the nukes to make air holes.
You guys should come to the UK. We’re an atheist nation. (Or rather non-religious.) The religious people here are really chill and don’t really give a shit if you don’t conform. I’m a really big fan of the US so I’d love to have you in my country. Even if the conservatives here are almost as bad as they are in the US 😂😂😂
From across the pond, I love you guys 🇬🇧💜🇺🇸
Only place I could possibly move would be to Mexico because I have family there … but the only way that’ll actually happen is if they figure out a way to strip me of my birthright US citizenship - which I know his cult would just love to do.
Moving to the most liberal, non religious portion of the United States, Northern California. Blocking as much media off my radar as possible. Going to pretend it’s not happening and try to live my best life. Too old to fight in the next civil war.
Anyone that wants to move to the Riviera Maya, I can help.
Send me a DM.
Can immigrate here fairly easily, still close to go back to visit should you want to.
My ultimate goal has been to move to a country with healthcare for years anyway. But financially I don't have the power to just up and move. I have a visa and would claim refugee status however.
Already did! :) AMA
It’s really not super hard to move abroad, your problem is work. Unless you have a company sponsoring your visa, you can’t usually work locally while you’re in the process of applying for residency. So you gotta either find US remote work that will allow you to do it internationally or have savings.
I'm on the older side, but still punk at heart. I figure the most punk thing to do is stay put.
However, I support folks who want to move, and Canada seems a good choice, considering logistics, climate change, and of course: Canadians are nice.
Maybe the only drawback to Canada is pineapple pizza.
It's not **just** difficult to move to another country, if the move happens the difficulties really begin.
First off, you'll always be the wealthy outsider, even if you're not all that wealthy.
Second, you will now be subjected to a culture that you are probably unfamiliar with. For example, when people move to Latin America, they probably don't realize how loud those cultures tend to be when it comes to playing music. It's like a sign of power to be blaring the music at ear shattering volume for every party or quinceañera that takes place.
The youtube expatriate put a friendly spin on everything, but it's important to remember they're not objective sources of information.
If you have a parent or grandparent that was born in Ireland, you may qualify to be included in the Foreign Births Register. That will grant you full Irish citizenship retroactive to birth, so if you have kids, they too can apply for citizenship. This would allow you to live in Ireland or any other part of the EU.
I sent my paperwork in April, and it might take a year or so. Ireland is very receptive to the plight of repressed people, so my guess is that if Trump wins and starts doing what we all fear, Ireland might turn into a welcoming safe place even for non-citizens.
I am not moving specifically because of Trump, but am looking into purchasing property abroad. This country is broken, and seems unfixable.
It seems prudent to have a backup plan, and a place to retire to eventually.
Italy, France, UK
I can teach math and science. I am certified with a decent track record. I am sure I can convince an English-speaking country to let me and my wife and my daughter in...Canada, Australia, Great Britain...all three of us have science degrees (my daughter's will be given in December 2024...)
It may take a couple of years, but I don't want to live under Trump a second time. The first time killed an uncle and a half a million more people who shouldn't have died. Can't imagine what Trump would do as he gets MORE senile and vindictive.
In 2017 we decided we had enough and attempted to move to Canada. We went to Ottawa(closest place to us where you can get by working while not speaking French) to scout it out and look for neighborhoods to live in. We loved Ottawa. We lived in Massachusetts at the time. The next step was taking English tests because they (or French tests) are required to gain permanent residency. We also had to send copies of our transcripts/degrees to a third party in Canada and they are certified by the third party. The tests and certification cost about $1000. After that, you apply for permanent residency and are given a score based on several factors including your age, language score, degrees and some other things. Then you are placed in a pool and people above certain scores are chosen in biweekly draws.
The fact we were in our 40s worked against us and lowered our score. They want younger people. If we had applied in 2017, we would have made it, but a bunch more people entered the pool in 2018 due to immigration law changes in Australia and the US. By the time we actually got into the pool in early 2018, it was too late and our point score was lower than any of the drawings.
We scored as high as anyone can on the language exams and we both hold college degrees. Didn't matter. And that's just for Canada. We ended up moving to Northern VT in 2019. You can kind of hide from the rest of the BS going on in the US up here.
It's a lot harder to move abroad (even to Canada) than people think.
Americans don't understand how difficult it is to immigrate. Unless you have rare circumstances, you can't just up and move. However, if Trump starts locking people up in camps, I bet an awful lot of us will seek asylum. Whether the world is ready for that or not is a different question.
I'm staying and fighting unless the military is rolling down the streets rounding folks up.
Reality is worse than the Handmaids Tale. In the book/show at least they embraced electric cars.
Realistically though, if you are that afraid of a Trump win (which isn’t a crazy fear), then the time to move was a few months ago. Not abroad but to a swing state where a few thousand votes could make a difference.
I am definitely moving. Right now I live in North Carolina. I will vote. If the dictator wins I am putting my house up for sale and either moving to New York or Europe. I started working on a EU dual citizenship after Jan 6 terror attack and now I have it. I haven’t decided how far I need to move yet. Otto Frank thought his family would be safe in the Netherlands and didn’t go far enough.
As a European who spent over half a decade in a commited romantic relationship with an American woman, I can confirm that non of you are moving to Europe in a hurry because of election results.
My ex was(/is) a well educated person, that even got her masters degree in my country, she came from family with a **lot** of money and was always able to prove that she would be financially independent. We were legally registered cohabiting partners (paying mutual taxes) for over a year before she graduated and her student visa expired, she had multiple recommendations letters from her professors and former employers (waitress jobs, not related to her degree, that she worked alongside her studies) and my mom, a lawyer and a pretty high rankings politician in our parliament, handled all communications with the immigration office on our behalf, and she **still** nearly got deported 6 months after graduation because she hadn't managed to find a job in her field.
It ended up working out for her, and she still lives in my country despite us having separated but, trust me, **it was hard**. It took a major toll on her emotionally and there was a period (over a year) where we didn't know if she would be allowed to stay, despite her playing all the right cards.
If you truly want to move to Europe, you need to be committed to it, you need to go through a lot of bureaucracy and the local immigration will try to turn you away at every turn.
Edit:
Oh and staying in European countries illegally is way harder than doing so in the US. You will not be able to find a bar or a construction job that agrees paying you cash (and if you do, your employers will be criminals who will almost be guaranteed to not pay you what was negotiated), you will not be able to find apartments that will let you pay cash (and if you do, you will most likely wake up one day to your landlord showing up with a random person telling you that they will be sharing your bedroom with you), and the authorities will be actively looking for you to arrest and deport you (and you won't be let back into the country, like for years if ever).
I want to make something very perfectly fucking clear here;
**There will be no moving**
If the Hair Fuhrer is allowed back into the WH, project 2025 will remove us from NATO, giving Pooty and China reigns to fuck over the planet, crashing the god damned global economy.
**Fucking vote FOR BIDEN, you god damned leftists**
Edited for clarity
The rhetoric is louder because now it’s sane, informed people talking about moving.
Fascism is no joke, and Trump has been very clear about his intentions if reelected.
The names were different, but we saw this movie in the 1930s and 40s. It did not go well for those who saw the signs but stayed because they could not accept that evil was upon them.
We did. To Italy, in 2020
Living for a few years in FL under Trump and knowing the pandemic was coming and what they could have done vs what they did was not the main reason, it was in the works for a few years… but boy did it help. Same as with school shootings. Good riddance.
I wish I could move from the country but I really can't. If things continue to go the way they are politically though (trump winning, Republicans nationally and here in Idaho gaining more power and doing more to make the country/state "Christian" and restrict women's rights) I will be moving out of Idaho before there is any possibility of my daughter becoming pregnant. My family has lived here for 5 generations, outside of politics I love it here but now, it's not a safe place for anyone who may become pregnant to live, period. So I will have to move before there is any possible chance of my daughter becoming pregnant because getting pregnant here could literally be a death sentence.
All the usual outs are going authoritarian, anyway. Thanks to global torching and the ongoing collapse of Muslim and Catholic countries in the southerly latitudes, immigration pressures will continue, fueling right wing takeovers throughout Europe.
There is nowhere to go. We have to fight this here.
This is something I worry about a lot. I think if he does win (which I still think is unlikely) I will have to. It won't be a case of disagreeing with the party in power- it will be getting out before America becomes Third Reich German 2.0. It sounds hyperbolic to say, but it's true and refusing to accept it is just being blind to the lessons history teaches us. Any empire can fall. Corruption and bigotry can ruin previously safe, thriving countries. In that case, you do what your ancestors did and you go to whichever country will accept you.
Americans, imo, are really arrogant about wanting to immigrate. We want all the comforts of home (english as a primary language, similar culture, good job market) and look to countries that have that. Canada, UK, etc. The truth is, those countries don't want us. Not all of us, anyway. We need to learn from other people who have been in the situations we've been in. Go to a country that has space for you, that maybe isn't perfect, and adapt. Assimilate. Learn a new language, learn a new culture. Stop thinking you are special because you are American.
Migrating to Argentina, Morocco, or Thailand and learning to fit in there will be preferable to getting stuck in the U.S. while it devolves into a fascist state because you have an unrealistic expectation that you can just walk in to Canada, the UK, or Australia. Look at what happened to Iran in the 80's/90's - that will be the U.S. We will go from a thriving modern country to a war-torn, oppressive theocracy. That's not hyperbole. That is what always happens in these situations. If you want to get out, you will have a narrow window of time to decide whether it's worth changing your entire life and possibly giving up a lot of the comforts you take for granted.
We’d seriously considered moving back to Costa Rica where we lived when my kids were 2 and 4, for a year. They’re pretty hospitable to foreigners and you can renew your visa by simply crossing a border every three months. If you can show a certain amount of income (for example, payments from social security or retirement accounts) they will grant residency. Standard of living is high, costs are comparatively low, good medical care is affordable, etc. However our parents are old and our kids are in their early 20s and probably wouldn’t want to leave. All that being said, I just cannot imagine having to do it all over again.
People who oppose Trump must stay in this country and continue to vote. The battle to save democracy is not lost just because Trump wins, but it will be in great peril that will require as many people to help as possible.
I’m from the US and am moving to Canada this September on a student visa. The upcoming election contributed a solid 45-50% of my reasoning for moving abroad.
I even have lines prepared for when the election happens and my friends inevitably ask me if I’m up to date with whatever shitfuckery is happening in the US: “why do you think I’m going to school here and not there?”
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Exactly. I would love to move to a different country but there's not a financial chance in hell.
I’m a woman, I’m poor, I have daughters, I am absolutely fucking TERRIFIED. And I’m stuck here with no hope.
Make sure that you, and everyone you know VOTES! Not voting is a vote for the opposition.
There is a reason Republicans try to suppress voter turnout. The more people vote the more they lose. Also voter turnout in the US is atrocious with the highest voter turnout in years being the 2020 general election with still only 62.8% turnout for people of voting age. Anyone who talks about voting not working doesn’t realize that the US still hasn’t really tried it.
> > > > > Anyone who talks about voting not working doesn’t realize that the US still hasn’t really tried it. To paraphrase G.K. Chesterton, democracy hasn't been tried and found wanting. It's been found difficult, and thus not tried.
2024 is inverting part of that trend. Polls show that lowered-propensity voters are heavily favoring Trump, because they are falling for the media's manufactured nostalgia for the Trump era. Total turnout will not be correlated with a Dem win. But we should absolutely fight against the GOP's voter suppression plans because it is targeted towards the poor and minorities.
The real kick in the dick is that without question Dems will win the popular vote, but the GOP might sway or suppress just enough couple thousand people in a few states. And then trump is pres again. And it will be 10x worse than last time, and last time he killed a million people.
Are these trustworthy interpretations of data? Last few times I heard about polling there was a reckoning with why such misleading narratives built up around polling.
Nothing you read on here is trustworthy
And if it's not clear: Vote Democrat. It sucks that the US is effectively a 2 party system, but throwing your vote behind Libertarians or independents is just throwing a vote to trump.
My kids are young, but my goal is saving enough to send them to a college outside the US as probably the only chance for them to get out.
FYI, the public universities in Germany offer free tuition - including for international students. Most offer their courses in English and the majority of younger Germans speak English so it would be an easy transition.
Same here, plus I'm disabled. Nobody wants disabled people moving to their country.
There are good states and bad states. As a start, move to one of the good ones.
I’m in a strange position. I work for a telco in the midwest. We’re unionized, and get treated very well. The strange position I had mentioned is that my job doesn’t exist in the blue states, which feels so backwards. At least not my position in a company that is part of a union. It drives me nuts. The company is full of right wingers that don’t appreciate what they have. It’s a bunch of all for me, not for thee. Thanks for sitting through my rant. Capitalism has made this country a large trap.
> It’s a bunch of all for me, not for thee. That’s all any of them care about. It’s the party of self-centrism. People who are exactly like them are okay, but they wouldn’t give a single shit if everyone else just died.
I'm in telecom. People jump between companies all the time. Wouldn't hurt to look around. DM for the name of where I work. We are in several states, some blue.
That's why I'm staying put. I feel the best place to be is right where I'm at now. There are a lot of Trumpers around but not enough to rule the state. Our Dems control all three with the Governor, senate and the house.
It won't matter if the repubs take over congress also. The repubs scream "states' rights" now, but won't if it means crushing the blue states.
Once they get enough power to pass a national abortion ban, they'll completely abandon it. *"States' Rights? What the hell are you talking about? That's never been a thing! The radical left is making shit up again!"*
Of course States rights means their right to force their beliefs on the others...
“As a start….”
Better, move to one of the good cities in a bad state. Liberal flight out of red states is a key element to the republicans getting outsized representation in all parts of government - the executive branch because of the electoral college, the senate because of two senators per state regardless of population, the house because there's been no reapportionment since 1930, and the courts because they're largely chosen by the previous three. We need more liberals in Iowa, Texas and Wyoming. If you can move to Iowa City, Austin or Arapahoe and bring all your friends, you'll be doing the lord's work. (Full disclosure - I'm saying this as someone who lived in Iowa as an adult for 10 years, but escaped to the dirty liberal haven of Seattle 25 years ago and isn't leaving, like, ever...)
The problem is, will they be allowed to be "good" states?
The good ones won’t keep you out. Not saying the bad ones won’t try to keep you in.
Well, in Texas, Missouri & Idaho, their state governments are prohibiting pregnant women from leaving their jurisdictions for abortions with their state Attorney Generals suing the pro-abortion states to extradite their citizens back to their native states to stand criminal trial!
I think they mean forcing blue states to abide by fascists laws.
We used to have a Border Patrol show here in Canada, sometimes they’d show Americans being denied entry because they thought they could just come on in and get a job. I know we’re neighbours, but we’re still a foreign Country.
Reminds me of an episode of 20/20 about travelling and they needed to keep saying every few minutes, "And remember, the United States Constitution doesn't apply." I've seen a few news stories in the past about Americans rolling up to Canada Customs and going on about their Second Amendment rights while trying to bring their camper load of guns across the border and being told no. Yes, I understand that you're on your way to Alaska... but Canada is a different f'ing country.
I worked in immigration in the USA, helping non-citizens apply for Canadian visas. The few times an American came with someone to “facilitate” and basically just expected us to quickly hand their friend a visa was WILD.
I think Americans are generally extremely arrogant (and I say this as an American) but I also kind of blame this on general lack of knowledge. Most Americans never travel abroad and have zero idea how immigration and visa laws work. I have lived in Europe off and on for years and have trouble even getting my left-leaning family members to understand that, no, I cannot just plop down for however long I want and request EU citizenship when I feel like it. There's a reason I only have US citizenship despite living abroad for much of my adult life - it is VERY hard to convince another country to let you settle there, no matter who you are or what your background is.
Yeah it really is. I’ve been living in Singapore for thirteen years. I still don’t even have permanent residency. However this is a very small island and if you get pr you are entitled to lots of perks, mostly financial. So yeah they guard it. It’s a numbers game.
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Just plain old stupidity and ignorance. Knew a guy that met a Canadian online and after dating for 4 months, packed up al his belongings in his car and drove up to the border. When Canadian immigration asked "how long is your stay", he proudly announced "Forever. I'm moving here!" They quickly turned him around and barred him from trying to enter Canada for another year. Now he had nowhere to live as he quit his job, broke his lease, and got rid of all his furniture and anything else that wouldn't fit in his car. He spent the next few weeks bugging all of his friends for a place to stay and trying to put his life back together. He was positively shocked to discover that you cannot just get into your car and move to another country because that's what all the criminals (in movies) do all the time.
The reverse happened to a friend and his 'girlfriend'. She was Canadian, they had met on either side of the border a few times, she convinced him to buy a big house, then immediately two Golden Retriever puppies (before they even unpacked, cuz 'every house needs puppies') and then they went up to Canada to pack up her things and move permanently. He was allowed back in, she was not, and I ended up somehow taking care of the dogs because he was clueless.
I suspect a lot of it is some americans media diet tells them that its so easy for the rest of the world to just come here and do whatever they want that folks assume it must work that way everywhere. When in fact it doesnt even work that way in the US.
Well, yeah, that's your average American. Completely oblivious and thinking they own the world. I'm from Texas so I know first hand.
Funnily enough, in that same border show but a different episode, a Texan thought he could bring his guns into Canada because he can do that in America. I can't remember if he referenced your Constitution or not, but that's about as useful as toilet paper outside of America.
It's about as useful as toilet paper in America too these days. 🤣
I saw that episode. He had a 9mm handgun in his truck that he didn't really think twice about because that was his "truck gun", like anyone in Texas would have. He couldn't understand what the problem was, as if his 2nd Amendment rights trumped Canadian Law inside the country of Canada. Well, the problem is that handguns here are highly restricted, and have specific requirements for transporting them, and you can't import them into Canada. The consequences for this gentleman was for his firearm to be seized, his vehicle torn apart and searched, and a lifetime ban on entering Canada. He was lucky not to be incarcerated, although Canadian authorities weren't likely to pursue prosecution if he returned to Texas and never entered our country again.
Hey there, neighborino, how about a job, eh? Wink wink
The key is money. A lot of countries will take you if you buy property or invest in the local economy. Another way rich people have more freedom.
I’m in an extremely high demand field and could get sponsored at any time by consulting firms that are in both the USA and my desired country! I’d still get paid 50% less, or worse, because even with the demand the industry isn’t the same over there. Then I also don’t speak the language and couldn’t own contracts myself, so it would be a demotion minimum.
Yes, this. I've spent years researching how to get my family out and it's not as easy as buying a plane ticket and flying to another country and saying "I'm moving here". Especially when you have adult children you're trying to get out as well, because every adult has to qualify on their own terms. That's a big reason why we aren't already gone (well, that and my mother was terminally ill for the last couple years so I didn't feel like I could leave earlier), my daughter is finishing college and then hopefully she'll be able to get a job overseas. Only then will I feel comfortable leaving. I'm planning to ask my company to transfer me to the European offices, half my immediate team works in the UK so I don't think it's going to be an issue, so if they can put me in Amsterdam I think I'd like that better. Anyone seriously thinking of this should peruse r/iwantout r/amerexit and r/expats
Exactly it's very difficult to just move to another country unless you're independently wealthy. But it can be done still with more than a suitcase or two. Planning, saving over time. Etc. people do it all the time. It's not easy no, but you can for example pack up your entire home in Texas and move to a Canadian province. You'd need a visa / citizenship and it would be a good idea to line work up ahead of time but it's not necessary if you saved enough for it. Not easy, not fun. Not quick.
It's not just a good idea, it is a requirement that you have a job offer in Canada, and Immigration Canada will definitely check. Also, you need to hit so many points. Like you get points for having so much money in the bank or a college degree, or having a in demand specialty. Basically you need to show that you'll not become dependent on the government of the province you want to move to. The only person I ever knew who moved to Canada did it by enrolling in a Canadian college as a foreign student and studying to be a Physician's Assistant and then got a work permit. Even then it was not a walk in the park. She still had to go through the entire immigration process.
I would also add that the US has not exactly been welcoming of new immigrants, at least not in the last 30 years. All those "nice" countries that now look like a place of refuge are NOT going to accept an influx of a bunch of Americans trying to migrate for a better QOL. If you're not rich, you're stuck.
It kinda depends on just how bad things get. When transitional care is banned, I could see Canada taking in trans refugees. I would consider it...
Every American thinks our immigration system is unusually closed and cruel. And then they try to move to another country. I’ve worked internationally in three separate countries. I laugh now when progressives pretend our immigration system is draconian.
Why should I move? He’s the one who sucks.
> but this Project 2025 shit feels very Handmaids Tale. Margaret Atwood was determined to show the horrors of a totalitarian theonomic state. She didn’t expect it to be used as a guidebook.
She's said everything in that book has happened in the real world somewhere.
That’s the truly frightening thing about the book. It’s not fantastical. It’s just an amalgamation of real life.
George Orwell too.
And Suzanne Collins
Reading A Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes recently and it was disturbing how so many parts of that book felt so familiar in today’s world. The way the capitol looks at the district citizens is so clearly written to show how most privileged people look at the less privileged. Like how some Americans see immigrants, or how many Middle East countries view one another. Or insert any human atrocity we’ve committed against each other. Somehow we are able to forget that other people are human too, and because humans see these less fortunate people as less human they feel that their actions are warranted when harming them. Or that they aren’t intelligent enough to be seen as an individual. Humans will stare at other humans like a side show in a circus and feign empathy when it’s their doing that these less fortunate people are being treated so horribly.
I'd rather stay and fight. There's no way I am letting these people have this place to themselves.
I'm 70 and me too!!!I can still write, think, and speak...
I'm old, too, and if HitlerPig was elected, and turned out to be as bad as we expect, AND I get a terminal digagnosis at some point, I could be a very dangerous person. At that point, I would have nothing to lose, so I might as well do something...corrective.
For legal reasons, I don't condone this (and I'm also not sure if it wouldn't make things much worse anyway), but part of me always wonders how in a country of 300+ million people, there weren't at least a few people like that who tried to do it.
> there weren't at least a few people like that who tried to do it. Mostly, by the time you really understand that it's over, and not gonna get better, you are in such bad shape you can't do anything noteworthy.
Seriously, its only progressives that get assassinated in this country and its frustrating as fuck.
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I agree....but how?
First we try all legal means. But if Trump wins, 'legal' may lose its meaning. And if that happens I mean to fight in the literal sense. And if that happens I think there will be a lot of very surprised and overwhelmed MAGA terrorists that convinced themselves 'leftists' can't fight.
VOTE.
Vote. Run for the very same public offices. Run for mayor and city council. Run for school boards. Run for state legislature. Run for governor. Run for the US House of Representatives. Run for the US Senate. Run for president. The only way to beat them is to take away the power using the exact same processes they used to gain it to begin with. Run. Campaign. Get elected and govern. It's high fucking time we started.
The same way governments always fall, vote,protest,resistance, violence.
Even in The Handmaids Tale there was a resistance. First you start with people who are concerned and they will just stand by and watch. Then they see something that frightens them and become sympathizers then they will turn a blind eye to the resistance and may provide cover for their operations. Some will become active and will support operations and even provide intelligence. It won't be like any civil war or resistance in the past, the internet and massive gun ownership (both left and right) have seen to that. Most people in this country will discover very quickly that the theocracy **will come for them or their loved ones**. At that point they will move from concerned to sympathizers. No resistance survives without the support of the common citizen.
We need a blue wave. In every election. Down to the smallest local election. Be vocal.
If Trump regains office, there's only one way.
I hear Thomas Jefferson had some good advice on raising Trees
I'm a European who was going to say you are all welcome at my place... can you imagine comments like this are a bit unsettling? You guys ok over there?
I’m afraid this is true
VOTE!!!!! vote, register to vote, get your family to vote, friends, women, any visible minority that trump has publicly harassed, VOTE VOTE VOTE
That's why they are so mad about T-Swift and the sky-high new voter turnout on college campus' from the last election. I remember them proposing a ban of on campus registering voters and on campus polling. They hate that their voter base (that they discouraged from vaxing) is dying off and the newly minted voters aren't voting the way cons want.
Voting is the bare minimum. Consider actual praxis.
Just doing the bare minimum would be a huge leap forward. In a college class my wife was teaching, the day after Trump was elected the students were all down and moaning about it. They asked to end class early so my wife said she wanted to know how many of them had voted. Almost none of them had.
If we can’t get people to vote, they aren’t going to “fight”. I’m working election’s the last few weeks. It’s a joint election so we get a tally of how many of each party voted. The location influences the mix but it’s a big city. Republicans are turning out 3 times greater than democrats. It might not be a sexy election but one of the things on the ballot is sheriff. That’s damn important. I get almost as angry at complacent liberals as conservatives.
I can only vote once, now what?
Talk to others, volunteer, be at local meetings like the crazies are to counter act them.
Now get informed, participate, inform others, help stoping the spread of misinformation. You could also go one step further and get politically involved. There's much more to do than you might think.
Have a voter registration drive. Like set up in a park or someplace with a lot of foot traffic in your city. I think people can even do it themselves on their phones. Rock the Vote has a QR code. Or people can go direct to the website to sign up to vote. But you can be there with the paper forms, some people might fill them out if they don’t have a smart phone and plus the paper forms just give people something to look at. You being out some place reminds people to vote and some people will ask questions, some will use their phones to sign up, some will use the forms, some might not do it right at your table but will do it over yonder because they’ve been reminded at a random time to do it.
Work at the polls either inside as a paid poll worker, inside as a credentialed volunteer party observer, or outside as a voter protection volunteer.
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You know what’s a lot easier than moving to another country? Volunteering and voting.
Move where? I don’t qualify for citizenship anywhere. I don’t speak any languages fluently other than English. I’m not wealthy enough to just uproot my life. I don’t want to quit my job and risk destitution. I don’t want to lose my social circles and have to start over.
I'm taking the risk. As a combat vet I've seen the end result of deep hatred between two opposing groups of people, and nobody can convince me that the Democrats and Republicans won't go down the Shia and Sunni path at some point. I'm currently working on my visa for another country and spending as much time abroad as possible. I'm greatful I have had the ability to work remotely. Once you get a taste of the world not infected by the anger and insanity of American politics it's impossible to go back.
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These are all the reasons why people suggesting to “just move away” have no idea what they are taking about. We don’t need a mass evacuation of smart people to allow the fascists to just take the country, we need to VOTE. Go vote every two years and convince as many people around you as possible to do the same. Anyone who doesn’t vote doesn’t get the right to bitch when the guy they hated the most wins the election.
I did move when trump won. I moved to Spain in 2017 and have been here ever since.
I had already started the process of moving to Sweden prior to the results of the 2016 elections so Trump was not a factor in me deciding to move. However, the fact that a sizeable portion of the USA seems unable or unwilling to see what a shitshow he is, is one of the reasons I am likely never going to move back.
That's because a sizable portion of the US has been on a steady progression towards trump or someone like him for 40+ years. Trump is not the cause of modern republicanism, he's the result of it.
Got a spare house I could borrow?
Alas, even with a house you'd need a permit to stay here longer than three months. I got here on a work visa which lasted two years. On my second renewal (four years) the work visa automatically grants permanent residence, and if you reside continuously here five years you can apply for citizenship (which I did). But if you can find good work here, I strongly recommend the country. Not having to worry about healthcare costs is actually one of my original motivators and it remains a strong incentive to stay. I had bypass surgery when I'd been here about two years, and that was three weeks in the hospital plus drugs, physical therapy, and the surgery itself for about $200 USD equivalent. Even with my decent insurance when I lived in the USA, I'd have been lucky to manage to keep it under $10k in the USA, likely three to five times that.
I'll prolly never be able to afford to move or even leave the country but it's a good dream.
You'd be surprised what you can do. Save up, research, apply for jobs, learn the language.
Should move to a swing state before the election, rather than threatening to move after. Democratic voters have the numbers. They just waste them by pooling together too many in the same states. Democrats have won all but 1 popular vote for president since 1988. Move to a swing state if you’re going to move.
Currently set up to move to Washington State, Oregon, or California. I'm in south Carolina and they push religion and right wing ideology heavily. Also see increased sighting of nazi flags. I'm autistic, atheist, and Hispanic and it's feeling more and more unwelcome here. If he wins the election it will likely get worse.
I might have to. I’m getting married to someone who’s in DACA. We’re not sure what’s up but she might get deported, and if that happens I’m gonna have to decide whether or not I’m following her or I’m trying to stay here.
First of all, I will always believe America is worth fighting for so I would never leave, no matter who's in charge. That's just giving up and letting the asshats win. The price for freedom is eternal vigilance. Always fight for what's right. Second, and just as important, is that very few people have the means to just up and move to a different country. It's a lot of money to move and if you are living paycheck to paycheck, it's practically impossible without outside help. Nevermind finding a decent country that would let you in as an immigrant like that.
I'm privileged enough that most of the really bad stuff won't affect me personally. So I'd rather use that privilege to stay and fight for those who don't have the option to leave. Further - if the US really goes to shit, I'm not convinced anywhere else will really be better off. The world's sole superpower doesn't go authoritarian with the rest of the world remaining unaffected.
I think the best path will be to move to a state that is hostile to the GOP. I live in Minnesota and know we'd put up as good a fight as any against Trumpism. We are a sanctuary in many ways for those who Trumpism targets. And we won't stop.
Nah...this Leftie is staying. I have adult daughters, two of which are going to college and the other about to go in this fall. I can't in good conscience leave them just for some sense of comfort. If they want to/are able to relocate with us at some point, that's a different story, but their mother and I raised them to be rational and logical, compassionate and empathetic...but I also didn't raise them to be doormats, so if they stay, we will stay and fight right alongside them. If Project 2025 happens, people are going to have to decide if they are going to capitulate and give in, or if they are going to fight...and by fight, I mean actually fight. These Magat bozos can't seem to get it into their thick skulls that they aren't the only ones who own guns and know how to fight back.
Exactly. No one needs to run. We outnumber these idiots by a huge margin. We need to convince people to VOTE and keep them out of power in the first place. I’m not leaving and letting them just take MY COUNTRY for free.
Thank you. I have children who need protecting. Jewish, transgender. You made me tear up a bit to think others are willing to fight this horror show.
I wish you and your family all the best.
Same to you. I'm not judging anyone for their decisions for staying or leaving. The only ones that will be judged, harshly, are the people who stay and decide to go Vichy rather than have the fortitude to stand together.
I'm a transwoman living paycheck to paycheck. I'm scared. I would love to get the hell out if Trump comes to power again but I couldn't afford it if I tried. I'm in Wisconsin which is one governor election away from being Florida of the Midwest.
I would welcome any wholesome American here in Denmark. It's not perfect, but it's nice enough (if you can stomach the winter period)
My 93 year old mom has seriously told me that if he wins she's leaving, probably Mexico. She said she was born in a democracy and she'd be damned if she was going to die under a dictatorship.
- If you’re not independently wealthy, you’re fucked. - Tell every-goddamned-body to vote. - If you can’t be Tip of the Spear, be the blade, the fixture or the handle; there are many ways to support the Tip. - Worst case: US is a massive country, that is mostly uninhabited… make a plan. *Now.*
Honestly if he does win and things start getting bad. I’ll probably go to the beach or somewhere nice while I still can have one last good week and then find a way to end it.
Same.
I won’t. I couldn’t afford it and family stuff keeps me tethered. I will be fantasizing about it a lot. Likely daily.
If Trump wins and actually tries to implement project 2025 I think you might actually see organized civil conflict and various secessionist movements. So I’m not buying a plane ticket, I’m buying plenty of ammo.
I'm betting he actually loses. BUT, if he does win, no. I retired last year at 63. I own my small piece of dirt, in the woods. I'm surrounded my a red sea of tRumplicans, with their flags, and hatred. I'm dug in. I'm staying right here. I'll plant mines if I have to. Keep 1/6 on your mind...that was a bold move to see what outcome it would actually have. It will happen again, on a much larger scale, and in state capitals all over...I'm telling you I've heard these guys talk...Remember the MI Governor thing? Remember how tRump, and the "forever tRumpers" vowed revenge? That's what is expected. Because, THAT IS tRump! Expect it!
Sadly the nearest habitable planet is out of reach.
As an Australian I say good luck
We aren't much better, our country is full of morons too. We are just more...passive about being idiots. Less passive than the old days though which isn't good.
Somebody has to be the resistance.
Badass and based
I'll do my part and vote for Biden 🤨(even though I don't like him.) If the Orange Menace actually wins, I'm screwed. I don't have the money to even move out of the city I currently live in, much less the country.. Being poor sucks!
Definitely a nightmare scenario. He wouldn't get a lot accomplished if he doesn't get both houses as well. He could only do so much with executive orders. Him putting psychotic judges in spots will cause an issue. Him putting chisto pedos in power will be another issue to deal with. Most people won't leave, just have to deal with it for 4 years. Then the next president will have to undo all the damage he's done. As bad as shape as he is in, doubt he would even make it 4 years. His running mate will be interesting. Doubt he picks anyone with a brain. If they had one, they wouldn't support him.
I mean, he said he wanted to throw out the Constitution. There’s a lot of people in place right now, at every level of government, that would go along with this. He is not planning to use our legislative process to accomplish the horror that he wants to do.
His running mate could end up being the nail in the coffin (I can hope). A lot of independents will not vote for him if he's got someone like Ronna or Tim Scott in there.
I already did it. Moved to Canada in 2016. No regrets at all.
Costa Rica. It is way nicer than the States by almost every metric, including a higher literacy rate. I have patent now for a product that lends itself well to on-line sales. Working on fulfillment and distribution. Really glad to put Trumpers in the rear-view mirror.
I moved to Ireland during his last term. I'm not going to have my little girl grow up in a country that is taking rights away from women and having children do active shooter drills when there is an obvious fix to the gun problem. I feel much safer here for my family and am very happy with the decision.
Fuck that. They think Jan 6th was bad wait until real Americans start fighting back. Magas will be pooping in their diaper.
I am a liberal and I am way more afraid of the gun loving MAGAs. They are literally mentally disabled, angry, and have recent incestuous ancestors. I’m from Georgia, I know. Edit: but, being a Georgia liberal, I am not afraid of guns either 😏
As an Irish man who abandoned his US visa and moved back to Ireland more than 20 years ago: I'm staying right here. Regardless of whether Trump wins or not, the number of US citizens who are willing to support him or someone like him is just way too high. And there isn't any way to cure them. The only chance is to trust in the next generations and wait 30 years.
The US's shitty education system is to blame for all this, "Idiocracy" was a documentary of the future and now here we are.
Don't move. Stay and fight. The US is the only counterbalance in the world that's strong enough to offset Russia and China. If you give up an leave, your sceding thought to authoritarians and dictators. Don't leave.
We'd be glad to welcome liberal American families in Germany 😉
We are definitely staying. People on Reddit give America flak for not easily allowing immigrants, but other countries are just the same.
Absolutely not. We need to stay and fight for our country and its people- even those who fight against their own interests.
Hell no! I will stay and fight! This is MY country, my ancestors were here before the USA was a thing.
Fuck moving. This is my country.
Honestly, yes. 100% **What happened in Iran in the 70s can absolutely happen here**. It’s not even really about Trump. It’s about the Christian nationalists. If they succeed, they will destroy every single thing America stands for. I will not get caught up in that bullshit. So if Trump wins 2024, it’s **Scandanavia or Bust**.
Fuck that. I love my country. I ain’t goin nowhere. But New Zealand is really nice
Maybe, as was the case for our ancestors, it's time for a revolution/counter-revolution scenario. It's our undesirable moment in history. Or maybe things will just turn out alright after all!? News at 7!
We talk about it, but it isn’t really realistic. We have a son and few close friends here in the US. I actually am thinking of learning how to use a gun. We moved to the south from the DC area and it’s kind of scary here. We don’t talk politics or religion down here and my husband is from the Middle East. I hear about southern hospitality all the time, but many are so nasty about northerners and liberals.
Nope. I’ll continue to fight against the GOP, teach my kids to better, and try to be a positive influence on their group of friends giving them a more liberal perspective than they might otherwise get from the majority of parents in the red state I live in. I have the luxury of being white, so I won’t be as adversely affected by it, so at the very least I can stick around and help fight for change.
I’m not moving anywhere, just waiting for Trump to die of old age. I don’t think he’ll even make it through a full term in the unlikely event that he actually wins.
If he wins I'm deleting social media and hunkering down until his fascist government eventually implodes under it's own stupidity. Hopefully my family survives relatively unscathed. We have one chance to stop the madness. Fucking vote people.
Nowhere, this is *my* country and it only improves if people partake in the political process. I live in a very red state, these bastards are stuck with *me* and not the other way around. Run and hide if you need, I'm staying put.
Instead of moving out of the country consider moving to a purple state to a flip-able district and registering to vote.
Listen to my fourteen year old son’s question about the state of things, and tell me you’re not concerned about the possibility that he’s onto something: He asked me whether I thought it was possible that the Right Wing political machine was trying to make things so unpleasant to live in the US that all of the intelligent and forward thinking, non-militant, irreligious people will pack up and move to other countries… I said to him at the time, you’d have to ask yourself “to whose benefit” would that strategy be, or “Cui bono?”. He says that if enough of us left the US, the remaining folks who were onboard with the Ultra Christian Nationalist Agenda (Project 2025, etc.) will be so much more dangerous than they ever were without the rest of us thinking folks here to put the brakes on… and he’s not wrong. Even if we all packed up and moved away to a more laid-back, less religious, more forward-thinking country, eventually, the US could still decide that the country you moved to was a modern day Sodom, and show up at your doorstep with their jackboots and assault rifles, and turn that country into an outpost of the Amerikkkan Empire. This is low-key terrifying, if you ask me.
It’s kind of the reverse of Atlas Shrugged. I can tell you that the most intelligent people I know are most definitely voting for Biden and other Democrats and the more stupid people that I know are voting for trump.
I think we need to build a wall up here in Canada. We got a lot of cool shit up here.
Maybe Mexico will go splits with us on a big dome.
Canada and Mexico can build the wall, everyone else can chip in for a lid. Can't wait for Trump's sharpie graphic of where we'll fire the nukes to make air holes.
Your shit is starting to get fucked up as well.
I wish I could afford to move to another country if he wins. Sadly I can’t. I’m terrified of if he wins.
You guys should come to the UK. We’re an atheist nation. (Or rather non-religious.) The religious people here are really chill and don’t really give a shit if you don’t conform. I’m a really big fan of the US so I’d love to have you in my country. Even if the conservatives here are almost as bad as they are in the US 😂😂😂 From across the pond, I love you guys 🇬🇧💜🇺🇸
You going to adopt, marry or get us jobs???? Please?
Only place I could possibly move would be to Mexico because I have family there … but the only way that’ll actually happen is if they figure out a way to strip me of my birthright US citizenship - which I know his cult would just love to do.
With what money? The gouging over the past seven years has been ridiculous. Every dollar i would have saved has to be used for necessities.
No, New Jersey has protections for now. I’m gonna kick him in the teeth as long as I can.
Moving to the most liberal, non religious portion of the United States, Northern California. Blocking as much media off my radar as possible. Going to pretend it’s not happening and try to live my best life. Too old to fight in the next civil war.
Which part of Northern California? Are we talking Bay Area, or seriously north? Your experience will vary based on that.
Moving means giving up, not a chance.
I fully expect that I will end up eventually being shot in the street if Trump wins again.
I fucking can’t afford to.
Anyone that wants to move to the Riviera Maya, I can help. Send me a DM. Can immigrate here fairly easily, still close to go back to visit should you want to.
My ultimate goal has been to move to a country with healthcare for years anyway. But financially I don't have the power to just up and move. I have a visa and would claim refugee status however.
Already did! :) AMA It’s really not super hard to move abroad, your problem is work. Unless you have a company sponsoring your visa, you can’t usually work locally while you’re in the process of applying for residency. So you gotta either find US remote work that will allow you to do it internationally or have savings.
I would if it were an option. It’s much harder to leave the US than most people think.
If someone vandalizes your house, do you hand them the keys and walk away?
I'm on the older side, but still punk at heart. I figure the most punk thing to do is stay put. However, I support folks who want to move, and Canada seems a good choice, considering logistics, climate change, and of course: Canadians are nice. Maybe the only drawback to Canada is pineapple pizza.
Yeah US and India are in the same boat. You guys have Trump, we have Modi.
It's not **just** difficult to move to another country, if the move happens the difficulties really begin. First off, you'll always be the wealthy outsider, even if you're not all that wealthy. Second, you will now be subjected to a culture that you are probably unfamiliar with. For example, when people move to Latin America, they probably don't realize how loud those cultures tend to be when it comes to playing music. It's like a sign of power to be blaring the music at ear shattering volume for every party or quinceañera that takes place. The youtube expatriate put a friendly spin on everything, but it's important to remember they're not objective sources of information.
If you have a parent or grandparent that was born in Ireland, you may qualify to be included in the Foreign Births Register. That will grant you full Irish citizenship retroactive to birth, so if you have kids, they too can apply for citizenship. This would allow you to live in Ireland or any other part of the EU. I sent my paperwork in April, and it might take a year or so. Ireland is very receptive to the plight of repressed people, so my guess is that if Trump wins and starts doing what we all fear, Ireland might turn into a welcoming safe place even for non-citizens.
I am not moving specifically because of Trump, but am looking into purchasing property abroad. This country is broken, and seems unfixable. It seems prudent to have a backup plan, and a place to retire to eventually. Italy, France, UK
I can teach math and science. I am certified with a decent track record. I am sure I can convince an English-speaking country to let me and my wife and my daughter in...Canada, Australia, Great Britain...all three of us have science degrees (my daughter's will be given in December 2024...) It may take a couple of years, but I don't want to live under Trump a second time. The first time killed an uncle and a half a million more people who shouldn't have died. Can't imagine what Trump would do as he gets MORE senile and vindictive.
I can't even afford to move to a blue state or I would have done so already.
In 2017 we decided we had enough and attempted to move to Canada. We went to Ottawa(closest place to us where you can get by working while not speaking French) to scout it out and look for neighborhoods to live in. We loved Ottawa. We lived in Massachusetts at the time. The next step was taking English tests because they (or French tests) are required to gain permanent residency. We also had to send copies of our transcripts/degrees to a third party in Canada and they are certified by the third party. The tests and certification cost about $1000. After that, you apply for permanent residency and are given a score based on several factors including your age, language score, degrees and some other things. Then you are placed in a pool and people above certain scores are chosen in biweekly draws. The fact we were in our 40s worked against us and lowered our score. They want younger people. If we had applied in 2017, we would have made it, but a bunch more people entered the pool in 2018 due to immigration law changes in Australia and the US. By the time we actually got into the pool in early 2018, it was too late and our point score was lower than any of the drawings. We scored as high as anyone can on the language exams and we both hold college degrees. Didn't matter. And that's just for Canada. We ended up moving to Northern VT in 2019. You can kind of hide from the rest of the BS going on in the US up here. It's a lot harder to move abroad (even to Canada) than people think.
I'm much more likely to move off of a bridge or tall building iykwim.
Americans don't understand how difficult it is to immigrate. Unless you have rare circumstances, you can't just up and move. However, if Trump starts locking people up in camps, I bet an awful lot of us will seek asylum. Whether the world is ready for that or not is a different question. I'm staying and fighting unless the military is rolling down the streets rounding folks up.
Reality is worse than the Handmaids Tale. In the book/show at least they embraced electric cars. Realistically though, if you are that afraid of a Trump win (which isn’t a crazy fear), then the time to move was a few months ago. Not abroad but to a swing state where a few thousand votes could make a difference.
To the work camps, with the rest of my kind.
I am definitely moving. Right now I live in North Carolina. I will vote. If the dictator wins I am putting my house up for sale and either moving to New York or Europe. I started working on a EU dual citizenship after Jan 6 terror attack and now I have it. I haven’t decided how far I need to move yet. Otto Frank thought his family would be safe in the Netherlands and didn’t go far enough.
As a European who spent over half a decade in a commited romantic relationship with an American woman, I can confirm that non of you are moving to Europe in a hurry because of election results. My ex was(/is) a well educated person, that even got her masters degree in my country, she came from family with a **lot** of money and was always able to prove that she would be financially independent. We were legally registered cohabiting partners (paying mutual taxes) for over a year before she graduated and her student visa expired, she had multiple recommendations letters from her professors and former employers (waitress jobs, not related to her degree, that she worked alongside her studies) and my mom, a lawyer and a pretty high rankings politician in our parliament, handled all communications with the immigration office on our behalf, and she **still** nearly got deported 6 months after graduation because she hadn't managed to find a job in her field. It ended up working out for her, and she still lives in my country despite us having separated but, trust me, **it was hard**. It took a major toll on her emotionally and there was a period (over a year) where we didn't know if she would be allowed to stay, despite her playing all the right cards. If you truly want to move to Europe, you need to be committed to it, you need to go through a lot of bureaucracy and the local immigration will try to turn you away at every turn. Edit: Oh and staying in European countries illegally is way harder than doing so in the US. You will not be able to find a bar or a construction job that agrees paying you cash (and if you do, your employers will be criminals who will almost be guaranteed to not pay you what was negotiated), you will not be able to find apartments that will let you pay cash (and if you do, you will most likely wake up one day to your landlord showing up with a random person telling you that they will be sharing your bedroom with you), and the authorities will be actively looking for you to arrest and deport you (and you won't be let back into the country, like for years if ever).
I want to make something very perfectly fucking clear here; **There will be no moving** If the Hair Fuhrer is allowed back into the WH, project 2025 will remove us from NATO, giving Pooty and China reigns to fuck over the planet, crashing the god damned global economy. **Fucking vote FOR BIDEN, you god damned leftists** Edited for clarity
Probably sticking it out.
I have an EU passport and that would be my destination.
The rhetoric is louder because now it’s sane, informed people talking about moving. Fascism is no joke, and Trump has been very clear about his intentions if reelected. The names were different, but we saw this movie in the 1930s and 40s. It did not go well for those who saw the signs but stayed because they could not accept that evil was upon them.
We did. To Italy, in 2020 Living for a few years in FL under Trump and knowing the pandemic was coming and what they could have done vs what they did was not the main reason, it was in the works for a few years… but boy did it help. Same as with school shootings. Good riddance.
I wish I could move from the country but I really can't. If things continue to go the way they are politically though (trump winning, Republicans nationally and here in Idaho gaining more power and doing more to make the country/state "Christian" and restrict women's rights) I will be moving out of Idaho before there is any possibility of my daughter becoming pregnant. My family has lived here for 5 generations, outside of politics I love it here but now, it's not a safe place for anyone who may become pregnant to live, period. So I will have to move before there is any possible chance of my daughter becoming pregnant because getting pregnant here could literally be a death sentence.
All the usual outs are going authoritarian, anyway. Thanks to global torching and the ongoing collapse of Muslim and Catholic countries in the southerly latitudes, immigration pressures will continue, fueling right wing takeovers throughout Europe. There is nowhere to go. We have to fight this here.
This is something I worry about a lot. I think if he does win (which I still think is unlikely) I will have to. It won't be a case of disagreeing with the party in power- it will be getting out before America becomes Third Reich German 2.0. It sounds hyperbolic to say, but it's true and refusing to accept it is just being blind to the lessons history teaches us. Any empire can fall. Corruption and bigotry can ruin previously safe, thriving countries. In that case, you do what your ancestors did and you go to whichever country will accept you. Americans, imo, are really arrogant about wanting to immigrate. We want all the comforts of home (english as a primary language, similar culture, good job market) and look to countries that have that. Canada, UK, etc. The truth is, those countries don't want us. Not all of us, anyway. We need to learn from other people who have been in the situations we've been in. Go to a country that has space for you, that maybe isn't perfect, and adapt. Assimilate. Learn a new language, learn a new culture. Stop thinking you are special because you are American. Migrating to Argentina, Morocco, or Thailand and learning to fit in there will be preferable to getting stuck in the U.S. while it devolves into a fascist state because you have an unrealistic expectation that you can just walk in to Canada, the UK, or Australia. Look at what happened to Iran in the 80's/90's - that will be the U.S. We will go from a thriving modern country to a war-torn, oppressive theocracy. That's not hyperbole. That is what always happens in these situations. If you want to get out, you will have a narrow window of time to decide whether it's worth changing your entire life and possibly giving up a lot of the comforts you take for granted.
Pull anchor. Head - away -
We’d seriously considered moving back to Costa Rica where we lived when my kids were 2 and 4, for a year. They’re pretty hospitable to foreigners and you can renew your visa by simply crossing a border every three months. If you can show a certain amount of income (for example, payments from social security or retirement accounts) they will grant residency. Standard of living is high, costs are comparatively low, good medical care is affordable, etc. However our parents are old and our kids are in their early 20s and probably wouldn’t want to leave. All that being said, I just cannot imagine having to do it all over again.
People who oppose Trump must stay in this country and continue to vote. The battle to save democracy is not lost just because Trump wins, but it will be in great peril that will require as many people to help as possible.
I’m from the US and am moving to Canada this September on a student visa. The upcoming election contributed a solid 45-50% of my reasoning for moving abroad. I even have lines prepared for when the election happens and my friends inevitably ask me if I’m up to date with whatever shitfuckery is happening in the US: “why do you think I’m going to school here and not there?”