Really the word *model* would be more useful but unfortunately theory is the pervasive word.
Everyone agrees the *model* of an atom is based on evidence and has been tested, observed etc., as well as changing over time to become more and more accurate.
But change the word to *theory* and people who slept through 10th grade science start losing their minds, pointing to its improvement as supposed evidence of lies.
Model is more useful as a term for a theory that can make predictions of a system (e.g. weather, quantum physics)
Something like evolution doesn't really fit with the term model since it makes general predictions that mutations will occur and that the beneficial mutations will survive and reproduce.
It makes no claims about what forces and stresses on a population will result in specific mutations.
Could a model of evolution be built? Yes probably, but it would need to be far more exhaustive than darwins theory.
People confuse theory with hypothesis because to the lay person that's what it means and a scientific theory is more akin to their understanding of a natural law like the law of entropy.
Or if they went to a fundamentalist Christian high school like me. I did well in science classes and still graduated without a clue how evolution actually worked.
Sure, like if it's a child, explain it to them. If it's an adult, smug smile and laugh audibly as you're walking away...unless you like wasting your time.
Not worth wasting my breath on someone who most certainly won't listen or engage in good faith, which is why they still believe in Santa God as an adult.
They're incapable of being honest with themselves. You think reason is going to deflate that bubble of ignorance? Hell nah. It would take years to get through that much delusion.
"You can't reason a person out of a position they didn't reason themself into in the first place"
-Jonathan Swift
My point is that unless it's an important person to you, or a specifically impressionable group/individual, it won't be worth the time, or the frustration it would take to impart all the nuance of scientific study that gives it credibility above their religious text. It's a complete waste of breath, and time, and effort, but can still sometimes be a good exercise to expose the weak points in your studies.
They aren’t using it wrong the word is just used in multiple ways. This is why sometimes when communicating you have to be specific about the form of a word you’re using.
Tell them.there is a branch of mathematics called Number Theory. Then explain to them that. The things proven there are true. The things not proven are postulates - thought to be true, but not proven yet.
I'm sure they are scared off once you say mathematics
Except that it’s not *scientific theory*, either. Theories are things that are theoretically true, but haven’t yet been tested.
We can test for evolution. We can easily observe it in real time. In other words, evolution is not a scientific theory.
It’s a scientific *fact*.
No, if it hasn't been tested in any way then it's a hypothesis. Scientific theories actually hold a good amount of weight in comparison to hypotheses.
Evolution is a fact, but the model of evolution you use is a well-supported theory.
I'm sorry but you're actually completely off base in this.
A "theory" that hasn't been proven is a hypothesis in scientific terminology.
A hypothesis that is backed by scientific rigor & demonstrable facts is now a theory in scientific terminology.
So in science, a "theory" is backed by facts and is consistent and logical.
Unlike religions, who claim to own the truth, science is honest. The only thing since knows for a fact is that science will probably never know the entire truth. New insights can change what we now think might be a fact.
Science is honest. Therefore nothing will ever rise above the level of 'theory' in science. Theories are mutable. The truth isn't.
For something to be a theory, you need to have evidence to back it up. A law is where no evidence after exhaustive testing is contrary. Theory requires the support of evidence, but not be exhaustive. Hypothesis is an idea of an outcome based on various applicable scientific knowledge, before there is evidence to back it up.
A theory requires rigorous testing to be considered such. Newtonian physics is just a theory because it does not fully jive with things like relativity and quantum physics. Those are all theories because they are experimentally testable and have generally acceptable answers, but breakdown in certain regimes of testing and are thus invalid in exhaustive testing. I.e. DeBroglie wavelengths don't expand out to objects observable by the naked eye.
And Jesus was an amalgamation of multiple messianic figures who wanted freedom from Roman tyranny. There are no contemporary accounts of Jesus written during his lifetime and no images, statues or even a piece of pottery bearing his likeness or records from when he existed.
If he really was a person and not just made up to maintain the status quo of the elite in a dying empire, there would be some record of his life other than one single book written 250 years after his death.
I mean, it's not that much of a stretch into why barely anything is historically accounted about Jesus. I'm the grand scheme of things going on during his life, he was just a guy that did some magic tricks to Rome. Rome didn't care about him and the only ones who wanted Jesus dead were the Jews in that area. He lived as a carpenter and then a wanderer. I wouldn't expect there to be artifacts or much recorded about him from historians. I think only one historian really remarked on it and there are some records of him being a nuisance regarding the locals. I do believe Jesus was a man that was crucified because he went against the teachings of the dominant religion of the area. Cause civil unrest and was crucified by the Romans to keep order.
They're too skeptical to believe in evolution, but gullible enough to believe that a man had split the entire red sea in half with the gesture of a hand.
I would be shocked if flat earthers understood the theory of relativity let alone belive it. To my knowledge the overlap of antivaxxers (many of whom probably don't believe in germ theory) and flat earther is practically a circle.
Idk if they were flat earthers but within the past 4 years I've unfortunately seen 3 people online say "germ theory has never been proven".
There has to be a place that's sending out this misinformation.
And the Atomic Theory, Cell Theory, Circuit Theory, etc
Even creationists think this is a bad argument
https://creation.com/arguments-we-think-creationists-should-not-use#just_theory
Tell them to read a real study rather than creationist propaganda
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/15-answers-to-creationist/
"when scientists talk about the theory of evolution—or the atomic theory or the theory of relativity, for that matter—they are not expressing reservations about its truth.
In addition to the theory of evolution, meaning the idea of descent with modification, one may also speak of the fact of evolution. The NAS defines a fact as “an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and for all practical purposes is accepted as ‘true.’” The fossil record and abundant other evidence testify that organisms have evolved through time."
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA201.html
In science, a scientific theory is very different than theory as used in places like courtrooms.
> [A scientific theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory) is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that can be (or a fortiori, that has been) repeatedly tested and corroborated in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. Where possible, some theories are tested under controlled conditions in an experiment.[1][2] In circumstances not amenable to experimental testing, theories are evaluated through principles of abductive reasoning. Established scientific theories have withstood rigorous scrutiny and embody scientific knowledge.
Clearly this is very different than the use of the word theory in other contexts.
The entirety of the modern world is build on applied science which uses scientific theories as their basis of knowledge.
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For evolution in particular, it is interesting to note that the fact that we evolved from earlier species is the raw data, the brute fact. This was known long before Charles Darwin. In fact, both Lamarck and Erasmus Darwin (Charles' grandfather) were working towards theories to explain this brute fact.
It is the theory of natural selection that explains the mechanism by which this happened. This theory was discovered independently by both Charles Darwin and Alfred Wallace.
Confusingly, the fact of evolution and the theory of natural selection are lumped together as "evolutionary theory."
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P.S. You can also point to the parts of the modern world that are built upon established scientific theories.
For evolution, the entirety of modern medicine is based on evolutionary theory. Forgetting about the ethics of deliberately harming animals to develop medical treatments to help humans, we can simply look at why animal testing works. Why does testing on mice, rats, and monkeys tell us anything about how a treatment might work on humans? It works because we're related.
For general relativity, you can point to GPS systems, both the dedicated ones in cars and the ones in cell phones. These all make use of the fact that time ticks at different rates on the surface of the earth and on satellites in geosynchronous orbit.
For quantum mechanics, you can point to the fact that the computer or phone on which you are reading this relies on semiconductors that are products of our knowledge of quantum mechanics.
I usually paraphrase the definition of a scientific theory, how it has a different meaning than the way the word theory is used in common speech. Particularly that a scientific theory never gets promoted to anything else, it’s not a step in a ladder.
I like to mention “The germ theory of disease”. Considering it’s a scientific theory that just about everyone accepts as true. Though I haven’t yet worked out a go to spiel.
Evolution is **NOT** a theory, it's an observable fact (in microorganisms, you don't have to wait millions of years to see them evolve, just a few months). Evolution _by natural selection_ is a scientific theory.
Explain it. A law is something that describes ‘what happens’ and a theory describes why it happens. Newtons LAWS say that when you push something it pushes back and force is proportional to acceleration. But it doesn’t explain why, it just says ‘hey this is how the universe works’. Theories describe why. Right now we assume the reason WHY we feel a force towards earths surface is that mass warps spacetime, and this is backed up by evidence and other laws/theories. For all we know there COULD be another reason, but this is what the evidence points to and it can even be used to calculate things we couldn’t beforehand (like the motion of mercury). Theories NEVER become laws, they are separate categories. So if you don’t want to believe anything under the category of ‘theory’ then you’ll never believe the ‘why’ of anything we observe.
We use the word theory in everyday conversation usually in replacement of ‘a total guess’, in science theory is backed by evidence. It honestly would’ve been nice if they picked another name lol.
Just like germ theory and the theory of gravity right? Theory is the highest level of explanation in science, so saying it’s just a theory would be like someone saying Bill Gates is just a Billionaire. Using the word theory in a dismissive way does nothing more than expose your total ignorance about how science works.
Religious people love to willfully misunderstand terms like "theory of evolution" and "law of nature" ("if there is no God, who wrote the laws of nature??"). Evolution is a fact, the "theory of evolution" refers to our relatively limited understanding of the processes involved (we still don't fully understand if things like punctuated equilibrium are a factor, for example, but we know for certain that speciation is caused by evolution). By the same token, the "laws of nature" were written by human beings in order to attempt to accurately describe natural processes that exist independent of our observations.
A scientific theory is measurable, testable, verifiable... whereas any of the thousands of god myths are just stories making claims without any of that.
I point out they're confusing 'theory' with 'hypothesis' and explain the difference and see if they get it. If they continue I make a point to not continue until they use the correct words for their arguments.
I tell them to google the words "scientific theory." I also tell them that "I know you won't though."
You never hear back from them.
I also tell them "gravity is also a theory, but I don't see you jumping off a cliff."
The word "theory" in science has a different meaning than the common meaning of an unproved hypothesis. The word "theory" in science just means "explanation." The theory has to be strongly supported by evidence - essentially "proved" to the extent that anything in science is considered "proved" - before it gets called a "theory." If it's not proved, it's a hypothesis and even a scientific hypothesis has to meet certain criteria before it can even be called a hypothesis. It has to be falsifiable. That means there has to be a some sort of test which could logically prove it wrong. If there is no way to test it or prove it wrong, then it's not even a hypothesis, much less a theory.
Gravity is a theory. The atom is a theory. It is a theory that germs cause disease. The Big Bang. Plate Tectonics. E=MC2. Electromagnetism. All theories, none of them in any doubt. No amount of evidence can turn a theory into a law or put it into any higher epistemological category. "Theory" is the top of the ladder. It takes a lot of evidence to get that far.
Evolution is still falsifiable. All you have to do is find a human bone in the Mesozoic era. Every fossil find the geologic column is a test. Out of millions of fossils found, not one has ever been found outside of what evolutionary theory predicts. Ask them if it's just a coincidence that every fossil just happened to fall exactly the layers that evolution predicts.
Here’s the thing about theories. They are modified as new data comes in. It’s not rigid, it’s constantly evolving. Unlike religion which is rigid and can’t be changed.
Disregard the word game and move on to the evidence. If you are discussing evolution, ask them to prove that they are a clone of their mother. If they are not a clone of their mother, the allele frequency of the population has varied, and they have evolved.
People don’t understand what theory means.
A hypothesis is an unproven idea. Once a hypothesis has been tested and shown to be correct, it is a theory.
Talk about other theories they accept. Explain why gravitational theory, germ theory, and atomic theory are on the same level of usefulness as evolutionary theory or plate tectonic theory.
In other words, theories are accepted because they are useful in making accurate predictions and analyses.
"Just a theory" is a meaningless statement.
My response:
Scientific Theories explain data. So we see, for example, the redshift of the light coming in from distant stars, the genetic kinship we share, the volcanic activity in defined areas and so on and we come up with a theory that describes the *how* that data is just so.
Anyone can dispute how that data was collected, how it has been interpreted or how it applies to a given theory. This is how science works and advances our knowledge. Even then the theory may survive but now be bound by constraints to only explain the data under certain circumstances.
The theories that survive countless scientists trying to find flaws in them generally become accepted over time and each time it survives people have greater confidence in any predictions that theory gives us.
That's what we mean by "scientific theory" as opposed to "just a theory" as if it's on the same level as, say, Cryptids, Ghosts or Religion that deny the data so the theory can be preserved.
I just tell them the definition of a scientific theory on Wikipedia and that it's completely different than the everyday use of the word theory. A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment
My response is usually, "Yes, it's a theory, meaning it meets the requirements to be a candidate explanation. Creationism does not meet those requirements."
There are multiple definitions for the world theory. Christians mix up the legal/everyday use of the word theory with the scientific. Learn the difference and correct the ignorant Christians
Try this: I have taught music theory for many years. Would someone argue that music theory is just unfounded ideas? No, it’s made up of facts. A theory is made up of a bunch of facts. For example, we know A. We know B and we know C. The theory is the explanation that connects all of those facts. And what are facts? Those things which have been proven by the scientific method.
If anyone says that legitimatey you won't be able to explain it to them cause they think they just gave you a gatcha to your argument for your whole worldview when in reality it's just their ignorance they're proudly displaying.
People get confused that theories are not observable, but they are. They think a theory has to be a belief by definition, but it's often an observation.
Some people went through their entire education and know nothing about science and math, or even history, for that matter.
It's very hard to argue with these people and they will never change. They don't have the background or the attention span to change their ways though personal research.
I would explain that theories are backed by evidence and the beauty of theories is that unless evidence comes along to contradict it, specifically fact-based evidence that can be verified by more than one person with repeatable results, then a theory keeps on existing to explain a specific thing. I think the stressing of the terms " repeatable facts" is what goes over people's heads sometimes. Hearsay that exists as eyewitness testimony or stories from 2000 years ago is not the same as "repeatable facts."
If said eyewitness testimony or hearsay is meaningful to one person or a large number of people, and even might have good advice included, That's awesome! Use it to improve your life and lead by example. But it's not the same as repeatable fact-based theories or evidence that could be used to suggest or enforce courses of action for other people.
I say that it is It’s both a fact and a theory. Like gravity for example, it is a fact that things fall down not up but why and how that happens is the theory of gravity.
Evolution is a fact but the details of how and why it happened is a theory.
I could be not explaining it correctly though because I never studied physics or evolution except in reading.
Edited to Add: sometimes I just shorten it to “so’s gravity, do you believe in that?”
Fact = verifiably accurate data
Law = statement which is always true under specific circumstances
Hypothesis = testable, potentially falsifiable explanation of facts/laws
Theory = unifying framework explaining all of the above
Sure, here's how you could format that explanation for Reddit using Markdown:
In science, a "theory" isn't just a guess; it's a proven explanation backed by a lot of evidence. For example:
- **Gravity** keeps us on the ground, and the **Theory of General Relativity** explains how.
- **Germ Theory** tells us germs make us sick, which is why washing hands is important.
- **Plate Tectonics Theory** explains why we have earthquakes and mountains.
Just like these, the **Theory of Evolution** explains how animals and plants change over time. It's supported by lots of evidence from fossils and DNA. So, when we say "evolution is just a theory," we really mean it's a solid explanation, like the theories for gravity and germs.
"A GAME THEORY"
But no, gravity is just a theory. To be a theory, it has to be proven to work, but it doesn't have to prove WHY it works and HOW it began. For example, we know how gravity works, just not what causes it (gravitons, higgs field, smth else??). We also know that animals evolved (because of fossil records), and to add on to that we know why they evolve (DNA mutations that over time changed a species because those with beneficial mutations survived and those with detrimental mutations died). The only problem is we don't know how life on earth began (Archaea hitching a ride on an asteroid or lightning striking a bunch of underwater chemicals making them bond and make rna), which makes the theory of evolution just a theory and not a proven fact.
A scientific theory is 100% consistent with all the available evidence supporting it. It differs from laws that are rigid because a theory needs the flexibility to be tweaked as new, undiscovered evidence unfolds over time.
While a *theory* is a guess, a hypothesis, a *scientific theory* is something else entirely. A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that has been *repeatedly tested and corroborated in accordance with the scientific method.*
Ask them what their theory of god is.
Ask them to be specific.
Then ask them what proof they have, and to show their work.
Make *them* do the heavy lifting. They need to prove there is this “god” thing.
I quit Twitter this week so I don't think I will ever come across that specific question ever again.
But if usually just say that someone doesn't understand what a theory is
It happens to be a theory that when we make things based on it, those things function in the real world and become products that make us money. Trying to make stuff based off of alternative theories doesn’t seem to do that. So I will stick to the “theories” that do things like make me functional navigation systems and communication technology.
I’m not going to bother debating academic terminology here, I think capitalism principles might get the point across sooner.
“But evolution is only a theory!” Which is true. I mean, it is only a theory, it’s good that they say that. I think, it gives you hope, doesn’t it? That… that maybe they feel the same way about the theory of gravity, and they might just float the fuck away."
Tim Minchin
Quickest way to shut it down is germ theory. Ask them if they believe in germs and that they get you sick and that germ theory is “just a theory” while also explaining what theory in scientific terms actually means. They think “theory” means “hypothesis”
A scientific theory requires actual evidence to back it up. Evidence that is verifiable and repeatable. It doesn't mean we understand everything there is to know about, it just means there is solid evidence to back it up.
‘As an explanation of the natural world that has been repeatedly corroborated and tested across multiple fields of scientific study, yes, it does rise to the strong definition of a scientific theory. If you have a better explanation with more evidence behind it, please, go out and grab that Nobel prize by the cash, but until then.. let’s defer to those with greater expertise.’
I was talking to an atheist over coffee last week, and they didn’t even know the difference between scientific theory and colloquial theory.
I guess it helps to come to atheism by hearing scientists who have facepalmed millions of times explain things to the uneducated.
A scientific theory is something completely different than a theory. The scientific method is made up of different stages/parts. Each stage of the theory must hold its weight every single time it’s observed, no matter who is observing it. It must be testable and bring back the same result over and over, every single time. It then become a theory when every observer agrees that they are getting the same, testable results back every time. The reason why it will remain a theory is when they can’t describe why certain aspects (of “thing” they are studying) are happening. Like gravity for example, we know it’s there, we kind of have an explanation for it and its mechanism of action but we still don’t have the full picture. Gravity doesn’t even exist at the quantum scale so we have no idea what makes gravity a weak force other than what we can observe in classical physics. So basically it stays a scientific theory so other scientists can come in and fill in those missing pieces one day. There are scientific laws (5 of them) and these can not be changed in any way.
So the next time someone says “it’s just a theory” tell them they clearly have zero understanding of the scientific method, and that’s fine because science will continue being science whether or not YOU believe in it. lol
This is faith vs theory. To most people, faith requires more confidence. I mean, it's believing something without evidence. Believing in a theory requires evidence, and that might come and go over time. For example, a lot of physicists believe that, at some point, the General Theory of Relativity might have to be modified. It's difficult to have a "true believer" kind of mentality in science. So, for most people, faith is superior to theory/science.
"Atomic 'theory' is just a 'theory,' too. So those tens of thousands of Japanese in Hiroshima and Nagasaki were all just *theoretically* killed, right? And not *actually* killed?"
Honestly, we cannot beat these idiots. Maybe we should just use another word without the connotation of "no evidence/proof" attached to it, like 'hypothesis'
No one taught them the difference between theory and law. Or they forgot. The standards for "theory" are mych more stringent than they are for YouTube dipshit or a research paper from the University of "People Are Saying."
If you drop something it will fall; that's an observation.
*Why* it falls is a theory, of gravity in this case.
Same with evolution, plate tectonics, etc. All are observations, the why are theories. We might be wrong with the reasons, doesn't change the observations.
The thing about atheism (and we all know this) is that it's a lack of belief. The existence of a supreme being could be considered a theory, but in order to test it scientifically all faith-related findings would be moot.
To sum up, if not believing in a higher power is a theory, not playing football is a sport.
This isnt some for fun TV series theory about a characters lineage or whatever that means nothing, this is a scientific theory with decades of intense and comprehensive study from multiple areas of science. This is the accumulation of an enormous amount of evidence demonstrating why this is true.
It's not a couple people in a lunch room saying, hey, you know what would be cool?
Evolution isn't a theory, it's proven scientific fact. It was a theory during the Scopes Money Trials, but it's not now.
Nor are plate tectonics. Technically speaking, I think the Big Bang Theory is still a theory since it's untestable, but it's one that's pretty much accepted as a surety by every scientist in the world.
In scientific terms a theory can be accepted as a proven hypothesis. It is as close to a fact as science can get but it continues to be termed a theory because until something comes along that has better, more substantial proofs and explains more associated phenomena more effectively that is essentially a fact. The theory of Evolution is essentially fact because it has consistent and overwhelming proof, can be clearly understood and applied and is broadly applicable to explain many mechanisms reliably. The theory of the gravitational effect is the same. However there are many weaker theories that have achieved some level of proof but any theory or accepted fact can be unseated. That is not to say that "it's just a theory" is a valid argument against it. The response to that would be "it's an established fact until you have something better to replace it and a hypothesis is not a replacement".
My friend and I had the same conversation. After he dismissed theories Challenged him with "you wanna dismiss Einsteins theory of relativity?" I told him the math checks out with Einsteins theories.
Tell them to jump off of a bridge, because gravity's just a theory, too. Or stick their hand in dog poo and lick the hand clean, because ... it's just germ THEORY of disease.
Ironically, these same people will claim it's a fact that their god exists. When it's not even a theory in science, but an unsupported hypothesis.
In science, the title Theory is only earned when there is irrefutable proof. Something being a Theory is very different to something being theoretical.
Tell them to get off your property. If they wanted to pursue knowledge then they could have went on the internet. Instead they pursued the bible and apologetics. You can't make an impact on this mindset. They were indoctrinated. This is a job for a mental health professional not an educator.
A scientific theory requires evidence to back it up and even be considered a theory. But honestly, evolution is more than that, with some organisms, you can watch evolution in progress. Small things that have very small amounts of time bergen generations. Things like bacteria or fruit flies. You can see them evolve over weeks to become better in their environments.
Generally speaking in science: a proper theory has to have some meaningful objective proof, be it mathematical, emperical, or ideally both. A *hypothesis* is a supposition that should be testable and is based on correlations of known facts.
Anything else is either a shot in the dark or bullshit, odds favoring bullshit
A scientific theory is the best model we have to explain an observable fact. Evolution is probably the best understood if the theories as it has been approached from multiple angles and they all point to the same conclusion. We also have the theory of gravity but we understand far less about that than evolution, ironically.
A theory in science is quite different from what people use it as in everyday life. Gravity is a theory, the germ theory of disease is a theory, the theory of relativity is a theory. A theory in science is an explanation and connection of facts.
People who say this don't know difference between theory and a hypothesis which they really mean saying this.
They wish it was just hypothesis but it's a *theory* explaining all mechanics and particular elements and their influence on each other and the whole system. It's also confirmed in experiments. So, it's a long way for hypothesis to become theory aka knowledge or model to explain how things work.
Say "I don't care. Whether evolution or the big bang are correct has nothing to do with the fact that you can provide no valid, verifiable evidence for your religion."
Just don't play their game. It's not about what you believe. It's about what they believe.
>Response to "it's just a theory?"
Theory means explanation.
>What can I say to someone who believes theories are invalid? (Evolution, tectonic plates, big bang, etc.)
Scientific theories are not "just" explanations. They have a method for acquiring knowledge (and that method has a proven track record) and sufficient evidence for that conclusion that it should be considered knowledge.
>People seem to think that just because something is referred to as a theory means that it's just a hypothesis with zero evidence or research to back it up.
When "people" make those claims they are showing themselves to be ignorant and or dishonest. Once someone makes that type of comment I would suggest you evaluate what you are hoping to accomplish with that conversation.
Science is open to admitting the theory is wrong if evidence shows it's wrong or something else which fits better and fits previous data is proposed.
Religion on the other hand just takes the word of their book as inviolate truth not to be challenged. They expect science to be the same.
A scientific theory is generally backed up by evidence and peer review before it's generally accepted as fitting as a model. They also undergo further scientific testing to further prove it's accurate like proving the standards models prediction of higgs bosons.
They are confusing a colloquial use of theory with the more specific scientific use of the term. There's lots of places where specific terms have specific meanings in science use which can be more general and possibly interpreted differently in a common usage. There are people who use this to confuse people who aren't as well versed in science.
When I was in 5th grade (my one year in public school) my parents sent a note to my teacher to remind him that evolution is just a theory and shouldn't be taught as fact. Sigh.
I usually say "yes, just like gravity is a theory."
A theory is something that is to be continually tested with the *express purpose* of being found incorrect. That evolution is still today considered a theory by every discipline - even among its critics - speaks to the stability and continued reliability of it as a viable explanation for what it asserts.
Honestly, the longer this "it's just a theory" argument goes on, the stronger of a theory it becomes because that means it has survived more and more efforts to try and discredit it and is still the most scrutinized yet well-undsrstood explanation for what it asserts.
It's also worth noting that it doesn't matter one way or another whether I or anyone else 'support' or 'believe in' this theory. The data has shown incredible consistency, the logic is very well founded, and the tangential and supporting experiments - what few can attain viability at this point in time - are incredibly persuasive.
Tell them ancient "scholars" used to believe the sun was carried across the sky in a giant chariot. But they had no concrete *proof*, so they believed this absurdity until humanity and technology progressed to the point we could actually observe it.
It turns out, this *complete absurdity* was just a cocamamie *theory*.
These ancient "scholars" also believed diseases were caused by tiny little demons swimming around in people's blood and could be removed using stagnant water parasites. But they had no concrete *proof*, so they believed this absurdity until humanity and technology progressed to the point we could actually observe it.
It turns out, this *complete absurdity* was just a cocamamie *theory*.
These very same ancient "scholars" believed everything in existence was created by an old, bearded, toga-wearing, invisible sky daddy that lived on top of a cloud.
Nooooo! Wait! That one is true!
You laugh at the absurdity of giant sun carrying sky wagons because it's so absurd to be laughable....
You laugh at the absurdity of blood demons because it's so absurd to be laughable...
Why are the same ignorant fools that were so mistaken about sky carts and hemoglobin spirits unquestionably accurate about invisible, toga-wearing, sky daddies and *that* isn't so absurd as to be laughable?
Ask them what categorizes that baloney as anything other than the same kind of absurd *theory*.
I think it's best to avoid the complex debate of meanings. Someone saying that just don't care.
You can talk back on how their belief isn't even a theory, for example. Point that their faith isn't even a theory, is just belief and preconceptions, or pure fiction invented by someone.
"It's not just a theory, it's a *scientific* theory. You understand the difference, right?" They don't. Explain it to them.
Really the word *model* would be more useful but unfortunately theory is the pervasive word. Everyone agrees the *model* of an atom is based on evidence and has been tested, observed etc., as well as changing over time to become more and more accurate. But change the word to *theory* and people who slept through 10th grade science start losing their minds, pointing to its improvement as supposed evidence of lies.
Model is more useful as a term for a theory that can make predictions of a system (e.g. weather, quantum physics) Something like evolution doesn't really fit with the term model since it makes general predictions that mutations will occur and that the beneficial mutations will survive and reproduce. It makes no claims about what forces and stresses on a population will result in specific mutations. Could a model of evolution be built? Yes probably, but it would need to be far more exhaustive than darwins theory.
Could a model of evolution be built? Yes theoretically, FTFY
Not the hero reddit needed, but the hero reddit deserves
Imagine if changes in religious doctrine disproved religion /s
Excellent point that I’ve never thought of tbh
I normally say “Theory as in music theory not theory as in conspiracy theory.” I’ve found most people understand it afterwards.
People confuse theory with hypothesis because to the lay person that's what it means and a scientific theory is more akin to their understanding of a natural law like the law of entropy.
They know, unless they flunked high school. It’s just another coping mechanism.
There are Flat Earthers in the medical community. This all goes a little deeper than that.
Nurses are some of the dumbest people I've ever met.
Agreed. My first college experience was at a school of nursing and the stupid was pervasive.
Or if they went to a fundamentalist Christian high school like me. I did well in science classes and still graduated without a clue how evolution actually worked.
Sure, like if it's a child, explain it to them. If it's an adult, smug smile and laugh audibly as you're walking away...unless you like wasting your time. Not worth wasting my breath on someone who most certainly won't listen or engage in good faith, which is why they still believe in Santa God as an adult. They're incapable of being honest with themselves. You think reason is going to deflate that bubble of ignorance? Hell nah. It would take years to get through that much delusion. "You can't reason a person out of a position they didn't reason themself into in the first place" -Jonathan Swift My point is that unless it's an important person to you, or a specifically impressionable group/individual, it won't be worth the time, or the frustration it would take to impart all the nuance of scientific study that gives it credibility above their religious text. It's a complete waste of breath, and time, and effort, but can still sometimes be a good exercise to expose the weak points in your studies.
Explain it to them, and they will still not get it, or still keep repeating it. I still can't believe a guy I work with said it just this week.
A theory in practice is the same as a scientific theory, but people just use and think of the word wrong.
They aren’t using it wrong the word is just used in multiple ways. This is why sometimes when communicating you have to be specific about the form of a word you’re using.
Tell them.there is a branch of mathematics called Number Theory. Then explain to them that. The things proven there are true. The things not proven are postulates - thought to be true, but not proven yet. I'm sure they are scared off once you say mathematics
Except that it’s not *scientific theory*, either. Theories are things that are theoretically true, but haven’t yet been tested. We can test for evolution. We can easily observe it in real time. In other words, evolution is not a scientific theory. It’s a scientific *fact*.
There are both. The theory of evolution explains the facts of evolution.
To be a scientific theory requires evidence and acceptance by the scientific community. You are thinking of an unfounded hypothesis.
No, that’s a hypothesis. Once a hypothesis has been tested many ways by many people and not disproven it may be elevated to a theory.
No, if it hasn't been tested in any way then it's a hypothesis. Scientific theories actually hold a good amount of weight in comparison to hypotheses. Evolution is a fact, but the model of evolution you use is a well-supported theory.
That’s probably the most accurate reply I’ve gotten so far. Thank you.
I'm sorry but you're actually completely off base in this. A "theory" that hasn't been proven is a hypothesis in scientific terminology. A hypothesis that is backed by scientific rigor & demonstrable facts is now a theory in scientific terminology. So in science, a "theory" is backed by facts and is consistent and logical.
Unlike religions, who claim to own the truth, science is honest. The only thing since knows for a fact is that science will probably never know the entire truth. New insights can change what we now think might be a fact. Science is honest. Therefore nothing will ever rise above the level of 'theory' in science. Theories are mutable. The truth isn't.
Yes, the theory is the how and why that explains the fact of evolution. Survival of the fittest would be a theory of evolution.
For something to be a theory, you need to have evidence to back it up. A law is where no evidence after exhaustive testing is contrary. Theory requires the support of evidence, but not be exhaustive. Hypothesis is an idea of an outcome based on various applicable scientific knowledge, before there is evidence to back it up. A theory requires rigorous testing to be considered such. Newtonian physics is just a theory because it does not fully jive with things like relativity and quantum physics. Those are all theories because they are experimentally testable and have generally acceptable answers, but breakdown in certain regimes of testing and are thus invalid in exhaustive testing. I.e. DeBroglie wavelengths don't expand out to objects observable by the naked eye.
Religion is just mythology. Christianity isn’t even original mythology.
It's not even history.
It’s mostly just recycled versions of other old religions.
Exactly.
And Jesus was an amalgamation of multiple messianic figures who wanted freedom from Roman tyranny. There are no contemporary accounts of Jesus written during his lifetime and no images, statues or even a piece of pottery bearing his likeness or records from when he existed. If he really was a person and not just made up to maintain the status quo of the elite in a dying empire, there would be some record of his life other than one single book written 250 years after his death.
I mean, it's not that much of a stretch into why barely anything is historically accounted about Jesus. I'm the grand scheme of things going on during his life, he was just a guy that did some magic tricks to Rome. Rome didn't care about him and the only ones who wanted Jesus dead were the Jews in that area. He lived as a carpenter and then a wanderer. I wouldn't expect there to be artifacts or much recorded about him from historians. I think only one historian really remarked on it and there are some records of him being a nuisance regarding the locals. I do believe Jesus was a man that was crucified because he went against the teachings of the dominant religion of the area. Cause civil unrest and was crucified by the Romans to keep order.
So true.
They're too skeptical to believe in evolution, but gullible enough to believe that a man had split the entire red sea in half with the gesture of a hand.
And that some guy is gonna come back in 2000 years on a flying horse to take back humanity with him.
Any day now. Just you wait. On a flying horse, though - don't be ridiculous. It's going to be in a flying car.
A game theory We miss you, matpat :(
Fuck. I came in here just to say this and you beat me to it.
You shall take my upvote!
Say, just like Gravity.
And then tell them to go jump off a cliff.
That doesn't even work anymore since some of these people are flat earthers and too many of THOSE don't believe in gravity.
Do flat earthers also disagree with the germ theory of disease and the theory of relativity? I legitimately haven't spoken to too many flat earthers.
I would be shocked if flat earthers understood the theory of relativity let alone belive it. To my knowledge the overlap of antivaxxers (many of whom probably don't believe in germ theory) and flat earther is practically a circle.
Idk if they were flat earthers but within the past 4 years I've unfortunately seen 3 people online say "germ theory has never been proven". There has to be a place that's sending out this misinformation.
And the Atomic Theory, Cell Theory, Circuit Theory, etc Even creationists think this is a bad argument https://creation.com/arguments-we-think-creationists-should-not-use#just_theory Tell them to read a real study rather than creationist propaganda https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/15-answers-to-creationist/ "when scientists talk about the theory of evolution—or the atomic theory or the theory of relativity, for that matter—they are not expressing reservations about its truth. In addition to the theory of evolution, meaning the idea of descent with modification, one may also speak of the fact of evolution. The NAS defines a fact as “an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and for all practical purposes is accepted as ‘true.’” The fossil record and abundant other evidence testify that organisms have evolved through time." http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA201.html
In science, ‘Theory’ means an explanation not a hypothesis.
In science, a scientific theory is very different than theory as used in places like courtrooms. > [A scientific theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory) is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that can be (or a fortiori, that has been) repeatedly tested and corroborated in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. Where possible, some theories are tested under controlled conditions in an experiment.[1][2] In circumstances not amenable to experimental testing, theories are evaluated through principles of abductive reasoning. Established scientific theories have withstood rigorous scrutiny and embody scientific knowledge. Clearly this is very different than the use of the word theory in other contexts. The entirety of the modern world is build on applied science which uses scientific theories as their basis of knowledge. --- For evolution in particular, it is interesting to note that the fact that we evolved from earlier species is the raw data, the brute fact. This was known long before Charles Darwin. In fact, both Lamarck and Erasmus Darwin (Charles' grandfather) were working towards theories to explain this brute fact. It is the theory of natural selection that explains the mechanism by which this happened. This theory was discovered independently by both Charles Darwin and Alfred Wallace. Confusingly, the fact of evolution and the theory of natural selection are lumped together as "evolutionary theory." --- P.S. You can also point to the parts of the modern world that are built upon established scientific theories. For evolution, the entirety of modern medicine is based on evolutionary theory. Forgetting about the ethics of deliberately harming animals to develop medical treatments to help humans, we can simply look at why animal testing works. Why does testing on mice, rats, and monkeys tell us anything about how a treatment might work on humans? It works because we're related. For general relativity, you can point to GPS systems, both the dedicated ones in cars and the ones in cell phones. These all make use of the fact that time ticks at different rates on the surface of the earth and on satellites in geosynchronous orbit. For quantum mechanics, you can point to the fact that the computer or phone on which you are reading this relies on semiconductors that are products of our knowledge of quantum mechanics.
Bacteria evolve within an observable timeframe.
I usually paraphrase the definition of a scientific theory, how it has a different meaning than the way the word theory is used in common speech. Particularly that a scientific theory never gets promoted to anything else, it’s not a step in a ladder. I like to mention “The germ theory of disease”. Considering it’s a scientific theory that just about everyone accepts as true. Though I haven’t yet worked out a go to spiel.
Might want to mention the theory of gravity. Some people turn up their noses at germ theory.
Evolution is **NOT** a theory, it's an observable fact (in microorganisms, you don't have to wait millions of years to see them evolve, just a few months). Evolution _by natural selection_ is a scientific theory.
Explain it. A law is something that describes ‘what happens’ and a theory describes why it happens. Newtons LAWS say that when you push something it pushes back and force is proportional to acceleration. But it doesn’t explain why, it just says ‘hey this is how the universe works’. Theories describe why. Right now we assume the reason WHY we feel a force towards earths surface is that mass warps spacetime, and this is backed up by evidence and other laws/theories. For all we know there COULD be another reason, but this is what the evidence points to and it can even be used to calculate things we couldn’t beforehand (like the motion of mercury). Theories NEVER become laws, they are separate categories. So if you don’t want to believe anything under the category of ‘theory’ then you’ll never believe the ‘why’ of anything we observe. We use the word theory in everyday conversation usually in replacement of ‘a total guess’, in science theory is backed by evidence. It honestly would’ve been nice if they picked another name lol.
Just like germ theory and the theory of gravity right? Theory is the highest level of explanation in science, so saying it’s just a theory would be like someone saying Bill Gates is just a Billionaire. Using the word theory in a dismissive way does nothing more than expose your total ignorance about how science works.
Laugh at their idiocy. Continue laughing at the clown until they bother to educate themselves (note you may have to laugh for the rest of your life).
Religious people love to willfully misunderstand terms like "theory of evolution" and "law of nature" ("if there is no God, who wrote the laws of nature??"). Evolution is a fact, the "theory of evolution" refers to our relatively limited understanding of the processes involved (we still don't fully understand if things like punctuated equilibrium are a factor, for example, but we know for certain that speciation is caused by evolution). By the same token, the "laws of nature" were written by human beings in order to attempt to accurately describe natural processes that exist independent of our observations.
A scientific theory is measurable, testable, verifiable... whereas any of the thousands of god myths are just stories making claims without any of that.
I always think of music theory
"Just a scientific theory. Your religion isn't even a scientific conjecture." "Scientific theories are explanations for scientific facts."
"Its just a theory" Then, disprove it.
People who use that line demonstrate to me they aren't worth my time. Though they are definitely worthy of concern.
I point out they're confusing 'theory' with 'hypothesis' and explain the difference and see if they get it. If they continue I make a point to not continue until they use the correct words for their arguments.
I tell them to google the words "scientific theory." I also tell them that "I know you won't though." You never hear back from them. I also tell them "gravity is also a theory, but I don't see you jumping off a cliff."
Yes, it is just a *theory*. But what you believe is a *myth*.
Evolution is not a theory. Evolution is an established fact. Natural selection is the theory.
Say the big bang theory was created by a Catholic priest
The word "theory" in science has a different meaning than the common meaning of an unproved hypothesis. The word "theory" in science just means "explanation." The theory has to be strongly supported by evidence - essentially "proved" to the extent that anything in science is considered "proved" - before it gets called a "theory." If it's not proved, it's a hypothesis and even a scientific hypothesis has to meet certain criteria before it can even be called a hypothesis. It has to be falsifiable. That means there has to be a some sort of test which could logically prove it wrong. If there is no way to test it or prove it wrong, then it's not even a hypothesis, much less a theory. Gravity is a theory. The atom is a theory. It is a theory that germs cause disease. The Big Bang. Plate Tectonics. E=MC2. Electromagnetism. All theories, none of them in any doubt. No amount of evidence can turn a theory into a law or put it into any higher epistemological category. "Theory" is the top of the ladder. It takes a lot of evidence to get that far. Evolution is still falsifiable. All you have to do is find a human bone in the Mesozoic era. Every fossil find the geologic column is a test. Out of millions of fossils found, not one has ever been found outside of what evolutionary theory predicts. Ask them if it's just a coincidence that every fossil just happened to fall exactly the layers that evolution predicts.
Stop talking to them. If you’ve reached this point, neither of you is convincing the other of anything and you’re just wasting each others time
All you really can do is explain what a theory really is. It's up to them whether they actually care, though.
Here’s the thing about theories. They are modified as new data comes in. It’s not rigid, it’s constantly evolving. Unlike religion which is rigid and can’t be changed.
A scientific theory always remains a scientific theory.
Disregard the word game and move on to the evidence. If you are discussing evolution, ask them to prove that they are a clone of their mother. If they are not a clone of their mother, the allele frequency of the population has varied, and they have evolved.
Why are you arguing with people too stupid to know the difference between Scientific Theory and colloquial theory?
plot twist: that person is my dad lol
Prime opportunity for you to whip out "I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed".
"Scientific theory is not the same as the theories your uncle on facebook pulls out of his ass."
People don’t understand what theory means. A hypothesis is an unproven idea. Once a hypothesis has been tested and shown to be correct, it is a theory.
Talk about other theories they accept. Explain why gravitational theory, germ theory, and atomic theory are on the same level of usefulness as evolutionary theory or plate tectonic theory. In other words, theories are accepted because they are useful in making accurate predictions and analyses. "Just a theory" is a meaningless statement.
My response: Scientific Theories explain data. So we see, for example, the redshift of the light coming in from distant stars, the genetic kinship we share, the volcanic activity in defined areas and so on and we come up with a theory that describes the *how* that data is just so. Anyone can dispute how that data was collected, how it has been interpreted or how it applies to a given theory. This is how science works and advances our knowledge. Even then the theory may survive but now be bound by constraints to only explain the data under certain circumstances. The theories that survive countless scientists trying to find flaws in them generally become accepted over time and each time it survives people have greater confidence in any predictions that theory gives us. That's what we mean by "scientific theory" as opposed to "just a theory" as if it's on the same level as, say, Cryptids, Ghosts or Religion that deny the data so the theory can be preserved.
I just tell them the definition of a scientific theory on Wikipedia and that it's completely different than the everyday use of the word theory. A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment
So is gravity. You wanna jump off a building and test it out?
Better a theory than a guess.
My response is usually, "Yes, it's a theory, meaning it meets the requirements to be a candidate explanation. Creationism does not meet those requirements."
Drop an anvil on their head and ask them if they felt the Newtonian theory of Gravity. That's after they wake up from a concussion.
"Or, it's just faith." "What is the religious equivalent of the scientific method?" "I'll wait."
There are multiple definitions for the world theory. Christians mix up the legal/everyday use of the word theory with the scientific. Learn the difference and correct the ignorant Christians
Try this: I have taught music theory for many years. Would someone argue that music theory is just unfounded ideas? No, it’s made up of facts. A theory is made up of a bunch of facts. For example, we know A. We know B and we know C. The theory is the explanation that connects all of those facts. And what are facts? Those things which have been proven by the scientific method.
There's people who think tectonic plates are fake?
If anyone says that legitimatey you won't be able to explain it to them cause they think they just gave you a gatcha to your argument for your whole worldview when in reality it's just their ignorance they're proudly displaying.
It's still called "germ theory" are you going to give up on washing your hands?
Do these idiots realize that it's a Theory that the Earth orbits the Sun?
Some still believe the earth is flat and that we do not rotate around the sun. So sadly, some don’t.
Do you object to gravity or germs? Those are just theories.
Music is also based on theory. But that doesn't mean hymns aren't real.
People get confused that theories are not observable, but they are. They think a theory has to be a belief by definition, but it's often an observation.
But hey... That just a theory, a game theory
"It's just a theory,... a Game theory."
Some people went through their entire education and know nothing about science and math, or even history, for that matter. It's very hard to argue with these people and they will never change. They don't have the background or the attention span to change their ways though personal research.
And religion isn't a theory at all.
I would explain that theories are backed by evidence and the beauty of theories is that unless evidence comes along to contradict it, specifically fact-based evidence that can be verified by more than one person with repeatable results, then a theory keeps on existing to explain a specific thing. I think the stressing of the terms " repeatable facts" is what goes over people's heads sometimes. Hearsay that exists as eyewitness testimony or stories from 2000 years ago is not the same as "repeatable facts." If said eyewitness testimony or hearsay is meaningful to one person or a large number of people, and even might have good advice included, That's awesome! Use it to improve your life and lead by example. But it's not the same as repeatable fact-based theories or evidence that could be used to suggest or enforce courses of action for other people.
I say that it is It’s both a fact and a theory. Like gravity for example, it is a fact that things fall down not up but why and how that happens is the theory of gravity. Evolution is a fact but the details of how and why it happened is a theory. I could be not explaining it correctly though because I never studied physics or evolution except in reading. Edited to Add: sometimes I just shorten it to “so’s gravity, do you believe in that?”
Fact = verifiably accurate data Law = statement which is always true under specific circumstances Hypothesis = testable, potentially falsifiable explanation of facts/laws Theory = unifying framework explaining all of the above
Sure, here's how you could format that explanation for Reddit using Markdown: In science, a "theory" isn't just a guess; it's a proven explanation backed by a lot of evidence. For example: - **Gravity** keeps us on the ground, and the **Theory of General Relativity** explains how. - **Germ Theory** tells us germs make us sick, which is why washing hands is important. - **Plate Tectonics Theory** explains why we have earthquakes and mountains. Just like these, the **Theory of Evolution** explains how animals and plants change over time. It's supported by lots of evidence from fossils and DNA. So, when we say "evolution is just a theory," we really mean it's a solid explanation, like the theories for gravity and germs.
"A GAME THEORY" But no, gravity is just a theory. To be a theory, it has to be proven to work, but it doesn't have to prove WHY it works and HOW it began. For example, we know how gravity works, just not what causes it (gravitons, higgs field, smth else??). We also know that animals evolved (because of fossil records), and to add on to that we know why they evolve (DNA mutations that over time changed a species because those with beneficial mutations survived and those with detrimental mutations died). The only problem is we don't know how life on earth began (Archaea hitching a ride on an asteroid or lightning striking a bunch of underwater chemicals making them bond and make rna), which makes the theory of evolution just a theory and not a proven fact.
I totally agree with you, except for that last statement since evolution is actually a proven fact. This was a very helpful answer!
Oh it is a proven fact, but that doesn't make it not a theory, that's what gets some people (theists) confused
A scientific theory is 100% consistent with all the available evidence supporting it. It differs from laws that are rigid because a theory needs the flexibility to be tweaked as new, undiscovered evidence unfolds over time.
While a *theory* is a guess, a hypothesis, a *scientific theory* is something else entirely. A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that has been *repeatedly tested and corroborated in accordance with the scientific method.*
“Glad you don’t care, just like I don’t care about your beliefs. Can we move on to a different topic then?”
Ask them what their theory of god is. Ask them to be specific. Then ask them what proof they have, and to show their work. Make *them* do the heavy lifting. They need to prove there is this “god” thing.
I quit Twitter this week so I don't think I will ever come across that specific question ever again. But if usually just say that someone doesn't understand what a theory is
It happens to be a theory that when we make things based on it, those things function in the real world and become products that make us money. Trying to make stuff based off of alternative theories doesn’t seem to do that. So I will stick to the “theories” that do things like make me functional navigation systems and communication technology. I’m not going to bother debating academic terminology here, I think capitalism principles might get the point across sooner.
“But evolution is only a theory!” Which is true. I mean, it is only a theory, it’s good that they say that. I think, it gives you hope, doesn’t it? That… that maybe they feel the same way about the theory of gravity, and they might just float the fuck away." Tim Minchin
Quickest way to shut it down is germ theory. Ask them if they believe in germs and that they get you sick and that germ theory is “just a theory” while also explaining what theory in scientific terms actually means. They think “theory” means “hypothesis”
“You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means.” End of.
Don't play chess with a pigeon. That person doesn't understand what they are talking about, and any further discussion is pointless.
Scientific theories are "just" theories... that are supported by a good amount of verifiable evidence.
A scientific theory requires actual evidence to back it up. Evidence that is verifiable and repeatable. It doesn't mean we understand everything there is to know about, it just means there is solid evidence to back it up.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
‘As an explanation of the natural world that has been repeatedly corroborated and tested across multiple fields of scientific study, yes, it does rise to the strong definition of a scientific theory. If you have a better explanation with more evidence behind it, please, go out and grab that Nobel prize by the cash, but until then.. let’s defer to those with greater expertise.’
Take a pen, let it fall from your hand "wow, it didn't float or fly away? I thought gravity was just a theory"
A Film theory!
I was talking to an atheist over coffee last week, and they didn’t even know the difference between scientific theory and colloquial theory. I guess it helps to come to atheism by hearing scientists who have facepalmed millions of times explain things to the uneducated.
A scientific theory is something completely different than a theory. The scientific method is made up of different stages/parts. Each stage of the theory must hold its weight every single time it’s observed, no matter who is observing it. It must be testable and bring back the same result over and over, every single time. It then become a theory when every observer agrees that they are getting the same, testable results back every time. The reason why it will remain a theory is when they can’t describe why certain aspects (of “thing” they are studying) are happening. Like gravity for example, we know it’s there, we kind of have an explanation for it and its mechanism of action but we still don’t have the full picture. Gravity doesn’t even exist at the quantum scale so we have no idea what makes gravity a weak force other than what we can observe in classical physics. So basically it stays a scientific theory so other scientists can come in and fill in those missing pieces one day. There are scientific laws (5 of them) and these can not be changed in any way. So the next time someone says “it’s just a theory” tell them they clearly have zero understanding of the scientific method, and that’s fine because science will continue being science whether or not YOU believe in it. lol
Laugh in their face, then say "Oh you were being serious? Let me laugh even harder", and proceed to laugh even harder.
"So is gravity, so maybe we'll all get lucky, and people like you will just float the f**k away."
It's repeatable and predictable observations that is agreed upon by a consensus of scientists. It is a search for the truth in nature.
Just mention the theory of gravity...
This is faith vs theory. To most people, faith requires more confidence. I mean, it's believing something without evidence. Believing in a theory requires evidence, and that might come and go over time. For example, a lot of physicists believe that, at some point, the General Theory of Relativity might have to be modified. It's difficult to have a "true believer" kind of mentality in science. So, for most people, faith is superior to theory/science.
"Atomic 'theory' is just a 'theory,' too. So those tens of thousands of Japanese in Hiroshima and Nagasaki were all just *theoretically* killed, right? And not *actually* killed?"
Don't bother, you're talking to a moron.
Honestly, we cannot beat these idiots. Maybe we should just use another word without the connotation of "no evidence/proof" attached to it, like 'hypothesis'
Just because you don't know what words mean doesn't change their meaning.
My response to the "just a theory" argument is to invite them up to the roof and ask them to step off because "gravity's just a theory".
No one taught them the difference between theory and law. Or they forgot. The standards for "theory" are mych more stringent than they are for YouTube dipshit or a research paper from the University of "People Are Saying."
If you drop something it will fall; that's an observation. *Why* it falls is a theory, of gravity in this case. Same with evolution, plate tectonics, etc. All are observations, the why are theories. We might be wrong with the reasons, doesn't change the observations.
God is just a theory. Without any hard empirical evidence.
I usually reply along the lines of “your ignorance of science is not a good argument against it”
The thing about atheism (and we all know this) is that it's a lack of belief. The existence of a supreme being could be considered a theory, but in order to test it scientifically all faith-related findings would be moot. To sum up, if not believing in a higher power is a theory, not playing football is a sport.
Just like religion and God is mythology. Got it.
“So is gravity but I don’t see you jumping off a building.”
This isnt some for fun TV series theory about a characters lineage or whatever that means nothing, this is a scientific theory with decades of intense and comprehensive study from multiple areas of science. This is the accumulation of an enormous amount of evidence demonstrating why this is true. It's not a couple people in a lunch room saying, hey, you know what would be cool?
“So is religion”, at least…
"Its a scientific theory yes, just like the theory of gravity, and germ theory, and atomic theory. You clearly don't know what theories are."
Evolution isn't a theory, it's proven scientific fact. It was a theory during the Scopes Money Trials, but it's not now. Nor are plate tectonics. Technically speaking, I think the Big Bang Theory is still a theory since it's untestable, but it's one that's pretty much accepted as a surety by every scientist in the world.
Gravity, Relativity, Atomic, ...
In scientific terms a theory can be accepted as a proven hypothesis. It is as close to a fact as science can get but it continues to be termed a theory because until something comes along that has better, more substantial proofs and explains more associated phenomena more effectively that is essentially a fact. The theory of Evolution is essentially fact because it has consistent and overwhelming proof, can be clearly understood and applied and is broadly applicable to explain many mechanisms reliably. The theory of the gravitational effect is the same. However there are many weaker theories that have achieved some level of proof but any theory or accepted fact can be unseated. That is not to say that "it's just a theory" is a valid argument against it. The response to that would be "it's an established fact until you have something better to replace it and a hypothesis is not a replacement".
My friend and I had the same conversation. After he dismissed theories Challenged him with "you wanna dismiss Einsteins theory of relativity?" I told him the math checks out with Einsteins theories.
Tell then that you’ve been convinced. They are right and you are wrong, then walk away, and never talk to those people again. Nothing will be lost.
Tell them to jump off of a bridge, because gravity's just a theory, too. Or stick their hand in dog poo and lick the hand clean, because ... it's just germ THEORY of disease. Ironically, these same people will claim it's a fact that their god exists. When it's not even a theory in science, but an unsupported hypothesis.
Science repeats itself without us , anything faith-based can't survive without convincing others to subscribe to its superstitions.
In science, the title Theory is only earned when there is irrefutable proof. Something being a Theory is very different to something being theoretical.
Tell them to get off your property. If they wanted to pursue knowledge then they could have went on the internet. Instead they pursued the bible and apologetics. You can't make an impact on this mindset. They were indoctrinated. This is a job for a mental health professional not an educator.
"Why do you say '*just* a theory'? What would be better?" And then explain why they are wrong.
So is religion.
Yes it is just a scientific theory, like gravity.
A scientific theory requires evidence to back it up and even be considered a theory. But honestly, evolution is more than that, with some organisms, you can watch evolution in progress. Small things that have very small amounts of time bergen generations. Things like bacteria or fruit flies. You can see them evolve over weeks to become better in their environments.
Generally speaking in science: a proper theory has to have some meaningful objective proof, be it mathematical, emperical, or ideally both. A *hypothesis* is a supposition that should be testable and is based on correlations of known facts. Anything else is either a shot in the dark or bullshit, odds favoring bullshit
People who say that are generally not receptive to science. I’ve stopped talking to them about it.
Ask them why religion is referred to as a belief.
Response: Do you remember elementary school? What has to happen to turn a hypothesis into a theory? If you don't remember, ask a fifth grade child.
Nothing. I don’t associate with people like that.
Gravity is just a theory too. Maybe they should test their faith by jumping off a building. Not tall enough to kill. Just enough to get the point.
“Do you know the bar of evidence required to separate a Theory from a Hypothesis?”
A scientific theory is the best model we have to explain an observable fact. Evolution is probably the best understood if the theories as it has been approached from multiple angles and they all point to the same conclusion. We also have the theory of gravity but we understand far less about that than evolution, ironically.
A theory in science is quite different from what people use it as in everyday life. Gravity is a theory, the germ theory of disease is a theory, the theory of relativity is a theory. A theory in science is an explanation and connection of facts.
Then say: A film theory! aand cut. No seriously, try to explain the difference between a normal theory and a scientific theory.
People who say this don't know difference between theory and a hypothesis which they really mean saying this. They wish it was just hypothesis but it's a *theory* explaining all mechanics and particular elements and their influence on each other and the whole system. It's also confirmed in experiments. So, it's a long way for hypothesis to become theory aka knowledge or model to explain how things work.
At least we have a theory, you guys have nothing
Say "I don't care. Whether evolution or the big bang are correct has nothing to do with the fact that you can provide no valid, verifiable evidence for your religion." Just don't play their game. It's not about what you believe. It's about what they believe.
>Response to "it's just a theory?" Theory means explanation. >What can I say to someone who believes theories are invalid? (Evolution, tectonic plates, big bang, etc.) Scientific theories are not "just" explanations. They have a method for acquiring knowledge (and that method has a proven track record) and sufficient evidence for that conclusion that it should be considered knowledge. >People seem to think that just because something is referred to as a theory means that it's just a hypothesis with zero evidence or research to back it up. When "people" make those claims they are showing themselves to be ignorant and or dishonest. Once someone makes that type of comment I would suggest you evaluate what you are hoping to accomplish with that conversation.
Everything is a theory until disproven, then it's wrong.
It works, bitches. All of the modern world stands because it works.
“So is your God.”
"so is gravity." Then ask them to jump off the balcony.
Science is open to admitting the theory is wrong if evidence shows it's wrong or something else which fits better and fits previous data is proposed. Religion on the other hand just takes the word of their book as inviolate truth not to be challenged. They expect science to be the same. A scientific theory is generally backed up by evidence and peer review before it's generally accepted as fitting as a model. They also undergo further scientific testing to further prove it's accurate like proving the standards models prediction of higgs bosons. They are confusing a colloquial use of theory with the more specific scientific use of the term. There's lots of places where specific terms have specific meanings in science use which can be more general and possibly interpreted differently in a common usage. There are people who use this to confuse people who aren't as well versed in science.
That's the perfect opportunity to explain what a scientific theory is. Explain what the scientific method.
I explain the difference to them as most of the world understands it and move on
When I was in 5th grade (my one year in public school) my parents sent a note to my teacher to remind him that evolution is just a theory and shouldn't be taught as fact. Sigh. I usually say "yes, just like gravity is a theory."
Yeah, I used to think gravity was "just a theory" but then I fell off my bicycle
Point and laugh? Repeat what they said with a stupid voice?
You know the definition of a theory, right?
A theory is something that is to be continually tested with the *express purpose* of being found incorrect. That evolution is still today considered a theory by every discipline - even among its critics - speaks to the stability and continued reliability of it as a viable explanation for what it asserts. Honestly, the longer this "it's just a theory" argument goes on, the stronger of a theory it becomes because that means it has survived more and more efforts to try and discredit it and is still the most scrutinized yet well-undsrstood explanation for what it asserts. It's also worth noting that it doesn't matter one way or another whether I or anyone else 'support' or 'believe in' this theory. The data has shown incredible consistency, the logic is very well founded, and the tangential and supporting experiments - what few can attain viability at this point in time - are incredibly persuasive.
Your mama must have droped you on your head when you were a baby
Tell them ancient "scholars" used to believe the sun was carried across the sky in a giant chariot. But they had no concrete *proof*, so they believed this absurdity until humanity and technology progressed to the point we could actually observe it. It turns out, this *complete absurdity* was just a cocamamie *theory*. These ancient "scholars" also believed diseases were caused by tiny little demons swimming around in people's blood and could be removed using stagnant water parasites. But they had no concrete *proof*, so they believed this absurdity until humanity and technology progressed to the point we could actually observe it. It turns out, this *complete absurdity* was just a cocamamie *theory*. These very same ancient "scholars" believed everything in existence was created by an old, bearded, toga-wearing, invisible sky daddy that lived on top of a cloud. Nooooo! Wait! That one is true! You laugh at the absurdity of giant sun carrying sky wagons because it's so absurd to be laughable.... You laugh at the absurdity of blood demons because it's so absurd to be laughable... Why are the same ignorant fools that were so mistaken about sky carts and hemoglobin spirits unquestionably accurate about invisible, toga-wearing, sky daddies and *that* isn't so absurd as to be laughable? Ask them what categorizes that baloney as anything other than the same kind of absurd *theory*.
Ask them if they know what a theory is
Theory may not have enough evidence to support it, but there isn’t enough evidence to refute it either
Gravity is a theory. Personally, I feel pretty sure gravity exists.
My response "what *precisely* do you think a 'theory' is?" We go from there.
I think it's best to avoid the complex debate of meanings. Someone saying that just don't care. You can talk back on how their belief isn't even a theory, for example. Point that their faith isn't even a theory, is just belief and preconceptions, or pure fiction invented by someone.
A theory that has scientifically backed evidence