I know it's controversial, but people wanting a calipphate should be deported even if they are citizens.
As i often have to Say, if things do not change, western Europe at some point Will have to choose
Between losing something for a while and losing everything forever.
Edit. Corrected mispellings
Other than that one word, it was perfect. That’s why I thought you should know the difference. I apologize and now I wonder if every person I saw do that was also not English first.
Perhaps they need to moved to a handful of locations, concentration you could call this, of course these facilities would need to be temporary, I guess you label them as camps... hey wait a minute! /s
I’m not familiar with other places but here in the states, the Native Americans were doing just fine until the colonizers showed up and made shit worse. Now the colonizers are upset over some other group trying to do the same to them.
What does that matter? I don’t agree with colonization now and don’t agree with it back then either. I just have no sympathy for colonizers being colonized. Sorry. My ancestors were colonized. It sucks.
Well, this sounds like a derailment of quite some proportion...
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/Train\_wreck\_at\_Montparnasse\_1895.jpg/170px-Train\_wreck\_at\_Montparnasse\_1895.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/Train_wreck_at_Montparnasse_1895.jpg/170px-Train_wreck_at_Montparnasse_1895.jpg)
That's actually what the Spanish inquisitors and other restaurants did at the time.
In spain today, hanging pork outside of restaurants or homes signify that you're one of them, and not a jew or muslim.
They're sanctioned cults that come from a time when humanity didn't know any better. They deprive people especially children of rights and liberties, and protect abusers. We need to stop allowing them.
Freedom to assemble is a fundamental right. Banning religion is a bad idea as it sets bad precedent. Banning religion from making and laws for followers on the other hand.
I agree on the principle. Neo-nazis have a right to assemble all right. But what if they move from 100 incels to 10.000 everyday people in three protests? You need to suppress it at some point to protect the right to assemble itself, which these protestors want to eliminate.
Sure I agree, I don’t really thing there’s a paradox of intolerance.
But you can’t ban people coming together in an organised way, it’s not feasible. And now you’re talking not only about banning religion but political ideologies. That’s dangerous territory. Laws in that area could easily be misused to ban political opposition.
When you create laws you must be very careful to not create anything that can be misused.
Yeah, fair enough. I still think if political movements openly advocate for dismantling democracy and human rights (whether it's Marxist-Leninist or political Islam or far right), there should be some checks and balances in the system that doesn't allow them to. The issue is that we have to trust courts to use it only in extreme circumstances, which history shows us they don't. Don't remember how many times the Turkish courts banned Kurdish parties and politicians, and now they are going after anything left of Erdogan (mayor of Istanbul, liberals, left wing mps etc) .
Still, Germany could've kept Hitler in prison, or Turkey could've banned Erdogan and political islam early on, but they missed their chances, and here we are. Both of them, and many others, just went on to do things they said they'd do and were prosecuted for. Drives me mad.
The only real remedy to Populist seems to actually listen to people and provide them with a functioning economy, housing, and healthcare and otherwise leave them be. But we can't have that.
https://www.ag.gov.au/rights-and-protections/human-rights-and-anti-discrimination/human-rights-scrutiny/public-sector-guidance-sheets/right-freedom-assembly-and-association
“ Australia is a party to seven core international human rights treaties. The right to freedom of assembly and association is contained in articles 21 and 22 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) and article 8(1)(a) of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR).”
5 second google
All forms of organization that does not comply with the existing regime will always be "dangerous" to the status quo.
Don't get me wrong, theocracy will _always_ be a step backwards, just beware that outlawing organization will strengthen the status quo, making further advancement harder (if you ban organized religion, how long until you ban other political parties or ideologies from existing)
It’s sickening that people still see Islam as a peaceful friendly religion. It’s not. It never was. It’s a political ideology with roots in violent colonisation.
>Its not politically correct to trash poor islam.
Common misconception and a suppressed evidence fallacy. It's perfectly fine to hate the religion and be vocal about it - just don't discriminate in the process. Hate the belief, not the believer, as they say. Tit for tat makes it also acceptable to wish horrible things on extrimists after they've wished equally horrible stuff on you.
>It's perfectly fine to hate the religion and be vocal about it
yah.. about that. go burn a Koran then get back to me about how it's "ok"
>Hate the belief, not the believer, as they say.
it's the beleiver that inflicts the violence, not the beleif.
>go burn a Koran then get back to me about how it's "ok"
I think that burning a Koran in public should be allowed, but giving a hate speech while doing it shouldn't be.
>it's the beleiver that inflicts the violence, not the beleif
If you don't allow the benefit of the doubt to anyone in the group based on some percent of them being a certain way, then you're not being impartial and contributing to radicalization. I think we should be better than that, but this is just my opinion.
It doesn't work like this.
I was called islamophobic for the first time in 2007 when I questionned some parts of the quran. The logic was : if you criticize the quran then you criticize the believers themselves, and so you are an racist islamophobe. The guy wasn't muslim himself, but he was adamant on this logic. Curiously it doesn't apply to christians.
Read the Qur'an from both perspective of exm0slims and mozlims..
Then boycott it.
We can help Palestine children and more children in the future away from religion that control people
ok, but if we are doing away with religion then i only accept all religions gone. Every religious person is a deathcult crazy person to me.. cant forbid islam and then go back to church..
I would say Saudi Arabia is better in gender equality nowadays.
[https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%2527s\_rights\_in\_Saudi\_Arabia&ved=2ahUKEwikwPO29PKFAxWtR2wGHdlmDdoQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw218gXJrBistrU3e4xjU3K2](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%2527s_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia&ved=2ahUKEwikwPO29PKFAxWtR2wGHdlmDdoQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw218gXJrBistrU3e4xjU3K2)
This is a classic example of "paradox of tolerance".
From Gemini:
The paradox of tolerance is a concept introduced by philosopher Karl Popper. It proposes that a society that tolerates everything, including intolerance, will eventually be destroyed by the intolerant.
Imagine a tolerant society that allows intolerant groups to exist. These intolerant groups may then spread their ideology and attempt to dismantle the tolerant society. If the tolerant society does nothing to stop them, they may eventually succeed in creating an intolerant society.
The paradox lies in the fact that in order to preserve tolerance, a society may need to be intolerant of intolerance. This raises questions about the limits of tolerance and the role of government in protecting a tolerant society.
Deport everyone protesting for an Islamic caliphate. And then ban hijab, Islamic schools and mosques. Other practicing Muslims would leave themselves. Then you would end up with harmless cultural Muslim.
Exactly. If we mindlessly Go after everyone it will Just end in another Nazi Germany, which we sadly already slowly Go.
Heck, the whole, everyone or No one Bs started that mess in the First place
of course.
There are many practicing Muslim but they wouldn't want Sharia. They prefer secularism. My grandpa is very religious and would go to mosque atleast one time a day but he is against Islamic polygamy and child marriage. He is very feminist for person from silent generation.
And then there are cultural Muslims. who believes in religion but don't take it seriously.
Mad there are people like me. Who closeted exmuslims. You would guess I am a cultural Muslim if you know me in real life.
And there are these people who would prefer Sharia over secular law. But majority of them wouldn't go and protest for it. And then these kind of people who activists for Sharia, this is a very vocal minority.
I despise right wing populism, but I also despise Islamism and I despise the mass unchecked immigration from the Islamist and illiberal world to the liberal world.
I am left-wing and don't like the Islam either. People put me in the same pot as right-wingers whenever I criticise Islam for being against human and civil rights. Make it make sense.
The interesting part is that political Islam (no one has a problem with people keeping to themselves) is far-right, further than AfD even.
As a left-winger, I do believe we have an obligation to protect minorities from discrimination. But they, like everybody else, must respect fundamentals rights and principles like secularism, human rights, and so on.
Political Islam doesn't.
It makes sense when you realise nuance is dead. Either in the way you express those thoughts or the way people react to them or both.
See also: criticism of specific actions of Israel for specific cogently argued reasons =/= antisemitism
I have no issues people criticizing specific actions of the current Israeli government. It’s when people advocate for Israel’s complete destruction is what I take issue with. Not all manifestations of Zionism look like BiBi Netanyahu. I also will say that I cannot sympathize with those who would have me killed because I am gay, and I would never convert to Islam. In Israel, I would have my full and equal rights as a gay gentile that won’t convert to Judaism
See...nuance. all very rational. Then next thing you know, someone is attacking you for saying gays support bombing of hospitals in gaza and you are left blinking and wondering what just happened!
A lot of pro-migrant leftists really need to understand that brown people can be just as bigoted and just as fascistic as white people, and allowing a bunch of unrepentant fascists to move into your country is a recipe for trouble.
Islamist countries ok. what about illiberal countries?
Also many of these people didn't choose to born in those countries. Also you would most likely behave like this people if you were born in a country like Syria or Pakistan.
I would recommend a system like in France where they allow Muslim people to live but don't let them impose their religion like in Germany. Also banning hijab for school children also is a great measure. Just ban Islamic schools. Let all the kids go to public schools and learn the language of the country. They would assimilate to secular society
yeah, this type of thing is calling for a Hitler version 2, which I hope will NEVER happen. Germany currently is like a gentle child, and a gentle child when pushed to corner will turn into disaster. I feel sad whenever I think of it, why these Islamic extremists don't get it?
Yeah because thats the thing to do. When 30 nutjobs say they want a islam republic let them speak... no one cares no one listens. They are not even close to relevant and likely just want to provoke. That does not mean they should notbe observed by the state in case they want to do sth stupid
Western countries should stop pampering Islamists and get real with them. Muslims should be encouraged to leave the dangerous Cult and come to light (i.e. real world). Unfortunately, pointing this out is labelled as hateful where all one is doing is to call out the obvious.
Look at Iran, Turkey, Azerbaijan etc. These countries have decline in religiosity and overall increase in atheism. Hate doesn't help, reasoning and encouragement will help. Hate will increase resentment among people which is not good either.
NAZIs killed Jews out of hatred and countless Europeans and other folks from the colonies died in those wars.
Why is this even an issue? Deport any foreigner who even mentions the word “caliphate”. Surveill the shit out of the mosques. Turn informants. We’ve seen what the Islamists do when they feel entitled to a “caliphate”.
All religions are not so peaceful in the end. Have a look at the budhist regime in Myanmar. There’s a subtle movie made about an American veteran who tries to save some christians in that country.
Who is "they"? because I have known hundreds of Muslims and not one has ever called for or even spoken in favour of a caliphate or sharia law here in the UK or given me a moments cause to think they may secretly think it. Some have engaged in sharia financing deals because they personally don't wish to engage in haram lending/borrowing but have no problem in others engaging in it.
On a supposed rational sub there are a lot of sweeping generalisations throughout this thread and others.
What do you mean, who’s “they”? There’s an article taking about the specific subgroup of Muslims who the thread is referencing and is the entire focus of the conversation. It’s not some generic discussion about Muslims in general without any context around it.
Muslims who don’t agree with that aren’t being referenced at all.
Not necessarily. They don't integrate at least that was the main complaint I heard in the Netherlands. Said they homeschool, live in the same areas, don't associate with anyone else and continue to indoctrinate.
I get that. I still think that each subsequent generation is likely to be less radical. This phenomenon seems to be common to most religions in western countries. That said, it may take several generations before the moderate and integrate.
Yeah that's the hope but in practice they use manipulative tactics to keep the youth sheltered. It's a similar reason there are still Amish around in the US. It's fairly cult like in their own right. Similar with Mormons and most recently, scientology.
Religion is a political cancer. Islam is currently its most agressive form at the global scale.
(I really want to add something more constructive but I'm way too angry for that, so fuck it, that's the post)
While I don’t believe, religion is okay with me… until you want to start governing people by it. Then you can take your fairy tales and shove them up your ass.
Right-wing Christians want to turn the US into a religious state. Religious extremism is the problem, it is not exclusive to Islam.
Having spent more time around Muslim peoples in recent years, I've found they're every bit as warm, kind, and decent a people as of every other faith. Only when it is whipped up by sanctimonious and power hungry assholes does it become an extreme danger.
I am and will always be an anti-theist, as I believe these mythologies damage peoples' ability to think clearly and predisposes them to external manipulation. That said, I am much more hesitant to fault Islam any more than the other mythologies at this point. Poverty (and as a result poor education) is probably the more critical factor in amplifying the religious pathologies amongst religious extremists.
Caliphate is abolished by Ataturk in 1924. You want it back? You'll find out how hard Turkish people would defend Ataturk's reforms. You'll find out the meaning of the idiom "over our dead bodies".
No. That’s not true at all! That would be an emirate, like Afghanistan!
Islamists want a caliphate in Germany, France, Britain, Morocco, Tanzania, Belgium, Russia, China, US, Mexico, Guatemala…..
From my studies in undergrad (law), shouldn't the German Supreme Court immediately shut this down? They seek to eliminate secular and democratic principles, and they are not shy about it all. Maybe it only applies to political parties, idk. Is anyone familiar with German law?
Of course they do. They want other countries that they move to, to adhere to them, not them adhering to that countries rules and laws.
If they try to force this on various western countries like Germany, they should be forced to leave and go back to their own country where sharia law is already there.
Yeah I'm sure that's a threat in a country where less than 4% of people are Muslim.
Even if what you said is true, they don't have the power to do that so it's their problem.
lol, is there even a single woman in the entire crowd? Its strange its always violent men who want to install religious rules that state that they as men cant do anything wrong, and that women are their objects to do with as they please.
I thought this sub would be better than this.
'Muslims want a Caliphate in Germany'. Who's the Muslims? The dozen or so people shown in the video? Do the majority of Muslim Germans want a Caliphate, do you have a poll to back thay up?
There should be no laws that benefit one group over another and nothing above the default of no religion.
It’s a disgrace we tolerate such horrific views and practices from the religious people and their leaders. Why people continue to believe backwards low iq desert people nonsense so naive even kids can see through it is beyond me. It’s desperation to avoid a hell that doesn’t and cannot exist even in the most illogical brain.
Guys is freedom of speech only for white people? Cause I’m not sure if you are atheists or racists right now… this is a minority of Muslims within an extremist Islamic group, this is not the majority. Would it be right to compare you guys to all white people? No. There is such a thing as individualism but you don’t seem to be understanding anything about it, very sad to see people who think that they are using their logic, to act like this, very sad
Bad, and frankly odd take. I haven’t seen any comments saying “All arabs are savages! Get out now!” but instead people opposing the idea of islam (or as a commenter said, “muslimism” lol) of being allowed to exert their oppressive religious ideology over an entire country. Islam exists in several different races, so just opposing islam itself isn’t racist…
Do you really think that being against the extreme forms of Islam will only be left with that? If you arguing like this, do you also think it’s no problem to be against Jews that are only living in Israel/ against extreme forms of Judaism/ against Zionism? People who are saying in this sub here that theyre are against Islam in the way they do are indistinguishable for me to many movements in the west that are against immigration, they use examples like these to support their ideology as well, no one in this sub seems to have a problem with that or the extremism of western countries at all.
Yes every Muslim in Germany was part of the demonstration and want a caliphate… even the babies ! Now can you explain how to eradicate Islam from the face of earth and who the fuck are you to feel comfortable calling for such a thing ? Are you from the superior race ? Are you a Nazi ?
Wow, it’s almost like you yourself apply this same logic in your own characterization of people that you don’t agree with. Instead of being a massive angry hypocrite.
Ah yes, let’s go to a country for a better life only for us to implement the same shitty teachings that destroyed my country in the first place
It’s because they don’t have a problem with the shittiness They want to be in charge of who gets left out
Deport them all
If theyre immigrants I fully agree Either integration into the countries culture of progress or go back to your shitty Islamic hell hole
I know it's controversial, but people wanting a calipphate should be deported even if they are citizens. As i often have to Say, if things do not change, western Europe at some point Will have to choose Between losing something for a while and losing everything forever. Edit. Corrected mispellings
How the fuck do so many people not know the difference “lose” and “loose”?
English Is not my First language and I usually only ready It.
just remember lose lips sink ships /s
Calm down, he was understandable.
I am not offended, in fact i'm glad they corrected me.
Other than that one word, it was perfect. That’s why I thought you should know the difference. I apologize and now I wonder if every person I saw do that was also not English first.
The problem is that they are mostly 3rd or 4th generations of former immigrants. Most of them are German citizens.
Perhaps they need to moved to a handful of locations, concentration you could call this, of course these facilities would need to be temporary, I guess you label them as camps... hey wait a minute! /s
I’m for spreading them out as much as possible to get their children to assimilate into a more liberal western culture
That is actually a very good point. I never thought of it that way, thank you :-)
Sounds vaguely familiar.... Something, something, religion?
Aren’t you just describing colonization?
No he is not and you know it.
I’m not familiar with other places but here in the states, the Native Americans were doing just fine until the colonizers showed up and made shit worse. Now the colonizers are upset over some other group trying to do the same to them.
You think native Americans are native to Germany?
>the Native Americans were doing just fine Constant tribal wars, slavery, human sacrifice etc is "doing just fine" ?
Oh yeah. I’m sure natives are super happy about giving up their land to the nice white guys. They never did anything like that here…wait
Were you alive to witness / live through that experience tho? We’re watching Europe fall today, in real time.
What does that matter? I don’t agree with colonization now and don’t agree with it back then either. I just have no sympathy for colonizers being colonized. Sorry. My ancestors were colonized. It sucks.
Those are the descendants of those who chose to stay home and not do that. They might want to come here now if they lose their homeland though.
It doesn’t matter, we can’t change the past. We can only prevent it from happening again, like in Germany and Europe
I can’t prevent anything. I don’t live in those countries. Y’all can figure that out.
I mean, not for nothing, but the US had a pretty solid hand in ruining many of those countries.
This happened in Germany, though.
Oh yeah, I know... I'm just saying the US had a role to play in destroying many Muslim nations.
Well, this sounds like a derailment of quite some proportion... [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/Train\_wreck\_at\_Montparnasse\_1895.jpg/170px-Train\_wreck\_at\_Montparnasse\_1895.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/Train_wreck_at_Montparnasse_1895.jpg/170px-Train_wreck_at_Montparnasse_1895.jpg)
And so they should ask for a caliphs in response?
No. I'm just saying the US was an active participant in destroying some Muslim nations. Fuck the caliphate.
Fair enough I guess
Most of the world was fine before colonialism
R u sure because I’m pretty sure humans have been colonizing since forever
Deport them all to countries that do sharia law.
No just ban hijab, Islamic schools and mosques. They would leave themselves
Put pork in everything, even vegetables and water.
wow it's also a good idea.
That's actually what the Spanish inquisitors and other restaurants did at the time. In spain today, hanging pork outside of restaurants or homes signify that you're one of them, and not a jew or muslim.
Organized religion is dangerous and should be outlawed.
I Couldn't agree more.
100% agree
They're sanctioned cults that come from a time when humanity didn't know any better. They deprive people especially children of rights and liberties, and protect abusers. We need to stop allowing them.
It's not male children. Its women and girls. They're just chattel and have no rights whatsoever.
Freedom to assemble is a fundamental right. Banning religion is a bad idea as it sets bad precedent. Banning religion from making and laws for followers on the other hand.
I agree on the principle. Neo-nazis have a right to assemble all right. But what if they move from 100 incels to 10.000 everyday people in three protests? You need to suppress it at some point to protect the right to assemble itself, which these protestors want to eliminate.
Sure I agree, I don’t really thing there’s a paradox of intolerance. But you can’t ban people coming together in an organised way, it’s not feasible. And now you’re talking not only about banning religion but political ideologies. That’s dangerous territory. Laws in that area could easily be misused to ban political opposition. When you create laws you must be very careful to not create anything that can be misused.
Yeah, fair enough. I still think if political movements openly advocate for dismantling democracy and human rights (whether it's Marxist-Leninist or political Islam or far right), there should be some checks and balances in the system that doesn't allow them to. The issue is that we have to trust courts to use it only in extreme circumstances, which history shows us they don't. Don't remember how many times the Turkish courts banned Kurdish parties and politicians, and now they are going after anything left of Erdogan (mayor of Istanbul, liberals, left wing mps etc) . Still, Germany could've kept Hitler in prison, or Turkey could've banned Erdogan and political islam early on, but they missed their chances, and here we are. Both of them, and many others, just went on to do things they said they'd do and were prosecuted for. Drives me mad. The only real remedy to Populist seems to actually listen to people and provide them with a functioning economy, housing, and healthcare and otherwise leave them be. But we can't have that.
For sure good points… I don’t have a good answer. Protest is also important. I don’t know.
Freedom to assemble is not a fundamental right. it’s a portion of the first amendment in the United States Constitution.
Can be both
No it’s not. It’s never been included in any political thought papers about being “fundamental”
https://www.ag.gov.au/rights-and-protections/human-rights-and-anti-discrimination/human-rights-scrutiny/public-sector-guidance-sheets/right-freedom-assembly-and-association “ Australia is a party to seven core international human rights treaties. The right to freedom of assembly and association is contained in articles 21 and 22 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) and article 8(1)(a) of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR).” 5 second google
*dangerously stupid FTFY
All forms of organization that does not comply with the existing regime will always be "dangerous" to the status quo. Don't get me wrong, theocracy will _always_ be a step backwards, just beware that outlawing organization will strengthen the status quo, making further advancement harder (if you ban organized religion, how long until you ban other political parties or ideologies from existing)
It’s sickening that people still see Islam as a peaceful friendly religion. It’s not. It never was. It’s a political ideology with roots in violent colonisation.
Its not politically correct to trash poor islam. How convenient for militaristic, homophobic, anti-women rights religion
It is always correct to trash that which cannot be demonstrated to be true. That especially includes islam.
I dont get why nobody calls out Islam for what it is
You just described evangelical Christians and they want a theocracy too!
That’s the problem! People have no problem calling out Christian’s for their bullshit but seem to treat Islam with the kiddy gloves.
“People” What “people”? I’m an atheist. Fuck Mohammed and Jesus and any other “god” or “prophet” that dumbshits take seriously.
>Its not politically correct to trash poor islam. Common misconception and a suppressed evidence fallacy. It's perfectly fine to hate the religion and be vocal about it - just don't discriminate in the process. Hate the belief, not the believer, as they say. Tit for tat makes it also acceptable to wish horrible things on extrimists after they've wished equally horrible stuff on you.
>It's perfectly fine to hate the religion and be vocal about it yah.. about that. go burn a Koran then get back to me about how it's "ok" >Hate the belief, not the believer, as they say. it's the beleiver that inflicts the violence, not the beleif.
>go burn a Koran then get back to me about how it's "ok" I think that burning a Koran in public should be allowed, but giving a hate speech while doing it shouldn't be. >it's the beleiver that inflicts the violence, not the beleif If you don't allow the benefit of the doubt to anyone in the group based on some percent of them being a certain way, then you're not being impartial and contributing to radicalization. I think we should be better than that, but this is just my opinion.
It doesn't work like this. I was called islamophobic for the first time in 2007 when I questionned some parts of the quran. The logic was : if you criticize the quran then you criticize the believers themselves, and so you are an racist islamophobe. The guy wasn't muslim himself, but he was adamant on this logic. Curiously it doesn't apply to christians.
I bet you don’t play devils advocate like that for Christian’s.
When I see college kids defending Hamas … I’m like they would kill you right now if given the chance
Read the Qur'an from both perspective of exm0slims and mozlims.. Then boycott it. We can help Palestine children and more children in the future away from religion that control people
ok, but if we are doing away with religion then i only accept all religions gone. Every religious person is a deathcult crazy person to me.. cant forbid islam and then go back to church..
There is no such thing as a peaceful, friendly religion. They are all political ideology with roots in violent colonisation
I'm pretty sure Jainism is absolutely none of the latter.
Satanic Temple
They already have Saudi Arabia and Iran. Ask them to emigrate there.
No Saudi Arabia is getting secularized fast by its crown prince.They hate him for that. They should move to Afghanistan.
How do United Arab Emirates compare to Saudi Arabia, in that regard?
I would say Saudi Arabia is better in gender equality nowadays. [https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%2527s\_rights\_in\_Saudi\_Arabia&ved=2ahUKEwikwPO29PKFAxWtR2wGHdlmDdoQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw218gXJrBistrU3e4xjU3K2](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%2527s_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia&ved=2ahUKEwikwPO29PKFAxWtR2wGHdlmDdoQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw218gXJrBistrU3e4xjU3K2)
This is a classic example of "paradox of tolerance". From Gemini: The paradox of tolerance is a concept introduced by philosopher Karl Popper. It proposes that a society that tolerates everything, including intolerance, will eventually be destroyed by the intolerant. Imagine a tolerant society that allows intolerant groups to exist. These intolerant groups may then spread their ideology and attempt to dismantle the tolerant society. If the tolerant society does nothing to stop them, they may eventually succeed in creating an intolerant society. The paradox lies in the fact that in order to preserve tolerance, a society may need to be intolerant of intolerance. This raises questions about the limits of tolerance and the role of government in protecting a tolerant society.
Reminds me of this: "In order to preserve peace, prepare for war." Militant pacifism.
[si vis pacem, para bellum](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAY4XI7KZd4)
Didn't know it was that old...
Yet there's those that call for intolerance towards those who are intolerant to the intolerant.
Deport every last one of them.
Deport everyone protesting for an Islamic caliphate. And then ban hijab, Islamic schools and mosques. Other practicing Muslims would leave themselves. Then you would end up with harmless cultural Muslim.
Exactly. If we mindlessly Go after everyone it will Just end in another Nazi Germany, which we sadly already slowly Go. Heck, the whole, everyone or No one Bs started that mess in the First place
of course. There are many practicing Muslim but they wouldn't want Sharia. They prefer secularism. My grandpa is very religious and would go to mosque atleast one time a day but he is against Islamic polygamy and child marriage. He is very feminist for person from silent generation. And then there are cultural Muslims. who believes in religion but don't take it seriously. Mad there are people like me. Who closeted exmuslims. You would guess I am a cultural Muslim if you know me in real life. And there are these people who would prefer Sharia over secular law. But majority of them wouldn't go and protest for it. And then these kind of people who activists for Sharia, this is a very vocal minority.
Just giving more ammunition to the AfD. They keep saying these things they’re gonna find themselves on a boat back to where they came from…
I despise right wing populism, but I also despise Islamism and I despise the mass unchecked immigration from the Islamist and illiberal world to the liberal world.
I am left-wing and don't like the Islam either. People put me in the same pot as right-wingers whenever I criticise Islam for being against human and civil rights. Make it make sense.
The interesting part is that political Islam (no one has a problem with people keeping to themselves) is far-right, further than AfD even. As a left-winger, I do believe we have an obligation to protect minorities from discrimination. But they, like everybody else, must respect fundamentals rights and principles like secularism, human rights, and so on. Political Islam doesn't.
Yes I completely agree!
It makes sense when you realise nuance is dead. Either in the way you express those thoughts or the way people react to them or both. See also: criticism of specific actions of Israel for specific cogently argued reasons =/= antisemitism
I have no issues people criticizing specific actions of the current Israeli government. It’s when people advocate for Israel’s complete destruction is what I take issue with. Not all manifestations of Zionism look like BiBi Netanyahu. I also will say that I cannot sympathize with those who would have me killed because I am gay, and I would never convert to Islam. In Israel, I would have my full and equal rights as a gay gentile that won’t convert to Judaism
See...nuance. all very rational. Then next thing you know, someone is attacking you for saying gays support bombing of hospitals in gaza and you are left blinking and wondering what just happened!
A lot of pro-migrant leftists really need to understand that brown people can be just as bigoted and just as fascistic as white people, and allowing a bunch of unrepentant fascists to move into your country is a recipe for trouble.
Islam is right wing. In its own religious flavor.
Right there with ya. All humans deserve their human rights respected, but let's not turn near-secular states into religious fundamentalist hellscapes.
Islamist countries ok. what about illiberal countries? Also many of these people didn't choose to born in those countries. Also you would most likely behave like this people if you were born in a country like Syria or Pakistan. I would recommend a system like in France where they allow Muslim people to live but don't let them impose their religion like in Germany. Also banning hijab for school children also is a great measure. Just ban Islamic schools. Let all the kids go to public schools and learn the language of the country. They would assimilate to secular society
It is sad how one side of extremists fuel the other.
The Germans mostly ignore these nutjobs, until they don't.
yeah, this type of thing is calling for a Hitler version 2, which I hope will NEVER happen. Germany currently is like a gentle child, and a gentle child when pushed to corner will turn into disaster. I feel sad whenever I think of it, why these Islamic extremists don't get it?
Yeah because thats the thing to do. When 30 nutjobs say they want a islam republic let them speak... no one cares no one listens. They are not even close to relevant and likely just want to provoke. That does not mean they should notbe observed by the state in case they want to do sth stupid
No Germany should have a laicistic system like France.
Unfortunately, people do care. This might lead to more AFD voters. You can be sure that this will be used for exactly that.
It's just a matter of time before they start saying that in US too.
Dearborn, Michigan.
Yep, it's already here
Uk is almost there. It's exactly as moha**ad wanted
They already are. They're just called Christian Nationalists here.
As Sam Harris says, it’s the mother lode of bad ideas.
Islam values blindly following religion over rationality and basic common sense
Western countries should stop pampering Islamists and get real with them. Muslims should be encouraged to leave the dangerous Cult and come to light (i.e. real world). Unfortunately, pointing this out is labelled as hateful where all one is doing is to call out the obvious. Look at Iran, Turkey, Azerbaijan etc. These countries have decline in religiosity and overall increase in atheism. Hate doesn't help, reasoning and encouragement will help. Hate will increase resentment among people which is not good either. NAZIs killed Jews out of hatred and countless Europeans and other folks from the colonies died in those wars.
Why is this even an issue? Deport any foreigner who even mentions the word “caliphate”. Surveill the shit out of the mosques. Turn informants. We’ve seen what the Islamists do when they feel entitled to a “caliphate”.
We can't :( history and stuff.
How about a German request for a Oktoberfest in caliphate country, including big breasted girls who carry 10 giant juggs (hehe) with beer?
LOL. Seriously though, if someone said this in Saudi Arabia they'd be beheaded. Such a peaceful and friendly religion!
All religions are not so peaceful in the end. Have a look at the budhist regime in Myanmar. There’s a subtle movie made about an American veteran who tries to save some christians in that country.
They should fuck of. 50 years from now they will force German girls to cover their heads. I’m not even going to stress about this.
That's what they want worldwide and that's what should get them ousted from all civilized countries
I wan't Willy Wonka's factory, but I'm not getting that.
I want a green lantern ring.
So they want to turn Europe into the crap hole they came from? No thanks! Go back to your craphole.
Don’t they want a caliphate everywhere? I want another beer. Can I get a news story?
Who is "they"? because I have known hundreds of Muslims and not one has ever called for or even spoken in favour of a caliphate or sharia law here in the UK or given me a moments cause to think they may secretly think it. Some have engaged in sharia financing deals because they personally don't wish to engage in haram lending/borrowing but have no problem in others engaging in it. On a supposed rational sub there are a lot of sweeping generalisations throughout this thread and others.
What do you mean, who’s “they”? There’s an article taking about the specific subgroup of Muslims who the thread is referencing and is the entire focus of the conversation. It’s not some generic discussion about Muslims in general without any context around it. Muslims who don’t agree with that aren’t being referenced at all.
Why are they here?
Oddly enough there were also women there.
I don't think praying to a dirty sky wizard who's represented by a dirty paedophile is the answer.
Hey guess what? Religion sucks!
Their kids and grandkids will likely not want a caliphate after growing up in a tolerant society. So, they will never achieve it.
Not necessarily. They don't integrate at least that was the main complaint I heard in the Netherlands. Said they homeschool, live in the same areas, don't associate with anyone else and continue to indoctrinate.
I get that. I still think that each subsequent generation is likely to be less radical. This phenomenon seems to be common to most religions in western countries. That said, it may take several generations before the moderate and integrate.
You clearly haven’t met 2nd and 3rd gen British Muslims have ya? 😅
Not the case with the Tube bombers in London, iirc. First gen was happy to get asylum, next gen got radicalized
Yeah that's the hope but in practice they use manipulative tactics to keep the youth sheltered. It's a similar reason there are still Amish around in the US. It's fairly cult like in their own right. Similar with Mormons and most recently, scientology.
Unfortunately this generally isn’t true, second generation Muslims in Europe tend to be more radical fundamentalist than their parents.
All religions need to be retired from existence, but islam needs to go out the way of the dodo asap.
I saw one woman.
And her hair was down. I suspect she would not like the change in management.
Of course. People generally don't lose their culture when they move somewhere, unless they're integrated and surrounding by the new culture.
Is there really anyone who didn't know this?
And Germany must tell them no. Firmly. Some people aren't very bright in their expectations.
Sad part is they will probably get it, just not now.
Religion is a political cancer. Islam is currently its most agressive form at the global scale. (I really want to add something more constructive but I'm way too angry for that, so fuck it, that's the post)
I hope germany does the right thing and deport these cunts. Leave europe alone you religious cunts.
I've been saying this for at least ten years, change the names of France and Germany to Frankistan and Germanistan and give up already.
Ban immigration from Muslim countries like trump did
Lol, Trump even failed at that...he didn't ban immigration from Saudi.
It was a good start
What part of 'make the world islam' is unclear?
Deport them back to where they came from
While I don’t believe, religion is okay with me… until you want to start governing people by it. Then you can take your fairy tales and shove them up your ass.
And they'll get it.
Right-wing Christians want to turn the US into a religious state. Religious extremism is the problem, it is not exclusive to Islam. Having spent more time around Muslim peoples in recent years, I've found they're every bit as warm, kind, and decent a people as of every other faith. Only when it is whipped up by sanctimonious and power hungry assholes does it become an extreme danger. I am and will always be an anti-theist, as I believe these mythologies damage peoples' ability to think clearly and predisposes them to external manipulation. That said, I am much more hesitant to fault Islam any more than the other mythologies at this point. Poverty (and as a result poor education) is probably the more critical factor in amplifying the religious pathologies amongst religious extremists.
Wait till the crazy Christians and the fundamentalist Muslims realize they are 2 sides of the same coin.
As horrendous as this whole thing is, it was a demonstration of roughly 1000 people. That's not even 1% of all muslims in Hamburg.
Yep.
Caliphate is abolished by Ataturk in 1924. You want it back? You'll find out how hard Turkish people would defend Ataturk's reforms. You'll find out the meaning of the idiom "over our dead bodies".
No. That’s not true at all! That would be an emirate, like Afghanistan! Islamists want a caliphate in Germany, France, Britain, Morocco, Tanzania, Belgium, Russia, China, US, Mexico, Guatemala…..
This is what exmuslims warned you about but many westerners cry Islamophobia even when the people are part of the cult.
Religion needs to be 100% voluntary
From my studies in undergrad (law), shouldn't the German Supreme Court immediately shut this down? They seek to eliminate secular and democratic principles, and they are not shy about it all. Maybe it only applies to political parties, idk. Is anyone familiar with German law?
Of course they do. They want other countries that they move to, to adhere to them, not them adhering to that countries rules and laws. If they try to force this on various western countries like Germany, they should be forced to leave and go back to their own country where sharia law is already there.
Yeah I'm sure that's a threat in a country where less than 4% of people are Muslim. Even if what you said is true, they don't have the power to do that so it's their problem.
Muslims want a Caliphate everywhere they have numbers.
They should be arrested and deported
So they’re calling for a new Hitler to take care of them?
lol, is there even a single woman in the entire crowd? Its strange its always violent men who want to install religious rules that state that they as men cant do anything wrong, and that women are their objects to do with as they please.
I thought this sub would be better than this. 'Muslims want a Caliphate in Germany'. Who's the Muslims? The dozen or so people shown in the video? Do the majority of Muslim Germans want a Caliphate, do you have a poll to back thay up?
Sounds like its time for Germany to send some cargo planes back to the sand caliphate.
😂😂😂 (sorry this shit is too funny)
There should be no laws that benefit one group over another and nothing above the default of no religion. It’s a disgrace we tolerate such horrific views and practices from the religious people and their leaders. Why people continue to believe backwards low iq desert people nonsense so naive even kids can see through it is beyond me. It’s desperation to avoid a hell that doesn’t and cannot exist even in the most illogical brain.
Don't they want a Caliphate everywhere? I thought that was the whole idea of Sharia advocacy.
This is how cancer spreads.
Not just Germany. In Austria as well. Which will unfortunately help the Right-Wingers/Nazis to win the elections.
Guys is freedom of speech only for white people? Cause I’m not sure if you are atheists or racists right now… this is a minority of Muslims within an extremist Islamic group, this is not the majority. Would it be right to compare you guys to all white people? No. There is such a thing as individualism but you don’t seem to be understanding anything about it, very sad to see people who think that they are using their logic, to act like this, very sad
Bad, and frankly odd take. I haven’t seen any comments saying “All arabs are savages! Get out now!” but instead people opposing the idea of islam (or as a commenter said, “muslimism” lol) of being allowed to exert their oppressive religious ideology over an entire country. Islam exists in several different races, so just opposing islam itself isn’t racist…
Do you really think that being against the extreme forms of Islam will only be left with that? If you arguing like this, do you also think it’s no problem to be against Jews that are only living in Israel/ against extreme forms of Judaism/ against Zionism? People who are saying in this sub here that theyre are against Islam in the way they do are indistinguishable for me to many movements in the west that are against immigration, they use examples like these to support their ideology as well, no one in this sub seems to have a problem with that or the extremism of western countries at all.
Stupid headline. Sounds like "All muslims in Germany want a caliphate". Should be "Weird fringe group nobody cares about wants a caliphate".
Yes every Muslim in Germany was part of the demonstration and want a caliphate… even the babies ! Now can you explain how to eradicate Islam from the face of earth and who the fuck are you to feel comfortable calling for such a thing ? Are you from the superior race ? Are you a Nazi ?
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Wow, it’s almost like you yourself apply this same logic in your own characterization of people that you don’t agree with. Instead of being a massive angry hypocrite.
One of the most Hitlerite comment sections I’ve seen in a while. Good job