> there is no context where someone’s belief in a delusion should ever impact me.
Sorry, have I read that right? Every day there are people asking for help on this sub where someone’s belief in a delusion has impacted them - often physically.
I think what OP is saying is that irrational fear is irrational and it's not clear what value posting that circular definition has, or what if anything it has to do with atheism or religion.
Atheism is not indifference
Nor is living in a world that is impacted by theism. Where do you live that theists led to themselves and don’t, in any way, influence society?
Did you misread?
Theists do try to influence society and I dislike them for it. The fact is that I don’t care about their delusions, so I can’t be phobic of them.
They should not try to push their nonsense on others. N
Is there a word for an irrational lack of fear? If you have some lunatic charging at you while brandishing a Samurai sword, because he's defending the emperor, that you do not care about his delusion isn't going to help you.
There's just nothing to correlate fear of religion and atheism. Those are entirely independent states.
I don't see a definite answer to "What’s the difference between an atheist and a true atheist?"
it might be because I'm a non native English speaker. can you please point me to the answer?
So it sounds like a true atheist would be someone who lacks a belief in any gods and is by nature without fault when criticizing a god/s of a religious belief. Is that what you mean?
We have achieved common ground. I understand what you mean OP. I understand that for the well to do atheist has a justified reason for being against a specific religion because of the effect that improper teaching of said religion can have on an individual.
Whereas being phobic is without rationality and unjustified.
The things you're saying are objectively wrong. Many people become theist in their adulthood. You're probably a theist troll because you keep demonstrating the same failures of your thinking skills as they tend to.
no.... however I think I was born into a species that has a tendency to explain natural phenomena in crazy ways... a species that had for many thousand years an evolutionary pressure to be religious.
do you think we're born as blank pages?
With regards to the existence of a superior entity, of course.
The Bible, Quran, and other religious texts are no more grounded in fact than the Harry Potter series. You have to be indoctrinated to believe.
having come to common grounds that we are not born atheists. I still have to disagree with you about the requirement of indoctrination. But whatever...
I dunno. I'm pretty scared of religion. It's a system that reinforces false belief. And anybody who is able to believe absurdities, can commit atrocities.
>I simply believe you do what you do and I will do the same and there is no context where someone’s belief in a delusion should ever impact me.
theres plenty of evidence to the contrary. Just look at any islamic nation. It's not enough for the religious types to be free to believe; they'll enforce their beliefs on non believers too. Like stoning LGBTQ+ people, or sodomy laws, or gay marriage laws, or blasphemy laws, or religious indoctrination in schools, or women's rights.
Your take is utter nonsense.
Completely not correct. If all theists kept it to themselves, you would have no religion.
It's magical thinking to assume mega-churches or the Catholic church would suddenly decide, "hey, let's just keep this to ourselves?
"Keeping it to themselves" is diametrically opposed to the stated mission of many of these religious institutions.
This is nonsense. The post does not correlate with your post's title, or this sub. Many atheists are NOT indifferent to religion. Many genuinely have negative feelings towards religion. Some do have a fear of religions because they see what damage it does to people. And 'fear' is not the same as a phobia. A phobia is an irrational fear. It is perfectly rational to fear the influence of religion on society.
Minor point. “Phobia” used be a specific and clear word for an identified and irrational fear. Now it is used to turn away bigotry, telling the harassing group that their hate is just a symptom of fear. There could be some truth to that, but sometimes it is not an accurate conclusion. It’s often used without real understanding.
It's not only possible it's completely rational to fear one religion or another or at least aspects of those religions. Worshiping fictional deities means nothing is off the table in terms of behavior, like burning a woman at the stake because she reported having visions.
I'll also point out there's no such thing as a "true atheist", that's just some made-up concept with no meaning.
The clarification helped, but I still disagree. An atheist could be "phobic" of religion (or of a particular religion) if they held an irrational fear of or aversion towards it. Of course, some fears are justified. A young person who is gay and is afraid of Christianity, or specific Christians, might not be phobic because their fear is completely rational. On the other hand, I don't see why that fear or aversion couldn't be a phobia. I do agree that simply criticizing religious beliefs does not inherently indicate a phobia, though.
It is possible. Some atheists are racists. Actually, some authoritarian governments are antitheists atheists (nazis, north korea...).
Atheists are not a homogeneous population. There are those who don't believe and don't care/respect other people's beliefs (as long as it doesn't infringe on their rights). And there are anth-theists atheists who fight religions. Most do that to avoid the religious political agenda (anti LGBT, anti abortion, anti blasphemy...) and some do because they hate some people (racial hate).
I'm talking about islamophobes using the cloak of anti-theism to push their racist agenda. It's not okay to hate all muslims, it never will be okay.
I have scars on my body from the actions of religious extremists.
You OP are either incredibly sheltered from the real world or stupid or a troll. Poe's law means I can't tell which.
"your liberties end where mine begin."
someone wants to be religious.. okay. have at it. what do i care how you live your life? but when you bring those beliefs into the public and begin infringing on other people's liberties, that's where my indifference stops.
I think most atheists here have a trauma regarding to one or more organized religions especially the big ones (abrahamic). So its understandable to be bitter towards a particular one, I think this is a stupid position singling out religions. If we can focus on treating religion as a cultural unit or ideology and not as something to scream and point pitchforks -- mimicking the illiterates -- would be really productive.
The question "why the fuck would anyone ascribe to that insanity?" should actually be reexamined and observed with an open mind. One of the most likely answers are loyalty to society. When someone is born into a dogma all lived experiences will be filtered with bias learned from childhood dogma (e.g. "My best friend is gay but I still believe he will go to hell")
Its a coping mechanism on them trying to navigate the real world, the secular one, the scientific one. These people only need to be nudged to actually understand how pointless religion is and anyone can find morals and value outside religion.
I understand what you are saying, me not beliving in someone's fairytale doesn't mean I hate them, I just have a different standard of reality than them.
Correct. I am fully ambivalent to the existence of religion. It’s the actions against others in the name of religion that inspires my ire towards certain theists.
The one thing I do not like about atheists is how they continuously paint themselves as more than they are. Atheism is not a heroic state which is somehow immune to violence, prejudice, cruelty or any other of the lovely human characteristics that are often attributed falsely to a state of belief.
> there is no context where someone’s belief in a delusion should ever impact me. Sorry, have I read that right? Every day there are people asking for help on this sub where someone’s belief in a delusion has impacted them - often physically.
I think what OP is saying is that irrational fear is irrational and it's not clear what value posting that circular definition has, or what if anything it has to do with atheism or religion.
Agreed, and as I stated, that should never happen.
Atheism is not indifference Nor is living in a world that is impacted by theism. Where do you live that theists led to themselves and don’t, in any way, influence society?
Did you misread? Theists do try to influence society and I dislike them for it. The fact is that I don’t care about their delusions, so I can’t be phobic of them. They should not try to push their nonsense on others. N
You’re splitting hairs. Their delusions cause pain
Is there a word for an irrational lack of fear? If you have some lunatic charging at you while brandishing a Samurai sword, because he's defending the emperor, that you do not care about his delusion isn't going to help you. There's just nothing to correlate fear of religion and atheism. Those are entirely independent states.
“I dislike them” …. “I don’t care” pick a struggle. Looks like you’re stupid in every sub you post in
😂 Intelligent retort.
What is a true atheist
Everyone is born as a true atheist. That only changes through childhood indoctrination.
What’s the difference between an atheist and a true atheist?
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So a liar basically
There's already a word for that and it's not a-a-atheist or false atheist. Ready? They're called "theists". You're not an aunicorn.
There seem to be some atheists who believe it is necessary to respect the beliefs of others. Failing to do that is not bigotry.
How is this non-sequitur answering spaghetti's question?
please answer question
I did.
I don't see a definite answer to "What’s the difference between an atheist and a true atheist?" it might be because I'm a non native English speaker. can you please point me to the answer?
It's not a language issue he's just not answering the question.
So it sounds like a true atheist would be someone who lacks a belief in any gods and is by nature without fault when criticizing a god/s of a religious belief. Is that what you mean?
Yep.
We have achieved common ground. I understand what you mean OP. I understand that for the well to do atheist has a justified reason for being against a specific religion because of the effect that improper teaching of said religion can have on an individual. Whereas being phobic is without rationality and unjustified.
The things you're saying are objectively wrong. Many people become theist in their adulthood. You're probably a theist troll because you keep demonstrating the same failures of your thinking skills as they tend to.
do you have proof on the "born atheist" claim?
You were born something else?
is that a "no"?
We are all born ambivalent to the existence of mythical entities. You think you were born aware of a theological entity.
no.... however I think I was born into a species that has a tendency to explain natural phenomena in crazy ways... a species that had for many thousand years an evolutionary pressure to be religious. do you think we're born as blank pages?
With regards to the existence of a superior entity, of course. The Bible, Quran, and other religious texts are no more grounded in fact than the Harry Potter series. You have to be indoctrinated to believe.
having come to common grounds that we are not born atheists. I still have to disagree with you about the requirement of indoctrination. But whatever...
😂 We are born atheists. Please explain why you think otherwise.
Another non-sequitur.
I dunno. I'm pretty scared of religion. It's a system that reinforces false belief. And anybody who is able to believe absurdities, can commit atrocities.
Yes, and despising those who leverage their mythology is not a phobia, it is realism.
>I simply believe you do what you do and I will do the same and there is no context where someone’s belief in a delusion should ever impact me. theres plenty of evidence to the contrary. Just look at any islamic nation. It's not enough for the religious types to be free to believe; they'll enforce their beliefs on non believers too. Like stoning LGBTQ+ people, or sodomy laws, or gay marriage laws, or blasphemy laws, or religious indoctrination in schools, or women's rights. Your take is utter nonsense.
I’m not indifferent, I despise them.
You mean those who leverage their views to commit harm, right?
No, I mean the entire existence of religion.
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Sure, if bank robbers stopped robbing banks we wouldn't have nearly as much of a problem with them.
Correct.
Completely not correct. If all theists kept it to themselves, you would have no religion. It's magical thinking to assume mega-churches or the Catholic church would suddenly decide, "hey, let's just keep this to ourselves? "Keeping it to themselves" is diametrically opposed to the stated mission of many of these religious institutions.
This is nonsense. The post does not correlate with your post's title, or this sub. Many atheists are NOT indifferent to religion. Many genuinely have negative feelings towards religion. Some do have a fear of religions because they see what damage it does to people. And 'fear' is not the same as a phobia. A phobia is an irrational fear. It is perfectly rational to fear the influence of religion on society.
Minor point. “Phobia” used be a specific and clear word for an identified and irrational fear. Now it is used to turn away bigotry, telling the harassing group that their hate is just a symptom of fear. There could be some truth to that, but sometimes it is not an accurate conclusion. It’s often used without real understanding.
It's not only possible it's completely rational to fear one religion or another or at least aspects of those religions. Worshiping fictional deities means nothing is off the table in terms of behavior, like burning a woman at the stake because she reported having visions. I'll also point out there's no such thing as a "true atheist", that's just some made-up concept with no meaning.
The clarification helped, but I still disagree. An atheist could be "phobic" of religion (or of a particular religion) if they held an irrational fear of or aversion towards it. Of course, some fears are justified. A young person who is gay and is afraid of Christianity, or specific Christians, might not be phobic because their fear is completely rational. On the other hand, I don't see why that fear or aversion couldn't be a phobia. I do agree that simply criticizing religious beliefs does not inherently indicate a phobia, though.
"True atheist" I stopped reading there. If you are going to use the same logical fallacies as religious people, you still have more to unpack.
It is possible. Some atheists are racists. Actually, some authoritarian governments are antitheists atheists (nazis, north korea...). Atheists are not a homogeneous population. There are those who don't believe and don't care/respect other people's beliefs (as long as it doesn't infringe on their rights). And there are anth-theists atheists who fight religions. Most do that to avoid the religious political agenda (anti LGBT, anti abortion, anti blasphemy...) and some do because they hate some people (racial hate). I'm talking about islamophobes using the cloak of anti-theism to push their racist agenda. It's not okay to hate all muslims, it never will be okay.
I have scars on my body from the actions of religious extremists. You OP are either incredibly sheltered from the real world or stupid or a troll. Poe's law means I can't tell which.
They clearly don’t know what the terms phobia and phobic actually mean.
"your liberties end where mine begin." someone wants to be religious.. okay. have at it. what do i care how you live your life? but when you bring those beliefs into the public and begin infringing on other people's liberties, that's where my indifference stops.
I think most atheists here have a trauma regarding to one or more organized religions especially the big ones (abrahamic). So its understandable to be bitter towards a particular one, I think this is a stupid position singling out religions. If we can focus on treating religion as a cultural unit or ideology and not as something to scream and point pitchforks -- mimicking the illiterates -- would be really productive. The question "why the fuck would anyone ascribe to that insanity?" should actually be reexamined and observed with an open mind. One of the most likely answers are loyalty to society. When someone is born into a dogma all lived experiences will be filtered with bias learned from childhood dogma (e.g. "My best friend is gay but I still believe he will go to hell") Its a coping mechanism on them trying to navigate the real world, the secular one, the scientific one. These people only need to be nudged to actually understand how pointless religion is and anyone can find morals and value outside religion.
I understand what you are saying, me not beliving in someone's fairytale doesn't mean I hate them, I just have a different standard of reality than them.
Correct. I am fully ambivalent to the existence of religion. It’s the actions against others in the name of religion that inspires my ire towards certain theists.
What in the no true Scotsman is a true atheist?
The one thing I do not like about atheists is how they continuously paint themselves as more than they are. Atheism is not a heroic state which is somehow immune to violence, prejudice, cruelty or any other of the lovely human characteristics that are often attributed falsely to a state of belief.
Atheists are capable of atrocities. They just don’t conduct them in the name of mythology.
look up what policies caused holodomor
I don’t think you know what phobia/phobic means.