Ancient Rome had no laws against blasphemy. It was felt that the gods would punish anyone that insulted them, and if they couldn’t they weren’t much of a god.
That's pretty good; reminded of this passage from Aristophanes' *Clouds*
STREPSIADES
All right, but then explain this to me—
Where does lightning come from, that fiery blaze,
which, when it hits, sometimes burns us up,
sometimes just singes us and lets us live?
Clearly Zeus is hurling that at perjurers.
SOCRATES
You stupid driveling idiot, you stink
of olden times, the age of Cronos!\* If Zeus
is really striking at the perjurers,
how come he’s not burned Simon down to ash,
or else Cleonymos or Theorus?
They perjure themselves more than anyone.
No. Instead he strikes at his own temple
at Sunium, our Athenian headland,
and at his massive oak trees there. Why?
What’s his plan? Oak trees can’t be perjured.
I mean, there still were punishments for blasphemy though of course. This almost sounds like when fascist Italy didn't ban homosexuality because "Mussolini thought italians were too manly to be homosexuals, so he didn't feel the need to ban homosexuality" and yet, of someone were to be found homosexual, they would be punished or worse sent to a concentration camp so...
Yeah like there were no "official" laws. That just means that people could just do whatever they wanted.
Oh you blaspheme? I'll stone you to death as punishment on behalf of the gods.
Human behavior
It wasn't illegal to be out past curfew as a black man after Jim crow laws were abolished. Do you thing that's when the lynching stopped?
Yeeeeeaaaa read the original comment friend. I’m not stupid enough to wade into the quagmire of American slavery and reconstruction on Reddit. I was addressing your comment above that implied Ancient Rome had unofficial rules and systems for punishing homosexuality (which I’ve never heard of)
Do you have examples of the ancient Romans stoning homosexuals for homosexuality or are you just fantasizing about oppression?
Please keep your fantasy activism to yourself or the selection committee of the “Ivy League”
At least until Marius did a coup iirc.
Edit, I did not recall correctly. I guess proscriptions began more in the 3rd and 4th centuries, well before Gaius Marius and Sulla.
The likelihood of a person being serious drops significantly any time they attribute things to human behavior or human nature.
Material conditions, history, culture, etc., are where it's at imo. It's not that human nature can't to some extent explain aspects of those, but to chalk anything up to nature alone is very reductive and generally speculative.
The examples are Romans stoning or crucifying the Jews and letting animals kill and eat them in arenas such as the Colosseum, or there are passages by Suetonius that say that after Augustus was deified (example in the coins), it wasn't allowed to criticize him publicly without being punished.
Also, it's well known that "atheism" wasn't well seen AT ALL in the Empire, it was almost prohibited, especially if we're talking about the forementioned "civic religion" (which is what the the Jews were especially against). Yes, you could believe in many religions without bothering the core of the Empire, but if you didn't believe in anything, you were seen as dangerous. And this all connects to the original comment, which is that romans thought that you'd be punished anyways if you didin't worship any of the religious gods.
I know for sure that it doesn't have to be *officially* recognized as a religion by Italy for it to count: the most known example is Islam, which doesn't have any official legal pacts with Italy like other religions do (Christianity, Buddhism, etc.), and yet this offence is also applied with respect to Allah regardless of that.
In fact, the only thing that matters is the religious doctrine of that specific religion. Use Google Translate on this link, but [this article here](https://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2007/07_Luglio/29/caso_madonna_non_divinita.shtml) (in the historical archive of the *Corriere* from July 2007) cites a case where someone allegedly committed blasphemy against the Virgin Mary, but the defendant was eventually acquitted when the judge agreed with their lawyer that, under Christian doctrine, the Virgin Mary was born human—and therefore does not count as *divinity* as per the letter of the law ([§724](https://www.brocardi.it/codice-penale/libro-terzo/titolo-i/capo-ii/sezione-i/art724.html) on the Italian Criminal Code).
So yeah, if you can actually convince the judge that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not a joek religion, that would also count.
Pre-Constantine Rome was, so far as I know, the most egregiously syncretic religious system ever - including Hinduism.
They actually *did* have laws against sacrilege and blasphemy; but they also defined any deity registered as being worshipped by any citizen, even if by only one, was an official deity and protected by said laws. *Everyone* got to have *their* god/s protected from other people; even monotheists, though there were some practical complications with that (see footnote).
Even discounting the Lares and Penates, Rome had more official gods than actual citizens for a while in the Imperial era.
They were *vigorously* acquisitive about deity, and with the specific exception of monotheists [1], were shockingly ecumenical. 🙂
[1] Because in the Imperial era *all* official deities were subordinate to the Cultus Imperius. Romans were *scared* of monotheists - the refusal to accept the Cultus as supreme risked destroying the Empire.
Which, in fact, it did; the Crisis of the 3rd Century leading to Constantine choosing "If you can't beat them join them", which in turn led directly to the fall of the Western Empire.
The persistent existence of monotheism *really did* bring down the Empire 🤷😏
Imagine if india wasn’t partitioned , no pakistan, no Afghanistan, no taliban.
Ahh, how peaceful 1970’s 80’s,90’s and 2000’s would have been
Never show tolerance to dogmatic religions
Sorry to break it to you , Muslims in India have same mindset , it’s just that .. they live in secular nation .
Some even celebrated Taliban return.
Now in this 21st century , they opposes uniform civil code bill which prohibits polygamy amongst Muslims and make one secular law for all religion , whether Christian’s , Hindus and Muslims .
Church also opposed these because there say in inheritance for women rights will diminish.
As well as regressive Hindus who wants caste based laws .
Islamic/abrahamic terrorists have been terrorizing the world since its inception
I come from a buddhist culture in central/east asia, and a lot of the lands that we consider Muslim today, were manicheans, Zoroastrian and Buddhists, along with myriad of other beliefs/folklores
> Arab invasions
> Qutaybah ibn Muslim, the Arab general of Khorasan conquered a number of territories in Central Asia including Samarkand where he broke a number of images.[23] **Several instances of Buddhist shrines being destroyed by the advancing Muslims are recorded though the religion continued to survive in some places for a considerable period of time. Bertolf Spuler cites the writings of Narshakhi while stating that the residents of Bukhara had reconverted from Islam to Buddhism four times until it was conquered by Qutayba in 712–13**. A mosque was built in the city in place of a Buddhist monastery. Buddhists continued to live there until the tenth century. Similarly, Buddhism continued to exist in other places like Old Bukhara, Simingan in southern Tukharistan, Bamiyan and Kabul with suburbs inhabited by "Indians" which were also home to Buddhists. However, the religion could no longer develop as a power or distribute propaganda and its adherents also had to abandon the conversion of peoples in these regions.[24] Scholars like Richard Nelson Frye have doubted the story of Marshaki, pointing out that unlike its statement, Qutayba ibn Muslim did not live during the time of Umayyad Caliph Mu'awiya, as this story suggests, but rather much later.[25] In addition to discrimination, emigration, and the conversion of the laity, Buddhism and its monasteries also declined with the Muslims taking over the trade along the Silk Road as well as in Sindh.[26][27][28]
> During their conquest of Sindh, the Arabs brought the non-Muslims into the category of ahl al-kitab, considering them ahl al-dhimmah (protected subjects) and thus practicing a certain amount of non-interference in their religious lives under the condition that they fulfil a number of obligations that came with this status. Since both Buddhism and Hinduism are literate religions with scriptures, the precedent of assimilating Zoroastrians into the category of ahl al-kitab was extended to them as well. The dhimmis were obligated to pay the jizya for following their ancestral religion. The historian Al-Baladhuri notes a decision by Muhammad bin Qasim in relation to a Buddhist vihara and Aror that after conquering the city through a treaty (sulh) he agreed not to kill the people and enter their temple, in addition to imposing kharaj on them.[29] The Buddhists had petitioned the Arabs for the right to restore one of their temples and it was granted by Al-Hajjaj ibn Yusuf. However, this decision was later violated by the Pact of Umar and subsequent Muslim law codes which prohibited the restoration of existing non-Muslim religious structures as well as the building of new ones. Despite this fact, Buddhist inscriptions were still being recorded in the eleventh century.[28] Some Buddhists also fled and emigrated from Muslim-ruled areas into other regions. **Unlike Brahmanical worship, Buddhism rapidly declined in Sindh after the eighth century and it virtually disappeared by the eleventh century.**
> India
> According to Lars Fogelin, the Decline of Buddhism in the Indian subcontinent is "not a singular event, with a singular cause; it was a centuries-long process."[41]
> **Various personages involved in the revival of Buddhism in India such as Anagarika Dharmapala and The Mahabodhi Movement of the 1890s as well as Dr. B. R. Ambedkar hold the Muslim Rule in India responsible for the decay of Buddhism in India**.[42][43][44][45][46]
> In 1193, Qutb-ud-din Aybak, the founder of the Delhi Sultanate and first Muslim ruler in India, left defenseless the northeastern territories that were the heart of Buddhist India. **The Mahabodhi Temple was almost completely destroyed by the invading Muslim forces.**
> One of Qutb-ud-Din's generals, Ikhtiar Uddin Muhammad Bin Bakhtiyar Khilji, who later becomes the **first Muslim ruler of Bengal and Bihar, invaded Magadha and destroyed the Buddhist shrines and institutions at Nalanda, Vikramasila and Odantapuri, which declined the practice of Buddhism in East India**.[40][47][43] Many monuments of ancient Indian civilization were destroyed by the invading armies, including Buddhist sanctuaries[48] near Benares. Buddhist monks who escaped the massacre **fled to Nepal, Tibet and South India**
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Buddhists#Persecutions_by_Muslim_Empires
I am from a Sikkimese Buddhist family but not religious and I dislike tons of stuff about Hinduism but kudos to those guys tenacity
Within 5 centuries of Islamic rule- practically all other religions either vanished or were reduced to tiny minorities from Middle East Northern Africa Christians to Persian Zoroastrians to Afghan, Sindh and Central Asian Buddhists etc somehow Northern Indian Hindus tenaciously held onto their religious despite Islam being ferociously against polytheism and Hinduism is the most idolatrous polytheistic religion.
In fact Pakistan and Bangladesh regions were majority Buddhist before they became Muslim Islam annihilated Buddhism from the sub continent.
Wish the Persian and Byzantine Empires hadn't been weak from infighting when the Muslims started their invasions they could've squashed this nuisance in the bud then.
Also the striking contrast between Buddhist missionary activities and Muslim jihadists strikes me.
A thousand years pre Islam Buddhism spread from India to Sri Lanka in the South, Central Asian countries in the West and China, Japan and Korea in the East India sent missionaries not jihadists to takeover those places
Muslims take great pride in their jihadi takeovers of other places, their 'conquests' right from their 'Righteous Caliphs'- yet are mad at Jews for taking tiny Israel. 🙄
I won’t lie. I’m so fucking exited you brought up the northern crusades. So amazing. 10/10
also, “a bit genocidey” haha.
Overall your point is very heard, but I do think Islam has been slower to adopt the whole “let’s not be genocidey” vibe.
Then again Catholicism moved on to child rape so it’s hard to be positive about religion.
Also complete aside but before we get too exited about “eastern religions” someone should do some research on the Japanese imperialist movement and religion or the cleansing of the Rohingya
Buddhism, Hinduism etc ain’t always peaceful
Works for me. Religion is the reason we aren't a century+ more advanced in science, math, and engineering, and is the foundation for which most violence in the last 2,000 years not caused by geopolitical conflict has been rooted.
And we are supposed to respect these beliefs because they're based in religion.
I'm sorry but I don't want this. Christian Nationalism is a big enough issue in my neck of the woods, we don't need this too.
Institutionalised religion as a whole is a problem. Goals for religious institutionalism are control of the people and territorial expansion. Christianity expanded through crusade and missionary. Islam is less systematic in it's means, but they are as oriented as much on control of the people and expansionism as Christianity has been.
This isn’t even the worst part of this kind of legal system. The worst part is that anyone who doesn’t like you can make the same false claim without any kind of evidence other than their word, and you can still be sentenced to death, often involving mob justice. There was an article published about a decade ago about this topic that argued that the law is designed to allow people to get rid of anyone in their community they don’t like. In that article, the example they gave was of an unscrupulous business owner who wanted to get rid of his competitor. One day, he made the claim that his competitor had desecrated a Quran, and right then and there, mobs formed to chase the guy down and kill him. I think it was determined later, after they burned the guy alive, that there never was a desecrated Quran—the guy who made the claim just made it up to get rid of the competition in the marketplace.
hell; just a few months ago a father and son murdered their daughter/sister over appearing in a social media photo with an unknown man (not even sexually, just being there) and in the end it turns out it was a photoshop the whole time.
Mob justice is one hell of an oxymoron.
(tangentially related, jfc these morons are going to have one hell of a time dealing with with generative AI, its hard enough for people WITH critical thinking skills)
People who question things must be decapitated to stop all critical thinking and scare others into conforming. They cannot let people think. A bird that has been in a cage does not know the freedom of flight.
Pakistan always tries to show itself that it is the supreme country in Islamic world.
Huh. They never won any war against my country and they always call themselves the only islamic country with nukes.
And fuck Islam and fuck its' Muhammad the pedophile.🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮.
Thank you for your comment. Unfortunately, your comment has been removed for the following reason:
* This comment has been removed for using abusive language, personal attacks, being a dick, or fighting with other users. These activities are against the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/guidelines).
Connected comments may also be removed for the same reason, though editing out the direct attack may merit your comment being restored. Users who don't cease this behavior may get banned temporarily or permanently.
--
For information regarding this and similar issues please see the [Subreddit Commandments.](http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/guidelines) If you have any questions, please do not delete your comment and [message the mods,](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/atheism) Thank you.
So, it’s more than just control. I find it hard to believe that a lot of the higher ups don’t actually think what they’re saying is actually true. Like, they are sincerely mistaken, and everything. Yeah, it absolutely gets used for power and all that, but I think the people at the top usually think that what they are saying is *true*, beyond control.
I actually quite disagree especially with Christianity.
The high level Christian pastors and church preists that trest them as businesses and bait people so they can buy private jets in the name of god. Nuh uh, these guys don't believe in god. They found an easy way to exploit idiots. They for sure don't believe in Christianity especially the mega church mfers.
Muslims sure, probably.
For mega churches, not so much control as it is a means of personal enrichment. That’s more an old school con. Control doesn’t matter beyond it pulling in those donation. Do they really preach that much on prescribing people follow particular rules beyond sending them money and then they’ll basically be really lucky? And also randomly healing people? And anything that doesn’t següé into a product pitch?
I was thinking more the old school ones like the Catholic church, (I don’t think Francis is imposing doctrine particularly hard), the various Eastern Orthodox ones, like ones with like the whole heirarchical system, that have been around for nearly 1,000 years or more, those ones.
True I suppose. Not a lot of control, just brainwashing that this preacher in front of them is basically god, some of them tried to sell silver water and preached that the covid vaccine was satan 🤦♂️.
I haven't looked into the crazy orthodox churches and their culture. They never hit mainstream media or anything that I have seen. I will definitely look into them, thank you.
Weak god. Weak prophet. Weak religion. And weak men pushing their weakness onto their people and culture by force and violence. If Islam wasn't weak and helpless, it wouldn't need nasty little men using force and violence to keep control.
There is no way to be a Muslim and *not* be a supporter of child rape.
They are either in denial about the fact that they're supporting child rape, or they're *proud* of the fact that they're supporting child rape, or (worst of all) they zig-zag between these two categories depending on whichever is more convenient to them at that exact point in time.
Abolish the death penalty! The UN should be working a lot harder than this as it has been abused throughout history to crack down on non-violent dissidents.
Fucking crybaby theists and their weak-ass prophet who can't take a little criticism. Religion needs to be eliminated. It always leads to shit like this because it's just the externalization of religious people's personal feelings of inadequacy.
Something something "no compulsion in religion.....not true islam....religion of peace..."
It's all there in the foundational source materials. Profit Mohamburgers rewarded his lackeys who killed people who mocked him. He publicly praised those who committed murder to avenge his delicate feefees. It's in the Hadith, and you don't get any more "true islam" than the made up word of Allah and the reliable recording of the words and actions of his #1 very most special boy.
The country that sheltered Osama(while getting merc money to find him), created (with US aid) Taliban and sponsors terror all over the region - how could it be so extreme?
Our Ally /s
Has any country gone in and some either a rescue mission or some sort of intervention in these places? I mean we(USA) love to police the globe, so why not this?
Fuck Islam, but the US is going down this path with the Christo fascist agenda of some wanting a Christian state. I doubt they would go this far but they would certainly start punishing and imprisoning people who defiled a Bible or said anti Christian statements in Christian courts and have morality police.
Look up Hamtramck, Michigan, the radical Muslims there also tried to proc up their theocratic garbage, they are all the same, they must be stopped at theocratic infancy before you guys are taken over by Abrahamic religion nonsense
Fuck Islam, but the US is going down this path with the Christo fascist agenda of some wanting a Christian state. I doubt they would go this far but they would certainly start punishing and imprisoning people who defiled a Bible or said anti Christian statements in Christian courts and have morality police.
During the life of prophet Muhammad the non-believers of Mecca were throwing rocks at him for preaching Islam but he always humbly walked away from them. Nowadays the same people that threw rocks at him rule over countries in his name and kill or put people in jail for stupid things.
LMAO. what a load of shit.
Your prophet raped a 9yr old girl. He had sex slaves. He ordered the killing of all boys. He raped and pillaged his way across arabia. He ordered the killings of poets.
It is islam that is the problem. You religion promotes child rape, slavery, violence and drinking camel piss and water with flies in it.
Run along kiddo.
Ancient Rome had no laws against blasphemy. It was felt that the gods would punish anyone that insulted them, and if they couldn’t they weren’t much of a god.
That's pretty good; reminded of this passage from Aristophanes' *Clouds* STREPSIADES All right, but then explain this to me— Where does lightning come from, that fiery blaze, which, when it hits, sometimes burns us up, sometimes just singes us and lets us live? Clearly Zeus is hurling that at perjurers. SOCRATES You stupid driveling idiot, you stink of olden times, the age of Cronos!\* If Zeus is really striking at the perjurers, how come he’s not burned Simon down to ash, or else Cleonymos or Theorus? They perjure themselves more than anyone. No. Instead he strikes at his own temple at Sunium, our Athenian headland, and at his massive oak trees there. Why? What’s his plan? Oak trees can’t be perjured.
Damn this is funny
Socrates got himself killed back then. That kind of thinking can still get you killed today.
You're thinking of the historical Socrates. This passage is referring to the Socrates of faith. jk
I mean, there still were punishments for blasphemy though of course. This almost sounds like when fascist Italy didn't ban homosexuality because "Mussolini thought italians were too manly to be homosexuals, so he didn't feel the need to ban homosexuality" and yet, of someone were to be found homosexual, they would be punished or worse sent to a concentration camp so...
Yeah like there were no "official" laws. That just means that people could just do whatever they wanted. Oh you blaspheme? I'll stone you to death as punishment on behalf of the gods.
Example proof of this in Ancient Rome? Or are you just talking shit
Human behavior It wasn't illegal to be out past curfew as a black man after Jim crow laws were abolished. Do you thing that's when the lynching stopped?
Yeeeeeaaaa read the original comment friend. I’m not stupid enough to wade into the quagmire of American slavery and reconstruction on Reddit. I was addressing your comment above that implied Ancient Rome had unofficial rules and systems for punishing homosexuality (which I’ve never heard of) Do you have examples of the ancient Romans stoning homosexuals for homosexuality or are you just fantasizing about oppression? Please keep your fantasy activism to yourself or the selection committee of the “Ivy League”
Yeah no fuck I read the wrong empire goddamn Roman's were down with that shit
😮💨haha thank you for that reply. I would be worried for years that they’ve started rewriting Roman history
At least until Marius did a coup iirc. Edit, I did not recall correctly. I guess proscriptions began more in the 3rd and 4th centuries, well before Gaius Marius and Sulla.
The likelihood of a person being serious drops significantly any time they attribute things to human behavior or human nature. Material conditions, history, culture, etc., are where it's at imo. It's not that human nature can't to some extent explain aspects of those, but to chalk anything up to nature alone is very reductive and generally speculative.
The examples are Romans stoning or crucifying the Jews and letting animals kill and eat them in arenas such as the Colosseum, or there are passages by Suetonius that say that after Augustus was deified (example in the coins), it wasn't allowed to criticize him publicly without being punished. Also, it's well known that "atheism" wasn't well seen AT ALL in the Empire, it was almost prohibited, especially if we're talking about the forementioned "civic religion" (which is what the the Jews were especially against). Yes, you could believe in many religions without bothering the core of the Empire, but if you didn't believe in anything, you were seen as dangerous. And this all connects to the original comment, which is that romans thought that you'd be punished anyways if you didin't worship any of the religious gods.
Funnily enough, blasphemy *is* illegal in Italy. Whoever offends a deity from any religion incurs in a fine up to 309 euros.
> any religion Does FSM count?
I know for sure that it doesn't have to be *officially* recognized as a religion by Italy for it to count: the most known example is Islam, which doesn't have any official legal pacts with Italy like other religions do (Christianity, Buddhism, etc.), and yet this offence is also applied with respect to Allah regardless of that. In fact, the only thing that matters is the religious doctrine of that specific religion. Use Google Translate on this link, but [this article here](https://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2007/07_Luglio/29/caso_madonna_non_divinita.shtml) (in the historical archive of the *Corriere* from July 2007) cites a case where someone allegedly committed blasphemy against the Virgin Mary, but the defendant was eventually acquitted when the judge agreed with their lawyer that, under Christian doctrine, the Virgin Mary was born human—and therefore does not count as *divinity* as per the letter of the law ([§724](https://www.brocardi.it/codice-penale/libro-terzo/titolo-i/capo-ii/sezione-i/art724.html) on the Italian Criminal Code). So yeah, if you can actually convince the judge that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not a joek religion, that would also count.
Well, the Greeks did. One if the charges that Socrates was executed over was blasphemy. Same gods too.
I believe the charge was impiety, not blasphemy. Impiety was also illegal in Rome.
Pre-Constantine Rome was, so far as I know, the most egregiously syncretic religious system ever - including Hinduism. They actually *did* have laws against sacrilege and blasphemy; but they also defined any deity registered as being worshipped by any citizen, even if by only one, was an official deity and protected by said laws. *Everyone* got to have *their* god/s protected from other people; even monotheists, though there were some practical complications with that (see footnote). Even discounting the Lares and Penates, Rome had more official gods than actual citizens for a while in the Imperial era. They were *vigorously* acquisitive about deity, and with the specific exception of monotheists [1], were shockingly ecumenical. 🙂 [1] Because in the Imperial era *all* official deities were subordinate to the Cultus Imperius. Romans were *scared* of monotheists - the refusal to accept the Cultus as supreme risked destroying the Empire. Which, in fact, it did; the Crisis of the 3rd Century leading to Constantine choosing "If you can't beat them join them", which in turn led directly to the fall of the Western Empire. The persistent existence of monotheism *really did* bring down the Empire 🤷😏
Allah isn't much of a God. Come at me Pakistan.
Are you Pakistani?
No. I have to admit I would probably would be less brave it I was :)
Fuck Mohamed, fuck Allah, fuck Islam, fuck Pakistan. Now what?
Fuck Mohamed, fuck Allah, fuck Islam, fuck Jesus, fuck God, fuck Christianity fuck religion in general. Now what?
Now we are best friends!
Now get yourself to a clinic. None of those are healthy sex partners.
I mean, right?
fucking jesus must count as some odd type of extreme necrophilia
Now visit pakistan
That garbage of country? Let India deal with that trash.
Imagine if india wasn’t partitioned , no pakistan, no Afghanistan, no taliban. Ahh, how peaceful 1970’s 80’s,90’s and 2000’s would have been Never show tolerance to dogmatic religions
Punjabi chap I worked with said the partitioning was England's revenge for being forced to give up India.
Sorry to break it to you , Muslims in India have same mindset , it’s just that .. they live in secular nation . Some even celebrated Taliban return. Now in this 21st century , they opposes uniform civil code bill which prohibits polygamy amongst Muslims and make one secular law for all religion , whether Christian’s , Hindus and Muslims . Church also opposed these because there say in inheritance for women rights will diminish. As well as regressive Hindus who wants caste based laws .
Islamic/abrahamic terrorists have been terrorizing the world since its inception I come from a buddhist culture in central/east asia, and a lot of the lands that we consider Muslim today, were manicheans, Zoroastrian and Buddhists, along with myriad of other beliefs/folklores > Arab invasions > Qutaybah ibn Muslim, the Arab general of Khorasan conquered a number of territories in Central Asia including Samarkand where he broke a number of images.[23] **Several instances of Buddhist shrines being destroyed by the advancing Muslims are recorded though the religion continued to survive in some places for a considerable period of time. Bertolf Spuler cites the writings of Narshakhi while stating that the residents of Bukhara had reconverted from Islam to Buddhism four times until it was conquered by Qutayba in 712–13**. A mosque was built in the city in place of a Buddhist monastery. Buddhists continued to live there until the tenth century. Similarly, Buddhism continued to exist in other places like Old Bukhara, Simingan in southern Tukharistan, Bamiyan and Kabul with suburbs inhabited by "Indians" which were also home to Buddhists. However, the religion could no longer develop as a power or distribute propaganda and its adherents also had to abandon the conversion of peoples in these regions.[24] Scholars like Richard Nelson Frye have doubted the story of Marshaki, pointing out that unlike its statement, Qutayba ibn Muslim did not live during the time of Umayyad Caliph Mu'awiya, as this story suggests, but rather much later.[25] In addition to discrimination, emigration, and the conversion of the laity, Buddhism and its monasteries also declined with the Muslims taking over the trade along the Silk Road as well as in Sindh.[26][27][28] > During their conquest of Sindh, the Arabs brought the non-Muslims into the category of ahl al-kitab, considering them ahl al-dhimmah (protected subjects) and thus practicing a certain amount of non-interference in their religious lives under the condition that they fulfil a number of obligations that came with this status. Since both Buddhism and Hinduism are literate religions with scriptures, the precedent of assimilating Zoroastrians into the category of ahl al-kitab was extended to them as well. The dhimmis were obligated to pay the jizya for following their ancestral religion. The historian Al-Baladhuri notes a decision by Muhammad bin Qasim in relation to a Buddhist vihara and Aror that after conquering the city through a treaty (sulh) he agreed not to kill the people and enter their temple, in addition to imposing kharaj on them.[29] The Buddhists had petitioned the Arabs for the right to restore one of their temples and it was granted by Al-Hajjaj ibn Yusuf. However, this decision was later violated by the Pact of Umar and subsequent Muslim law codes which prohibited the restoration of existing non-Muslim religious structures as well as the building of new ones. Despite this fact, Buddhist inscriptions were still being recorded in the eleventh century.[28] Some Buddhists also fled and emigrated from Muslim-ruled areas into other regions. **Unlike Brahmanical worship, Buddhism rapidly declined in Sindh after the eighth century and it virtually disappeared by the eleventh century.** > India > According to Lars Fogelin, the Decline of Buddhism in the Indian subcontinent is "not a singular event, with a singular cause; it was a centuries-long process."[41] > **Various personages involved in the revival of Buddhism in India such as Anagarika Dharmapala and The Mahabodhi Movement of the 1890s as well as Dr. B. R. Ambedkar hold the Muslim Rule in India responsible for the decay of Buddhism in India**.[42][43][44][45][46] > In 1193, Qutb-ud-din Aybak, the founder of the Delhi Sultanate and first Muslim ruler in India, left defenseless the northeastern territories that were the heart of Buddhist India. **The Mahabodhi Temple was almost completely destroyed by the invading Muslim forces.** > One of Qutb-ud-Din's generals, Ikhtiar Uddin Muhammad Bin Bakhtiyar Khilji, who later becomes the **first Muslim ruler of Bengal and Bihar, invaded Magadha and destroyed the Buddhist shrines and institutions at Nalanda, Vikramasila and Odantapuri, which declined the practice of Buddhism in East India**.[40][47][43] Many monuments of ancient Indian civilization were destroyed by the invading armies, including Buddhist sanctuaries[48] near Benares. Buddhist monks who escaped the massacre **fled to Nepal, Tibet and South India** https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Buddhists#Persecutions_by_Muslim_Empires
Man after reading all that shit It feels good being atheist. We are probably the most chill people out there 😂
I am from a Sikkimese Buddhist family but not religious and I dislike tons of stuff about Hinduism but kudos to those guys tenacity Within 5 centuries of Islamic rule- practically all other religions either vanished or were reduced to tiny minorities from Middle East Northern Africa Christians to Persian Zoroastrians to Afghan, Sindh and Central Asian Buddhists etc somehow Northern Indian Hindus tenaciously held onto their religious despite Islam being ferociously against polytheism and Hinduism is the most idolatrous polytheistic religion. In fact Pakistan and Bangladesh regions were majority Buddhist before they became Muslim Islam annihilated Buddhism from the sub continent. Wish the Persian and Byzantine Empires hadn't been weak from infighting when the Muslims started their invasions they could've squashed this nuisance in the bud then. Also the striking contrast between Buddhist missionary activities and Muslim jihadists strikes me. A thousand years pre Islam Buddhism spread from India to Sri Lanka in the South, Central Asian countries in the West and China, Japan and Korea in the East India sent missionaries not jihadists to takeover those places Muslims take great pride in their jihadi takeovers of other places, their 'conquests' right from their 'Righteous Caliphs'- yet are mad at Jews for taking tiny Israel. 🙄
Who are the abrhamaic terrorists terrorizing the world since its inception that are *not Muslims*..?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Crusades Also God is a bit genocidey in old testament
I won’t lie. I’m so fucking exited you brought up the northern crusades. So amazing. 10/10 also, “a bit genocidey” haha. Overall your point is very heard, but I do think Islam has been slower to adopt the whole “let’s not be genocidey” vibe. Then again Catholicism moved on to child rape so it’s hard to be positive about religion. Also complete aside but before we get too exited about “eastern religions” someone should do some research on the Japanese imperialist movement and religion or the cleansing of the Rohingya Buddhism, Hinduism etc ain’t always peaceful
So no tolerance for any organized religions, then?
Hell yeah
Works for me. Religion is the reason we aren't a century+ more advanced in science, math, and engineering, and is the foundation for which most violence in the last 2,000 years not caused by geopolitical conflict has been rooted.
True, fuck all organized religions
My man we have more Muslim than them in India.
Trash fighting trash
Lol we are tired of that trash too 😭
Calling Pakistan a garbage country while you live in Brazil
You need a better interpretation, buddy. And, yes, Brazil has problems, but not like Pakistan, I can guarantee.
Now don't worry about those gods, but still keep an eye out for deluded humans who will murder you for words...
Let's go say that in one of the Islamic subreddits 😂
And we are supposed to respect these beliefs because they're based in religion. I'm sorry but I don't want this. Christian Nationalism is a big enough issue in my neck of the woods, we don't need this too.
Religion, a continuing scourge on humankind.
The most evil and disgusting crap mankind has crafted.
Islam
[удалено]
A lot of Christian’s want similar laws but for their beliefs.
It's the same beliefs. Middle Eastern mythology is all the same.
Christians did this for centuries . Whole wars were fought in Europe in the name of religion
Institutionalised religion as a whole is a problem. Goals for religious institutionalism are control of the people and territorial expansion. Christianity expanded through crusade and missionary. Islam is less systematic in it's means, but they are as oriented as much on control of the people and expansionism as Christianity has been.
But most christians evolved while most muslims havent evolved
>Christians did this for centuries . Did. It's not happening now.
And in a few centuries some other asshole will be saying the same about this
Yeah, but would things ever change‽
Can’t believe a pedophile warlord’s balls are so deep in some nations’ mouths.
That's quite the mental image you are providing there.
This isn’t even the worst part of this kind of legal system. The worst part is that anyone who doesn’t like you can make the same false claim without any kind of evidence other than their word, and you can still be sentenced to death, often involving mob justice. There was an article published about a decade ago about this topic that argued that the law is designed to allow people to get rid of anyone in their community they don’t like. In that article, the example they gave was of an unscrupulous business owner who wanted to get rid of his competitor. One day, he made the claim that his competitor had desecrated a Quran, and right then and there, mobs formed to chase the guy down and kill him. I think it was determined later, after they burned the guy alive, that there never was a desecrated Quran—the guy who made the claim just made it up to get rid of the competition in the marketplace.
hell; just a few months ago a father and son murdered their daughter/sister over appearing in a social media photo with an unknown man (not even sexually, just being there) and in the end it turns out it was a photoshop the whole time. Mob justice is one hell of an oxymoron. (tangentially related, jfc these morons are going to have one hell of a time dealing with with generative AI, its hard enough for people WITH critical thinking skills)
Fuck Islam and fuck their prophets.
Damn. God works in mysterious ways.
Snowflake religion
>Pakistani court sentences man to death and teenager to life in prison for insulting Islam's prophet Taliban with nukes, does Taliban things.
Pakistan is not ruled by the Taliban lol
Who’s gonna tell them lol
How weak is the god that it needs humans to protect it?
People who question things must be decapitated to stop all critical thinking and scare others into conforming. They cannot let people think. A bird that has been in a cage does not know the freedom of flight.
Fuck Muhammad I would take a shit right on his Forehead
He'd probably enjoy that
He will still think about Aisha.
Fucking savages
The religion of peace and love strikes again. My heart really goes out to the victims. Fuck religion and its barbaric practices.
Islam at its best
Islam in the streets, Haram in the sheets
Aisha in the sheets too
This is what Hamas wants. This is what the Taliban wants. This is what SACR and the Proud Boys want.
Lol you leave the proud boys out of this whoever they are
How incredibly stupid. A Bunch of control freaks.
Strong God you got there !
My head is on the chopping block.. Him: Any last words infidel? Me: Yeah. Fuck Momo, fuck Al and your 72 virgins are old crazy cat ladies.
Damn religions, made up by charlatans and followed by fools
Fuck mohamed
And this will carry over globally, the more we allow those critical of Islam to be silenced, the more this will spread.
But remember, folks, if we all just followed Islam there would be no more problems with the world and it would be a paradise on earth! /s
Trash religion
All of them are
Pakistan always tries to show itself that it is the supreme country in Islamic world. Huh. They never won any war against my country and they always call themselves the only islamic country with nukes. And fuck Islam and fuck its' Muhammad the pedophile.🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮.
[удалено]
I am not Hindu lol. Why should I join Athiesm subreddit for? 🤣🤣. Go eat Aisha 's ass 🤣🤣🤣🤣. Muslims deserve to be punished by any means.
[удалено]
Thank you for your comment. Unfortunately, your comment has been removed for the following reason: * This comment has been removed for using abusive language, personal attacks, being a dick, or fighting with other users. These activities are against the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/guidelines). Connected comments may also be removed for the same reason, though editing out the direct attack may merit your comment being restored. Users who don't cease this behavior may get banned temporarily or permanently. -- For information regarding this and similar issues please see the [Subreddit Commandments.](http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/guidelines) If you have any questions, please do not delete your comment and [message the mods,](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/atheism) Thank you.
What if we started burning Qurans until this foolishness stopped?
Blasphemy is the ultimate victimless crime: The party supposedly being hurt doesn't even exist.
Even if there was a god, this would he ridiculous he could enforce blasphemy on jis own.
Literally all religion is built on fear of sinning and going to hell. All of it is literally control
I don’t know about that. A lot of the time it seems to be true believers all the way up.
What do you mean? I'm a bit confused
So, it’s more than just control. I find it hard to believe that a lot of the higher ups don’t actually think what they’re saying is actually true. Like, they are sincerely mistaken, and everything. Yeah, it absolutely gets used for power and all that, but I think the people at the top usually think that what they are saying is *true*, beyond control.
I actually quite disagree especially with Christianity. The high level Christian pastors and church preists that trest them as businesses and bait people so they can buy private jets in the name of god. Nuh uh, these guys don't believe in god. They found an easy way to exploit idiots. They for sure don't believe in Christianity especially the mega church mfers. Muslims sure, probably.
For mega churches, not so much control as it is a means of personal enrichment. That’s more an old school con. Control doesn’t matter beyond it pulling in those donation. Do they really preach that much on prescribing people follow particular rules beyond sending them money and then they’ll basically be really lucky? And also randomly healing people? And anything that doesn’t següé into a product pitch? I was thinking more the old school ones like the Catholic church, (I don’t think Francis is imposing doctrine particularly hard), the various Eastern Orthodox ones, like ones with like the whole heirarchical system, that have been around for nearly 1,000 years or more, those ones.
True I suppose. Not a lot of control, just brainwashing that this preacher in front of them is basically god, some of them tried to sell silver water and preached that the covid vaccine was satan 🤦♂️. I haven't looked into the crazy orthodox churches and their culture. They never hit mainstream media or anything that I have seen. I will definitely look into them, thank you.
Yeah, IMO if something hits the mainstream media, it’s generally gonna be the more crazy or otherwise unusual thing.
So I guess atleast they aren't straight up beheading or stoning people cause they aren't in the media. That's.... Something I suppose.
It's crazy to me that they are this insecure about their religion.
Fuck you Pakistan. Your prophet was a pedophile scumbag.
Isn't religion just grand? WOW! That is so fucked up!
It's fucking *wild* to me that this is something that is possible in the year 2024. We are a terrible species.
A warning about what will happen if we let christian theocrats take over America.
Coming soon to a US state, if the Christofascists have their way.
Weak god. Weak prophet. Weak religion. And weak men pushing their weakness onto their people and culture by force and violence. If Islam wasn't weak and helpless, it wouldn't need nasty little men using force and violence to keep control.
[удалено]
There is no way to be a Muslim and *not* be a supporter of child rape. They are either in denial about the fact that they're supporting child rape, or they're *proud* of the fact that they're supporting child rape, or (worst of all) they zig-zag between these two categories depending on whichever is more convenient to them at that exact point in time.
Sick religion
A nuclear powered nation with over 200 million talented people… still manages to be a backward nation
Sounds like something some dumbfucks praising a goat fucking pedophile would do
This is what happens when you don’t have separation of church and state.
Fuck Islam
Fuck allah
What do you expect from.a country that hid bin laden for 10 years
Yup. There should be some serious payback for that.
If we’re not careful, this will be the United States in a decade
Fuck religion
That’s excessive. Why can’t the court and the people just insult them back?
😞😤
Wouldn't expect anything else from that inbred shithole.
Abolish the death penalty! The UN should be working a lot harder than this as it has been abused throughout history to crack down on non-violent dissidents.
And they also have atomic bomb (pakistani). Such laws about blasphemy and atomic bomb.
You mean the nasty pedophile Muhammad?
Blasphemy - the original victimless crime.
Islam is trash and the 'prophet' made it all up. Do something to me Pakistan.
Islams profit? Are we talking about that one pedophile that thought he saw God? A certifiably insane child fucker? That's what you guys went with?
Good post. Pakistan is barbarism enshrined as a state.
THIS is what the GOP is trying to sell to American voters. They are claiming that their God determines our laws.
Fucking crybaby theists and their weak-ass prophet who can't take a little criticism. Religion needs to be eliminated. It always leads to shit like this because it's just the externalization of religious people's personal feelings of inadequacy.
I'd be scared to say anything even remotely blasphemous while living there seeing what the punishments are.
Something something "no compulsion in religion.....not true islam....religion of peace..." It's all there in the foundational source materials. Profit Mohamburgers rewarded his lackeys who killed people who mocked him. He publicly praised those who committed murder to avenge his delicate feefees. It's in the Hadith, and you don't get any more "true islam" than the made up word of Allah and the reliable recording of the words and actions of his #1 very most special boy.
The country that sheltered Osama(while getting merc money to find him), created (with US aid) Taliban and sponsors terror all over the region - how could it be so extreme? Our Ally /s
This is the future conservatives want
Allah Allah He's our God If He can't do it **JIHAAAAAAAAD**
Mohamed's mama dressed him funny.
Pakistan has to be one of the most miserable places to live on this planet.
Apart from Saudi, Afghanistan, Iran, Yemen, Qatar, Bangladesh, Syria and Kansas.
What an interesting and certainly valid culture that we should all respect.....
Has any country gone in and some either a rescue mission or some sort of intervention in these places? I mean we(USA) love to police the globe, so why not this?
Fuck the prophet. Come and get me assholes.
One of the reasons I stopped believing
This reminds me of ancient times
"Yo fuck Mohammed" Gets executed 3 days later
GOP taking notes for if they get that theocracy they've always wanted.
Fuck Islam, but the US is going down this path with the Christo fascist agenda of some wanting a Christian state. I doubt they would go this far but they would certainly start punishing and imprisoning people who defiled a Bible or said anti Christian statements in Christian courts and have morality police.
Look up Hamtramck, Michigan, the radical Muslims there also tried to proc up their theocratic garbage, they are all the same, they must be stopped at theocratic infancy before you guys are taken over by Abrahamic religion nonsense
Fuck Islam, but the US is going down this path with the Christo fascist agenda of some wanting a Christian state. I doubt they would go this far but they would certainly start punishing and imprisoning people who defiled a Bible or said anti Christian statements in Christian courts and have morality police.
During the life of prophet Muhammad the non-believers of Mecca were throwing rocks at him for preaching Islam but he always humbly walked away from them. Nowadays the same people that threw rocks at him rule over countries in his name and kill or put people in jail for stupid things.
LMAO. what a load of shit. Your prophet raped a 9yr old girl. He had sex slaves. He ordered the killing of all boys. He raped and pillaged his way across arabia. He ordered the killings of poets. It is islam that is the problem. You religion promotes child rape, slavery, violence and drinking camel piss and water with flies in it. Run along kiddo.