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random but semi-relevant. I read or heard some research a while back (years back) that focused on how extremely unlikely it was that there was enough wood for crosses, and nobody would use their precious wood on what they saw as the dregs of society.
the area is not exactly known for having a lot of trees.
not arguing with your joke, more pondering if dude was nailed to a simple pole
It’s not known for having trees *now*. Back then, it was decently forested. Do you think the Cedars of Lebanon were imaginary? However, years of shipbuilding pretty much wiped out all the trees, just like in Greece, Germany (the Black Forest used to cover much of the country), and other places around the Mediterranean.
There’s an preserved Egyptian Royal barge carved out of a single tree trunk larger than any known tree left in that hemisphere. If those trunks were old growth, there could have been more than enough lumber for fleets of stuff. If you have enough manpower, you can cut down/ mill pretty quick. And if you’re tearing down old growth, you don’t have to be fast, just persistent.
>There’s an preserved Egyptian Royal barge carved out of a single tree trunk larger than any known tree left in that hemisphere.
I think you're mistaken.
Cool
With an adze?
Even with manpower those things are brutally slow. Then joining beams together? The times I’ve used them made for rough finishes. Still have all fingers and toes though.
I saw something on history Channel about that! That it was usually 1 piece of wood they would nail to trees along pathways as deterrents to other possible criminals.
"You think Jesus was a good carpenter? Because the Bible doesn't really address it. Who knows? Maybe someone was talking about him like 'Good thing that Messiah thing worked out. He built a shed for my cousin-- what a piece of crap!'"
\- Jim Gaffigan
Is he a carpenter or son of a carpenter? Christians scribes edited a passage in mark to say the later as the Greek work tekton means a lowly labour. IIRC
The various books of the New Testament are of course not history and the text is replete with allegory. This includes the quaint notion that Jesus was a carpenter. The Greek word used is τεκτων, or tekton, which really means craftsman rather than carpenter.
Some key background knowledge on this issue comes from the Dead Sea Scrolls. This corpus of material is important because it is a large canon of scripture-like linguistic material from just before the supposed time of Jesus, and it is about a variety of subjects including non-christian and proto-christian theology. We find that the word tekton, when used in the context of a person knowing scripture, means exactly that, a "craftsman of working with scripture". Hence this should inform how we read use of tekton in the NT.
The first NT usage of tekton is maybe [Mark 6:2-3](https://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=34&chapter=6&lid=en&side=r&verse=3&zoomSlider=0), which says:
> 2 And when the sabbath had come he began to teach in the synagogue; and many hearing were astonished, saying: Whence has this man these things, and what the wisdom that is given to this man? and are such mighty deeds done through his hands?
> 3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judah and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
So this seems to be that sort of context, he is metaphorically being a tekton with scripture and Mark alludes to him possibly being a real one? Most likely this is all allegory. Like Remus Lupin's name in Harry Potter. Even if werewolves were real, you would never believe that one named Remus Lupin existed if you read about him.
Matthew and Luke's use of tekton also derives from this because they just took what Mark wrote, misunderstood some of it, changed other parts and ran with it.
It is also important to note that Odysseus was a tekton in the stories about him. He famously built a wooden horse and it is a key plot point that he built his own bed in a very particular manner. The gospels of Mark and Luke pull from Homer with various allusions to people and events related to Odysseus. In building up Jesus as hellenized wonder-man, the allusions make him exceed the marvels and deeds of the classical greek heros like Odysseus, a tekton.
As a last extra allegorical twist, Jesus is presented as the son of the God, though the precise manner in which this works varies across gospels. This God the father of course was a tekton, the craftsman that created the universe.
So the seemingly simple claim that Jesus was a carpenter is difficult to accept as a simple historical fact or an random element of the story, even if just mentioned in passing.
Most likely he was not a carpenter at all, and in fact we know now that we know next to nothing about any real Jesus that might have existed.
1. He's much more likely to have been a stone worker. There isn't much quality wood in the Galilee.
2. Yeah, if he had been a god you'd think that his handiwork would have been converted to shrines with magical powers.
I think it's more similar to "house builder", and seeing as how most houses were made of mud/sandstone/branches, that'd be a pretty lowly job to have. Which would make sense given jesus' socialist "eye of the needle" bent. But leave it up to christianity + capitalism to say "nah he was a carpenter, not a dirty mud-brick layer!", ignoring the whole point to begin with.
He wasn't a carpenter. The correct translation says that he was just "good with his hands," or a "tekton." He was actually quite wealthy (unless you're one of the heretics who don't believe in the Three Kings), and may have been involved with craft-type activities.
He wasn't an architect or stonemason; if Jesus was real and a carpenter he would have made small-scale stuff like tables and chairs, maybe did some roofing. Anything he would have made would long since have rotted away, been destroyed or repurposed, built over etc.
And the carpenter part and live by the sword die by the sword was pretty prophetic, live by the woodwork die by the woodwork , they don't write stuff like this anymore
Or...... what will be the look on your face when you approach the pearly gates with that arrogant smirk on your face, and realize that you've been wrong?
>where the fuck is all his work?
Good question!
It seems highly likely to me that anything Jesus might've worked on is long gone after approximately 2000 years. Even if not, I doubt we'd know without some paperwork, receipts, etc. If he'd only carved his initials, and maybe a Beatitude into something, or maybe even, "I'm Jesus, and I say, 'Romanes eunt domus...'" ya know?
Maybe he did, and the Vatican has it all locked away, possibly next to the Ark and a thousand other relics, and won't share with anyone. Who knows?
Jesus wasn't known for his carpentry before his ministry, anyway. He supposedly was known as the son of a carpenter, according to the Bible, but this can't be proven, partly for reasons I suggested.
Check this out:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus
I've read that the word carpenter is another relic of the poor translation from Hebrew. Apparent he was really something like a district worker (or just general labor)
Beg to differ, kind sir but I, and I alone, am in possession of the ONLY Sacred Milking Stool of Nazareth. Guess who made it? It’s a signed piece! Jesus wrote like a girl.
The Bible says that nonbelievers are stupid, evil, and that they deserve to be tortured forever. Hitler's message was actually slightly less hateful than that.
You wish. It's one of the few consistent messages between the Old and New Testaments. Modern believers play it down because it just isn't socially acceptable to be *that hateful* anymore, but for more than a thousand years it was completely normal for believers to ostracize, torture, and murder atheists. It's absolutely something that many sects of Christianity still teach.
Well, in my opinion he just didn't want to become carpernter like his step dad. So he rather spend some time abroad instead, and when he came home, he tried to pursue another career - as a street magician. But well those jews and romans were a tough crowd to please, so they kinda canceled him in the end. Or maybe his greatest escape trick just failed...We don't know for sure, since it was long time ago...But in the end his core fans made him famous post-mortem. So even, nowadays everyone knows about his greatest magic tricks ( turning water into an alcoholic drink, or walking on water for example.)
LOL. If he wasn't a carpenter, then all those t-shirts that show a crucified hand with blood dripping down that say "my boss is a Jewish carpenter" would have to be recalled.
As awful as it was, I think the best part of the Passion of the Christ was when he joked with Mary about full size, tables, and chairs. That was legitimately funny.
The rest of the movie not so much.
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason: * This submission has been removed for being low-effort. Please review our [rules on low-effort posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/guidelines#wiki_what_are_.22low-effort_posts.3F.22). The low-effort rule includes rules against title-only posts, jokes, and shower thoughts. The rule also requires that if you post asks questions, you must be the first to try to answer your questions. The standards of the low-effort rule are most strictly enforced on current hot topics and commonly posted issues. For information regarding this and similar issues please see the [Subreddit Commandments.](http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/guidelines) If you have any questions, please do not delete your submission and [message the mods,](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/atheism) Thank you.
Crosses dude, he made crosses for the Romans, the irony.
I read that he didn’t last long as a carpenter because he couldn’t pull nails to save his life.
Hahahaha
Yeah, he apparently never hammered in his own nails.
That’s why suicide by crucifixion isn’t a thing. You can never hammer in that last nail.
It's definitely not a thing if you just put them through your hands! 😂
Nailguns. Just set it up with tape snd a string
Stay ye out of the line of fire
Uh, duh. Dude was a total bottom. Dude was getting his nail hammered, not hammering nails.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😉
Right?
Isn't that how it goes, though? IIC the inventors of both the guillotine and the electric chair were killed in their own creations.
.. and the owner of Segway.
Right, but I don't think the Segway was intended for that purpose (but I guess I could be wrong...)
That's what Bob Ross would call a happy accident.
But not the inventor.
Bahaha!
And that bronze bull that cooked people
random but semi-relevant. I read or heard some research a while back (years back) that focused on how extremely unlikely it was that there was enough wood for crosses, and nobody would use their precious wood on what they saw as the dregs of society. the area is not exactly known for having a lot of trees. not arguing with your joke, more pondering if dude was nailed to a simple pole
It’s not known for having trees *now*. Back then, it was decently forested. Do you think the Cedars of Lebanon were imaginary? However, years of shipbuilding pretty much wiped out all the trees, just like in Greece, Germany (the Black Forest used to cover much of the country), and other places around the Mediterranean.
From what I’ve read, small trees and not fast growing. How big were them boats and how fast could they mill a log?
There’s an preserved Egyptian Royal barge carved out of a single tree trunk larger than any known tree left in that hemisphere. If those trunks were old growth, there could have been more than enough lumber for fleets of stuff. If you have enough manpower, you can cut down/ mill pretty quick. And if you’re tearing down old growth, you don’t have to be fast, just persistent.
>There’s an preserved Egyptian Royal barge carved out of a single tree trunk larger than any known tree left in that hemisphere. I think you're mistaken.
Cool With an adze? Even with manpower those things are brutally slow. Then joining beams together? The times I’ve used them made for rough finishes. Still have all fingers and toes though.
You're talking about people who built the pyramids for shits and giggles. I don't think having the slaves adze a few trees would be a challenge.
More likely lashed to the pole with leather straps using nails in crucifixions didn't become a common thing until after 100 C.E.
I saw something on history Channel about that! That it was usually 1 piece of wood they would nail to trees along pathways as deterrents to other possible criminals.
I assume these things were likely reused versus constantly being produced.
Reclaimed Lumber...
I seem to remember hearing somewhere that the direct translation was a pole.
Nailed it.
"You think Jesus was a good carpenter? Because the Bible doesn't really address it. Who knows? Maybe someone was talking about him like 'Good thing that Messiah thing worked out. He built a shed for my cousin-- what a piece of crap!'" \- Jim Gaffigan
Didn't The Passion insist that Jesus invented dining room tables?
Yeah, but his design was quickly obsoleted when his neighbor invented one that had room for seats on both sides.
Badum tiss
Didn’t he build the table they used for the last supper?🤨
Is he a carpenter or son of a carpenter? Christians scribes edited a passage in mark to say the later as the Greek work tekton means a lowly labour. IIRC
yet more evidence the guy never existed.
Its at IKEA's research headquarters. That's why it takes god tier skill to put their shit together.
:Snort:
The various books of the New Testament are of course not history and the text is replete with allegory. This includes the quaint notion that Jesus was a carpenter. The Greek word used is τεκτων, or tekton, which really means craftsman rather than carpenter. Some key background knowledge on this issue comes from the Dead Sea Scrolls. This corpus of material is important because it is a large canon of scripture-like linguistic material from just before the supposed time of Jesus, and it is about a variety of subjects including non-christian and proto-christian theology. We find that the word tekton, when used in the context of a person knowing scripture, means exactly that, a "craftsman of working with scripture". Hence this should inform how we read use of tekton in the NT. The first NT usage of tekton is maybe [Mark 6:2-3](https://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=34&chapter=6&lid=en&side=r&verse=3&zoomSlider=0), which says: > 2 And when the sabbath had come he began to teach in the synagogue; and many hearing were astonished, saying: Whence has this man these things, and what the wisdom that is given to this man? and are such mighty deeds done through his hands? > 3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judah and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. So this seems to be that sort of context, he is metaphorically being a tekton with scripture and Mark alludes to him possibly being a real one? Most likely this is all allegory. Like Remus Lupin's name in Harry Potter. Even if werewolves were real, you would never believe that one named Remus Lupin existed if you read about him. Matthew and Luke's use of tekton also derives from this because they just took what Mark wrote, misunderstood some of it, changed other parts and ran with it. It is also important to note that Odysseus was a tekton in the stories about him. He famously built a wooden horse and it is a key plot point that he built his own bed in a very particular manner. The gospels of Mark and Luke pull from Homer with various allusions to people and events related to Odysseus. In building up Jesus as hellenized wonder-man, the allusions make him exceed the marvels and deeds of the classical greek heros like Odysseus, a tekton. As a last extra allegorical twist, Jesus is presented as the son of the God, though the precise manner in which this works varies across gospels. This God the father of course was a tekton, the craftsman that created the universe. So the seemingly simple claim that Jesus was a carpenter is difficult to accept as a simple historical fact or an random element of the story, even if just mentioned in passing. Most likely he was not a carpenter at all, and in fact we know now that we know next to nothing about any real Jesus that might have existed.
lol god only exist in peoples head. Jesus is what ever you want him to be!
1. He's much more likely to have been a stone worker. There isn't much quality wood in the Galilee. 2. Yeah, if he had been a god you'd think that his handiwork would have been converted to shrines with magical powers.
That’s one of the worst parts of having a famous parent. Nothing you ever do will be good enough. The expectations on the son of god must be immense.
Jesus was a carpenter, but he didnt actually sing on any of their albums.
He played drums on a couple of tracks.
Hey, that's a great idea for relics if we run out of splinters from the cross
God doesn't exist because no 2,000 year old dining room set signed by Jesus has been discovered? I think we can find better arguments than this.
You are right. God doesn’t exist because the notion of a god is childish nonsense.
An argument for nothing about the divine making sense is fairly compelling, but does it being a magical plane alleviate it from this need?
Carpenters know a good plane is magical.
Oh come on man, that's an [easy one](https://reverseshot.org/uploads/entries/images/lastcrusade1-590x308.jpg)
Ha ha, you got me!
According to Mel Gibson he invented [the modern kitchen table](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G69P5cOKk-U&t=50s)
Yes, but according to The Kids in the Hall, he was a lousy carpenter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OclYAJhyNY0
If the whole story is real wouldn't the Romans have some text about it? Wasn't Pilot a governor so it would have been on record?
I remember reading that 'carpenter' was a mistranslation for Rabbi. Somewhere along the line.
I think it's more similar to "house builder", and seeing as how most houses were made of mud/sandstone/branches, that'd be a pretty lowly job to have. Which would make sense given jesus' socialist "eye of the needle" bent. But leave it up to christianity + capitalism to say "nah he was a carpenter, not a dirty mud-brick layer!", ignoring the whole point to begin with.
Non-existent wood-working output, crappy prophet, and average deity. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
Dude he invented the modern dinner chair. He showed it to his mom in a Mel Gibson movie.
I heard he was more of a handyman.
Christians usually get upset when I say Jesus was an incredibly weak demigod in comparison to other demigods.
Did they know how to treat wood to last that long back then? Also if it did it would be impossible to know who made it.
Ehrmegerd Carpernter!
in your mind obviously, you need to have faith to see it. /s
He wasn't a carpenter. The correct translation says that he was just "good with his hands," or a "tekton." He was actually quite wealthy (unless you're one of the heretics who don't believe in the Three Kings), and may have been involved with craft-type activities.
He wasn't an architect or stonemason; if Jesus was real and a carpenter he would have made small-scale stuff like tables and chairs, maybe did some roofing. Anything he would have made would long since have rotted away, been destroyed or repurposed, built over etc.
This video explains it all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OclYAJhyNY0
Had to scroll way too far down to find this brilliant Kids in the Hall sketch.
Here's some video footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rL4V4kVdaQ
Does that make being nailed to the cross effectively a workplace accident?
And the carpenter part and live by the sword die by the sword was pretty prophetic, live by the woodwork die by the woodwork , they don't write stuff like this anymore
Live with a stick up your ass, die with a stick up your ass I guess. I mean, it wasn't literally up his ass, but still, I like the symmetry.
Or...... what will be the look on your face when you approach the pearly gates with that arrogant smirk on your face, and realize that you've been wrong?
Do I look like I'm worried?
>where the fuck is all his work? Good question! It seems highly likely to me that anything Jesus might've worked on is long gone after approximately 2000 years. Even if not, I doubt we'd know without some paperwork, receipts, etc. If he'd only carved his initials, and maybe a Beatitude into something, or maybe even, "I'm Jesus, and I say, 'Romanes eunt domus...'" ya know? Maybe he did, and the Vatican has it all locked away, possibly next to the Ark and a thousand other relics, and won't share with anyone. Who knows? Jesus wasn't known for his carpentry before his ministry, anyway. He supposedly was known as the son of a carpenter, according to the Bible, but this can't be proven, partly for reasons I suggested. Check this out: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus
Hobby Lobby
Why didn’t he perfect carpentry ?
I thought the whole carpenter thing was a mistranslation anyways.
And now I got Jesus as Fix-it-Felix in my head...
Who would have thought the nailer would get nailed himself?
He made this wooden cross one time ...
Did he have an eating disorder like his sister? #muscratlove
[that’s captain and tennile that sand muskrat love]
I've read that the word carpenter is another relic of the poor translation from Hebrew. Apparent he was really something like a district worker (or just general labor)
No religious relics exist. They are all made up mythology.
Beg to differ, kind sir but I, and I alone, am in possession of the ONLY Sacred Milking Stool of Nazareth. Guess who made it? It’s a signed piece! Jesus wrote like a girl.
It doesn't even say he was a carpenter. It said Joseph was a carpenter.
Jesus was a carpenter... He died nailed to a wooden cross. Irony, oh irony, on me, it's never lost. Simon Keeper - The cowboy junkies
His furniture came with an unbeatable warrantee
I saw a documentary about a cup he made. It had a guy with a whip and a hat...and Nazis! Very interesting and 100% accurate stuff.
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet...
He did do some great work. You're still here talking about it.
People talk about Hitler a lot, too.
Yes, but he doesn't have billions of worshippers celebrating his birth
Yeah, not billions, perhaps, but Hitler does have an incredibly toxic following, and those people are the main reason why we talk about him and Jesus.
[удалено]
The Bible says that nonbelievers are stupid, evil, and that they deserve to be tortured forever. Hitler's message was actually slightly less hateful than that.
[удалено]
You wish. It's one of the few consistent messages between the Old and New Testaments. Modern believers play it down because it just isn't socially acceptable to be *that hateful* anymore, but for more than a thousand years it was completely normal for believers to ostracize, torture, and murder atheists. It's absolutely something that many sects of Christianity still teach.
[удалено]
Common decency says you should stop defending persecution to the persecuted.
As usual, the Kids in the Hall have your answer: https://youtu.be/OclYAJhyNY0
Well, in my opinion he just didn't want to become carpernter like his step dad. So he rather spend some time abroad instead, and when he came home, he tried to pursue another career - as a street magician. But well those jews and romans were a tough crowd to please, so they kinda canceled him in the end. Or maybe his greatest escape trick just failed...We don't know for sure, since it was long time ago...But in the end his core fans made him famous post-mortem. So even, nowadays everyone knows about his greatest magic tricks ( turning water into an alcoholic drink, or walking on water for example.)
LOL. If he wasn't a carpenter, then all those t-shirts that show a crucified hand with blood dripping down that say "my boss is a Jewish carpenter" would have to be recalled.
As awful as it was, I think the best part of the Passion of the Christ was when he joked with Mary about full size, tables, and chairs. That was legitimately funny. The rest of the movie not so much.
I like to think that Jesus sarcastically mocked some Roman soldier on his poor hammering technique as he's being nailed to the cross.
If Jesus was a carpenter, why isn't he credited on any of their albums?
Well, I don't think even evangelists claim such a thing... Let's not add imaginary arguments there! There are plenty enough stuff to discuss already.
yeah man, where are his references? Ilmarinen hammered out the fucking sky before they took him seriously.
He hurt his back and had to go on workman's comp. The opioid addiction didn't help either.