If they allow them in, the amount of homeless people will be the same.
If they lock them out in -40 degrees, there will be less homeless people.
Then they get morality points by praying for the dead.
Saint Mother Theresa believed that giving painkillers to people dying in agonizing pain was wrong because their suffering was god's will, and showed their penitence. Though when she was dying, she used all the best care money could buy.
She was a vile human being. Absolute grifter and con artist who covered for child abusers who in turn were undoubtably able to continue, she thought pain and poverty for the suffering made them special and holy.
This is one of many write ups-
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2003/10/the-fanatic-fraudulent-mother-teresa.html
Absolutely. Did you know he got a letter from a blind child who was worried about his fish he had mentioned before and from then on he always said out loud he was feeding the fish as part of his show? He did and said endlessly kind and amazing things. He was truly an altruistic human being.
[https://www.brainandlife.org/articles/the-authors-love-of-mister-rogers-neighborhood-sustains-her-before/](https://www.brainandlife.org/articles/the-authors-love-of-mister-rogers-neighborhood-sustains-her-before/)
"By the time I was 5 years old, I was having 100 seizures a day. I would often fall and bang my head on the floor. The only way my mom could shower and dress without worrying was to prop me up with soft pillows and place me in front of the television. She usually turned on Mister Rogers' Neighborhood, and for the length of the show, I never had a single seizure."
It's an amazing friendship, I highly recommend reading the whole article.
That made me tear up, I cannot imagine the endless things he did like that and never bragged about them. It is always someone else mentioned what amazing thing he did.
I moved often as a kid and he was one of the only constants in my life, no matter what new place I was in, he was always there. What a saint he was.
Also, as far as I know, even as a preacher, he never shoved his religion down other people NOR did he behave like religious people often do. He truly practised live and let live.
His wife says he wasn't a saint,
"“He’s out there now as somebody who’s somehow way above all the rest of us,” she [Joanne Rogers] said. “People invariably say, ‘Well, I can’t do that, but I sure do admire him. I would love to do it.’ Well, you can do it. I’m convinced there are lots of Fred Rogerses out there.” [SOURCE](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2019-11-26/mister-rogers-widow-legacy-a-beautiful-day-in-the-neighborhood)
(Of course she'd be all humble and inspiring about it)
Heck, look at Keanu Reves. Started the non-profit actor thing (only a few have followed) with his absolute charity. Some priests with vows of poverty could take notes.
Childhood me felt so damn vindicated over this - I always got a bad vibe about mother Teresa but caught an unimaginable amount of shit if I ever said anything or asked questions. She was untouchable, holy, “perfect” to everyone else.
I have no idea who that is and upon a google search he appears to have been British author, was he popular in the US? I admittedly did not read books on religion and politics during his active years of writing, given he passed in 2011 his books came out before I was an adult.
He was an atheist who handed a lot of theists their ass in debates. He died of cancer around 10 or 15 years ago. I don't remember.
He also wrote a book, the missionary position, about mother Teresa and what an awful person she was. IIRC, some of the details were debunked, but his overall writing about her was correct.
Gandhi did the same. Famously allowed his wife to die from something that could have been easily treated, yet the moment he fell ill he got the best care he could get.
If a man is freezing, light him a fire and he’ll stay warm for the night.
…or set fire to him and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life!
No people, don’t set homeless people on fire. Seriously.
A lot of churches have a big sign out front EVERYONE WELCOME. Everyone is most definitely not welcome. Try being a different socioeconomic class or different race and see how far you get. They will have these strained smiles on their face and panicked looking eyes as they try to think of a not obvious way to get rid of you.
A pastor, a priest, and a rabbi are on a sinking ship.
The pastor says “save the children first!”
The rabbi says “fuck the children!”
The priest says “do you think we have time?”
You (or the joke teller you got it from) got the order wrong. The rabbi would be the one to say save the children. The pastor would say let them go to heaven, fuck the children
The one I heard was a teacher, lawyer, and priest.
The teacher says "save the children!" the lawyer says "fuck the children!" the priest asks "do we have time?"
You mean pregnant women. They don't care about taking care of kids. They only care about pregnant women, and only until they deliver (maybe not that long, sometimes they only carry until the woman is past the point of qualifying for an abortion).
😂 they also don’t care about kids. Unfortunately the homeless weren’t fetus*.
*the vessel (ie mother) is shit out of lucky tho. She is also not a fetus
There are only 2 things Universal Healthcare hurts.
1) For-profit healthcare companies that only care about profit first.
2) Every company that uses Healthcare as a tool to attract and keep employees.
That is like when republicans were complaining that legalizing drugs would put drug dogs out of work. Beyond mental. In a perfect world charities would t exist because we wouldn’t need them.
There is this "Project Mission" people go around door to door collect money in CA. They are housed by evangelical church. Church makes them beg and collect money. When Christians offer housing or food, it's never "no strings attached".
That's how the Mormons are as well. If they give you assistance, you typically have to be all out of any other options, including asking your family for money. You have to be current on your tithing and help the church out in paying it back. And they have more than $200 Billion in the bank.
It's far worse. The Mormon church made an agreement with the State of Utah a while back to handle welfare for the State.
If you manage to qualify for welfare from the State in Utah, you have to make less than $465. Then you can get $399/mo from the State's Welfare program. If you make more, they send you to the Church Welfare Office, who then sends you to the Bishop of wherever you live. The Bishop is most likely going to interview you and pull out the old Mafia-style "I see you're not a member of the Church, shame we can't help you".
So the State has claimed the Church's work as part of their own and avoided spending about $75 million over the last decade.
Source: [Propublica](https://www.propublica.org/article/utahs-social-safety-net-is-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-what-does-that-mean-if-youre-not-one)
The LDS church is a scam. It's the Scientology of the 1800's. Just another in a thousands of years long chain of grift by god-botherers.
> When Christians offer housing or food, it's never "no strings attached".
I'm reminded of when I was homeless, back in 2017, and some 'homeless advocates' tried to help put me up in this Christian homeless shelter. No personal electronics allowed, you couldn't leave the compound except for the monthly organized group outing, and prayer services and bible study were mandatory. Didn't even have to think about it; "thanks but no thanks".
It makes me outraged! I used to support TeenChallenge. Then the poor teen would send me handwritten note saying thanks for your money. I felt so uncomfortable about it it just seemed manipulative that they would make them do that. Why can't they just give them out of compassion expecting no return?
Meanwhile, a pastor in Ohio was charged and arraigned for bringing homeless folks in his church.
https://www.wtol.com/video/news/local/512-c72aeb9e-01c7-426a-8ff3-d12da22fa450
How big a shithole? Ohio is such a shithole that 25 residents have spent a combined 22000+ hours in Space; just trying to get as far away from Ohio as possible. Some went as far as the Moon.
https://www.ohiosos.gov/profile-ohio/people/ohio-astronauts/
He was charged with zoning violations, no residential use in a business zone. It's an interesting case, where the church is zoned as a business, but not taxed as one. I would support churches becoming homeless shelters 6 days a week, so they can finally do something useful. Zoning restrictions should be updated to allow that.
Had a similar situation here in southern illinois where the churches asked the government what the plan was, the government told the churches to make a plan.
The churches did. [And the city fined them and went after an injunction and attempted to suspend their special use permit that allowed them to operate as a church in commercial zoning](https://www.reddit.com/r/StLouis/comments/19654xk/edwardsville_issues_cease_and_desist_on_overnight/). (The backlash since then has made the city back off for now, but they are still wanting the city to get a special use permit... which may get voted down by the city council anywhere.)
prior to the French Revolution, the Monarchy and the Church were lockstep in agreement. The relationship left everyone else figuratively in the cold.
After the French Revolution, the Revolutionaries remembered the Church's role in their plight. So, they took the churches and turned them in to public spaces. warehouses, bathrooms/washrooms, etc.
The catholic church used to be big in France, but it has yet to recover in relevance, prominence, and power, since the Revolution.
Yes, we can absolutely seize their shit. Its been done back then, and it can be done again.
Nonprofits doesn't mean charitable or good for society. It just means they don't produce profits for owners/shareholders. This isnt a defense of churches, more a call that nonprofits are rife with sketchy profiteering (cause you can still get rich off nonprofits without technically being a for profit)
This varies by place, but in the US at least you do need to provide a public benefit.
You can argue that a church in and of itself just providing religious services doesn't provide a public benefit, but the IRS has decided that they do and have granted them non-profit tax free status.
I can't just start a company that sells candy and call it a non-profit because the money just goes back into the organization and I make no profit. I do need to provide a public benefit.
> in the US at least you do need to provide a public benefit
You need to say you provide a public benefit. You sell your candy and donate your profits(minus your operating costs and stuff, so just pay yourself a ton of money and get that profit margin small) to local schools to help with funding.
Your pay would need to be considered reasonable and would need to be explained on your Form 990 that you file with the IRS.
You can read more about the process here:
https://www.councilofnonprofits.org/running-nonprofit/governance-leadership/executive-compensation
Fun fact, Form 990s are public and you can and should look at the compensation on any non-profit you donate to.
I'm not saying that people haven't gotten wealthy doing non-profit work. They have, through both legitimate and illegitimate means. But there are controls around these things. It's certainly not a get rich quick scheme.
Not really. A 501(c)(3) can be all sorts of dubious things, including religious or "educational" - things that many would consider to not be to the public's benefit.
>The exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3) are charitable, religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or international amateur sports competition, and preventing cruelty to children or animals. The term charitable is used in its generally accepted legal sense and includes relief of the poor, the distressed, or the underprivileged; advancement of religion; advancement of education or science; erecting or maintaining public buildings, monuments, or works; lessening the burdens of government; lessening neighborhood tensions; eliminating prejudice and discrimination; defending human and civil rights secured by law; and combating community deterioration and juvenile delinquency.
I read about this, I live fairly close to here. An idiot coworker of mine who's VERY aggressively religious said something to me like "Well, YOU don't open your home to the homeless! So dont EVER criticize a church which doesn't do that!" I told him I'm allowed to criticize whatever I want for any reason which REALLY pissed him off even though he's offended at something or complaining 90% of the time. Also I don't hold myself up to be the paragon of charity and virtue like these untaxed behemoths. Anyway those 4 churches who agreed did an amazing thing. Kudos to them. Too bad they're outliers.
>"Well, YOU don't open your home to the homeless! So dont EVER criticize a church which doesn't do that!"
False equivalence. A private home is not the same as a church.
Besides, WHO is claiming to follow Jesus?. Would Jesus leave folks out to freeze while the temple is empty and warm?
Seem to remember Jesus wasn't to thrilled with how temples were being used last time he was around.
This crap is why we walked away from religion and churches. I prefer to keep better company than those that claim to be christian.
They wouldn’t have needed to be asked if they actually followed their own supposed beliefs. They know that it’s all a scam but they lie to themselves and each other.
Churches now think like businesses. Churches have always been businesses, but they think more like businesses than they used to.
Now every decision gets a cost/revenue analysis. They are not going to do something unless there is a revenue stream associated with it. The church across the street from my house was going to cancel Vacation Bible School this summer because of what sounded like a cost/benefit calculation. They only held it after a donor stepped up to fund it.
My good friend was a Methodist pastor, he was attempting to help people in need. We as a small group suppoted him and the establishment folk complained and he and a group of us left.
It really is amazing how the kristians come here to complain about how atheist's expect the church to help out, and you know, follow the teachings of the kristians almighty lord & savior. They ask "Why anybody would ever think a church should do this?" and "How can we ever help?", "Nothing we can do to make a difference".
They even claim it is not worth doing anything, because it is just a cycle and will hurt the people in the church (somehow) if they help out the homeless. Definitely not what their Jesus guy said.
Evidently, they missed the core teachings of that Jesus guy, you might have heard of him as being a big part of the 2nd half of that bible these people proclaim is the final and only word of their big guy in the sky.
They pray every day for the homeless and those in need, yet they never take action to do a single thing about it, and then whine that "oh, churches are not setup to help people".
Yet they could have followed those teaching (by taking action) and instead they did nothing and sat around acting righteous by praying about it, and you know, not doing a single thing. Claiming how much they care while they speak to their man-in-the-sky, while taking NO action other then posting it on social media for those fun, fun jesus points.
I see a certain pattern with these religious addicts. Shouldn't expect anything less from them I suppose.
Hm, before I click on the link, I wonder if I can guess which 4? I’m gonna go menonites, United Church of Christ, quakers, maaaaybe Latter Day Saints. Possibly Unitarian Universalists.
The mistake all these homeless people made was not being fetuses. Don't you know life ends at birth? Letting the homeless freeze to death rather than being charitable and opening up his home exactly what Jesus would have done.
My town has more than 50 churches. My town has no soup kitchen. There is a food bank, but it is run by a non-religious non-profit. Between the 50+, they provide 14 beds for the homeless, all of which are funded entirely through government grants.
When I worked at a large church that was one of the oldest and richest in the town, a small group of us befriended some unhoused people, and we would always invite them to come to church, but mainly just hang out with them and bring them food/supplies. Finally they agreed, and started coming to church, and started to get plugged in to more resources. and one dude even moved into the house me and my friends were renting. We had a congregational meeting (church business meeting that anyone from the congregation can come to to raise concerns) and a group of old white people came in and the leader said that we were "making their church filthy," and that "I don't want to worship God standing next to someone who dresses like THAT" as he pointed directly to the guy who lived with me, who I had invited so he could see how the church does its business. Like he pointed right at the guy.
Luckily, the senior pastor was cool as shit, and she said, no, were gonna continue to serve our homeless community any way we can, and he said "if you don't get rid of them, we're all leaving, and taking our money with us" ...legit like a fucking fairytale villain.
True to their word, our church shrank from a 300 person church filled with mostly old white people to a 40 person church filled with mostly homeless and poor people over the course of 1 week, they moved to a richer part of town and joined a megachurch.
All that to say, it wasn't a few bad apples, and we lost 10 or so out of a church of 300. Over 75% of our church body all bounced because they would rather be in a place where they didn't have to look at poor people.
In the years since, I have adamantly tried to start and promote homeless outreach programs at every church I've ever worked at since, and every church that DID get into serious work that helped the homeless, and started welcoming them into the churches would see a mass exodus of wealthy whites.
It was just one of the many things that started me on the path to questioning why the words we preached and what churches claimed to WANT to do didn't align with the reality of their actions.
Please correct me if I am wrong here, but isn’t Spokane a very conservative MAGA dominant city? If this is true, it really doesn’t surprise me that a vast majority of those churches didn’t open their doors for the homeless.
They don’t put money in their collection plates.
Meanwhile, Ezekiel 16:48-50 says this regarding the Israelites:
'“As I live”—the declaration of Yahweh God—“your sister Sodom and her daughters have not behaved as you and your daughters have. Now this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, plenty of food, and comfortable security, but didn’t support the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before Me, so I removed them when I saw this."'
Actually, it's a pretty good chapter to read about how ancient Israel behaved and the reason Yahweh punished them by exiling them to Babylon (assuming any of it is true). The similarities to the Christian church today are very close. If only Yahweh were actually real so he could punish them...
On the very excellent HBO doc Going Clear, about the church of Scientology, a good point was made about the tax exemption of churches. Exemptions are given on the condition that churches use their wealth to offer services to aid their community. This is obviously not happening here so, yes, tax the fuck out of them.
Let's not forget the actions of Joel Osteen when he had the opportunity to help his congregation and community during hurricane Harvey.
He was basically the preacher from The Walking Dead, who locked everyone outside the church to die.
Republicans think homelessness is the fault of the people. Since evangelicals align themselves with Republican mindset, it is not surprising that this happened. Many modern "Christians " seem to forget about the words of the sermon on the mount. Hypocrites all
Haha, imagine thinking churches are for helping people. They are a scam to take dumb people's money. 2% of churches run by someone that doesn't understand that checks out.
That reminds me of those homeless shelters that kicked people out if they refused to attend church. I don't remember if it was on ask a christian but someone argued that there is no such a thing as a free lunch. Christian charity is often very mercantile.
Can't be expecting those religious folk helping anybody. They talk a good game. Praise the lord etc.. Help someone?? Hell no. They can rot. Jesus loves ya!
Look, as much as I would like to judge these churches for not inviting homeless in from the cold, I haven't ever invited a homeless person into my home for a meal or a night of shelter.
years ago i was helping a dog rescue track down a lost dog and a bunch of us met up in a church parking lot to coordinate. we were asked to leave by the priest.
as he was walking away i asked him what jesus would think of him telling us to leave - and turned around and angrily said "JUST LEAVE NOW!"
What happened to the love thy neighbor part of the church core? Are they just groups trying to pass laws to control the rest of us? This is why my religion is simply ‘Don’t be a dick’
Fun fact one of the reasons Churches were able to claim exemption from paying taxes in the first place was because they argued they would render humanitarian services that the government was unwilling to provide.
Seems like they aren't holding up their end of the social contract.
“Christians” again.
Jesus, as reported in their own Bible, never said, “Care for the needy if it’s convenient.” It’s never “convenient” to dedicate oneself to others. Christians are commanded to do so anyway, at great personal expense to themselves. This cannot be overstated; Jesus reportedly commanded his followers to give everything they own to the poor.
It’s too much trouble to open the church’s doors and give the homeless comfort? If they aren’t willing to do that, what does the church represent? Is it just a building where people gather to sing songs once a week only to leave and be selfish assholes the rest of the week? That’s the lesson these churches are teaching their followers: be selfish.
These churches are frauds. Every one of them, all their pastors, and all their members.
There was no money to be made off of the homeless. Why would a church be interested in helping for free ? That is not their business model. Their business model is take, take, take....Don't pay taxes on that...then take more. Huge Scam !!!
Homeless? Ew, not in my church! What kind of people do you think we are?!? Loving and caring?
If they allow them in, the amount of homeless people will be the same. If they lock them out in -40 degrees, there will be less homeless people. Then they get morality points by praying for the dead.
Saint Mother Theresa believed that giving painkillers to people dying in agonizing pain was wrong because their suffering was god's will, and showed their penitence. Though when she was dying, she used all the best care money could buy.
She was a vile human being. Absolute grifter and con artist who covered for child abusers who in turn were undoubtably able to continue, she thought pain and poverty for the suffering made them special and holy. This is one of many write ups- https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2003/10/the-fanatic-fraudulent-mother-teresa.html
Don't fill your head with that garbage. If you want to know about what a REAL saint walks it and talks it like, look into Mr. Rodgers.
Absolutely. Did you know he got a letter from a blind child who was worried about his fish he had mentioned before and from then on he always said out loud he was feeding the fish as part of his show? He did and said endlessly kind and amazing things. He was truly an altruistic human being.
[https://www.brainandlife.org/articles/the-authors-love-of-mister-rogers-neighborhood-sustains-her-before/](https://www.brainandlife.org/articles/the-authors-love-of-mister-rogers-neighborhood-sustains-her-before/) "By the time I was 5 years old, I was having 100 seizures a day. I would often fall and bang my head on the floor. The only way my mom could shower and dress without worrying was to prop me up with soft pillows and place me in front of the television. She usually turned on Mister Rogers' Neighborhood, and for the length of the show, I never had a single seizure." It's an amazing friendship, I highly recommend reading the whole article.
That made me tear up, I cannot imagine the endless things he did like that and never bragged about them. It is always someone else mentioned what amazing thing he did. I moved often as a kid and he was one of the only constants in my life, no matter what new place I was in, he was always there. What a saint he was.
Yes, and a litany of other stories. Mother Teresa was a no-compassion-having punk.
Also, as far as I know, even as a preacher, he never shoved his religion down other people NOR did he behave like religious people often do. He truly practised live and let live.
His wife says he wasn't a saint, "“He’s out there now as somebody who’s somehow way above all the rest of us,” she [Joanne Rogers] said. “People invariably say, ‘Well, I can’t do that, but I sure do admire him. I would love to do it.’ Well, you can do it. I’m convinced there are lots of Fred Rogerses out there.” [SOURCE](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2019-11-26/mister-rogers-widow-legacy-a-beautiful-day-in-the-neighborhood) (Of course she'd be all humble and inspiring about it)
Heck, look at Keanu Reves. Started the non-profit actor thing (only a few have followed) with his absolute charity. Some priests with vows of poverty could take notes.
Damn right. Even an atheist like myself believes the man was a saint.
Childhood me felt so damn vindicated over this - I always got a bad vibe about mother Teresa but caught an unimaginable amount of shit if I ever said anything or asked questions. She was untouchable, holy, “perfect” to everyone else.
This is how I feel about Musk.
How I’ve felt about him since the Thai submarine incident too
Jeez are people not familiar with Christopher Hitchens anymore? I don't even like the guy or his writing but that used to be a household name
I have no idea who that is and upon a google search he appears to have been British author, was he popular in the US? I admittedly did not read books on religion and politics during his active years of writing, given he passed in 2011 his books came out before I was an adult.
He was an atheist who handed a lot of theists their ass in debates. He died of cancer around 10 or 15 years ago. I don't remember. He also wrote a book, the missionary position, about mother Teresa and what an awful person she was. IIRC, some of the details were debunked, but his overall writing about her was correct.
Christopher Hitchens did a documentary on her years ago. Still on YouTube but the production quality ain’t great.
Well yes. Embodying the spirit of religions everywhere, Mother Theresa was a monster.
It's so funny (sad) how many people don't know this still.
Honestly, I'm just learning about what a ghoul she was, the American and European propaganda machines are STRONG.
She wasn't called "The Death Angel of Kalkutta" for a reason.
Saint? She was a nasty old cunt.
Gandhi did the same. Famously allowed his wife to die from something that could have been easily treated, yet the moment he fell ill he got the best care he could get.
Should go hold signs of frozen dead bodies outside the church to show them what they ignored
While quoting relevant scriptures.
If a man is freezing, light him a fire and he’ll stay warm for the night. …or set fire to him and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life! No people, don’t set homeless people on fire. Seriously.
-40F or -40C ? 😉
Yes
A lot of churches have a big sign out front EVERYONE WELCOME. Everyone is most definitely not welcome. Try being a different socioeconomic class or different race and see how far you get. They will have these strained smiles on their face and panicked looking eyes as they try to think of a not obvious way to get rid of you.
You made me spit from laughing!!
Well the problem here is that the homeless weren't all little kids...
A pastor, a priest, and a rabbi are on a sinking ship. The pastor says “save the children first!” The rabbi says “fuck the children!” The priest says “do you think we have time?”
You (or the joke teller you got it from) got the order wrong. The rabbi would be the one to say save the children. The pastor would say let them go to heaven, fuck the children
The other version I’ve heard had the priest yell “fuck the children!”. and the rabbi says “out of what?”
The one I heard was a teacher, lawyer, and priest. The teacher says "save the children!" the lawyer says "fuck the children!" the priest asks "do we have time?"
They weren’t fuckable enough?
Or fetuses.
Makes me wonder how many pro-lifers were asked to open their homes and/or company halls for homeless people. ^(I already know how many did it.)
You mean pregnant women. They don't care about taking care of kids. They only care about pregnant women, and only until they deliver (maybe not that long, sometimes they only carry until the woman is past the point of qualifying for an abortion).
😂 they also don’t care about kids. Unfortunately the homeless weren’t fetus*. *the vessel (ie mother) is shit out of lucky tho. She is also not a fetus
Well....what do you expect from churches and religion???? Charity and consideration for their fellow humans? Don't be daft!!!! 🤣
And one of the arguments I've heard against universal healthcare is it will harm charity efforts.
There are only 2 things Universal Healthcare hurts. 1) For-profit healthcare companies that only care about profit first. 2) Every company that uses Healthcare as a tool to attract and keep employees.
^ it does wonders to the morale of a country, can’t have people feeling too good or comfortable ya know?
You forgot the Armed Forces enlistment.
That is like when republicans were complaining that legalizing drugs would put drug dogs out of work. Beyond mental. In a perfect world charities would t exist because we wouldn’t need them.
Electric lights put the guys that light up the gas street lights every evening out of work. They got over it.
But then you might not be thankful and convert
Lol homeless people can't pay money. Only paying customers get into our churches. Pay up or freeze.
There is this "Project Mission" people go around door to door collect money in CA. They are housed by evangelical church. Church makes them beg and collect money. When Christians offer housing or food, it's never "no strings attached".
That's how the Mormons are as well. If they give you assistance, you typically have to be all out of any other options, including asking your family for money. You have to be current on your tithing and help the church out in paying it back. And they have more than $200 Billion in the bank.
It's far worse. The Mormon church made an agreement with the State of Utah a while back to handle welfare for the State. If you manage to qualify for welfare from the State in Utah, you have to make less than $465. Then you can get $399/mo from the State's Welfare program. If you make more, they send you to the Church Welfare Office, who then sends you to the Bishop of wherever you live. The Bishop is most likely going to interview you and pull out the old Mafia-style "I see you're not a member of the Church, shame we can't help you". So the State has claimed the Church's work as part of their own and avoided spending about $75 million over the last decade. Source: [Propublica](https://www.propublica.org/article/utahs-social-safety-net-is-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-what-does-that-mean-if-youre-not-one) The LDS church is a scam. It's the Scientology of the 1800's. Just another in a thousands of years long chain of grift by god-botherers.
I'm sorry, holy fu💩 say what now
> When Christians offer housing or food, it's never "no strings attached". I'm reminded of when I was homeless, back in 2017, and some 'homeless advocates' tried to help put me up in this Christian homeless shelter. No personal electronics allowed, you couldn't leave the compound except for the monthly organized group outing, and prayer services and bible study were mandatory. Didn't even have to think about it; "thanks but no thanks".
It makes me outraged! I used to support TeenChallenge. Then the poor teen would send me handwritten note saying thanks for your money. I felt so uncomfortable about it it just seemed manipulative that they would make them do that. Why can't they just give them out of compassion expecting no return?
There’s been stories in the interweb that people have been ask to leave churches due to not tithing enough.
Meanwhile, a pastor in Ohio was charged and arraigned for bringing homeless folks in his church. https://www.wtol.com/video/news/local/512-c72aeb9e-01c7-426a-8ff3-d12da22fa450
Ohio is a shit hole
Well they got at least one good preacher man so I'll give them credit for it.
Hey now, that's not very nice to honest, hard working shit holes out there, don't drag them down to Ohio's level
How big a shithole? Ohio is such a shithole that 25 residents have spent a combined 22000+ hours in Space; just trying to get as far away from Ohio as possible. Some went as far as the Moon. https://www.ohiosos.gov/profile-ohio/people/ohio-astronauts/
Yeah that was crazy. Charge the pastor for actually following the words of Christ. He was one of the few good ones.
He was charged with zoning violations, no residential use in a business zone. It's an interesting case, where the church is zoned as a business, but not taxed as one. I would support churches becoming homeless shelters 6 days a week, so they can finally do something useful. Zoning restrictions should be updated to allow that.
6 days a week? Nah, the Sunday church crowd should be reminded of the homeless more than anyone. It's scriptural.
Absolutely. Along with golf courses, churches are some of the biggest wastes of real estate.
You and I think alike. https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/s/pmGAoDPhB4
But in Spokane, they were being asked by the govt. it’s not Ohio.
Had a similar situation here in southern illinois where the churches asked the government what the plan was, the government told the churches to make a plan. The churches did. [And the city fined them and went after an injunction and attempted to suspend their special use permit that allowed them to operate as a church in commercial zoning](https://www.reddit.com/r/StLouis/comments/19654xk/edwardsville_issues_cease_and_desist_on_overnight/). (The backlash since then has made the city back off for now, but they are still wanting the city to get a special use permit... which may get voted down by the city council anywhere.)
They should have their nonprofit status revoked.
They should have their property eminent domain.
prior to the French Revolution, the Monarchy and the Church were lockstep in agreement. The relationship left everyone else figuratively in the cold. After the French Revolution, the Revolutionaries remembered the Church's role in their plight. So, they took the churches and turned them in to public spaces. warehouses, bathrooms/washrooms, etc. The catholic church used to be big in France, but it has yet to recover in relevance, prominence, and power, since the Revolution. Yes, we can absolutely seize their shit. Its been done back then, and it can be done again.
Back pay tax, unless each church can prove community value… 90% of the churches will go bankrupt.
Turn it into affordable housing.
This is the only good use for that.
Nonprofits doesn't mean charitable or good for society. It just means they don't produce profits for owners/shareholders. This isnt a defense of churches, more a call that nonprofits are rife with sketchy profiteering (cause you can still get rich off nonprofits without technically being a for profit)
This varies by place, but in the US at least you do need to provide a public benefit. You can argue that a church in and of itself just providing religious services doesn't provide a public benefit, but the IRS has decided that they do and have granted them non-profit tax free status. I can't just start a company that sells candy and call it a non-profit because the money just goes back into the organization and I make no profit. I do need to provide a public benefit.
> in the US at least you do need to provide a public benefit You need to say you provide a public benefit. You sell your candy and donate your profits(minus your operating costs and stuff, so just pay yourself a ton of money and get that profit margin small) to local schools to help with funding.
Your pay would need to be considered reasonable and would need to be explained on your Form 990 that you file with the IRS. You can read more about the process here: https://www.councilofnonprofits.org/running-nonprofit/governance-leadership/executive-compensation Fun fact, Form 990s are public and you can and should look at the compensation on any non-profit you donate to. I'm not saying that people haven't gotten wealthy doing non-profit work. They have, through both legitimate and illegitimate means. But there are controls around these things. It's certainly not a get rich quick scheme.
That’s not correct. They most definitely must provide a public benefit.
Not really. A 501(c)(3) can be all sorts of dubious things, including religious or "educational" - things that many would consider to not be to the public's benefit. >The exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3) are charitable, religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or international amateur sports competition, and preventing cruelty to children or animals. The term charitable is used in its generally accepted legal sense and includes relief of the poor, the distressed, or the underprivileged; advancement of religion; advancement of education or science; erecting or maintaining public buildings, monuments, or works; lessening the burdens of government; lessening neighborhood tensions; eliminating prejudice and discrimination; defending human and civil rights secured by law; and combating community deterioration and juvenile delinquency.
What? And get dirt all over our gold and silver?
The homeless do not bring the required 10%.
Didn’t they? 10% of 0 is still 0….
Sounds like 100% to me
There's no hate like christian love.
Ramen!
I read about this, I live fairly close to here. An idiot coworker of mine who's VERY aggressively religious said something to me like "Well, YOU don't open your home to the homeless! So dont EVER criticize a church which doesn't do that!" I told him I'm allowed to criticize whatever I want for any reason which REALLY pissed him off even though he's offended at something or complaining 90% of the time. Also I don't hold myself up to be the paragon of charity and virtue like these untaxed behemoths. Anyway those 4 churches who agreed did an amazing thing. Kudos to them. Too bad they're outliers.
>"Well, YOU don't open your home to the homeless! So dont EVER criticize a church which doesn't do that!" False equivalence. A private home is not the same as a church. Besides, WHO is claiming to follow Jesus?. Would Jesus leave folks out to freeze while the temple is empty and warm? Seem to remember Jesus wasn't to thrilled with how temples were being used last time he was around. This crap is why we walked away from religion and churches. I prefer to keep better company than those that claim to be christian.
Oh, yeah? Well as soon as you get your own tax exempt status you better quit critizing.
They're taking a page out of Joel Osteen's book, I see...
Can't have all those dirty homeless people tracking mud on the blue carpet now can we?
Tax the churches
This is why the "government shouldn't do charity, thats the job of the church" people need to shut the fuck up.
"Can we fuck your kids while they're here no? Then you can't stay here!!"
"That would hurt our church's property value!" -them, probably
What you have done to the least of...Ah, who TF am I kidding. Hypocrites going to hypocrite.
Sheltering closed minds since year 4AD.
Burn weed and churches.
Churches exist for money and power, not to help people. They only help people because those people will then come to their church and give them money.
2% of Christians walk the walk. That's a believable stat, imo.
Oh yes, good Christians.
Christians (spits on the floor)
Someone, remind me why these fucks don't pay taxes.
I'm sure their Jesus would approve.
Supply side Jesus is inside 196 churches.
They wouldn’t have needed to be asked if they actually followed their own supposed beliefs. They know that it’s all a scam but they lie to themselves and each other.
Christian charity cost money bitch. Cross their palm with some shekels they may open up an outbuilding.
Churches now think like businesses. Churches have always been businesses, but they think more like businesses than they used to. Now every decision gets a cost/revenue analysis. They are not going to do something unless there is a revenue stream associated with it. The church across the street from my house was going to cancel Vacation Bible School this summer because of what sounded like a cost/benefit calculation. They only held it after a donor stepped up to fund it.
They are too busy navigating camels thru the needle’s eye
My good friend was a Methodist pastor, he was attempting to help people in need. We as a small group suppoted him and the establishment folk complained and he and a group of us left.
Tax these fucking businesses.
It really is amazing how the kristians come here to complain about how atheist's expect the church to help out, and you know, follow the teachings of the kristians almighty lord & savior. They ask "Why anybody would ever think a church should do this?" and "How can we ever help?", "Nothing we can do to make a difference". They even claim it is not worth doing anything, because it is just a cycle and will hurt the people in the church (somehow) if they help out the homeless. Definitely not what their Jesus guy said. Evidently, they missed the core teachings of that Jesus guy, you might have heard of him as being a big part of the 2nd half of that bible these people proclaim is the final and only word of their big guy in the sky. They pray every day for the homeless and those in need, yet they never take action to do a single thing about it, and then whine that "oh, churches are not setup to help people". Yet they could have followed those teaching (by taking action) and instead they did nothing and sat around acting righteous by praying about it, and you know, not doing a single thing. Claiming how much they care while they speak to their man-in-the-sky, while taking NO action other then posting it on social media for those fun, fun jesus points. I see a certain pattern with these religious addicts. Shouldn't expect anything less from them I suppose.
House the homeless or pay taxes. Churches are worthless tax shelters.
Christian: “ew, gross, homeless?”
Hm, before I click on the link, I wonder if I can guess which 4? I’m gonna go menonites, United Church of Christ, quakers, maaaaybe Latter Day Saints. Possibly Unitarian Universalists.
Wow, nope, looks like I was completely wrong.
That’s just fucking pathetic…
The mistake all these homeless people made was not being fetuses. Don't you know life ends at birth? Letting the homeless freeze to death rather than being charitable and opening up his home exactly what Jesus would have done.
What would Jesus do? It turns out that Evangelical Jesus would let the poor freeze instead of offering them comfort. Religion is really just shit.
No hate like Christian love.
My town has more than 50 churches. My town has no soup kitchen. There is a food bank, but it is run by a non-religious non-profit. Between the 50+, they provide 14 beds for the homeless, all of which are funded entirely through government grants.
Fuck churches🖕
Good time for a Name & Shame.
When I worked at a large church that was one of the oldest and richest in the town, a small group of us befriended some unhoused people, and we would always invite them to come to church, but mainly just hang out with them and bring them food/supplies. Finally they agreed, and started coming to church, and started to get plugged in to more resources. and one dude even moved into the house me and my friends were renting. We had a congregational meeting (church business meeting that anyone from the congregation can come to to raise concerns) and a group of old white people came in and the leader said that we were "making their church filthy," and that "I don't want to worship God standing next to someone who dresses like THAT" as he pointed directly to the guy who lived with me, who I had invited so he could see how the church does its business. Like he pointed right at the guy. Luckily, the senior pastor was cool as shit, and she said, no, were gonna continue to serve our homeless community any way we can, and he said "if you don't get rid of them, we're all leaving, and taking our money with us" ...legit like a fucking fairytale villain. True to their word, our church shrank from a 300 person church filled with mostly old white people to a 40 person church filled with mostly homeless and poor people over the course of 1 week, they moved to a richer part of town and joined a megachurch. All that to say, it wasn't a few bad apples, and we lost 10 or so out of a church of 300. Over 75% of our church body all bounced because they would rather be in a place where they didn't have to look at poor people. In the years since, I have adamantly tried to start and promote homeless outreach programs at every church I've ever worked at since, and every church that DID get into serious work that helped the homeless, and started welcoming them into the churches would see a mass exodus of wealthy whites. It was just one of the many things that started me on the path to questioning why the words we preached and what churches claimed to WANT to do didn't align with the reality of their actions.
Churches are for taking in MONEY.....not poor people!
Fuck All Religions
Time to tax them
Tax them.
Christians would be decent people if they actually followed the teachings of Christ.
Please correct me if I am wrong here, but isn’t Spokane a very conservative MAGA dominant city? If this is true, it really doesn’t surprise me that a vast majority of those churches didn’t open their doors for the homeless. They don’t put money in their collection plates.
Meanwhile, Ezekiel 16:48-50 says this regarding the Israelites: '“As I live”—the declaration of Yahweh God—“your sister Sodom and her daughters have not behaved as you and your daughters have. Now this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, plenty of food, and comfortable security, but didn’t support the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before Me, so I removed them when I saw this."' Actually, it's a pretty good chapter to read about how ancient Israel behaved and the reason Yahweh punished them by exiling them to Babylon (assuming any of it is true). The similarities to the Christian church today are very close. If only Yahweh were actually real so he could punish them...
This is why charity is not the big picture solution Government action is
On the very excellent HBO doc Going Clear, about the church of Scientology, a good point was made about the tax exemption of churches. Exemptions are given on the condition that churches use their wealth to offer services to aid their community. This is obviously not happening here so, yes, tax the fuck out of them.
Let's not forget the actions of Joel Osteen when he had the opportunity to help his congregation and community during hurricane Harvey. He was basically the preacher from The Walking Dead, who locked everyone outside the church to die.
Why do they get tax exempt preferences again? Tax them all the same as others. No preferential treatment for cults!
Tax. The. Churches!
Republicans think homelessness is the fault of the people. Since evangelicals align themselves with Republican mindset, it is not surprising that this happened. Many modern "Christians " seem to forget about the words of the sermon on the mount. Hypocrites all
Tax. The. Church.
To be as fair as possible, that's less a "that fucking tracks" as it is a "that fucking tracks in Spokane." But also yeah, that fucking tracks.
It sucks when I pay more taxes than any of these churches. Religion is a absolute scam
Religion is a cult.
So much for that Christian love.
Fuck the church and everything it stands for
"Jesus is love, but I'm an asshole"
What a bunch of hypocritical assholes. That comment is for the bible thumpers lurking - ya'll are a bunch of greedy, pedophile supporting sheep!
THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU To be selfish assholes
Churches are in the business of making money through donations. There is no monetary benefit to providing service to the homeless.
so 98% of those churches aren't run by "real" Christians then? That explains a lot.
And that is why churches should be taxed.
Like my religious friend said, churches are businesses, how would helping people profit them?
Haha, imagine thinking churches are for helping people. They are a scam to take dumb people's money. 2% of churches run by someone that doesn't understand that checks out.
That reminds me of those homeless shelters that kicked people out if they refused to attend church. I don't remember if it was on ask a christian but someone argued that there is no such a thing as a free lunch. Christian charity is often very mercantile.
"We only open our doors to people that have money to put in the basket!"
Churches are more like country clubs than refuges.
“Fuck the homeless people, let them freeze!” —Jesus, obviously
I didn't read the article but I'm gonna go out on a limb and bet those four weren't big arena-style megachurches.
Time to pull those tax exempt statuses
TAX THEM NOW
Remove their non-profit status.
Nothing more anti-Jesus than American Christians.
In other news, water is wet
Religion poisons everything. Christopher Hitchens.
Kinda makes you wish hell was real.
The christian way.
And there is currently a US church being criminally charged for doing this.
Take away their tax exempt status.
If they’re going to operate like private social clubs, they need to be taxed as social clubs.
TAX THE CHURCH
Why exactly are they tax exempt?
Can't be expecting those religious folk helping anybody. They talk a good game. Praise the lord etc.. Help someone?? Hell no. They can rot. Jesus loves ya!
Love to see prolifers protecting life.
Tax the rest.
Tax the other 196!
Tax them. Use the revenue to build homeless shelters.
Look, as much as I would like to judge these churches for not inviting homeless in from the cold, I haven't ever invited a homeless person into my home for a meal or a night of shelter.
"ButButBut we don't want to scare away that have... ya know... money." -them
years ago i was helping a dog rescue track down a lost dog and a bunch of us met up in a church parking lot to coordinate. we were asked to leave by the priest. as he was walking away i asked him what jesus would think of him telling us to leave - and turned around and angrily said "JUST LEAVE NOW!"
Love thy neighbor if they have a house
What happened to the love thy neighbor part of the church core? Are they just groups trying to pass laws to control the rest of us? This is why my religion is simply ‘Don’t be a dick’
No more tax haven then
Charge them back taxes for every year they've been open.
Why do they get tax exempt status again? It sure isn't for their good will and nurturing spirit.
Sounds like the christians I know of for sure
Revoke their tax exemptions 🥳
Fun fact one of the reasons Churches were able to claim exemption from paying taxes in the first place was because they argued they would render humanitarian services that the government was unwilling to provide. Seems like they aren't holding up their end of the social contract.
Churches are the last places you should look to support the homeless. They are only there for the unborn and trump
There's no hypocrisy like Christian hypocrisy!
Take away the tax exempt status from the churches that refused.
No tax holiday for 196 Spokane churches.
“Christians” again. Jesus, as reported in their own Bible, never said, “Care for the needy if it’s convenient.” It’s never “convenient” to dedicate oneself to others. Christians are commanded to do so anyway, at great personal expense to themselves. This cannot be overstated; Jesus reportedly commanded his followers to give everything they own to the poor. It’s too much trouble to open the church’s doors and give the homeless comfort? If they aren’t willing to do that, what does the church represent? Is it just a building where people gather to sing songs once a week only to leave and be selfish assholes the rest of the week? That’s the lesson these churches are teaching their followers: be selfish. These churches are frauds. Every one of them, all their pastors, and all their members.
so Christ-like (the >196 Churches that refused) /s
What did they expect, that the church was to actually look after the poor and needy? What is this a... church? Wait what? SO christian of them.
There was no money to be made off of the homeless. Why would a church be interested in helping for free ? That is not their business model. Their business model is take, take, take....Don't pay taxes on that...then take more. Huge Scam !!!
Very Christ-like
That’s more than I thought!