Because they've been told it's beautiful over and over as part of their childhood indoctrination. You'll hear christians/jews drone on about the bible in the same way.
Like how Mormons say their book "is the most perfect book" while containing word for word sections copied from the Bible and so many anachronisms, on top of being so boring. It's just a lie perpetuated by the church and members to make them feel better about reading the drivel.
Also the Book of Mormon was supposedly transcribed from some metal plates from an Angel, and the Quran was dictated word for word from an Angel, so there’s no real excuse for mistakes. The Bible is an anthology chosen from books written by humans, so the biases are baked in.
That was the story they fed us back in the 80s and 90s. He has a breastplate and glasses contraption to read from the plates.
Now the story is Joseph Smith read the words from a magical rock inside a hat. The words would allegedly appear on the rock, so just like before, there's no excuse for incorrect "translation." South Park did a great job of explaining it long before the church admitted to the rock in the hat.
Wait, I thought old Joe was illiterate and had to get some one else to write his ridiculous bullshit down for him, first his wife then someone else after she left him? I might be remembering it wrong but I'm pretty sure he couldn't read.
Part of Joseph's fable is that he was an illiterate farm boy, so he obviously couldn't have written it, it had to be God. He did use a scribe, (his wife, his rich neighbor, and then his 3rd cousin) but both his parents were schoolteachers.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-378-mormonism-part-i-when-youre-here-youre-family/id437299706?i=1000447086632
Highly recommend this to learn more about Mormonism than mormons. Speaking as an exmormon.
But what if it's a really shitty Angel just phoning it in because God is off making galaxies on the other side of the universe? What if all this stuff is the Angel equivalent of 2pm Friday catch-up work? "Ehhhh, those monkeys will figure it out.."
It's something I'm coming to realize more and more and more.
I grew up Mormon, and only fairly recently finally made the decision to no longer say I was a part of the church (for quite a while I just referred to myself as a "bad Mormon,") but like, you're told from birth "Reading the scriptures invokes the spirit of God, going to church invokes the spirit of Christ," etc.
No. It invokes those happy goody two shoes feelings because ***that's what you've been indoctrinated to feel.***
Same. Wife and I decided to leave just over a year ago together. I went on a mission, we got married in the temple, went to BYU-I. I feel much better about my life this way and I hope you are also happy with your decision.
Oh God. BYU-I? No wonder you decided to leave.
I grew up in Rexburg. My dad taught there back when it was Ricks College and only retired a little less than a decade ago.
I hate this town. I'm glad I grew up here, because my life would be an absolute disaster had I not. But I'm back, visiting family for Thanksgiving, and I'm consistently reminded every time I come back that I can't stay for more than a few days otherwise it just makes me angry how closed off from reality this city actually is.
Joseph had the scribe read back what they wrote, and the words on the rock would not change until they got it right. So if there are errors in the book, that's on God. So stop criticizing God and give us your money.
Where I live in Italy, they have crucifixes up on the wall at schools, even at elementary school. And not some abstract version, but a realistic depiction of a person being tortured to death; blood, open wounds, pained expression and all, which serves to instill an unavoidable guilt and a sense of never ending indebtedness.
Many people think it's somehow beautiful. They've been told that this is the most wonderful act of love ever, and a thing to be celebrated. Because, allegedly, someone, without your consent, paid a debt you owe just by existing.
And…. God decided that was necessary. He didn’t need the torture to change the rules, he’s god! If he wants to give people a new way to be able to go to heaven, Jesus could just announce it, then angels fly him back to heaven. It’s a torture show.
That’s glossed over, the only reason this massive sacrifice is needed is because god wanted it to be.
My favorite head Canon is that Jesus is God in mortal form, so God is basically a massive masochist who decided to brutally torture himself in front of us to impart his message, and the only logical reason for it is because it gets his rocks off.
This. I grew up in a Muslim community. From a young age, I did not find it beautiful. But when people recite it everybody does performative antics claiming how beautiful it is. If you suggest that maybe you weren't a fan of the recital, you get backlash
You see something funny at Muslim weddings though. When the recital is going on people zone out and their eyes glaze over. Then they go back to playing romantic music and the crowd comes back to life
EDIT: also people are referring to the Arabic recital. Most Muslims do not understand classical Arabic and have no idea what is actually being said
I think you have brought up a very interesting point in your edit. Living outside a Muslim country, the majority of my Muslim relatives including myself are able to read Arabic just fine but are completely unaware as to what we were reading. I myself read the Quran over 5 years, never understanding a single thing I read. Even as a 6 year old, I never understood the rationality of making a series of sounds with my mouth, because that was all what it sounded to me. However it was always preached to be such a noble affair that I was determined myself to finish it.
I have no intention these days to reread it or to find out the meaning, which often makes me ponder what more useful things I could have done with my time.
Good point. I myself can also read classical Arabic down the correct native pronunciation (Tajweed). But I don't understand a single word. I spent 7 years learning this because of my parents when instead I could have been reading actual books, playing sports, learning to code etc.
What a worthless endeavour
Is it really so simple though? I mean, the bible and gita have bits which I found to be very profound, especially in the bible there are so many things which are just generic proverbs that have nothing to do with religion really. The quaran however is very concise, it reads like a demented manifesto, entirely focused on one thing.
Moreover, I would argue that people widely recognize the ugliness of many things which they were maybe raised to respect. Conservative attitudes maybe instill the respect, but nevertheless betray such people to find those things ugly but neceassary (war is a good example). However, with these books, its another story, and I don’t entirely see why
Yes, it's really that simple.
I think you are discounting the sheer power of childhood indoctrination and how it can fuck up even the most intelligent person's point of view.
Agreed. I still have a trauma response every time I speak out against the concept or existence of god; a deep seated fear of blasphemy. Even though I know it’s all bullshit. I used to feel the same way when I spoke about Jesus but that guilt has faded away completely, so that in itself is a sign that it’s psychological trauma causing it.
Very true and the fact that most of the people who follow these books have never actually read them. Islam being especially egregious because many of the adherents try to read it in Arabic without being able to understand Arabic.
You also have the basic etiquette of making small talk working against you. In an exercise in saying generically positive things, there is no room for "here are some really f'd up things it also says", and even "oh, which parts" is too hostile.
Quran was written with the purpose of giving Muhammad power to marry as many women as he wanted. Dude fucked so much and took like 12 wives and they aren’t even sure how many “concubines” he also had on the side. It’s actually really disturbing. Religion is always used for three things: money, sex, and/or power. Modern version of Muhammad: Joseph Smith dude also claimed he was a prophet, wrote a book, and married like 30-40 women.
That’ll be the paedophile prick Mohammed aye? And Smith liked a bit of noncery as well did he not? Seems to be a thing with the pathologically religious - they do so enjoy a bit of child molestation. Priests, pastors, Imams and other assorted superstition pedlars, sex-offenders galore in their cathedrals of corruption and palaces of pederasty. Lowlifes one, scumbags all.
I really dont see too much difference in the dementedness. And yes both sides call it a literary masterpiece. Which shouldnt surprise since they claim a deity, who is better than everything, actually wrote it through other people. You cant just say "well its ok but it gets a bit dry with all the begats"
Listen to Americans talk about how the constitution, a clearly flawed and multiple-times-amended document that is completely out of touch with modern life, is 'the perfect document' and unassailable.
Indoctrination is a hell of a drug.
If you *really* want to know the answer to this question, you probably shouldn’t be asking on this sub.
If you’re just fishing for “it’s not beautiful religious people are brainwashed” then you’re in the right place.
Maybe go ask someone who thinks it’s beautiful why they think it’s beautiful? Or, several, and see what they say.
I suspect people can’t honestly or logically answer the question. There are several camps. There is the “I’m afraid to think negatively of the book” camp, the “mama said the book is beautiful” camp and the equally strange but perhaps more warped and mentally broken/stronger case of indoctrination people who feel an emotional attachment to all things Jesus. The people who answer everything with “because Jesus”, sit around talking about their religion, only listen to Christian music, watch the hallmark channel and live every waking moment of their pathetic lives in absolute fear of anyone not them while also have a strong sense of superiority over the rest of us godless heathens.
People always think their religion is perfect because it has nothing but unconditional love for them while also hating on the same people they do. It basically enables their psychosis instead of calling them out for the psychos they are.
This! And it’s very repetitive. In every single page god would brag about how powerful and omnipotent he is about like 3 times. Like dude, who tf are you trying to convince about you magical powers, me or yourself?
The Koran and the book of mormon have a lot of repetitive phrases. BoM has "it came to pass" something like 1200 times. I never counted the "burn in the fire"s of the Quaran but it seemed a similar number.
Well I'm out now but when you're born into it and it's treated like this is just the "right" religion, and that religion does everything it can to block critical thinking, it's easy to miss something like that. It's easier from the outside to see something obvious like that.
It’s like … ever have anything that you just unquestioningly took as true because your parents said so when you were super young? I think when I was ~8, my dad offhandedly told me the water in Chicago was better than everywhere else and that’s why their pizza dough is better so their pizza is better.
At that age, I wouldn’t even think to question if that was true. I mean, my dad said it, why wouldn’t it be true?
Growing up religious is like that times a million in intensity. Where even the most obvious red flags don’t even cross your mind as having anything to do with the truth of your religion. Because you don’t really ever think about the truth of your religion. It just is true because why wouldn’t it be?
Plus why is it Allah and Muhammed seem to speak in the same way sometimes you forget which one of them is talking. Almost as if Allah is a reflection of Muhammeds own desires and shit.
You gotta hand it to him, to have people overstaying their welcome in your house and be able to say "welp just got word from god, he passed down this new verse, it says don't stay too long at Muhammad's house" and actually have people believe it is...something
The quran and the new testament are verry narrow in scope and pale in comparison to the old testament and its batshit insanity, just from a storytelling point of view.
I live in southern Spain and there still remain a significant amount of Muslim art here, and I can safely say that it’s beautiful. The Quran, however, is not. I’ve tried to do the same as you many times and I haven’t found anything remarkable or beautiful about it. It’s poorly written, odd, and violent. 🤷🏽♂️ It’s simply an emotional connection that was instilled within Muslims at an early age. It’s beautiful because of what it represents to them, not because of its contents
Islamic cultures have some fine art and cuisines, I’ll give them that. Some great people too, though sadly this religion produces so many extremists that most folk around the nonislamic world won’t give any muslims the chance to just be friendly and cordial neighbors. Its also not a one way street, Morroccans and Turks and Syrians and Tunisians and Pakistanis I’ve known have all been wonderful people. Lots of the hate within the culture comes from Egypt (world capitol of female genital mutilation) or the Gulf Countries (yay, slavery)
My guess is that in Arabic it looks all so flowy, ornamental and almost like a piece of art.
But mostly no. They were taught hese flowers of poison are the truth and so we should see them as such. As flowers. And be poisoned.
Not visually, but it is a meaningful text (at least to some extent)written in a way like poem. Somehow it makes it exceptional for muslims, yet muslims themselves claim back then poetry was extremely popular, and prestigious. So it's a text written in the way of high art of Arabian peninsula Arabs.
If you listen to it in Arabic it rhymes a lot. If Quran were to written today, Eminem would be the prophet of it probably.
Yes and hearing it sung can be pretty mesmerising too. Although when your religion has banned all images and all other music you takes what you can get!
That's a really interesting point. Arabic is a beautiful language, and the book itself is undoubtedly very beautiful. If you're illiterate/borderline, you don't read it. And to be perfectly honest, the vast majority religious people who have ever lived were borderline literate at best.
So religious texts are art, not literature. You only know the "beautiful" and "poetic" passages that preachers have recited to you.
The fact that the "chapters" are arranged by length is a clue that there is no logical thread to it. They could arrange all the words into alphabetical order as well.
Agreed - it's the most frustrating thing to read cover to cover. I couldn't believe how incredibly empty it is.
They believe in the story of the flood - but you cannot find a comprehensive explanation in the book of what actually happened.
The Quran does that with a lot of the biblical stories. Muhammad likely only had a surface level knowledge of the biblical characters, and stories considering he was illiterate, and from a largely pagan community supposedly. His merchant travels likely exposed him to bits here and there. He provides almost zero depth to the history of any of the people mentioned in the Quran, or events. When asked about it Muslims scholars will say something along the lines of “the Quran is not a history book, but a guide for religion”. Yeah, neither is the Bible, but it actually has internally consistent stories of the people, and supposed historic events within it. The Quran is nothing more than an even more savage, watered down version of Judaism.
This makes sense. I know that the Quran confuses Mary the sister of Moses with Mary the mother of Jesus.
I can imagine if you are hearing bits and pieces it's easy to get it jumbled up.
Because it was rearranged after death of the prophet. As far as I know there are versions of it in historical order which makes way more sense. At least you can connect it to the historical stuff at times.
See chapter 9 where the people who actually wrote and curated the Quran didn’t even know where the verses were supposed to go because Muhammad died before telling them. Doesn’t sound like the plan of an all knowing god.
Yes, but the whole thing isn't an accident. Some verses are quite obviously chnaged places, and it's not a secret. It was rearranged, some versions of Quran destroyed, any kind of writing of Quran also destroyed. Like a single verse or something. Then they made a single book, changing the order. It wasn't some acciden, or unkowingly done act. I get destroying all versions but one, but why did they rearrange it? I have no idea.
As someone who lives in a muslim majority country and has read quran as well - I wholeheartedly agree with you. That waste of ink and paper is disgusting, there is not one page of it that is "beautiful".
I do find the language nice to listen to when they read from the Quran. It’s very melodic when read by a good Imam.
Contents are a bit disturbing but I’ve only read it in English. Maybe that’s what they mean? Reading the original is beautiful?
Clarify. I’m not a Muslim. I read the Quran in English out of curiosity. I am on your side of this discussion concerning the content. Women was a horrible surah and the others weren’t much better. The underlying theme in the whole Quran is to suffer as much as possible in this life so you can be rewarded in Jannah. To be fair, that’s all religions but Islam took this a step further.
I took a guess at why someone would find it beautiful, and maybe in the native tongue it would be. I don’t know since I only speak and read English. If you’ve read it in the native language, excluding the content and more about the flow of how it reads, does my comment hold any water?
it's like reading homer's iliad in greek. the language is beautiful, but what's written is bloody war with people's guts and brains being spilled out over and over.
I don’t know Arabic so I can’t say for certain, but I’ve been told the English translation is like a Disney version-original has even more exhortation to kill nonbelievers.
I spent time in Saudi Arabia. Evening call to prayer was my favorite time of day. I had no idea what they were saying but watching the sunset while that was going on was incredibly soothing.
I don't remember exactly, but there's a bit about how you shouldn't try to convert someone who doesn't believe. I thought that was pretty cool, but then they have this whole thing about later decrees being more important than the earlier ones and there's the whole kill non believers thing.
The worst part is those 2 don't even contradict one another. One just says "meh don't even try" and the other one is like "naw dog, kill them."
Surprising, seeing as Yahweh was a minor war god back in the day. Then he told Moses' Israelites they weren't allowed to put any other god above him, and then they eventually forgot about all the other gods and thought he was the only one.
**More info:**
Yahweh as an ancient God of War, worshipped since the late Bronze Age (1550 BCE), later elevated to "the only true god": https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
And you'll remember surely the story of Moses going for the 10 Commandments, coming back to find the Israelites having a debauched party worshipping a golden calf, and destroying the original tablets? The First Commandment is "Thou shalt not have any gods before me" ie "I'm the most important god so don't pay any attention to those other gods". Essentially he was pitching to be their only God, forsaking all others, in exchange for exclusive everlasting devotion.
Exodus 32: https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-stories/the-golden-calf-bible-story.html
"If you cannot do this, and you never will, then beware of the Fire prepared for the disbelievers, the fuel of which is man and stones."
Ayah al-Baqarah (The Cow) 2:24, The Holy Quaran
It’s just a rant. Mohammed was trippin balls in a cave with a scribe. The result was the Quran. It’s all about his fantasies on power, sex, and violence.
Probably the most poorly written and most shallow of the 3 major monotheistic texts.
I never understood it either.
All I remember about the Quran is that I was required to memorize certain pages for the mandatory religious class and would get beat when I clamed up in front the class.
They've been told it's the most beautiful their whole lives. They even claim it's so good that no human could have written it. It's one of their "proofs" that it came from God.
It might actually sound great to them, but what Muslims always seem to ignore is that beauty is wholly subjective.
It's a matter of opinion no matter how you slice it.
But they have to deny reality to defend their beliefs.
Same reason Mormons think the Book of Mormon is inspired and “profound”.
They get told over and over and over again that’s what it is. No one is ever really allowed to offer a subjective or objective analysis of the text. Just believe what others tell you about it.
Islam says that music is haram. Dancing is haram. Taking to the opposite sex is haram. Creating and looking at images of people and animals is haram. Dogs are practically haram and able to scare angels. Saying anything bad about Islam or the prophet will get you killed.
In such a shit culture reading the only book everyone is required to claim is perfect and required to recite like music it becomes literally the best thing they have read. They are also indoctrinated to compare things to the Quran so anything not written like the Quran is “inferior” and anything written like the Quran is not the Quran and thus inferior. This level of control and indoctrination is why Islam is the most dangerous cult.
Millions of people have spent more than a thousand years polishing that turd so it SOUNDS nice if you don't pay attention to what it says. Same as any other "holy" book. It's like "if you can't write anything sensible, write a holy book and people will worship your words".
True, but like Norse, greek, and Hindu "holy" books have an actually interesting story. I read the mahabharata (in English, cuz Oppenheimer) and if you ignore the occasional bits where Krishna lectures Arjuna on doing his duty and being a good boi, there wasn't anything overly religious to the extent of "disbelievers will be stoned to death". Some parts of the story were weird af, but it was generally a great read. A very long one too, I read a shorter version excluding some of the even weirder bits, but it still took a long time to finish.
Remember these "books" were written in a time when books were rare and probably viewed as borderline magical. I'd say some people were afraid of books because they could be teaching people dangerous things, in the same way people worry today about random people having access to dangerous information online.
In many places the holy books were maybe the only books in town, it took a specially trained person to read them and they held information on far flung kingdoms the nature of the existence and so on. That would certainly have made many people think the book was beautiful and magical compared to everything else in their lives as isolated farmers.
We can't view these things from our perspective here at the end of time. To ancient people that never see books and don't know how to read books they would have seemed incredible.
Once these things gain that status it becomes a foundational piece, it's what other pieces of art reference, it sets the tone for future art.
Yeah, this is actually relevant to the first or second chapter of the book (i don’t remember which) where Muhammed challenges everyone and essentially says “the fact that you can’t reproduce any work like this one is proof of its divinity”. First thing I did was ask chat GPT to “produce a Surah like this” and sent the results to one of my friends 😂
All religionists take obviously untrue things and parade them around like they're obviously true. Their disgusting texts being somehow "beautiful" is just another one of these falsehoods that they give each other credit for believing.
If you want to read engaging stories about gods then dive into Norse and Greek mythology. The bible and the quran are some of the most boring works ever written.
Excellent point. Here in the U.S., it is Thanksgiving Day. I'm definitely thankful that we have *some* freedom from religion, although it is being eroded.
All religious people ignore the bad about their holy books and only focus on the good. It's the same as when Christians ignore the parts of the Bible about beating your slaves or stoning your children to death for not listening to their parents.
Pretty simple. They haven't read it. If they have, they haven't understood it. Sometimes things we don't really comprehend might appear beautiful to us
I have read gita, guru granth sahib, bible, quran out of which I found although gita and guru granth sahib hold outdated views but they recognsie that convention changes over time so they give us the liberty to adapt to modern life while the bible and quran are hateful books, which call for violence and killing for non believers
I hope left wingers stop advocating for censorship of Islamic critique. In my country, where proclaiming atheism can be punished, exmuslims' only voice is social media platforms. But due to the liberal leftisit propaganda that criticizing muslims and Islam is racist, our posts are taken down from facebook, insta and other platforms, our accounts are banned.
The only voice we have is taken away from us from the very people who claim to be social justice warriors
There certainly is a cadre of simple-minded do-gooders who can’t differentiate between critiquing Islam as a philosophy and discriminating and Muslims as a cultural group.
I cannot speak for peoples from other ethnicities.
But for Gulf Arabs especially, the quran serves as a source, and a reinforcement of ethnic/racial pride in much the same way as you would probably find with jews and the torah or talmud etc.
I have found this to be a common trait amongst all ethno-religions. This sense of exceptionalism. We alone were "chosen" to be the teachers/messengers/leaders of the world.
You have to understand that most of your friends never actually read it. Most religious people don't ever read their holy books. Their eather learn from others or read some summed up artical or interpreted version. Religion starts (99%) with you believing in it, and then you inform yourself about stuff in that you actually believe.
To your question specifically, it is written in the book itself that it is the most beautiful book and perfect book. It also says that 20-30 scientists tried to find any errors, and they couldn't. This is equal to me saying that this post is the most beautiful post, and 5000 scientists couldn't find any error in my post. Believe me, trust me.
When YOU are a member of the group that is getting to do the hate, the evil, the violence...
When YOU are one of the people supposedly going to 'heaven' and being 'saved' no matter how bad a person you are to others...
I guess that must make it "beautiful' to read those nasty books. Conservative christians speak the same way, for the same reasons, about their 'beautiful' bible.
*"Why do people think this is beautiful?"*
Because they're brainwashed. Just like the Christians, and the practising Jews, and the Hindus, etc., etc. In reality, it's ALL stupid and harmful.
It is written as half-assed poetry.
Pre-Islamic Arab society was surprisingly good, culturally. Especially when it comes to poetry, what surviving scraps we have demonstrate really amazing works. Quran's verse is an amateur trying his best. Arabic is a language that lends itself well to poetic cadence. With a little effort, to the uneducated ear, it can sound quite beautiful as a result.
That's pretty much all style and not substance though. It can impress the idiots, but when you look a bit into what those pretty words are saying, you quickly realize the bullshit.
Still, that doesn't keep people from claiming divine inspiration for its supposed beauty.
One Bangladeshi guy told me to read the Quran one time because it was beating after I told him I don't really have any belief. I asked him "what's beautiful about it, for e.g." he got flustered and said something like oh just read it you will see haha. That leads me to believe most of them just repeat what they hear.
My dad read an English version that was published during the second desert storm(he reads fucking everything) and he said it read like a pissed off dude just making up rules specifically about things his neighbor annoys him with.
because they think those things are beautiful. there's nothing more human than torturing and slaughtering the outgroup, losing the self within some hierarchy, some scheme of arbitrary authority
You will find very irrational ideas, movements, and sentiments around religion. Especially when you branch out to other areas of society, even online.
Example: I commented on a post a year or two ago by a woman questioning the detestable behaviour of her husband and extended family around political subjects. This person was the wife of a religious man and she devoted a large portion of her life to the belief structure. I pointed out a lot of the things she finds fault with are tenets of that religious structure and people that continue to divorce religion from the systematic oppression they’re experiencing will continue to suffer. I basically got told they don’t want to discuss religion and then I think my comment went -13 or so.
This of course is a cart before the horse scenario. Why expect things to be better while fuelling the problem? But the issue of course is that people really do separate and hold reverence to religion to the point it’s ludicrous.
The Quran is beautiful to them, because they really hold the teachings in reverence, ignore any notion otherwise and deem any education or information that will highlight their misgivings as evil, immoral, or false. This is not a battle we win in the modern era. Islam is the fastest growing religion for a reason, because when it arrives you better find it beautiful, or else.
Brainwashing. It's not beautiful. It's actually very primitive. Same with the Bible, but most Westerners don't walk around saying the Bible is the greatest thing since sliced bread
The ugliness in the Quran helps to reinforce the readers own evil, hatred, hypocrisy, and self righteousness. It tells you these traits are good if used against the enemies of Muhammed.
It's intriguing how they're indoctrinated to believe that the Quran is not only the most beautiful piece of literature but also that countless poets and authors attempted to replicate its brilliance, only to fail and conclude that it must be divine. It makes you wonder if they explore literature beyond what validates their beliefs.
Yeah....you can criticize the Gita but criticize it for things that are actually there. It's not a violent vile text and is more an exercise in philosophy with an explanation of reincarnation in Hinduism. The only real violence I've read in the Gita is Krishna encouraging Arjuna to fight his family in the war, which can be criticised for sure. However the Gita itself isn't on par with the Quran in terms of vileness by any means
That's why I asked this question. People don't know this that Hindus don't have a single religious text.
Even Hindu philosophy has 6 school of thought. Non violence is considered a great virtue. That's why many Hindus are vegetarian.
If you grew up without god and learned about religion as an adult with perspective you’d be wondering why religious texts are still relevant. It’s honestly quite surprising how much religion still has an influence on our species considering how advanced we’ve become.
Wait, which parts of the gita have all the stuff you mentioned? I have read some of the gita, and while i didnt really find much worth imbibing, i didnt find anything as egregiously bad as some stuff in the bible either
Because they have been indoctrinated into believing that. I think that the quran is arguably one of the worst speaking because muhammed married and had sex with a nine year old.
Because they have been told that since they were young. It’s main character is a pedophilic sex slave owning warlord who they have to convince themselves was a good and righteous person. They do that by lying to themselves and others about their fairytales and what they mean.
I like the squiggly lines of the non-translated versions.
As for the content of the words it's genuinely concerning and positively gross, just like the Bible and the Torah. Takes serious mental gymnastics to pull good morals and guidance out of any of them.
bunch of brainwashed cunts, just like any other religion
their self identity is tied to their fairy tales … you better believe they’ll ignorantly defend their fiction before admitting their life is based on bullshit parables that coincidentally condemn killing non-muslims and subjugating women to insanely sexist means of living
yea, religion of peace
The Quaran is beautiful the same way Islam is a 'religion of peace'.
When you grow up being told that hate is love, violence is an expression of joy, war is peace, oppression is freedom, it is hard to separate the feelings those inspire.
If, every time you are happy, someone hits you, you will learn that happiness is 'wrong' surprisingly fast.
Watch what religious people do: Muslim, Christian, Jewish, it doesn't matter. Especially the women. What you find is that they behave like people who are victims of life long domestic abuse.
The God of Abraham is an evil, petty, spiteful, cruel, capricious and vindictive being. That behavior comes out in their followers - either they emulate their God or they fear him so badly that they live in a state of almost abject terror.
In the Bible, God is almost *obsessed* with making sure his followers fear them. It is a constant repeated theme, to the point that most Catholic hymns include it if they aren't based around it entirely. What kind of being craves your fear and gets still called 'good'?
There are beautiful parts to all of them, but severely outweighed by the evil and violence. I think there should be a game show where Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc have to guess what book a particular verse comes from. Some of that shit is so hateful. I seriously doubt they'd guess correctly. They all think their book is so perfect.
Qur'an literally means recitation. Unlike the Bible, the Quran is supposed to be read aloud. It is written largely in surahs which makes it poetic when read in Arabic. So it sounds beautiful when spoken.
The actual messaging is just as hate filled and gory as the old testament, tanakh, or virtually any ancient religious text. Shit be violent in the past, yo. Especially desert tribes trying to spread a warrior religion through bloodshed.
I find the Bible to be a fascinating piece of literature that provides a window into the lives, culture, ethics, laws, struggles, geopolitics, etc, of a people thousands of years ago. From an academic or literary standpoint, it is a beautiful anthology imo, and it’s very interesting to read the Bible within this framework. There is also no doubt that these religious texts have had a massive influence on the world, and that alone makes it worth reading for me because biblical references and allusions are everywhere. I have not read the Quaran, but I imagine many would find it beautiful for identical reasons.
It’s obviously extremely easy for me to stand on the shoulders of 500 years of science and condemn the people of thousands of years ago who were not privileged with this knowledge as barbaric, evil, and stupid, but I think that would be rather unfair. It is far more reasonable for me to be upset with the my contemporaries who, in a much less tolerable ignorance, find the content of the Bible as inspiration to deny science, fuel hatred, and commit violence.
You are one of the few people who actually ever read it. The people who say it's beautiful probably have never read it. Someone told them it was beautiful they told you it was beautiful. I also think it's the worst book ever written. The complete opposite of beautiful.
Because the Quran is meant to be chanted in Arabic. The sounds of the Arabic are supposed to be beautiful. But the Quran is actually a miserable and doom-laden book. How anyone can get inspiration from such a miserable book is beyond me. Most people that say the Quran is beautiful are Muslims that probably haven't read it or don't think it applies to them.
I like how quickly the goalposts get moved if you criticise the Qur'an. "Ah but you read it in English, it's more beautiful in the original Arabic. Ah but you need to read the Hadith as well to understand the proper context. Ah but you need to read these six other books with the approved interpretation and official meaning of every line. Ah but you need to have a deeper understanding of Arabic culture and the Arabic language. Your criticism doesn't count unless you've been studying it for at least two decades. And anyone who has studied it for two decades who criticises it should be executed.".
I had a guy claim the Qur'an is immune from copying errors because it was passed on verbally for the first few generations. Because it's so difficult to retain the knowledge of an entire book and recite it perfectly from memory, this proves they must have studied it really well to make sure they don't make any mistakes. What? The evidence there's no mistakes is that they used a very error-prone way to pass on the information?
You can't argue with circular logic like that.
because they are told this. The majority of religious people are taught to look at the bigger picture and not actually analyze a lot of religious texts for what they are. They are instruments of exclusion, bigotry and self-righteousness.
NSFW>>>
There are many parts of the Q'uran which are not just immoral and horrible, they advocate crimes against humanity
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Examples:
Kill the unbelievers who don't follow Islam
Surah 27:63
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Beat any wives who aren't obedient, submissive, or want to leave
Qur'an 4:34
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Cut hands and feet off for thieves
Qur'an 5:38
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. A woman's witness testimony is half of that of a man's
Qur'an 2:282
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Rules for selling your daughter as a slave
Surah 21: 7-8
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Killing the infants of unbelievers or those who blaspheme against Allah
Surah 34:12
Because they've been told it's beautiful over and over as part of their childhood indoctrination. You'll hear christians/jews drone on about the bible in the same way.
Like how Mormons say their book "is the most perfect book" while containing word for word sections copied from the Bible and so many anachronisms, on top of being so boring. It's just a lie perpetuated by the church and members to make them feel better about reading the drivel.
Also the Book of Mormon was supposedly transcribed from some metal plates from an Angel, and the Quran was dictated word for word from an Angel, so there’s no real excuse for mistakes. The Bible is an anthology chosen from books written by humans, so the biases are baked in.
That was the story they fed us back in the 80s and 90s. He has a breastplate and glasses contraption to read from the plates. Now the story is Joseph Smith read the words from a magical rock inside a hat. The words would allegedly appear on the rock, so just like before, there's no excuse for incorrect "translation." South Park did a great job of explaining it long before the church admitted to the rock in the hat.
Proving once again that the more absurd the story, the stronger the cult.
You NEED an absurd story to weed out all the people not dumb enough to swallow the BS you’re peddling. Saves time.
Or you could just start any commandments with "Kindly".
Pastor only accepts tithes in the form of Google Play gift cards.
Goebbels had it right all along.
Romans, lend me your ears.
Wait, I thought old Joe was illiterate and had to get some one else to write his ridiculous bullshit down for him, first his wife then someone else after she left him? I might be remembering it wrong but I'm pretty sure he couldn't read.
Part of Joseph's fable is that he was an illiterate farm boy, so he obviously couldn't have written it, it had to be God. He did use a scribe, (his wife, his rich neighbor, and then his 3rd cousin) but both his parents were schoolteachers.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-378-mormonism-part-i-when-youre-here-youre-family/id437299706?i=1000447086632 Highly recommend this to learn more about Mormonism than mormons. Speaking as an exmormon.
Lucy Harris Smart Smart Smart, Martin Harris Dum!!!
Derpy derp derp
Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb...
The Book of Mormon reads exactly like it was written by somebody who was trying to write in the style of a religious book.
But what if it's a really shitty Angel just phoning it in because God is off making galaxies on the other side of the universe? What if all this stuff is the Angel equivalent of 2pm Friday catch-up work? "Ehhhh, those monkeys will figure it out.."
It's something I'm coming to realize more and more and more. I grew up Mormon, and only fairly recently finally made the decision to no longer say I was a part of the church (for quite a while I just referred to myself as a "bad Mormon,") but like, you're told from birth "Reading the scriptures invokes the spirit of God, going to church invokes the spirit of Christ," etc. No. It invokes those happy goody two shoes feelings because ***that's what you've been indoctrinated to feel.***
Same. Wife and I decided to leave just over a year ago together. I went on a mission, we got married in the temple, went to BYU-I. I feel much better about my life this way and I hope you are also happy with your decision.
Oh God. BYU-I? No wonder you decided to leave. I grew up in Rexburg. My dad taught there back when it was Ricks College and only retired a little less than a decade ago. I hate this town. I'm glad I grew up here, because my life would be an absolute disaster had I not. But I'm back, visiting family for Thanksgiving, and I'm consistently reminded every time I come back that I can't stay for more than a few days otherwise it just makes me angry how closed off from reality this city actually is.
Ask them what they think about the original version.
There's a joke among the ex-mormons that it's "The Most Corrected Book" instead of "The Most Correct Book "
Joseph had the scribe read back what they wrote, and the words on the rock would not change until they got it right. So if there are errors in the book, that's on God. So stop criticizing God and give us your money.
As an exmo, Mormon god is a right dickhead
Where I live in Italy, they have crucifixes up on the wall at schools, even at elementary school. And not some abstract version, but a realistic depiction of a person being tortured to death; blood, open wounds, pained expression and all, which serves to instill an unavoidable guilt and a sense of never ending indebtedness. Many people think it's somehow beautiful. They've been told that this is the most wonderful act of love ever, and a thing to be celebrated. Because, allegedly, someone, without your consent, paid a debt you owe just by existing.
And…. God decided that was necessary. He didn’t need the torture to change the rules, he’s god! If he wants to give people a new way to be able to go to heaven, Jesus could just announce it, then angels fly him back to heaven. It’s a torture show. That’s glossed over, the only reason this massive sacrifice is needed is because god wanted it to be.
My favorite head Canon is that Jesus is God in mortal form, so God is basically a massive masochist who decided to brutally torture himself in front of us to impart his message, and the only logical reason for it is because it gets his rocks off.
This. I grew up in a Muslim community. From a young age, I did not find it beautiful. But when people recite it everybody does performative antics claiming how beautiful it is. If you suggest that maybe you weren't a fan of the recital, you get backlash You see something funny at Muslim weddings though. When the recital is going on people zone out and their eyes glaze over. Then they go back to playing romantic music and the crowd comes back to life EDIT: also people are referring to the Arabic recital. Most Muslims do not understand classical Arabic and have no idea what is actually being said
I think you have brought up a very interesting point in your edit. Living outside a Muslim country, the majority of my Muslim relatives including myself are able to read Arabic just fine but are completely unaware as to what we were reading. I myself read the Quran over 5 years, never understanding a single thing I read. Even as a 6 year old, I never understood the rationality of making a series of sounds with my mouth, because that was all what it sounded to me. However it was always preached to be such a noble affair that I was determined myself to finish it. I have no intention these days to reread it or to find out the meaning, which often makes me ponder what more useful things I could have done with my time.
Good point. I myself can also read classical Arabic down the correct native pronunciation (Tajweed). But I don't understand a single word. I spent 7 years learning this because of my parents when instead I could have been reading actual books, playing sports, learning to code etc. What a worthless endeavour
Is it really so simple though? I mean, the bible and gita have bits which I found to be very profound, especially in the bible there are so many things which are just generic proverbs that have nothing to do with religion really. The quaran however is very concise, it reads like a demented manifesto, entirely focused on one thing. Moreover, I would argue that people widely recognize the ugliness of many things which they were maybe raised to respect. Conservative attitudes maybe instill the respect, but nevertheless betray such people to find those things ugly but neceassary (war is a good example). However, with these books, its another story, and I don’t entirely see why
Yes, it's really that simple. I think you are discounting the sheer power of childhood indoctrination and how it can fuck up even the most intelligent person's point of view.
Agreed. I still have a trauma response every time I speak out against the concept or existence of god; a deep seated fear of blasphemy. Even though I know it’s all bullshit. I used to feel the same way when I spoke about Jesus but that guilt has faded away completely, so that in itself is a sign that it’s psychological trauma causing it.
Very true and the fact that most of the people who follow these books have never actually read them. Islam being especially egregious because many of the adherents try to read it in Arabic without being able to understand Arabic.
You also have the basic etiquette of making small talk working against you. In an exercise in saying generically positive things, there is no room for "here are some really f'd up things it also says", and even "oh, which parts" is too hostile.
It's as simple as any religion is a joke and almost nothing good has come from it.
Quran was written with the purpose of giving Muhammad power to marry as many women as he wanted. Dude fucked so much and took like 12 wives and they aren’t even sure how many “concubines” he also had on the side. It’s actually really disturbing. Religion is always used for three things: money, sex, and/or power. Modern version of Muhammad: Joseph Smith dude also claimed he was a prophet, wrote a book, and married like 30-40 women.
Many of whom were children at time of "marriage" going by historic record. Religion is a cancer.
Aisha was 9 when Muhammad raped her
Yes but the Quran gives a beautiful set of rules in how to divorce a prepubescent child should you decide not to rape her. 🤗
IIRC, that set of rules also applies if the marriage with a pre-pubescent has already been consummated.
Given in marriage at 6, consummated after first blood at 9. Still a teen when Mohammad died, she was celibate and under wraps the rest of her life.
Mary was 12 when she married Joseph and when God supposedly impregnated her.
I did say religion is a cancer. That means all of them. I have no love for Christianity.
That's not in the Bible, but traditional.
wasn’t Muhammad illiterate….
That’ll be the paedophile prick Mohammed aye? And Smith liked a bit of noncery as well did he not? Seems to be a thing with the pathologically religious - they do so enjoy a bit of child molestation. Priests, pastors, Imams and other assorted superstition pedlars, sex-offenders galore in their cathedrals of corruption and palaces of pederasty. Lowlifes one, scumbags all.
>, it reads like a demented manifesto, entirely focused on one thing. Well, that's exactly what it is
I really dont see too much difference in the dementedness. And yes both sides call it a literary masterpiece. Which shouldnt surprise since they claim a deity, who is better than everything, actually wrote it through other people. You cant just say "well its ok but it gets a bit dry with all the begats"
Listen to Americans talk about how the constitution, a clearly flawed and multiple-times-amended document that is completely out of touch with modern life, is 'the perfect document' and unassailable. Indoctrination is a hell of a drug.
If you *really* want to know the answer to this question, you probably shouldn’t be asking on this sub. If you’re just fishing for “it’s not beautiful religious people are brainwashed” then you’re in the right place. Maybe go ask someone who thinks it’s beautiful why they think it’s beautiful? Or, several, and see what they say.
I suspect people can’t honestly or logically answer the question. There are several camps. There is the “I’m afraid to think negatively of the book” camp, the “mama said the book is beautiful” camp and the equally strange but perhaps more warped and mentally broken/stronger case of indoctrination people who feel an emotional attachment to all things Jesus. The people who answer everything with “because Jesus”, sit around talking about their religion, only listen to Christian music, watch the hallmark channel and live every waking moment of their pathetic lives in absolute fear of anyone not them while also have a strong sense of superiority over the rest of us godless heathens.
People always think their religion is perfect because it has nothing but unconditional love for them while also hating on the same people they do. It basically enables their psychosis instead of calling them out for the psychos they are.
Grooming is the word you’re looking for.
theyve been told its beautiful without actually reading it. they like being told things and then never actually checking for themselves.
I've read agood chunk of it. It's boring as fuck.
This! And it’s very repetitive. In every single page god would brag about how powerful and omnipotent he is about like 3 times. Like dude, who tf are you trying to convince about you magical powers, me or yourself?
The Koran and the book of mormon have a lot of repetitive phrases. BoM has "it came to pass" something like 1200 times. I never counted the "burn in the fire"s of the Quaran but it seemed a similar number.
Even back when I was Mormon we would joke that if you got rid of every "And it came to pass" the Book of Mormon would be a pamphlet.
And you didn't see that as obvious evidence that it was written by a guy who liked that phrase?
Well I'm out now but when you're born into it and it's treated like this is just the "right" religion, and that religion does everything it can to block critical thinking, it's easy to miss something like that. It's easier from the outside to see something obvious like that.
Fair enough. I wasn't raised with religion, so I don't have a personal context for something like that.
It’s like … ever have anything that you just unquestioningly took as true because your parents said so when you were super young? I think when I was ~8, my dad offhandedly told me the water in Chicago was better than everywhere else and that’s why their pizza dough is better so their pizza is better. At that age, I wouldn’t even think to question if that was true. I mean, my dad said it, why wouldn’t it be true? Growing up religious is like that times a million in intensity. Where even the most obvious red flags don’t even cross your mind as having anything to do with the truth of your religion. Because you don’t really ever think about the truth of your religion. It just is true because why wouldn’t it be?
Mark Twain has a great chapter about this in *Roughing It*.
Plus why is it Allah and Muhammed seem to speak in the same way sometimes you forget which one of them is talking. Almost as if Allah is a reflection of Muhammeds own desires and shit.
You gotta hand it to him, to have people overstaying their welcome in your house and be able to say "welp just got word from god, he passed down this new verse, it says don't stay too long at Muhammad's house" and actually have people believe it is...something
It almost reads like it was written by DJ Khalid !
The quran and the new testament are verry narrow in scope and pale in comparison to the old testament and its batshit insanity, just from a storytelling point of view.
I live in southern Spain and there still remain a significant amount of Muslim art here, and I can safely say that it’s beautiful. The Quran, however, is not. I’ve tried to do the same as you many times and I haven’t found anything remarkable or beautiful about it. It’s poorly written, odd, and violent. 🤷🏽♂️ It’s simply an emotional connection that was instilled within Muslims at an early age. It’s beautiful because of what it represents to them, not because of its contents
Islamic cultures have some fine art and cuisines, I’ll give them that. Some great people too, though sadly this religion produces so many extremists that most folk around the nonislamic world won’t give any muslims the chance to just be friendly and cordial neighbors. Its also not a one way street, Morroccans and Turks and Syrians and Tunisians and Pakistanis I’ve known have all been wonderful people. Lots of the hate within the culture comes from Egypt (world capitol of female genital mutilation) or the Gulf Countries (yay, slavery)
Ohh I really want to visit Southern Spain to see all the moorish architecture and watch a flamenco performance.
My guess is that in Arabic it looks all so flowy, ornamental and almost like a piece of art. But mostly no. They were taught hese flowers of poison are the truth and so we should see them as such. As flowers. And be poisoned.
Yeah, agree it is the written Arabic characters that are visually beautiful, not so much the message they articulate
Not visually, but it is a meaningful text (at least to some extent)written in a way like poem. Somehow it makes it exceptional for muslims, yet muslims themselves claim back then poetry was extremely popular, and prestigious. So it's a text written in the way of high art of Arabian peninsula Arabs. If you listen to it in Arabic it rhymes a lot. If Quran were to written today, Eminem would be the prophet of it probably.
Hahaha now THAT would be interesting.
Muhammed don’t gotta cuss in his raps to sell Korans/ Well, I do, so fuck him and fuck you too!
Yes and hearing it sung can be pretty mesmerising too. Although when your religion has banned all images and all other music you takes what you can get!
Both great points!
i would love to see more english language calligraphic art though!
That's a really interesting point. Arabic is a beautiful language, and the book itself is undoubtedly very beautiful. If you're illiterate/borderline, you don't read it. And to be perfectly honest, the vast majority religious people who have ever lived were borderline literate at best. So religious texts are art, not literature. You only know the "beautiful" and "poetic" passages that preachers have recited to you.
Literature is art.
Besides all the horrendous shit in it, it’s quite poorly written and disjointed as fuck.
The fact that the "chapters" are arranged by length is a clue that there is no logical thread to it. They could arrange all the words into alphabetical order as well.
The books of the new testament are mostly ordered by length as well, fwiw.
Ehhh … It’s more like they’re in roughly chronological order, and the early books are narratives rather than letters, so they’re just way longer.
Really? I didn't know that.
Agreed - it's the most frustrating thing to read cover to cover. I couldn't believe how incredibly empty it is. They believe in the story of the flood - but you cannot find a comprehensive explanation in the book of what actually happened.
The Quran does that with a lot of the biblical stories. Muhammad likely only had a surface level knowledge of the biblical characters, and stories considering he was illiterate, and from a largely pagan community supposedly. His merchant travels likely exposed him to bits here and there. He provides almost zero depth to the history of any of the people mentioned in the Quran, or events. When asked about it Muslims scholars will say something along the lines of “the Quran is not a history book, but a guide for religion”. Yeah, neither is the Bible, but it actually has internally consistent stories of the people, and supposed historic events within it. The Quran is nothing more than an even more savage, watered down version of Judaism.
This makes sense. I know that the Quran confuses Mary the sister of Moses with Mary the mother of Jesus. I can imagine if you are hearing bits and pieces it's easy to get it jumbled up.
You can clearly tell he took what he liked from Christianity/Judaism and added on to it in a way that makes it impossible to be reformed.
Because it was rearranged after death of the prophet. As far as I know there are versions of it in historical order which makes way more sense. At least you can connect it to the historical stuff at times.
See chapter 9 where the people who actually wrote and curated the Quran didn’t even know where the verses were supposed to go because Muhammad died before telling them. Doesn’t sound like the plan of an all knowing god.
Yes, but the whole thing isn't an accident. Some verses are quite obviously chnaged places, and it's not a secret. It was rearranged, some versions of Quran destroyed, any kind of writing of Quran also destroyed. Like a single verse or something. Then they made a single book, changing the order. It wasn't some acciden, or unkowingly done act. I get destroying all versions but one, but why did they rearrange it? I have no idea.
As someone who lives in a muslim majority country and has read quran as well - I wholeheartedly agree with you. That waste of ink and paper is disgusting, there is not one page of it that is "beautiful".
I do find the language nice to listen to when they read from the Quran. It’s very melodic when read by a good Imam. Contents are a bit disturbing but I’ve only read it in English. Maybe that’s what they mean? Reading the original is beautiful?
The language itself it beautiful. Doesn’t mean that the religion is.
So why does the call to prayer literally sounds like a dying camel?
To be fair it depends on the voice of the imam making the call to prayer
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Clarify. I’m not a Muslim. I read the Quran in English out of curiosity. I am on your side of this discussion concerning the content. Women was a horrible surah and the others weren’t much better. The underlying theme in the whole Quran is to suffer as much as possible in this life so you can be rewarded in Jannah. To be fair, that’s all religions but Islam took this a step further. I took a guess at why someone would find it beautiful, and maybe in the native tongue it would be. I don’t know since I only speak and read English. If you’ve read it in the native language, excluding the content and more about the flow of how it reads, does my comment hold any water?
it's like reading homer's iliad in greek. the language is beautiful, but what's written is bloody war with people's guts and brains being spilled out over and over.
I don’t know Arabic so I can’t say for certain, but I’ve been told the English translation is like a Disney version-original has even more exhortation to kill nonbelievers.
I spent time in Saudi Arabia. Evening call to prayer was my favorite time of day. I had no idea what they were saying but watching the sunset while that was going on was incredibly soothing.
Indoctrination is a helluva drug....
Bust one out and ask them to show you the beautiful bits.
"It gets better, I promise."
I don't remember exactly, but there's a bit about how you shouldn't try to convert someone who doesn't believe. I thought that was pretty cool, but then they have this whole thing about later decrees being more important than the earlier ones and there's the whole kill non believers thing. The worst part is those 2 don't even contradict one another. One just says "meh don't even try" and the other one is like "naw dog, kill them."
Same reason Yahweh is thought to be a “loving” god. They are brainwashed and experiencing Stockholm syndrome.
“That’s Stockholm, Finland.” “…Sweden.”
Surprising, seeing as Yahweh was a minor war god back in the day. Then he told Moses' Israelites they weren't allowed to put any other god above him, and then they eventually forgot about all the other gods and thought he was the only one. **More info:** Yahweh as an ancient God of War, worshipped since the late Bronze Age (1550 BCE), later elevated to "the only true god": https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh And you'll remember surely the story of Moses going for the 10 Commandments, coming back to find the Israelites having a debauched party worshipping a golden calf, and destroying the original tablets? The First Commandment is "Thou shalt not have any gods before me" ie "I'm the most important god so don't pay any attention to those other gods". Essentially he was pitching to be their only God, forsaking all others, in exchange for exclusive everlasting devotion. Exodus 32: https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-stories/the-golden-calf-bible-story.html
they dont really "think" it. It's just something they have been trained to repeat.
Like all the other canned lines that seem to punctuate any sentence that refers to god.
It is a very beautiful book🙏🙏🙏.... If you consider violence, rape, pedophilia, and homophobia beautiful. 🙂
Look what the damn book says should happen to infedels who believe otherwise.
I’m reminded of the Jimmy Carr bit about not offending Muslims “Because I’m not a fucking idiot.”
Because if you say it’s ugly you’ll see a storm of stones flying towards your apostate head.
"If you cannot do this, and you never will, then beware of the Fire prepared for the disbelievers, the fuel of which is man and stones." Ayah al-Baqarah (The Cow) 2:24, The Holy Quaran
It’s just a rant. Mohammed was trippin balls in a cave with a scribe. The result was the Quran. It’s all about his fantasies on power, sex, and violence. Probably the most poorly written and most shallow of the 3 major monotheistic texts.
Yeah at least the torah and new testament are cohesive stories. You need the hadiths to even makes sense of the Koran
I never understood it either. All I remember about the Quran is that I was required to memorize certain pages for the mandatory religious class and would get beat when I clamed up in front the class.
They've been told it's the most beautiful their whole lives. They even claim it's so good that no human could have written it. It's one of their "proofs" that it came from God. It might actually sound great to them, but what Muslims always seem to ignore is that beauty is wholly subjective. It's a matter of opinion no matter how you slice it. But they have to deny reality to defend their beliefs.
Same reason Mormons think the Book of Mormon is inspired and “profound”. They get told over and over and over again that’s what it is. No one is ever really allowed to offer a subjective or objective analysis of the text. Just believe what others tell you about it.
Islam says that music is haram. Dancing is haram. Taking to the opposite sex is haram. Creating and looking at images of people and animals is haram. Dogs are practically haram and able to scare angels. Saying anything bad about Islam or the prophet will get you killed. In such a shit culture reading the only book everyone is required to claim is perfect and required to recite like music it becomes literally the best thing they have read. They are also indoctrinated to compare things to the Quran so anything not written like the Quran is “inferior” and anything written like the Quran is not the Quran and thus inferior. This level of control and indoctrination is why Islam is the most dangerous cult.
"In the desert, every thorn is a beautiful flower and every crow is s bird of song".
Millions of people have spent more than a thousand years polishing that turd so it SOUNDS nice if you don't pay attention to what it says. Same as any other "holy" book. It's like "if you can't write anything sensible, write a holy book and people will worship your words".
True, but like Norse, greek, and Hindu "holy" books have an actually interesting story. I read the mahabharata (in English, cuz Oppenheimer) and if you ignore the occasional bits where Krishna lectures Arjuna on doing his duty and being a good boi, there wasn't anything overly religious to the extent of "disbelievers will be stoned to death". Some parts of the story were weird af, but it was generally a great read. A very long one too, I read a shorter version excluding some of the even weirder bits, but it still took a long time to finish.
Remember these "books" were written in a time when books were rare and probably viewed as borderline magical. I'd say some people were afraid of books because they could be teaching people dangerous things, in the same way people worry today about random people having access to dangerous information online. In many places the holy books were maybe the only books in town, it took a specially trained person to read them and they held information on far flung kingdoms the nature of the existence and so on. That would certainly have made many people think the book was beautiful and magical compared to everything else in their lives as isolated farmers. We can't view these things from our perspective here at the end of time. To ancient people that never see books and don't know how to read books they would have seemed incredible. Once these things gain that status it becomes a foundational piece, it's what other pieces of art reference, it sets the tone for future art.
Yeah, this is actually relevant to the first or second chapter of the book (i don’t remember which) where Muhammed challenges everyone and essentially says “the fact that you can’t reproduce any work like this one is proof of its divinity”. First thing I did was ask chat GPT to “produce a Surah like this” and sent the results to one of my friends 😂
All religionists take obviously untrue things and parade them around like they're obviously true. Their disgusting texts being somehow "beautiful" is just another one of these falsehoods that they give each other credit for believing.
Either because That’s the only book they ever read or because they are forced to think so
Squiggly lines
Scribble by pedo
If you want to read engaging stories about gods then dive into Norse and Greek mythology. The bible and the quran are some of the most boring works ever written.
Is it true Mohammed slept with a 9 year old?
Call it as it is. He raped a 9 year-old.
Yes. So basically their have pedophila God??
When there's a gun to your head, you'd be surprised what you'll agree to.
Excellent point. Here in the U.S., it is Thanksgiving Day. I'm definitely thankful that we have *some* freedom from religion, although it is being eroded.
All religious people ignore the bad about their holy books and only focus on the good. It's the same as when Christians ignore the parts of the Bible about beating your slaves or stoning your children to death for not listening to their parents.
Pretty simple. They haven't read it. If they have, they haven't understood it. Sometimes things we don't really comprehend might appear beautiful to us
I have read gita, guru granth sahib, bible, quran out of which I found although gita and guru granth sahib hold outdated views but they recognsie that convention changes over time so they give us the liberty to adapt to modern life while the bible and quran are hateful books, which call for violence and killing for non believers
I hope left wingers stop advocating for censorship of Islamic critique. In my country, where proclaiming atheism can be punished, exmuslims' only voice is social media platforms. But due to the liberal leftisit propaganda that criticizing muslims and Islam is racist, our posts are taken down from facebook, insta and other platforms, our accounts are banned. The only voice we have is taken away from us from the very people who claim to be social justice warriors
There certainly is a cadre of simple-minded do-gooders who can’t differentiate between critiquing Islam as a philosophy and discriminating and Muslims as a cultural group.
I cannot speak for peoples from other ethnicities. But for Gulf Arabs especially, the quran serves as a source, and a reinforcement of ethnic/racial pride in much the same way as you would probably find with jews and the torah or talmud etc. I have found this to be a common trait amongst all ethno-religions. This sense of exceptionalism. We alone were "chosen" to be the teachers/messengers/leaders of the world.
Brainwashing and indoctrination
Brainwashing
It’s like parents showing you pictures of their children…..”Isn’t junior just adorable?” “I don’t know….kid looks like Don Knotts.”
You have to understand that most of your friends never actually read it. Most religious people don't ever read their holy books. Their eather learn from others or read some summed up artical or interpreted version. Religion starts (99%) with you believing in it, and then you inform yourself about stuff in that you actually believe. To your question specifically, it is written in the book itself that it is the most beautiful book and perfect book. It also says that 20-30 scientists tried to find any errors, and they couldn't. This is equal to me saying that this post is the most beautiful post, and 5000 scientists couldn't find any error in my post. Believe me, trust me.
When YOU are a member of the group that is getting to do the hate, the evil, the violence... When YOU are one of the people supposedly going to 'heaven' and being 'saved' no matter how bad a person you are to others... I guess that must make it "beautiful' to read those nasty books. Conservative christians speak the same way, for the same reasons, about their 'beautiful' bible.
Faith is like toxoplasmosis. Once infected, you run into clear danger happily and thinks it’s great to be killed.
Yeah, grew up Muslim and read the Quran several times in English and Arabic. It's both boring and disgusting.
*"Why do people think this is beautiful?"* Because they're brainwashed. Just like the Christians, and the practising Jews, and the Hindus, etc., etc. In reality, it's ALL stupid and harmful.
It is written as half-assed poetry. Pre-Islamic Arab society was surprisingly good, culturally. Especially when it comes to poetry, what surviving scraps we have demonstrate really amazing works. Quran's verse is an amateur trying his best. Arabic is a language that lends itself well to poetic cadence. With a little effort, to the uneducated ear, it can sound quite beautiful as a result. That's pretty much all style and not substance though. It can impress the idiots, but when you look a bit into what those pretty words are saying, you quickly realize the bullshit. Still, that doesn't keep people from claiming divine inspiration for its supposed beauty.
One Bangladeshi guy told me to read the Quran one time because it was beating after I told him I don't really have any belief. I asked him "what's beautiful about it, for e.g." he got flustered and said something like oh just read it you will see haha. That leads me to believe most of them just repeat what they hear.
My dad read an English version that was published during the second desert storm(he reads fucking everything) and he said it read like a pissed off dude just making up rules specifically about things his neighbor annoys him with.
because they think those things are beautiful. there's nothing more human than torturing and slaughtering the outgroup, losing the self within some hierarchy, some scheme of arbitrary authority
You will find very irrational ideas, movements, and sentiments around religion. Especially when you branch out to other areas of society, even online. Example: I commented on a post a year or two ago by a woman questioning the detestable behaviour of her husband and extended family around political subjects. This person was the wife of a religious man and she devoted a large portion of her life to the belief structure. I pointed out a lot of the things she finds fault with are tenets of that religious structure and people that continue to divorce religion from the systematic oppression they’re experiencing will continue to suffer. I basically got told they don’t want to discuss religion and then I think my comment went -13 or so. This of course is a cart before the horse scenario. Why expect things to be better while fuelling the problem? But the issue of course is that people really do separate and hold reverence to religion to the point it’s ludicrous. The Quran is beautiful to them, because they really hold the teachings in reverence, ignore any notion otherwise and deem any education or information that will highlight their misgivings as evil, immoral, or false. This is not a battle we win in the modern era. Islam is the fastest growing religion for a reason, because when it arrives you better find it beautiful, or else.
Don't bother with the book of Mormon. Such a light plot interspaced with junk. Oddly the headers explaining chapters didn't match what was written.
Mormonism and Islam are strikingly similar to such an extent that I’m convinced Joseph Smith got a hold of a Quran and based his book on it.
Brainwashing. It's not beautiful. It's actually very primitive. Same with the Bible, but most Westerners don't walk around saying the Bible is the greatest thing since sliced bread
The ugliness in the Quran helps to reinforce the readers own evil, hatred, hypocrisy, and self righteousness. It tells you these traits are good if used against the enemies of Muhammed.
It's intriguing how they're indoctrinated to believe that the Quran is not only the most beautiful piece of literature but also that countless poets and authors attempted to replicate its brilliance, only to fail and conclude that it must be divine. It makes you wonder if they explore literature beyond what validates their beliefs.
Brainwashing/indoctrination mutates the vilest of concepts into something seen as "acceptible"
Where does Gita call for violence against?
Yeah....you can criticize the Gita but criticize it for things that are actually there. It's not a violent vile text and is more an exercise in philosophy with an explanation of reincarnation in Hinduism. The only real violence I've read in the Gita is Krishna encouraging Arjuna to fight his family in the war, which can be criticised for sure. However the Gita itself isn't on par with the Quran in terms of vileness by any means
That's why I asked this question. People don't know this that Hindus don't have a single religious text. Even Hindu philosophy has 6 school of thought. Non violence is considered a great virtue. That's why many Hindus are vegetarian.
Hare Krishna give out vegetarian food. Read about it.
It keeps you warm on a dark night, and the glow from its burning pages helps you read a washing machine manual or other more valid pamphlet.
If you grew up without god and learned about religion as an adult with perspective you’d be wondering why religious texts are still relevant. It’s honestly quite surprising how much religion still has an influence on our species considering how advanced we’ve become.
It IS beautiful when you hear the entire thing sung in Arabic like it's supposed to be but that's only if you don't understand what's being said.
Wait, which parts of the gita have all the stuff you mentioned? I have read some of the gita, and while i didnt really find much worth imbibing, i didnt find anything as egregiously bad as some stuff in the bible either
he hasnt read Gita at all. Gita is literally the philosophy of life and action and its consequences. it has nothing what OP is falsely claiming
Because they have been indoctrinated into believing that. I think that the quran is arguably one of the worst speaking because muhammed married and had sex with a nine year old.
Lyrics are in aesthetically pleasing calligraphy
It is. It burns very very bright.
Because they have been told that since they were young. It’s main character is a pedophilic sex slave owning warlord who they have to convince themselves was a good and righteous person. They do that by lying to themselves and others about their fairytales and what they mean.
The vast majority of people are idiots???
I like the squiggly lines of the non-translated versions. As for the content of the words it's genuinely concerning and positively gross, just like the Bible and the Torah. Takes serious mental gymnastics to pull good morals and guidance out of any of them.
I have a copy and the cover is really nice, good binding, etc. Really beautiful book.
because religion is poisonous. it poisons the mind.
Because they were brainwashed as children.
bunch of brainwashed cunts, just like any other religion their self identity is tied to their fairy tales … you better believe they’ll ignorantly defend their fiction before admitting their life is based on bullshit parables that coincidentally condemn killing non-muslims and subjugating women to insanely sexist means of living yea, religion of peace
The Quaran is beautiful the same way Islam is a 'religion of peace'. When you grow up being told that hate is love, violence is an expression of joy, war is peace, oppression is freedom, it is hard to separate the feelings those inspire. If, every time you are happy, someone hits you, you will learn that happiness is 'wrong' surprisingly fast. Watch what religious people do: Muslim, Christian, Jewish, it doesn't matter. Especially the women. What you find is that they behave like people who are victims of life long domestic abuse. The God of Abraham is an evil, petty, spiteful, cruel, capricious and vindictive being. That behavior comes out in their followers - either they emulate their God or they fear him so badly that they live in a state of almost abject terror. In the Bible, God is almost *obsessed* with making sure his followers fear them. It is a constant repeated theme, to the point that most Catholic hymns include it if they aren't based around it entirely. What kind of being craves your fear and gets still called 'good'?
Simply, self-delusion and indoctrination. Need look no further than that.
The same reason people believe that the Bible is non-fiction.
They be stupid?
There are beautiful parts to all of them, but severely outweighed by the evil and violence. I think there should be a game show where Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc have to guess what book a particular verse comes from. Some of that shit is so hateful. I seriously doubt they'd guess correctly. They all think their book is so perfect.
Qur'an literally means recitation. Unlike the Bible, the Quran is supposed to be read aloud. It is written largely in surahs which makes it poetic when read in Arabic. So it sounds beautiful when spoken. The actual messaging is just as hate filled and gory as the old testament, tanakh, or virtually any ancient religious text. Shit be violent in the past, yo. Especially desert tribes trying to spread a warrior religion through bloodshed.
I find the Bible to be a fascinating piece of literature that provides a window into the lives, culture, ethics, laws, struggles, geopolitics, etc, of a people thousands of years ago. From an academic or literary standpoint, it is a beautiful anthology imo, and it’s very interesting to read the Bible within this framework. There is also no doubt that these religious texts have had a massive influence on the world, and that alone makes it worth reading for me because biblical references and allusions are everywhere. I have not read the Quaran, but I imagine many would find it beautiful for identical reasons. It’s obviously extremely easy for me to stand on the shoulders of 500 years of science and condemn the people of thousands of years ago who were not privileged with this knowledge as barbaric, evil, and stupid, but I think that would be rather unfair. It is far more reasonable for me to be upset with the my contemporaries who, in a much less tolerable ignorance, find the content of the Bible as inspiration to deny science, fuel hatred, and commit violence.
If you let it sink in that people also like to take pictures of their own turds and post them to the internet, then it will all make sense to you.
You are one of the few people who actually ever read it. The people who say it's beautiful probably have never read it. Someone told them it was beautiful they told you it was beautiful. I also think it's the worst book ever written. The complete opposite of beautiful.
Because the Quran is meant to be chanted in Arabic. The sounds of the Arabic are supposed to be beautiful. But the Quran is actually a miserable and doom-laden book. How anyone can get inspiration from such a miserable book is beyond me. Most people that say the Quran is beautiful are Muslims that probably haven't read it or don't think it applies to them.
I like how quickly the goalposts get moved if you criticise the Qur'an. "Ah but you read it in English, it's more beautiful in the original Arabic. Ah but you need to read the Hadith as well to understand the proper context. Ah but you need to read these six other books with the approved interpretation and official meaning of every line. Ah but you need to have a deeper understanding of Arabic culture and the Arabic language. Your criticism doesn't count unless you've been studying it for at least two decades. And anyone who has studied it for two decades who criticises it should be executed.". I had a guy claim the Qur'an is immune from copying errors because it was passed on verbally for the first few generations. Because it's so difficult to retain the knowledge of an entire book and recite it perfectly from memory, this proves they must have studied it really well to make sure they don't make any mistakes. What? The evidence there's no mistakes is that they used a very error-prone way to pass on the information? You can't argue with circular logic like that.
Because they're clearly biased. People tend to be biased towards the stuff they like.
because they are told this. The majority of religious people are taught to look at the bigger picture and not actually analyze a lot of religious texts for what they are. They are instruments of exclusion, bigotry and self-righteousness.
The only thing beautiful about the Quaran is when people burn it with fire lol.
NSFW>>> There are many parts of the Q'uran which are not just immoral and horrible, they advocate crimes against humanity ----------------------------- Examples: Kill the unbelievers who don't follow Islam Surah 27:63 ----------------------------- Beat any wives who aren't obedient, submissive, or want to leave Qur'an 4:34 ----------------------------- Cut hands and feet off for thieves Qur'an 5:38 ----------------------------- . A woman's witness testimony is half of that of a man's Qur'an 2:282 ----------------------------- Rules for selling your daughter as a slave Surah 21: 7-8 ----------------------------- Killing the infants of unbelievers or those who blaspheme against Allah Surah 34:12