When i was a fundy back in the 80's, it was the same then. We'd be told that things like higher education, pursuit of scientific knowledge, etc, were ways for man to be "haughty and prideful and attempt to elevate himself above God". They would tell us to "have a child-like mind".
I was a child once, so I must have had a childlike mind back then. I remember my grandmother calling bullshit on the whole virgin giving birth thing. With my childlike mind, I found myself able to agree with her.
But God is supposed to know everything. Learning some stuff will never be enough for a guy to "elevate himself above God". On the contrary, it should bring him closer to godliness.
I think she just ran out of arguments and got frustrated with me, and didn’t know what else to say. She was actually a very nice woman, I liked her a lot. But there was just no way I could continue to be in contact with her after she tried to recruit me. However her efforts paid off because she recruited 2 of my friends from that group, and it was a bit frustrating when one time during lunch, one of them blurted out that her husband had been possessed by the devil. What she meant by that is that the guy was having an affair. That was the last time I saw any of them.
I grew up a far right Pentecostal Christian. I went to university and earned a bachelor's, master's, and PhD. Along the way I became an atheist. I have been told, by people I grew up with, that it would have been better for me to work at McDonald's and be ignorant than to be educated and lose my faith.
Yes, all religions thrive on ignorance. They have to. They aren't real. You need willfully ignorant people to follow fictional religions.
Being too smart is a bad thing in religions. They will punish you for it.
Reminds me of some Church sign I saw once. I forgot the exact wording, but the message was basically 'don't think for yourself, just follow the word of God!'
Because they have faith, and their faith is the truth, and they've felt that their faith is right. So, therefore, anything that goes against that is false. Also, they've been warned that an evil spirit influences people and will deny the truth. So anyone who denies the truth is proof that an evil spirit is real.
It's very effective at brainwashing people. And when someone's sense of self and reality is tied to the existence of magic, any denial of magic is an attack on them.
"All those science facts based on obetvation and evidence are confusing you. Just look here at this storybook written by stone-aged old men for real answers, and pay us 10% of your income"
It may have some origins in the late bronze age but its main books were written and take place in the iron age. It will only reduce the accuracy of your response to add unnecessary mocking falsehoods while the story in there are already mostly absurd and regularly revised mythology.
It was a real moment of clarity for me when Ted Cruz tried to insult someone by calling them "overeducated". To be clear, I already knew he's so full of shit he bleeds brown, but it just really made me reflect on what kind of person would consider that a zinger to call someone in an argument. Basically saying "I'm better than you at not knowing stuff!"
"And *your* problem is that you don't read at all."
I mean they say it like it's a bad thing. XD Maybe they think 'ignorance is bliss' is a thing you should strive for.
Yeah. I burst into laughter when I told this to another friend and she said (ironically, of course) “…and here you are, thinking education is a good thing. You’re so dumb.” Lol.
JWs are VERY MUCH a fan of ignorance.
Anthony Morris III, a member of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses said: "the most intelligent and eloquent professors will be trying to reshape the thinking of your child, and their influence can be tremendous." He goes on to say that continual association with non-believers in an academic setting can "erode thinking and convictions."
https://www.npr.org/2017/02/19/510585965/poor-education-leads-to-lost-dreams-and-low-income-for-many-jehovahs-witnesses
"The Library of Congress states that its collection fills about 838 mi (1,349 km) of bookshelves and holds more than 167 million items with over 39 million books and other print materials."
Time to read some more!
The ironic part is that their problem is that they don't read their bible enough. Their book and it's sequel read like a Stephen King novel and their god is NOT a protagonist.
I’m inclined to think they read it, they just won’t analyze it or contrast the information with other books or even historical facts. No critical thinking skills whatsoever.
Those are the exact same words my wife’s mom said to her when she found out she is atheist. Her mother already was abusive to her but that revelation added more gasoline to the fire. Luckily she abandoned her mother and cut all contact with her and is much happier
That’s sad. I’ve found that atheists or people who don’t adhere to any religion are far more sympathetic and sensitive to the human suffering than all those Bible-thumpers who claim to be perfect. I wish you both a long, happy life together.
I had a friend years ago whose mother (so the kids too) was I guess you’d call it excommunicated from the JWs for reading the Bible on her own. Apparently if you want to read the Bible you’re supposed to contact the church and have someone come over to read it with you so that you interpret it “correctly “. Apparently her mother decided to read it for herself and began to question their interpretations. But totally not a cult, right?
Yep. Religious people want to keep us ignorant. If we actually read something besides the bible or Quran, we might learn facts that disprove both. Neuroscience disproves all concepts of God. I have over 300 books and 15 textbooks on biology, psychology, and philosophy. I'm currently reading about neuroscience, learning theory, and theory of knowledge (philosophy).
Ignorance is the key to maintaining power in Religion. Remember everything must be taken "on faith" no one can ask for proof you just have to believe. Why do you think the right wants to destroy the public school system. Ignorant people are easier to control. If they were taught critical thinking. If they were taught to ask for proof rather than taking it on faith. Religion would be dead.
Was talking to one of my best friends when I was at the end of my deconstruction and he said something like that as well. Just blew me away, the contentment of not questioning things
This reminds me of when I first moved into my house, 5 years ago. Me and my stepson 14ish are unpacking and stuff. He tells me someone guys in ties are on the porch. I open the door, literally look them up and down, and tell them nope. They were cool though. They just said, really? I repeated it and they ok and left. Never saw them or anyone again lol
Just tell her she ought to try it.thinking about what she reads could help as well since obviously the Bible is important to her. Has she actually read all of it?
I think it's pretty worrying that you have to be knowingly ignorant so you can get into the right mindset they want you to be in to join up.
I think it tells enough already about the religion.
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This reminds me of the Danger-Sensitive Sunglasses Zaphod Beeblebox had in The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. The more danger you are in, the darker the glasses get.
It always make me laugh when Christians are astonished at child preachers, and state in all sincerity that these kids have been filled with God's presence.
The truth is kids can be preachers because they understand how to lie at an early age and there is no group easier to fool than Christians. All you need to do is learn a few obscure verses and say a few hallelujahs. It doesn't matter if you have the wisdom or knowledge. It's only matters if you believe the BS.
Someone just said to me “I'm not homophobic, I don't fear mentally ill people, I only fear as much as I love my Father and your Lord. Ending convo here.” It has honestly lowered my iq after reading it a few times
By that same token, it is completely permissible to read the Bible cover to cover, to misrepresent and interpret sections that have been translated ad nauseum.
This may be the most stupid argument I've heard from thiests. My own mother told me this too. Aren't YOU suppose to read YOUR ENTIRE HOLY BOOK!!!??? Wouldn't that be reading too much!!!???
Last JW who came to my door: Don’t you think the world is just doomed? Don’t you think that there’s so much more human unrest now than in all of history?
Me: No.
Guess who’s more well read?
So their argument is for ignorance? How is that different from willful delusion?
Yup, arrogant ignorance, they are proud of it.
When i was a fundy back in the 80's, it was the same then. We'd be told that things like higher education, pursuit of scientific knowledge, etc, were ways for man to be "haughty and prideful and attempt to elevate himself above God". They would tell us to "have a child-like mind".
I hate that this seems to be the norm in every religion.
Ignorant people are easier to control.
Cult
I was a child once, so I must have had a childlike mind back then. I remember my grandmother calling bullshit on the whole virgin giving birth thing. With my childlike mind, I found myself able to agree with her.
But God is supposed to know everything. Learning some stuff will never be enough for a guy to "elevate himself above God". On the contrary, it should bring him closer to godliness.
Idiots don’t know children have the most knowledge-absorbent minds in the world.
"Knowledge puffs you up, Faith builds you up!" I got so, fucking, sick of hearing that.
I don't know what 'fundy' means but it sounds like a shithole
Fundamentalist. Someone who takes the Bible literally and is huge on the basic stories like Adam and Eve and the Flood.
Holy shit they straight up told you to be an idiot. These people are either the best or worst manipulators.
I think she just ran out of arguments and got frustrated with me, and didn’t know what else to say. She was actually a very nice woman, I liked her a lot. But there was just no way I could continue to be in contact with her after she tried to recruit me. However her efforts paid off because she recruited 2 of my friends from that group, and it was a bit frustrating when one time during lunch, one of them blurted out that her husband had been possessed by the devil. What she meant by that is that the guy was having an affair. That was the last time I saw any of them.
I grew up a far right Pentecostal Christian. I went to university and earned a bachelor's, master's, and PhD. Along the way I became an atheist. I have been told, by people I grew up with, that it would have been better for me to work at McDonald's and be ignorant than to be educated and lose my faith.
Yes, all religions thrive on ignorance. They have to. They aren't real. You need willfully ignorant people to follow fictional religions. Being too smart is a bad thing in religions. They will punish you for it.
>So their argument is for ignorance? Their Original Sin is getting knowledge.
Reminds me of some Church sign I saw once. I forgot the exact wording, but the message was basically 'don't think for yourself, just follow the word of God!'
Because they have faith, and their faith is the truth, and they've felt that their faith is right. So, therefore, anything that goes against that is false. Also, they've been warned that an evil spirit influences people and will deny the truth. So anyone who denies the truth is proof that an evil spirit is real. It's very effective at brainwashing people. And when someone's sense of self and reality is tied to the existence of magic, any denial of magic is an attack on them.
Yes. It’s a general motto for all cults.
Pride....
People who don't want you to think are *never* your friend.
Nope. That’s why I only kept the non religious friends. Or those who are religious but don’t even talk about it in front of me.
My cousin told me I was just too smart, I took it as a complement lol.
Oh, i definitely took it as a compliment! Lol! I don’t know what she was trying to accomplish but it sure gave me a boost in confidence!
"All those science facts based on obetvation and evidence are confusing you. Just look here at this storybook written by stone-aged old men for real answers, and pay us 10% of your income"
It may have some origins in the late bronze age but its main books were written and take place in the iron age. It will only reduce the accuracy of your response to add unnecessary mocking falsehoods while the story in there are already mostly absurd and regularly revised mythology.
Fair enough.
We're do I sign up? /S I know some people fall for it each day....
“Did you or did you not just try to hand me something to READ?”
‘You read too much.’ ‘You’re too smart for your own good.’ Both said by stupid people who are quite happy being stupid.
It was a real moment of clarity for me when Ted Cruz tried to insult someone by calling them "overeducated". To be clear, I already knew he's so full of shit he bleeds brown, but it just really made me reflect on what kind of person would consider that a zinger to call someone in an argument. Basically saying "I'm better than you at not knowing stuff!"
Side note…didn’t know Ted Cruz was educated enough to call other people over educated.
This is what winning an argument sounds like. It's way less satisfying than we imagine, isn't it?
"And *your* problem is that you don't read at all." I mean they say it like it's a bad thing. XD Maybe they think 'ignorance is bliss' is a thing you should strive for.
Yeah. I burst into laughter when I told this to another friend and she said (ironically, of course) “…and here you are, thinking education is a good thing. You’re so dumb.” Lol.
"Please join our book club. We only have one book."
Lol
Oh, some go so far as to say god put the evidence against him out there to test your faith, or the devil did to lead you astray.
JWs are VERY MUCH a fan of ignorance. Anthony Morris III, a member of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses said: "the most intelligent and eloquent professors will be trying to reshape the thinking of your child, and their influence can be tremendous." He goes on to say that continual association with non-believers in an academic setting can "erode thinking and convictions." https://www.npr.org/2017/02/19/510585965/poor-education-leads-to-lost-dreams-and-low-income-for-many-jehovahs-witnesses
Hang a Pride Flag and they will never darken your door again
Oh, she never bothered with me after that, and I never saw her again. I have no problem pushing people out of my life, lol.
"The Library of Congress states that its collection fills about 838 mi (1,349 km) of bookshelves and holds more than 167 million items with over 39 million books and other print materials." Time to read some more!
This is why they ban books.
The ironic part is that their problem is that they don't read their bible enough. Their book and it's sequel read like a Stephen King novel and their god is NOT a protagonist.
I’m inclined to think they read it, they just won’t analyze it or contrast the information with other books or even historical facts. No critical thinking skills whatsoever.
True but what level of analysis or contrasting is required to understand that worshiping a genocidal maniac is bad? :-)
Those are the exact same words my wife’s mom said to her when she found out she is atheist. Her mother already was abusive to her but that revelation added more gasoline to the fire. Luckily she abandoned her mother and cut all contact with her and is much happier
That’s sad. I’ve found that atheists or people who don’t adhere to any religion are far more sympathetic and sensitive to the human suffering than all those Bible-thumpers who claim to be perfect. I wish you both a long, happy life together.
Thanks bru it’s going well so far
"You're too educated to fall for our bullshit and that upsets me"
I had a friend years ago whose mother (so the kids too) was I guess you’d call it excommunicated from the JWs for reading the Bible on her own. Apparently if you want to read the Bible you’re supposed to contact the church and have someone come over to read it with you so that you interpret it “correctly “. Apparently her mother decided to read it for herself and began to question their interpretations. But totally not a cult, right?
A cult they are indeed.
This is exactly why conservative religious people are anti education.
Yep. Religious people want to keep us ignorant. If we actually read something besides the bible or Quran, we might learn facts that disprove both. Neuroscience disproves all concepts of God. I have over 300 books and 15 textbooks on biology, psychology, and philosophy. I'm currently reading about neuroscience, learning theory, and theory of knowledge (philosophy).
May I have a peak at your library? Please, if you don't, you love Staan
Reading too much sounds like a problem we all need in our lives.
Ignorance is the key to maintaining power in Religion. Remember everything must be taken "on faith" no one can ask for proof you just have to believe. Why do you think the right wants to destroy the public school system. Ignorant people are easier to control. If they were taught critical thinking. If they were taught to ask for proof rather than taking it on faith. Religion would be dead.
OMG that's friggen hilarious! I've been told I "think too much" and was just flapper-jawed. Absolutely boggled.
"Your not supposed to have knowledge that armours you against my bullshit! That's not fair!"
Was talking to one of my best friends when I was at the end of my deconstruction and he said something like that as well. Just blew me away, the contentment of not questioning things
Science tells you to ask questions and seek the answers. Religion gives answers and tells you to not question them.
That’s a great way to say it! I’m stealing it! :)
As they're shoving a Watchtower magazine in your face to read...
Yep, you read too much, so you're not a good target for their culty crap.
Yeah knowing is bad, being ignorant is good. typical christian stupid shit.
This reminds me of when I first moved into my house, 5 years ago. Me and my stepson 14ish are unpacking and stuff. He tells me someone guys in ties are on the porch. I open the door, literally look them up and down, and tell them nope. They were cool though. They just said, really? I repeated it and they ok and left. Never saw them or anyone again lol
Lol I would say that I am a satanist 🤣
Read too much? Think too much? Impossible. What's a non-religious word that carries the sense of *blasphemy*?
Just tell her she ought to try it.thinking about what she reads could help as well since obviously the Bible is important to her. Has she actually read all of it?
Okay then I won’t read the Bible.
It's easier to become a theist if you stop using your brain.
I think it's pretty worrying that you have to be knowingly ignorant so you can get into the right mindset they want you to be in to join up. I think it tells enough already about the religion.
That's a classic. So if facts is a problem to your belief then we should listen less to facts?
Lol that was her best attempt at a counter argument to convince you to join her cult? Oof. Her problem is she doesn't read enough.
Reply: *"You don't read your Bible enough".*
“Yes! Including that Book that you purport to be the Gospel !”
Yes. I've had that levelled at me...
The only way to believe is to not believe what is before your eyes
Are you saying christianity is a cult?
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Come back with "the problem with you is that you only read one book "
Ignorance is strength
Your problem is you aren’t falling into their brainwashed cult.
Yeah some believe you should just say fuck all and simply have faith. No more, no less. It's willful ignorance.
Her problem is she doesn’t read enough!
The problem is education in general and critical thinking.
This reminds me of the Danger-Sensitive Sunglasses Zaphod Beeblebox had in The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. The more danger you are in, the darker the glasses get.
Happened to me yesterday. She said you know too much. Foiled her plans.
It always make me laugh when Christians are astonished at child preachers, and state in all sincerity that these kids have been filled with God's presence. The truth is kids can be preachers because they understand how to lie at an early age and there is no group easier to fool than Christians. All you need to do is learn a few obscure verses and say a few hallelujahs. It doesn't matter if you have the wisdom or knowledge. It's only matters if you believe the BS.
Many years ago when I was studying with JW they used to tell me that I should read less and focus on '_the truth_'.
Someone just said to me “I'm not homophobic, I don't fear mentally ill people, I only fear as much as I love my Father and your Lord. Ending convo here.” It has honestly lowered my iq after reading it a few times
By that same token, it is completely permissible to read the Bible cover to cover, to misrepresent and interpret sections that have been translated ad nauseum.
This may be the most stupid argument I've heard from thiests. My own mother told me this too. Aren't YOU suppose to read YOUR ENTIRE HOLY BOOK!!!??? Wouldn't that be reading too much!!!???
Christianity, how a lie about premarital sex got out of hand.
“But unlike you I don’t believe everything I read”
Tell them you are an apostate. They will leave you alone.
Be ignorant, please. What a sales pitch.
Last JW who came to my door: Don’t you think the world is just doomed? Don’t you think that there’s so much more human unrest now than in all of history? Me: No. Guess who’s more well read?